I mean, people can watch whatever they want but I’ve stopped watching this genre altogether (quite a while ago actually). Maybe I’ll check back in when someone does something innovative with the...
I mean, people can watch whatever they want but I’ve stopped watching this genre altogether (quite a while ago actually). Maybe I’ll check back in when someone does something innovative with the genre again but at this point it feels like the fast food of movies. They crank them out full of addictive ingredients in order to temporarily sate an audiences hunger but ultimately they’re telling the same rehashed stories over and over with little to no soul.
If you like to eat fast food, cool, you do you but I prefer home cooked meals that somebody gives a shit about when they’re making them.
James Gunn's The Suicide Squad and Guardians movies have been highlights for me, and I'm pretty excited to see him get a shot at running DC. He's clearly a huge fan and passionate about the work,...
James Gunn's The Suicide Squad and Guardians movies have been highlights for me, and I'm pretty excited to see him get a shot at running DC.
He's clearly a huge fan and passionate about the work, and the man has a really impressive ability to make me feel an emotional connection with characters in pulpy genre stories.
One thing that stood out for me in GOTG 3, is that Gunn allowed the sad/ disturbing moments to actually play out and didn't follow the now standard Marvel playbook of immediately disrupting these...
One thing that stood out for me in GOTG 3, is that Gunn allowed the sad/ disturbing moments to actually play out and didn't follow the now standard Marvel playbook of immediately disrupting these moments with humor.
Yes there were funny moments in the film but also some really hard hitting stuff for a Marvel film. It is that element of Gunn's approach to GOTG 3 that gives me quite a bit of confidence in him helming a Superman film.
I even noticed him flipping it on more than one occasion in that movie - they'd land a joke, but instead of giving the audience time to laugh, turn around and gut-punch the audience with something...
I even noticed him flipping it on more than one occasion in that movie - they'd land a joke, but instead of giving the audience time to laugh, turn around and gut-punch the audience with something sad. It was such an on-the-nose reversal of the most common complaint about the Marvel formula that it had to be intentional.
Good point Arlen! Comics have been a lifelong hobby/ interest for me and I am definitely pretty burnt out by most Marvel and DC product these days. I went into GOTG 3 with really low expectations....
Good point Arlen!
Comics have been a lifelong hobby/ interest for me and I am definitely pretty burnt out by most Marvel and DC product these days. I went into GOTG 3 with really low expectations. So it really impressed me. I did enjoy Gunn's Suicide Squad and Peacemaker.
Wasn't too keen on GOTG 2, (really didn't like Ego revealed to be the cause of Peter's Mom's cancer. I thought her dying of cancer really grounded/ humanized that first film and was one of the things that made it special.)
Anyway, I'm willing to give Gunn a lot of leeway mostly because of all those moments he let play out in GOTG 3.
I'm excited to see what he does with DC moving forward. Maybe it will be DC's moment to dominate superhero fare? We shall see. But post Endgame I have just been so disengaged from almost everything Marvel has put out. I really feel that all of the Disney+ tv shows diluted the brand.
I also felt like most of the jokes weren’t played off as jokes in-universe, they were often quite serious, jokes in other Marvel movies almost feels like satire at this point.
I also felt like most of the jokes weren’t played off as jokes in-universe, they were often quite serious, jokes in other Marvel movies almost feels like satire at this point.
Don't sleep on The Batman, Joker, and the Spider-Verse series! As someone jaded by MCU Phase 4-5 movies and who has not seen a single DCEU movie in theatre (and not even all of them streamed), I...
Don't sleep on The Batman, Joker, and the Spider-Verse series! As someone jaded by MCU Phase 4-5 movies and who has not seen a single DCEU movie in theatre (and not even all of them streamed), I feel you! But these are gems, I guess because they're in their own universes, free to passionately do what they want instead of just chasing trends.
As mentioned in other comments, James Gunn's direction is one of only two things that's made any of the past several years of superhero schlock interesting. The other, so far unmentioned in...
As mentioned in other comments, James Gunn's direction is one of only two things that's made any of the past several years of superhero schlock interesting.
The other, so far unmentioned in response to you--and directly better and more novel than Gunn's cape oeuvre as a whole, though Gunn certainly has his moments--is the Spider-Verse films, and they require no knowledge whatsoever of any of the MCU or DC films to enjoy. Seriously, they're so damn good.
It's definitely a quality thing. GOTG 3 was an incredible movie; I didn't even like 2, and it blew me out of the water. The animated Spiderman movies have been phenomenal. People aren't tired of...
It's definitely a quality thing. GOTG 3 was an incredible movie; I didn't even like 2, and it blew me out of the water. The animated Spiderman movies have been phenomenal. People aren't tired of "superhero movies", they're tired of movies made with no creative vision above and beyond "superhero movie."
I don't watch any of the DC stuff but I would have actually seen this one if Ezra Miller wasn't such a monster. Even if I wasn't paying for it since I have AMC Stubs, I still couldn't support them...
I don't watch any of the DC stuff but I would have actually seen this one if Ezra Miller wasn't such a monster. Even if I wasn't paying for it since I have AMC Stubs, I still couldn't support him them in anyway by contributing to the success of the movie. I'd rather watch the new Spiderverse movie or Past Lives again instead.
Maybe in this case they should have used "Ezra Miller" instead of "them" so that it's clear "them" doesn't refer to the studio or Ezra Miller and the studio.
Maybe in this case they should have used "Ezra Miller" instead of "them" so that it's clear "them" doesn't refer to the studio or Ezra Miller and the studio.
I need to see Past Lives. Shoutout A24, Beau Is Afraid is another movie I enjoyed seeing in theatres. Such a fun nightmare, and I enjoyed almost every second of it.
I need to see Past Lives. Shoutout A24, Beau Is Afraid is another movie I enjoyed seeing in theatres. Such a fun nightmare, and I enjoyed almost every second of it.
You can tell when the 'suits' are involved... they do market research and force the movie to have: "Our research says they want down to earth, out of this world story" "It needs a shark" "X was...
You can tell when the 'suits' are involved... they do market research and force the movie to have:
"Our research says they want down to earth, out of this world story"
"It needs a shark"
"X was popular and it had a blimp chase, so do that too"
That's not against the premise from the article. That being said, this is like some chatGPT level analysis.
That's not against the premise
It’s possible, but with a major caveat, a qualification that lovers of cinema should actually embrace. And that is: Good comic-book movies, though they don’t happen every day, will still bring out audiences and excite them. One need look no further than to the success of “Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse,” a movie innovative enough, as image poetry and as storytelling, to restore one’s faith in the human idiosyncrasy of the comic-book genre. The film’s box-office performance is a striking contrast to that of the movies I mentioned above. “The Batman” was a major movie that majorly connected, and while I’m no big fan of “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3,” there’s no question that it’s a success. I would argue that the affection for the “Guardians” series is so intense that that concluding chapter will go down as one of the last of the old-school comic-book-film triumphs.
from the article. That being said, this is like some chatGPT level analysis.
isn't it true for all? crappy everything, even in the digital world, has become an epidemic. People used to be proud of quality, so quality was given. Now, some people still seek quality but more...
isn't it true for all? crappy everything, even in the digital world, has become an epidemic.
People used to be proud of quality, so quality was given. Now, some people still seek quality but more people want a quick fix, that's why everything is built quickly and crappy with insane margins for maximum profit.
I mean, it is for me, but I was never into superhero movies to begin with (or action movies in general). I miss comedies. I keep hoping this fad of superhero movies and reboots will die, so we can...
I mean, it is for me, but I was never into superhero movies to begin with (or action movies in general).
I miss comedies. I keep hoping this fad of superhero movies and reboots will die, so we can at least get one good comedy per year.
Honestly, I'm not really sure what they thought would happen with The Flash. Ezra Miller has been insane for years, and after canning Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck, and WW84 doing poorly, there's...
Honestly, I'm not really sure what they thought would happen with The Flash. Ezra Miller has been insane for years, and after canning Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck, and WW84 doing poorly, there's literally no future for this DCCU so releasing this movie was literally pointless outside of DC attempting to make back some of the money they've lost.
I've said it for years, but I'll say it here too, DC needs to just accept the fact that their universe is better animated and try releasing some animated movies in theatres. They will do SO much better, especially if they can give some of their movies/characters the R rating they need.
Marvel movies are just stale and boring, after how bad The Eternals was, my interest in Marvel was shot.
OH man, can you imagine a well-drawn, well-voiced R-rated DC animated movie?! Like Mask of the Phantasm but even better?! DC would finally find some footing.
OH man, can you imagine a well-drawn, well-voiced R-rated DC animated movie?! Like Mask of the Phantasm but even better?!
DC would finally find some footing.
One can hope. Just watched The Flash this morning and was wishing the whole time that I was watching Flashpoint Paradox instead. The budget really hampered Paradox's adaptation, but I think it...
One can hope. Just watched The Flash this morning and was wishing the whole time that I was watching Flashpoint Paradox instead. The budget really hampered Paradox's adaptation, but I think it helps the case of what a high budget DCAU movie could do. Hopefully, Gunn sees that with the Spider-Verse movies doing so well.
Eternals had potential, but that move had like three plots going on at the same time and none of them were really developed. It honestly felt like they had plots set out for a few movies and...
Eternals had potential, but that move had like three plots going on at the same time and none of them were really developed. It honestly felt like they had plots set out for a few movies and marvel said "do one movie and use it all or don't make anything." So they pushed out what we got.
I thought it was better than most DC movies. I don’t really understand how DC keeps doing the same thing and the producers and audiences keep getting hyped for it like Charlie Brown lining up for...
I thought it was better than most DC movies. I don’t really understand how DC keeps doing the same thing and the producers and audiences keep getting hyped for it like Charlie Brown lining up for a football.
The sparkle and wow factor that came with the OG Iron Man has faded. The bar has been set high to me early in the Marvel universe. I haven't been to the theater since Dr Strange and the...
The sparkle and wow factor that came with the OG Iron Man has faded. The bar has been set high to me early in the Marvel universe. I haven't been to the theater since Dr Strange and the Multiverse. Writing and lackluster acting combined with Disney+ Series constantly dropping have just soured me for a bit.
On Reddit, this comment would be downvoted and never seen after the fourth snarky disagree downvote. So we'll try out Tildes and see if substance can work. About ten or fifteen years ago, "the...
On Reddit, this comment would be downvoted and never seen after the fourth snarky disagree downvote. So we'll try out Tildes and see if substance can work.
About ten or fifteen years ago, "the internet" discovered story theory. The basic stories, like "coming of age" or "hero's journey" or "happily ever after." And proceeded to dub them all unoriginal, and then shit on any story that they didn't like where they could put their finger on which chapter heading out of story theory the movie or story fit.
When someone likes a movie, they don't shit on it. Further, they don't care that they know it's a revenge story, or a buddy story, a forgiveness story. They don't care because they're busy having fun.
As one example, John Wick is a barebones revenge story. Period, done, that's what it is. That's all it is. But because it's popular, it's considered 'original.' I like John Wick. A lot. My point is just because I know the core story, and have seen it before, and will (gladly) see it again, doesn't change that I do like it, or that I should start disliking it. Originality comes from execution, not idea. John Wick put the stunts front and center, made an excellent choice of actor to breathe life into the role, and just works. But when you drill into it, the same as you can drill into any movie to the core level, it's not "original." Core stories, the basic themes, repeat for a reason; people like them.
When someone isn't having fun with a movie, when they've decided they hate the movie, they look for "reasons" to "prove" to others why it's worth that hate. Because on Social Media, it's all about bandwagons.
All of which is to say, it's really easy to just jump on a bandwagon. In the mid 2010s, Marvel was on the rise. Breaking box office records. Bringing 'new' stories out, so it was easy to be on that bandwagon. Iron Man is a basic story, Thor is a basic story, The Avengers is a basic story. How those stories were told made them fun and interesting to a lot of folks. Plus the industry observers were blown away by the ticket sales, so they helped goad the positivity.
But now Marvel's in a building phase, and the DCU is a directionless dumpster fire (until Gunn fixes it), making it easy to just dunk on them. So the current Social Media bandwagon is to just chatter about "superhero fatigue."
Plus, of course, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Some folks don't like romance stories. Or action stories. Or superhero stories. The ones who mostly didn't like superhero stories are totally in favor of the "superhero fatigue" bandwagon. They combine with the bandwagoneers and keep harping about the coming fall of superheroes.
There are a lot of people on Social Media, and on wanna-be 'industry' websites, who need something to say. Right now, one of those lazy topics is 'superhero fatigue.' They pop it up, collect some "yeah" from the bandwagoneeers and pre-existing anti-hero people, and some "hey wait" from the people who do like superheroes, and collect the impressions from their post/tweet/video/whatever.
I don't like the Fast and Furious movies. The first one I do, a lot; the next two are pretty decent in my opinion. They they got odd. Then they got weird. You know what? I don't go. I don't even look for them on the high seas anymore. But a lot of other people do go, clearly. They must like them. Okay, cool. Enjoy cars in space I guess. But what I don't do is make them feel like they're "wrong" just because they like the shenanigans and hijinks in the F&F universe.
A whole lot of people who grew up on comics have grown up. Some of them reached decision making chairs behind desks that can approve big budget movies and bring these characters to life. I grew up loving comics. Now I get to see heroes living and breathing on the big screen in glorious full production projects; not stuffed into bad body paint and horrible spandex on a twelve dollar sound stage.
If one doesn't like superhero films, that's cool. But shitting on the genre kind of isn't. It really never is, and no one likes it, when something they enjoy is made out to be bad by others who aren't honest enough to admit the reason they're doing it is just to be divisive and selfish.
Just want to second this, that's a pretty good writeup. Media literacy feels like it's at an all-time low with these blockbusters. You bring up a good point, people decide whether or not they like...
Just want to second this, that's a pretty good writeup. Media literacy feels like it's at an all-time low with these blockbusters. You bring up a good point, people decide whether or not they like a movie, and then try to convey their opinion as "objective" by trying to find evidence to support their position by nitpicking plot contrivances, or visual effects, or some cherry-picked dialogue.
My favorite reviewers try to evaluate a work based on how accurately it conveys its message, and how much it "got what it was going for". Not everything was made for me personally, and I respect that. I hate horror movies generally, but I don't say a horror movie was bad because I was too stressed to enjoy it.
Ultimately, everything is Shakespeare, you're going to come across the same ideas behind different stories. A film does not become irredeemable because you thought a certain line was cringy or didn't understand the actions of a side character. I wish people were more interested in talking about what a film or game or tv show is rather than what it's not. I don't know if "youtube critics" have polluted the conversation space or if the explosion of consumers hand-in-hand with the ease of digital opinion sharing has shifted the landscape, but it bothers me.
I want to focus on one part of your argument: I go absolutely batshit when people pull this one out. There are a lot of plot holes in a lot of things, but they are never an issue for me if they...
I want to focus on one part of your argument:
nitpicking plot contrivances
I go absolutely batshit when people pull this one out. There are a lot of plot holes in a lot of things, but they are never an issue for me if they don't impede the story being told. I'm reminded of how some of my coworkers responded to how bad A Quiet Place was because of the "waterfall" scene blowing holes in the film. Holy jesus, it's there for character development. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, the scene holds it together by shaping the father character's doubts.
I agree. The key to marvel has always been above average writing for action movies. Theyre no longer hitting that bar. Same thing with Netflix marvel adaptations. Good writing is good writing....
I agree. The key to marvel has always been above average writing for action movies. Theyre no longer hitting that bar. Same thing with Netflix marvel adaptations.
Good writing is good writing. Pronoun game and “We can’t talk now” Is lazy. Sales reflect that
Pronoun game is when you depict characters having a conversation, but you never get what the subject of it is because they always use pronouns instead. The writer than smirks thinking “this...
Pronoun game is when you depict characters having a conversation, but you never get what the subject of it is because they always use pronouns instead. The writer than smirks thinking “this totally natural dialogue will build the mystery for the audience!”
I've never heard that term before, but that's also a technique that pops up in written prose here and there. It's a very forced attempt at building suspense that rarely delivers a worthwhile payoff.
I've never heard that term before, but that's also a technique that pops up in written prose here and there. It's a very forced attempt at building suspense that rarely delivers a worthwhile payoff.
Yeah this is what i was referring to. It's a pretty common trope. "He's Coming!" "who" "i don't have time to tell you"...repeat. This is ALL OVER the recent antman to the point of not just being...
Yeah this is what i was referring to. It's a pretty common trope. "He's Coming!" "who" "i don't have time to tell you"...repeat.
This is ALL OVER the recent antman to the point of not just being lazy writing, but straight up absurd.
Actually quite interested in what Eji meant because while identity politics and heartless progressive shit popping up in Hollywood israel, I think this is slightly misdirected. The problem is...
Actually quite interested in what Eji meant because while identity politics and heartless progressive shit popping up in Hollywood israel, I think this is slightly misdirected.
The problem is studios shitting on leftist politics by greenlighting regurgitated IP contracted to industry hacks, mass media dickriding these properties, and privileged moviegoers gawking at such faux representation when it's fast food. Why? Leftism is popular, and easy to lean into. The youth and minorities are an important demographic, I would think.
It sells. People seem to forget that regardless of what this privileged commie (me) tells you, business runs on money. No money, no success. You don't need to be Tucker Carlson to figure that shit out. Matter of fact, stop watching political commentary and figure it out yourself. Daily Wire, NowThis, Fox News, NBC News, NYT, Washington Post, etc... do not have your best interests at heart. They're called mass media for a reason. They steer the conversation, regardless of how many potential subscribers they are losing. Headlines still matter. That's how they get social media users to talk about something.
No one wants to be educated. Sometimes, not even me. That's p bleak if you ask me.
First off, I wanna say that my comment is completely biased and destructive as this is what was meant by the pronoun game. I assumed incorrectly, and I should have just let it be. Nevertheless......
First off, I wanna say that my comment is completely biased and destructive as this is what was meant by the pronoun game. I assumed incorrectly, and I should have just let it be. Nevertheless...
An example I can give is the live-action Aladdin adaptation. A very noticeable change is Princess Jasmine's character arc. In the original animation, she does not want to marry any man as all of them want power rather than love. In the live-action, Jasmine does not want to marry any man and feels oppressed under her father's government in Agrabah. The adaptation leans significantly into this.... and it doesn't line up. It doesn't contribute to the broader narrative and, in a weird twist of events, she becomes the Sultan at the end...
and still marries Aladdin.
It's surface level fluff that wasn't really there until coincidentally after feminism was championed into mainstream conversation. Whether or not the Weinstein allegations or the SJW era of the Internet played into the development of the live-action adaptation, I don't know. But it's a lot more than a coincidence that a movie has a half-baked subsubplot of Jasmine experiencing normalised sexism and objectification, after we experienced a massive paradigm shift in American politics.
Shang-Chi, Spiderman: No Way Home, and Guardians 3 were good! But yeah - the MCU needs good writing and plotting - more movies in different genres the way Winter Solider was a spy thriller.
Shang-Chi, Spiderman: No Way Home, and Guardians 3 were good!
But yeah - the MCU needs good writing and plotting - more movies in different genres the way Winter Solider was a spy thriller.
I think Marvel has also been Disney IP long enough that the films coming out now are 100% Disney products. Guardians of the Galaxy was lightning in a bottle -they made a hit movie out of a fringe...
I think Marvel has also been Disney IP long enough that the films coming out now are 100% Disney products. Guardians of the Galaxy was lightning in a bottle -they made a hit movie out of a fringe IP- and they keep reaching for more to the point where there's multiple reaches in each "phase."
They are trying to squeeze everything they can out of that $4B investment and they just can't make quality sequels fast enough. I'm pretty sure even their "duds" like Eternals turn a profit so I wouldn't expect them to change course anytime soon. It's a factory now.
Quality is definitely an issue, nobody is going to willingly subject themselves to watching crap over and over again. The inertia behind the studios and their fiscal modelling of...
Quality is definitely an issue, nobody is going to willingly subject themselves to watching crap over and over again. The inertia behind the studios and their fiscal modelling of few-very-expensive-movies-every-year instead of lots-of-very-cheap-movies-every-year means it takes a while for the tide to turn and the new movies in development to come out that don't suck.
That said, at least in the States, half the country hates the other half and inevitably feels a little helpless in trying to change that themselves, and while that remains the case the pure escapist fantasy of One Guy (who happens to have an Iron suit, or turns green, or has some other super power) Changing The World will likely have play.
I loved superhero movies when the hype started (Iron Man 1, The Avengers 1, that era) but as time went on I just got burned out on them. All the MCU movies are pretty much the same deal and I...
I loved superhero movies when the hype started (Iron Man 1, The Avengers 1, that era) but as time went on I just got burned out on them. All the MCU movies are pretty much the same deal and I can't sit through them anymore. The last MCU movie I really enjoyed was Thor Ragnarok.
I agree with the article. I'm not tired of the superhero genre at all. I am tired of most of the new Marvel stuff however. It really is the same thing over and over again. They're not movies, but...
I agree with the article. I'm not tired of the superhero genre at all. I am tired of most of the new Marvel stuff however. It really is the same thing over and over again.
They're not movies, but if people were tired of superheroes in general, The Boys wouldn't be as popular. I also watched Extraordinary recently and I enjoyed that.
And like the article mentioned, Spiderverse is doing really well. I loved that movie.
There are many ways to explore the superhero genre but Marvel keeps sticking to their one formula and they're not even pulling it off that well.
But I do feel like there's now a stigma around superhero movies. People dismiss it just because it's about superpowers. Which is kind of sad to me. I like many genres. People with superpowers is just one of the many. I don't want it deligitimised.
And on a slightly separate topic, the article mentioned a different article about Thor and it had a Tarantino quote that I've seen from time to time.
“Part of the Marvel-ization of Hollywood is…you have all these actors who have become famous playing these characters,” Tarantino said on the “2 Bears, 1 Cave” podcast. “But they’re not movie stars. Right? Captain America is the star. Or Thor is the star. I mean, I’m not the first person to say that. I think that’s been said a zillion times…but it’s like, you know, it’s these franchise characters that become a star.”
I understand what he's saying. But I don't see this as a bad thing? Why is this a bad thing? I think there's more merit to a movie if the characters were what people fell in love with and not because it's the actor playing them.
Part of the problem with the death of the movie star is that we don’t get as many interesting mid-budget movies anymore as we did in the 90s when the movie star was alive and well. Something like...
Part of the problem with the death of the movie star is that we don’t get as many interesting mid-budget movies anymore as we did in the 90s when the movie star was alive and well.
Something like Fight Club wouldn’t have been greenlit without Brad Pitt’s involvement, and stuff like As Good As It Gets and Jerry Maguire wouldn’t have been box office hits (both in the top 10 of their year) without Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise respectively. Studios used to take more risks because they’d have a guaranteed draw with a movie star. That just doesn’t exist anymore really.
People are tired of the standard heroes story using tropes and plot devices from previous movies repeatedly. Like if a movie goes, goodie meets the baddies, baddies win a battle, goodie has a...
People are tired of the standard heroes story using tropes and plot devices from previous movies repeatedly.
Like if a movie goes, goodie meets the baddies, baddies win a battle, goodie has a crisis of conscience/power up quest, baddie loses - then I am walking away saying “meh”.
The Flash doesn't really follow that plot apparently, though to say more would be spoilery. I haven't seen the film nor do I really plan on it, but I listened to a review on a podcast and to my...
The Flash doesn't really follow that plot apparently, though to say more would be spoilery. I haven't seen the film nor do I really plan on it, but I listened to a review on a podcast and to my amazement given the review headlines I've seen, they universally recommended it. They praised Ezra Miller's acting, the light-hearted nature as a throw-back to 90s style superhero movies, and the fact that the end didn't involve (only) a fight vs the baddie. They said the effects were quite bad at times, but that this was part of the charm. I'm starting to think the hosts just have weird tastes.
Agreed. I also don’t think people are tired of super hero movies. I think they are tired of superheros. It’s difficult for mainstream audiences to get invested in a new hero every 4 months with...
Agreed. I also don’t think people are tired of super hero movies. I think they are tired of superheros. It’s difficult for mainstream audiences to get invested in a new hero every 4 months with movies that have the same themes over and over. Studios are hopping for the next Guardians, but you need good talent.
While I am likely going to see Blue Beetle, to support a Hispanic super hero, it does look overall generic. The look has also been done before in Guyver, Kamen Roder(The Masked Rider), Beetle Borgs and probably many more. Furthermore Blue Beetle was an attempt at recapturing Spider-Man but for DC. From a comics point of view he never got there.
I think taking existing heroes, expanding the mythology, world etc and placing them along with other established characters ends up working better sometimes. You kept getting Iron Man without needing new Iron Man movies for example, and you were still able to grow the character.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The concept of a main character with gifts defeating another person with gifts but using them selfishly is actually devoid of an underlying relatability -...
I think you hit the nail on the head.
The concept of a main character with gifts defeating another person with gifts but using them selfishly is actually devoid of an underlying relatability - which is usually countered by a “fun ride” and though people like rollercoasters and explosions, there’s only so many times you can ride before it’s boring.
I'm more tired of all the hackjob movies following some Hollywood/Oscar template. Extremely PC, obvious bandwagoning and low creativity across the board. I could also do without drama being pry...
I'm more tired of all the hackjob movies following some Hollywood/Oscar template. Extremely PC, obvious bandwagoning and low creativity across the board.
I could also do without drama being pry bared into everything. Can't even find a good comedy, they're all dramedies now. Sometimes feels like there's some conspiracy to make us all depressed by making sure movies are full of downers and pelting us in the face with reasons the world sucks.
What is a good comedic movie that isn't a downer to you? I'm looking for more of that. I enjoyed the latest Dungeons and Dragons movie. It had the whole father daughter thing but it was mostly...
What is a good comedic movie that isn't a downer to you? I'm looking for more of that.
I enjoyed the latest Dungeons and Dragons movie. It had the whole father daughter thing but it was mostly funny to me.
I've also been watching comedic shows that are more silly and dumb because that's what I need right now. I was on a Yonderland binge.
Huh. This sounds like it could be a separate topic post on its own. Maybe I should make one.
I mean, people can watch whatever they want but I’ve stopped watching this genre altogether (quite a while ago actually). Maybe I’ll check back in when someone does something innovative with the genre again but at this point it feels like the fast food of movies. They crank them out full of addictive ingredients in order to temporarily sate an audiences hunger but ultimately they’re telling the same rehashed stories over and over with little to no soul.
If you like to eat fast food, cool, you do you but I prefer home cooked meals that somebody gives a shit about when they’re making them.
James Gunn's The Suicide Squad and Guardians movies have been highlights for me, and I'm pretty excited to see him get a shot at running DC.
He's clearly a huge fan and passionate about the work, and the man has a really impressive ability to make me feel an emotional connection with characters in pulpy genre stories.
One thing that stood out for me in GOTG 3, is that Gunn allowed the sad/ disturbing moments to actually play out and didn't follow the now standard Marvel playbook of immediately disrupting these moments with humor.
Yes there were funny moments in the film but also some really hard hitting stuff for a Marvel film. It is that element of Gunn's approach to GOTG 3 that gives me quite a bit of confidence in him helming a Superman film.
I even noticed him flipping it on more than one occasion in that movie - they'd land a joke, but instead of giving the audience time to laugh, turn around and gut-punch the audience with something sad. It was such an on-the-nose reversal of the most common complaint about the Marvel formula that it had to be intentional.
Good point Arlen!
Comics have been a lifelong hobby/ interest for me and I am definitely pretty burnt out by most Marvel and DC product these days. I went into GOTG 3 with really low expectations. So it really impressed me. I did enjoy Gunn's Suicide Squad and Peacemaker.
Wasn't too keen on GOTG 2, (really didn't like Ego revealed to be the cause of Peter's Mom's cancer. I thought her dying of cancer really grounded/ humanized that first film and was one of the things that made it special.)
Anyway, I'm willing to give Gunn a lot of leeway mostly because of all those moments he let play out in GOTG 3.
I'm excited to see what he does with DC moving forward. Maybe it will be DC's moment to dominate superhero fare? We shall see. But post Endgame I have just been so disengaged from almost everything Marvel has put out. I really feel that all of the Disney+ tv shows diluted the brand.
I also felt like most of the jokes weren’t played off as jokes in-universe, they were often quite serious, jokes in other Marvel movies almost feels like satire at this point.
Peacemaker was a pretty sweet show on HBO too.
Don't sleep on The Batman, Joker, and the Spider-Verse series! As someone jaded by MCU Phase 4-5 movies and who has not seen a single DCEU movie in theatre (and not even all of them streamed), I feel you! But these are gems, I guess because they're in their own universes, free to passionately do what they want instead of just chasing trends.
As mentioned in other comments, James Gunn's direction is one of only two things that's made any of the past several years of superhero schlock interesting.
The other, so far unmentioned in response to you--and directly better and more novel than Gunn's cape oeuvre as a whole, though Gunn certainly has his moments--is the Spider-Verse films, and they require no knowledge whatsoever of any of the MCU or DC films to enjoy. Seriously, they're so damn good.
It's definitely a quality thing. GOTG 3 was an incredible movie; I didn't even like 2, and it blew me out of the water. The animated Spiderman movies have been phenomenal. People aren't tired of "superhero movies", they're tired of movies made with no creative vision above and beyond "superhero movie."
I don't watch any of the DC stuff but I would have actually seen this one if Ezra Miller wasn't such a monster. Even if I wasn't paying for it since I have AMC Stubs, I still couldn't support
himthem in anyway by contributing to the success of the movie. I'd rather watch the new Spiderverse movie or Past Lives again instead.Them.
Maybe in this case they should have used "Ezra Miller" instead of "them" so that it's clear "them" doesn't refer to the studio or Ezra Miller and the studio.
I need to see Past Lives. Shoutout A24, Beau Is Afraid is another movie I enjoyed seeing in theatres. Such a fun nightmare, and I enjoyed almost every second of it.
Yes. No one gets tired of really good movies.
You can tell when the 'suits' are involved... they do market research and force the movie to have:
etc
feels like it written by AI
That's not against the premise
from the article. That being said, this is like some chatGPT level analysis.
But that is exactly the premise. It's right in the headline.
Superhero fatigue is not real. Crappy generic movie fatigue, however, is an epidemic.
isn't it true for all? crappy everything, even in the digital world, has become an epidemic.
People used to be proud of quality, so quality was given. Now, some people still seek quality but more people want a quick fix, that's why everything is built quickly and crappy with insane margins for maximum profit.
I mean, it is for me, but I was never into superhero movies to begin with (or action movies in general).
I miss comedies. I keep hoping this fad of superhero movies and reboots will die, so we can at least get one good comedy per year.
Honestly, I'm not really sure what they thought would happen with The Flash. Ezra Miller has been insane for years, and after canning Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck, and WW84 doing poorly, there's literally no future for this DCCU so releasing this movie was literally pointless outside of DC attempting to make back some of the money they've lost.
I've said it for years, but I'll say it here too, DC needs to just accept the fact that their universe is better animated and try releasing some animated movies in theatres. They will do SO much better, especially if they can give some of their movies/characters the R rating they need.
Marvel movies are just stale and boring, after how bad The Eternals was, my interest in Marvel was shot.
OH man, can you imagine a well-drawn, well-voiced R-rated DC animated movie?! Like Mask of the Phantasm but even better?!
DC would finally find some footing.
Exactly! But they're more interested in trying to be too much like Marvel rather than trying to find their own niche.
One can hope. Just watched The Flash this morning and was wishing the whole time that I was watching Flashpoint Paradox instead. The budget really hampered Paradox's adaptation, but I think it helps the case of what a high budget DCAU movie could do. Hopefully, Gunn sees that with the Spider-Verse movies doing so well.
Eternals felt like a DC movie to me. Marvel movies since then haven't been like that one at all.
Eternals had potential, but that move had like three plots going on at the same time and none of them were really developed. It honestly felt like they had plots set out for a few movies and marvel said "do one movie and use it all or don't make anything." So they pushed out what we got.
I thought it was better than most DC movies. I don’t really understand how DC keeps doing the same thing and the producers and audiences keep getting hyped for it like Charlie Brown lining up for a football.
The sparkle and wow factor that came with the OG Iron Man has faded. The bar has been set high to me early in the Marvel universe. I haven't been to the theater since Dr Strange and the Multiverse. Writing and lackluster acting combined with Disney+ Series constantly dropping have just soured me for a bit.
On Reddit, this comment would be downvoted and never seen after the fourth snarky disagree downvote. So we'll try out Tildes and see if substance can work.
About ten or fifteen years ago, "the internet" discovered story theory. The basic stories, like "coming of age" or "hero's journey" or "happily ever after." And proceeded to dub them all unoriginal, and then shit on any story that they didn't like where they could put their finger on which chapter heading out of story theory the movie or story fit.
When someone likes a movie, they don't shit on it. Further, they don't care that they know it's a revenge story, or a buddy story, a forgiveness story. They don't care because they're busy having fun.
As one example, John Wick is a barebones revenge story. Period, done, that's what it is. That's all it is. But because it's popular, it's considered 'original.' I like John Wick. A lot. My point is just because I know the core story, and have seen it before, and will (gladly) see it again, doesn't change that I do like it, or that I should start disliking it. Originality comes from execution, not idea. John Wick put the stunts front and center, made an excellent choice of actor to breathe life into the role, and just works. But when you drill into it, the same as you can drill into any movie to the core level, it's not "original." Core stories, the basic themes, repeat for a reason; people like them.
When someone isn't having fun with a movie, when they've decided they hate the movie, they look for "reasons" to "prove" to others why it's worth that hate. Because on Social Media, it's all about bandwagons.
All of which is to say, it's really easy to just jump on a bandwagon. In the mid 2010s, Marvel was on the rise. Breaking box office records. Bringing 'new' stories out, so it was easy to be on that bandwagon. Iron Man is a basic story, Thor is a basic story, The Avengers is a basic story. How those stories were told made them fun and interesting to a lot of folks. Plus the industry observers were blown away by the ticket sales, so they helped goad the positivity.
But now Marvel's in a building phase, and the DCU is a directionless dumpster fire (until Gunn fixes it), making it easy to just dunk on them. So the current Social Media bandwagon is to just chatter about "superhero fatigue."
Plus, of course, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Some folks don't like romance stories. Or action stories. Or superhero stories. The ones who mostly didn't like superhero stories are totally in favor of the "superhero fatigue" bandwagon. They combine with the bandwagoneers and keep harping about the coming fall of superheroes.
There are a lot of people on Social Media, and on wanna-be 'industry' websites, who need something to say. Right now, one of those lazy topics is 'superhero fatigue.' They pop it up, collect some "yeah" from the bandwagoneeers and pre-existing anti-hero people, and some "hey wait" from the people who do like superheroes, and collect the impressions from their post/tweet/video/whatever.
I don't like the Fast and Furious movies. The first one I do, a lot; the next two are pretty decent in my opinion. They they got odd. Then they got weird. You know what? I don't go. I don't even look for them on the high seas anymore. But a lot of other people do go, clearly. They must like them. Okay, cool. Enjoy cars in space I guess. But what I don't do is make them feel like they're "wrong" just because they like the shenanigans and hijinks in the F&F universe.
A whole lot of people who grew up on comics have grown up. Some of them reached decision making chairs behind desks that can approve big budget movies and bring these characters to life. I grew up loving comics. Now I get to see heroes living and breathing on the big screen in glorious full production projects; not stuffed into bad body paint and horrible spandex on a twelve dollar sound stage.
If one doesn't like superhero films, that's cool. But shitting on the genre kind of isn't. It really never is, and no one likes it, when something they enjoy is made out to be bad by others who aren't honest enough to admit the reason they're doing it is just to be divisive and selfish.
Just want to second this, that's a pretty good writeup. Media literacy feels like it's at an all-time low with these blockbusters. You bring up a good point, people decide whether or not they like a movie, and then try to convey their opinion as "objective" by trying to find evidence to support their position by nitpicking plot contrivances, or visual effects, or some cherry-picked dialogue.
My favorite reviewers try to evaluate a work based on how accurately it conveys its message, and how much it "got what it was going for". Not everything was made for me personally, and I respect that. I hate horror movies generally, but I don't say a horror movie was bad because I was too stressed to enjoy it.
Ultimately, everything is Shakespeare, you're going to come across the same ideas behind different stories. A film does not become irredeemable because you thought a certain line was cringy or didn't understand the actions of a side character. I wish people were more interested in talking about what a film or game or tv show is rather than what it's not. I don't know if "youtube critics" have polluted the conversation space or if the explosion of consumers hand-in-hand with the ease of digital opinion sharing has shifted the landscape, but it bothers me.
I want to focus on one part of your argument:
I go absolutely batshit when people pull this one out. There are a lot of plot holes in a lot of things, but they are never an issue for me if they don't impede the story being told. I'm reminded of how some of my coworkers responded to how bad A Quiet Place was because of the "waterfall" scene blowing holes in the film. Holy jesus, it's there for character development. It doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense, the scene holds it together by shaping the father character's doubts.
How did the waterfall scene create a plot hole? I remember the scene but I can’t remember how it would create a plot hole
Something about the monsters not being attracted to the waterfall is the way I read it.
I agree. The key to marvel has always been above average writing for action movies. Theyre no longer hitting that bar. Same thing with Netflix marvel adaptations.
Good writing is good writing. Pronoun game and “We can’t talk now” Is lazy. Sales reflect that
Pronoun game?
Pronoun game is when you depict characters having a conversation, but you never get what the subject of it is because they always use pronouns instead. The writer than smirks thinking “this totally natural dialogue will build the mystery for the audience!”
I've never heard that term before, but that's also a technique that pops up in written prose here and there. It's a very forced attempt at building suspense that rarely delivers a worthwhile payoff.
Yeah this is what i was referring to. It's a pretty common trope. "He's Coming!" "who" "i don't have time to tell you"...repeat.
This is ALL OVER the recent antman to the point of not just being lazy writing, but straight up absurd.
Actually quite interested in what Eji meant because while identity politics and heartless progressive shit popping up in Hollywood israel, I think this is slightly misdirected.
The problem is studios shitting on leftist politics by greenlighting regurgitated IP contracted to industry hacks, mass media dickriding these properties, and privileged moviegoers gawking at such faux representation when it's fast food. Why? Leftism is popular, and easy to lean into. The youth and minorities are an important demographic, I would think.
It sells. People seem to forget that regardless of what this privileged commie (me) tells you, business runs on money. No money, no success. You don't need to be Tucker Carlson to figure that shit out. Matter of fact, stop watching political commentary and figure it out yourself. Daily Wire, NowThis, Fox News, NBC News, NYT, Washington Post, etc... do not have your best interests at heart. They're called mass media for a reason. They steer the conversation, regardless of how many potential subscribers they are losing. Headlines still matter. That's how they get social media users to talk about something.
No one wants to be educated. Sometimes, not even me. That's p bleak if you ask me.
I think I sorta understand what you're going for but I might need an example?
First off, I wanna say that my comment is completely biased and destructive as this is what was meant by the pronoun game. I assumed incorrectly, and I should have just let it be. Nevertheless...
An example I can give is the live-action Aladdin adaptation. A very noticeable change is Princess Jasmine's character arc. In the original animation, she does not want to marry any man as all of them want power rather than love. In the live-action, Jasmine does not want to marry any man and feels oppressed under her father's government in Agrabah. The adaptation leans significantly into this.... and it doesn't line up. It doesn't contribute to the broader narrative and, in a weird twist of events, she becomes the Sultan at the end...
and still marries Aladdin.
It's surface level fluff that wasn't really there until coincidentally after feminism was championed into mainstream conversation. Whether or not the Weinstein allegations or the SJW era of the Internet played into the development of the live-action adaptation, I don't know. But it's a lot more than a coincidence that a movie has a half-baked subsubplot of Jasmine experiencing normalised sexism and objectification, after we experienced a massive paradigm shift in American politics.
Shang-Chi, Spiderman: No Way Home, and Guardians 3 were good!
But yeah - the MCU needs good writing and plotting - more movies in different genres the way Winter Solider was a spy thriller.
yeah, that's only 3 of their last 3 years of movies. not a sustainable pattern at all
I think Marvel has also been Disney IP long enough that the films coming out now are 100% Disney products. Guardians of the Galaxy was lightning in a bottle -they made a hit movie out of a fringe IP- and they keep reaching for more to the point where there's multiple reaches in each "phase."
They are trying to squeeze everything they can out of that $4B investment and they just can't make quality sequels fast enough. I'm pretty sure even their "duds" like Eternals turn a profit so I wouldn't expect them to change course anytime soon. It's a factory now.
Quality is definitely an issue, nobody is going to willingly subject themselves to watching crap over and over again. The inertia behind the studios and their fiscal modelling of few-very-expensive-movies-every-year instead of lots-of-very-cheap-movies-every-year means it takes a while for the tide to turn and the new movies in development to come out that don't suck.
That said, at least in the States, half the country hates the other half and inevitably feels a little helpless in trying to change that themselves, and while that remains the case the pure escapist fantasy of One Guy (who happens to have an Iron suit, or turns green, or has some other super power) Changing The World will likely have play.
I miss more relatable character dramas myself.
I loved superhero movies when the hype started (Iron Man 1, The Avengers 1, that era) but as time went on I just got burned out on them. All the MCU movies are pretty much the same deal and I can't sit through them anymore. The last MCU movie I really enjoyed was Thor Ragnarok.
I agree with the article. I'm not tired of the superhero genre at all. I am tired of most of the new Marvel stuff however. It really is the same thing over and over again.
They're not movies, but if people were tired of superheroes in general, The Boys wouldn't be as popular. I also watched Extraordinary recently and I enjoyed that.
And like the article mentioned, Spiderverse is doing really well. I loved that movie.
There are many ways to explore the superhero genre but Marvel keeps sticking to their one formula and they're not even pulling it off that well.
But I do feel like there's now a stigma around superhero movies. People dismiss it just because it's about superpowers. Which is kind of sad to me. I like many genres. People with superpowers is just one of the many. I don't want it deligitimised.
And on a slightly separate topic, the article mentioned a different article about Thor and it had a Tarantino quote that I've seen from time to time.
I understand what he's saying. But I don't see this as a bad thing? Why is this a bad thing? I think there's more merit to a movie if the characters were what people fell in love with and not because it's the actor playing them.
Part of the problem with the death of the movie star is that we don’t get as many interesting mid-budget movies anymore as we did in the 90s when the movie star was alive and well.
Something like Fight Club wouldn’t have been greenlit without Brad Pitt’s involvement, and stuff like As Good As It Gets and Jerry Maguire wouldn’t have been box office hits (both in the top 10 of their year) without Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise respectively. Studios used to take more risks because they’d have a guaranteed draw with a movie star. That just doesn’t exist anymore really.
People are tired of the standard heroes story using tropes and plot devices from previous movies repeatedly.
Like if a movie goes, goodie meets the baddies, baddies win a battle, goodie has a crisis of conscience/power up quest, baddie loses - then I am walking away saying “meh”.
The Flash doesn't really follow that plot apparently, though to say more would be spoilery. I haven't seen the film nor do I really plan on it, but I listened to a review on a podcast and to my amazement given the review headlines I've seen, they universally recommended it. They praised Ezra Miller's acting, the light-hearted nature as a throw-back to 90s style superhero movies, and the fact that the end didn't involve (only) a fight vs the baddie. They said the effects were quite bad at times, but that this was part of the charm. I'm starting to think the hosts just have weird tastes.
Agreed. I also don’t think people are tired of super hero movies. I think they are tired of superheros. It’s difficult for mainstream audiences to get invested in a new hero every 4 months with movies that have the same themes over and over. Studios are hopping for the next Guardians, but you need good talent.
While I am likely going to see Blue Beetle, to support a Hispanic super hero, it does look overall generic. The look has also been done before in Guyver, Kamen Roder(The Masked Rider), Beetle Borgs and probably many more. Furthermore Blue Beetle was an attempt at recapturing Spider-Man but for DC. From a comics point of view he never got there.
I think taking existing heroes, expanding the mythology, world etc and placing them along with other established characters ends up working better sometimes. You kept getting Iron Man without needing new Iron Man movies for example, and you were still able to grow the character.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
The concept of a main character with gifts defeating another person with gifts but using them selfishly is actually devoid of an underlying relatability - which is usually countered by a “fun ride” and though people like rollercoasters and explosions, there’s only so many times you can ride before it’s boring.
I'm more tired of all the hackjob movies following some Hollywood/Oscar template. Extremely PC, obvious bandwagoning and low creativity across the board.
I could also do without drama being pry bared into everything. Can't even find a good comedy, they're all dramedies now. Sometimes feels like there's some conspiracy to make us all depressed by making sure movies are full of downers and pelting us in the face with reasons the world sucks.
What is a good comedic movie that isn't a downer to you? I'm looking for more of that.
I enjoyed the latest Dungeons and Dragons movie. It had the whole father daughter thing but it was mostly funny to me.
I've also been watching comedic shows that are more silly and dumb because that's what I need right now. I was on a Yonderland binge.
Huh. This sounds like it could be a separate topic post on its own. Maybe I should make one.