The other day I had to get new glasses, and I braced myself for my lenses to be incredibly thick and expensive to boot again - but then I had them made, they look normal, and they barely cost me a Benjamin. Clearly, the optometrist crowd has made some major developments in the past decade or so, which leads me to ask - if you're working in an industry most people don't really think about, what's happened in your space in the past ten years?

I just chatted online with someone currently hiring for a mid-level software engineer who received more than 2,000 applications. That’s ridiculous.

So (inspired by actual events), I’m writing a freelanced article, "Upending the hiring process for technical talent.” Although the topic applies to any job search situation, the story is tuned to software developers and other tech fields, and I expect both remote work and AI to be primary factors.

Getting thousands of applications is nuts for both the company and the applicants. My question is, "What — if anything — can be done to make the process more sane for everybody?"

I would love input from the wise people on Tildes. (Formal attribution is not required, but context is helpful for verisimilitude: "...says one program lead from a midwest insurance firm.") I know you have opinions. However, the HIVE MIND responses I care about should come from people who have been affected by this change – primarily HR professionals and tech industry hiring managers. My short (?) list of questions:

• How many job applications do you typically get today for a technical position such as a software engineer? How has that number changed?
• Are there differences in the applications? I’m open to anything from “remote work expanded the number of people who want to work here” to “They are impersonal and seem AI-generated” to… well, what? Tell me.
• How do you triage the applications (no / maybe / worth talking to)? How long does it take? For HR, what percentage of the applications are provided to the hiring managers? For hiring managers, how does that percentage make you feel?
• How have you changed job listings? For instance, are you asking for more information in the application process or including more detail in the job req? Are you employing tools that claim to sort responses? Are you offering salary transparency so that nobody wastes time when the numbers don’t align?
• What changes have you implemented in the job process? (Turning more to recruiters, for instance? Relying more on employee referrals?)
• Is “return to office” an issue here? (I would imagine that “local candidates only” would reduce the number of applications, but I don’t want to assume too much about any HR connection.)
• Regardless of what your company IS doing to deal with the job application deluge, what — if anything — do you think COULD be done to make the process more sane for everybody? What would you do if you could wave a magic wand to address the problem?

I’m a software engineer with 4 years of experience in a contract position that ends in a few months, with no renewal or conversion. Previously I was laid off in December 2022 and didn’t find work until March 2023, so I’m trying to stay ahead of unemployment by applying for jobs before my contract ends.

Since January I’ve been applying to all sorts of SWE jobs, either tailored to my experience or generalist roles I can fill. I’ve had two interviews, and they were for small on-site companies in my town. One I had to turn down an offer because their company was a nightmare, and the other went with a candidate who had more experience.

I feel demoralized, frustrated, and anxious. Only two interviews in nearly 6 months? I thought the job search in 2023 was rough, but this is ridiculous. I’m confident in my ability to perform above expectations and I think if I could at least get more interviews I wouldn’t be searching for so long.

I assume my resume must be the issue so I’ve rewritten it several times, getting feedback from managers and senior employees while also feeding it through ATS scanners. It’s come a long way but as of recently they all tell me it’s a great resume. They say it should at least get me an interview. And ATS scanners aren’t telling me anything is missing.

Recently I even got an internal referral for a position through a friend of a friend, and my experience lined up nicely with the job description too. I thought this would be a sure thing, most hires come from networking rather than cold applications. Their engineering manager viewed my LinkedIn profile and I’ve since been ghosted. This experience hurt the most, because what else could they want? I feel like I’ve got a sticky note on my back that says do not hire instead of kick me!

I can’t be alone in this experience. Is anyone else on here struggling in this job market? How long can this go on for and how bad is it going to get?

Do you go by gut/heart feeling?

Do you analyze by head?

Do you write out long lists of pros and cons on paper?

Do you consult a lot of family and friends and then go by consensus majority?

Do you overanalyze and agonize and hit decision paralysis? If so, how do you get over that or push through it?

There is a horse race. The horses are running as fast as they can around the track. Around and around and around. This is what they're “meant” to do. Suddenly, a horse trips and crashes to the ground. It breaks its leg. It tries to get up. It tries to limp around the track, but it cannot. Try as it might, it can no longer run around and around and around. It is done. The horse is dragged off the track, a white curtain is pulled up around the horse, and a gunshot is heard. The race continues. That is how it goes. Around and around and around.

I've had this recurring thought of the lame racehorse for a few years now. Once I realized I needed to make a living, I set off out of the gates at high speed to become a software engineer. I frantically caught up in math, something I always struggled with in grade school, I took transfer classes at a community college and got 4.0s across the board, I applied to a local university, I got admitted, I stressed and had mental breakdowns and did all my assignments, I graduated Magna Cum Laude, what an honor. I worked so hard, running around and around and around. I actually got my first software engineering position while I was still in university, I worked there part-time for my last year of university, and once I graduated I went full-time. And here I've been running for five years around and around and around. I don't think I can run anymore.

I feel like trips and crashes have been happening over the years, at least I feel like they happen when I suddenly think of the racehorse. And I feel like they get worse and worse. Every time though, eventually I forget about the racehorse, but now I think the racehorse is really lame. And I feel like I am limping along the track not yet being noticed by the referees for some reason, around and around and around.

What keeps me running, and now limping, around and around and around is fear and anxiety. I don't want to think about entering the job market. I don't want to lose my health insurance. I don't want to become financially dependent on my partner. I don't want to feel like a failure. I have watched my brilliant colleagues from university very recently get laid off from their software engineering positions at various companies. And yet somehow I'm still limping around and around and around. I don't even know if I'm limping anymore, I think I'm stuck on the ground just moving my limbs around and around and around. And I'm honestly surprised nobody has noticed yet.

I understand some might suggest burnout. And maybe that is the case, but I've tried to take vacations, I've tried to focus on my own hobbies, and I know this post sounds pretty depressing, but outside of work, I am not depressed. The thing about burnout is that I think you have to actually catch fire before you burnout. Maybe for me it was a slow burn, not a sudden moment of catching on fire. Or maybe I did catch fire at some point, so long ago that I don't remember working so hard, although I probably could be reminded of it by my partner and friends, but I feel like I have never recovered from it. I feel like lifeless ashes from a burnout. I don't feel like I have ever rejuvenated, my ashes did not become soil from which new life can grow.

I have a performance review soon. This year has been the worst performance I've ever had so far. I'm in this weird feeling zone of simultaneously no longer having the energy to care anymore, while also harboring fear and anxiety because I don't want to have the uncertainty of being unemployed. But it generally comes out that "not caring" currently "wins" over the anxiety by a large margin. My work output has been seriously pathetic for at least the past month. Like completely slacking off almost. And I do feel guilty about it, just if anyone is wondering.

I feel like I'm waiting for them to pull up the white curtain and to hear the ringing of a gunshot.

I don't know why I wanted to write this, I guess I am just wanting to connect. I wonder if anyone else has felt such feelings that freeze you and make you feel like you're watching a trainwreck in slow motion that is your own life. And I wonder if anyone else has ever felt like a lame racehorse. I know there are a decent amount of software engineers here.

Thanks for reading.

We all have things we hate about our jobs — for many of us it’s the actual job itself — but I’m interested in hearing about the things that you actually like.

They can be big, satisfying things (like the fulfillment of completing a big project) or they can be tiny little insignificant joys (like writing your to-do list with a really smooth pen).

Let us know what you genuinely like about your work.

For example, this article shows demand for aviation mechanics. What are your observations and experiences re demand in hiring?

https://apnews.com/article/jobs-workers-shortages-hiring-manufacturing-airplane-mechanics-84176a760eaacd1b629e9cef2f6ee42c

Question is for our users here who work/worked in the tech industry (in any capacity) or in a techy position in any industry.

What have you learned?
How did it change you?

Previous questions in series:

What have you learned from...
...being a parent?
...going through a breakup?
...moving to a new place?

These threads remain open, so feel free to comment on old ones if you have something to add!

“Dream” as in something you’d love to do as a job, with no consideration for its feasibility whatsoever. You don’t have to worry about pay, location, requirements, trainings/skill development, etc.

If you could choose the work that you do without having to worry about everything else tied into that decision, what would you do, and why?

"Field" here can refer to career, field of study, or even identity or subculture. Really, it works for anything on which you would consider yourself an expert above the level of the larger lay population.

We probably all have things we love about what we do, and we also all have those things that we loathe or that really get under our skin. What are the highs and lows of your job? Do the highs outweigh the lows, or is it the other way around?

Also, this question is not limited to careers alone. It can refer to your role as, say, a student or a parent -- pretty much anything that saddles you with consistent responsibility.

Hive mind: Does your company re-train people to teach them new skills? What about mindset skills, such as problem-solving and critical thinking? What's worked -- and what doesn't?

I'm writing an article on how to do effectively re-train workers, and I'd like to hear from you (particularly if you have a management or HR background). I might like to quote you, but I certainly would like your input even if that isn't possible.

Companies have always needed to ensure their employee learn new tools (such as replacing OldProgrammingLanguage with NewLanguage) or entirely new skill sets (e.g. for those whose jobs are replaced by automation). But the rate at which old skills perish and new ones have to be learned is increasing.

If we assume that technology changes jobs rather than destroys them, what does that mean for companies in practice?

I was inspired to write this article after reading about “the work skills of tomorrow" https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/10/top-10-work-skills-of-tomorrow-how-long-it-takes-to-learn-them in which critical thinking and problem-solving top the list of skills employers believe will grow in prominence. But that made me wonder: How the heck do you teach soft skills? This isn’t like telling someone, “Take a course in data analytics.” What, if anything, can you do to improve a worker's agility in learning new things, or to become a better problem-solver?

So: What has been your experience? What worked, what failed, what advice would you offer someone (particularly in larger organizations) who wants to take care of their people and move the company forward?

Note that I'm thinking less in terms of training an individual with a new skill (PhotoShop) than skills for a different career (a move to the Accounting department). And please leave out the "I trained myself!" stories; they're a tangent that doesn't help me. And yes, I know plenty of companies just lay people off rather than retrain them; we can leave those out of the discussion, too. This is meant to be a useful how-to to guide companies that want to do it right, so I am interested in practical advice.

We can take this to a private discussion if that's easier.

So a few weeks back someone posted an article here about Super Recognizers. These are people that can instantly remember 80% of a persons face and can identify that face easily later on. It talked about how these people are getting hired by police departments across the world.

It caught my attention because my wife has always been freakishly good at facial recognition and recall. Well, she took the test, which led to another test, and today she received her official invitation to join Super Recognizers International!

This is a big deal because her company is about to go under and she has been considering leaving lately. This will open up doors for her to find work she can do from home on a flexible schedule. Thanks @skybrain for posting that article and thank you to the Tildes community for being here!

• What are some of the clever, ingenious, or potentially even shameful shortcuts or workarounds that exist in your field (or that you know of from others)?

• What problem or hassle do they alleviate/make easier?

• Is the trick always worth it, or are there significant tradeoffs you have to take into account?

At work there's a project that was originally pitched as an automated system we would build for a new client, and now the conversation has shifted towards automating away some data entry tasks for an existing client. If the project is successful I would guess that some or all of the people doing the data entry tasks would be out of a job. And if it's a resounding success I would guess that the powers that be would be eager to apply it in other areas and potentially put more people out of jobs.

This project is in the very early stages of gathering requirements and whatnot so it's not really clear what exactly we're building or what my role in building it would be. But it involves a technology that's new to us (natural language processing) and often times I end up playing some role in a project that involves learning something new, even if it's just in some small way.

So yeah, I know automation replacing low-skill work is nothing new and if these jobs can be automated away, they will be sooner or later, but this is the first time I've been confronted with the idea of using my skills to put people I don't know out of a job and it sticks in my craw. Normally I love automation and interacting with new (to me) tech even if it's nothing groundbreaking and I'm just doing the plumbing to connect system A to interface B, but in the past it's always been in the name of freeing up people from tedious tasks so that they can do more interesting and more important work, rather than "freeing" them of their paycheck. So I'm finding myself adding this to the small but compelling pile of frustrations I have with this job and weighing it against the also-small but also-compelling pile of things I love about it.

Anyway, if you've ever been in a position where you were asked to automate away someone else's job, how did that go? What did you do?

If you haven't, what do you think you would do?

"What do you want to do/be when you grow up?" is a question we've all been confronted with, willingly or not, throughout our lives. It's intercultural, except for the increasingly rare instances where it's culturally or familialy expected that you'll continue a family trade.

And then there are those of us who just can't pick the one true direction, or thought we had it right for a while, then abruptly got bored/burnt out and had to find a new career or calling. I've personally had no fewer than eight different or only tangentially related "careers", sometimes overlapping with hobbies, and I'm floundering a bit to find the next one.

I was just introduced to the "multipotentialite" concept today - see the TED Talk, Why Some of Us Don't Have One True Calling for details, and https://puttylike.com/ for the speaker's site and book information. As the video mentions, polymathy was once highly respected in the Renaissance, but it's been devalued in favor of increasingly narrow specializations in the industrial and information economies.

This thread is for the bewildered, the career peregrinators wandering with or without aim, who've been branded as flakes or losers, or are suffering anxiety/depression because the heavens haven't opened up and rained down purpose and meaningful work.

Tell your story to the extent you're comfortable, ask questions and seek support.

• What is it like to discover a passion?
• What is it like to find yourself losing that passion?
• How did you accommodate the change?
• What carried over successfully from prior careers?
• Did you experience pressure to stay with just one thing?
• Have you had disrupted relationships with family, partners, or friends as a result of these changes?
• Do you feel that you've made unique contributions due to broad experience and/or interdisciplinary knowledge?
• Do you feel discriminated against in the job market for lacking a clear career path?
• Did you suffer damaging mental distress before or as a result of making a career change?
• Is it exciting or frightening to make a change, and has it become more or less so with repeated changes?

This is also open to the people who were seemingly born knowing precisely what they wanted to do - were you successful in pursuing it, or did you have to make accommodations, perhaps discovering something else?

Nothing but a rant and personal outlet here, so if you don't want to read that sort of stuff move along.

To preface this, I haven't gone to uni, gotten an certs, or anything of that sort. I worked my way up the ladder and moved up positions slowly. My experience was/is my crutch. I DO NOT have any intention of going to, or getting any sort of schooling for anything computer related now. I am moving out of the IT industry.

I started with computers at a young age like many people in my profession do. I loved everything about them. Their versatility, the ins and outs of them, hardware, software... It all fascinated me. So I thought, hey why not work with computers because I love them? That's when I got a job at the good ol' yellow tag store selling them!

At first it was great, I got to talk to people on what they were doing with it, try to work within their budget while getting the best computer for their needs, and just got to see what all sorts of people do with their devices. But then the sales numbers started to become a thing. "Hey you aren't hitting your goals." "You need to push financing." "SELL DAMAGE WARRANTY." I fucking hated it. So I changed departments to Geek Squad once I realized that I wasn't a salesmen. I couldn't bring myself to get someone to spend something I didn't believe in. No problem. Started doing more tech support stuff and actually working with computers, instead of selling them and knowing hardware. Except that quickly turned into "SELL SELL SELL!!"

Started looking around for a new job after sales started to become a thing for that position, and ended up finding a job at a local PC store. I was elated. I was a computer technician. I shouldn't have to worry about sales anymore. I work with customers on preexisting devices and get them running well! Although... The passion for computers started to die. I wasn't as excited for new hardware coming out. I didn't want, or care for, the newest thing. AND ON TOP OF THAT I STILL HAD SALES EXPECTATIONS. WTF. I was a tech, not a sales person! How was I suppose to sell half of what the sales guys there do when I'm working on machines all day?? On top of that if I handed something off to a sales rep to call and talk to them, it was always a struggle with them to get them to share the sale with me. Fuck this I'm out.

That's when I got lucky. That's when I found my first actual IT job. I started on the phones at a place, and not even a week in they said they had a desktop support position available. I pushed for 4 weeks to get that job. I hounded the IT manager, director, and the admin there... And eventually, I got it! I was learning so much. So many systems to learn. WTF is AD??? IDK, but imma find out. No need to explain mr boss man, I got my secret weapon... GOOGLE. I learned quickly google was my friend in IT. TBH this job was mostly keep the little shit out of the boss mans hair so he could focus on getting the big shit done. I loved all the little shit. It was all so new and exciting to learn. I had to learn systems that NO ONE at the company knew because someone previously installed that system and no one knew how it worked. I wrote up documentation on it, how to pull info, what to put where for new employees, etc. etc. That was until the layoffs started happening. I started getting worried. Would I be next?? No, I was doing a great job! To top it off, my boss went from a backlog of 50+ items down to 12 in 6 months! They can't get rid of me! ...How young and naive I was. TBF I was the ONLY employee they gave any notice to. A full month. Everyone else came into work, and was let go in 5 min or less. So cool, they definitely appreciated me. Not only that, I was only like 19 at the time. To me it showed me they respected me, and that I was a good worker.

After that passion was a 0. How could a company I worked so hard for do this to me?? I gave up countless hours (to a 19YO that aint much I can tell you that), and I documented everything, I was a good employee... But alas it was the end. I had to find something quick... I'll call up my old manager at the PC store. THAT WAS A MISTAKE. After only being there a week I fell into a depressive hole that I don't think I've quite gotten out of to this day. I was only there a few weeks, but goddamn... I hated every second of it.

Next job was fucking amazing, and I took it for granted. I was lazy. I did what I was suppose to, but I wasn't proactive like before. I didn't care. I thought, "just give yourself some time. you just need to get out of this rut." But I never did. It sucked. Not the work, that was fucking easy. But life sucked. "But you just got married man? How can you be sad??" (outta left field i know, but my relationship status during any of this is a WHOLE different story) I CAN BE SAD BECAUSE I FUCKING HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT LIFE, I thought to myself. I wasn't happy. I should have gotten out then. It should have been the end of my IT career... But my ex-wife and I made a stupid financial decision and I needed the money that came with how hard I had already worked to get the pay I was. I had to stay in to be able to afford the bills. I loved everyone at that job. It was honestly the best. But... Cuts were made. 20ish% of all staffing was cut... Including my position. Not only that, my ex and I talked and we were separating. Wow, I can't even last a year in marriage. FUCK.

That's when shit took a turn for the worse. I dug myself deeper, and deeper, and deeper. Separated, and now talking of divorce... I need time. 3 months. I'll find a job after 3 months. During that time I dated for the sake of not being home. I took nightly drive up the canyon... fast. In retrospect, I think I was hoping to fly off the cliff every night I drove. I wasn't in a good state of mind. But I got good at driving up that canyon fast! It turned into a hobby (although now I am not into cars for various reasons).

But 3 months was up! Wow that was fast. But I feel good. Found a job. Service desk. Cool. Let's go. First day. FUCK. I don't want to be here. I went from desktop support making 40k a year, to service desk making 30k a year. I can barely pay shit rn. I need something better. I need more. I need more. I need MORE. Desktop support position opened there sweet. Apply. Nope the fucking retard got it who had been there for 3 years, even though I already know more than him, AND I get asked by the sysadms for help n the regular because I know the systems they use. But nah, he's been here longer. Fuck this, I'm finding something else.

So I did. Here I am at my current job. As a system administrator. Good money. Like 50k a year. Full paid benefits. I got here with 0 schooling, or certs, just my experience like I was told I would be able to. Sitting pretty... But... I still hate it... WHY? I LIKE COMPUTERS? I LIKED LEARNING THIS SHIT BEFORE?! WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME?? WHY CAN'T I BE HAPPY?

...Oh... Wait... Do I really like computers? No. Not really. Do I want to do this ever rapidly changing career forever? NO. Fuck this. But... I have bills. Okay. Budget time. So now I am still here. I have an end date. Once I get my debts paid I will be out of the IT industry. I am moving states. I will be able to afford to live on much less, and go to school for ANYTHING else. I'm thinking I just want to do something simple for a little like night custodial work, or a security guard. I don't want to have to worry much about the next big thing always around the corner. It's too much stress. It's just not a career for me. Maybe it's not for you. Maybe you should walk away from it to if your not happy.

What's the point of this post? Honestly mostly a rant. But I also want to let people around my age (24 now) know that walking away from a career IS AN OPTION. "But I need the money I make now because of debts!" Dude, did you not read this? I know. I've been working on paying shit off because of my ex and time I took off from work. I'm in the hole. I get it. Budget and get an end date. That helped me out immensely. Knowing there is an end... Just I'm already excited. Then get out of that career if you aren't happy. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR MENTAL HEALTH FOR YOUR CAREER. People in the US have this work work work mentality and I just hate it. I just want to live my life. I don't care about traveling or anything, I just want to be able to live.

I almost posted this in ~news but wasn't really sure so feel free to move the post if I got it wrong.

The new jobs report is out:
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

I consistently feel like the media just runs with the unemployment rate and ignores the other very important numbers. I think that the economy isn't really "booming" for ordinary Americans and I think that the numbers in the job report that aren't widely talked about are eye-opening.

These numbers used to be talked about a LOT more immediately after the 2008 recessions and during the OWS protests.

To be clear, I'm happy the stock market is up but I don't think it's "trickling" down all that much.

Some examples:

Long-term unemployed are not finding work:

The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was little changed at 1.4 million over the month; these individuals accounted for 22.9 percent of the unemployed. (See table A-12.)

There are ~4.5 million people who are working part-time who want to work full time, and that number is rapidly growing with ~250,000 added since last quarter:

The number of persons employed part time for economic reasons (sometimes referred to as involuntary part-time workers) increased by 263,000 to 4.6 million in September. These individuals, who would have preferred full-time employment, were working part time because their hours had been reduced or they were unable to find full-time jobs. (See table A-8.)

More than 1.5 million American's gave up looking for work:

In September, 1.6 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, essentially unchanged from a year earlier. (Data are not seasonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. (See table A-16.)

I realize that businesses want to draw talent from the largest pool possible, and to do so available positions are often advertised simultaneously across several job market websites with audiences larger than what almost any company could reach on their own. Certainly some steps of the application process must be automated when dealing with, what I can only imagine, is a relatively high number of applicants. Websites like Indeed.com have even automated the phone interview process, having applicants take a robo-call and recording their responses to questions selected by the employer. The result, in my own experience, is an often bleak, one-sided, discouraging and depressing bout of dysfunctional online dating, except the relationship you're looking for is with your future employer.

Are there any HR people on Tildes? If so, I'm curious what this whole process looks like on your side and how it differs from say, twenty years ago. Is the process better? Are the people you hire better? How, on your end, could this process be improved? And most importantly, do you have any advice for getting through this increasingly frustrating first step?

Wanted to see if we could get some conversations going with any freelancers who may be around. I figured a good place to start is with one of the more commonly discussed topics, which is the online marketplaces catering to freelancers.

These days, Upwork seems to have gobbled up a huge chunk of that market, while garnering plenty of criticism and complaints along the way for how they handle it. The graphic design space seems to have a little more competition in marketplaces, with 99designs being a frontrunner it seems. Truthfully, there just aren't that many platforms to pick from regardless of your specialty. Which can be a positive, as it provides a centralized place to look for and post available work, can increase exposure to the freelance market as a whole, and ensures you don't have to maintain profiles across numerous platforms which can be far too time consuming sometimes. But of course there are many downsides that come along with that.

The standard advice that comes with such discussions is to ignore the online marketplaces entirely because of those downsides. Competing against an international labor pool, as well as an under-experienced labor pool much of the time, in a format that heavily encourages price competition above other factors can be disastrous for your bottom line (and your sanity). These platforms also generally remove a lot of the negotiating power that a freelancer needs to leverage, as it is much more difficult to establish the captive audience that can be built with more personal interactions.

And frankly, that standard advice has continued to be my own, both for my career as well as to others who may seek such advice. But it does make me wonder if there is a better way to do it. Of course as a developer I'm always looking to find a way to solve problems, so I can concede I may be looking for solutions in a place that is misguided to try to fix.

What has been your experiences with freelance online marketplaces? What advice do you give when asked about it? What would you like to change?

Personally, I feel like I'm in between. I started off as a Manufacturing Engineer, and something just didn't feel right. I sort of fell backwards into Health and Safety, and I love the field, but it's yet another job where you've got to be the bad guy. My mission is to have people believe that I really care about their safety, not some arbitrary numbers.

How about you? What's your favorite part of your job? Least favorite?