I am of course skeptical that Tesla can deliver a viable product here. At least viable and anywhere near claimed specs as those seem to always fly out the window. I’m curious if it will put any...
I am of course skeptical that Tesla can deliver a viable product here. At least viable and anywhere near claimed specs as those seem to always fly out the window.
I’m curious if it will put any pressure on competitors though.
Electrek.co is a small renewables-focused news site. The founder used to be an an enthusiastic Tesla/Musk fan, but the last several years, he's devoted a lot of effort to calling out Musk and...
Electrek.co is a small renewables-focused news site. The founder used to be an an enthusiastic Tesla/Musk fan, but the last several years, he's devoted a lot of effort to calling out Musk and Tesla on one stupid/fraudulent/criminal statement/action after another.
The Tesla Semi is about the only thing left in Tesla's portfolio that he has anything good to say.
The economics are compelling. At $290,000 for the 500-mile version, the Semi undercuts every other Class 8 BEV on the market. Combined with a 3% TCO advantage over diesel and the operational simplicity of electric drivetrains, the business case for fleets is getting hard to ignore.
The real question now is execution speed. Tesla needs to ramp production, build out the Megacharger network fast enough to support the trucks it’s selling, and prove reliability at scale — not in controlled pilot programs, but in the grinding reality of daily commercial freight.
They have, but often way late, more expensive, and less capable than claimed. The cyber truck egregiously so. We’ll see if this being a commercial project rather than a vanity one comes closer to...
They have, but often way late, more expensive, and less capable than claimed.
The cyber truck egregiously so. We’ll see if this being a commercial project rather than a vanity one comes closer to proposed specs.
To add to what u/Eji1700 replied, the Cybertruck in particular is essentially a toy. Around where I live, a big truck that looks very off-road capable in theory but is in reality just used for...
To add to what u/Eji1700 replied, the Cybertruck in particular is essentially a toy. Around where I live, a big truck that looks very off-road capable in theory but is in reality just used for cruising around town and looking cool is referred to as a "pavement princess". Cybertrucks are a few steps past those on the "appearances over usefulness" spectrum.
Their exterior is glued on, and parts frequently fall off causing hazardous debris. The accelerator pedals are also glued on, and have come loose while driving causing uncontrollable acceleration. The towing components fail catastrophically under normal load conditions, while also circumventing normal safety measures (normal trucks have a space for chains that can keep a trailer loosely attached to the truck in the event of a tow hitch failure; the Cybertruck towing system fails at an earlier point, causing both the hitch and the chain loops to become detached at the same time). The doors literally fall apart if closed too hard. This list goes on a bit further, I'm afraid.
All of which is to say, this negligence has been largely excused by Tesla fans, I suspect mostly because these trucks are pavement princesses. They get driven tens of miles a day at most, and are almost never used for towing. Contrast this with semi trucks, which go hundreds of miles a day (very often much beyond the listed range that Tesla has provided and that I doubt, based on history, that they'll attain) at highway speeds (the worst speed for electric vehicles) 7 days a week, driven by employees that often pass the truck to a coworker for the next shift, all while weighing many tons even empty. I'm also very doubtful that Tesla will deliver at all, given their track record of moving the goalposts after people have paid for the vehicle. Consumers, especially the kind who have the money to support a vehicle that is essentially an oversized toy, can tolerate that kind of nonsense. Profit-driven companies won't. Even if they do get these things to market, I would want to see a lot of testing, and even then I wouldn't want to be on the road with them for at least a couple of years to see how they perform once their glue has all cured fully.
Don't forget the two other major things Elon touted about the Cybertruck, it's resistance to firearms and amphibious capabilities, both of which were much less than promised.
Don't forget the two other major things Elon touted about the Cybertruck, it's resistance to firearms and amphibious capabilities, both of which were much less than promised.
I think Tesla deserves a lot of credit for breaking BEVs into the mainstream and forcing other companies to compete. Since then though it feels like they’ve largely been resting on the laurels....
I think Tesla deserves a lot of credit for breaking BEVs into the mainstream and forcing other companies to compete. Since then though it feels like they’ve largely been resting on the laurels. The “innovation” in the cars recently seems to be cost cutting that isn’t passed back to the consumer.
Removing the stalks from behind the steering wheel is a terrible decision for driver experience for example.
I mean their ultimate goal is to make you a passenger in your own car as it drives you around. As a result, they're aggressively pursuing that even before the self-driving portion of that is 100%...
I mean their ultimate goal is to make you a passenger in your own car as it drives you around. As a result, they're aggressively pursuing that even before the self-driving portion of that is 100% solved.
People really don't give them enough credit for this. To be fair, it was a long time ago at this point. But they really did create the modern EV market, and showed that an upstart American car...
People really don't give them enough credit for this. To be fair, it was a long time ago at this point. But they really did create the modern EV market, and showed that an upstart American car company could succeed.
You mentioned the stalks, but it's the entire control system that's user-hostile. Stalks were a good invention and cars should have them, same with physical buttons. Also steering wheels are normally round for a reason, how are you going to palm a "steering rectangle" through a turn?
I'm sure this has all been beaten to death at this point but it still makes me mad. Before Elon when totally off the deep end the Model 3 could have been a nice, affordable EV if they hadn't fucked up "innovated" the controls so hard.
I have read this article in NY Times about Tesla 18-wheel trucks that are electric. Because the truck is electric, it is better for the environment. Also, it is better for the driver. I hope that...
I have read this article in NY Times about Tesla 18-wheel trucks that are electric.
After years of delays, Tesla has begun taking orders for the Semi, which is expected to cost around $290,000 for the version that can travel up to 500 miles on a charge, much less expensive than heavy-duty electric trucks sold by Daimler, Volvo and other companies, which usually sell for at least $400,000, according to estimates by the International Council on Clean Transportation. Tesla has said the Semi will also have a more affordable model that can travel 350 miles between charges. Both options would travel farther than trucks from other suppliers.
Demand for the Semi appears strong. California trucking firms have asked the state government for subsidies to help them buy more than 1,200 Tesla trucks. That’s more than all the applications for other electric trucks since the state’s incentive program began in 2019.
Because the truck is electric, it is better for the environment.
If Tesla can push the trucking industry toward battery power, the environmental implications could be significant. Heavy- and medium-duty diesel trucks make up a small percentage of all U.S. vehicles but are responsible for 45 percent of nitrogen oxide emissions from road transportation, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists. Nitrogen oxides cause asthma and bronchitis and are the main component of smog.
Also, it is better for the driver.
Mr. Torres said the Semi was quieter than diesel rigs. And he can run the air-conditioning while waiting to drop off a load. That is sometimes not possible with diesel trucks because California limits how long those vehicles can idle in residential areas or near schools and hospitals to minimize pollution.
I hope that Tesla will sell many electric trucks so that all the diesel trucks are replaced. I do not like the diesel trucks because they are polluting and the exhaust is unpleasant to breathe.
This will be a help for local trucking since California does have strict idling rules and it's not just around schools and hospitals and stuff. It's 5 minutes max everywhere with few exceptions,...
And he can run the air-conditioning while waiting to drop off a load. That is sometimes not possible with diesel trucks because California limits how long those vehicles can idle in residential areas or near schools and hospitals to minimize pollution.
This will be a help for local trucking since California does have strict idling rules and it's not just around schools and hospitals and stuff. It's 5 minutes max everywhere with few exceptions, and none around certain locations.
For long haul it doesn't really change much. About ten years ago when I was trucking pretty much any long haul semi that was going to be out days at a time was equipped with an Auxiliary Power Unit, which is a little diesel engine just behind the cab that shares fluids with the main engine and keeps your power, heat, and AC going in the sleeper and coolant and oil warm in the main engine so that you don't have to worry about cold starts. We'd always shut the main engine off and kick in the APU when stopped to save fuel, and that was fine to do in California too.
I'm not sure what the percentage of trucks that have those are, but it was high back then. All the major long haul fleets had them on every truck, and they were a popular upgrade since they paid for themselves in short order. Of course, not burning fuel at all would be even quieter and likely cheaper.
I am reading from the government that it is 1/6 to 1/4 (16-25%) of freight trucks that are long distance. So perhaps this will be useful for the 75-84%, and a future engine will be more useful for...
I am reading from the government that it is 1/6 to 1/4 (16-25%) of freight trucks that are long distance.
So perhaps this will be useful for the 75-84%, and a future engine will be more useful for long-distance trucks.
I don’t see that as a bad thing though? It seems increasingly likely to me that self-driving long haul trucks are going to end up dramatically safer than humans....
I don’t see that as a bad thing though? It seems increasingly likely to me that self-driving long haul trucks are going to end up dramatically safer than humans.
Results: When considering all locations together, the any injury reported crashed vehicle rate was 0.6 incidents per million miles (IPMM) for the ADS vs. 2.80 IPMM for the human benchmark, an 80% reduction or a human crash rate that is 5 times higher than the ADS rate.
That’s mostly city driving as I understand it, which I believe is harder than highway driving so we should see similar or better results. Computers aren’t going to be affected by the main issues truckers face: being exhausted, facing time pressure, and irregular scheduling.
Didn't they prove that ?Tesla?'s self-driving computers would often automatically disconnect Autopilot just before a crash so that "technically" the crash didn't count as an Autopilot crash? I...
Didn't they prove that ?Tesla?'s self-driving computers would often automatically disconnect Autopilot just before a crash so that "technically" the crash didn't count as an Autopilot crash? I just don't trust Musk or any of his companies to be operating in any kind of ethical manner.
The short answer is no. The NHTSB found that autopilot disengaged shortly before some crashes, yes. But it doesn't always happen, there are a variety of potential explanations, and the NHTSB never...
The short answer is no. The NHTSB found that autopilot disengaged shortly before some crashes, yes. But it doesn't always happen, there are a variety of potential explanations, and the NHTSB never suggested that theory, it was all secondary commentators. Anything is possible but "proven" is way way overstating things.
I don’t think automation is generally a bad thing. We couldn’t have modern technology without automation. As a software engineer it would require too much cognitive dissonance if I didn’t believe...
I don’t think automation is generally a bad thing. We couldn’t have modern technology without automation. As a software engineer it would require too much cognitive dissonance if I didn’t believe in automation.
What I really interested in is technical nuances, like time to charge, weight of the semi, is 500 miles for a fully loaded track or empty one, etc. etc.
What I really interested in is technical nuances, like time to charge, weight of the semi, is 500 miles for a fully loaded track or empty one, etc. etc.
Well, a diesel semi truck seems to get about 5 mpg when full, and 10 when empty. 80k lb full, 32k empty. Tank has on the order of 360 gallons. So a range of 1,800 and 3,200 miles. That one I dug...
Well, a diesel semi truck seems to get about 5 mpg when full, and 10 when empty. 80k lb full, 32k empty. Tank has on the order of 360 gallons. So a range of 1,800 and 3,200 miles.
That one I dug in to is on the larger side, but that tells us that even if that 500 miles is fully loaded, it's on the smaller side. If that 500 miles is empty, that means the actual range is probably 250 miles or less.
Somebody with more time could do the math to figure out how much battery is needed to match that range. Then work with an assumption of say a 500kw charger. And an approximate weight for said battery.
Which just goes further to show how weird it seems (to me) that they designed and are marketing this for long-haul trucking and not for local trucking where the starting and stopping would seem to...
Which just goes further to show how weird it seems (to me) that they designed and are marketing this for long-haul trucking and not for local trucking where the starting and stopping would seem to make electric trucks ideal. Maybe I'm missing something.
500 mile is long distance that would be useful for many delivery. However, I have read that the longest distance trucking is only 17-25% of all trucking. Therefore, this may be useful in stopping...
500 mile is long distance that would be useful for many delivery. However, I have read that the longest distance trucking is only 17-25% of all trucking. Therefore, this may be useful in stopping pollution emissions of 75% of trucking.
In theory a pure EV freight truck would be great...if all of our energy sources are green. As-is it'd be just as good, if not better, to convert all fleets to use methane like garbage trucks....
In theory a pure EV freight truck would be great...if all of our energy sources are green.
As-is it'd be just as good, if not better, to convert all fleets to use methane like garbage trucks.
Even without renewables in the mix, most power plants are not going to emit as many greenhouses per KW/h. Beyond that electric motors are way more efficient than internal combustion. Replacing all...
Even without renewables in the mix, most power plants are not going to emit as many greenhouses per KW/h. Beyond that electric motors are way more efficient than internal combustion. Replacing all diesel trucks with electric may not remove all greenhouse gasses immediately but it will still be a massive reduction. In the meanwhile major garbage handling companies like Republic Services are replacing their garbage truck fleets with electric models!
Powerplants are just doing centralized internal combustion. Emissions may be lower because centralized, but then you also have line losses. There is a reason a gas stove is more efficient than a...
Powerplants are just doing centralized internal combustion. Emissions may be lower because centralized, but then you also have line losses.
There is a reason a gas stove is more efficient than a traditional electric burner or baseboard. Even though the electric baseboards are 100% efficient.
To be clear, not opposed to electric trucks (just Tesla). Mostly just skeptical of Tesla claims.
Garbage trucks are among the best candidates for replacement because of short hauls with exponentially more stop/go. Semitrucks are primarily highway, where ICE excels.
Some of the power plants are combustion, and some of the power plants are solar panel. Therefore, on average, the total power plant electricity emission will be less than combustion emission on...
Powerplants are just doing centralized internal combustion. Emissions may be lower because centralized, but then you also have line losses.
Some of the power plants are combustion, and some of the power plants are solar panel. Therefore, on average, the total power plant electricity emission will be less than combustion emission on trucks. I speculate, but I think that the power line does not lose enough energy to defeat that.
What is the reason to use methane garbage trucks? The gas explodes and pollutes the air.
Methane (Natural Gas) produces much less CO2 relative to diesel/gas. So automatic win relative to those. Landfills burn off Methane as a waste product. Hence why many garbage trucks converted to...
Landfills burn off Methane as a waste product. Hence why many garbage trucks converted to Methane, it was pure win.
My wording was unclear: Garbage trucks represent the best-possible use case for EV trucks, right up there with mail and package delivery. EVs are at their best in city traffic, but for highway driving at highway distances, hybrids punch quite well. Esp if we could deploy hybrids 3x faster. At least until nuclear/solar/wind/etc is 100% of new energy.
Burning natural gas releases less CO2 than other sources, but the transportation and storage leaks enough that it actually has a similar effect as coal. Lost coal is just rocks. Lost natural gas...
Burning natural gas releases less CO2 than other sources, but the transportation and storage leaks enough that it actually has a similar effect as coal. Lost coal is just rocks. Lost natural gas is worse than CO2.
Centralized emissions are a lot easier to control than millions of smaller engines, especially when Bubba can just do a DPF delete on his F250 Dually. At least for light duty vehicles, there was a...
Centralized emissions are a lot easier to control than millions of smaller engines, especially when Bubba can just do a DPF delete on his F250 Dually.
At least for light duty vehicles, there was a study that showed EVs were cleaner on something like 48 states electric grids. You had to go to WV or WY (both very coal heavy) to get to the point where emissions/MPGs favored gasoline vehicles. Even a small number of zero-carbon sources swings things in favor of EVs.
There are a number of misconceptions in your response. For one, gas burners are actually dramatically less efficient than a regular electric resistance range. A quick search says that electric is...
There are a number of misconceptions in your response. For one, gas burners are actually dramatically less efficient than a regular electric resistance range. A quick search says that electric is 70-75% efficient compared to 30-40 with gas.
You’re getting a bit confused about efficiency of motors versus the efficiency of the car. EVs - including PHEVs (hybrids) - have regenerative breaking and that’s what makes them ideal for start and stop. But I’m just talking about go force - X KW/h will give you Y force that makes you go forward. Internal combustion is very inefficient and most engines peak at around 40% efficiency. That is made worse because that’s only at a specific RPM, which the engine is rarely ever at. They also have losses from idling. Electric motors don’t waste any energy to idle and they are 80-90% efficient.
This actually isn't true anymore, EVs are lower emitters in almost all situations. Unless your electricity is coming from a dirty coal plant or a Diesel generator out back, it's not going to be...
This actually isn't true anymore, EVs are lower emitters in almost all situations. Unless your electricity is coming from a dirty coal plant or a Diesel generator out back, it's not going to be worse for the environment than a traditional ICE car.... Maybe if it's a very efficient hybrid.
I don't know a ton about it but I wouldn't just assume that electric motors are governed by the same amount of efficiency losses due to weight. Electric drive trains are far more efficient end to...
I don't know a ton about it but I wouldn't just assume that electric motors are governed by the same amount of efficiency losses due to weight.
Electric drive trains are far more efficient end to end, and also get to take advantage of regenerative braking to recover even more energy. Some light research suggests only a 15-25% loss in range in a fully loaded electric 18-wheeler versus empty, as opposed to a diesel 18-wheelers' 30-45% range losses with an equivalent load.
I am of course skeptical that Tesla can deliver a viable product here. At least viable and anywhere near claimed specs as those seem to always fly out the window.
I’m curious if it will put any pressure on competitors though.
Electrek.co is a small renewables-focused news site. The founder used to be an an enthusiastic Tesla/Musk fan, but the last several years, he's devoted a lot of effort to calling out Musk and Tesla on one stupid/fraudulent/criminal statement/action after another.
The Tesla Semi is about the only thing left in Tesla's portfolio that he has anything good to say.
Did Tesla not introduce many electric cars to the USA? What makes you doubt their truck exactly?
They have, but often way late, more expensive, and less capable than claimed.
The cyber truck egregiously so. We’ll see if this being a commercial project rather than a vanity one comes closer to proposed specs.
To add to what u/Eji1700 replied, the Cybertruck in particular is essentially a toy. Around where I live, a big truck that looks very off-road capable in theory but is in reality just used for cruising around town and looking cool is referred to as a "pavement princess". Cybertrucks are a few steps past those on the "appearances over usefulness" spectrum.
Their exterior is glued on, and parts frequently fall off causing hazardous debris. The accelerator pedals are also glued on, and have come loose while driving causing uncontrollable acceleration. The towing components fail catastrophically under normal load conditions, while also circumventing normal safety measures (normal trucks have a space for chains that can keep a trailer loosely attached to the truck in the event of a tow hitch failure; the Cybertruck towing system fails at an earlier point, causing both the hitch and the chain loops to become detached at the same time). The doors literally fall apart if closed too hard. This list goes on a bit further, I'm afraid.
All of which is to say, this negligence has been largely excused by Tesla fans, I suspect mostly because these trucks are pavement princesses. They get driven tens of miles a day at most, and are almost never used for towing. Contrast this with semi trucks, which go hundreds of miles a day (very often much beyond the listed range that Tesla has provided and that I doubt, based on history, that they'll attain) at highway speeds (the worst speed for electric vehicles) 7 days a week, driven by employees that often pass the truck to a coworker for the next shift, all while weighing many tons even empty. I'm also very doubtful that Tesla will deliver at all, given their track record of moving the goalposts after people have paid for the vehicle. Consumers, especially the kind who have the money to support a vehicle that is essentially an oversized toy, can tolerate that kind of nonsense. Profit-driven companies won't. Even if they do get these things to market, I would want to see a lot of testing, and even then I wouldn't want to be on the road with them for at least a couple of years to see how they perform once their glue has all cured fully.
Don't forget the two other major things Elon touted about the Cybertruck, it's resistance to firearms and amphibious capabilities, both of which were much less than promised.
I think Tesla deserves a lot of credit for breaking BEVs into the mainstream and forcing other companies to compete. Since then though it feels like they’ve largely been resting on the laurels. The “innovation” in the cars recently seems to be cost cutting that isn’t passed back to the consumer.
Removing the stalks from behind the steering wheel is a terrible decision for driver experience for example.
I mean their ultimate goal is to make you a passenger in your own car as it drives you around. As a result, they're aggressively pursuing that even before the self-driving portion of that is 100% solved.
People really don't give them enough credit for this. To be fair, it was a long time ago at this point. But they really did create the modern EV market, and showed that an upstart American car company could succeed.
You mentioned the stalks, but it's the entire control system that's user-hostile. Stalks were a good invention and cars should have them, same with physical buttons. Also steering wheels are normally round for a reason, how are you going to palm a "steering rectangle" through a turn?
I'm sure this has all been beaten to death at this point but it still makes me mad. Before Elon when totally off the deep end the Model 3 could have been a nice, affordable EV if they hadn't
fucked up"innovated" the controls so hard.I have read this article in NY Times about Tesla 18-wheel trucks that are electric.
Because the truck is electric, it is better for the environment.
Also, it is better for the driver.
I hope that Tesla will sell many electric trucks so that all the diesel trucks are replaced. I do not like the diesel trucks because they are polluting and the exhaust is unpleasant to breathe.
This will be a help for local trucking since California does have strict idling rules and it's not just around schools and hospitals and stuff. It's 5 minutes max everywhere with few exceptions, and none around certain locations.
For long haul it doesn't really change much. About ten years ago when I was trucking pretty much any long haul semi that was going to be out days at a time was equipped with an Auxiliary Power Unit, which is a little diesel engine just behind the cab that shares fluids with the main engine and keeps your power, heat, and AC going in the sleeper and coolant and oil warm in the main engine so that you don't have to worry about cold starts. We'd always shut the main engine off and kick in the APU when stopped to save fuel, and that was fine to do in California too.
I'm not sure what the percentage of trucks that have those are, but it was high back then. All the major long haul fleets had them on every truck, and they were a popular upgrade since they paid for themselves in short order. Of course, not burning fuel at all would be even quieter and likely cheaper.
I am reading from the government that it is 1/6 to 1/4 (16-25%) of freight trucks that are long distance.
So perhaps this will be useful for the 75-84%, and a future engine will be more useful for long-distance trucks.
I assume this is step one in a product roadmap where the end goal is automating away truck drivers.
I don’t see that as a bad thing though? It seems increasingly likely to me that self-driving long haul trucks are going to end up dramatically safer than humans.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39485678/
That’s mostly city driving as I understand it, which I believe is harder than highway driving so we should see similar or better results. Computers aren’t going to be affected by the main issues truckers face: being exhausted, facing time pressure, and irregular scheduling.
Didn't they prove that ?Tesla?'s self-driving computers would often automatically disconnect Autopilot just before a crash so that "technically" the crash didn't count as an Autopilot crash? I just don't trust Musk or any of his companies to be operating in any kind of ethical manner.
The short answer is no. The NHTSB found that autopilot disengaged shortly before some crashes, yes. But it doesn't always happen, there are a variety of potential explanations, and the NHTSB never suggested that theory, it was all secondary commentators. Anything is possible but "proven" is way way overstating things.
I don’t think automation is generally a bad thing. We couldn’t have modern technology without automation. As a software engineer it would require too much cognitive dissonance if I didn’t believe in automation.
Perhaps Tesla wishes that one day. But the electric engine does not cause automation. The electric engine is necessary to stop pollution of the air.
What I really interested in is technical nuances, like time to charge, weight of the semi, is 500 miles for a fully loaded track or empty one, etc. etc.
Well, a diesel semi truck seems to get about 5 mpg when full, and 10 when empty. 80k lb full, 32k empty. Tank has on the order of 360 gallons. So a range of 1,800 and 3,200 miles.
That one I dug in to is on the larger side, but that tells us that even if that 500 miles is fully loaded, it's on the smaller side. If that 500 miles is empty, that means the actual range is probably 250 miles or less.
Somebody with more time could do the math to figure out how much battery is needed to match that range. Then work with an assumption of say a 500kw charger. And an approximate weight for said battery.
Which just goes further to show how weird it seems (to me) that they designed and are marketing this for long-haul trucking and not for local trucking where the starting and stopping would seem to make electric trucks ideal. Maybe I'm missing something.
500 mile is long distance that would be useful for many delivery. However, I have read that the longest distance trucking is only 17-25% of all trucking. Therefore, this may be useful in stopping pollution emissions of 75% of trucking.
In theory a pure EV freight truck would be great...if all of our energy sources are green.
As-is it'd be just as good, if not better, to convert all fleets to use methane like garbage trucks.
Especially if it was a hybrid engine.
Even without renewables in the mix, most power plants are not going to emit as many greenhouses per KW/h. Beyond that electric motors are way more efficient than internal combustion. Replacing all diesel trucks with electric may not remove all greenhouse gasses immediately but it will still be a massive reduction. In the meanwhile major garbage handling companies like Republic Services are replacing their garbage truck fleets with electric models!
Powerplants are just doing centralized internal combustion. Emissions may be lower because centralized, but then you also have line losses.
There is a reason a gas stove is more efficient than a traditional electric burner or baseboard. Even though the electric baseboards are 100% efficient.
To be clear, not opposed to electric trucks (just Tesla). Mostly just skeptical of Tesla claims.
Garbage trucks are among the best candidates for replacement because of short hauls with exponentially more stop/go. Semitrucks are primarily highway, where ICE excels.
Some of the power plants are combustion, and some of the power plants are solar panel. Therefore, on average, the total power plant electricity emission will be less than combustion emission on trucks. I speculate, but I think that the power line does not lose enough energy to defeat that.
What is the reason to use methane garbage trucks? The gas explodes and pollutes the air.
Methane (Natural Gas) produces much less CO2 relative to diesel/gas. So automatic win relative to those.
Landfills burn off Methane as a waste product. Hence why many garbage trucks converted to Methane, it was pure win.
My wording was unclear: Garbage trucks represent the best-possible use case for EV trucks, right up there with mail and package delivery. EVs are at their best in city traffic, but for highway driving at highway distances, hybrids punch quite well. Esp if we could deploy hybrids 3x faster. At least until nuclear/solar/wind/etc is 100% of new energy.
Typical line loss is on the order of 10-20% IIRC.
Burning natural gas releases less CO2 than other sources, but the transportation and storage leaks enough that it actually has a similar effect as coal. Lost coal is just rocks. Lost natural gas is worse than CO2.
There are a number of misconceptions in your response. For one, gas burners are actually dramatically less efficient than a regular electric resistance range. A quick search says that electric is 70-75% efficient compared to 30-40 with gas.
You’re getting a bit confused about efficiency of motors versus the efficiency of the car. EVs - including PHEVs (hybrids) - have regenerative breaking and that’s what makes them ideal for start and stop. But I’m just talking about go force - X KW/h will give you Y force that makes you go forward. Internal combustion is very inefficient and most engines peak at around 40% efficiency. That is made worse because that’s only at a specific RPM, which the engine is rarely ever at. They also have losses from idling. Electric motors don’t waste any energy to idle and they are 80-90% efficient.
This actually isn't true anymore, EVs are lower emitters in almost all situations. Unless your electricity is coming from a dirty coal plant or a Diesel generator out back, it's not going to be worse for the environment than a traditional ICE car.... Maybe if it's a very efficient hybrid.
I don't know a ton about it but I wouldn't just assume that electric motors are governed by the same amount of efficiency losses due to weight.
Electric drive trains are far more efficient end to end, and also get to take advantage of regenerative braking to recover even more energy. Some light research suggests only a 15-25% loss in range in a fully loaded electric 18-wheeler versus empty, as opposed to a diesel 18-wheelers' 30-45% range losses with an equivalent load.
I believe the next new model name will be “Car™”.
Meh, at least it's not as childish as the models S,3,X,Y.
oh god, i never realized that was a thing. TIL. that makes me hate them more than i already do
So... about "SpaceX"....
Z0h.
My.
Donkey.
Keep in mind that the Model 3 was originally named the Model E….
I’m pretty sure “semi” fits right in on the list of puerile names.