I watched that entire video. I’ve gone back to Minecraft throughout the years, every so often, in order to scratch that itch. The period that I really was invested in it however, was between the...
I watched that entire video.
I’ve gone back to Minecraft throughout the years, every so often, in order to scratch that itch.
The period that I really was invested in it however, was between the second half of 2010 and the first half of 2011. I was on a server (the owner of which is a member here, funny coincidence), and I played almost every evening, going around building stuff. That was fun.
As more and more of these RPG mechanics kept being added to the game, it became less and less interesting to me.
Over the years, I made at least a handful of serious attempts at “playing through” the game and experiencing all of the new mechanics that had been added.
But man, I never even got close to beginning to experience them, because by then I had always spent hours of grinding to set up a base near a town. I also inevitably get overwhelmed with all the steps (some of which require an insane investment of time), necessary to progress in the game. I don’t even find the combat appealing. It’s stiff and punishing at best, frustrating at worst.
My biggest pet peeve is that, in a game about exploring a supposedly infinite, progressively-generated world, there is no built-in fast-travel mechanic, like BOTW’s shrines, or something similar.
On that server that I played in back in 2010/2011, we used a mod called “Runecraft”, which included a mechanic that allowed you to literally build teleporters and waypoints, and using materials that you could gather practically right away. I loved it so much! It honestly may have ruined the game for me. It made exploring the world and building outposts at points of interest possible (all connected by a hub that you could choose to build), and made the game just more fun for me. Without that, I have to rely on coordinates or whatever else there is, or use teleportation commands, which feel like a cheat. There are some other fast-travel mods out there, but they’re all bad. Fast-travel should be obtainable from the start, like in BOTW.
At the end of the day though, the problem is me. For me, Minecraft is about mining and crafting (duh), and building. I never cared for the survival aspect, the combat, the RPG mechanics, none of that stuff. It feels out of place. But unfortunately, it’s almost made front and center now. And so, no matter how many times I go back, I will only mine and build for a little while (I always turn structures off, by the way), scratch that itch, and then go another few months without touching the game.
I think once Microsoft bought the game, they really missed the mark on what was interesting for me about the game. I always, like you, loved building a base, designing new mechanisms, automating...
I think once Microsoft bought the game, they really missed the mark on what was interesting for me about the game.
I always, like you, loved building a base, designing new mechanisms, automating stuff. I liked designing sheep farms, redstone powered mine cart systems, monster harvesting machines and so on. I wish the game had gone further into that direction instead of the RPG direction. There are tons of games that do RPG stuff better that have actually decent combat, stories, and immersive environment, none of which have been Minecraft's strong suits.
I wonder if the fact that every kid in the developed world is (was) obsessed with Minecraft has something to do with that. I honestly don't know what aspect of the game kids mostly engage with, so I couldn't really speculate.
I have a 7 year old who is becoming really engrossed in Minecraft, so I have that perspective on what the kids she plays with are engaged in, and what she likes. She really enjoys creative mode,...
I honestly don't know what aspect of the game kids mostly engage with, so I couldn't really speculate.
I have a 7 year old who is becoming really engrossed in Minecraft, so I have that perspective on what the kids she plays with are engaged in, and what she likes. She really enjoys creative mode, building bases, making up her own version of palaces and locations that she is reading about in books. There are older siblings of her friends who give some limited teasing that she's not playing in survival, but it's not in a way that's big enough to make any impact on her. There is also a fierce community aspect to this that is interesting to see. She really, really wants to share these creations with others, she wants to tell everyone about what they mean to her, how they function, and what characters they were built for. Being able to log into a server with her friends and show them this makes it even stronger. I am starting to think the "TikTok" drive to share everything is tied into this, because there were kids streaming their reactions to parts of the Minecraft movie while we were there. And they seemed to have certain things to cheer together and do in unison during a movie that has only been out for 2 weeks, in the way the Rocky Horror has built up over decades. Maybe it really is an innate social drive that we all have. This perpetually online generation is tapping into it even with servers on Minecraft. But my daughter has never posted on TikTok or Instagram or Youtube, it just seems like she gets more out of an experience if it's shared with others. I can kind of understand it, but it's almost like it's something that was shut down in myself from a young age from being surrounded by disinterest; and having very few people who shared my passions as a kid.
I think Minecraft's success here is that they have so many different modes that they can appeal to wildly different audiences. If you want to just create, you can do that. It's really beneficial for kids who would almost always die in combat without help. Having different devices and control schemes is also part of it. She has taken to the touchscreen interface in a way that I never could. I even tried starting her with a controller first, then keyboard and mouse, but there was just too much for her to learn to get comfortable with those. It's interesting to see because from my perspective controller or keyboard are vastly easier to manage, but I have decades of muscle memory with them that make them feel like ancillary appendages to me.
Writing about this has made me think that I should probably look into building a family server where we can play together and I can control the difficulty for her with mods. I think she would enjoy the exploration aspect that comes with not having infinite resources in your inventory, but if she got killed and lost everything she would want to stop playing for good.
FYI, there is a gamerule that might be of interest to you here (/gamerule keepinventory true). I have used it with my kids when they were younger to take some of the pressure off of dying in game.
I think she would enjoy the exploration aspect that comes with not having infinite resources in your inventory, but if she got killed and lost everything she would want to stop playing for good.
FYI, there is a gamerule that might be of interest to you here (/gamerule keepinventory true). I have used it with my kids when they were younger to take some of the pressure off of dying in game.
A cornerstone of any world of mine is a series of long connecting tunnels with Redstone minecarts in them. I would build multistory fortresses, turn villages into castle towns, create outposts on...
A cornerstone of any world of mine is a series of long connecting tunnels with Redstone minecarts in them. I would build multistory fortresses, turn villages into castle towns, create outposts on tops of snowy peaks and connect them all with my subterranean transit system.
The massive quarries I'd excavated gave me more building materials and once my pockets were full, new edifices popped up (subway stops) and I would explore every outward.
Outside of building castle gates and hidden doors, redstone was essentially only for building minecart tracks. I had tried in the past to build various farms, watched tutorials and so on, and they never clicked. I'd prefer to setup an actual farm, complete with a big red barn and individual stalls full of hay for the animals than I would recreate a Tyson factory.
I do enjoy the survival mechanic and the combat to a degree but that degree is that they both incentives control of the environment. I build a large farm at one of my bases and have enough bread to last me months but I still had to create an area to do that. Going back and seeing my old, hard scrabble crops growing on the side of a random river while I take my minecart to my acre of wheat feels like an accomplishment in the way no 'achievement' can. When I've built a nether portal in the side of the mountain guarded by automatic doors with a nether brick lava feature adorning the entrance that you can see from my castle tower at night it makes going to bed in that room feel like being a master of the natural world.
Basically, I feel you. Progress in Minecraft is very limited. There's only four main tiers of weapons and armor! Progress is also limitless. Have you really lived until you have a complete fortress with tunnel network in the nether, including a subway that goes straight through a lava lake?
Currently dipped my toes back into Minecraft again and I'm in the process of building a seven story underground tower on a cliff with multiple balconies and I tunneled out straight into a waterfall. Can you imagine that? I knocked out the rock and was perfectly aligned with it! Of course, I kept it and scrapped any plans for building a balcony there. To paraphrase Hank Hill, why would anyone fight the ender dragon when you can just build bases?
A small sample size but kids I know who play Minecraft these days are playing bed wars or stuff.
You can also exploit the nether and ice for traveling quickly too. Every block you walk in the nether is multiple blocks in the overworld, with a predictable ratio, so you can create two portals,...
You can also exploit the nether and ice for traveling quickly too. Every block you walk in the nether is multiple blocks in the overworld, with a predictable ratio, so you can create two portals, and you basically have the Ways from the Wheel of Time books.
Minecarts are good for AFK travel, but, at least when I last played, placing boats on strips of ice blocks lets you "drive" them at absurd speeds.
To me, travel infrastructure and automatic farms were among the more interesting things to build.
I had a nether network. Get off at the outpost interchange and you can enter the nether safe house and, if you like, ride that to another random nether portal that opens up into another part of...
I had a nether network. Get off at the outpost interchange and you can enter the nether safe house and, if you like, ride that to another random nether portal that opens up into another part of the world.
Essentially, I never engaged with Minecraft deep enough to want to min max anything. I strip mined the inside of a mountain to get enough stone to build my castle town walls. I've had hundreds of levels of experience and never enchanted anything.
I totally get why people would just want better fast-travel support out of the box, but for me the appeal is that it gives us, the players, the opportunity to build it ourselves. For example, on...
I totally get why people would just want better fast-travel support out of the box, but for me the appeal is that it gives us, the players, the opportunity to build it ourselves. For example, on the tildes mc server we've got a very nice mix of rail, boat, and nether portal networks setup to speed up movement across the world. Now if we could just get rail networks that could passively traverse through nether portals...
We ran a few more servers over the years. I think it got slower between 2013-2016 and practically stopped after that. But we tried various mod stacks (as well as mods I wrote myself) and it was...
We ran a few more servers over the years. I think it got slower between 2013-2016 and practically stopped after that. But we tried various mod stacks (as well as mods I wrote myself) and it was plenty fun. The video makes this point repeatedly - Mojang has this weird organically grown mishmash of features that don't always work very well together, and in some cases have never made much sense, and fans have to "fix" their experience themselves.
Regarding the video, which I largely agree with, there are two key things I'd like to comment on:
First: I think the devs might respond to some of the criticism in the video (not all of it) by pointing out that the author is failing to account for farms and automation. Some hard or repetitive tasks are "supposed" to be automated as you progress through the game, even in survival; If you have some nice farms and automation pipelines then recovery gets faster and you can get more of everything without so much time and effort.
Which is why it's too bad farms in Minecraft (vanilla) are, in my opinion, so damn janky and confusing. Every high profile simulation game in the same vein that came later just does it better. I shouldn't have to copy a youtube video step by step to get something to work just because there are fifteen different obscure redstone activation and tick priority rules I need to be aware of otherwise.
Second: The key issue that ties this bouquet of nonsense together is - and I think every experienced Minecraft player might agree? - the horrible inventory system. It makes several appearances in the video, when the author points out you need to cram it full of potions, carry multiple stacks of arrows and stop to place your shulker boxes on the ground to move things around when you're trying to do something else. Seriously, isn't it time they just... redesign this? Completely? The capacity limits and lack of QoL features are insane. They have never been fun, but now there are a thousand times more crap to collect and carry and you still have to deal with the same inventory nonsense?
They're not the same. Shulker boxes effectively let you carry multiple inventories of cargo. It still sharply limits your inventory though, since you can't retrieve an item without going to a safe...
They have never been fun, but now there are a thousand times more crap to collect and carry and you still have to deal with the same inventory nonsense?
They're not the same. Shulker boxes effectively let you carry multiple inventories of cargo. It still sharply limits your inventory though, since you can't retrieve an item without going to a safe place and plonking down the chest to access its contents then picking the chest up again.
The inventory was a fundamentally good idea, as originally designed - when going spelunking, you had to choose what to bring, keeping in mind that the more you bring, the less space you have to store ore you find, so you want to pack light. Bringing less e.g. porkchops is risky though, and if you're underprepared you'll have to turn back early (wasting those empty inventory slots you saved!) or risk it all on getting just a bit more. Shulkers kind of neutralise that, although I maintain that hunger/regen and porkchop 64stacks killed that a long time ago anyway. Before hunger, you would be fine if you ran out of food, you were fine but couldn't afford to lose basically any health.
When it was originally designed there were only a handful of block types in the game - now you have essentially the same grid for thousands of blocks and items, and while shulker boxes "help", I...
When it was originally designed there were only a handful of block types in the game - now you have essentially the same grid for thousands of blocks and items, and while shulker boxes "help", I have tennis elbow. All the clicking and dragging required to organize things around, all the time, makes me want to rip off my arm.
I'm under the impression most people dislike inventory management in games, but more than that, you could easily keep the fundamental effects of capacity limits and upgrades, and even permit moving things around from one inventory to another, while completely eliminating the pain and friction of the grid-based inventory system. I don't think Mojang are necessarily playing 4d chess with the need to place shulker boxes on the ground. I think they just implement the features they think they should in a way they find fun at the time, and no one gives much thought to whether things are implemented in the best possible way after that.
I guess that if automation was was more of a feature rather than a “happy accident” in the game (a lot of it feels to me like it wasn’t intentionally put in there by the developers, but just...
I guess that if automation was was more of a feature rather than a “happy accident” in the game (a lot of it feels to me like it wasn’t intentionally put in there by the developers, but just exploits odd quirks in the game’s “mishmash” of features, like you mentioned), then it would make the late game more accessible for people like me too.
Have you played/looked into Enshrouded? For me, I find it so much more interesting than Minecraft (even though I used to love Minecraft). I've never been the most creative in Minecraft because I...
Have you played/looked into Enshrouded? For me, I find it so much more interesting than Minecraft (even though I used to love Minecraft).
I've never been the most creative in Minecraft because I always felt like I couldn't get anything to look nice unless I found some build instruction video to copy and spent a ton of time on it. And then, as you said, the combat is frustrating.
Enshrouded's crafting is, for me, the best I've found in a game. I'm probably not explaining it the best, but it uses the neighboring "blocks" to sort of smooth out the placement of anything- terrain, walls, etc. It looks great with minimal effort.
And in these areas you craft in, you can also house townsfolk who are required for crafting and some quests. So it feels like it has more purpose.
And the combat doesn't feel secondary - I'd argue you could play the entire game without crafting and still be hooked on it.
Don't let the early access tag scare you away - I've been doing co-op with my partner and we have over 100 hours in it so far. I'd guess we still have another 30-50 hours of story progression left, but I don't know for sure without looking up spoilers. I believe the last major update was at the end of January, and it added an entirely new area.
The “fast travel” mechanic is building minecart tracks in the nether. 8 blocks in the normal world is 1 block in the nether. I will admit that this makes long distance travel difficult until the...
The “fast travel” mechanic is building minecart tracks in the nether. 8 blocks in the normal world is 1 block in the nether. I will admit that this makes long distance travel difficult until the late game.
You have to use Nethertravel! The travel ratio is like 16:1 so you calculate portal placement in the Nether and build highways down there to run from portal to portal. I also played Minecraft...
You have to use Nethertravel! The travel ratio is like 16:1 so you calculate portal placement in the Nether and build highways down there to run from portal to portal.
I also played Minecraft mostly in 2011, coming up with contraptions like double dungeon xp farms and things like Netherhighways was a big part of the fun.
It's 8:1, but yeah it's a major time saver for traveling. And there are ways to get up onto the roof of the nether, which is completely safe from the usual nether dangers and completely...
It's 8:1, but yeah it's a major time saver for traveling. And there are ways to get up onto the roof of the nether, which is completely safe from the usual nether dangers and completely featureless, easy to mark paths between portals however you please.
Right, 8:1. I remember the roof thing, but on my server there were raiders up there in maxed out diamond armor. This was around 2012 I think, I used to be on a little server called MinerApocalypse...
Right, 8:1. I remember the roof thing, but on my server there were raiders up there in maxed out diamond armor. This was around 2012 I think, I used to be on a little server called MinerApocalypse r/minerapocalypse. Fun times.
I recently watched a video that compared Minecraft to Vintage Story and a phrase that really resonated with me was something along the lines of "Minecraft Survival mode is mostly Creative mode...
I recently watched a video that compared Minecraft to Vintage Story and a phrase that really resonated with me was something along the lines of "Minecraft Survival mode is mostly Creative mode with extra steps" meaning that at its core, the game will never stray too far from its pure Sandbox experience in order to make surviving a challenge, and I think that's one of the main reasons for the game's weird development direction.
Speaking of Vintage Story, I very randomly found out about it while scrolling itch.io about a week ago and it has been a breath of fresh air after all these years of playing Minecraft for a few weeks once in a while and giving up because of frustrations like the ones mentioned in OP's video, and I think it's really worth checking out. It's not trying to be a replacement or a "just Minecraft but harder" type of clone, the history is really cool too - some mod developers were fed up with Minecraft's limitations and just created their own game, and over the years it has become a pretty polished and fun experience.
Dang. I can’t believe what I just saw. The looks so much like Minecraft, but a lot more sophisticated. Crazy. Who would have guessed that such a thing exists? Thanks for sharing!
Dang. I can’t believe what I just saw. The looks so much like Minecraft, but a lot more sophisticated. Crazy. Who would have guessed that such a thing exists? Thanks for sharing!
Way back when, a modpack (mod?) called Terrafirmacraft existed, and Vintage Story is heavily inspired by it. In bought a copy ages ago, but it's too grindy for my tastes, and the graphics feel off
Way back when, a modpack (mod?) called Terrafirmacraft existed, and Vintage Story is heavily inspired by it. In bought a copy ages ago, but it's too grindy for my tastes, and the graphics feel off
My favorite thing I've seen about the game is that you can watch your bread rise while it's in the oven. Such a small feature but it seems incredibly immersive!
My favorite thing I've seen about the game is that you can watch your bread rise while it's in the oven. Such a small feature but it seems incredibly immersive!
I think of Vintage Story as "Grown-Up Minecraft," not as a way to disparage Minecraft but it feels like a strange sort of progression. I started a world on "Homo Sapiens" because I didn't like the...
I think of Vintage Story as "Grown-Up Minecraft," not as a way to disparage Minecraft but it feels like a strange sort of progression. I started a world on "Homo Sapiens" because I didn't like the horror stuff and it really scratches the MC itch with none of the overworld complexity, but all of the fun, and I sort of get a little excited when I think about how I'm going to start progressing.
I was playing Luanti (fka: Minetest) with Repixture, which is a bit different but still fun and relatively simple for a stripped down MC-style experience at one point as well. Then I just decided to play 1.7.3b.
I've been wanting to get vintage story for awhile now, the only thing stopping me is already having so many games and not enough time to play them. I love the idea of it and hope to pick it up and...
I've been wanting to get vintage story for awhile now, the only thing stopping me is already having so many games and not enough time to play them.
I love the idea of it and hope to pick it up and get myself a copy of Minecraft as well (my brother took his copy back he gave me back in ~2010).
I've had the itch to get a copy of Minecraft for a while now, and this video made me realize that the Minecraft that I'm interested in would be an older version of the game with some mods and not...
I've had the itch to get a copy of Minecraft for a while now, and this video made me realize that the Minecraft that I'm interested in would be an older version of the game with some mods and not the current game. I've seen some of the mods that "fork" Minecraft's development off an older version which would be appealing, like the Better than Adventure mod.
The last time I played was ~5 years ago after having last played Minecraft a decent amount with some friends in ~2013-2015, and it felt like a completely different game with how many things had changed.
I didn't know they'd added flying to the game, does anyone have any opinions on how that impacts the game?
The great thing about the Java edition is that you can play any version you want, from the past however many years. There are still dedicated 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 servers and modpacks
The great thing about the Java edition is that you can play any version you want, from the past however many years. There are still dedicated 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 servers and modpacks
I heard they still offer those older versions, which is awesome! I believe I spent the most time on Beta 1.7.3 as that was the version that had the mod packs I was playing with my friends after...
I heard they still offer those older versions, which is awesome! I believe I spent the most time on Beta 1.7.3 as that was the version that had the mod packs I was playing with my friends after 1.0 had released.
I wish I had more time to game! I had tried to get my wife in to Minecraft when we first started dating, as she didn't play video games growing up. I'm hoping when our kids are old enough to play that she'll join in as she is very creative, and I'd love to see what she builds.
That last paragraph made me chuckle. I, too, had children because nobody would play Minecraft with me. My oldest is four so it should start paying off any minute.
That last paragraph made me chuckle. I, too, had children because nobody would play Minecraft with me. My oldest is four so it should start paying off any minute.
You can always join us on the unofficial Tildes minecraft server and play in whichever way makes you happy! Everyone has their own unique playstyle, for example @IsildursBane refuses to use elytra...
You can always join us on the unofficial Tildes minecraft server and play in whichever way makes you happy! Everyone has their own unique playstyle, for example @IsildursBane refuses to use elytra altogether and travels everywhere with horses :)
I do occassionally use my elytra. I just have a dedicated room in my house where I store it so it is a dedicated effort to grab it. I use it mainly for moving around in the end. I also have used...
I do occassionally use my elytra. I just have a dedicated room in my house where I store it so it is a dedicated effort to grab it. I use it mainly for moving around in the end. I also have used it in the past for further nether adventures, like heading to the farms near Minty, but I have learned how to bring my horse to the nether roof.
Also, I use other travel options too. It is not strictly horse, but also transit and boats. It really depends on where I am travelling to
I told myself I was going to play like that. No wings, just walking and mass transit. Heck, that was part of the reason I started building the Red Line, but yeah I'm too weak :(
I told myself I was going to play like that. No wings, just walking and mass transit. Heck, that was part of the reason I started building the Red Line, but yeah I'm too weak :(
I kind of had no choice until recently... Using elytra would cause network issues & kick me out of the server because I had a shitty internet connection. Wanna move into my old house? :P
I kind of had no choice until recently... Using elytra would cause network issues & kick me out of the server because I had a shitty internet connection. Wanna move into my old house? :P
When I eventually pick up a copy of Minecraft, I'll take a look! I wish they would do regional pricing for Minecraft as It's not too expensive when I was earning USD ($30) but after moving to...
When I eventually pick up a copy of Minecraft, I'll take a look! I wish they would do regional pricing for Minecraft as It's not too expensive when I was earning USD ($30) but after moving to Malaysia and earning local currency it is a bigger expense for something that isn't really needed (current conversion puts it at 132.44 MYR, for perspective that's enough for vegetables for a couple of weeks at the rate my family eats).
Once my kids are old enough, I'm sure I'll get copies for the family and have us all play together.
It's still the great game it once was, even more so if you can still gather a few friends to play it with (see my other comment in this thread for something that might interest you). I believe...
It's still the great game it once was, even more so if you can still gather a few friends to play it with (see my other comment in this thread for something that might interest you). I believe flying was added because of other new features in the game, I won't spoil it for you but you will need to fly a lot after beating the Ender Dragon. It does make the game a lot easier once you can do it, but it's not something that breaks the flow necessarily because of how late-game of an item it's supposed to be.
Also you're gonna have a heart attack when you hear about Happy Ghasts.
Didn't try Better than Adventure but a year ago I set up a modpack on a server with a similar goal, the Better Beta modpack. Me and my friends can confirm that it was a fun experience: brought...
Didn't try Better than Adventure but a year ago I set up a modpack on a server with a similar goal, the Better Beta modpack. Me and my friends can confirm that it was a fun experience: brought back the oldschool gameplay incentives (exploration) and removed the RPG elements (exp and grinding) while also giving us the chance to check out the newer Minecraft features. Add custom terrain generation, Distant Horizons and some shaders if that is up your alley and you end up with a neat mix of old and new!
Just wanted to say thanks! I did not know there were mods for newer versions that brought old terrain gen back. I ended up going with 1:1 Beta for my goals, which was "as close to 1.7.3 as...
Just wanted to say thanks! I did not know there were mods for newer versions that brought old terrain gen back. I ended up going with 1:1 Beta for my goals, which was "as close to 1.7.3 as possible, on a newer engine" (because 1.7.3 isn't the best experience in terms of technology).
That looks interesting, if I do pick up Minecraft I'll have to check that out! I'm guessing this will happen in a few years if not sooner once my kids are old enough that we start introducing...
That looks interesting, if I do pick up Minecraft I'll have to check that out! I'm guessing this will happen in a few years if not sooner once my kids are old enough that we start introducing video games to them. I foresee a family Minecraft server cropping up at some point.
I really struggled to watch that video, I couldn't make it past a minute and 30 seconds before I had to switch it off. Can someone give a summary of the video please? EDIT: I used this AI...
I really struggled to watch that video, I couldn't make it past a minute and 30 seconds before I had to switch it off.
Minecraft's Problems Aren't Just the New Features - Summary
Main Topic: The video discusses how Minecraft's core systems, particularly older ones, are flawed and haven't evolved to keep pace with the game's progression, leading to underutilized features and frustrating gameplay experiences.
Key Points:
Useless/Underwhelming Systems: Many systems in Minecraft, like brewing, tipped arrows, the mace, and the trident, are either useless, underwhelming, or poorly implemented.
Brewing: Most potions have niche uses and short durations, making them impractical. They also don't stack, further limiting their usefulness.
Tipped Arrows: Tipped arrows are difficult to obtain in large quantities, and their effects are often useless or detrimental, requiring players to carry multiple sets.
Mace: The mace is difficult to obtain and situational, making it a gimmick rather than a useful weapon.
Trident: The trident is rare, has low durability, and its enchantments are either useless or outclassed by swords and bows.
Advancements: Most advancements are random tasks that don't contribute to progression and are poorly presented in-game.
Netherite: Obtaining Netherite is a tedious grind, and its benefits over diamond are minimal, especially with mending.
Durability System: The durability system is outdated and doesn't account for the time investment required to obtain and enchant high-tier gear. Mending is essentially mandatory to bypass the flawed durability system.
Drop Inventory on Death: Dropping the entire inventory on death is a punishing mechanic that doesn't fit a creative sandbox game, especially when losing late-game gear can set players back hours.
Lack of RPG Depth: Minecraft has surface-level RPG mechanics that lack depth and corresponding challenges to warrant their use.
Highlights:
The video criticizes Mojang's design philosophy, suggesting they prioritize avoiding risk over improving the game.
The video proposes removing durability from Netherite items and implementing a "soulbound" enchantment to prevent players from losing valuable gear on death.
The video argues that Minecraft needs more complex challenges and better RPG mechanics to make its systems more engaging and meaningful.
I watched that entire video.
I’ve gone back to Minecraft throughout the years, every so often, in order to scratch that itch.
The period that I really was invested in it however, was between the second half of 2010 and the first half of 2011. I was on a server (the owner of which is a member here, funny coincidence), and I played almost every evening, going around building stuff. That was fun.
As more and more of these RPG mechanics kept being added to the game, it became less and less interesting to me.
Over the years, I made at least a handful of serious attempts at “playing through” the game and experiencing all of the new mechanics that had been added.
But man, I never even got close to beginning to experience them, because by then I had always spent hours of grinding to set up a base near a town. I also inevitably get overwhelmed with all the steps (some of which require an insane investment of time), necessary to progress in the game. I don’t even find the combat appealing. It’s stiff and punishing at best, frustrating at worst.
My biggest pet peeve is that, in a game about exploring a supposedly infinite, progressively-generated world, there is no built-in fast-travel mechanic, like BOTW’s shrines, or something similar.
On that server that I played in back in 2010/2011, we used a mod called “Runecraft”, which included a mechanic that allowed you to literally build teleporters and waypoints, and using materials that you could gather practically right away. I loved it so much! It honestly may have ruined the game for me. It made exploring the world and building outposts at points of interest possible (all connected by a hub that you could choose to build), and made the game just more fun for me. Without that, I have to rely on coordinates or whatever else there is, or use teleportation commands, which feel like a cheat. There are some other fast-travel mods out there, but they’re all bad. Fast-travel should be obtainable from the start, like in BOTW.
At the end of the day though, the problem is me. For me, Minecraft is about mining and crafting (duh), and building. I never cared for the survival aspect, the combat, the RPG mechanics, none of that stuff. It feels out of place. But unfortunately, it’s almost made front and center now. And so, no matter how many times I go back, I will only mine and build for a little while (I always turn structures off, by the way), scratch that itch, and then go another few months without touching the game.
I think once Microsoft bought the game, they really missed the mark on what was interesting for me about the game.
I always, like you, loved building a base, designing new mechanisms, automating stuff. I liked designing sheep farms, redstone powered mine cart systems, monster harvesting machines and so on. I wish the game had gone further into that direction instead of the RPG direction. There are tons of games that do RPG stuff better that have actually decent combat, stories, and immersive environment, none of which have been Minecraft's strong suits.
I wonder if the fact that every kid in the developed world is (was) obsessed with Minecraft has something to do with that. I honestly don't know what aspect of the game kids mostly engage with, so I couldn't really speculate.
I have a 7 year old who is becoming really engrossed in Minecraft, so I have that perspective on what the kids she plays with are engaged in, and what she likes. She really enjoys creative mode, building bases, making up her own version of palaces and locations that she is reading about in books. There are older siblings of her friends who give some limited teasing that she's not playing in survival, but it's not in a way that's big enough to make any impact on her. There is also a fierce community aspect to this that is interesting to see. She really, really wants to share these creations with others, she wants to tell everyone about what they mean to her, how they function, and what characters they were built for. Being able to log into a server with her friends and show them this makes it even stronger. I am starting to think the "TikTok" drive to share everything is tied into this, because there were kids streaming their reactions to parts of the Minecraft movie while we were there. And they seemed to have certain things to cheer together and do in unison during a movie that has only been out for 2 weeks, in the way the Rocky Horror has built up over decades. Maybe it really is an innate social drive that we all have. This perpetually online generation is tapping into it even with servers on Minecraft. But my daughter has never posted on TikTok or Instagram or Youtube, it just seems like she gets more out of an experience if it's shared with others. I can kind of understand it, but it's almost like it's something that was shut down in myself from a young age from being surrounded by disinterest; and having very few people who shared my passions as a kid.
I think Minecraft's success here is that they have so many different modes that they can appeal to wildly different audiences. If you want to just create, you can do that. It's really beneficial for kids who would almost always die in combat without help. Having different devices and control schemes is also part of it. She has taken to the touchscreen interface in a way that I never could. I even tried starting her with a controller first, then keyboard and mouse, but there was just too much for her to learn to get comfortable with those. It's interesting to see because from my perspective controller or keyboard are vastly easier to manage, but I have decades of muscle memory with them that make them feel like ancillary appendages to me.
Writing about this has made me think that I should probably look into building a family server where we can play together and I can control the difficulty for her with mods. I think she would enjoy the exploration aspect that comes with not having infinite resources in your inventory, but if she got killed and lost everything she would want to stop playing for good.
FYI, there is a gamerule that might be of interest to you here (/gamerule keepinventory true). I have used it with my kids when they were younger to take some of the pressure off of dying in game.
A cornerstone of any world of mine is a series of long connecting tunnels with Redstone minecarts in them. I would build multistory fortresses, turn villages into castle towns, create outposts on tops of snowy peaks and connect them all with my subterranean transit system.
The massive quarries I'd excavated gave me more building materials and once my pockets were full, new edifices popped up (subway stops) and I would explore every outward.
Outside of building castle gates and hidden doors, redstone was essentially only for building minecart tracks. I had tried in the past to build various farms, watched tutorials and so on, and they never clicked. I'd prefer to setup an actual farm, complete with a big red barn and individual stalls full of hay for the animals than I would recreate a Tyson factory.
I do enjoy the survival mechanic and the combat to a degree but that degree is that they both incentives control of the environment. I build a large farm at one of my bases and have enough bread to last me months but I still had to create an area to do that. Going back and seeing my old, hard scrabble crops growing on the side of a random river while I take my minecart to my acre of wheat feels like an accomplishment in the way no 'achievement' can. When I've built a nether portal in the side of the mountain guarded by automatic doors with a nether brick lava feature adorning the entrance that you can see from my castle tower at night it makes going to bed in that room feel like being a master of the natural world.
Basically, I feel you. Progress in Minecraft is very limited. There's only four main tiers of weapons and armor! Progress is also limitless. Have you really lived until you have a complete fortress with tunnel network in the nether, including a subway that goes straight through a lava lake?
Currently dipped my toes back into Minecraft again and I'm in the process of building a seven story underground tower on a cliff with multiple balconies and I tunneled out straight into a waterfall. Can you imagine that? I knocked out the rock and was perfectly aligned with it! Of course, I kept it and scrapped any plans for building a balcony there. To paraphrase Hank Hill, why would anyone fight the ender dragon when you can just build bases?
A small sample size but kids I know who play Minecraft these days are playing bed wars or stuff.
You can also exploit the nether and ice for traveling quickly too. Every block you walk in the nether is multiple blocks in the overworld, with a predictable ratio, so you can create two portals, and you basically have the Ways from the Wheel of Time books.
Minecarts are good for AFK travel, but, at least when I last played, placing boats on strips of ice blocks lets you "drive" them at absurd speeds.
To me, travel infrastructure and automatic farms were among the more interesting things to build.
I had a nether network. Get off at the outpost interchange and you can enter the nether safe house and, if you like, ride that to another random nether portal that opens up into another part of the world.
Essentially, I never engaged with Minecraft deep enough to want to min max anything. I strip mined the inside of a mountain to get enough stone to build my castle town walls. I've had hundreds of levels of experience and never enchanted anything.
I totally get why people would just want better fast-travel support out of the box, but for me the appeal is that it gives us, the players, the opportunity to build it ourselves. For example, on the tildes mc server we've got a very nice mix of rail, boat, and nether portal networks setup to speed up movement across the world. Now if we could just get rail networks that could passively traverse through nether portals...
That should be in the game as of Minecraft 1.21. :)
Nice! No idea how I missed that because I've wanted it for so long :)
We ran a few more servers over the years. I think it got slower between 2013-2016 and practically stopped after that. But we tried various mod stacks (as well as mods I wrote myself) and it was plenty fun. The video makes this point repeatedly - Mojang has this weird organically grown mishmash of features that don't always work very well together, and in some cases have never made much sense, and fans have to "fix" their experience themselves.
Regarding the video, which I largely agree with, there are two key things I'd like to comment on:
First: I think the devs might respond to some of the criticism in the video (not all of it) by pointing out that the author is failing to account for farms and automation. Some hard or repetitive tasks are "supposed" to be automated as you progress through the game, even in survival; If you have some nice farms and automation pipelines then recovery gets faster and you can get more of everything without so much time and effort.
Which is why it's too bad farms in Minecraft (vanilla) are, in my opinion, so damn janky and confusing. Every high profile simulation game in the same vein that came later just does it better. I shouldn't have to copy a youtube video step by step to get something to work just because there are fifteen different obscure redstone activation and tick priority rules I need to be aware of otherwise.
Second: The key issue that ties this bouquet of nonsense together is - and I think every experienced Minecraft player might agree? - the horrible inventory system. It makes several appearances in the video, when the author points out you need to cram it full of potions, carry multiple stacks of arrows and stop to place your shulker boxes on the ground to move things around when you're trying to do something else. Seriously, isn't it time they just... redesign this? Completely? The capacity limits and lack of QoL features are insane. They have never been fun, but now there are a thousand times more crap to collect and carry and you still have to deal with the same inventory nonsense?
They're not the same. Shulker boxes effectively let you carry multiple inventories of cargo. It still sharply limits your inventory though, since you can't retrieve an item without going to a safe place and plonking down the chest to access its contents then picking the chest up again.
The inventory was a fundamentally good idea, as originally designed - when going spelunking, you had to choose what to bring, keeping in mind that the more you bring, the less space you have to store ore you find, so you want to pack light. Bringing less e.g. porkchops is risky though, and if you're underprepared you'll have to turn back early (wasting those empty inventory slots you saved!) or risk it all on getting just a bit more. Shulkers kind of neutralise that, although I maintain that hunger/regen and porkchop 64stacks killed that a long time ago anyway. Before hunger, you would be fine if you ran out of food, you were fine but couldn't afford to lose basically any health.
When it was originally designed there were only a handful of block types in the game - now you have essentially the same grid for thousands of blocks and items, and while shulker boxes "help", I have tennis elbow. All the clicking and dragging required to organize things around, all the time, makes me want to rip off my arm.
I'm under the impression most people dislike inventory management in games, but more than that, you could easily keep the fundamental effects of capacity limits and upgrades, and even permit moving things around from one inventory to another, while completely eliminating the pain and friction of the grid-based inventory system. I don't think Mojang are necessarily playing 4d chess with the need to place shulker boxes on the ground. I think they just implement the features they think they should in a way they find fun at the time, and no one gives much thought to whether things are implemented in the best possible way after that.
I guess that if automation was was more of a feature rather than a “happy accident” in the game (a lot of it feels to me like it wasn’t intentionally put in there by the developers, but just exploits odd quirks in the game’s “mishmash” of features, like you mentioned), then it would make the late game more accessible for people like me too.
Minecraft + factorio go
Have you played/looked into Enshrouded? For me, I find it so much more interesting than Minecraft (even though I used to love Minecraft).
I've never been the most creative in Minecraft because I always felt like I couldn't get anything to look nice unless I found some build instruction video to copy and spent a ton of time on it. And then, as you said, the combat is frustrating.
Enshrouded's crafting is, for me, the best I've found in a game. I'm probably not explaining it the best, but it uses the neighboring "blocks" to sort of smooth out the placement of anything- terrain, walls, etc. It looks great with minimal effort.
And in these areas you craft in, you can also house townsfolk who are required for crafting and some quests. So it feels like it has more purpose.
And the combat doesn't feel secondary - I'd argue you could play the entire game without crafting and still be hooked on it.
Don't let the early access tag scare you away - I've been doing co-op with my partner and we have over 100 hours in it so far. I'd guess we still have another 30-50 hours of story progression left, but I don't know for sure without looking up spoilers. I believe the last major update was at the end of January, and it added an entirely new area.
The “fast travel” mechanic is building minecart tracks in the nether. 8 blocks in the normal world is 1 block in the nether. I will admit that this makes long distance travel difficult until the late game.
I realize they're mods, but I love them both: Waystones and any of the maps that allow teleporting. :)
You have to use Nethertravel! The travel ratio is like 16:1 so you calculate portal placement in the Nether and build highways down there to run from portal to portal.
I also played Minecraft mostly in 2011, coming up with contraptions like double dungeon xp farms and things like Netherhighways was a big part of the fun.
It's 8:1, but yeah it's a major time saver for traveling. And there are ways to get up onto the roof of the nether, which is completely safe from the usual nether dangers and completely featureless, easy to mark paths between portals however you please.
Right, 8:1. I remember the roof thing, but on my server there were raiders up there in maxed out diamond armor. This was around 2012 I think, I used to be on a little server called MinerApocalypse r/minerapocalypse. Fun times.
I recently watched a video that compared Minecraft to Vintage Story and a phrase that really resonated with me was something along the lines of "Minecraft Survival mode is mostly Creative mode with extra steps" meaning that at its core, the game will never stray too far from its pure Sandbox experience in order to make surviving a challenge, and I think that's one of the main reasons for the game's weird development direction.
Speaking of Vintage Story, I very randomly found out about it while scrolling itch.io about a week ago and it has been a breath of fresh air after all these years of playing Minecraft for a few weeks once in a while and giving up because of frustrations like the ones mentioned in OP's video, and I think it's really worth checking out. It's not trying to be a replacement or a "just Minecraft but harder" type of clone, the history is really cool too - some mod developers were fed up with Minecraft's limitations and just created their own game, and over the years it has become a pretty polished and fun experience.
Dang. I can’t believe what I just saw. The looks so much like Minecraft, but a lot more sophisticated. Crazy. Who would have guessed that such a thing exists? Thanks for sharing!
Way back when, a modpack (mod?) called Terrafirmacraft existed, and Vintage Story is heavily inspired by it. In bought a copy ages ago, but it's too grindy for my tastes, and the graphics feel off
My favorite thing I've seen about the game is that you can watch your bread rise while it's in the oven. Such a small feature but it seems incredibly immersive!
It does look really cool, and priced very reasonably as well ($22). Now I know where I'll go next time I have the urge for this sort of thing.
I think of Vintage Story as "Grown-Up Minecraft," not as a way to disparage Minecraft but it feels like a strange sort of progression. I started a world on "Homo Sapiens" because I didn't like the horror stuff and it really scratches the MC itch with none of the overworld complexity, but all of the fun, and I sort of get a little excited when I think about how I'm going to start progressing.
I was playing Luanti (fka: Minetest) with Repixture, which is a bit different but still fun and relatively simple for a stripped down MC-style experience at one point as well. Then I just decided to play 1.7.3b.
I've been wanting to get vintage story for awhile now, the only thing stopping me is already having so many games and not enough time to play them.
I love the idea of it and hope to pick it up and get myself a copy of Minecraft as well (my brother took his copy back he gave me back in ~2010).
Thanks for the recommendation!
I liked what I saw and now some friends and I are going to play this weekend.
I've had the itch to get a copy of Minecraft for a while now, and this video made me realize that the Minecraft that I'm interested in would be an older version of the game with some mods and not the current game. I've seen some of the mods that "fork" Minecraft's development off an older version which would be appealing, like the Better than Adventure mod.
The last time I played was ~5 years ago after having last played Minecraft a decent amount with some friends in ~2013-2015, and it felt like a completely different game with how many things had changed.
I didn't know they'd added flying to the game, does anyone have any opinions on how that impacts the game?
The great thing about the Java edition is that you can play any version you want, from the past however many years. There are still dedicated 1.7.10 and 1.12.2 servers and modpacks
I heard they still offer those older versions, which is awesome! I believe I spent the most time on Beta 1.7.3 as that was the version that had the mod packs I was playing with my friends after 1.0 had released.
I wish I had more time to game! I had tried to get my wife in to Minecraft when we first started dating, as she didn't play video games growing up. I'm hoping when our kids are old enough to play that she'll join in as she is very creative, and I'd love to see what she builds.
That last paragraph made me chuckle. I, too, had children because nobody would play Minecraft with me. My oldest is four so it should start paying off any minute.
You can always join us on the unofficial Tildes minecraft server and play in whichever way makes you happy! Everyone has their own unique playstyle, for example @IsildursBane refuses to use elytra altogether and travels everywhere with horses :)
I do occassionally use my elytra. I just have a dedicated room in my house where I store it so it is a dedicated effort to grab it. I use it mainly for moving around in the end. I also have used it in the past for further nether adventures, like heading to the farms near Minty, but I have learned how to bring my horse to the nether roof.
Also, I use other travel options too. It is not strictly horse, but also transit and boats. It really depends on where I am travelling to
I told myself I was going to play like that. No wings, just walking and mass transit. Heck, that was part of the reason I started building the Red Line, but yeah I'm too weak :(
I kind of had no choice until recently... Using elytra would cause network issues & kick me out of the server because I had a shitty internet connection. Wanna move into my old house? :P
I never learned how to get an elytra - I avoid combat and nether and absolutely avoid the end. heh. Thus, I walk or ride :)
You aren't alone. I also told myself I would not use elytra, but eventually did succumb to the allure of flight. :D
When I eventually pick up a copy of Minecraft, I'll take a look! I wish they would do regional pricing for Minecraft as It's not too expensive when I was earning USD ($30) but after moving to Malaysia and earning local currency it is a bigger expense for something that isn't really needed (current conversion puts it at 132.44 MYR, for perspective that's enough for vegetables for a couple of weeks at the rate my family eats).
Once my kids are old enough, I'm sure I'll get copies for the family and have us all play together.
Oh, well, lemme know when it's enough for MEAT for that.
Sincerely,
—A MURRICAN
(I kid, I kid)
It's still the great game it once was, even more so if you can still gather a few friends to play it with (see my other comment in this thread for something that might interest you). I believe flying was added because of other new features in the game, I won't spoil it for you but you will need to fly a lot after beating the Ender Dragon. It does make the game a lot easier once you can do it, but it's not something that breaks the flow necessarily because of how late-game of an item it's supposed to be.
Also you're gonna have a heart attack when you hear about Happy Ghasts.
Didn't try Better than Adventure but a year ago I set up a modpack on a server with a similar goal, the Better Beta modpack. Me and my friends can confirm that it was a fun experience: brought back the oldschool gameplay incentives (exploration) and removed the RPG elements (exp and grinding) while also giving us the chance to check out the newer Minecraft features. Add custom terrain generation, Distant Horizons and some shaders if that is up your alley and you end up with a neat mix of old and new!
Just wanted to say thanks! I did not know there were mods for newer versions that brought old terrain gen back. I ended up going with 1:1 Beta for my goals, which was "as close to 1.7.3 as possible, on a newer engine" (because 1.7.3 isn't the best experience in terms of technology).
That looks interesting, if I do pick up Minecraft I'll have to check that out! I'm guessing this will happen in a few years if not sooner once my kids are old enough that we start introducing video games to them. I foresee a family Minecraft server cropping up at some point.
I really struggled to watch that video, I couldn't make it past a minute and 30 seconds before I had to switch it off.
Can someone give a summary of the video please?
EDIT: I used this AI summariser tool and got this:
AI Summary
Minecraft's Problems Aren't Just the New Features - Summary
Main Topic: The video discusses how Minecraft's core systems, particularly older ones, are flawed and haven't evolved to keep pace with the game's progression, leading to underutilized features and frustrating gameplay experiences.
Key Points:
Highlights: