I have to imagine the reason BioWare didn't meet expectations is because EA meddled with the process and gave them requirements that ultimately led to terrible games.
I have to imagine the reason BioWare didn't meet expectations is because EA meddled with the process and gave them requirements that ultimately led to terrible games.
I don't think it's a given that EA caused this, I think very likely it's more that bad management or bad decisions or generally poor execution (or turnover/burnout/etc) ended up creating a bad...
I don't think it's a given that EA caused this, I think very likely it's more that bad management or bad decisions or generally poor execution (or turnover/burnout/etc) ended up creating a bad product that didn't meet sales expectations.
Mass Effect Andromeda wasn't well received, Anthem was more or less DOA (Even though I actually played it a lot and thought it was a very good game), and the latest Dragon Age was also relatively lukewarmly reviewed.
I specifically remember that in the huge ass article about Anthem's development, they didn't have a clear vision+lots of indecision in direction. If I recall correctly, it was one of the higher ups, management types, that actually told them to prioritize the flying, that was something they added late, but it really made the game. It didn't save it, but it'd have been a WAY WORSE game without that, and if they'd made that decision sooner, maybe it'd have been better.
Other studios have simply made better games over the past decade or so, and a lot of the love and goodwill people had for BioWare's games......they lost, because they stopped making good games.
Yeah it was a mix of things. Some problems were on Bioware, others on EA. For example, I remember from the Anthem article that EA could be surprisingly patient, and that it was the Bioware...
Yeah it was a mix of things. Some problems were on Bioware, others on EA. For example, I remember from the Anthem article that EA could be surprisingly patient, and that it was the Bioware directors who wanted to chase the GaaS goldmine, and it was they who believed in and pushed for "Bioware magic" - the idea that everything would click together at the end (translation: bad planning & crunch).
Another thing to remember is that most people that worked on their best games (ME trilogy, DA Origins, etc) had already left the studio many years ago. The studio nowadays was not the same as the studio we all admired, it just shared the same name
Afaik EA mandated that BioWare use the Frostbite engine for several of its games (Dragon Age / Mass Effect) which caused some issues. They also pushed "live service" options into the games and...
Afaik EA mandated that BioWare use the Frostbite engine for several of its games (Dragon Age / Mass Effect) which caused some issues. They also pushed "live service" options into the games and shipped Anthem early.
I'm sure BioWare isn't without blame here, but EA certainly didn't help.
Despite this constantly being bandied as the reason why Beloved Developer put out bad games, it's been shown time and time again that EA actually gives its studios a lot of rope and they end up...
Despite this constantly being bandied as the reason why Beloved Developer put out bad games, it's been shown time and time again that EA actually gives its studios a lot of rope and they end up doing it to themselves. Maxis' scaling down of Spore and online-only approach to SimCity was all on them, Pandemic Studios was given extension after extension and couldn't produce anything in a timely manner after the PS2 era, Bioware chose to go after live service games with Anthem, and more.
The only studio I don't remember hearing brought things down on themselves was Westwood.
But all this is moot since EA is now owned by Saudis and Jared Kushner so none of the usual reasons have to apply. For all we know, they're getting shut down because their games have homosexuality in them. Or because they're Canadian.
I understand the argument, but if you examine the data scores of games almost universally drop a few years after EA acquires a studio. Even if they aren't directly meddling, there has to be a...
I understand the argument, but if you examine the data scores of games almost universally drop a few years after EA acquires a studio. Even if they aren't directly meddling, there has to be a correlation here.
Pre-EA Bioware was regularly ~90 on Metacritic, post-EA they are in the 70-80s range.
Eh that can just be correlation. All studios fade eventually. But EA will buy them at their apex, because of course they would. Like, if a new studio formed, and immediately made ass games, EA...
Eh that can just be correlation. All studios fade eventually. But EA will buy them at their apex, because of course they would. Like, if a new studio formed, and immediately made ass games, EA definitely isn't going to acquire them.
All western studios maybe. There's a reason Nintendo is still at the top of its game 40 years in. Turns out studios are made of people and people tend to get better at something the longer they do...
All studios fade eventually.
All western studios maybe. There's a reason Nintendo is still at the top of its game 40 years in. Turns out studios are made of people and people tend to get better at something the longer they do it. And that tends to be how much of Japan's studios work.
A studio like Obsidian (to use a less controversial example)? They don't necessarily become objectively worse, but how many people there who worked on KOTOR 2 are around today? More than you'd think for an American studio, but still not a lot. We don't foster talent here, we rely on brands and have a revolving door underneath trying to keep the show running.
They were bought in 2005, years before they put out Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Their first underwhelming big release was Dragon Age 2, in 2011. Mass Effect Andromeda was their first flop of a...
They were bought in 2005, years before they put out Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Their first underwhelming big release was Dragon Age 2, in 2011. Mass Effect Andromeda was their first flop of a release (i.e. their first game which failed to score above 80 on MC) and that was 2017. So that's 12 years after EA's acquisition.
Idk sometimes I think people give the studios a pass just to have an easy villain. They had a lot of bombs. DA 2 was bad. Mass Effect 3 was heavily flawed. MA andromeda was atrocious. DA Veilguard...
Idk sometimes I think people give the studios a pass just to have an easy villain. They had a lot of bombs. DA 2 was bad. Mass Effect 3 was heavily flawed. MA andromeda was atrocious. DA Veilguard was mediocre at best.
The one thing that EA definitely “meddled” with is the choice of engine, since they were encouraged to use the in house frostbite engine over unreal. But everyone complains about all games using unreal, so maybe they have a point.
Easy to have a villain when they act like a villain, yes. This whole thing is a result of leadership jumping ship and selling the studio to the highest bidder. Meanwhile, on the developer side...
Easy to have a villain when they act like a villain, yes. This whole thing is a result of leadership jumping ship and selling the studio to the highest bidder.
Meanwhile, on the developer side rule of cool is in effect. Gamers can be brutal , but they'll also forgive a lot of issues for a game that's overall engaging. Metal Gear Solid 5 is basically unfinished but people still love it to death because of the core experience that's in there.
I can say that without much bioware balance. The only game from them I played was Sonic: Dark Brotherhood. And if you are invested in Sonic, you know that's not a good experience.
So I guess this means the teased Mass Effect sequel is dead. The cynic in me believes this is primarily due to the extremely hard-right views of the new EA ownership (who gained control not even 3...
So I guess this means the teased Mass Effect sequel is dead.
The cynic in me believes this is primarily due to the extremely hard-right views of the new EA ownership (who gained control not even 3 months ago), especially with the history and reputation BioWare has of more inclusive gender and sexual identity in its games.
I can't say that I had too high hopes for the next Mass Effect, let alone anything further in Dragon Age. But BioWare the failing is definitely the fault of EA management more than it is their own...
I can't say that I had too high hopes for the next Mass Effect, let alone anything further in Dragon Age. But BioWare the failing is definitely the fault of EA management more than it is their own hubris (although I will always remember 'Lots of speculation for everyone!' Hudson)
Hopefully the devs find work elsewhere if they're not staying with EA, more fulfilling work ideally. I have to imagine morale was absolutely terrible even before the slew of layoffs last year and now this.
EA Games -> Everything's Awful BioWare didn't deserve this, and this is why I haven't purchased any triple-A titles in literal years at this point. At least, not outside of Humble Choice bundles....
EA Games -> Everything's Awful
BioWare didn't deserve this, and this is why I haven't purchased any triple-A titles in literal years at this point. At least, not outside of Humble Choice bundles. I just can't support the "big" games industry anymore. The consoles are shit and overpriced, the games are shit and overpriced, the companies are awful and it feels like supporting sweatshops. I'd rather plunk around in my little indie games that are a bit janky but made with heart by people who take care of themselves and their crew.
Here's hoping they at least sell off the IP to more loving studios, I can't see any benefit to them leaving money on the table if they're shuttering the studio anyway (maybe some tax shenanigans?).
Here's hoping they at least sell off the IP to more loving studios, I can't see any benefit to them leaving money on the table if they're shuttering the studio anyway (maybe some tax shenanigans?).
when the saudies bought EA many of us already knew this was going to happen. EA was horrible, but after that went through EA is dead. They only wanted fifa, battlefield and whatever game as a...
when the saudies bought EA many of us already knew this was going to happen. EA was horrible, but after that went through EA is dead. They only wanted fifa, battlefield and whatever game as a service they could get
I have to imagine the reason BioWare didn't meet expectations is because EA meddled with the process and gave them requirements that ultimately led to terrible games.
I don't think it's a given that EA caused this, I think very likely it's more that bad management or bad decisions or generally poor execution (or turnover/burnout/etc) ended up creating a bad product that didn't meet sales expectations.
Mass Effect Andromeda wasn't well received, Anthem was more or less DOA (Even though I actually played it a lot and thought it was a very good game), and the latest Dragon Age was also relatively lukewarmly reviewed.
I specifically remember that in the huge ass article about Anthem's development, they didn't have a clear vision+lots of indecision in direction. If I recall correctly, it was one of the higher ups, management types, that actually told them to prioritize the flying, that was something they added late, but it really made the game. It didn't save it, but it'd have been a WAY WORSE game without that, and if they'd made that decision sooner, maybe it'd have been better.
Other studios have simply made better games over the past decade or so, and a lot of the love and goodwill people had for BioWare's games......they lost, because they stopped making good games.
Yeah it was a mix of things. Some problems were on Bioware, others on EA. For example, I remember from the Anthem article that EA could be surprisingly patient, and that it was the Bioware directors who wanted to chase the GaaS goldmine, and it was they who believed in and pushed for "Bioware magic" - the idea that everything would click together at the end (translation: bad planning & crunch).
Another thing to remember is that most people that worked on their best games (ME trilogy, DA Origins, etc) had already left the studio many years ago. The studio nowadays was not the same as the studio we all admired, it just shared the same name
Afaik EA mandated that BioWare use the Frostbite engine for several of its games (Dragon Age / Mass Effect) which caused some issues. They also pushed "live service" options into the games and shipped Anthem early.
I'm sure BioWare isn't without blame here, but EA certainly didn't help.
Despite this constantly being bandied as the reason why Beloved Developer put out bad games, it's been shown time and time again that EA actually gives its studios a lot of rope and they end up doing it to themselves. Maxis' scaling down of Spore and online-only approach to SimCity was all on them, Pandemic Studios was given extension after extension and couldn't produce anything in a timely manner after the PS2 era, Bioware chose to go after live service games with Anthem, and more.
The only studio I don't remember hearing brought things down on themselves was Westwood.
But all this is moot since EA is now owned by Saudis and Jared Kushner so none of the usual reasons have to apply. For all we know, they're getting shut down because their games have homosexuality in them. Or because they're Canadian.
I understand the argument, but if you examine the data scores of games almost universally drop a few years after EA acquires a studio. Even if they aren't directly meddling, there has to be a correlation here.
Pre-EA Bioware was regularly ~90 on Metacritic, post-EA they are in the 70-80s range.
Eh that can just be correlation. All studios fade eventually. But EA will buy them at their apex, because of course they would. Like, if a new studio formed, and immediately made ass games, EA definitely isn't going to acquire them.
All western studios maybe. There's a reason Nintendo is still at the top of its game 40 years in. Turns out studios are made of people and people tend to get better at something the longer they do it. And that tends to be how much of Japan's studios work.
A studio like Obsidian (to use a less controversial example)? They don't necessarily become objectively worse, but how many people there who worked on KOTOR 2 are around today? More than you'd think for an American studio, but still not a lot. We don't foster talent here, we rely on brands and have a revolving door underneath trying to keep the show running.
Art never worked like that.
They were bought in 2005, years before they put out Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Their first underwhelming big release was Dragon Age 2, in 2011. Mass Effect Andromeda was their first flop of a release (i.e. their first game which failed to score above 80 on MC) and that was 2017. So that's 12 years after EA's acquisition.
EA bought Bioware in 2007*
2007, wasn't it?
It’s the EA tradition, after all. Same thing that kills every EA studio.
Idk sometimes I think people give the studios a pass just to have an easy villain. They had a lot of bombs. DA 2 was bad. Mass Effect 3 was heavily flawed. MA andromeda was atrocious. DA Veilguard was mediocre at best.
Anthem was the biggest disaster, and per interviews that was on BioWare mainly https://www.ign.com/articles/former-bioware-executive-producer-breaks-down-what-really-happened-to-anthem
The one thing that EA definitely “meddled” with is the choice of engine, since they were encouraged to use the in house frostbite engine over unreal. But everyone complains about all games using unreal, so maybe they have a point.
Easy to have a villain when they act like a villain, yes. This whole thing is a result of leadership jumping ship and selling the studio to the highest bidder.
Meanwhile, on the developer side rule of cool is in effect. Gamers can be brutal , but they'll also forgive a lot of issues for a game that's overall engaging. Metal Gear Solid 5 is basically unfinished but people still love it to death because of the core experience that's in there.
I can say that without much bioware balance. The only game from them I played was Sonic: Dark Brotherhood. And if you are invested in Sonic, you know that's not a good experience.
So I guess this means the teased Mass Effect sequel is dead.
The cynic in me believes this is primarily due to the extremely hard-right views of the new EA ownership (who gained control not even 3 months ago), especially with the history and reputation BioWare has of more inclusive gender and sexual identity in its games.
I can't say that I had too high hopes for the next Mass Effect, let alone anything further in Dragon Age. But BioWare the failing is definitely the fault of EA management more than it is their own hubris (although I will always remember 'Lots of speculation for everyone!' Hudson)
Hopefully the devs find work elsewhere if they're not staying with EA, more fulfilling work ideally. I have to imagine morale was absolutely terrible even before the slew of layoffs last year and now this.
EA Games -> Everything's Awful
BioWare didn't deserve this, and this is why I haven't purchased any triple-A titles in literal years at this point. At least, not outside of Humble Choice bundles. I just can't support the "big" games industry anymore. The consoles are shit and overpriced, the games are shit and overpriced, the companies are awful and it feels like supporting sweatshops. I'd rather plunk around in my little indie games that are a bit janky but made with heart by people who take care of themselves and their crew.
Here's hoping they at least sell off the IP to more loving studios, I can't see any benefit to them leaving money on the table if they're shuttering the studio anyway (maybe some tax shenanigans?).
when the saudies bought EA many of us already knew this was going to happen. EA was horrible, but after that went through EA is dead. They only wanted fifa, battlefield and whatever game as a service they could get