I'd hope that the vibrating pill is just a proof of concept, not the final product. There've been a number of approved mechanical or electrical implanted devices to promote satiety - gastric...
I'd hope that the vibrating pill is just a proof of concept, not the final product. There've been a number of approved mechanical or electrical implanted devices to promote satiety - gastric bands, vagus nerve stimulators, and so on.
I don't think a permanent rechargable implanted stomach vibrator is a great solution, but it's probably less costly than lifelong drug treatments at current prices.
Oh, no, don't be silly. You shit through a strainer, catch the pill, wash it off in some luke-warm water, then swallow again. Anyone looking to lose weight is down for this, 100%. (This is all...
Oh, no, don't be silly. You shit through a strainer, catch the pill, wash it off in some luke-warm water, then swallow again. Anyone looking to lose weight is down for this, 100%.
This is a very "treat-the-symptom" type response. The entire idea of taking a pill to combat obesity rather than to address the life circumstances that lead people to develop poor eating habits in...
This is a very "treat-the-symptom" type response. The entire idea of taking a pill to combat obesity rather than to address the life circumstances that lead people to develop poor eating habits in the first place. If people are consuming 20% less food, but 80% of that food continues to be empty calories, then I doubt this would make any sort of major impact.
Unfortunately, you can't sell a simple, whole food based diet in the same way that you can sell a vibrating capsule.
Hard disagree, and in fact, your comment borders on victim-blaming in my opinion. While mechanically "eat better" is accurate, it completely ignores the realities of societies where obesity is...
Exemplary
Hard disagree, and in fact, your comment borders on victim-blaming in my opinion. While mechanically "eat better" is accurate, it completely ignores the realities of societies where obesity is rampant. Some clear societal factors affecting obesity apart from "eat better": (1) economic incentives to eat high-calorie processed food, both upstream and downstream (2) work cultures that emphasize efficiency over all else leading to people eating convenience foods (3) car-driven culture that causes people to sit from home-to-office with minimal walking (4) the erosion of public spaces leading to most leisure activities to take place at home often in front of a TV or computer screen.
The point is that "eat a whole food based diet," much like the solution in Israel/Gaza is "stop killing people," is more of a platitude than a solution addressing the real concerns underpinning the problem.
I agree with this take. While of course making lifestyle changes would be the best option, the clear reality is that lots of people aren't willing or able to make that change for whatever reason....
I agree with this take. While of course making lifestyle changes would be the best option, the clear reality is that lots of people aren't willing or able to make that change for whatever reason. It's not like it's a secret that if you had the discipline to permanently alter your eating and exercise habits it would likely have an effect over time.
Doctors aren't hiding this information.
Framing this as some kind of either-or is essentially looking at the current situation and saying "well I already told them to fix themselves, if that hasnt worked then fuck them they deserve whatever they get".
Which, fair enough, you don't owe anybody your sympathy. But if that hasn't worked up to this point, I dont see the harm in trying to find other solutions that work for the people who for whatever reason haven't been able to make use of the current solutions.
Aren't things you listed still just obstacles in the way of "just eating better"? Sure, they mean that "eating better" is rather hard and not fully the fault of the person, but the solution is...
Aren't things you listed still just obstacles in the way of "just eating better"? Sure, they mean that "eating better" is rather hard and not fully the fault of the person, but the solution is still "eating better", it's just not as easy to do as it would've been if not for those conditions
I would disagree with zenen, too, but mainly because I know depression runs in my family, and when you get suicidal at 11, it's fairly obvious it was passed down. I've tried therapy and meds, and...
I would disagree with zenen, too, but mainly because I know depression runs in my family, and when you get suicidal at 11, it's fairly obvious it was passed down. I've tried therapy and meds, and for some reason my brain is too stubborn to change its mind on what to believe about myself, others, and the world.
Regardless of all that, I'm glad someone is trying to figure out how to treat one of the symptoms, because obesity definitely plays a part in the downward spiral of depression.
Not to mention, many necessary medications cause weight gain, and if you're already suffering from other factors that cause it, you will be obese. I gained 60 lbs when I took my first anti depressant, and when I stopped Lexapro, the weight didn't leave,
despite my lifestyle not changing at all when I stopped compared to before I started.
Oh man, I could probably write a whole book about depression and obesity. The last 2-3 weeks have been rather tough for me so my depression has come back and with it the bad eating. Last night was...
Oh man, I could probably write a whole book about depression and obesity. The last 2-3 weeks have been rather tough for me so my depression has come back and with it the bad eating. Last night was particularly bad in terms of eating, since I had a fairly rich meal and then just kept eating tortilla chips uncontrollably and topped it all off with a chocolate bar. Even when you know that a one-time slip up won’t hurt you in the long run, the personal failing still makes you feel shitty.
Carb craving and overeating at this time of year is practically definitional for Seasonal Affective Disorder. I've got the same thing going on, and need to get the big SAD lamp out regularly....
Carb craving and overeating at this time of year is practically definitional for Seasonal Affective Disorder. I've got the same thing going on, and need to get the big SAD lamp out regularly. OTOH, I'm back on prednisone for an arthritis flare, and that's a major factor in my current weight gain and mood - I'm constantly hungry, regardless of what or how much I eat. I've just stopped feeling like a personal failure about it, and will deal with the damage when I can. It's not wholly a matter of personal responsibility when you're in a perpetual battle with your chemistry.
I hope you find some support and strength in knowing you're not alone with this - it does get better.
Shouldn’t it be evolutionary to carb load this time of year? In the olden days, seems like there would be excess carbs around that might spoil, so it would be advantageous to eat them when...
Shouldn’t it be evolutionary to carb load this time of year? In the olden days, seems like there would be excess carbs around that might spoil, so it would be advantageous to eat them when available, and store them in the body, which also needs extra insulation against the cold.
And the lethargy surrounding the winter months, too, yeah. A lot of animals hibernate, and crops aren't easy to grow (if they grow at all) so you stock up, so no need to work as much. Also, it'd...
And the lethargy surrounding the winter months, too, yeah. A lot of animals hibernate, and crops aren't easy to grow (if they grow at all) so you stock up, so no need to work as much. Also, it'd be warmer inside the "cave" which would help against dangerous and needless weightloss.
Well, people do end up eating a lot of sugar and carbs around this time of year... (like me getting an entire box of mounds for myself) Maybe you can mentally reframe this as just part of the...
Well, people do end up eating a lot of sugar and carbs around this time of year... (like me getting an entire box of mounds for myself) Maybe you can mentally reframe this as just part of the holiday season, so you won't feel as guilty? I fully know what that felt like, and maybe it's just my low self esteem or how long I've been doing this mental health crap, but I don't pay it any attention anymore.
But ofc it's perfectly fine, and probably healthy even, to sit with uncomfortable feelings. Let them exist for a while and don't distract yourself with anything. Society (me included) has a bad habit of telling people to cheer up when sometimes what they need is to fully experience their emotional reaction to something instead of repressing it to "feel better".
There are other important things I need to focus on in my life besides the one thing I have tried time and time and time again to change (my weight), but can't. Why continue to waste what little energy I get on something that seems futile when I could be spending it improving other areas of my life, y'know? Pick your battles.
I hope your days get better, Akir. In times like this, I remind myself of the last mental valley I was in before I got to soar to another mental mountaintop. I think of how I usually will feel that the valley will outlast me, but then I find myself eventually feeling better at some point.
I hear you. I'm not trying to ignore the societal factors that you've mentioned, we're in full agreement there. What I'm saying is that - so long as those 4 factors are in place - obesity is going...
I hear you. I'm not trying to ignore the societal factors that you've mentioned, we're in full agreement there. What I'm saying is that - so long as those 4 factors are in place - obesity is going to continue being a problem. If people are buying a disposable e-waste pill to deal with that problem, is that going to make it any easier for them to choose less convenience foods and minimally processed goods? Or are people going to continue to eat sugary and salty foods because it feels good and makes them forget about their problems for a moment?
I don't agree with this way of thinking, which seems to dismiss a possibly useful resource just because it doesn't fulfill an ideal of perfection. This reminds when people tell me to just apply...
I don't agree with this way of thinking, which seems to dismiss a possibly useful resource just because it doesn't fulfill an ideal of perfection.
This reminds when people tell me to just apply willpower to overcome my ADHD traits, or any mental issue for that matter. If mere willpower was enough, it wouldn't be a disorder in the first place.
Not smoking is remarkably easy as long as you're not addicted to cigarettes. Some people need all the help they can get, and judging them for seeking medical attention isn't helpful.
It is concerning that such uninformed prejudice is the top comment on this thread. Obesity is a serious issue that takes lives, and not everyone has the resources and mental capacity to change their habits without the use of medications, or, in some cases, surgery.
I know it was not your intention to embrace harmful discourse, but I feel compelled to note that what you expressed in your comment reinforces a common trope that is both judgemental and unscientific.
I mostly agree with your take. However, I also get triggered by the "don't blame the victim" mentality that is so often brought up in contexts where it does not apply. A compulsive eater is not...
I mostly agree with your take. However, I also get triggered by the "don't blame the victim" mentality that is so often brought up in contexts where it does not apply. A compulsive eater is not the same as a rape victim.
I'm speaking as someone whom, it my 40 years of life, has struggled with drugs, alcohol, smoking, gambling, spending, and obesity. I come from a long line of addicts.
I'm not saying it's easy, or that the deck isn't stacked against us, or there aren't exacerbating factors somewhat out of our control. Sometimes we're dealt a shit hand, but we're the only ones that can play it out.
I gained 40 lbs when I went on my mental meds. One side effect was that it essentially turned off the signaling to indicate I was full. At my heaviest I was 250. I only lost it by working with my doctor to find a new med and the diligently eating better..though the last 10 pounds are almost a lost cause.
My father-in-law is diabetic. He had a gastric bypass after losing his toe, was under strict dietary instructions, which he promptly ignored and complained his stomach hurt. Since then he's also lost half his foot because he refuses to take care of himself. There's not a medicine in the world that can keep him from destroying himself, it's on him. I love this man, but he is no victim.
My Uncle drank himself to death, despite multiple interventions.
I agree that it is good to provide people whom need help more tools. I don't think they should be shamed for their setbacks, and they should be praised for their progress.... but they also should not be absolved of their responsibility to make that progress. "Only you can fix this" applies in a way that being an actual victim does not. But so often, especially when it comes to obesity, it's a hard truth that addicts don't want to hear. I say that from a place of knowing, compassion, and understanding.
It's easy to blame the marketing companies (I despise them too), the corporations that explicitly design their goods to be more addictive, the doctors that won't try to help you, the social norms around you, the genes that make it harder for you than anyone else. And it is hard to accept that only you can fix you.
Like you, I've struggled with drugs, smoking and weight, and the side effects of medications. I've had family members who smoked and ate themselves to early deaths. But frankly, I'm all in favor...
Like you, I've struggled with drugs, smoking and weight, and the side effects of medications. I've had family members who smoked and ate themselves to early deaths.
But frankly, I'm all in favor of anything that can make the struggle to escape easier. I'm happy with anything that creates guardrails around our exposure to conditions that most humans don't have well-selected evolutionary tools to handle, like constant stress, sweet food abundance, cheap addictive chemicals, and sedentary living.
Yes, we can exert ourselves constantly to make good choices, but we know that a wide range of stressors can erode executive function required for self-control. I'm glad you and I made it out, but I'd wager we've both had compassionate, knowledgeable medical support to do it, and that's definitely not available to everyone.
Yeah. Unfortunately, systemic correction of the underlying issues faces economic counter-momentum in the form of companies who profit by producing foods that cause people to want to eat more of...
Yeah. Unfortunately, systemic correction of the underlying issues faces economic counter-momentum in the form of companies who profit by producing foods that cause people to want to eat more of said foods as a primary driver, instead of quality nutrition and good health being a primary driver.
The addictive nature of refined sugar, and its subsequent inclusion in so many foods that do not need refined sugar, being a prime example.
Quite literally "Die for our greed, our profits being more important than your life" given the documented link between high quantities of refined sugar in a diet and increase in obesity, cardiovascular disease, and so many other subsequent health issues.
Treating symptoms is an important part of health. If you slice your finger off while cutting vegetables and call the emergency services, their first question is "where are you located?", not "will...
Treating symptoms is an important part of health.
If you slice your finger off while cutting vegetables and call the emergency services, their first question is "where are you located?", not "will you make your kitchen a safer environment in the future?".
You've gotten a bunch of explanations while this mindset is... problematic, to say the least, so I won't repeat. But in general, NOTHING is an either/or. You don't say "either diet OR exercise", so why does it have to be "either take this pill OR eat healthier"?
Obesity is difficult because it is usually an accumulation of multiple issues that culminate in a long term effect on the body. It's not something you "catch", it's something you become. To reverse this is a long process, requiring long-term changes. These long term changes are difficult to implement, and any help in doing so (such as satiety modifiers) will boost the chances you are able to form new habits.
A whole food based diet won't do shit for you if you're dealing with addiction, ptsd, or are simply used to eating huge portions. Just like exercise won't do shit for you if you pepper it with bigmacs and coke.
And your comment is just plain wrong: "If people are consuming 20% less food, but 80% of that food continues to be empty calories".... then they're eating 20% less, how can you not understand how massive an impact that is?
I have no problem treating the symptom if doing so still improves overall health outcomes. Others have made some very good points about the many complexities behind the kind of “empty calories”...
I have no problem treating the symptom if doing so still improves overall health outcomes.
Others have made some very good points about the many complexities behind the kind of “empty calories” diet you’re discussing, but I think most people would also be surprised how a BMI of 30 actually looks on a lot of people and how easy it is to get there even with an ostensibly “good” diet. I’ve gone through periods of eating utter crap, coinciding with mental health low points, but I’ve also gone through periods of eating a significant calorie surplus without even realising because I love food and cooking - the butter to finish a sauce, the extra thick slices of fresh crusty bread to make a sandwich with a big stack of leftovers, the honey or bacon fat or sesame oil to bring out the flavour of vegetables all add up while the heaping plates of proteins and fresh veg look like a textbook example of a balanced meal when the cooking is done.
I also didn’t look like “a fat guy” even at over 100kg. It was clear I could afford to lose a little weight, sure, but I was still just a UK-standard large in most clothing and I certainly wouldn’t get a second glance for my size in pretty much any situation. After getting back on track in the last year and dropping 20+kg I’ve actually had one or two people show some genuine, well-meaning concern about “how skinny I am” when I was still a little overweight. The well documented health dangers of obesity kick in based on mass and body fat, but the popular image of what that looks like and what it takes to eat 3,000 calories in a day are skewed heavily by the extremes that are far, far past that bar.
We like to think of the obesity as being a somewhat recent problem, but the reality is that we’ve had major weight problems as a society for well over a century at this point - just not quite as...
We like to think of the obesity as being a somewhat recent problem, but the reality is that we’ve had major weight problems as a society for well over a century at this point - just not quite as widespread as it is today. So it’s not too surprising that people don’t know what a healthy body is supposed to look like. Our tastes in food have become unrealistic to the point where most people won’t tolerate the flavor of vegetables without significant added flavoring, which usually means doubling the caloric content of the dish - sometimes several times over.
Unfortunately there is no easy solution to these problems. I remember taking multiple health classes in public school, but the things I learned were incredibly divorced from reality. Things like calories, vitamins, and carbohydrates aren’t real - they are intangible concepts that don’t mean anything to people in their daily lives. You have to give people instinctive tools so they choose foods that are good for them even if it doesn’t taste spectacular, and that’s a function of how one is raised, not how one is educated.
And when you're raised by someone who also has depression, well... their bad eating habits get passed down and then become hard to break once you realize what has happened and then, later realize...
and that’s a function of how one is raised, not how one is educated
And when you're raised by someone who also has depression, well... their bad eating habits get passed down and then become hard to break once you realize what has happened and then, later realize why you should care about it.
wide spread obesity within wealthy nations is new, but obesity itself isn't new. Wiki article on historical figures known as "-- the fat" for example If we consider that the 1% of any society tend...
wide spread obesity within wealthy nations is new, but obesity itself isn't new.
If we consider that the 1% of any society tend to be fat, and with globalization now, perhaps Americans are just this century's 1%.
I would also agree on how one is raised having an effect. If people are so busy and worn down by long commute and work, they're not going to spend a lot of times making healthy meals. They're going to do take out or ready heat meals or go out to eat.
What's ever so frustrating about the magic pills (whatever form they take) for obesity is the assumption that if I, or any fat person, is not actively working on not looking like we do at all...
What's ever so frustrating about the magic pills (whatever form they take) for obesity is the assumption that if I, or any fat person, is not actively working on not looking like we do at all times, we're lazy addicts. And every treatment that comes out just gives one more thing for someone to ask "but have you tried..." And if the answer is no you're not trying hard enough.
And if the answer is yes, you're a tragic figure. Either way you're both actively killing yourself and a waste of society's resources while still just being inconvenient and gross in public spaces.
It's. Exhausting.
If a pill makes you feel full, then you're going to eat less and that's just a diet that ends every time the pill dissolves or is passed. You're just gonna eat when you feel better again, because you're still hungry. Or you're going to have all the same side effects of calorie counting and lower intake and quit. It's just a new way to cause the same things we already cause. (And probably nausea for at least some people as a bonus).
I just wonder if I promised not to use Medicaid and pay all my bills myself forever would I be allowed to just exist in physical space without being subjected to judgement and constant "cures" for the body I'm told I should love (but not love enough to stop constantly trying to change (but only change in a particular way))
Not sure it's worth making a new thread, but I have just seen this on the BBC. Curious as to what people think about this approach instead, especially @spit-evil-olive-tips as it seems to address...
Not sure it's worth making a new thread, but I have just seen this on the BBC. Curious as to what people think about this approach instead, especially @spit-evil-olive-tips as it seems to address some of the concerns you had. (Battery free, 4 month active time rather than 4 days)
That is weirdly terrifying to me. It’s novel in its simplicity but the idea of having a tube down your throat for an extended period of time - even if it is less than an hour - makes me...
That is weirdly terrifying to me. It’s novel in its simplicity but the idea of having a tube down your throat for an extended period of time - even if it is less than an hour - makes me uncomfortable to the point of fear.
Beyond that, techniques that design to restrict the stomach are far from a panacea. There are many signals that a brain will interpret as hunger, and fullness is just one of them. These are physical tools that are supposed to be used in conjunction with a whole host of non-physical others that take a lot of time and effort to implement and turn into habit. This is one of the reasons why doctors tend to withhold these treatments with requirements to trial a diet and exercise routine first.
But if we ignore that part and just pretend that physical fullness is the only problem (it is, after all, thought to be the one with the highest effect on hunger), this solution has the issue of falling apart every 4 months. What do you imagine doing when suddenly you need to eat twice as much to be satisfied again, and your appointment to replace it is in two weeks? The device doesn’t seem to have a timer, so that four month figure is just an estimate. It might pop early, or it might take longer than normal, so you can’t just schedule a time upfront to get it replaced. Watching the video of it inflating also made me note that it’s not made of stretchy materials so I wonder what passing it will be like.
That being said, this is a novel and relatively non-invasive method of something a lot more risky, so it’s a pretty good innovation that is sure to be a help.
You also still have all the side effects of calorie restriction that are among the many reasons people don't stick with weight loss diets. You feel fuller but still have impacts to blood sugar,...
You also still have all the side effects of calorie restriction that are among the many reasons people don't stick with weight loss diets. You feel fuller but still have impacts to blood sugar, headaches, irritability, etc. and likely this drops off in efficacy as stomachs stretch, and as people stop using it due to side effects.
I think one of the intentions is that this is part of a broad programme that includes strong support for lifestyle changes too, and that this tool helps people embed those change, and so after the...
I think one of the intentions is that this is part of a broad programme that includes strong support for lifestyle changes too, and that this tool helps people embed those change, and so after the four months they're more able to keep those new habits going until they get the replacement balloon.
I feel this is perhaps a bit optimistic, but it'll be interesting to see the data.
the idea of having a tube down your throat for an extended period of time - even if it is less than an hour - makes me uncomfortable to the point of fear.
Yes! We have strong gag reflexes for a reason. The idea of this scares me too. I've had a lot of endoscopy, and while it's possible to have it without sedation I've only done that once (numbing throat spray only), all the other times I took the low key conscious sedation we get on the NHS (midazolam, buscopan, pethidine, and throat spray). Without sedation was fine, but with was much easier.
E-waste in human waste.
I'd hope that the vibrating pill is just a proof of concept, not the final product. There've been a number of approved mechanical or electrical implanted devices to promote satiety - gastric bands, vagus nerve stimulators, and so on.
I don't think a permanent rechargable implanted stomach vibrator is a great solution, but it's probably less costly than lifelong drug treatments at current prices.
Oh, no, don't be silly. You shit through a strainer, catch the pill, wash it off in some luke-warm water, then swallow again. Anyone looking to lose weight is down for this, 100%.
(This is all sarcasm)
The e coli helps you lose weight even faster!
This is a very "treat-the-symptom" type response. The entire idea of taking a pill to combat obesity rather than to address the life circumstances that lead people to develop poor eating habits in the first place. If people are consuming 20% less food, but 80% of that food continues to be empty calories, then I doubt this would make any sort of major impact.
Unfortunately, you can't sell a simple, whole food based diet in the same way that you can sell a vibrating capsule.
Hard disagree, and in fact, your comment borders on victim-blaming in my opinion. While mechanically "eat better" is accurate, it completely ignores the realities of societies where obesity is rampant. Some clear societal factors affecting obesity apart from "eat better": (1) economic incentives to eat high-calorie processed food, both upstream and downstream (2) work cultures that emphasize efficiency over all else leading to people eating convenience foods (3) car-driven culture that causes people to sit from home-to-office with minimal walking (4) the erosion of public spaces leading to most leisure activities to take place at home often in front of a TV or computer screen.
The point is that "eat a whole food based diet," much like the solution in Israel/Gaza is "stop killing people," is more of a platitude than a solution addressing the real concerns underpinning the problem.
I agree with this take. While of course making lifestyle changes would be the best option, the clear reality is that lots of people aren't willing or able to make that change for whatever reason. It's not like it's a secret that if you had the discipline to permanently alter your eating and exercise habits it would likely have an effect over time.
Doctors aren't hiding this information.
Framing this as some kind of either-or is essentially looking at the current situation and saying "well I already told them to fix themselves, if that hasnt worked then fuck them they deserve whatever they get".
Which, fair enough, you don't owe anybody your sympathy. But if that hasn't worked up to this point, I dont see the harm in trying to find other solutions that work for the people who for whatever reason haven't been able to make use of the current solutions.
Aren't things you listed still just obstacles in the way of "just eating better"? Sure, they mean that "eating better" is rather hard and not fully the fault of the person, but the solution is still "eating better", it's just not as easy to do as it would've been if not for those conditions
I would disagree with zenen, too, but mainly because I know depression runs in my family, and when you get suicidal at 11, it's fairly obvious it was passed down. I've tried therapy and meds, and for some reason my brain is too stubborn to change its mind on what to believe about myself, others, and the world.
Regardless of all that, I'm glad someone is trying to figure out how to treat one of the symptoms, because obesity definitely plays a part in the downward spiral of depression.
Not to mention, many necessary medications cause weight gain, and if you're already suffering from other factors that cause it, you will be obese. I gained 60 lbs when I took my first anti depressant, and when I stopped Lexapro, the weight didn't leave,
despite my lifestyle not changing at all when I stopped compared to before I started.
Oh man, I could probably write a whole book about depression and obesity. The last 2-3 weeks have been rather tough for me so my depression has come back and with it the bad eating. Last night was particularly bad in terms of eating, since I had a fairly rich meal and then just kept eating tortilla chips uncontrollably and topped it all off with a chocolate bar. Even when you know that a one-time slip up won’t hurt you in the long run, the personal failing still makes you feel shitty.
Carb craving and overeating at this time of year is practically definitional for Seasonal Affective Disorder. I've got the same thing going on, and need to get the big SAD lamp out regularly. OTOH, I'm back on prednisone for an arthritis flare, and that's a major factor in my current weight gain and mood - I'm constantly hungry, regardless of what or how much I eat. I've just stopped feeling like a personal failure about it, and will deal with the damage when I can. It's not wholly a matter of personal responsibility when you're in a perpetual battle with your chemistry.
I hope you find some support and strength in knowing you're not alone with this - it does get better.
Shouldn’t it be evolutionary to carb load this time of year? In the olden days, seems like there would be excess carbs around that might spoil, so it would be advantageous to eat them when available, and store them in the body, which also needs extra insulation against the cold.
And the lethargy surrounding the winter months, too, yeah. A lot of animals hibernate, and crops aren't easy to grow (if they grow at all) so you stock up, so no need to work as much. Also, it'd be warmer inside the "cave" which would help against dangerous and needless weightloss.
Well, people do end up eating a lot of sugar and carbs around this time of year... (like me getting an entire box of mounds for myself) Maybe you can mentally reframe this as just part of the holiday season, so you won't feel as guilty? I fully know what that felt like, and maybe it's just my low self esteem or how long I've been doing this mental health crap, but I don't pay it any attention anymore.
But ofc it's perfectly fine, and probably healthy even, to sit with uncomfortable feelings. Let them exist for a while and don't distract yourself with anything. Society (me included) has a bad habit of telling people to cheer up when sometimes what they need is to fully experience their emotional reaction to something instead of repressing it to "feel better".
There are other important things I need to focus on in my life besides the one thing I have tried time and time and time again to change (my weight), but can't. Why continue to waste what little energy I get on something that seems futile when I could be spending it improving other areas of my life, y'know? Pick your battles.
I hope your days get better, Akir. In times like this, I remind myself of the last mental valley I was in before I got to soar to another mental mountaintop. I think of how I usually will feel that the valley will outlast me, but then I find myself eventually feeling better at some point.
I read a statistic once that said something like 80 percent of all weight gain is gained during the holiday season
I'd be interested in seeing how that matches up with Australians, where the holidays don't line up with the seasonality.
I hear you. I'm not trying to ignore the societal factors that you've mentioned, we're in full agreement there. What I'm saying is that - so long as those 4 factors are in place - obesity is going to continue being a problem. If people are buying a disposable e-waste pill to deal with that problem, is that going to make it any easier for them to choose less convenience foods and minimally processed goods? Or are people going to continue to eat sugary and salty foods because it feels good and makes them forget about their problems for a moment?
I don't agree with this way of thinking, which seems to dismiss a possibly useful resource just because it doesn't fulfill an ideal of perfection.
This reminds when people tell me to just apply willpower to overcome my ADHD traits, or any mental issue for that matter. If mere willpower was enough, it wouldn't be a disorder in the first place.
Not smoking is remarkably easy as long as you're not addicted to cigarettes. Some people need all the help they can get, and judging them for seeking medical attention isn't helpful.
It is concerning that such uninformed prejudice is the top comment on this thread. Obesity is a serious issue that takes lives, and not everyone has the resources and mental capacity to change their habits without the use of medications, or, in some cases, surgery.
I know it was not your intention to embrace harmful discourse, but I feel compelled to note that what you expressed in your comment reinforces a common trope that is both judgemental and unscientific.
I mostly agree with your take. However, I also get triggered by the "don't blame the victim" mentality that is so often brought up in contexts where it does not apply. A compulsive eater is not the same as a rape victim.
I'm speaking as someone whom, it my 40 years of life, has struggled with drugs, alcohol, smoking, gambling, spending, and obesity. I come from a long line of addicts.
I'm not saying it's easy, or that the deck isn't stacked against us, or there aren't exacerbating factors somewhat out of our control. Sometimes we're dealt a shit hand, but we're the only ones that can play it out.
I gained 40 lbs when I went on my mental meds. One side effect was that it essentially turned off the signaling to indicate I was full. At my heaviest I was 250. I only lost it by working with my doctor to find a new med and the diligently eating better..though the last 10 pounds are almost a lost cause.
My father-in-law is diabetic. He had a gastric bypass after losing his toe, was under strict dietary instructions, which he promptly ignored and complained his stomach hurt. Since then he's also lost half his foot because he refuses to take care of himself. There's not a medicine in the world that can keep him from destroying himself, it's on him. I love this man, but he is no victim.
My Uncle drank himself to death, despite multiple interventions.
I agree that it is good to provide people whom need help more tools. I don't think they should be shamed for their setbacks, and they should be praised for their progress.... but they also should not be absolved of their responsibility to make that progress. "Only you can fix this" applies in a way that being an actual victim does not. But so often, especially when it comes to obesity, it's a hard truth that addicts don't want to hear. I say that from a place of knowing, compassion, and understanding.
It's easy to blame the marketing companies (I despise them too), the corporations that explicitly design their goods to be more addictive, the doctors that won't try to help you, the social norms around you, the genes that make it harder for you than anyone else. And it is hard to accept that only you can fix you.
Like you, I've struggled with drugs, smoking and weight, and the side effects of medications. I've had family members who smoked and ate themselves to early deaths.
But frankly, I'm all in favor of anything that can make the struggle to escape easier. I'm happy with anything that creates guardrails around our exposure to conditions that most humans don't have well-selected evolutionary tools to handle, like constant stress, sweet food abundance, cheap addictive chemicals, and sedentary living.
Yes, we can exert ourselves constantly to make good choices, but we know that a wide range of stressors can erode executive function required for self-control. I'm glad you and I made it out, but I'd wager we've both had compassionate, knowledgeable medical support to do it, and that's definitely not available to everyone.
Yeah. Unfortunately, systemic correction of the underlying issues faces economic counter-momentum in the form of companies who profit by producing foods that cause people to want to eat more of said foods as a primary driver, instead of quality nutrition and good health being a primary driver.
The addictive nature of refined sugar, and its subsequent inclusion in so many foods that do not need refined sugar, being a prime example.
Quite literally "Die for our greed, our profits being more important than your life" given the documented link between high quantities of refined sugar in a diet and increase in obesity, cardiovascular disease, and so many other subsequent health issues.
Treating symptoms is an important part of health.
If you slice your finger off while cutting vegetables and call the emergency services, their first question is "where are you located?", not "will you make your kitchen a safer environment in the future?".
You've gotten a bunch of explanations while this mindset is... problematic, to say the least, so I won't repeat. But in general, NOTHING is an either/or. You don't say "either diet OR exercise", so why does it have to be "either take this pill OR eat healthier"?
Obesity is difficult because it is usually an accumulation of multiple issues that culminate in a long term effect on the body. It's not something you "catch", it's something you become. To reverse this is a long process, requiring long-term changes. These long term changes are difficult to implement, and any help in doing so (such as satiety modifiers) will boost the chances you are able to form new habits.
A whole food based diet won't do shit for you if you're dealing with addiction, ptsd, or are simply used to eating huge portions. Just like exercise won't do shit for you if you pepper it with bigmacs and coke.
And your comment is just plain wrong: "If people are consuming 20% less food, but 80% of that food continues to be empty calories".... then they're eating 20% less, how can you not understand how massive an impact that is?
I have no problem treating the symptom if doing so still improves overall health outcomes.
Others have made some very good points about the many complexities behind the kind of “empty calories” diet you’re discussing, but I think most people would also be surprised how a BMI of 30 actually looks on a lot of people and how easy it is to get there even with an ostensibly “good” diet. I’ve gone through periods of eating utter crap, coinciding with mental health low points, but I’ve also gone through periods of eating a significant calorie surplus without even realising because I love food and cooking - the butter to finish a sauce, the extra thick slices of fresh crusty bread to make a sandwich with a big stack of leftovers, the honey or bacon fat or sesame oil to bring out the flavour of vegetables all add up while the heaping plates of proteins and fresh veg look like a textbook example of a balanced meal when the cooking is done.
I also didn’t look like “a fat guy” even at over 100kg. It was clear I could afford to lose a little weight, sure, but I was still just a UK-standard large in most clothing and I certainly wouldn’t get a second glance for my size in pretty much any situation. After getting back on track in the last year and dropping 20+kg I’ve actually had one or two people show some genuine, well-meaning concern about “how skinny I am” when I was still a little overweight. The well documented health dangers of obesity kick in based on mass and body fat, but the popular image of what that looks like and what it takes to eat 3,000 calories in a day are skewed heavily by the extremes that are far, far past that bar.
We like to think of the obesity as being a somewhat recent problem, but the reality is that we’ve had major weight problems as a society for well over a century at this point - just not quite as widespread as it is today. So it’s not too surprising that people don’t know what a healthy body is supposed to look like. Our tastes in food have become unrealistic to the point where most people won’t tolerate the flavor of vegetables without significant added flavoring, which usually means doubling the caloric content of the dish - sometimes several times over.
Unfortunately there is no easy solution to these problems. I remember taking multiple health classes in public school, but the things I learned were incredibly divorced from reality. Things like calories, vitamins, and carbohydrates aren’t real - they are intangible concepts that don’t mean anything to people in their daily lives. You have to give people instinctive tools so they choose foods that are good for them even if it doesn’t taste spectacular, and that’s a function of how one is raised, not how one is educated.
And when you're raised by someone who also has depression, well... their bad eating habits get passed down and then become hard to break once you realize what has happened and then, later realize why you should care about it.
wide spread obesity within wealthy nations is new, but obesity itself isn't new.
Wiki article on historical figures known as "-- the fat" for example
If we consider that the 1% of any society tend to be fat, and with globalization now, perhaps Americans are just this century's 1%.
I would also agree on how one is raised having an effect. If people are so busy and worn down by long commute and work, they're not going to spend a lot of times making healthy meals. They're going to do take out or ready heat meals or go out to eat.
What's ever so frustrating about the magic pills (whatever form they take) for obesity is the assumption that if I, or any fat person, is not actively working on not looking like we do at all times, we're lazy addicts. And every treatment that comes out just gives one more thing for someone to ask "but have you tried..." And if the answer is no you're not trying hard enough.
And if the answer is yes, you're a tragic figure. Either way you're both actively killing yourself and a waste of society's resources while still just being inconvenient and gross in public spaces.
It's. Exhausting.
If a pill makes you feel full, then you're going to eat less and that's just a diet that ends every time the pill dissolves or is passed. You're just gonna eat when you feel better again, because you're still hungry. Or you're going to have all the same side effects of calorie counting and lower intake and quit. It's just a new way to cause the same things we already cause. (And probably nausea for at least some people as a bonus).
I just wonder if I promised not to use Medicaid and pay all my bills myself forever would I be allowed to just exist in physical space without being subjected to judgement and constant "cures" for the body I'm told I should love (but not love enough to stop constantly trying to change (but only change in a particular way))
Not sure it's worth making a new thread, but I have just seen this on the BBC. Curious as to what people think about this approach instead, especially @spit-evil-olive-tips as it seems to address some of the concerns you had. (Battery free, 4 month active time rather than 4 days)
That is weirdly terrifying to me. It’s novel in its simplicity but the idea of having a tube down your throat for an extended period of time - even if it is less than an hour - makes me uncomfortable to the point of fear.
Beyond that, techniques that design to restrict the stomach are far from a panacea. There are many signals that a brain will interpret as hunger, and fullness is just one of them. These are physical tools that are supposed to be used in conjunction with a whole host of non-physical others that take a lot of time and effort to implement and turn into habit. This is one of the reasons why doctors tend to withhold these treatments with requirements to trial a diet and exercise routine first.
But if we ignore that part and just pretend that physical fullness is the only problem (it is, after all, thought to be the one with the highest effect on hunger), this solution has the issue of falling apart every 4 months. What do you imagine doing when suddenly you need to eat twice as much to be satisfied again, and your appointment to replace it is in two weeks? The device doesn’t seem to have a timer, so that four month figure is just an estimate. It might pop early, or it might take longer than normal, so you can’t just schedule a time upfront to get it replaced. Watching the video of it inflating also made me note that it’s not made of stretchy materials so I wonder what passing it will be like.
That being said, this is a novel and relatively non-invasive method of something a lot more risky, so it’s a pretty good innovation that is sure to be a help.
You also still have all the side effects of calorie restriction that are among the many reasons people don't stick with weight loss diets. You feel fuller but still have impacts to blood sugar, headaches, irritability, etc. and likely this drops off in efficacy as stomachs stretch, and as people stop using it due to side effects.
I think one of the intentions is that this is part of a broad programme that includes strong support for lifestyle changes too, and that this tool helps people embed those change, and so after the four months they're more able to keep those new habits going until they get the replacement balloon.
I feel this is perhaps a bit optimistic, but it'll be interesting to see the data.
Yes! We have strong gag reflexes for a reason. The idea of this scares me too. I've had a lot of endoscopy, and while it's possible to have it without sedation I've only done that once (numbing throat spray only), all the other times I took the low key conscious sedation we get on the NHS (midazolam, buscopan, pethidine, and throat spray). Without sedation was fine, but with was much easier.