Getting permission from your significant other
I've got a group of people at work with whom I started a games lunch club. Sometimes we also try to make games happen in the evening after work, or on a weekend. I noticed that some of the guys often use these terms:
"I have to ask the boss."
"I got permission! I can go to the after-work game."
Mind you, I think these are also the guys who have kids. For transparency, I do not have kids, but I do have a partner and dogs.
So, what do others think of this line of thinking? These are the 3 options that I always think about:
Option 1: These guys will use their spouse as a convenient excuse to say they don't feel like going to the event. "It's not me. I wanted to. But she calls the shots." I find this pretty silly. Just be honest. Why lie and, worse, pull your spouse into your lie?
Option 2: Shouldn't relationships be more equal? There should not be a "boss". You should not need "permission". Just be accountable and responsible. Prioritize your family over a game, and just say it. "Sorry, can't make it. Family commitments." This is totally ok. If you want to go, but know you have a previous commitment, and you have to ask your spouse if you can bail out of the previous commitment to play a game, I think you should probably make that decision yourself. She's not your mom, she's your partner in life! You should probably skip the game.
Option 3: They are saying it in jest. They may think saying it like that is funny and it implies they prioritize their family (a good thing).
In general, these types of phrases remind me of "happy wife, happy life" or "yes, dear" which I associate with something a senior citizen from a different generation may say. I thought my generation (millennial) was over that and had more egalitarian relationships where the couple is a team.
What do others think? It's hard to rely tone in text-only, so I will just say I'm writing this not out of frustration or anger, but just because I found it interesting and sometimes I like thinking of these things and seeing how others perceive them.
If you are co-parenting, in one sense your time really is not your own: the project of caring for children has to have first claim on it. So one really should get "permission" in some sense from one's co-parent(s) to absent oneself from the project. You can't just bail and expect them to cover for you: what if all the parents tried to do that at once?
But framing that as, oh, the woman is in charge of scheduling not just for herself but for the entire family, is a little worrying. One person doing it wouldn't be so weird, sometimes one person in a family really just does wear a sort of executive assistant hat and keep track of where everyone ought to be at any given moment and that's the way they like it. But if a lot of men are acting like this about a lot of women, you might have a systemic gendered labor imbalance.
I terms of what people mean when they say this, I think they probably think they mean Option 3, but actually have an Option 2 problem. To really figure it out you need to like check how much Gender and Women's Studies they know.
This is just about what I would say.
You do need permission from an equal partner. My wife asks me for permission if she wants to go out with friends because that means I'm going to be staying home to make sure my three year old stays sleeping. Conversely, I also ask permission to go bail on my duties to go for a run on Sunday. She's going to be watching and entertaining the kid while I'm off doing my thing.
Both is fine, non malicious, and necessary if you want to stay equal.
Of course, to frame your partner as your boss is in jest at best and actively disparaging or damaging at worst. It's almost always closer to the latter than the former.
Edit to add: @balooga is right too. It's less permission permission and more "let's check if the calendars and duties align" permission.
If my wife asks me for something the default is "yes, let's see if that's possible".
Yes, it's mostly this.
Because imagine the alternative. You agree to hang out with your friends without asking your wife first, and your wife agrees to hang out with her friends without asking you first. You guys get home and tell each other your plans, and... oops! Who's going to watch the kids tonight? Now one of you has to cancel, and it looks way worse than just saying you have to check in with your spouse before committing to something.
It's not that I can't take time for myself, or that my wife shouldn't take time for herself, but if it's something out of the norm, we just need to make sure we're not placing an undue burden on each other, and also that we're not making conflicting plans.
Sounds about right to me. I can't speak for other couples but I always try to check in with my spouse before making scheduling decisions. It's not about "permission" but it is a gesture of respect for my spouse's time and energy. I feel it would be selfish or uncaring of me to just make personal plans without communicating about them first. We share our lives, calendars, and domestic responsibilities. If I make an executive decision to go hang with the guys some night, that will have consequences for my spouse, who now has to manage dinner prep, kids' bedtimes, and evening cleanup without me.
In a marriage, communication is everything. If I want that hangout to happen I can usually make it happen but it does require coordination and planning because we are partners. Maybe we shift our weekly meal plans to lighten the load that evening, or I help prep some ingredients before I leave. Or I promise to do the dishes after I get home that night. The point is, we're not two independent actors who happen to share a house... we're symbiotic, we're a household, we function as one unit. If I try to bypass that I'm just being a jerk to my other half. This is relational maturity, not an affront to my autonomy.
I might refer to this as "getting permission" as a form of funny shorthand. I think I usually use language like "let me check in with my spouse first" or "let me see what we're doing that night" instead though.
Yes, you can tell who has children and who does not in this threads replies. ;)
It's also a lot more work to e.g. handle dinner+dishes+bedtime by yourself vs with an active partner. My wife and I of course encourage each other to get away frequently, but I like a little warning ahead of time to mentally prepare myself lol.
My life comes down to planning and logistics.
Time is the constraint, so who does what when is a team decision. What has to be done then? What different things do we want to do? When?
It's all a big compromise.
I connote a certain "this isn't on the top of my list of priorities, so the partner can say no" to saying something has to be cleared with the boss.
"Getting permission" can also be about planning something in every moment squeezing out some of that precious family time. Not having something planned, but getting an affirmative to there being enough together-time.
Getting permission can also be about whether or not the partner has something to do that requires someone else to pay extra attention to the kids,
Checking can also be about ensuring there are no other plans they don't know of. Has someone promised the kid a movie or playdate with a friend I don't know about?
There are also certain things I decide unilaterally because that's "my domain" and things someone else decides because that's their domain.
I don't know if others split things in different ways, but I imagine there are as many arrangements as there are families. For instance; whoever cooks decides what's for dinner, wouldn't fly everywhere, but it's a lot of fun for me.
I do this. I don’t think it falls into any of those categories, for me. I just want to be sure that I’m not forgetting any other prior commitments, either scheduled or non-scheduled-but-still-anticipated. The former is just typical stuff like maybe my wife has plans with her friends that hasn’t had a chance to tell me about yet. The latter is just making sure my wife wasn’t just hoping to spend the night home with me, or has extra work to do at home and so needs me home to handle kids that might come out of bed.
Regarding phrasing, I used to occasionally say “ask the boss” or “check with management”, but do so less now (I’m mostly just following cues about the vibe of the conversation up to this point). Most anyone I hang out with is also friends with my wife— we are lucky to have good close friendships with other couples and each others friends— so the joke is a little thin.
I also make plans without checking with my wife, especially if I’m certain there is nothing planned at home, but I do still let her know and am willing to cancel if needed. I guess you could say I’m “asking permission”, by to me it’s just communicating intent and being okay with adapting my schedule if needed. Fortunately, she’s nearly always okay with me making plans even if it makes her evening slightly more difficult.
Many people don’t have such a good relationship so all of the above may not work for them. And all of your options I’m sure are true for some people, either individually or all at once. Apply explanations at your own risk.
Yeah I use the term "ask the boss" in a joking manner. It's not really asking permission. I live with someone so I'm going to check with them before hosting a social function. I would do the same if I had roommates instead of a wife. Not really any different from booking a conference room at work. You check the conference room calendar to make sure it's free when you need it before scheduling a big important meeting.
As far as not hosting, the conversation goes more like "hey I checked the calendar and there's nothing on it so I'm doing X Wednesday after work, double checking that we don't have anything happening that night, right?" But I still might phrase it as I "asked the boss".
Can be a lot of things, difficult to tell without knowing what sort of person they are otherwise. I do have some additional thoughts.
If you do have kids going to have a fun evening means your significant other will have to take care of the kids for the entire evening. Not only does it need to fit in the overal schedule but you are also effectively asking them if they are okay with that for that evening. Considering that their spouse might also have a day job that actually amounts to "permission" of sorts.
Even if you are in an equal relationship where you each have your own things in evenings "permission" might still be involved if only to prevent scheduling conflicts. But also, again, to make sure it just works for the other person on that particular evening.
Then there is a pattern you'll see in a lot of relationships where on person is "in charge" of the schedule.
It’s probably option 2 more often than you’d think. In spite of the macho predisposition that men are in control, many men want to have a partner in control of their life to one extent or another. Some men want a wife who is a “mommy”. And that’s not bad so long as they are happy.
Relationships are complicated. Equal relationships are usually asymmetrical; one partner takes care of some things and another takes care of others.
I also think that the “boss” dynamic is more true than you and many others want to believe. One of the things that you don’t want to do with a partner is to disappoint them, so telling them you are going to do something without them may not literally be asking for permission insomuch as it is checking if it would hurt their feelings if they weren’t there for them at that time. But at the end of the day their partner does have a degree of control over them so describing them as a boss isn’t too much of a stretch.
Naturally unhealthy relationships exist as well, but for the most part this kind of behavior is completely normal and healthy.
I don't think the boss description is apt, because bosses have control of their subordinates, but their subordinates don't have control over them.
In a healthy relationship, neither partner wants to disappoint each other, so they each have some degree of control over one another. That doesn't fit with them being a boss at all.
That’s why I said “more true” rather than “true”. I dont think there are anyone entering into a relationship of this kind who is truly relinquishing their control over their life - at least not willingly.
I think the language of "boss" is probably a joke regardless. Needing to check with one's spouse can be anything from being completely checked out from family scheduling and needing your spouse to handle all of that for you, to having a highly controlling spouse, to just wanting to make sure you and your spouse are on the same page before making plans so you don't mess up each others' plans on accident. I don't think making jokes like this tells you much about what the dynamic behind it is directly -- you'd have to surmise that from other evidence.
Yeah, this. At worst, it would tell you they have a controlling partner, and at best, it would it tell you they’re super considerate and want to make sure they aren’t inconveniencing their partner however mildly. You can’t tell anything from it without a lot of additional context.
PS: If anyone has solid references about how to use commas in my second sentence please share it because I yolo‘d it with what felt “good.”
If you mean your second sentence as in the one that starts with "You can't tell...", it's fine without any commas imo. The preceding sentence could use a comma before "however mildly" but is otherwise fine. I don't have a reference other than being that annoying kid in English class in school and the one who edited my friends' essays for them in college, though.
I purposefully removed that comma because I thought 99% of folks would be bothered by it but I agree it’s needed. The however mildly one.
I feel like it makes sense when you're married lol.
My wife is my best friend, and my #1 priority in life is making her happy (for now... no children yet!). When I say "I gotta check with the boss", I'm not literally asking for her permission - I'm usually just confirming with her that we don't have other plans that I may have forgotten about (which happens often).
I think the "check with the boss" phrase specifically is meant to imply "I would like to do this, if I don't have any other obligations" in a more lighthearted way.
While I think there are cases of all three scenarios in play for different people, I suspect that it is "option 3" most of the time. While I never refer to my wife as "the boss" like this, I always run things by her and she does the same for me because we have a particularly demanding family life where at least one of us has to be there essentially at all times. If I just go out, it could be preventing her from going to an appointment, preventing one of the kids from getting to or from an event, or who knows what.
I've had to make it clear to people that thought I was literally asking permission to do things like I was a subordinate in my own home. It is a matter of both respect to your partner and just general logistics.
It sounds like the relationships are pretty equal honestly. Doing something fun that takes time away from family/parenting is a privilege, and it just makes sense to clear this with your spouse first before agreeing, and being excited that you can take some time away from the house is also just....fine? I've never used my family as an excuse not to do something I simply didn't want to do, maybe some people do that. What I would say is that compared to prior generations, Millennials spend more energy on childrearing, and have generally more equitable relationships in regards to who spends time with the children. It'd be insane if I didn't try to work with my wife on childcare plans, just this past weekend I was playing Twilight Imperium with friends so we made sure our daughter was with her grandmother for that time period, so it's not just me having a fun day and my wife being saddled with a toddler with no escape or recourse if she was with her by herself, that's not a good way to manage a relationship and I'd rather my wife be happy even if it means I might miss out on other obligations. Even now, we might have to recuse ourselves from playing a legacy game with the group we started with since the last time we committed the 30hrs over a few weeks we didn't have kids, and we might start playing right when she gives birth to our second. It's an unfortunate reality that I may not get to spend as much time with my friends that don't have kids, that they can game as much as they want and I'll have to miss out from logistics of being a parent....but that's my choice and I'd rather be a good father/husband and I can always pick the gaming back up when they're older. Just my two cents
I think it likely is option 2, which is pretty sad.
I'm married, but if I got a sense that I needed permission to do things, I don't think I'd be married for much longer.
When someone asks me if I can do something that's going to take a while, I don't ask permission, but I do talk to my wife to see if we have anything planned. If she says yes, I will tell them no 99% of the time, because keeping plans with my wife is more important to me than whatever the other thing is. If the thing we have planned is something we're both kinda meh about, and the alternative is great, I'll tell her that I'm going to do the other thing.
I'm an adult, I don't need anyone's permission to do whatever I want.
Part of being an adult is accepting that you have responsibilities though. One of those responsibilities is caring about your spouses feelings, and if I just randomly decided to do things that impact plans we've already made, I wouldn't be living up to that responsibility.
The only issue I ever have with my wife on this front is that sometimes, she will make plans up in her head and not tell me until right beforehand, or have some sort of an expectation that we will do something on a certain day but never let me know that, so if I do something, even after I tell her about it, it disappoints her.
I've had conversations with her about it, and it's just her personality. She's a lot more passive and less willing to actually ask for what she wants than I am, so I have to be careful to not just trample all over her ideas. She's gotten better about actually communicating her future plans with me as well.
It could be that a lot of people are in a similar boat and just use the "permission" thing as shorthand for that.
Every relationship is different, and they change over time. Could be that all of these are true because you’re talking about several people.
My partner has told me he will occasionally do this when he’s invited to something he doesn’t really want to do, but doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. It’s a socially acceptable reason to say no for any reason.
I would guess it's a joke, even though it's in poor taste.
It reminds me of home automation posts on reddit where someone would inevitably say their solution aligns with the "wife acceptance factor (or WAF)." It's sexist and pretty cringy to assume women aren't as capable of using an app to change the color of a lightbulb.
I do understand the posts saying there's likely a bit of truth to it, but I agree with your statement of how the language used needs to go away with the older generations who used it.
Yeah, I think even when the relationship itself is equal, the language of this joke definitely reinforces some very traditional sexist stereotypes. Of course, that doesn't mean the people using it are consciously supporting that (often people making jokes like this will be engaging in some level of irony, after all), but it's definitely an indicator of those throughlines culturally when it comes to gender roles and the household.
I pretty much don't do anything without checking with my wife first, unless it's a minor inconvenience where a quick "hey I'm doing this" text will suffice. The reasons are many-- I genuinely forget things we have planned so in that way she is "the boss" because her memory's much more reliable than my own, I don't want her to worry while I'm out, I want to make sure she's OK with having solo "kid duty" for a while, I just genuinely want to check in with her so we're on the same page with whatever's going on, etc.
Likewise she usually checks in with me about things ahead of time for the same reasons. Honestly we both ask each other for "permission" to do a lot of things...money, how we spend our free time, etc. Not because we have to, but because we want to be on the same page about stuff.
As for the specific language being used, it's probably just a joke. A friend and I are both married and like to joke around like "My wife said I could hang out, did yours?" Not in any sort of sexist "my wife is effectively my mother" kinda way. Just like the idea of that is so absurd, therein lies the joke, also "haha, we used to have to ask for permission to do things as kids", I guess?
I'd like to offer a possible option 4:
The person feels bad asking for the time to play board games. Yes it's a good social activity and these days it's less "weird" but some people still will see games as a waste of time. Maybe the partner thinks the games are stupid, and it's a hard sell when they go home to ask for the time, then it feels like "asking for permission".
That said, I'm completely in the camp that it's unique per relationship, you'll never really know unless you know the people really well. Could be any option, combo of options or something you've not guessed. Maybe some dude calls his wife "boss" in the bedroom and thinks it's fucking hilarious to do it in social company, you do know.
I wanted to make another comment because this touches on a pet peeve of mine that I really hate.
That's using tired gender stereotypes as a sales tactic. Very often, I'll be in situations where I'm likely to be sold to with my wife. That could be walking around home depot, going to a trade expo, going to a really touristy spot on a vacation, and so on.
My wife and I are very similar in that we're both extremely skeptical of people approaching/cold calling/advertising to us about anything, but especially when they're clearly selling something. Both of us would rather just immediately say no, and if we want the thing that is being sold, we come back later after actually weighing our options and deciding if it's a good deal.
One thing that sales people do, and I'm very sure this is intentionally taught at their stupid training retreats, is to try to use my wife against me. They'll say things like "oh, well I understand, your husband doesn't like to spend money, that's rough", or "you know you're supposed to take care of your lady right? Don't you care about making her happy?". They'll try to sell directly to her and cut me out of the conversation if they don't feel they're getting anywhere with me, or they'll try to form an "alliance" with my wife to get her to help them pitch me.
Thankfully, this basically never works, but the entire idea of it is really disgusting to me, and using it will 100% guarantee that I'll go out of my way to never do business with their company again.
It draws on the same old well of tired stereotypes thats behind "wife=bad" humor, or "happy wife happy life" , "gotta ask the boss" and so on. The idea that women are humorless hags with full control of their husband's life and wallet, and that a husbands role is to desperately perform for their wives for the rest of their life to escape being bitched at and nagged.
It's not the kind of relationship dynamic that anyone I know would ever want to be in, and it annoys me when people not only assume that that's the dynamic of my relationship, but try to use that assumption for personal gain.
In a way, this is closer to what I was getting at than the practical angles of couples' decision making. Your comment makes me wonder: men who will say "gotta check with the boss", if they are only saying it in jest, are they saying it that way because they believe this will seem more acceptable to the other guys than saying "sorry, I have plans with my wife and/or kids"? Are they leveraging the same approach or attitude sales people do? Perhaps unknowingly? Or without thinking much of it?
I agree with the sales people pet peeve. Hard no to any salesman who uses this sexist tactic on my and my wife. We usually steer clear of any sales people, but this would be an immediate walk away.
Yeah, I think saying "gotta check with the boss" pretty clearly leans on gender stereotypes and traditional roles, even though it's pretty innocuous.
To illustrate that, I've never heard of a woman saying that about her husband when her friends ask her to do something.
We live in a world of gender roles and sexism, it's impossible for anyone to not absorb some of that even if you're aware of it and make a conscious effort to avoid it.
I don't think it's a big deal overall, although it would be nice to one day live in a world where people don't make assumptions about your personality or relationship dynamic based on your gender.
It would be nice to get there one day.
I agree! At the same time, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater — there's truth in "happy wife, happy life." Married people should prioritize the happiness of their partners, assuming their partners reciprocate. Marriage, ideally, is a mutually beneficial arrangement built on love, respect, and service. When both partners are on the same page about this it's a beautiful thing. Maybe we should update the phrase to remove the misogyny. "Happy spouse, happy house"? I dunno.
OP here. Thank you all for your replies. Amazing how many insightful comments you posted! I read through all of them and voted but I'm at work and can't reply to each one. Most if not all replies show very healthy relationship dynamics and I agree 100% with what you folks are saying. I, too, talk to my partner whenever I make plans; I prioritize her over friends; she does the same when making plans; we are a team. I have no kids, and I realize kids would magnify the need to be on the same page and support each other even more. We do have dogs, so there is a little bit of that in terms of making sure we don't both happen to be away from home for too long at the same time. All good.
A few comments did mention the other facet of it which was more around the choice of language and what kind of gender stereotypes the language we use perpetuates (or abolishes). If I were the one unsure if I could attend an event, I would check with my partner, and give the my friends an answer: yes, I can make it, or No, I can't make it. I wouldn't feel a need to say "I have to ask the boss". I'm not saying I'm not talking to my partner, I'm saying I don't feel the need to publicly state to my friends that I need to talk to my partner first, and even less that I may (in jest or otherwise) imply that there is a power imbalance in the relationship that would make her the boss.
I guess that even in jest I would be worried that the choice of language would send the wrong message, even if the actual conversation with my partner does ultimately involve a sort of "permission", tho I am reluctant to call it "permission". Like many of you said, it's about alignment and openness, respect for the other person and their time, especially when taking care of kids, household, pets, etc. It should definitely be the priority, but I would not use that kind of terminology with other guys.
I'm probably overthinking this whole thing, and honestly I just thought it's an interesting thing: language. Language is powerful, and having studied English lit perhaps I am more aware of what words mean, and try (maybe too hard) to read between the lines and seek meaning beyond face value.
Honestly, even doing this is fine! It's just about the language choice.
If someone told me they needed to "double check with [their] wife" before committing, that's completely valid. If they have a family commitment already, it would be best to come out and just share it, kid related or otherwise.
When you have kids you always have to check something.
If the couple is in constant communication and each has its own agenda with their appointments for the week and weekend, you don't need to check with your partner. You just look at your agenda which reflects your conversations with your partner.
If you are not very organized (or maybe it's too early in the week...), than yes, you have to check with your partner. So it's not much permission but rather "honey, do we have anything schedule for that date and time? Oh yeah? And your mother can't watch him ? I see. Got it. I remember now".
The "permission" is often just a schedule with the things you previously agreed to.