This is bordering on an Onion article. My god, how bad have you built your fridge that it is even technically possible for this to happen. I haven't heard great things about Samsungs home...
This is bordering on an Onion article. My god, how bad have you built your fridge that it is even technically possible for this to happen. I haven't heard great things about Samsungs home appliances, but this makes me avoid them like the plague
Their TVs were not that great either. Tizen was very buggy. It takes talent to make Linux unreliable. Honestly when it comes to phones I came to the conclusion that it was less of a function of...
Their TVs were not that great either. Tizen was very buggy. It takes talent to make Linux unreliable.
Honestly when it comes to phones I came to the conclusion that it was less of a function of Samsung being good and more of a function of everyone else being terrible in comparison.
Samsung is a components manufacturer. They don’t know how to put together a finished consumer product. I regret every Samsung product I’ve ever bought other than an ssd for my desktop.
Samsung is a components manufacturer. They don’t know how to put together a finished consumer product. I regret every Samsung product I’ve ever bought other than an ssd for my desktop.
Software support in general I think has been one of Samsung's weaker points for a while. I used to use Samsung phones for a while and they're just jam-packed with features and customizability,...
Software support in general I think has been one of Samsung's weaker points for a while. I used to use Samsung phones for a while and they're just jam-packed with features and customizability, which can be great. Anecdotally however, I've experienced more buggy updates on my Samsung devices compared to any other device I've owned, which eventually pushed me away from their devices.
There was a OneUI update a few months ago that arbitrarily wiped do not disturb settings. So while my schedule was still being followed, all of my exceptions were ignored, despite being present in...
There was a OneUI update a few months ago that arbitrarily wiped do not disturb settings. So while my schedule was still being followed, all of my exceptions were ignored, despite being present in the UI. This caused me to miss some important PagerDuty notifications when on-call for work. I only figured it out because removing and re-adding the exception suddenly made it work again
I will never own a Samsung anything for my personal use, that's for sure. I already disliked their TVs, monitors, appliances, and components - never tried one of their phones before so thought I would give it a shot when offered at work. Never again (there are a myriad of reasons besides just bad updates)
Also their shady business practices are nothing to scoff at - but what major manufacturer isn't covered head to toe in blood, holding a bag of cash marked "bribe donation"?
All of my family had Samsung phones a few years ago. I spent months teaching my family to use the “smart share” feature Samsung made to share their screen to the chromecasts I had hooked up to...
All of my family had Samsung phones a few years ago. I spent months teaching my family to use the “smart share” feature Samsung made to share their screen to the chromecasts I had hooked up to every TV. Then Samsung pushed an update where they decided that smart share just won’t support chromecasts anymore.
Now they are all on apple devices. Love them or hate them, apple mostly doesn’t get rid of features that already exist and work.
I regularly troubleshoot Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connections to various consumer electronic devices, and about two thirds of my calls are iPhone, and the rest are Android, and of those Androids I...
I regularly troubleshoot Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connections to various consumer electronic devices, and about two thirds of my calls are iPhone, and the rest are Android, and of those Androids I don't think I've ever worked on a non-Samsung phone in the US or Canada, and our EU customers never seem to have problems at all.
Let me tell you true; Samsung phones are hands down the bane of my existence as a troubleshooter. When they work, they're only a little broken but mostly fine. When they fully break (and they often do break because I'm convinced that Samsung's godawful OneUI is programmed by sadists) they break bad and it's always a colossal struggle to figure out how they broke and how to unbreak them. I shouldn't have to be on the phone for 3 hours trying to decipher just what the actual flip Samsung decided to do to their network connections in this latest update.
That's been my (extremely limited) mobile development experience. I interned at a company and worked on the mobile app for one of their products with millions of total downloads. The majority of...
That's been my (extremely limited) mobile development experience. I interned at a company and worked on the mobile app for one of their products with millions of total downloads. The majority of our bug tickets came from Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei and other Chinese OEMs. These OEMs heavily modify core system APIs without always maintaining the base functionality, which causes a whole lotta issues and makes it annoying to debug.
It's absolutely ridiculous and I tell people that if they're going to get an Android they need to stick to Google's own devices since LG (who actually made decent phones) doesn't make phones...
It's absolutely ridiculous and I tell people that if they're going to get an Android they need to stick to Google's own devices since LG (who actually made decent phones) doesn't make phones anymore. Motorola also makes Androids but I've never used them so I can't speak to their quality. I'm about ready to turn in my iPhone and I'm half tempted to switch over to a non-Samsung Android of some kind. That or get a dumb phone for my calling/texting needs and just use my iPad mini for everything else. I've been pondering.
I think Samsung is just terrible at software. They try to make all of their appliances “smart” and it makes them more difficult to use as, you know, appliances.
I think Samsung is just terrible at software. They try to make all of their appliances “smart” and it makes them more difficult to use as, you know, appliances.
The place I worked for, they wouldn't carry Samsung appliances. If a customer was insisting on Samsung, we gave them warnings about the problems, then ordered them. The refrigerators have had...
The place I worked for, they wouldn't carry Samsung appliances. If a customer was insisting on Samsung, we gave them warnings about the problems, then ordered them.
The refrigerators have had board issues for more than a decade, before smart appliances were even a thing.
Their dryers were so cheaply built: they would lose round in shipping, the bulkheads would slowly collapse, and the elements for the electric models would blow frequently. Compared to any other brands elements going out was uncommon, it happened, but not even a quarter as sumsungs
I have first hand experience with Samsung software. It’s abysmal. Imagine how bad it is, it’s way worse than that. Build quality isn’t amazing either and they do the apple thing about it “what...
I have first hand experience with Samsung software. It’s abysmal. Imagine how bad it is, it’s way worse than that. Build quality isn’t amazing either and they do the apple thing about it “what problem, what recall? There is no problem, you’re holding it wrong”
I steer well clear of anything made by Samsung and this has served me well for the last 15 years. Except chips, in talking about appliances and products.
Logically and morally the company is liable for full cost of replacing the food plus reasonable damages. Legally probably not and even if it was, the cost is likely not worth suing over. There is...
Logically and morally the company is liable for full cost of replacing the food plus reasonable damages. Legally probably not and even if it was, the cost is likely not worth suing over.
There is really no physical equivalent but the closest would be a technician coming over to make the fridge better as the only stated reason and the fridge breaking after he left.
Realistically this is to be expected with a "smart" thing and will keep happening until it is cheaper for the company to not have it happen. Or until enough people realize the problematic elements of having your property remotely controlled by some random party and refuse to purchase this.
But if I don't order the repairman, the company sends the repairman and the thing the repairman does breaks the fridge, it's much more obvious the company is at fault. If any repairman breaks the...
But if I don't order the repairman, the company sends the repairman and the thing the repairman does breaks the fridge, it's much more obvious the company is at fault.
If any repairman breaks the fridge it's generally their fault. It didn't passively break, the actions of the repairman broke it.
Passive voice lets them off the hook but the actions don't.
And the solution could be government regulation, or insurance subrogation, or the company making it right up front, not just "well, can't expect anything else. There are more ethical options that exist currently.
The thing is the update wasn't passive in any way. The company made it, presumably tested it or not and sent it out. That it is not physical gives it just enough ambiguity to not be covered by the...
The thing is the update wasn't passive in any way. The company made it, presumably tested it or not and sent it out.
That it is not physical gives it just enough ambiguity to not be covered by the precedents a physical action would be. This is being exploited to truly astonishing levels everywhere these past decades.
I was pointing out the passive language use was indicative of the problem "it broke" vs "they broke it". It certainly isn't the first device bricking by an update, there's precedent and the...
I was pointing out the passive language use was indicative of the problem "it broke" vs "they broke it".
It certainly isn't the first device bricking by an update, there's precedent and the company could still act ethically or government could regulate. But I don't think it's just "what you should expect". It's a risk, but that doesn't make the victim at fault. Especially folks who didnt even buy their own fridge, but got it with the house/landlord
While I haven’t read the EULA I would guess the buyers of these “smart” fridges agreed to terms, that are more or less equivalent to allowing a repairmen into their home at all times without prior...
While I haven’t read the EULA I would guess the buyers of these “smart” fridges agreed to terms, that are more or less equivalent to allowing a repairmen into their home at all times without prior notice with zero liability.
Even when I let a repairman in, if he breaks my fridge he's liable. This isn't a hard decision, it's only because government won't act to regulate it and companies won't act ethically (insurance...
Even when I let a repairman in, if he breaks my fridge he's liable. This isn't a hard decision, it's only because government won't act to regulate it and companies won't act ethically (insurance suing en masse might work but individuals are still out a deductible in that case).
A licensed and bonded repairman should be insured against just this, you are correct: if they break it, their insurance should cover making you, their customer, whole again.
A licensed and bonded repairman should be insured against just this, you are correct: if they break it, their insurance should cover making you, their customer, whole again.
I've read that most EULAs and TOSs are filled with entirely unlawful statements and agreements, and almost never hold up in court. The problem is that you have to actually take it to court, which...
I've read that most EULAs and TOSs are filled with entirely unlawful statements and agreements, and almost never hold up in court. The problem is that you have to actually take it to court, which is obviously pretty much impossible for any regular person against a trillion dollar company.
I have taken a dangerous amount of law classes (so more than zero, but not enough to actually be competent) and I can say with absolute certainty that almost everything in EULAs and TOSs is...
I have taken a dangerous amount of law classes (so more than zero, but not enough to actually be competent) and I can say with absolute certainty that almost everything in EULAs and TOSs is completely bogus by german law, starting with the fact that it's often brought to your attention after the contract (of sale, of the fridge) is already done. Once we consider that the terms have to be clear, and no more complex than the subject matter of the contract requires, and that the terms may not unjustly benefit the business, almost all EULAs and TOSs have substantial attack surface.
Agreed though, you have to take it to court. I'd love for us to have an agency that randomly picks big companies' TOSs, picks them apart, and issues massive fines in proportion to the expected damage to consumers.
I've yet to personally see a device where the ToS was transparently presented at point of sale as part of the contract. That should make it automatically void. If agreed to after under any but...
I've yet to personally see a device where the ToS was transparently presented at point of sale as part of the contract. That should make it automatically void. If agreed to after under any but transparent opt in conditions it should be void too. And even then rendering functions not related to agreed to service nonfuctional should have liability regardless.
Legally, who knows but not many people have the means to sue something that size.
A contract negotiated by single party and signed by one with no legal counsel, essentially by coercion since you've already bought a product, is legally questionable. Despite what the world has...
A contract negotiated by single party and signed by one with no legal counsel, essentially by coercion since you've already bought a product, is legally questionable. Despite what the world has suddenly pretended is reasonable in recent decades.
Actually taking them to court, EULAs are probably effectively toilet paper in a lot of cases. Just like when Disney tries to get out of a wrongful death suit because a Disney+ EULA says you're subject to arbitration.
The remedy here is either a class action lawsuit OR it's for everyone to file a claim against their home owner's or renter's insurance policy for the cost of the food. If they're like me and all...
The remedy here is either a class action lawsuit OR it's for everyone to file a claim against their home owner's or renter's insurance policy for the cost of the food. If they're like me and all of their orders are done digitally, they should have receipts capable of helping them determine and prove the full cost of the contents. When that's done, the insurance companies will likely look at suing Samsung as their own separate class to recover damages for payouts to customer.
But honestly if anything I see the class action being more likely to move forward than the second one. The second one kinda sucks for the consumer because their rates are for sure going to go up for filing a claim.
I will bet you a nonzero amount of money that in order to use the features of the fridge users were forced to click through a terms of use agreement which included a binding arbitration and class...
I will bet you a nonzero amount of money that in order to use the features of the fridge users were forced to click through a terms of use agreement which included a binding arbitration and class action waiver clauses.
That's why I included the second thing about filing a claim with your insurance provider; you get relief at the cost of higher rates down the line (if your insurance company will even take the...
That's why I included the second thing about filing a claim with your insurance provider; you get relief at the cost of higher rates down the line (if your insurance company will even take the claim--this is something they usually will do for loss of power in a catastrophic weather scenario, but they may not for something like "fridge did an uh-oh".) The insurance company signed no waiver of rights to sue, and you can't contract away their rights to seek recompense.
But to be honest, a lot of times those waivers of rights have legal defects that a good lawyer can attack, and still build a case. Just because a company makes you sign a "you can't sue me" piece of paper doesn't mean that you can't, in fact, sue them. You may try.
I know most here are probably in the same boat as me, but what's the actual point of a "smart fridge"? Why would you need any extra tech in a cold box for your food? In what way does having...
I know most here are probably in the same boat as me, but what's the actual point of a "smart fridge"? Why would you need any extra tech in a cold box for your food? In what way does having internet connectivity in your fridge make it any better?
I don't understand why anybody would buy something like this.
This always baffles me! The inherent uselessness of these smart features is right there. I said as much to a colleague buying a smart washing machine. You don't need a remote start button, you're...
Practically, I press the start button because I've just loaded the clothes with my physical form.
This always baffles me! The inherent uselessness of these smart features is right there. I said as much to a colleague buying a smart washing machine. You don't need a remote start button, you're physically at the machine when you load the clothes! You kinda have to be.
There is a case for putting in a load just before you're leaving for work or something where you'll be gone for a significant amount of time. If you start it when you put the clothes in, by the...
There is a case for putting in a load just before you're leaving for work or something where you'll be gone for a significant amount of time. If you start it when you put the clothes in, by the time you get back, your clothes will get mildewy. But if you time it to start such that you get home right when it finishes, you can immediately throw them take them out.
Or at least that would be my argument if literally every single washer didn't have a delay start button. Out with the "smart" machines!
I think the real advancement for this use-case is the all in one washer/dryer combos where you can just hit a button and come back 3 hours later to clean and dry clothes. Yeah, it takes longer, in...
I think the real advancement for this use-case is the all in one washer/dryer combos where you can just hit a button and come back 3 hours later to clean and dry clothes. Yeah, it takes longer, in part due to the heat pump dryer, but they're efficient and don't need an external exhaust vent. The reviews on these aren't great either though, so it seems like there are some engineering issues to overcome. I really want one of these, but I'm waiting for the tech to mature.
My understanding is that the GE heat pump washer dryer combo is kind of the sweet spot for these machines. I'd looked into them about a year and a half ago and found that the GEs appeared to be...
My understanding is that the GE heat pump washer dryer combo is kind of the sweet spot for these machines. I'd looked into them about a year and a half ago and found that the GEs appeared to be the most reliable and the one people complained about the least. It also had the fewest "smart" features which I think is a big part of that reliability.
So if you're interested in getting a combo machine right now, definitely look into the GE version.
IIRC both Westinghouse and whirlpool are both completely defunct in the United States and are both just brands licensed to Haier, a Chinese appliance manufacturer. Edit: actually maybe they don’t...
IIRC both Westinghouse and whirlpool are both completely defunct in the United States and are both just brands licensed to Haier, a Chinese appliance manufacturer.
I have a lot of respect for Haier these days. They don’t try to reinvent the wheel and they aren’t trying to make everything controllable only through apps or AI, most of the time.
Edit: actually maybe they don’t do that last part.
Yeah I have Samsungs and while I do have the app - it let me check on things at home when we had a less.... Trustworthy... assistant for my partner - it's not really particularly useful. Maybe the...
Yeah I have Samsungs and while I do have the app - it let me check on things at home when we had a less.... Trustworthy... assistant for my partner - it's not really particularly useful. Maybe the load sensing does something? Idk.
We had a Samsung washer at my old place, and the handy part was we could have a load going, walk down the street to my in-laws and be notified when it was finished and then go back to hang it....
We had a Samsung washer at my old place, and the handy part was we could have a load going, walk down the street to my in-laws and be notified when it was finished and then go back to hang it.
Other than that, felt unnecessary. We have another Samsung machine in our new place and I never bothered with the app.
We still have dumb appliances in the US, yes, although sometimes the dumb version of something is much more expensive than the "smart" version of something. LG, for instance, lists 2 nearly...
We still have dumb appliances in the US, yes, although sometimes the dumb version of something is much more expensive than the "smart" version of something.
LG, for instance, lists 2 nearly identical fridges on Best Buy's website that look the same except the price tags and the one with the Smart display. The dumb fridge with the two freezer drawers on the bottom and the French doors for the main fridge, along with a water dispenser is ~$2400 USD. The one that's identical with a Smart component is ~$1900 USD. I save $500 going with the "Smart" version. But honestly, I wouldn't bother as most of the other fridges have similar features I might want that are much more reasonable, < $1000 USD an they're completely offline.
Most of the electric ovens and ranges I can find are dumb, which is nice. Same thing with microwaves (in fact, a cursory search turns up zero "smart" microwaves.) Same dishwashers.
Most of the affordably priced dumb clothes washers and dryers are brands like LG, GE, and Maytag.
In the US we definitely have dumb options. We've spoken with our wallets, I guess.
Are used appliances not a thing any more? About ten years ago, our dryer died and we went to a used appliance shop, paid maybe $100 for a new old one of about the same vintage and it worked like a...
Even if you could afford replacing them, it'd be hard to find non 'smart' appliances. Maybe it's different in the US because I think Westinghouse and Whirlpool are based there.
Are used appliances not a thing any more? About ten years ago, our dryer died and we went to a used appliance shop, paid maybe $100 for a new old one of about the same vintage and it worked like a charm. Not the most efficient of course, but that can be offset by line drying clothes.
Some of the problem is parts availability for old appliances. Control board goes out? If you can find it it's $600+ for just the board, not including install. The mechanical parts are getting hard...
Some of the problem is parts availability for old appliances. Control board goes out? If you can find it it's $600+ for just the board, not including install. The mechanical parts are getting hard to find, or phased out too
I think how they pitch it is you can see your calendar and weather on the door and see a webcam of the inside of the fridge while you are at the supermarket. But in reality the smart stuff is more...
I think how they pitch it is you can see your calendar and weather on the door and see a webcam of the inside of the fridge while you are at the supermarket.
But in reality the smart stuff is more a feature for Samsung themselves so they can show adverts, collect data, and obsolete the fridge faster so you buy the new model that still gets updates after your last one gets hacked and turned in to a scraper for AI botnets.
Yeah, I mean, the idea is fucking stupid, but it kinda makes sense I GUESS? If you really want a calendar on your fridge? What's extremely stupid is that the "smart" part of the fridge (I'm...
Yeah, I mean, the idea is fucking stupid, but it kinda makes sense I GUESS? If you really want a calendar on your fridge?
What's extremely stupid is that the "smart" part of the fridge (I'm assuming it's basically a tablet just internally mounted into the fridge) has any sort of integration whatsoever with the refrigeration loop. What could be the possible purpose of that? What benefit would there be?
It’s obvious isn’t it? If you are on vacation and your roommate drinks your milk, your refrigerator can log it and you can then choose to reverse the loop, heating the contents and destroying all...
It’s obvious isn’t it? If you are on vacation and your roommate drinks your milk, your refrigerator can log it and you can then choose to reverse the loop, heating the contents and destroying all the food and maybe even their medications. That’s gonna teach them their lesson!
That webcam isn't ever going to show you what you actually need to know, right? "Do we have any X left?" "Not sure, there's too much Y in the fridge" The rest is IMO better solved by putting a...
That webcam isn't ever going to show you what you actually need to know, right? "Do we have any X left?" "Not sure, there's too much Y in the fridge"
The rest is IMO better solved by putting a mounting point for a (samsung?) tablet on the front, plus a USB socket for power. Bonus, because you can mount that tablet by the door, or anywhere else you please. In fact, I want something like that, to the extent that I'll probably cook one up out of a raspi and a e-ink display at some point. But to bolt that to the fridge permanently? The mind boggles.
I have a (dumb) calendar on my fridge. I would actually appreciate a smart calendar and some sort of access to a HomeAssistant panel on my fridge just because it does seem like an almost natural...
I have a (dumb) calendar on my fridge. I would actually appreciate a smart calendar and some sort of access to a HomeAssistant panel on my fridge just because it does seem like an almost natural place for it. In practice I wouldn't consider such a thing unless it was basically unlocked (so I could do stuff to it) and if I was convinced the fridge would work without it, I could replace it MYSELF if it broke, and ideally if there was a planned way to upgrade it in 5-10 years when it becomes out of date.
Couldn't you just like... Mount a tablet to your fridge? That way, when the tablet becomes obsolete in 10 years, and can't run modern apps because the OS won't support it, you could just buy a new...
Couldn't you just like... Mount a tablet to your fridge?
That way, when the tablet becomes obsolete in 10 years, and can't run modern apps because the OS won't support it, you could just buy a new tablet instead of throwing out your entire fridge.
Then I would have to run power to it or charge it all the time and it would probably get knocked off ...because that's what happens in my house... At the end of the day I'm not doing either thing...
Then I would have to run power to it or charge it all the time and it would probably get knocked off ...because that's what happens in my house...
At the end of the day I'm not doing either thing because they both suck for different reasons.
First thing - what do you need smart fridge for? Will it look for your food and its "best before" dates on its own? Will it order beer when I take the last one out? Is it able to move the meat...
First thing - what do you need smart fridge for? Will it look for your food and its "best before" dates on its own? Will it order beer when I take the last one out? Is it able to move the meat from freezer to the fridge so it can thaw out before need it for cooking?
Second - Call me old school or paranoid or whatever, but dumb appliances just work more reliably. My oven died on me years ago - the thing that died wasn't even smart! It was that clock/timer thing that just runs the oven at specified time, otherwise the oven is old school bimetal thermostat driven... I just bypassed the clock/timer thing and oven works like new. Adding "smart" into basic things makes them worse. I don't need you to change my mind, I don't even think about changing it.
We own an LG refrigerator. I really didn't want to buy one because they already have a bad name for their fridges. It has their "ThinQ" AI technology and I have already told my husband I will...
I imagine the fridge have processing power of at most smartphone. That would mean AI magic happens elsewhere. Where is that elsewhere? It's far from the place you call "home". I think you made...
I imagine the fridge have processing power of at most smartphone. That would mean AI magic happens elsewhere. Where is that elsewhere? It's far from the place you call "home". I think you made good choice by not enabling it on your fridge.
Assuming its actually “AI”. Most stuff like that labeled AI is just a slightly fancier version of the “popcorn” button on your microwave (don’t use that button either).
Assuming its actually “AI”. Most stuff like that labeled AI is just a slightly fancier version of the “popcorn” button on your microwave (don’t use that button either).
You just reminded me of great Technology Connections' video. EDIT: For the (previously) bad link to the video, please accept this one about refgidgerators as my apology.
Oh, sorry! I don't watch videos on Youtube and this one popped in my search and looked legit on first look. My bad! I changed the link in my post. Thank you for pointing that out.
Oh, sorry! I don't watch videos on Youtube and this one popped in my search and looked legit on first look. My bad! I changed the link in my post. Thank you for pointing that out.
When I looked in to the LG fridge thing, what they mean by AI is it has a temperature sensor that turns the compressor on and off to keep the fridge at the right temperature.
When I looked in to the LG fridge thing, what they mean by AI is it has a temperature sensor that turns the compressor on and off to keep the fridge at the right temperature.
LOL Well, we have this in really old fridges as well, it's also a temperature sensor that turns compressor on and off and it's called bimetallic strip. I guess we already lived in AI era even over...
LOL
Well, we have this in really old fridges as well, it's also a temperature sensor that turns compressor on and off and it's called bimetallic strip. I guess we already lived in AI era even over 100 years ago by the LG logic.
It's most effective at building up ice, locking up the fan and causing the whole fridge to fail. I've got to pull everything out of the freezer and melt the build up with a hair dryer every week...
It's most effective at building up ice, locking up the fan and causing the whole fridge to fail. I've got to pull everything out of the freezer and melt the build up with a hair dryer every week or two. Repair guy couldn't do anything since it mechanically works.
Surprisingly, I think the answer to these is "kind of." There are some fridges that have expiration timers, track inventory, and will help add items to your cart or shipping list if you run out....
Will it order beer when I take the last one out? Is it able to move the meat from freezer to the fridge so it can thaw out before need it for cooking?
Surprisingly, I think the answer to these is "kind of."
There are some fridges that have expiration timers, track inventory, and will help add items to your cart or shipping list if you run out. There are also some that have compartments that can switch between fridge and freezer temp, which functionally could be similar to moving an item from freezer to fridge.
These are only mildly interesting, but I guess some advancememts are being made. I'd never get a smart fridge in their current form though. Still seems like more hassle than convenience.
I guess the line would be "when the main function of the device is controlled by smart". If the fridge does what it should independently of the smart part of it, then ok - if the smart dies, I...
I guess the line would be "when the main function of the device is controlled by smart". If the fridge does what it should independently of the smart part of it, then ok - if the smart dies, I still have dumb fridge.
Expiration timers would be very nice actually, but it would have to work based on scanner - I just turn the date(code) to some camera thing and it will find and input everything for me. If it doesn't, then I can as well just set up calendar notification...
Some other functions could be great, ie. the switchable cobtainer. But that could likely be made with dumb freezer as well (apart from timer on that).
I don't say there is nothing to be gained by smartyfing the fridge, but in the current world and state - no, thanks. I don't want everyone to know my favorite beer and how much I enjoy it (and that would be the least concern of mine).
This reminds me of how last year, smart beds got bricked by the AWS outage. Those beds apparently lacked an offline mode, which is just... so basic. On a more relevant note, this feels like...
On a more relevant note, this feels like another part of the "users ARE the QA testers" trend that seems to be growing with horrifically untested updates. This feels like something that should have been caught in testing given how widespread it is.
At least it's only in South Korea and not global, but it's also the worst timing since it's right before Chuseok. I don't know much about it, but I've heard it compared to American Thanksgiving, which gives a good idea of how bad it is for a fridge to stop working before THIS holiday. I remember our ice maker broke right before we hosted Thanksgiving one year, and even THAT was an issue. Can't imagine having the entire fridge being unusable.
This all just reinforces my decision to avoid smart appliances. Our stove/oven has a Wi-Fi button, but I have never used it so no clue what it does.
Does anyone have experience with leaving their smart devices offline permanently? I have a Samsung smart TV, but I've never given it my wifi password. I have an external box for it so it's...
Does anyone have experience with leaving their smart devices offline permanently?
I have a Samsung smart TV, but I've never given it my wifi password. I have an external box for it so it's literally just never gone online.
I also have an LG window air conditioner that is "smart", but it's also never been online. I can control it just fine with the remote, and even set a schedule for while I'm out of town so the house is nice and cool when we get back from vacation.
My washer/dryer and dishwasher have smart features. I never connected them and they work fine. My TV also has smart features, but again I've never connected that to wifi (when I want to use...
My washer/dryer and dishwasher have smart features. I never connected them and they work fine. My TV also has smart features, but again I've never connected that to wifi (when I want to use streaming services on it I use my Xbox). Obviously the TV's own streaming apps only work if connected to wifi, and annoyingly casting also requires it to have Internet access, but otherwise it works fine.
Actually there is one problem: the washing machine's detergent auto dosing feature is only configurable in app, not with the physical controls, so that feature is unavailable since I use it offline.
I have a commercial display Samsung for my TV that can do (gestures broadly) other things if given the chance, it is not connected to the internet. I have a GE washing machine that has a sticker...
I have a commercial display Samsung for my TV that can do (gestures broadly) other things if given the chance, it is not connected to the internet.
I have a GE washing machine that has a sticker that says it can do all sorts of things if I download an app and give it a chance, it is not connected to the internet.
I have a Hisense window unit in my office also has an app or whatever if given the chance, it is not connected to the internet.
I have battery powered tools that would like me to connect to an app, I will not do so.
All things work just fine without internet access. None will ever be provided it.
Not if it’s a Samsung! My dad has owned a Samsung fridge for many years (a dumb one), and since the beginning it makes loud pops because Samsung has a defect on many of their fridges where the...
The obvious alternative, of course, is to avoid fridges that get updates altogether. Dumb fridges can suddenly break too, but that usually doesn’t happen if that fridge’s hardware components are all working properly and if it’s just a year or two old.
Not if it’s a Samsung! My dad has owned a Samsung fridge for many years (a dumb one), and since the beginning it makes loud pops because Samsung has a defect on many of their fridges where the coolant has air mixed in (factory error). You’d think they’d replace it under warranty or goodwill but no they’ve been fighting him telling him he’s holding it wrong. He eventually gave up on it and replaced it with a more reputable brand. Samsung sucks.
This is bordering on an Onion article. My god, how bad have you built your fridge that it is even technically possible for this to happen. I haven't heard great things about Samsungs home appliances, but this makes me avoid them like the plague
I've heard pretty much everything outside of screens and phones is very iffy with Samsung, especially home appliances.
Their TVs were not that great either. Tizen was very buggy. It takes talent to make Linux unreliable.
Honestly when it comes to phones I came to the conclusion that it was less of a function of Samsung being good and more of a function of everyone else being terrible in comparison.
Samsung is a components manufacturer. They don’t know how to put together a finished consumer product. I regret every Samsung product I’ve ever bought other than an ssd for my desktop.
Software support in general I think has been one of Samsung's weaker points for a while. I used to use Samsung phones for a while and they're just jam-packed with features and customizability, which can be great. Anecdotally however, I've experienced more buggy updates on my Samsung devices compared to any other device I've owned, which eventually pushed me away from their devices.
There was a OneUI update a few months ago that arbitrarily wiped do not disturb settings. So while my schedule was still being followed, all of my exceptions were ignored, despite being present in the UI. This caused me to miss some important PagerDuty notifications when on-call for work. I only figured it out because removing and re-adding the exception suddenly made it work again
I will never own a Samsung anything for my personal use, that's for sure. I already disliked their TVs, monitors, appliances, and components - never tried one of their phones before so thought I would give it a shot when offered at work. Never again (there are a myriad of reasons besides just bad updates)
Also their shady business practices are nothing to scoff at - but what major manufacturer isn't covered head to toe in blood, holding a bag of cash marked "
bribedonation"?All of my family had Samsung phones a few years ago. I spent months teaching my family to use the “smart share” feature Samsung made to share their screen to the chromecasts I had hooked up to every TV. Then Samsung pushed an update where they decided that smart share just won’t support chromecasts anymore.
Now they are all on apple devices. Love them or hate them, apple mostly doesn’t get rid of features that already exist and work.
I regularly troubleshoot Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connections to various consumer electronic devices, and about two thirds of my calls are iPhone, and the rest are Android, and of those Androids I don't think I've ever worked on a non-Samsung phone in the US or Canada, and our EU customers never seem to have problems at all.
Let me tell you true; Samsung phones are hands down the bane of my existence as a troubleshooter. When they work, they're only a little broken but mostly fine. When they fully break (and they often do break because I'm convinced that Samsung's godawful OneUI is programmed by sadists) they break bad and it's always a colossal struggle to figure out how they broke and how to unbreak them. I shouldn't have to be on the phone for 3 hours trying to decipher just what the actual flip Samsung decided to do to their network connections in this latest update.
That's been my (extremely limited) mobile development experience. I interned at a company and worked on the mobile app for one of their products with millions of total downloads. The majority of our bug tickets came from Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei and other Chinese OEMs. These OEMs heavily modify core system APIs without always maintaining the base functionality, which causes a whole lotta issues and makes it annoying to debug.
It's absolutely ridiculous and I tell people that if they're going to get an Android they need to stick to Google's own devices since LG (who actually made decent phones) doesn't make phones anymore. Motorola also makes Androids but I've never used them so I can't speak to their quality. I'm about ready to turn in my iPhone and I'm half tempted to switch over to a non-Samsung Android of some kind. That or get a dumb phone for my calling/texting needs and just use my iPad mini for everything else. I've been pondering.
I think Samsung is just terrible at software. They try to make all of their appliances “smart” and it makes them more difficult to use as, you know, appliances.
The place I worked for, they wouldn't carry Samsung appliances. If a customer was insisting on Samsung, we gave them warnings about the problems, then ordered them.
The refrigerators have had board issues for more than a decade, before smart appliances were even a thing.
Their dryers were so cheaply built: they would lose round in shipping, the bulkheads would slowly collapse, and the elements for the electric models would blow frequently. Compared to any other brands elements going out was uncommon, it happened, but not even a quarter as sumsungs
I have first hand experience with Samsung software. It’s abysmal. Imagine how bad it is, it’s way worse than that. Build quality isn’t amazing either and they do the apple thing about it “what problem, what recall? There is no problem, you’re holding it wrong”
I steer well clear of anything made by Samsung and this has served me well for the last 15 years. Except chips, in talking about appliances and products.
Logically and morally the company is liable for full cost of replacing the food plus reasonable damages. Legally probably not and even if it was, the cost is likely not worth suing over.
There is really no physical equivalent but the closest would be a technician coming over to make the fridge better as the only stated reason and the fridge breaking after he left.
Realistically this is to be expected with a "smart" thing and will keep happening until it is cheaper for the company to not have it happen. Or until enough people realize the problematic elements of having your property remotely controlled by some random party and refuse to purchase this.
But if I don't order the repairman, the company sends the repairman and the thing the repairman does breaks the fridge, it's much more obvious the company is at fault.
If any repairman breaks the fridge it's generally their fault. It didn't passively break, the actions of the repairman broke it.
Passive voice lets them off the hook but the actions don't.
And the solution could be government regulation, or insurance subrogation, or the company making it right up front, not just "well, can't expect anything else. There are more ethical options that exist currently.
The thing is the update wasn't passive in any way. The company made it, presumably tested it or not and sent it out.
That it is not physical gives it just enough ambiguity to not be covered by the precedents a physical action would be. This is being exploited to truly astonishing levels everywhere these past decades.
I was pointing out the passive language use was indicative of the problem "it broke" vs "they broke it".
It certainly isn't the first device bricking by an update, there's precedent and the company could still act ethically or government could regulate. But I don't think it's just "what you should expect". It's a risk, but that doesn't make the victim at fault. Especially folks who didnt even buy their own fridge, but got it with the house/landlord
While I haven’t read the EULA I would guess the buyers of these “smart” fridges agreed to terms, that are more or less equivalent to allowing a repairmen into their home at all times without prior notice with zero liability.
Even when I let a repairman in, if he breaks my fridge he's liable. This isn't a hard decision, it's only because government won't act to regulate it and companies won't act ethically (insurance suing en masse might work but individuals are still out a deductible in that case).
A licensed and bonded repairman should be insured against just this, you are correct: if they break it, their insurance should cover making you, their customer, whole again.
Especially one directly employed by the manufacturer! Which is what the software update would be equivalent to.
I've read that most EULAs and TOSs are filled with entirely unlawful statements and agreements, and almost never hold up in court. The problem is that you have to actually take it to court, which is obviously pretty much impossible for any regular person against a trillion dollar company.
I have taken a dangerous amount of law classes (so more than zero, but not enough to actually be competent) and I can say with absolute certainty that almost everything in EULAs and TOSs is completely bogus by german law, starting with the fact that it's often brought to your attention after the contract (of sale, of the fridge) is already done. Once we consider that the terms have to be clear, and no more complex than the subject matter of the contract requires, and that the terms may not unjustly benefit the business, almost all EULAs and TOSs have substantial attack surface.
Agreed though, you have to take it to court. I'd love for us to have an agency that randomly picks big companies' TOSs, picks them apart, and issues massive fines in proportion to the expected damage to consumers.
I've yet to personally see a device where the ToS was transparently presented at point of sale as part of the contract. That should make it automatically void. If agreed to after under any but transparent opt in conditions it should be void too. And even then rendering functions not related to agreed to service nonfuctional should have liability regardless.
Legally, who knows but not many people have the means to sue something that size.
A contract negotiated by single party and signed by one with no legal counsel, essentially by coercion since you've already bought a product, is legally questionable. Despite what the world has suddenly pretended is reasonable in recent decades.
Actually taking them to court, EULAs are probably effectively toilet paper in a lot of cases. Just like when Disney tries to get out of a wrongful death suit because a Disney+ EULA says you're subject to arbitration.
The remedy here is either a class action lawsuit OR it's for everyone to file a claim against their home owner's or renter's insurance policy for the cost of the food. If they're like me and all of their orders are done digitally, they should have receipts capable of helping them determine and prove the full cost of the contents. When that's done, the insurance companies will likely look at suing Samsung as their own separate class to recover damages for payouts to customer.
But honestly if anything I see the class action being more likely to move forward than the second one. The second one kinda sucks for the consumer because their rates are for sure going to go up for filing a claim.
I will bet you a nonzero amount of money that in order to use the features of the fridge users were forced to click through a terms of use agreement which included a binding arbitration and class action waiver clauses.
That's why I included the second thing about filing a claim with your insurance provider; you get relief at the cost of higher rates down the line (if your insurance company will even take the claim--this is something they usually will do for loss of power in a catastrophic weather scenario, but they may not for something like "fridge did an uh-oh".) The insurance company signed no waiver of rights to sue, and you can't contract away their rights to seek recompense.
But to be honest, a lot of times those waivers of rights have legal defects that a good lawyer can attack, and still build a case. Just because a company makes you sign a "you can't sue me" piece of paper doesn't mean that you can't, in fact, sue them. You may try.
I know most here are probably in the same boat as me, but what's the actual point of a "smart fridge"? Why would you need any extra tech in a cold box for your food? In what way does having internet connectivity in your fridge make it any better?
I don't understand why anybody would buy something like this.
I don't either, but my house came with smart laundry machines and I didn't have a choice about it and can't afford replacing it.
This always baffles me! The inherent uselessness of these smart features is right there. I said as much to a colleague buying a smart washing machine. You don't need a remote start button, you're physically at the machine when you load the clothes! You kinda have to be.
There is a case for putting in a load just before you're leaving for work or something where you'll be gone for a significant amount of time. If you start it when you put the clothes in, by the time you get back, your clothes will get mildewy. But if you time it to start such that you get home right when it finishes, you can immediately throw them take them out.
Or at least that would be my argument if literally every single washer didn't have a delay start button. Out with the "smart" machines!
I think the real advancement for this use-case is the all in one washer/dryer combos where you can just hit a button and come back 3 hours later to clean and dry clothes. Yeah, it takes longer, in part due to the heat pump dryer, but they're efficient and don't need an external exhaust vent. The reviews on these aren't great either though, so it seems like there are some engineering issues to overcome. I really want one of these, but I'm waiting for the tech to mature.
My understanding is that the GE heat pump washer dryer combo is kind of the sweet spot for these machines. I'd looked into them about a year and a half ago and found that the GEs appeared to be the most reliable and the one people complained about the least. It also had the fewest "smart" features which I think is a big part of that reliability.
So if you're interested in getting a combo machine right now, definitely look into the GE version.
I don't doubt that they will remove the physical button at some point.
IIRC both Westinghouse and whirlpool are both completely defunct in the United States and are both just brands licensed to Haier, a Chinese appliance manufacturer.
I have a lot of respect for Haier these days. They don’t try to reinvent the wheel and they aren’t trying to make everything controllable only through apps or AI, most of the time.Edit: actually maybe they don’t do that last part.
GE is. Whirlpool is still its own company, with an umbrella of brands (Maytag, Amana, KitchenAid).
Yeah I have Samsungs and while I do have the app - it let me check on things at home when we had a less.... Trustworthy... assistant for my partner - it's not really particularly useful. Maybe the load sensing does something? Idk.
We had a Samsung washer at my old place, and the handy part was we could have a load going, walk down the street to my in-laws and be notified when it was finished and then go back to hang it.
Other than that, felt unnecessary. We have another Samsung machine in our new place and I never bothered with the app.
Haha they'll appreciate it!
We still have dumb appliances in the US, yes, although sometimes the dumb version of something is much more expensive than the "smart" version of something.
LG, for instance, lists 2 nearly identical fridges on Best Buy's website that look the same except the price tags and the one with the Smart display. The dumb fridge with the two freezer drawers on the bottom and the French doors for the main fridge, along with a water dispenser is ~$2400 USD. The one that's identical with a Smart component is ~$1900 USD. I save $500 going with the "Smart" version. But honestly, I wouldn't bother as most of the other fridges have similar features I might want that are much more reasonable, < $1000 USD an they're completely offline.
Most of the electric ovens and ranges I can find are dumb, which is nice. Same thing with microwaves (in fact, a cursory search turns up zero "smart" microwaves.) Same dishwashers.
Most of the affordably priced dumb clothes washers and dryers are brands like LG, GE, and Maytag.
In the US we definitely have dumb options. We've spoken with our wallets, I guess.
Are used appliances not a thing any more? About ten years ago, our dryer died and we went to a used appliance shop, paid maybe $100 for a new old one of about the same vintage and it worked like a charm. Not the most efficient of course, but that can be offset by line drying clothes.
Some of the problem is parts availability for old appliances. Control board goes out? If you can find it it's $600+ for just the board, not including install. The mechanical parts are getting hard to find, or phased out too
Personally, having to line dry clothes would not solve my problems
I think how they pitch it is you can see your calendar and weather on the door and see a webcam of the inside of the fridge while you are at the supermarket.
But in reality the smart stuff is more a feature for Samsung themselves so they can show adverts, collect data, and obsolete the fridge faster so you buy the new model that still gets updates after your last one gets hacked and turned in to a scraper for AI botnets.
Yeah, I mean, the idea is fucking stupid, but it kinda makes sense I GUESS? If you really want a calendar on your fridge?
What's extremely stupid is that the "smart" part of the fridge (I'm assuming it's basically a tablet just internally mounted into the fridge) has any sort of integration whatsoever with the refrigeration loop. What could be the possible purpose of that? What benefit would there be?
It’s obvious isn’t it? If you are on vacation and your roommate drinks your milk, your refrigerator can log it and you can then choose to reverse the loop, heating the contents and destroying all the food and maybe even their medications. That’s gonna teach them their lesson!
That webcam isn't ever going to show you what you actually need to know, right? "Do we have any X left?" "Not sure, there's too much Y in the fridge"
The rest is IMO better solved by putting a mounting point for a (samsung?) tablet on the front, plus a USB socket for power. Bonus, because you can mount that tablet by the door, or anywhere else you please. In fact, I want something like that, to the extent that I'll probably cook one up out of a raspi and a e-ink display at some point. But to bolt that to the fridge permanently? The mind boggles.
Not just a smart fridge but a "Bespoke AI" smart fridge, lol.
How else are you supposed to see personalized advertising while looking for a snack, silly?
I have a (dumb) calendar on my fridge. I would actually appreciate a smart calendar and some sort of access to a HomeAssistant panel on my fridge just because it does seem like an almost natural place for it. In practice I wouldn't consider such a thing unless it was basically unlocked (so I could do stuff to it) and if I was convinced the fridge would work without it, I could replace it MYSELF if it broke, and ideally if there was a planned way to upgrade it in 5-10 years when it becomes out of date.
Couldn't you just like... Mount a tablet to your fridge?
That way, when the tablet becomes obsolete in 10 years, and can't run modern apps because the OS won't support it, you could just buy a new tablet instead of throwing out your entire fridge.
Then I would have to run power to it or charge it all the time and it would probably get knocked off ...because that's what happens in my house...
At the end of the day I'm not doing either thing because they both suck for different reasons.
First thing - what do you need smart fridge for? Will it look for your food and its "best before" dates on its own? Will it order beer when I take the last one out? Is it able to move the meat from freezer to the fridge so it can thaw out before need it for cooking?
Second - Call me old school or paranoid or whatever, but dumb appliances just work more reliably. My oven died on me years ago - the thing that died wasn't even smart! It was that clock/timer thing that just runs the oven at specified time, otherwise the oven is old school bimetal thermostat driven... I just bypassed the clock/timer thing and oven works like new. Adding "smart" into basic things makes them worse. I don't need you to change my mind, I don't even think about changing it.
We own an LG refrigerator. I really didn't want to buy one because they already have a bad name for their fridges. It has their "ThinQ" AI technology and I have already told my husband I will murder him if he ever enables it, especially considering that LG is a company who really really likes spying on it's customers.
I imagine the fridge have processing power of at most smartphone. That would mean AI magic happens elsewhere. Where is that elsewhere? It's far from the place you call "home". I think you made good choice by not enabling it on your fridge.
EDIT: spelling
Assuming its actually “AI”. Most stuff like that labeled AI is just a slightly fancier version of the “popcorn” button on your microwave (don’t use that button either).
You just reminded me of great Technology Connections' video.
EDIT: For the (previously) bad link to the video, please accept this one about refgidgerators as my apology.
Actual video without influencer interrupting.
Oh, sorry! I don't watch videos on Youtube and this one popped in my search and looked legit on first look. My bad! I changed the link in my post. Thank you for pointing that out.
Brown suit man strikes again.
He's great! Even though he looks like he comes from the Dirty Harry movies era. Thinking aboutnit, he is as great as Dirty Harry!
Sorry for double reply, but I couldn't help it. I promise this is better than rickroll.
When I looked in to the LG fridge thing, what they mean by AI is it has a temperature sensor that turns the compressor on and off to keep the fridge at the right temperature.
LOL
Well, we have this in really old fridges as well, it's also a temperature sensor that turns compressor on and off and it's called bimetallic strip. I guess we already lived in AI era even over 100 years ago by the LG logic.
It's most effective at building up ice, locking up the fan and causing the whole fridge to fail. I've got to pull everything out of the freezer and melt the build up with a hair dryer every week or two. Repair guy couldn't do anything since it mechanically works.
Be careful with a hair dryer, they can melt the plastics. We used a steamer and that worked really well.
Surprisingly, I think the answer to these is "kind of."
There are some fridges that have expiration timers, track inventory, and will help add items to your cart or shipping list if you run out. There are also some that have compartments that can switch between fridge and freezer temp, which functionally could be similar to moving an item from freezer to fridge.
These are only mildly interesting, but I guess some advancememts are being made. I'd never get a smart fridge in their current form though. Still seems like more hassle than convenience.
I guess the line would be "when the main function of the device is controlled by smart". If the fridge does what it should independently of the smart part of it, then ok - if the smart dies, I still have dumb fridge.
Expiration timers would be very nice actually, but it would have to work based on scanner - I just turn the date(code) to some camera thing and it will find and input everything for me. If it doesn't, then I can as well just set up calendar notification...
Some other functions could be great, ie. the switchable cobtainer. But that could likely be made with dumb freezer as well (apart from timer on that).
I don't say there is nothing to be gained by smartyfing the fridge, but in the current world and state - no, thanks. I don't want everyone to know my favorite beer and how much I enjoy it (and that would be the least concern of mine).
This reminds me of how last year, smart beds got bricked by the AWS outage. Those beds apparently lacked an offline mode, which is just... so basic.
On a more relevant note, this feels like another part of the "users ARE the QA testers" trend that seems to be growing with horrifically untested updates. This feels like something that should have been caught in testing given how widespread it is.
At least it's only in South Korea and not global, but it's also the worst timing since it's right before Chuseok. I don't know much about it, but I've heard it compared to American Thanksgiving, which gives a good idea of how bad it is for a fridge to stop working before THIS holiday. I remember our ice maker broke right before we hosted Thanksgiving one year, and even THAT was an issue. Can't imagine having the entire fridge being unusable.
This all just reinforces my decision to avoid smart appliances. Our stove/oven has a Wi-Fi button, but I have never used it so no clue what it does.
Does anyone have experience with leaving their smart devices offline permanently?
I have a Samsung smart TV, but I've never given it my wifi password. I have an external box for it so it's literally just never gone online.
I also have an LG window air conditioner that is "smart", but it's also never been online. I can control it just fine with the remote, and even set a schedule for while I'm out of town so the house is nice and cool when we get back from vacation.
Do these refrigerators work offline?
My washer/dryer and dishwasher have smart features. I never connected them and they work fine. My TV also has smart features, but again I've never connected that to wifi (when I want to use streaming services on it I use my Xbox). Obviously the TV's own streaming apps only work if connected to wifi, and annoyingly casting also requires it to have Internet access, but otherwise it works fine.
Actually there is one problem: the washing machine's detergent auto dosing feature is only configurable in app, not with the physical controls, so that feature is unavailable since I use it offline.
I have a commercial display Samsung for my TV that can do (gestures broadly) other things if given the chance, it is not connected to the internet.
I have a GE washing machine that has a sticker that says it can do all sorts of things if I download an app and give it a chance, it is not connected to the internet.
I have a Hisense window unit in my office also has an app or whatever if given the chance, it is not connected to the internet.
I have battery powered tools that would like me to connect to an app, I will not do so.
All things work just fine without internet access. None will ever be provided it.
Seems like a pretty dumb fridge if software can randomly break it.
Not if it’s a Samsung! My dad has owned a Samsung fridge for many years (a dumb one), and since the beginning it makes loud pops because Samsung has a defect on many of their fridges where the coolant has air mixed in (factory error). You’d think they’d replace it under warranty or goodwill but no they’ve been fighting him telling him he’s holding it wrong. He eventually gave up on it and replaced it with a more reputable brand. Samsung sucks.