For anyone on Windows 7 who is considering whether or not to switch to Linux, here's my experience, from someone who isn't nearly as technically inclined as most of the other users here. I had a...
Exemplary
For anyone on Windows 7 who is considering whether or not to switch to Linux, here's my experience, from someone who isn't nearly as technically inclined as most of the other users here.
I had a mid-tier computer from 2010 that I upgraded to Windows 10 shortly after they offered the free upgrade. I loved Windows 7, was baffled by Windows 8, and loved Windows 10 shortly after install. Unfortunately, like every Windows installation I've ever had, it would get bogged down and seem to go slower over time, even though I was judicious about not letting programs run at start up. There was some sort of "refresh" option that I used once that was kind of like reinstalling Windows that made it a bit snappier for a short period, but then it started to bog down again.
The straw that broke the camel's back was when I started booting and my computer was completely unusable for 10+ minutes. Task manager would show 100% disk usage on boot, and it would stay that way for an unreasonably long amount of time, grinding the entire computer to a halt. I would boot up my PC, go make a cup of coffee or something, and come back to it 20 minutes later in hopes that it was ready to use.
If you search around, you can see that the problem is widespread, and there are many purported fixes. None of them worked for me. Combine this significant frustration with growing privacy awareness on my part, and Windows 10 was looking significantly less desirable than when I first started using it.
Because I was running ~8-year-old hardware, I didn't have a lot of options for Linux, because there was only so much my computer could handle. I tried Manjaro XFCE, Lubuntu, and MX Linux, and I ended up installing Manjaro.
Lubuntu had just gone through a big switch and was really buggy (plus there are two differnet Lubuntu sites .net and .me, and I'd apparently installed from the wrong one, which made me fearful I'd compromised my system). I can't remember what it was that made me decide against MX Linux. Manjaro promised the most, and, with its use of the Arch User Repository, had the easiest way to install and access some of the software that I wanted. When I tested the distro it worked fine for me on my hardware, so I installed.
While choice is Linux's greatest strength, it can also be paralyzing to new users. There's so much to take in and so many options. Plus, there's not agreement on anything, so if you go looking for opinions you'll find voices saying each and every distro and DE are amazing and each and every distro and DE are trash.
The truth of the matter is, if you're a user like me: as long as the distro can run on your hardware, it probably doesn't matter what you choose. If you're a casual computer user, 80% of your time is probably spent in your web browser, and every distro can easily run a web browser. Much of what Linux devotees are arguing and debating about really only affect power users. A lot of it is well above the heads of casual users like us, so it's safe to tune out the noise.
Learning how to try the distro and get to installation is a bit of a process, and is probably the biggest hurdle to Linux adoption. For the casual user, it's a lot to take in and execute. If you're the kind of person that would need help with it, please ask. There's a lot of terminology that isn't immediately intuitive to the lay user (flashing, disk image, partitions, BIOS, etc.), and it's the kind of thing where, if you're following a guide, you're helpless the moment something onscreen differs from what's in the guide.
Once you can get to the installation, it is actually quite easy if you follow the default steps. I didn't try to do any fancy dual-booting or whatnot, so the process is pretty much just a series of questions that you need to answer: language, time zone, preferences, etc.
After installing Manjaro, my computer felt snappy and usable for the first time in a long time. It resurrected my hardware. Granted, if I opened more than a few Firefox tabs I would run out of RAM and the computer would lock up, but I learned to surf in only one or two tabs, which was actually likely a better practice than what I was doing before.
There was a bit of a learning curve, but overall the computer did what I needed it to do, which was get me online and let me access my documents and photos. I even played a few games on Steam on it, though those were low-end ones that could run on the hardware.
I would give an enthusiastic recommendation for Linux to users like me who just need their computer to be a basic computer. There weren't any specialty programs tying me to Windows, and even though some UX is different, it's not insurmountable. You can say the same thing about Chromebooks, and those are often preferred among non-techy people! Linux has long been at a point where it "just works" for basic usage. The biggest caveat here is that hardware support can still be spotty, and, say, your printer or scanner might not work automatically like they do in Windows.
My advice to anyone considering switching would be: ignore much of the discourse about differences in DEs and distros that you'll find when searching up information, and instead simply select a distro that's likely to work with your hardware. Try it out in a live environment, and, if it works, install it and don't look back. Whatever hiccups arise because of differences between it and Windows you'll soon figure out, and once the process is done you'll have a fully functional computer doing nearly everything you need it to.
I know. I had a big blue pop-up that filled my screen a couple of hours ago. This is annoying. I don't like Windows 10, and I can't afford to buy a new computer to run it anyway. P.S. I also don't...
I know. I had a big blue pop-up that filled my screen a couple of hours ago.
This is annoying. I don't like Windows 10, and I can't afford to buy a new computer to run it anyway.
P.S. I also don't see why I should be forced to replace my desktop computer. It might be 10 years old (I bought it in 2009), but it has never given me any trouble at all. Nothing. Never. It still runs perfectly, and it does everything I need it to do (which, I admit, is not what someone else might need it to do - I'm a low-profile user with minimal needs). It's nowhere near ready to be scrapped. But consumerism rules. Planned obsolescence is the way to go.
10 years ago, Microsoft planned to make this software obsolete in 2020. And they have decided to stop supporting it. There are no external factors forcing them to stop supporting it. There's...
This isn't planned obsolescence.
10 years ago, Microsoft planned to make this software obsolete in 2020. And they have decided to stop supporting it. There are no external factors forcing them to stop supporting it. There's nothing stopping them from continuing to put out patches occasionally. It's only their own decision stopping them from doing so.
They have made this software obsolete by their own decision, and they planned to do that 10 years ago.
As new software is developed for new hardware, old hardware will cease to be able to run it because of limitations in processing power, architecture, etc.
But I'm not buying either new software or new hardware, so this issue doesn't apply to me. My current software meets my needs, and my current hardware runs my current software. So I don't care if new software won't run on my old computer, because I'm not using new software.
But you're not the one being expected to: a) buy new software; b) buy new hardware to run the new software. This is just a money-making exercise for Microsoft. They stop spending money on software...
because personally I think that was way too long.
But you're not the one being expected to: a) buy new software; b) buy new hardware to run the new software.
This is just a money-making exercise for Microsoft. They stop spending money on software that people aren't buying any more, and they earn more money by forcing people to buy new software.
don't expect to be safe from any form of virus or malware, because Windows 7 just became a much easier target.
I don't surf a lot of dodgy websites. I don't open email attachments from unknown senders (I sometimes don't even open attachments from known senders). I see this as a low risk.
And, seeing as the alternative is going to cost me hundreds of dollars that I just can't afford... I kind of have to take this risk.
That said, I'll probably start investigating Linux soon. I tried it out when Windows Vista support was being discontinued. I eventually found a cheap (legal) copy of Windows 7 instead. However, I wasn't disappointed by the Linux distro I tried out. I've known this day was coming for years, and Linux has always been my Plan B.
Unfortunately that's the problem with W7 losing out on security updates. Exploits don't necessarily require any slip up on your part. All they need is an open hole to crawl through. Without...
I don't surf a lot of dodgy websites. I don't open email attachments from unknown senders (I sometimes don't even open attachments from known senders). I see this as a low risk.
Unfortunately that's the problem with W7 losing out on security updates. Exploits don't necessarily require any slip up on your part. All they need is an open hole to crawl through. Without security updates, those holes will only continue to be discovered and never closed. Most of those, thankfully, will be avoidable with hyperparanoid security practices.
But then they'll discover a bug in the font engine that gets them kernel level access, and the only thing you have to do is accidentally allow that font to appear on your screen somewhere, anywhere. That's happened before. Multiple times.
If you're "lucky" it might be big and bad enough that MS even backports the patches even to unsupported OSs. Even back to XP in the case of EternalBlue, the exploit used in the WannaCry ransomware that, even with patches out 2 months in advance, still tore across computer systems across the globe like it was 1999. Seriously, I think it's been about that long since any malware was able to run as rampant as that.
Anyway, that's my little half-informed rant on security I make every few months. Sadly good hygiene isn't enough if you're looking to stay ahead of malware. Up to date security patches are a must.
Reading through this thread and your concerns, this really seems like the way to go. You seem to place a high value on control over the software you own, as well as privacy and choice. All of...
That said, I'll probably start investigating Linux soon. I tried it out when Windows Vista support was being discontinued. I eventually found a cheap (legal) copy of Windows 7 instead. However, I wasn't disappointed by the Linux distro I tried out. I've known this day was coming for years, and Linux has always been my Plan B.
Reading through this thread and your concerns, this really seems like the way to go. You seem to place a high value on control over the software you own, as well as privacy and choice. All of these point towards Linux in my opinion. It can be a bit annoying if there's specific software you need to run that only runs on Windows, but that's definitely not insurmountable. I'd really recommend trying out Ubuntu and configuring it how you like. For most users, that's the only distribution they will ever want or need.
As others have said: if you're not committed to running AAA new games on your computer, then Linux is a fantastic choice. There are a lot of pain-free, long term solutions that are free and Free...
As others have said: if you're not committed to running AAA new games on your computer, then Linux is a fantastic choice. There are a lot of pain-free, long term solutions that are free and Free and that will run on your old hardware, and I think that there are enough people in ~tech and ~comp that would be happy to help out if you end up going this route that you shouldn't have any problems.
Yeah sadly I think Microsoft heavily radicalized the people who were already wanting to stick on W7. They are the only ones to blame though, with the malware-tier dark patterns and deceptions, all...
Yeah sadly I think Microsoft heavily radicalized the people who were already wanting to stick on W7. They are the only ones to blame though, with the malware-tier dark patterns and deceptions, all shoving users towards a comparatively dystopian hybrid mobile OS with unprecedented levels of telemetry and advertising baked right into the thing. How many years has it been and all the complaints that existed about it at launch are still basically there, with even a few new ones having been added on since. I don't blame people for wanting to stick it out on W7. Maybe there'll be a community effort like there was on XP for a community driven service pack to try and maintain things themselves.
And yeah you can still upgrade for free even though that's "ended"
I think windows update works, but the one time I tried that it had other (non activation) issues. In the end, I installed windows 10 from a fresh install image. In the installer, say you will buy...
I think windows update works, but the one time I tried that it had other (non activation) issues. In the end, I installed windows 10 from a fresh install image. In the installer, say you will buy it later to install the trial. Then, once setup, put the windows 7 or 8 key in the activation screen. It will activate and give you a new and different windows 10 key. Optionally, you can then transfer that key to be tied to a Microsoft account, which makes it easier to reactivate if windows decides you changed hardware.
From my experience the upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 was free.
In the FAQ of the OP's link:
How can I upgrade to Windows 10 for free?
The Windows 10 free upgrade offer ended on July 29, 2016. To get Windows 10 you will need to either purchase a new device or, if you have a compatible PC, purchase a full version of the software to upgrade your existing device.
They say that but it's still free. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21065140/how-to-upgrade-microsoft-windows-7-10-free-os Just download the installer and run it. But honestly, at this point you...
I don't think they'll ever be able to truly end it, not without more effort on MS's part than they (apparently) think is worth. Since the free upgrade was based on the W7/W8 product keys that the...
I don't think they'll ever be able to truly end it, not without more effort on MS's part than they (apparently) think is worth. Since the free upgrade was based on the W7/W8 product keys that the machines had, they have to allow those to remain valid for W10 due to reinstalls and the like.
If they wanted, they could invalidate any W7/8 keys not used to activate W10 by that 2016 date, but again, that seems to be more work than MS wants to do.
Just curious how you feel about this line of thinking if you apply it to other software. If you made an app and sold it, would you expect to support it... forever? If you released a new major...
Just curious how you feel about this line of thinking if you apply it to other software. If you made an app and sold it, would you expect to support it... forever? If you released a new major upgrade with a new version number (i.e. v1 to v2), you'd expect to continue supporting v1 forever, in addition to v2? You're arguing that releasing a piece of software obliges you to support that software indefinitely?
I don't think this argument will win much favour here. While you've stated very directly that this was planned, and the product is now obsolete, usually, from most definitions I've seen, a degree...
10 years ago, Microsoft planned to make this software obsolete in 2020. And they have decided to stop supporting it. There are no external factors forcing them to stop supporting it.
I don't think this argument will win much favour here. While you've stated very directly that this was planned, and the product is now obsolete, usually, from most definitions I've seen, a degree of maliciousness or ulterior motivation needs to be present, and the lifecycle of the product much usually be shorter than the expected average duration of other products in the industry. None of that is really apparent in this instance.
10 years is a long time for software. Microsoft no longer considers it feasible to continue patching it. They have even literally offered you a free upgrade to the next release if you'd like it. Maybe try macOS! The product lifecycle is closer to two years! 😆
That was three years ago. And it was a conversion to a product I neither wanted nor needed - except insofar as Microsoft required me to need it. Also, it's to their advantage that I install their...
They have even literally offered you a free upgrade to the next release if you'd like it.
That was three years ago. And it was an upgradea conversion to a product I neither wanted nor needed - except insofar as Microsoft required me to need it.
Also, it's to their advantage that I install their new operating system with its key-logging, user monitoring, and the ability to serve me advertisements. There's no benefit to me in any of that. That was for their benefit, not mine.
You say there was no malicious intent. Profiteering may not be malicious, but that doesn't make it a good motive.
You may not like the option on offer, but they did offer it to you nonetheless! Whether you accept is up to you, though. I agree there's not a lot of things to like about Windows 10 however. At...
You may not like the option on offer, but they did offer it to you nonetheless! Whether you accept is up to you, though. I agree there's not a lot of things to like about Windows 10 however.
At the risk of dog-piling as you mentioned down-thread, you'll be a lot better off with some flavour of linux or macOS. Perhaps elementaryOS, which is mac-ish clone of macOS. Depends on your persuasions though, and ultimately the only person who can find the right product is you. I'd be interested in hearing what you pick at some point in ~tech or ~comp and your rationale—given you've previously expressed a dislike-of-tech-and-its-purveyors sentiment (which I can fully understand).
If you aren't turned off from Windows completely, you might want to look into Windows 10 LTSC. Supposedly it's like Windows 10 but with more Windows 7-like tracking and no cortana or adware. Don't...
If you aren't turned off from Windows completely, you might want to look into Windows 10 LTSC. Supposedly it's like Windows 10 but with more Windows 7-like tracking and no cortana or adware. Don't know if it can be legally acquired if you're not a business but it isn't to hard to get through other means :^)
I'm sorry but this actually bothers me. This is not what planned obsolescence, as a concept, refers to. Deciding beforehand on a hard limit on ongoing support or services is not planned...
10 years ago, Microsoft planned to make this software obsolete in 2020. And they have decided to stop supporting it. There are no external factors forcing them to stop supporting it. There's nothing stopping them from continuing to put out patches occasionally. It's only their own decision stopping them from doing so.
They have made this software obsolete by their own decision, and they planned to do that 10 years ago.
I'm sorry but this actually bothers me. This is not what planned obsolescence, as a concept, refers to. Deciding beforehand on a hard limit on ongoing support or services is not planned obsolescence any more than an Internet Service Provider setting a limit on how long you can benefit from a certain type of contract is planned obsolescence.[1]
You mentioned elsewhere in the thread that you're considering switching to Linux, but some of the larger Distros do the exact same thing. In comparing them Windows 7's 10 years of support is comparatively normal. For example Debian, one of the larger distros, officially terminates support for each version much, much more quickly, mostly for the reasons others have already explained.
[1]Aside from this planned obsolescence usually means a product becoming unusable after a predetermined period of time. The root issue people have with it being that a product might have continued to operate had it not been been subject to the policy. Versions of an operating system that are End-of-Life don't actually cease functioning, no patch is put out that disables them or bricks your computer. Your version of Windows 7 will theoretically continue to run for however long as physical reality allows it.
By your logic almost every product ever made by mankind has been made by with planned obsolescence. Except maybe a few things with lifetime guarantees like Zippo lighters, I guess.
By your logic almost every product ever made by mankind has been made by with planned obsolescence. Except maybe a few things with lifetime guarantees like Zippo lighters, I guess.
Even for products with lifetime guarantees, let's take Craftsman tools for example, it would seem that by OP's logic, that would not be enough. OP does not simply want the tool to be replaced for...
Even for products with lifetime guarantees, let's take Craftsman tools for example, it would seem that by OP's logic, that would not be enough. OP does not simply want the tool to be replaced for free with a newer tool, they want their existing tool to be constantly maintained and repaired for the entire time they wish to use the product. To me, it seems to be an unrealistic expectation of the developers of the software/product to provide nonstop support for an outdated and, frankly, technologically worse older product when there is a newer, more advanced product available for free.
The for free is important here. If it was a paid upgrade (and it was offered for free for years, regardless of the debate about its current cost) he'd be in a slightly stronger position, but given...
The for free is important here. If it was a paid upgrade (and it was offered for free for years, regardless of the debate about its current cost) he'd be in a slightly stronger position, but given he was offered a free upgrade it's a hard case for him to make.
Eh. Just because it doesn't come with a price tag doesn't mean it doesn't come with a cost. W10 is free because you pay with personal info MS can collect to target ads at you. Not to mention the...
Eh. Just because it doesn't come with a price tag doesn't mean it doesn't come with a cost. W10 is free because you pay with personal info MS can collect to target ads at you. Not to mention the 50,000 ways user choice is stripped away. Like any price tag, that's a cost some aren't willing to pay.
That doesn't really obligate Microsoft to keep supporting the old version, though. It explains why some might choose not to upgrade, but if you're not paying "the cost" are they really obliged to...
That doesn't really obligate Microsoft to keep supporting the old version, though. It explains why some might choose not to upgrade, but if you're not paying "the cost" are they really obliged to keep supporting you?
Myself, none. I don't think they should continue supporting it. It had a good run. But I don't blame people for not wanting to take the free upgrade because it was really manipulatively done and...
Myself, none. I don't think they should continue supporting it. It had a good run. But I don't blame people for not wanting to take the free upgrade because it was really manipulatively done and had pages worth of side effects and drawbacks.
Guess I'm not saying OP is right, just that it's not surprising that everyone on W7 is upset and still on W7.
Fair enough. I just can't sympathise. They can keep using it unsupported, upgrade to the free upgrade, or swap to another OS. Just seems greedy to expect indefinite support.
Fair enough. I just can't sympathise. They can keep using it unsupported, upgrade to the free upgrade, or swap to another OS. Just seems greedy to expect indefinite support.
Even without the "software needs to be replaced eventually mindset" I still don't think they're in the wrong here. They provided a decade of support and then offered a free upgrade to a new...
10 years ago, Microsoft planned to make this software obsolete in 2020. And they have decided to stop supporting it. There are no external factors forcing them to stop supporting it.
Even without the "software needs to be replaced eventually mindset" I still don't think they're in the wrong here. They provided a decade of support and then offered a free upgrade to a new version they plan on upgrading for the forseeable future, ditching the old model completely. You could have a bought a license for Win7 in 2010 and presumably keep using it for Win10 for 20+ years until they make some major OS changes that completely rework their license system.
It really should be noted that this is also some of the best value in proprietary software licensing out there. You only get charged once for 10 years of support, and realistically you get it...
It really should be noted that this is also some of the best value in proprietary software licensing out there. You only get charged once for 10 years of support, and realistically you get it thrown in for free with the purchase of your computer. Compare that to other perpetual licenses which may not include any updates at all, and where a new release may be only 1 year away.
But realistically if you are paying for something with as much active development and support as Windows, you are going to be given a SaaS style license. And if you stop paying for that, you lose access to the software.
That's the thing with commercial licenses. If you don't agree with the terms, you shouldn't accept them. Period.
I was hesitant to get into Windows 10, but Windows 10 with OpenShell / Classic Shell does help us avoid the awful start menu with tiles. I think you said you were against this before, but Windows...
I was hesitant to get into Windows 10, but Windows 10 with OpenShell / Classic Shell does help us avoid the awful start menu with tiles.
I think you said you were against this before, but Windows 10 LTSC is really the way to go. It avoids all of the unnecessary crap that the other versions come packaged with.
As for hardware, I've found that Windows 10 runs as well, if not better than Windows 7. I can only speak for LTSC, but I know others have had a similar experience.
And I've said it again a few times right in this very thread. :) I don't want an operating system with a built-in key-logger. I don't want an operating system that serves me advertisements. I...
I think you said you were against this before, but Windows 10
And I've said it again a few times right in this very thread. :)
I don't want an operating system with a built-in key-logger. I don't want an operating system that serves me advertisements. I don't like the tile-based interface. I use it at work, and I do not like Windows 10. It might be just a personal preference, but it's my personal preference, which makes it important to me.
While technically true, I think it is worth mentioning that it is logging typing data for the sake of autocompletion, spelling correction, or word-prediction, much in the same way your average...
I don't want an operating system with a built-in key-logger.
While technically true, I think it is worth mentioning that it is logging typing data for the sake of autocompletion, spelling correction, or word-prediction, much in the same way your average cell phone keyboard does. Likewise, this really only applies to a small set of functions related to Cortana and searching from the start menu (and handwriting/touchscreen typing). Further, you can quite easily turn off this functionality. (To which, I have done exactly this myself since I also disabled Cortana and trust my ability to type correctly into a search box.)
Oh, well. If my privacy is being invaded to make it easier for other people to type... ...that doesn't make it better. And, everything I researched at the time said that there were some monitoring...
Oh, well. If my privacy is being invaded to make it easier for other people to type...
...that doesn't make it better.
And, everything I researched at the time said that there were some monitoring functions in Windows 10 which could not be deactivated at all - not even by people with expertise in this area (unlike me).
As I said, you can opt out of sending that data. (For that matter, the new Windows 10 installer gives you this as a privacy option during the install. It is also an option under the general...
Oh, well. If my privacy is being invaded to make it easier for other people to type...
As I said, you can opt out of sending that data. (For that matter, the new Windows 10 installer gives you this as a privacy option during the install. It is also an option under the general privacy settings.) Granted, I do admit, it should have been opt in, instead of opt out.
And, everything I researched at the time said that there were some monitoring functions in Windows 10 which could not be deactivated at all - not even by people with expertise in this area (unlike me).
There were a lot of warranted concerns upon the release of Windows 10 about privacy infringement and transparency regarding the data that is collected. Unfortunately, it took Microsoft until 2017 to begin addressing these concerns.
Things are improving. Microsoft started publishing reports on what telemetry it collects. They also released the diagnostic data viewer that shows you everything that is collected. The privacy dashboard has been redesigned to give more clear/greater control.
I cannot really comment on the exact functions you are worried about being monitored, as I don't know which ones they are.
I mean, you can claim Microsoft are doing all of this in bad faith, and it means nothing as long as they ultimately hold control and can 'break in' whenever they want. To which, I guess that means you are going to have to trust a commercial entity to not take malicious actions against you or take advantage of you. Granted, that was true of Windows 7 as well.
If all of that seems too dismal, then there's always Linux! (I'd recommend some variant of Linux Mint if you want something that has been tried, tested, and feels similar to Windows.)
So let me get this straight... Your issues are you don't like a type of interface that can be turned off with a couple of clicks, you don't like a bunch of "privacy invading" settings that don't...
So let me get this straight...
Your issues are you don't like a type of interface that can be turned off with a couple of clicks, you don't like a bunch of "privacy invading" settings that don't do what fear mongering websites have convinced you they do and that can also be turned off with a couple of clicks, and you don't like that a company at some point has to cut the umbilical cord and stop supporting an old product as it is no longer financially viable to do so? Are you still using an original Nokia 3310? I'm a bit into retrocomputing, but I don't complain that there are no updates for Win 3.1.
I get that you aren't tech savvy, that's fine, most people aren't and you don't need to be to get by. However, willful ignorance is not an excuse. No one is making you upgrade. The OS won't suddenly stop working. You just have to accept a level of risk because you choose to use something that will only become more vulnerable as time goes on, the same with nearly anything in the world.
That said, there are easily applied skins for Linux that can make your experience with it during everyday use nearly impossible to discern from Win 7 and you can get versions of Linux that'll run on just about anything in perpetuity for however long your outdated hardware lasts.
There are skins for Plasma that look like Windows but I've yet to see someone configure any DE to actually behave exactly like Windows.
That said, there are easily applied skins for Linux that can make your experience with it during everyday use nearly impossible to discern from Win 7 and you can get versions of Linux that'll run on just about anything in perpetuity for however long your outdated hardware lasts.
There are skins for Plasma that look like Windows but I've yet to see someone configure any DE to actually behave exactly like Windows.
Not exactly, but passable enough to even make my utterly non-tech savvy father not tell any difference. He kept getting crap on his Win7 machine due to being the stereotypical open everything...
Not exactly, but passable enough to even make my utterly non-tech savvy father not tell any difference. He kept getting crap on his Win7 machine due to being the stereotypical open everything anyone sends him person and so I ended up wiping his computer and doing this to his machine.
That makes sense. LTSC + OpenShell bypasses the tiles and ads, at least... but I get what you're saying. A buddy of mine is sticking with Windows 7 until Jesus himself comes and forces him to...
That makes sense. LTSC + OpenShell bypasses the tiles and ads, at least... but I get what you're saying.
A buddy of mine is sticking with Windows 7 until Jesus himself comes and forces him to update.
If you do dig into Linux and are new to Linux, don't copy and paste anything when you're googling. It won't take long to pick up the basics and live a very comfortable life with whichever distro you go with. I use Xubuntu with i3 (a tiling window manager.) If it weren't for some specific software, I'd use Linux full time.
It's not a laptop. It's a 10-year-old desktop. (I'm not looking for solutions here, by the way. I'm just sharing my opinions. Not asking for help.) I use Windows 10 on my work computer. I might...
It's not a laptop. It's a 10-year-old desktop.
(I'm not looking for solutions here, by the way. I'm just sharing my opinions. Not asking for help.)
I use Windows 10 on my work computer. I might have gotten used to it, in order to do my job, but that doesn't mean I like it.
I know. Everyone tries to help here. The instant someone on Tildes mentions a less-than-perfect computer experience, the tech crowd here rush to be helpful. I've seen people get trampled in the...
I know. Everyone tries to help here. The instant someone on Tildes mentions a less-than-perfect computer experience, the tech crowd here rush to be helpful. I've seen people get trampled in the stampede to be helpful! :)
It can get somewhat overwhelming when everyone and their dog throws suggestions at you, but you weren't actually looking for suggestions. It's nice, but sometimes it's too much of a good thing.
It can get somewhat overwhelming when everyone and their dog throws suggestions at you, but you weren't actually looking for suggestions.
It's nice, but sometimes it's too much of a good thing.
I think that's for the same reason that sarcasm is hit and miss on the internet. You can't tell if someone is just letting you know something bc they have a similar preference and solved it a...
I think that's for the same reason that sarcasm is hit and miss on the internet. You can't tell if someone is just letting you know something bc they have a similar preference and solved it a different way VS someone seeing you do something "wrong" and wanting to correct it.
I don't usually get bothered by small aside comments, but if I've re-iterated something a bunch yet each reply gives the impression they haven't even read what I wrote, then I start to write it off and assume they're among the "do it my way" crowd.
Unfortunately though, even if what they said is good advice, I can accidentally read something as preachy/sarcastic/glib and then I'll stubbornly avoid it like the plague. Funny how we can be sometimes.
It's a free upgrade for Windows 7, you don't need a new computer to run it. And even if it wasn't a free upgrade, there would be nothing stopping you from buying a copy and installing it on your...
I can't afford to buy a new computer to run it anyway.
It's a free upgrade for Windows 7, you don't need a new computer to run it. And even if it wasn't a free upgrade, there would be nothing stopping you from buying a copy and installing it on your older hardware.
But you don't have to upgrade to Windows 10. You can easily keep using Windows 7 - it just won't get security updates any more. As long as you're aware of that and willing to accept the risks...
But you don't have to upgrade to Windows 10. You can easily keep using Windows 7 - it just won't get security updates any more. As long as you're aware of that and willing to accept the risks associated with it, there's nothing stopping you from using Windows 7 indefinitely.
If using Windows isn't essential for you, I suggest using Linux. It's free, runs great on older hardware and quite easy to switch over if you choose a distribution (flavor) like Manjaro. It's also...
If using Windows isn't essential for you, I suggest using Linux. It's free, runs great on older hardware and quite easy to switch over if you choose a distribution (flavor) like Manjaro. It's also just as user friendly as Windows if you use something like the KDE Desktop (software that controls how your system looks.) You just download it to a thumbdrive, plug it in, reboot your computer, and it will walk you through installing it, which consists of clicking a few 'next' buttons (very similar to installing Windows 10). I'm happy to help you if you DM me.
Rest in peace one of the (maybe the?) most popular OSs of all time. It had a good run. I guess my parents will finally need to finance a new PC now or end up being forced to sooner or later when...
Rest in peace one of the (maybe the?) most popular OSs of all time. It had a good run. I guess my parents will finally need to finance a new PC now or end up being forced to sooner or later when it drops dead due to some new virus. (And, unlike algernon, my PC takes 30 seconds to open a chrome tab and has 512 MB of ram, which is definitely not fine.) Unfortunately, like algernon my mother bought the windows phone and she most definitely doesn't want that experience on a computer, and setting up a distro seems pretty difficult and seems like it has pretty bad consequences if you fail.
Which is not a requirement on Win10 and only a couple of clicks away from being the Win 7 style interface (start menu, program/folder list, etc). Windows 10 isn't WIndows 8 where they forced that...
she most definitely doesn't want that experience on a computer
Which is not a requirement on Win10 and only a couple of clicks away from being the Win 7 style interface (start menu, program/folder list, etc). Windows 10 isn't WIndows 8 where they forced that sort of interface.
Change is always going to be hard, so there's going to have to be some ponying through it no matter what. But as I see your parents have a few options: get a new PC with windows 10, which is...
Change is always going to be hard, so there's going to have to be some ponying through it no matter what. But as I see your parents have a few options:
get a new PC with windows 10, which is honestly not that bad in terms of user experience if you're coming in from 7 (compared to other OSes, anyways)
get an Apple, their shelf-life is a lot shorter than it used to be and there's going to be some re-learning involved but it's probably the one OS I see my older family members consistently manage the best.
install Linux Mint. The installation is a breeze and the interface is very similar to Windows. And it comes loaded with most of the basic things you might need. It is, of course, still a Linux distro however.
I'm faced with a similar dilemma. My dad (in his 70s) is using my old PC which I originally purchased back in 2011. Gave it to him when I upgraded in 2015. His old computer which he had since 2005...
I guess my parents will finally need to finance a new PC now or end up being forced to sooner or later when it drops dead due to some new virus.
I'm faced with a similar dilemma.
My dad (in his 70s) is using my old PC which I originally purchased back in 2011. Gave it to him when I upgraded in 2015. His old computer which he had since 2005 at that point continually had problems, had to be wiped on a regular basis because it was continually being infected with viruses and was too weak to run an OS newer than Windows XP, which had long since been depreciated.
It's currently running Windows 10 but the latest major software update won't install due to what I presume are firmware compatibility issues based on the error codes. It looks like I won't be able to get this update to install without flashing the BIOS on the motherboard and installing new firmware somehow, which I'm uncomfortable doing as a DIY job because it could brick the PC, and may not actually fix the issue.
It's a pain in the ass for my dad to use the PC at the moment because it continually goes into lengthy loops of attempting to install the update, failing, then taking an hour or longer to revert to previous settings every time he has to reboot it.
I could try disabling automatic updates to break this lengthy loop, but that's just a bandaid fix which means his PC won't have the latest security updates. The only other alternative I can think of is buying a new PC, but he's kinda strapped for cash.
Linux is also a bad idea. He has problems remembering how to do basic tasks on Windows 10. Ubuntu would be a mindfuck to him.
I've been enjoying Windows 10 quite a lot as it has grown and evolved since release. It's the first version of Windows that feels as fun as OSX, especially now that Windows Subsystem for Linux is...
I've been enjoying Windows 10 quite a lot as it has grown and evolved since release. It's the first version of Windows that feels as fun as OSX, especially now that Windows Subsystem for Linux is in a good place and Windows Terminal is available. It's like I get the best of both worlds now. I've set up an environment with Visual Studio Code that exists almost entirely on the Ubuntu subsystem that runs almost natively through Windows. WSL2 coming this year should be even closer to native too, with more Unix features working too.
There's a few things that still aren't fun, like bouncing between different kinds of setup menus to find the option you want (why are both Sounds and Sound Options available choices when you right click the speaker icon, and then why do they take you to entirely different menus with entirely different options to adjust?) and the Start menu is nowhere near as good as it was in Windows 7 without heavy, heavy customization. And even then, there's not much room to customize. But, hey, Windows 8 ruined the Start function so much, it basically trained me to rarely ever use the Start menu for anything but typing in a search for what I want—which is honestly a lot faster and less intrusive than the Start menu anyway.
Sidenote, had to deal with Windows 8 again recently. It's worse than you remember. I used W8 as my primary OS for about 2 years and it still took me nearly 5 minutes to figure out how to Power Off the computer before I remembered that stupid swipe right menu nonsense.
In terms of telemetry and privacy issues: collossal meh. It's overblown. You can turn so much of it off, and W10 is pretty upfront about it. In such a day and age, that alone inspires confidence since so many other platforms don't mention it much at all. And in terms of trust, Microsoft was the only one of the big four companies who wasn't sending out voice recordings to third parties from what I understand. I'd say that makes them more trustworthy than Google, Amazon, and Apple. Maybe they did too, but then that just puts them on the same level as the others for me.
I finally got my workplace almost completely to windows 10 computers. Our IT has some idiotic rule that they will only support computers if they are in warranty, so our department had to uselessly...
I finally got my workplace almost completely to windows 10 computers. Our IT has some idiotic rule that they will only support computers if they are in warranty, so our department had to uselessly spend money on new desktops to replace perfectly fine computers. There is a bit of software we use that needs every single core you can throw at it, but needs very little memory and almost no GPU power. Our replacement computer for that was a $4000+ monstrosity with a top of the line quadro and like 80 gigs of ram. I could have built a computer that would have performed better for our use case for less than half of that. I even priced out some prebuilts that would have been better for just over half that (and from the same company IT uses exclusively). But no, corporate America would rather throw money at perfectly functional hardware rather than throw a windows 10 image on it. Oh well, it's not my money.
Being in IT, I get where they're coming from. The money you same from things being in warranty is great. You have a problem, call Dell and they'll send out a tech to do all the work for you while...
Being in IT, I get where they're coming from. The money you same from things being in warranty is great. You have a problem, call Dell and they'll send out a tech to do all the work for you while you can focus on the other bigger tasks. If you don't have that, then you have to troubleshoot the hardware (which can take a very long time), identify what piece is dying, buy it, wait for it to ship, then find the time to install it. By that point you're hoping that it was the proper fix. From a hardware enthusiasts perspective it makes no sense to them to go the warranty route, because why not good it yourself? But from a business standpoint it makes a lot more sense. You save time and money from replacing shit by having someone come out and do it for you.
Not only that, hardware vulnerabilities can pop up here and there, and replacing hardware keeps that chance more minimal. Software vulnerabilities can be patched pretty easily, not hardware ones (ie Spectre/meltdown). There were patches for them that mitigate the situation, but now that a hardware exploit is out there it will be very hard to keep 100% secure on a software level.
Yeah, I agree with the warranty policy in general, but we weren't asking them to fix any issues. We were asking them to throw their (mostly) generic windows 10 image on it and let us deal with any...
Yeah, I agree with the warranty policy in general, but we weren't asking them to fix any issues. We were asking them to throw their (mostly) generic windows 10 image on it and let us deal with any issues. In the end, I manually imaged it with an image from one of our other computers.
I'm working a call center job with all web and VDI tools and no reason to still be on 7, but I guess they're too cheap to stop paying for support. Such is life.
I'm working a call center job with all web and VDI tools and no reason to still be on 7, but I guess they're too cheap to stop paying for support. Such is life.
I'm in retail, and we've even updated three of the store computers to 10, but none of the rest, including my department's. I don't know why they're dragging their feet on pushing 10 to the rest,...
I'm in retail, and we've even updated three of the store computers to 10, but none of the rest, including my department's. I don't know why they're dragging their feet on pushing 10 to the rest, since we already had a massive breach of employee info six years ago (thankfully before I started working for them), and handle customer card data that has to be PCI compliant.
Guess I'll find out tomorrow if they finally pushed 10 out to the remainder now that 7's fully out of support.
Windows 10 has the ridiculous settings menu for some things and the control panel for others, has tonnes of telemetry and tracking you can't remove and ships ads in its start menu.
Windows 10 has the ridiculous settings menu for some things and the control panel for others, has tonnes of telemetry and tracking you can't remove and ships ads in its start menu.
the tracking and telemetry has been included all the way back since Vista. The jump from W7 to W10 in terms of regression on privacy concern is somewhat overblown. You can remove them but the more...
the tracking and telemetry has been included all the way back since Vista. The jump from W7 to W10 in terms of regression on privacy concern is somewhat overblown. You can remove them but the more thorough you are in doing this the more you risk breaking functionality. Ads and Cortana can simply be turned off without much trouble.
You can't remove them without registry edits and even then, they get changed back all the time. Cortana being right there in the start menu certainly doesn't help people's perceptions though. Ads...
You can't remove them without registry edits and even then, they get changed back all the time. Cortana being right there in the start menu certainly doesn't help people's perceptions though. Ads can also be removed with regestry edits but nothing else which means that most people have no way of disabling this crap.
The forced updates and general lack of consistency as to where settings are is also not helping the situation.
Yeah, just some Javascript-centric garbage. That's what the page has inside its only <h1> tag, which should usually be the title: <h1 class="c-heading">{{search404Captions.content404Title}}</h1>
Yeah, just some Javascript-centric garbage. That's what the page has inside its only <h1> tag, which should usually be the title:
For anyone on Windows 7 who is considering whether or not to switch to Linux, here's my experience, from someone who isn't nearly as technically inclined as most of the other users here.
I had a mid-tier computer from 2010 that I upgraded to Windows 10 shortly after they offered the free upgrade. I loved Windows 7, was baffled by Windows 8, and loved Windows 10 shortly after install. Unfortunately, like every Windows installation I've ever had, it would get bogged down and seem to go slower over time, even though I was judicious about not letting programs run at start up. There was some sort of "refresh" option that I used once that was kind of like reinstalling Windows that made it a bit snappier for a short period, but then it started to bog down again.
The straw that broke the camel's back was when I started booting and my computer was completely unusable for 10+ minutes. Task manager would show 100% disk usage on boot, and it would stay that way for an unreasonably long amount of time, grinding the entire computer to a halt. I would boot up my PC, go make a cup of coffee or something, and come back to it 20 minutes later in hopes that it was ready to use.
If you search around, you can see that the problem is widespread, and there are many purported fixes. None of them worked for me. Combine this significant frustration with growing privacy awareness on my part, and Windows 10 was looking significantly less desirable than when I first started using it.
Because I was running ~8-year-old hardware, I didn't have a lot of options for Linux, because there was only so much my computer could handle. I tried Manjaro XFCE, Lubuntu, and MX Linux, and I ended up installing Manjaro.
Lubuntu had just gone through a big switch and was really buggy (plus there are two differnet Lubuntu sites .net and .me, and I'd apparently installed from the wrong one, which made me fearful I'd compromised my system). I can't remember what it was that made me decide against MX Linux. Manjaro promised the most, and, with its use of the Arch User Repository, had the easiest way to install and access some of the software that I wanted. When I tested the distro it worked fine for me on my hardware, so I installed.
While choice is Linux's greatest strength, it can also be paralyzing to new users. There's so much to take in and so many options. Plus, there's not agreement on anything, so if you go looking for opinions you'll find voices saying each and every distro and DE are amazing and each and every distro and DE are trash.
The truth of the matter is, if you're a user like me: as long as the distro can run on your hardware, it probably doesn't matter what you choose. If you're a casual computer user, 80% of your time is probably spent in your web browser, and every distro can easily run a web browser. Much of what Linux devotees are arguing and debating about really only affect power users. A lot of it is well above the heads of casual users like us, so it's safe to tune out the noise.
Learning how to try the distro and get to installation is a bit of a process, and is probably the biggest hurdle to Linux adoption. For the casual user, it's a lot to take in and execute. If you're the kind of person that would need help with it, please ask. There's a lot of terminology that isn't immediately intuitive to the lay user (flashing, disk image, partitions, BIOS, etc.), and it's the kind of thing where, if you're following a guide, you're helpless the moment something onscreen differs from what's in the guide.
Once you can get to the installation, it is actually quite easy if you follow the default steps. I didn't try to do any fancy dual-booting or whatnot, so the process is pretty much just a series of questions that you need to answer: language, time zone, preferences, etc.
After installing Manjaro, my computer felt snappy and usable for the first time in a long time. It resurrected my hardware. Granted, if I opened more than a few Firefox tabs I would run out of RAM and the computer would lock up, but I learned to surf in only one or two tabs, which was actually likely a better practice than what I was doing before.
There was a bit of a learning curve, but overall the computer did what I needed it to do, which was get me online and let me access my documents and photos. I even played a few games on Steam on it, though those were low-end ones that could run on the hardware.
I would give an enthusiastic recommendation for Linux to users like me who just need their computer to be a basic computer. There weren't any specialty programs tying me to Windows, and even though some UX is different, it's not insurmountable. You can say the same thing about Chromebooks, and those are often preferred among non-techy people! Linux has long been at a point where it "just works" for basic usage. The biggest caveat here is that hardware support can still be spotty, and, say, your printer or scanner might not work automatically like they do in Windows.
My advice to anyone considering switching would be: ignore much of the discourse about differences in DEs and distros that you'll find when searching up information, and instead simply select a distro that's likely to work with your hardware. Try it out in a live environment, and, if it works, install it and don't look back. Whatever hiccups arise because of differences between it and Windows you'll soon figure out, and once the process is done you'll have a fully functional computer doing nearly everything you need it to.
I know. I had a big blue pop-up that filled my screen a couple of hours ago.
This is annoying. I don't like Windows 10, and I can't afford to buy a new computer to run it anyway.
P.S. I also don't see why I should be forced to replace my desktop computer. It might be 10 years old (I bought it in 2009), but it has never given me any trouble at all. Nothing. Never. It still runs perfectly, and it does everything I need it to do (which, I admit, is not what someone else might need it to do - I'm a low-profile user with minimal needs). It's nowhere near ready to be scrapped. But consumerism rules. Planned obsolescence is the way to go.
10 years ago, Microsoft planned to make this software obsolete in 2020. And they have decided to stop supporting it. There are no external factors forcing them to stop supporting it. There's nothing stopping them from continuing to put out patches occasionally. It's only their own decision stopping them from doing so.
They have made this software obsolete by their own decision, and they planned to do that 10 years ago.
But I'm not buying either new software or new hardware, so this issue doesn't apply to me. My current software meets my needs, and my current hardware runs my current software. So I don't care if new software won't run on my old computer, because I'm not using new software.
But you're not the one being expected to: a) buy new software; b) buy new hardware to run the new software.
This is just a money-making exercise for Microsoft. They stop spending money on software that people aren't buying any more, and they earn more money by forcing people to buy new software.
I don't surf a lot of dodgy websites. I don't open email attachments from unknown senders (I sometimes don't even open attachments from known senders). I see this as a low risk.
And, seeing as the alternative is going to cost me hundreds of dollars that I just can't afford... I kind of have to take this risk.
That said, I'll probably start investigating Linux soon. I tried it out when Windows Vista support was being discontinued. I eventually found a cheap (legal) copy of Windows 7 instead. However, I wasn't disappointed by the Linux distro I tried out. I've known this day was coming for years, and Linux has always been my Plan B.
Unfortunately that's the problem with W7 losing out on security updates. Exploits don't necessarily require any slip up on your part. All they need is an open hole to crawl through. Without security updates, those holes will only continue to be discovered and never closed. Most of those, thankfully, will be avoidable with hyperparanoid security practices.
But then they'll discover a bug in the font engine that gets them kernel level access, and the only thing you have to do is accidentally allow that font to appear on your screen somewhere, anywhere. That's happened before. Multiple times.
If you're "lucky" it might be big and bad enough that MS even backports the patches even to unsupported OSs. Even back to XP in the case of EternalBlue, the exploit used in the WannaCry ransomware that, even with patches out 2 months in advance, still tore across computer systems across the globe like it was 1999. Seriously, I think it's been about that long since any malware was able to run as rampant as that.
Anyway, that's my little half-informed rant on security I make every few months. Sadly good hygiene isn't enough if you're looking to stay ahead of malware. Up to date security patches are a must.
Reading through this thread and your concerns, this really seems like the way to go. You seem to place a high value on control over the software you own, as well as privacy and choice. All of these point towards Linux in my opinion. It can be a bit annoying if there's specific software you need to run that only runs on Windows, but that's definitely not insurmountable. I'd really recommend trying out Ubuntu and configuring it how you like. For most users, that's the only distribution they will ever want or need.
As others have said: if you're not committed to running AAA new games on your computer, then Linux is a fantastic choice. There are a lot of pain-free, long term solutions that are free and Free and that will run on your old hardware, and I think that there are enough people in ~tech and ~comp that would be happy to help out if you end up going this route that you shouldn't have any problems.
Yeah sadly I think Microsoft heavily radicalized the people who were already wanting to stick on W7. They are the only ones to blame though, with the malware-tier dark patterns and deceptions, all shoving users towards a comparatively dystopian hybrid mobile OS with unprecedented levels of telemetry and advertising baked right into the thing. How many years has it been and all the complaints that existed about it at launch are still basically there, with even a few new ones having been added on since. I don't blame people for wanting to stick it out on W7. Maybe there'll be a community effort like there was on XP for a community driven service pack to try and maintain things themselves.
And yeah you can still upgrade for free even though that's "ended"
I think windows update works, but the one time I tried that it had other (non activation) issues. In the end, I installed windows 10 from a fresh install image. In the installer, say you will buy it later to install the trial. Then, once setup, put the windows 7 or 8 key in the activation screen. It will activate and give you a new and different windows 10 key. Optionally, you can then transfer that key to be tied to a Microsoft account, which makes it easier to reactivate if windows decides you changed hardware.
In the FAQ of the OP's link:
They say that but it's still free.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/14/21065140/how-to-upgrade-microsoft-windows-7-10-free-os
Just download the installer and run it. But honestly, at this point you should just switch to Ubuntu.
I don't think they'll ever be able to truly end it, not without more effort on MS's part than they (apparently) think is worth. Since the free upgrade was based on the W7/W8 product keys that the machines had, they have to allow those to remain valid for W10 due to reinstalls and the like.
If they wanted, they could invalidate any W7/8 keys not used to activate W10 by that 2016 date, but again, that seems to be more work than MS wants to do.
Just curious how you feel about this line of thinking if you apply it to other software. If you made an app and sold it, would you expect to support it... forever? If you released a new major upgrade with a new version number (i.e. v1 to v2), you'd expect to continue supporting v1 forever, in addition to v2? You're arguing that releasing a piece of software obliges you to support that software indefinitely?
There is no "finished" state for a modern operating system, especially not one that is meant to be networked.
I don't think this argument will win much favour here. While you've stated very directly that this was planned, and the product is now obsolete, usually, from most definitions I've seen, a degree of maliciousness or ulterior motivation needs to be present, and the lifecycle of the product much usually be shorter than the expected average duration of other products in the industry. None of that is really apparent in this instance.
10 years is a long time for software. Microsoft no longer considers it feasible to continue patching it. They have even literally offered you a free upgrade to the next release if you'd like it. Maybe try macOS! The product lifecycle is closer to two years! 😆
That was three years ago. And it was
an upgradea conversion to a product I neither wanted nor needed - except insofar as Microsoft required me to need it.Also, it's to their advantage that I install their new operating system with its key-logging, user monitoring, and the ability to serve me advertisements. There's no benefit to me in any of that. That was for their benefit, not mine.
You say there was no malicious intent. Profiteering may not be malicious, but that doesn't make it a good motive.
You may not like the option on offer, but they did offer it to you nonetheless! Whether you accept is up to you, though. I agree there's not a lot of things to like about Windows 10 however.
At the risk of dog-piling as you mentioned down-thread, you'll be a lot better off with some flavour of linux or macOS. Perhaps elementaryOS, which is mac-ish clone of macOS. Depends on your persuasions though, and ultimately the only person who can find the right product is you. I'd be interested in hearing what you pick at some point in ~tech or ~comp and your rationale—given you've previously expressed a dislike-of-tech-and-its-purveyors sentiment (which I can fully understand).
If you aren't turned off from Windows completely, you might want to look into Windows 10 LTSC. Supposedly it's like Windows 10 but with more Windows 7-like tracking and no cortana or adware. Don't know if it can be legally acquired if you're not a business but it isn't to hard to get through other means :^)
Where do you draw the line? Should Microsoft still be distributing security updates for Windows 95?
I'm sorry but this actually bothers me. This is not what planned obsolescence, as a concept, refers to. Deciding beforehand on a hard limit on ongoing support or services is not planned obsolescence any more than an Internet Service Provider setting a limit on how long you can benefit from a certain type of contract is planned obsolescence.[1]
You mentioned elsewhere in the thread that you're considering switching to Linux, but some of the larger Distros do the exact same thing. In comparing them Windows 7's 10 years of support is comparatively normal. For example Debian, one of the larger distros, officially terminates support for each version much, much more quickly, mostly for the reasons others have already explained.
[1]Aside from this planned obsolescence usually means a product becoming unusable after a predetermined period of time. The root issue people have with it being that a product might have continued to operate had it not been been subject to the policy. Versions of an operating system that are End-of-Life don't actually cease functioning, no patch is put out that disables them or bricks your computer. Your version of Windows 7 will theoretically continue to run for however long as physical reality allows it.
By your logic almost every product ever made by mankind has been made by with planned obsolescence. Except maybe a few things with lifetime guarantees like Zippo lighters, I guess.
Even for products with lifetime guarantees, let's take Craftsman tools for example, it would seem that by OP's logic, that would not be enough. OP does not simply want the tool to be replaced for free with a newer tool, they want their existing tool to be constantly maintained and repaired for the entire time they wish to use the product. To me, it seems to be an unrealistic expectation of the developers of the software/product to provide nonstop support for an outdated and, frankly, technologically worse older product when there is a newer, more advanced product available for free.
The for free is important here. If it was a paid upgrade (and it was offered for free for years, regardless of the debate about its current cost) he'd be in a slightly stronger position, but given he was offered a free upgrade it's a hard case for him to make.
Eh. Just because it doesn't come with a price tag doesn't mean it doesn't come with a cost. W10 is free because you pay with personal info MS can collect to target ads at you. Not to mention the 50,000 ways user choice is stripped away. Like any price tag, that's a cost some aren't willing to pay.
That doesn't really obligate Microsoft to keep supporting the old version, though. It explains why some might choose not to upgrade, but if you're not paying "the cost" are they really obliged to keep supporting you?
No, not at all. You can't support every version of software forever. It's just that there's more to it for some than a free upgrade.
You're not having the same argument as OP was then. What arguments would you give for expecting Microsoft to continue Win7 support?
Myself, none. I don't think they should continue supporting it. It had a good run. But I don't blame people for not wanting to take the free upgrade because it was really manipulatively done and had pages worth of side effects and drawbacks.
Guess I'm not saying OP is right, just that it's not surprising that everyone on W7 is upset and still on W7.
Fair enough. I just can't sympathise. They can keep using it unsupported, upgrade to the free upgrade, or swap to another OS. Just seems greedy to expect indefinite support.
Even without the "software needs to be replaced eventually mindset" I still don't think they're in the wrong here. They provided a decade of support and then offered a free upgrade to a new version they plan on upgrading for the forseeable future, ditching the old model completely. You could have a bought a license for Win7 in 2010 and presumably keep using it for Win10 for 20+ years until they make some major OS changes that completely rework their license system.
It really should be noted that this is also some of the best value in proprietary software licensing out there. You only get charged once for 10 years of support, and realistically you get it thrown in for free with the purchase of your computer. Compare that to other perpetual licenses which may not include any updates at all, and where a new release may be only 1 year away.
But realistically if you are paying for something with as much active development and support as Windows, you are going to be given a SaaS style license. And if you stop paying for that, you lose access to the software.
That's the thing with commercial licenses. If you don't agree with the terms, you shouldn't accept them. Period.
I've explained my thinking in this comment.
I was hesitant to get into Windows 10, but Windows 10 with OpenShell / Classic Shell does help us avoid the awful start menu with tiles.
I think you said you were against this before, but Windows 10 LTSC is really the way to go. It avoids all of the unnecessary crap that the other versions come packaged with.
As for hardware, I've found that Windows 10 runs as well, if not better than Windows 7. I can only speak for LTSC, but I know others have had a similar experience.
And I've said it again a few times right in this very thread. :)
I don't want an operating system with a built-in key-logger. I don't want an operating system that serves me advertisements. I don't like the tile-based interface. I use it at work, and I do not like Windows 10. It might be just a personal preference, but it's my personal preference, which makes it important to me.
While technically true, I think it is worth mentioning that it is logging typing data for the sake of autocompletion, spelling correction, or word-prediction, much in the same way your average cell phone keyboard does. Likewise, this really only applies to a small set of functions related to Cortana and searching from the start menu (and handwriting/touchscreen typing). Further, you can quite easily turn off this functionality. (To which, I have done exactly this myself since I also disabled Cortana and trust my ability to type correctly into a search box.)
Oh, well. If my privacy is being invaded to make it easier for other people to type...
...that doesn't make it better.
And, everything I researched at the time said that there were some monitoring functions in Windows 10 which could not be deactivated at all - not even by people with expertise in this area (unlike me).
As I said, you can opt out of sending that data. (For that matter, the new Windows 10 installer gives you this as a privacy option during the install. It is also an option under the general privacy settings.) Granted, I do admit, it should have been opt in, instead of opt out.
There were a lot of warranted concerns upon the release of Windows 10 about privacy infringement and transparency regarding the data that is collected. Unfortunately, it took Microsoft until 2017 to begin addressing these concerns.
Things are improving. Microsoft started publishing reports on what telemetry it collects. They also released the diagnostic data viewer that shows you everything that is collected. The privacy dashboard has been redesigned to give more clear/greater control.
I cannot really comment on the exact functions you are worried about being monitored, as I don't know which ones they are.
I mean, you can claim Microsoft are doing all of this in bad faith, and it means nothing as long as they ultimately hold control and can 'break in' whenever they want. To which, I guess that means you are going to have to trust a commercial entity to not take malicious actions against you or take advantage of you. Granted, that was true of Windows 7 as well.
If all of that seems too dismal, then there's always Linux! (I'd recommend some variant of Linux Mint if you want something that has been tried, tested, and feels similar to Windows.)
So let me get this straight...
Your issues are you don't like a type of interface that can be turned off with a couple of clicks, you don't like a bunch of "privacy invading" settings that don't do what fear mongering websites have convinced you they do and that can also be turned off with a couple of clicks, and you don't like that a company at some point has to cut the umbilical cord and stop supporting an old product as it is no longer financially viable to do so? Are you still using an original Nokia 3310? I'm a bit into retrocomputing, but I don't complain that there are no updates for Win 3.1.
I get that you aren't tech savvy, that's fine, most people aren't and you don't need to be to get by. However, willful ignorance is not an excuse. No one is making you upgrade. The OS won't suddenly stop working. You just have to accept a level of risk because you choose to use something that will only become more vulnerable as time goes on, the same with nearly anything in the world.
That said, there are easily applied skins for Linux that can make your experience with it during everyday use nearly impossible to discern from Win 7 and you can get versions of Linux that'll run on just about anything in perpetuity for however long your outdated hardware lasts.
There are skins for Plasma that look like Windows but I've yet to see someone configure any DE to actually behave exactly like Windows.
Not exactly, but passable enough to even make my utterly non-tech savvy father not tell any difference. He kept getting crap on his Win7 machine due to being the stereotypical open everything anyone sends him person and so I ended up wiping his computer and doing this to his machine.
That makes sense. LTSC + OpenShell bypasses the tiles and ads, at least... but I get what you're saying.
A buddy of mine is sticking with Windows 7 until Jesus himself comes and forces him to update.
If you do dig into Linux and are new to Linux, don't copy and paste anything when you're googling. It won't take long to pick up the basics and live a very comfortable life with whichever distro you go with. I use Xubuntu with i3 (a tiling window manager.) If it weren't for some specific software, I'd use Linux full time.
I'm tending towards that approach myself. :)
well, you're in luck! Jesus is still on Windows ME.
It's not a laptop. It's a 10-year-old desktop.
(I'm not looking for solutions here, by the way. I'm just sharing my opinions. Not asking for help.)
I use Windows 10 on my work computer. I might have gotten used to it, in order to do my job, but that doesn't mean I like it.
I know. Everyone tries to help here. The instant someone on Tildes mentions a less-than-perfect computer experience, the tech crowd here rush to be helpful. I've seen people get trampled in the stampede to be helpful! :)
I've gotten used to it.
It can get somewhat overwhelming when everyone and their dog throws suggestions at you, but you weren't actually looking for suggestions.
It's nice, but sometimes it's too much of a good thing.
I think that's for the same reason that sarcasm is hit and miss on the internet. You can't tell if someone is just letting you know something bc they have a similar preference and solved it a different way VS someone seeing you do something "wrong" and wanting to correct it.
I don't usually get bothered by small aside comments, but if I've re-iterated something a bunch yet each reply gives the impression they haven't even read what I wrote, then I start to write it off and assume they're among the "do it my way" crowd.
Unfortunately though, even if what they said is good advice, I can accidentally read something as preachy/sarcastic/glib and then I'll stubbornly avoid it like the plague. Funny how we can be sometimes.
It's a free upgrade for Windows 7, you don't need a new computer to run it. And even if it wasn't a free upgrade, there would be nothing stopping you from buying a copy and installing it on your older hardware.
But you don't have to upgrade to Windows 10. You can easily keep using Windows 7 - it just won't get security updates any more. As long as you're aware of that and willing to accept the risks associated with it, there's nothing stopping you from using Windows 7 indefinitely.
If using Windows isn't essential for you, I suggest using Linux. It's free, runs great on older hardware and quite easy to switch over if you choose a distribution (flavor) like Manjaro. It's also just as user friendly as Windows if you use something like the KDE Desktop (software that controls how your system looks.) You just download it to a thumbdrive, plug it in, reboot your computer, and it will walk you through installing it, which consists of clicking a few 'next' buttons (very similar to installing Windows 10). I'm happy to help you if you DM me.
Rest in peace one of the (maybe the?) most popular OSs of all time. It had a good run. I guess my parents will finally need to finance a new PC now or end up being forced to sooner or later when it drops dead due to some new virus. (And, unlike algernon, my PC takes 30 seconds to open a chrome tab and has 512 MB of ram, which is definitely not fine.) Unfortunately, like algernon my mother bought the windows phone and she most definitely doesn't want that experience on a computer, and setting up a distro seems pretty difficult and seems like it has pretty bad consequences if you fail.
Which is not a requirement on Win10 and only a couple of clicks away from being the Win 7 style interface (start menu, program/folder list, etc). Windows 10 isn't WIndows 8 where they forced that sort of interface.
Change is always going to be hard, so there's going to have to be some ponying through it no matter what. But as I see your parents have a few options:
I'm faced with a similar dilemma.
My dad (in his 70s) is using my old PC which I originally purchased back in 2011. Gave it to him when I upgraded in 2015. His old computer which he had since 2005 at that point continually had problems, had to be wiped on a regular basis because it was continually being infected with viruses and was too weak to run an OS newer than Windows XP, which had long since been depreciated.
It's currently running Windows 10 but the latest major software update won't install due to what I presume are firmware compatibility issues based on the error codes. It looks like I won't be able to get this update to install without flashing the BIOS on the motherboard and installing new firmware somehow, which I'm uncomfortable doing as a DIY job because it could brick the PC, and may not actually fix the issue.
It's a pain in the ass for my dad to use the PC at the moment because it continually goes into lengthy loops of attempting to install the update, failing, then taking an hour or longer to revert to previous settings every time he has to reboot it.
I could try disabling automatic updates to break this lengthy loop, but that's just a bandaid fix which means his PC won't have the latest security updates. The only other alternative I can think of is buying a new PC, but he's kinda strapped for cash.
Linux is also a bad idea. He has problems remembering how to do basic tasks on Windows 10. Ubuntu would be a mindfuck to him.
I've been enjoying Windows 10 quite a lot as it has grown and evolved since release. It's the first version of Windows that feels as fun as OSX, especially now that Windows Subsystem for Linux is in a good place and Windows Terminal is available. It's like I get the best of both worlds now. I've set up an environment with Visual Studio Code that exists almost entirely on the Ubuntu subsystem that runs almost natively through Windows. WSL2 coming this year should be even closer to native too, with more Unix features working too.
There's a few things that still aren't fun, like bouncing between different kinds of setup menus to find the option you want (why are both Sounds and Sound Options available choices when you right click the speaker icon, and then why do they take you to entirely different menus with entirely different options to adjust?) and the Start menu is nowhere near as good as it was in Windows 7 without heavy, heavy customization. And even then, there's not much room to customize. But, hey, Windows 8 ruined the Start function so much, it basically trained me to rarely ever use the Start menu for anything but typing in a search for what I want—which is honestly a lot faster and less intrusive than the Start menu anyway.
Sidenote, had to deal with Windows 8 again recently. It's worse than you remember. I used W8 as my primary OS for about 2 years and it still took me nearly 5 minutes to figure out how to Power Off the computer before I remembered that stupid swipe right menu nonsense.
In terms of telemetry and privacy issues: collossal meh. It's overblown. You can turn so much of it off, and W10 is pretty upfront about it. In such a day and age, that alone inspires confidence since so many other platforms don't mention it much at all. And in terms of trust, Microsoft was the only one of the big four companies who wasn't sending out voice recordings to third parties from what I understand. I'd say that makes them more trustworthy than Google, Amazon, and Apple. Maybe they did too, but then that just puts them on the same level as the others for me.
I finally got my workplace almost completely to windows 10 computers. Our IT has some idiotic rule that they will only support computers if they are in warranty, so our department had to uselessly spend money on new desktops to replace perfectly fine computers. There is a bit of software we use that needs every single core you can throw at it, but needs very little memory and almost no GPU power. Our replacement computer for that was a $4000+ monstrosity with a top of the line quadro and like 80 gigs of ram. I could have built a computer that would have performed better for our use case for less than half of that. I even priced out some prebuilts that would have been better for just over half that (and from the same company IT uses exclusively). But no, corporate America would rather throw money at perfectly functional hardware rather than throw a windows 10 image on it. Oh well, it's not my money.
Being in IT, I get where they're coming from. The money you same from things being in warranty is great. You have a problem, call Dell and they'll send out a tech to do all the work for you while you can focus on the other bigger tasks. If you don't have that, then you have to troubleshoot the hardware (which can take a very long time), identify what piece is dying, buy it, wait for it to ship, then find the time to install it. By that point you're hoping that it was the proper fix. From a hardware enthusiasts perspective it makes no sense to them to go the warranty route, because why not good it yourself? But from a business standpoint it makes a lot more sense. You save time and money from replacing shit by having someone come out and do it for you.
Not only that, hardware vulnerabilities can pop up here and there, and replacing hardware keeps that chance more minimal. Software vulnerabilities can be patched pretty easily, not hardware ones (ie Spectre/meltdown). There were patches for them that mitigate the situation, but now that a hardware exploit is out there it will be very hard to keep 100% secure on a software level.
Yeah, I agree with the warranty policy in general, but we weren't asking them to fix any issues. We were asking them to throw their (mostly) generic windows 10 image on it and let us deal with any issues. In the end, I manually imaged it with an image from one of our other computers.
KDE released a video about Plasma, suggesting Windows 7 users to try Linux.
I'm working a call center job with all web and VDI tools and no reason to still be on 7, but I guess they're too cheap to stop paying for support. Such is life.
I'm in retail, and we've even updated three of the store computers to 10, but none of the rest, including my department's. I don't know why they're dragging their feet on pushing 10 to the rest, since we already had a massive breach of employee info six years ago (thankfully before I started working for them), and handle customer card data that has to be PCI compliant.
Guess I'll find out tomorrow if they finally pushed 10 out to the remainder now that 7's fully out of support.
Never used windows 7 but I don’t see a big problem people should just upgrade to windows 10 it is the best one yet also more Secure
Windows 10 has the ridiculous settings menu for some things and the control panel for others, has tonnes of telemetry and tracking you can't remove and ships ads in its start menu.
the tracking and telemetry has been included all the way back since Vista. The jump from W7 to W10 in terms of regression on privacy concern is somewhat overblown. You can remove them but the more thorough you are in doing this the more you risk breaking functionality. Ads and Cortana can simply be turned off without much trouble.
You can't remove them without registry edits and even then, they get changed back all the time. Cortana being right there in the start menu certainly doesn't help people's perceptions though. Ads can also be removed with regestry edits but nothing else which means that most people have no way of disabling this crap.
The forced updates and general lack of consistency as to where settings are is also not helping the situation.
Don’t get me wrong it’s Trash compared with Mac OS but I think it’s a lot more stable than previous versions
Yeah, just some Javascript-centric garbage. That's what the page has inside its only
<h1>tag, which should usually be the title:Interesting to see Microsoft using Angular.