I had this full submission typed out before I accidentally closed the tab, so if this seems a bit rushed I apologize :)

The current problem with ~ is, in my mind, a lack of shared understanding between the "older" and "newer" users, about what the main focus of the site should be. I was lucky enough to join the site fairly early on, and with the exponential growth of the site, I've noticed a few changes.

There seems to be a "struggle" between link/article submissions and discussion posts. While each have their benefits, in ~'s current state, I do not think it's possible for both to work in harmony with the site.

The benefits of discussion posts are that they encourage community, and well, discussion. Discussion posts are great for the generally serious nature of the site as well. One of my main reasons for leaving reddit was the lack of genuine, interesting conversation that didn't dissolve into meta memes within two comments. On tildes, I've commented more than in my past few years on reddit because of this.

Link submissions don't encourage community or discussion, usually. Not always, but in most cases the user will post the article and move on. The same goes for users coming across it, they will just "upvote and move on", which doesn't seem to be very beneficial to ~ or its community.

The second problem with link submissions is the voting system. Right now on ~, you cannot downvote something. This was fine earlier when most posts were discussion based, but downvotes can be useful for link/article submissions. It can help cut out noise or blatantly clickbait/advertising articles.

I think there needs to be a way to distinguish between these two types of posts, or simply decide what the main focus of the site should be, and stick with that. What are your thoughts on this?

Are users supposed to be able to continue to comment in topics that have been deleted? Once deleted, topics are no longer visible to the group, but the topic is still accessible by URL and users can continue to comment. I just want to clarify if this is the intended functionality or a bug.

Example: https://tildes.net/~test/280/deleted_topic

Tildes is 100% donation-supported. It sounds great but I'm doubtful it's a sustainable model. Countless sites have started this way but ended up seeking other ways to monetize, including...

1. Showing ads on the site
2. Intermingling "sponsored posts" or "promoted posts" with regular posts, basically giving preferential treatment to content from users who paid for extra visibility (native advertising)
3. Selling user data
4. Cryptocurrency mining (either with user permission or on the sly)
5. Opening a store for selling branded merch
6. Periodic "pledge drive" fundraising campaigns
7. Enacting paywalls

I've been thinking a lot about site monetization in the abstract lately. Some of these options are better than others. Personally, I'd draw a hard line against 1-4 on Tildes. I think all of those are in direct opposition to what this site is all about.

I think 5 is a "good in theory, but not in practice" idea. A merch store might generate enough revenue for the first few months but would see rapidly diminishing returns. It would have to resort to increasingly gimmicky promotions just to reach eyeballs and meet its goals.

I think 6 could be a popular option but I personally recoil from the annual hard-sell guilt trip. The recurring drama of "THIS COULD BE OUR LAST YEAR IF YOU DO NOTHING" is exhausting and paints the site's future as constantly in turmoil.

Finally we come to 7, the paywall. Traditionally I hate these too, especially when they block content like news that is available for free elsewhere. Sometimes they are "soft" paywalls that give you free access to an article (or the first few paragraphs of one) before they ask you to pony up. I feel that these are the worst form of paywall because they tease and frustrate users, and are often easily circumventable anyway.

That said, I think a "hard" paywall might actually be a good choice for Tildes. For starters, this is already a walled garden. We're actively trying to cultivate a community by not exposing the site to the wider world. That would at least make the transition to a paywall easier to swallow than if the site had been open the whole time.

It's 2018. By now it's evident to me that TANSTAAFL online. If you're not paying for something, you are the product. I'm a dyed in the wool cheapskate and I don't like opening my wallet to use a website, but at this point I'm even more tired of being treated like a commodity. If I'm going to invest in an online community, I'd much rather pay a small subscription for access than be jerked around in shady ways. I feel it's the most honest and straightforward solution for a site like this.

Caveats are that it would need to be cheap. Really cheap, like $1 a month. I don't know what the site's operating expenses are, but I would hope something in that ballpark would cover them, at scale. Also @Deimos would face the temptation to implement multiple options from the list as time goes on. Like, after we're used to the paywall, he might want to add "unobtrusive" ads too, or start selling "non-identifiable" user information. I think it's vital that the site never compromise like that. Raise the price if it comes to that, but don't get greedy. A page in the docs formalizing some promises about respecting users would be a nice thing to put on the record.

What are your thoughts? I should say that I'm talking about the future here, I think it's way too early to put up a paywall now. The community would have to be large and mature enough to justify a paid subscription to it, and we're not there yet.

One thing that's always annoyed me about reddit is that sorting a thread by "new" isn't as useful as scrolling down to the end of a discussion on traditional forum software like phpbb. I propose two ways of sorting threads:

• Breadth-first: Exactly the same as the current sort on reddit and tildes. Each nesting level is sorted independently.
  This sort makes it easy to find the oldest discussion of a thread, as well as new top-level comments.
• Depth-first: Newer replies 'bump' threads. The timestamp of the latest reply of any depth determines the sorting of all of the parents.
  This sort makes it easy to find the newest discussion.

I'm super used to sites like reddit, hackernews, lobsters, and voat which have votes on the left of posts. Can we have an option to swap which side we see votes on?

edit: On larger screens it's also a significant distance between titles and votes.

~ takes privacy pretty seriously, which I’m a big fan of. Can’t say I’ve seen any other sites where even your email is hashed, but I like it.

What I’m curious about are the invite codes. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Deimos is going to do anything nefarious, but I did use one of my personal (albeit secondary) emails to request my invite code. Thus, would it be possible to trace the invite code used to create my account back to that email in any way? Or is the code not stored anywhere once it’s used?

Edit: yes, I realize this account uses my real name, and I’ve linked to my personal gitlab before. For the time being in a community this small, I don’t mind. I may end up creating a new account when the website opens the floodgates, but that’s neither here nor there.

Some sort of "friends" feature would be a welcome addition. I've had some great conversations with folks and would like to be able to keep track of them so 1) I can remember that I like them and 2) so I can keep up with their interesting posts.

Thanks for considering!

EDIT grammar

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no good fit for topics ranging from personal finance, investing, portfolio management, budgeting, running a business, markets, etc. Seems ~finance or similar could be a catch-all for a massive category of topics that don't have a place currently.

One of the unfortunate realities of open source efforts is that these efforts are often fragmented and scattered all over the place, making things difficult to find. With that in mind, I've started a new GitLab project here consisting of a simple README file that we can use to start tracking the client-side themes and extensions that the community here has been hard at work developing.

The list, at the time of posting this, is empty. The README is sparse and the entire thing is subject to change by the community itself. I will only be reviewing changes to ensure that changes are acceptable before a merge is allowed through (we don't want e.g. malicious links thrown in or perfectly good projects removed by someone acting in bad faith). You can change contribution notes/guidelines, existing language, layout, categories, and whatever else you can think of. If there's something else that you think the repository could use aside from the README, then you're free to issue a merge request to have it reviewed as well.

I'm hoping that this will help us keep track of everything and aid future users in discovering the various tools and themes provided by the community.

Please feel free to discuss guidelines here. Is there anything that shouldn't be allowed on the list? Is there anything that should be taken care of immediately? Are there any immediate concerns? Is there anything else on your mind?

I know there's ~news, but I'm talking a place that specifically focuses on long, insightful articles rather than recent events. Since tildes wants to emphasize depth, I think it would be a good fit.

I see there aren't a whole lot of groups at the moment, so perhaps this would be something to consider further down the line.

I'm glad we got that extra highlight for OP comments on a post. However, sometimes when scrolling down a post, and looking for OP's comments, I will stop thinking I've found one when actually it's just a quote inside someone else's comment, which is highlighted with the same color.

Maybe we could get rid of the quote highlight and just use the indentation and lighter background? Or use another color for either of the two? Or do you think it's fine like it is now?

NOTE: I always browse of mobile and use the solarized dark theme, not sure if this is the same with other settings.

But was just really generous with giving out invite codes to its users, even host invite request threads where anonymous (non-registered) users can request an invite or something?

I think this could work and would help with the whole tree aspect tildes is holding on. Everything leads back to a tree. Groups, users, tags even mods and admins. Perhaps even keep the tree visible to only people in said tree and mods/admins, depending on user privacy settings.

What would the benefits of remaining invite only and cons?

What is the reason for displaying vote count? Could we bring even more focus to the content of a post/comment by not displaying the vote count? What would we lose if vote count is removed?

Edit: It is more transparent if the vote count is displayed. Either way I believe it requires some trust from the user that the site mechanics as vote count and sorting system is working as claimed.

Edit2: Here's an argument for why we need to see the count.

Hi! This is a minor suggestion, but when you're browsing Tilde, the vote button for comments is located at the bottom left, underneath posts. Makes sense right? Well unfortunately, this doesn't apply to your own comments, where the vote counter appears in the top left, at the beginning of the post. For consistency's sake, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to move vote counts on individual comments down to where the vote button normally is, so vote counts are always displayed in the same location?

I posted about it three days ago but in these last three days I really worked my ass off to include lots of functionalities and feel like the community is missing a lot of topics...
So, sorry, I won't spam this for the next days every three days but I felt like it deserved to be "bumped" in the activity feed at least once now that the default is just 24h.

As of today, the features are:

• management to choose which links top open in a new tab
• button to quickly jump to new comments in a topic
• button to quickly get back to the top of the page in topics (no, there isn't one to go to the bottom)
• live preview of the reply/topic box
• load external CSS to customize the UI
• add label to users

I'll just link to the original topic so you can have some context if you want, otherwise these are just the links to download it:

• Original Topic: https://tildes.net/~tildes/1oa/browser_extension_tildes_extended
• Chrome: chrome.google.com
• Firefox: addons.mozilla.org
• Source: Github (feel free to do modification and open pull requests if you'd like!)

I need feedback to know what else you'd like to see implemented or what have bugs or could be done in a different/better way!

Hey all,

There's been a huge amount of response to this post about Hyponotoad's banning that I think merits a lot more consideration than as just a bunch of fractured comment threads.

Some questions that come to mind:

~ What does it mean to have "quality discussion",?

~ How do you distinguish between quality discussion and not quality discussion?

~ What does it mean to act in "bad faith"?

~ How, as a community, do we best achieve tildes' stated goals?

Actually I didn't at first. But getting involved in more contentious discussions I've come to realize the downvote was merely used as a weapon for groupthink. It was used to facilitate echochambers by killing off dissenting voices so that they don't even show up. Taking Reddit for example, it happens across subreddits of all political ideologies - left and right - and even subs like /r/Android for criticizing things like the Pixel haha.

But I am guilty of this too, don't get me wrong. When I see a comment I dislike I itch to whack that downvote button and sometimes even do. Here, though, not having it forces me and others to actually engage the commentor they disagree with and get a good conversation out of it. I think this is so important if we want to be a site that facilitates good discussion and not easy to follow groupthink. Because I've noticed a large difference in even my own actions by how I am forced to respond to things without it.

Older comments have an unfair advantage on Tildes if you sort by votes: they have had more time to collect votes.

What's interesting is that Reddit is less affected by this problem: since the default sort is "best", which sorts by expected (in a statistical sense) upvote/downvote ratio, newer comments with a good ratio can quickly move to the top.

I don't see a straightforward way to extend this to Tildes, since we don't have downvotes. Any ideas? Of course you can sort by newest first, but then you lose the benefit of votes entirely.

Maybe we could compute the expected final number of votes, based on age, current score, and a model of how comments gather votes as they age? Is there a way to download tildes data somewhere? I could try to investigate.

I think this idea strongly aligns with Tildes philosophy of promoting "quality content", what is more quality than knowing a poster is qualified to make their claims. It separates the pseudo-science from the science.

I understand it is perhaps a cumbersome process to verify qualifications but the reward in return for having verified experts validated is hard to overstate.

I propose the flair be global and not restricted to within a group(as opposed to reddit) because if we're certain the individual has credentials that still remains in effect when they comment across disciplines. It also removes redundancy and allows the individual more freedom to branch to other communities.

The idea being if someone has a PhD in math they can flair their name with something like "PhD: Math" per post if they wish. As this is a voluntary addition (not collection) of user-data I don't think it goes against Tildes philosophy.

So I've been having a slightly off-topic discussion on a thread here and figured this would be a good subject to have wider input on.

I don't think markdown adds anything to Tildes and I think it actually degrades the experience for new users. Right now we're mostly old experienced reddit users and mods, but that hopefully will change. To me, markdown adds a not insignificant hurdle to formatting. Markdown has very few uses besides reddit and Github, and even then there's a few different types.

I suggest a WYSIWYG text box with a tabbed HTML option for those who want to use code formatting. Let's use something that's standard and encourages users to learn useful code.

Tell me why I'm wrong Tildes!

Edit: I primarily use mobile, so maybe that's part of the disconnect here. But it seems I'm the only person who cares and still thinks markdown is almost useless. I'm fine being in the minority. I still feel it's a good idea to look beyond the bleeding edge to the time when there's 300,000 or 3,000,000 uses.

Have a good day everyone!

I think it would be rather cool and suited to tildes style of conversation to have some sort of referencing system built into markdown that is similar to Wikipedia's. Users can format a link so that it appears as a superscript number in the main bulk of the text and then also appears at the bottom of the post automatically after being posted in the classic number referencing style. It could look something like this, where the webpage title would be given as well next to the page and cutoff after a certain amount of characters (please excuse my terrible paint skills). This is clearly not a necessity as we could still just use standard square and normal brackets to insert links, but I think it would be rather nifty to have a built in system that automatically creates a mini list of references, especially if the user writes a rather long, well thought out argument that might require more than a few citations.

One of the features that I use on Reddit is the 'save' button. I like to be able to return to a post a day (or two) later and see where the discussion went after I first looked at the comments section. Is this functionality going to be implemented into Tildes as well?

Save button: https://i.imgur.com/eVBA839.png

Haven't been on much for a few days, so this may have been discussed, but I think it would be really nice to have the ability to have multiple subscription groups per user (I'd be happy to work on this once the code is open-sourced if people are interested).

The reason I suggest this is that I was realizing earlier that sometimes when I log in I'm just looking for computing, tech, and science stuff while at other times I'm looking to engage in some longer conversation about current events. I think it would be very nice to be able to have multiple subscription groups so that, depending on what I'm looking for during a given visit to the site, I could focus on that but still change it to something else easily next time I come online.

I'd like to suggest site search as a Tildes feature. It would be useful to know if a topic has already been discussed by people on the site. For instance I don't know if a search feature has already been discussed.

Or perhaps I noticed a topic I wanted to follow up on later that I can't find now. Or I there was a reply that said something interesting I wanted reference, etc...

Right now it seems like a pretty happy and active alpha community.

But even if you set aside all the Russian-bought advertising during the last US election, all social media sites currently have a problem with propaganda. You can call it by other names: hail corporate, shills, AstroTurf, bot armies, sockpuppets, etc. But it eats quality discourse, kills genuine community, and at the most extreme can serve to radicalize the young and marginalized.

What pieces of Tildes are currently in place or planned fight this scourge of digital communication? What are the pitfalls and what are the successes you've seen? Because I believe if we ignore this eventuality, something really special will die.

Can we get an Edit history on posts (also potentially comments).

This is sparked by a post a few days ago in which a poster asked a question about people's standpoints on gay marriage and then published their standpoint as well, heavily against gay marriage.

I made my comment here questioning them on their standpoint and they edited their post without any evidence, making it look like I was jumping to conclusions.

Post history would prevent this kind of thing and would also equip commenters with the ability to see what OP has changed.

Please let me know if you agree or disagree for whatever reason, I am interested to hear other people's thoughts.

Edit: The poster in my comment link was banned shortly after that post. Linked by @Jedi here.

There is a user I do not wish to mention to prevent a witch Hunt or if I am wrong. In the past two days I have seen them post two topics with fairly contentious topics, but nothing was wrong with the topic itself. The user however, has a flame bait sentence in each of these posts, ex. "I am against homosexual marriage". He then waits for a few heated responses and then edits out the flame bait sentence.

This makes it look like an innocuous post is suddently full of hot heads immediately starting fights based off their assumptions and not what the user posted.

How do we deal with what seems like a troll that operates like this? I won't be posting on his posts anymore as you shouldn't feed the troll, but he definitely got me the first time and it's unreasonable to expect everyone to always be on the lookout for this.

Edit: to everyone saying I am jumping the gun by accusing him of being a troll. That may very well be, which is why I declined to name the user. Even if it's not intentional, it's causing problems if we want this to be a place for high quality discussion. Messaging @deimos has been suggested as an option and is probably the best choice for now but will not scale. What should be our solution to this issue going forward that scales?

Currently on the home page I have the list of my subscription in the sidebar, but if I click on ~tildes for example, they're all gone. I think it would make sense to see ~tildes.official in there, to make navigation easier.

New user here, just got invited and started poking around the site, and the thing that most stands out to me is the bright white theme of the site.

Its a big trend that most sites seem to not be catching onto, users want a dark theme at least as an option, because the blinding white webpages at this point almost seem dated, and if you're browsing at night/in a not very well lit room, they come off as harsh, sometimes almost blinding. You can see the demand for this being fulfilled with plugins on most sites, as the websites themselves seem to be slow to act. YouTube for instance is terrible with its default white scheme, but pretty nice if you do the "secret" dark theme. Slack too, although I use a plugin for that, same with Reddit and using RES to turn on a dark theme.

So while I know the list of things to do is probably a mile long, a dark theme would go a long way to making the site more appealing I think, and give it an edge as a more "modern" website.

When you’re universally beloved (or just posting a lot of open-ended discussion threads, one of the two), you can get a lot of replies in your inbox, and it can be a pain to mark them as read one by one. It’d be nice just to be able to zap them all.

Or, if there’s a way to do this already, please let me know.

One of the common issues that I've run into on reddit as a moderator is that lots of people put in a link and then put a bunch of text into the text area, and then they have a text link with no link.

I realize that you may have built things already in a way that is fundamentally not supportive of this, but I wonder about allowing both to coexist within one post?

I'm currently using 24 hour sort, and it's great, minus one thing - threads older than 24 hours just disappear. Perhaps a better implementation would be to keep the threads showing up underneath the <24 hour ones, but prevent them from being bumped up by new posts.

Example - if I go to ~comp right now, there are only 5 posts. Older ones, imo, should still be visible, just no longer bumping.