… and in other news EV buyers want SUVs and sedans, not minivans or trucks, survey says https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/ev-buyers-want-suvs-and-sedans-not-minivans-or-trucks-survey-says/...
… and in other news
EV buyers want SUVs and sedans, not minivans or trucks, survey says
This makes sense to me. If I'm buying an electric, I mostly want it to cart around town, probably as a secondary car. I love minivans, but if I'm replacing the one I already own, I want one that I...
This makes sense to me.
If I'm buying an electric, I mostly want it to cart around town, probably as a secondary car. I love minivans, but if I'm replacing the one I already own, I want one that I can take on road trips and cover vast distances; which I know is possible, but I don't need to add to the already large headache of going on a road trip with kids by trying to hunt down chargers and pausing for long periods of time to charge the car up.
Trucks make sense too, as (theoretically), you're hauling large things and towing and it's not really obvious how that's going to impact your range, so it makes more sense to be able to just fill up at a gas station rather than try and top up with a charge. The same really holds true for the minivan, as well; I want it to haul big stuff and sometimes that means helping people move, which can soak-up a lot of gas.
I do think we've reached all the early adopters with EV's at this point, so a drop is expected. The combination of being a new technology, without extended infrastructure, as well as being very expensive (as all cars seem to be) is likely going to keep the average Joe away for quite some time.
We are thinking about getting a used Nissan Leaf; personally I wouldn’t care if the battery was shot and had a range of 50-70 miles because that is more than my round trip to work, shopping or...
We are thinking about getting a used Nissan Leaf; personally I wouldn’t care if the battery was shot and had a range of 50-70 miles because that is more than my round trip to work, shopping or most of what I do. We have two gas cars so for a long trip we can leave it at home.
Given that so many families have multiple cars the case for an electric car with a smaller and less expensive battery might be good.
Be careful with the range estimates though. If your commute has highway miles the range is not what the Leaf says on the instrument cluster. Check out https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to get a...
Be careful with the range estimates though. If your commute has highway miles the range is not what the Leaf says on the instrument cluster. Check out https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to get a better idea of what EV will work for your commute.
I had a 2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh and my 35 mile round trip commute used about 40% - 50% of the stated 140 mile range. My commute is basically all highway miles and speed kills range depending on how the manufacturer designed the car.
Exactly our use case. We have two SUVs for long haul trips (and one doubles as a snow plow) but a 2015 Fiat 500e for the 30 mile round trip into town. Its the perfect grocery getter and we even...
Exactly our use case. We have two SUVs for long haul trips (and one doubles as a snow plow) but a 2015 Fiat 500e for the 30 mile round trip into town. Its the perfect grocery getter and we even took out the (nearly useless) back seat and made it a hatchback with surprisingly large cargo space. Sold new this car was 35k USD but we picked it up at 3 yrs old and only 20,000 miles for 8k. They've actually gone UP in price since then although there are still plenty at that price in CA and OR where they were sold. The bonus is that the Fiat is very fun to drive and very peppy and responsive - feels more like a go kart than a car and I have a hard time not driving it "exuberantly"
Your "exuberantly" adverb is well chosen. It's like that for me too. I've been keeping eco mode on all the time lately and trying to behave myself, if only for the sake of my tires, but sometimes...
Your "exuberantly" adverb is well chosen. It's like that for me too. I've been keeping eco mode on all the time lately and trying to behave myself, if only for the sake of my tires, but sometimes it's just a thrill to do a highway merge at full torque.
I picked up our first EV, a used '21 SL Plus Leaf, a couple of months ago and have found it's good for almost all of my driving. We do occasional interstate travel but I suspect the math works out such that if we kept only electric cars and rented a dinosaur-juicer for the long trips, we'd come out ahead.
This is me! It’s a perfect car for my commute. My model is a 2012, and my main complaint is that resistive heating really drains the range. If you can (and if you live in an applicable climate),...
This is me! It’s a perfect car for my commute.
My model is a 2012, and my main complaint is that resistive heating really drains the range. If you can (and if you live in an applicable climate), try for a model with a heat pump, it is much more efficient for heating the cabin.
The Rivian R1T, while not tiny, is a reasonably sized truck by 21st century American standards. I'd love to see even more reasonably sized EV pickups on the road. I see no value (in my life) of...
The Rivian R1T, while not tiny, is a reasonably sized truck by 21st century American standards. I'd love to see even more reasonably sized EV pickups on the road. I see no value (in my life) of having four seats in a pickup - I'll take 5' or greater bed and a two seat cab, please.
I rented an R1S (the 7 seat SUV variant of the R1T) for a skiing trip and it was friggin' awesome. But I already drive and EV and was perfectly happy to experience the world of non-Tesla charging for a change.
Can they make EVs not so fucking hideous though? Why not something that looks like a normal subaru or Honda civic/accord but as an EV? Instead they make abominations like the rivian with the dumb...
Can they make EVs not so fucking hideous though? Why not something that looks like a normal subaru or Honda civic/accord but as an EV? Instead they make abominations like the rivian with the dumb goofy eyes..
Well there are some models like my Fiat 500e that looks identical to its gas counterpart. Also the VW eGolf is identical to a gas Golf. But yes, in their bid to make them stand out, there are...
Well there are some models like my Fiat 500e that looks identical to its gas counterpart. Also the VW eGolf is identical to a gas Golf. But yes, in their bid to make them stand out, there are quite a few 'interesting' designs depending on your taste. Im not a fan of the Rivian headlights either but it definitely makes it stand out from every other pickup/SUV on the market and the rest of the vehicle is pretty normal.
I'm one of the people who desires an EV minivan at a reasonable (Under $30k) price. That electric VW Bus seems perfect from a design perspective. But I'm not that wealthy. I can't spend almost a...
I'm one of the people who desires an EV minivan at a reasonable (Under $30k) price. That electric VW Bus seems perfect from a design perspective.
But I'm not that wealthy. I can't spend almost a grand a month paying off a car.
This is kind of the problem with all EVs right now, and even the car market at large. At least where I live new $20k cars are few and far between. With EVs typically costing $5-10k more than their...
This is kind of the problem with all EVs right now, and even the car market at large. At least where I live new $20k cars are few and far between. With EVs typically costing $5-10k more than their ICE equivalent, it becomes even rarer to see something in that price range. I think the bottom end Nissan Leaf is the only thing I’m aware of, barring something on a huge sale. I love EVs, but I do worry about how young families will afford cars in the future as states like California move towards ending ICE sales in the next 10-15 years.
It’s not like cheap EVs don’t exist. Companies like BYD have already mastered the art of making EVs cheaply. They have a 11k USD sedan for their domestic market. GM and Ford are unlikely to figure...
It’s not like cheap EVs don’t exist. Companies like BYD have already mastered the art of making EVs cheaply. They have a 11k USD sedan for their domestic market.
GM and Ford are unlikely to figure this out anytime soon. But, Japanese and to a lesser extent European car companies will have to deal with brutal competition from the likes of BYD globally - they’ll have to figure out cheap EVs and quickly to not lose many lucrative markets. Presumably some of that will come to their US cars.
The question is really how much protectionism there’ll be for the Michigan car makers. Michigan is an important swing state, after all.
BYD is subsidized by the Chinese government and pays their Chinese workers pitiful wages. Ford and GM don't have those benefits and pay their unionized workers high wages.
BYD is subsidized by the Chinese government and pays their Chinese workers pitiful wages. Ford and GM don't have those benefits and pay their unionized workers high wages.
That’s no doubt a large factor, but Ford and GM have also increasingly trended toward large high-margin models in the past decade, so on some level their EVs targeting higher price brackets is as...
That’s no doubt a large factor, but Ford and GM have also increasingly trended toward large high-margin models in the past decade, so on some level their EVs targeting higher price brackets is as much a margin-chasing decision as it is to be able to pay workers.
Sure, that's certainly a factor as well. They both have stated as much, especially Ford with their elimination of sedans and concentration on trucks and SUVs even before breaking into the EV...
Sure, that's certainly a factor as well. They both have stated as much, especially Ford with their elimination of sedans and concentration on trucks and SUVs even before breaking into the EV market. Maybe we'll have to rely on Toyota or one of the Korean companies to produce a lower-end EV.
Does the Subaru solterra fit that bill? My sister has been researching it a bunch recently. I still wouldn’t by a first version from Subaru, but give it a few years and it should be a good choice.
Does the Subaru solterra fit that bill? My sister has been researching it a bunch recently. I still wouldn’t by a first version from Subaru, but give it a few years and it should be a good choice.
TBH, I'm in the market right now and the Chevy Bolts on sale looked mighty tempting. Though I probably wouldn't go to Baltimore for a used car, sight unseen. If money fell on me from the sky, I'd...
TBH, I'm in the market right now and the Chevy Bolts on sale looked mighty tempting. Though I probably wouldn't go to Baltimore for a used car, sight unseen. If money fell on me from the sky, I'd be delighted with a Mini EV or the pending Fiat 500e electric. I want a two-door hatchback that doesn't eat an entire parking space, can haul groceries, and doesn't weigh over a metric ton. What I'll probably end up with is a leased Prius.
… and in other news
EV buyers want SUVs and sedans, not minivans or trucks, survey says
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/ev-buyers-want-suvs-and-sedans-not-minivans-or-trucks-survey-says/
Tesla deliveries drop 8.5 percent year over year in first decline since 2020
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/04/tesla-deliveries-drop-8-5-percent-year-over-year-in-first-decline-since-2020/
This makes sense to me.
If I'm buying an electric, I mostly want it to cart around town, probably as a secondary car. I love minivans, but if I'm replacing the one I already own, I want one that I can take on road trips and cover vast distances; which I know is possible, but I don't need to add to the already large headache of going on a road trip with kids by trying to hunt down chargers and pausing for long periods of time to charge the car up.
Trucks make sense too, as (theoretically), you're hauling large things and towing and it's not really obvious how that's going to impact your range, so it makes more sense to be able to just fill up at a gas station rather than try and top up with a charge. The same really holds true for the minivan, as well; I want it to haul big stuff and sometimes that means helping people move, which can soak-up a lot of gas.
I do think we've reached all the early adopters with EV's at this point, so a drop is expected. The combination of being a new technology, without extended infrastructure, as well as being very expensive (as all cars seem to be) is likely going to keep the average Joe away for quite some time.
We are thinking about getting a used Nissan Leaf; personally I wouldn’t care if the battery was shot and had a range of 50-70 miles because that is more than my round trip to work, shopping or most of what I do. We have two gas cars so for a long trip we can leave it at home.
Given that so many families have multiple cars the case for an electric car with a smaller and less expensive battery might be good.
Be careful with the range estimates though. If your commute has highway miles the range is not what the Leaf says on the instrument cluster. Check out https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to get a better idea of what EV will work for your commute.
I had a 2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh and my 35 mile round trip commute used about 40% - 50% of the stated 140 mile range. My commute is basically all highway miles and speed kills range depending on how the manufacturer designed the car.
Exactly our use case. We have two SUVs for long haul trips (and one doubles as a snow plow) but a 2015 Fiat 500e for the 30 mile round trip into town. Its the perfect grocery getter and we even took out the (nearly useless) back seat and made it a hatchback with surprisingly large cargo space. Sold new this car was 35k USD but we picked it up at 3 yrs old and only 20,000 miles for 8k. They've actually gone UP in price since then although there are still plenty at that price in CA and OR where they were sold. The bonus is that the Fiat is very fun to drive and very peppy and responsive - feels more like a go kart than a car and I have a hard time not driving it "exuberantly"
Your "exuberantly" adverb is well chosen. It's like that for me too. I've been keeping eco mode on all the time lately and trying to behave myself, if only for the sake of my tires, but sometimes it's just a thrill to do a highway merge at full torque.
I picked up our first EV, a used '21 SL Plus Leaf, a couple of months ago and have found it's good for almost all of my driving. We do occasional interstate travel but I suspect the math works out such that if we kept only electric cars and rented a dinosaur-juicer for the long trips, we'd come out ahead.
This is me! It’s a perfect car for my commute.
My model is a 2012, and my main complaint is that resistive heating really drains the range. If you can (and if you live in an applicable climate), try for a model with a heat pump, it is much more efficient for heating the cabin.
Personally I want an EV truck - but everything on the market is HUGE. What happened to small pickup trucks?!
The Rivian R1T, while not tiny, is a reasonably sized truck by 21st century American standards. I'd love to see even more reasonably sized EV pickups on the road. I see no value (in my life) of having four seats in a pickup - I'll take 5' or greater bed and a two seat cab, please.
I rented an R1S (the 7 seat SUV variant of the R1T) for a skiing trip and it was friggin' awesome. But I already drive and EV and was perfectly happy to experience the world of non-Tesla charging for a change.
Can they make EVs not so fucking hideous though? Why not something that looks like a normal subaru or Honda civic/accord but as an EV? Instead they make abominations like the rivian with the dumb goofy eyes..
IMHO there's a lot of cars that are rather ugly coming out today, EV or not.
Agree. I think this is overall a pretty bad period in automotive design. About the best you can get is boring.
I guess people do have all kinds of tastes. I personally love the look of the Rivian vehicles.
Well there are some models like my Fiat 500e that looks identical to its gas counterpart. Also the VW eGolf is identical to a gas Golf. But yes, in their bid to make them stand out, there are quite a few 'interesting' designs depending on your taste. Im not a fan of the Rivian headlights either but it definitely makes it stand out from every other pickup/SUV on the market and the rest of the vehicle is pretty normal.
There are a lot in my city and you really get used to them. I like them quite a bit once they stopped being an oddity.
I'm one of the people who desires an EV minivan at a reasonable (Under $30k) price. That electric VW Bus seems perfect from a design perspective.
But I'm not that wealthy. I can't spend almost a grand a month paying off a car.
This is kind of the problem with all EVs right now, and even the car market at large. At least where I live new $20k cars are few and far between. With EVs typically costing $5-10k more than their ICE equivalent, it becomes even rarer to see something in that price range. I think the bottom end Nissan Leaf is the only thing I’m aware of, barring something on a huge sale. I love EVs, but I do worry about how young families will afford cars in the future as states like California move towards ending ICE sales in the next 10-15 years.
EV prices have been trending down. The supply chain for EVs are still ramping up. The market in 10-15 years won't be as bad as it is today.
It’s not like cheap EVs don’t exist. Companies like BYD have already mastered the art of making EVs cheaply. They have a 11k USD sedan for their domestic market.
GM and Ford are unlikely to figure this out anytime soon. But, Japanese and to a lesser extent European car companies will have to deal with brutal competition from the likes of BYD globally - they’ll have to figure out cheap EVs and quickly to not lose many lucrative markets. Presumably some of that will come to their US cars.
The question is really how much protectionism there’ll be for the Michigan car makers. Michigan is an important swing state, after all.
BYD is subsidized by the Chinese government and pays their Chinese workers pitiful wages. Ford and GM don't have those benefits and pay their unionized workers high wages.
That’s no doubt a large factor, but Ford and GM have also increasingly trended toward large high-margin models in the past decade, so on some level their EVs targeting higher price brackets is as much a margin-chasing decision as it is to be able to pay workers.
Sure, that's certainly a factor as well. They both have stated as much, especially Ford with their elimination of sedans and concentration on trucks and SUVs even before breaking into the EV market. Maybe we'll have to rely on Toyota or one of the Korean companies to produce a lower-end EV.
Unlike the others in this thread, apparently. Some talking about buying a third car? Wouldn't that be nice
Still waiting on EV AWD wagon. From a reputable brand.
Does the Subaru solterra fit that bill? My sister has been researching it a bunch recently. I still wouldn’t by a first version from Subaru, but give it a few years and it should be a good choice.
I'm really hoping that by the time a car upgrade makes sense for me, a "real" EV Outback is available
From what I’ve seen the Toyota bZ4X/Lexus RZ/Subaru Solterra have had a lot of issues, but it’s not something I’ve investigated in depth.
It might, I'm in the same boat, would want a few years before I would buy one given they are so new to the EV game.
While I'm also not one to be an early adopter of something so expensive, Subaru did partner with Toyota for the Solterra.
TBH, I'm in the market right now and the Chevy Bolts on sale looked mighty tempting. Though I probably wouldn't go to Baltimore for a used car, sight unseen. If money fell on me from the sky, I'd be delighted with a Mini EV or the pending Fiat 500e electric. I want a two-door hatchback that doesn't eat an entire parking space, can haul groceries, and doesn't weigh over a metric ton. What I'll probably end up with is a leased Prius.