45 votes

Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars

20 comments

  1. [13]
    redwall_hp
    Link
    Interesting (and very timely for me) video about hybrid misconceptions, with an explanation of how the Atkinson Cycle and Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive works. Some of my takeaways: One interesting...

    Interesting (and very timely for me) video about hybrid misconceptions, with an explanation of how the Atkinson Cycle and Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive works.

    Some of my takeaways:

    1. One interesting insight is that hybrids are not trying to be "EVs with a generator." It's more like the principle of a turbocharger in a four-banger: take the more efficient (but less powerful) Atkinson Cycle engine and give it a boost to compensate. Hybrids actively avoid using the engine as a glorified generator. The goal is to boost up to cruising speed, where less power is necessary. Much of the fuel savings come from the more efficient engine, and not just what's basically idle-stop behavior (which many cars have now, with not nearly the economy benefit).

    2. The Hybrid Synergy Drive is remarkably simple, and indeed removes many literal moving parts from the car. I had no idea it was basically just doing silly (smart) things with a differential. It even eliminates the starter motor.

    23 votes
    1. [2]
      kari
      Link Parent
      I haven’t watched yet but Definitely explains some stuff to me! My girlfriend recently got a hybrid Camry and I was amazed at how efficient it is on the highway compared to on local, short drives.

      I haven’t watched yet but

      The goal is to boost up to cruising speed, where less power is necessary. Much of the fuel savings come from the more efficient engine, and not just what's basically idle-stop behavior

      Definitely explains some stuff to me! My girlfriend recently got a hybrid Camry and I was amazed at how efficient it is on the highway compared to on local, short drives.

      9 votes
      1. hobbes64
        Link Parent
        I also have a recent Camry and I’m impressed that it gets just about 50 mpg without much effort and I can sometimes get over 60 if I try hard and don’t worry about how other drivers don’t like it...

        I also have a recent Camry and I’m impressed that it gets just about 50 mpg without much effort and I can sometimes get over 60 if I try hard and don’t worry about how other drivers don’t like it when I barely accelerate.

        6 votes
    2. [8]
      Zorind
      Link Parent
      I just had to replace my starter motor for like $800 :( Should’ve bought a hybrid I guess

      It even eliminates the starter motor

      I just had to replace my starter motor for like $800 :(

      Should’ve bought a hybrid I guess

      3 votes
      1. [5]
        sandaltree
        Link Parent
        On the flip side, our hybrid has refused to start twice because the start-up battery was low. Had to call a technician and get it replaced. Apparently you have to regularly drive drives over 30min...

        On the flip side, our hybrid has refused to start twice because the start-up battery was low. Had to call a technician and get it replaced.

        Apparently you have to regularly drive drives over 30min once a week to keep it happy, which we don’t do consistently.. It’s a PITA.

        7 votes
        1. stewedrabbit
          Link Parent
          There are plenty of powerbanks on the market that give more than sufficient juice to jump start the car. Just look for battery car boosters - it will not take all the pain away, but certainly the...

          There are plenty of powerbanks on the market that give more than sufficient juice to jump start the car. Just look for battery car boosters - it will not take all the pain away, but certainly the ITA part :)

          By the way, I took one that also can inflate tires, so the powerbank gets regularly use out of that - I'm inflating all bike tires every month now with a smile. And I also learned that for a hybrid car, you really don't need that much juice at all. I took some margin: the specs are 20.000 mAh, 2750A, 60Wh, and I notice hardly any battery drain when jump starting the car. So you can take the specs as a generous overdimensioning.

          4 votes
        2. tildesatwindmills
          Link Parent
          You could fit a battery maintainer (brand names: Battery Tender, others) which is a low charge rate charger for your start battery. They are inexpensive, have quick disconnect cords that you could...

          You could fit a battery maintainer (brand names: Battery Tender, others) which is a low charge rate charger for your start battery. They are inexpensive, have quick disconnect cords that you could just plug in once a week overnight (or longer, won't hurt) and keep the battery healthy.

          1 vote
        3. [2]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          I wonder if hybrids are still using NiCd batteries? That was one of the decisions I always thought was kind of silly because they wear down so quickly in comparison to lithium.

          I wonder if hybrids are still using NiCd batteries? That was one of the decisions I always thought was kind of silly because they wear down so quickly in comparison to lithium.

          1. redwall_hp
            Link Parent
            The one I'm looking at (2026 Civic) is definitely Li-Ion. The newer Prius models with non-potato performance (2024+) also have Li-Ion.

            The one I'm looking at (2026 Civic) is definitely Li-Ion. The newer Prius models with non-potato performance (2024+) also have Li-Ion.

            1 vote
      2. redwall_hp
        Link Parent
        No alternators on hybrids, either. I had to replace one of those on a car a few months ago too, and it was about $900.

        No alternators on hybrids, either. I had to replace one of those on a car a few months ago too, and it was about $900.

        2 votes
      3. snake_case
        Link Parent
        Jeez new cars are expensive to repair, thats insane, I did my starter in my drive way for like $80 last year it was nothing. I could probably replace my entire motor for $800 thats outrageous!

        Jeez new cars are expensive to repair, thats insane, I did my starter in my drive way for like $80 last year it was nothing. I could probably replace my entire motor for $800 thats outrageous!

        1 vote
    3. [2]
      Mullin
      Link Parent
      It doesn't eliminate the starter motor, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the starter motor is the non-traction motor component of the E-CVT I've got a Ford C-Max and it's got an identical...

      It doesn't eliminate the starter motor, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the starter motor is the non-traction motor component of the E-CVT

      I've got a Ford C-Max and it's got an identical E-CVT hybrid setup as the Toyotas

      1. redwall_hp
        Link Parent
        It briefly flashed up on screen in the video, IIRC. The Hybrid Synergy Drive does not have a small accessory motor to crank it, like is present in most vehicles. One of the two motor-generators...

        It briefly flashed up on screen in the video, IIRC. The Hybrid Synergy Drive does not have a small accessory motor to crank it, like is present in most vehicles. One of the two motor-generators attached to the differential (MG1) is used to start the engine. It's a motor used to start the engine, but it's a much beefier motor than a traditional starter motor, because its primary function is generation.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

        1 vote
  2. [6]
    hobbes64
    Link
    One thing I like about his videos is how he conveys that engineers think about things differently. When he talked about the difference between regular (friction) brakes and regenerative brakes, he...

    One thing I like about his videos is how he conveys that engineers think about things differently. When he talked about the difference between regular (friction) brakes and regenerative brakes, he said “friction brakes work by converting motion into heat, while regenerative brakes store that energy in a battery“. Of course the purpose of regular brakes is not to generate that heat, it’s just a wasted side effect. But it’s interesting to think about things that way.
    I also liked the sidebar about diesel-electric trains and why they use electric motors for the drive and how efficient trains are because of the wheels and avoidance of wind resistance.

    I got a hybrid last year and I knew basically what it was doing but I hadn’t thought as much about how carefully it manages the battery level and how integrated the electric motors are with the gas engine.

    17 votes
    1. [5]
      magico13
      Link Parent
      I have an EV and recently got something that lets me see the exact power usage and regen amount, and when stopping I can generate over 70kW of power at times. If that was friction brakes, it'd be...

      I have an EV and recently got something that lets me see the exact power usage and regen amount, and when stopping I can generate over 70kW of power at times. If that was friction brakes, it'd be the same amount of heat as 40 space heaters on full blast. Not for very long thankfully (unless going down a mountain) but that's just a crazy amount of power to dissipate and just throw away.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        DeaconBlue
        Link Parent
        The number of trucks with glowing red metal at the bottom of mountains would confirm this. Terrifying to see every single time.

        Not for very long thankfully (unless going down a mountain)

        The number of trucks with glowing red metal at the bottom of mountains would confirm this. Terrifying to see every single time.

        7 votes
        1. turmacar
          Link Parent
          There's a story, possibly apocryphal, about one of the old electrified train routes out of Chicago making more electricity than it used in one direction. I know Rio Tinto has some all-electric...

          There's a story, possibly apocryphal, about one of the old electrified train routes out of Chicago making more electricity than it used in one direction. I know Rio Tinto has some all-electric dump trucks that net generate electricity because they're hauling ore down from a mountain and are significantly lighter traveling back up.

          There's a lot of weird cool stuff that fully electrifying vehicle fleets would let us do that we kind of sidestepped because oil was so cheap/plentiful/transportable and batteries sucked comparatively for so long.

          7 votes
        2. redwall_hp
          Link Parent
          Also relevant, because I visited Pike's Peak recently: the park rangers have a checkpoint on the way down, where they temperature-check people's brakes and have them stop if they're at risk of...

          Also relevant, because I visited Pike's Peak recently: the park rangers have a checkpoint on the way down, where they temperature-check people's brakes and have them stop if they're at risk of failing. (You can also collect a lot of energy with regenerative braking.)

          I took the train up, rather than driving, but I thought that was interesting.

          6 votes
      2. balooga
        Link Parent
        Completely crazy passing thought I just had, but how much power could you get from regenerative brakes on a diesel locomotive? I know modern freight trains can be insanely long and very hard to...

        Completely crazy passing thought I just had, but how much power could you get from regenerative brakes on a diesel locomotive? I know modern freight trains can be insanely long and very hard to stop, and I bet all that energy is being converted to heat too. Imagine if the rail lines were rigged to capture that and share it with the power grid, or something.

        2 votes
  3. BeardyHat
    Link
    This is a neat video. I'm a bit of a car nut and I've always kind of understood how Hybrids function, but to see it in action is absolutely fascinating and helped illuminate some things I was...

    This is a neat video. I'm a bit of a car nut and I've always kind of understood how Hybrids function, but to see it in action is absolutely fascinating and helped illuminate some things I was unaware of--I knew about regenerative braking and assumed I knew how it worked, turns out, I didn't. I love the fact that Hybrids are mechanically more simple than a conventional ICE car, another thing I assumed the opposite. Boy it would be awesome not to have to deal with transmission and alternator issues anymore.

    On another note, I'd love a Sienna to replace my current van, especially a hybrid, but the fact that the second row isn't easily removable takes it off the table completely for me, which is unfortunate.

    8 votes