Interesting (and very timely for me) video about hybrid misconceptions, with an explanation of how the Atkinson Cycle and Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive works. Some of my takeaways: One interesting...
Interesting (and very timely for me) video about hybrid misconceptions, with an explanation of how the Atkinson Cycle and Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive works.
Some of my takeaways:
One interesting insight is that hybrids are not trying to be "EVs with a generator." It's more like the principle of a turbocharger in a four-banger: take the more efficient (but less powerful) Atkinson Cycle engine and give it a boost to compensate. Hybrids actively avoid using the engine as a glorified generator. The goal is to boost up to cruising speed, where less power is necessary. Much of the fuel savings come from the more efficient engine, and not just what's basically idle-stop behavior (which many cars have now, with not nearly the economy benefit).
The Hybrid Synergy Drive is remarkably simple, and indeed removes many literal moving parts from the car. I had no idea it was basically just doing silly (smart) things with a differential. It even eliminates the starter motor.
I haven’t watched yet but Definitely explains some stuff to me! My girlfriend recently got a hybrid Camry and I was amazed at how efficient it is on the highway compared to on local, short drives.
I haven’t watched yet but
The goal is to boost up to cruising speed, where less power is necessary. Much of the fuel savings come from the more efficient engine, and not just what's basically idle-stop behavior
Definitely explains some stuff to me! My girlfriend recently got a hybrid Camry and I was amazed at how efficient it is on the highway compared to on local, short drives.
I also have a recent Camry and I’m impressed that it gets just about 50 mpg without much effort and I can sometimes get over 60 if I try hard and don’t worry about how other drivers don’t like it...
I also have a recent Camry and I’m impressed that it gets just about 50 mpg without much effort and I can sometimes get over 60 if I try hard and don’t worry about how other drivers don’t like it when I barely accelerate.
This bothers me; my SO has a 2017 hybrid Camry which I had to borrow for a couple weeks while my 2019 manual Civic Si was in the shop... My Civic typically gets just under 40 mpg as I do a lot of...
This bothers me; my SO has a 2017 hybrid Camry which I had to borrow for a couple weeks while my 2019 manual Civic Si was in the shop...
My Civic typically gets just under 40 mpg as I do a lot of freeway commuting, but I still hit a lot of rush hour on my drive home. I know how to drive conservatively (part of why a sporty car still gets such awesome gas mileage considering), and attempted to duplicate this on the Camry, but I could barely keep it above 35 mpg.
I suspect there is something wrong with the car, since I thought I'd easily ramp it up to at least above 40 mpg.
What was the weather like the weeks you borrowed the car? I got a Prius in October, and it got low 40s mpg all winter. Popped up to high 50s as soon as the temps were consistently above freezing....
What was the weather like the weeks you borrowed the car? I got a Prius in October, and it got low 40s mpg all winter. Popped up to high 50s as soon as the temps were consistently above freezing.
Also, I believe tuning details on the hybrids make optimal driving styles for hybrid car fuel efficiency different than it is for cars with only ICE engines. Your expertise with the Civic might have been working against you with the Camry.
It ranged from 40s to 60s actually. I know my gasshole gets about 3-5 mpg less when it's colder, like single digits to the 30s, which was still better than the Camry. Additionally, the first week...
It ranged from 40s to 60s actually. I know my gasshole gets about 3-5 mpg less when it's colder, like single digits to the 30s, which was still better than the Camry. Additionally, the first week was rather warm (50s-60s), and I noticed I had the wind at my back the first three days where it managed a whopping 37 mpg - the highest I got it.
On the flip side, our hybrid has refused to start twice because the start-up battery was low. Had to call a technician and get it replaced. Apparently you have to regularly drive drives over 30min...
On the flip side, our hybrid has refused to start twice because the start-up battery was low. Had to call a technician and get it replaced.
Apparently you have to regularly drive drives over 30min once a week to keep it happy, which we don’t do consistently.. It’s a PITA.
There are plenty of powerbanks on the market that give more than sufficient juice to jump start the car. Just look for battery car boosters - it will not take all the pain away, but certainly the...
There are plenty of powerbanks on the market that give more than sufficient juice to jump start the car. Just look for battery car boosters - it will not take all the pain away, but certainly the ITA part :)
By the way, I took one that also can inflate tires, so the powerbank gets regularly use out of that - I'm inflating all bike tires every month now with a smile. And I also learned that for a hybrid car, you really don't need that much juice at all. I took some margin: the specs are 20.000 mAh, 2750A, 60Wh, and I notice hardly any battery drain when jump starting the car. So you can take the specs as a generous overdimensioning.
You could fit a battery maintainer (brand names: Battery Tender, others) which is a low charge rate charger for your start battery. They are inexpensive, have quick disconnect cords that you could...
You could fit a battery maintainer (brand names: Battery Tender, others) which is a low charge rate charger for your start battery. They are inexpensive, have quick disconnect cords that you could just plug in once a week overnight (or longer, won't hurt) and keep the battery healthy.
I wonder if hybrids are still using NiCd batteries? That was one of the decisions I always thought was kind of silly because they wear down so quickly in comparison to lithium.
I wonder if hybrids are still using NiCd batteries? That was one of the decisions I always thought was kind of silly because they wear down so quickly in comparison to lithium.
I had my gen 1 Prius for 13 years before it was totaled. I had to replace the engine battery, but never had any issues with the hybrid batteries. My only complaint about that car was that the...
I had my gen 1 Prius for 13 years before it was totaled. I had to replace the engine battery, but never had any issues with the hybrid batteries. My only complaint about that car was that the stock tires were stupid - low profile tires wear out quickly and were a terrible choice in a place where it would regularly rain so hard everyone pulled over because it was impossible to see. I slid all over the freeway with those tires when it rained.
I have a random question about the Prius related indirectly to the tires. They are narrow relative to many other cars. I assume that this is to reduce rolling resistance and improve mileage. But...
I have a random question about the Prius related indirectly to the tires. They are narrow relative to many other cars. I assume that this is to reduce rolling resistance and improve mileage. But the rated mpg of the Prius is very similar to the Camry which is bigger and heavier and bigger tires. I’m not sure what’s going on. Maybe the city mileage is better on the Prius but I see about 50 on the Camry.
I only really know about the Prius I had, which was a 2001. Yes, the stock tires were thinner to cut down on road resistance, there’s also a minor difference in wind resistance. I lost maybe 1 mpg...
I only really know about the Prius I had, which was a 2001. Yes, the stock tires were thinner to cut down on road resistance, there’s also a minor difference in wind resistance. I lost maybe 1 mpg on average when I switched to regular all season tires.
I’m not an engineer or car expert, but I’d guess the highway difference is a combination of the tires, the car weight, and possibly wind resistance. You wouldn’t think wind resistance mattered much, but that front end wedge shape meant that I never once in 13 years had a rock crack that windshield. Several times I actually watched a rock come towards that windshield and then slip over the car entirely, I’ve never seen that on another car.
I think the wind resistance on the Camry is very low and this is related to it having better mileage than the smaller Corolla. I believe part of the low wind resistance is a result of the car...
I think the wind resistance on the Camry is very low and this is related to it having better mileage than the smaller Corolla. I believe part of the low wind resistance is a result of the car being extremely low, which is a problem when entering a driveway because you have to enter at an angle to keep from scraping the bottom of the front fender.
Jeez new cars are expensive to repair, thats insane, I did my starter in my drive way for like $80 last year it was nothing. I could probably replace my entire motor for $800 thats outrageous!
Jeez new cars are expensive to repair, thats insane, I did my starter in my drive way for like $80 last year it was nothing. I could probably replace my entire motor for $800 thats outrageous!
Good luck getting full trade-in value if you do your own maintenance. I've been "penalized" for not having records of all maintenance done on a car I was trading in to a dealer when purchasing...
Good luck getting full trade-in value if you do your own maintenance. I've been "penalized" for not having records of all maintenance done on a car I was trading in to a dealer when purchasing another. I basically stopped doing my own car maintenance at that point.
Trade in value lol, nah this car is dying with me. Its 26 years old. Ive never had a car payment. I just buy them very very used and fix them cause I have a really good mechanic. Never owned a car...
Trade in value lol, nah this car is dying with me. Its 26 years old.
Ive never had a car payment. I just buy them very very used and fix them cause I have a really good mechanic. Never owned a car that was worth more than like 5k
I had to learn how to live like this when I was very poor and when I finally made enough money to afford a nice car I started working from home and didn’t need one. So I just keep driving my beater 2x a week it’ll last forever at that rate. Everything works on it, ac is great, power windows, still have the key fob. Its funny cause I put like 100k miles on it in the first five years driving across town for work and then last year I prob put like 5k miles on it tops haha
Hahaha less likely to be stolen is hilarious cause 20 years ago it was one of the most broken into cars! 2000 Honda Civic I do love my beater. When shes done I’ll get another. It’ll always be...
Hahaha less likely to be stolen is hilarious cause 20 years ago it was one of the most broken into cars! 2000 Honda Civic
I do love my beater. When shes done I’ll get another. It’ll always be cheaper to fix a 2000s car than it will be to get a new car. No idea what I’m gonna do 20 years from now when all my options are 2020s cars with broken electronics.
Hmm I had a 2000 Accord that had an estimate of $6,000 to fix. In a way that's cheaper than buying a newer car, but the expensive fixes tend to get more frequent as time goes on. I understand that...
Hmm I had a 2000 Accord that had an estimate of $6,000 to fix. In a way that's cheaper than buying a newer car, but the expensive fixes tend to get more frequent as time goes on. I understand that I could have shopped around to get a better price, or learned to fix it myself, but my time is not unlimited for this kind of thing.
Yeah, there are people who still drive around 40 year old cars today. An 80s car isn’t all that different from mine. Go back another decade though and you get into carburetors, and those are kind...
Yeah, there are people who still drive around 40 year old cars today. An 80s car isn’t all that different from mine.
Go back another decade though and you get into carburetors, and those are kind of a pita. Injection was def an upgrade. Off the top of my head I don’t think 2020s cars have anything like that which actually makes them easier to work on.
It doesn't eliminate the starter motor, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the starter motor is the non-traction motor component of the E-CVT I've got a Ford C-Max and it's got an identical...
It doesn't eliminate the starter motor, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the starter motor is the non-traction motor component of the E-CVT
I've got a Ford C-Max and it's got an identical E-CVT hybrid setup as the Toyotas
It briefly flashed up on screen in the video, IIRC. The Hybrid Synergy Drive does not have a small accessory motor to crank it, like is present in most vehicles. One of the two motor-generators...
It briefly flashed up on screen in the video, IIRC. The Hybrid Synergy Drive does not have a small accessory motor to crank it, like is present in most vehicles. One of the two motor-generators attached to the differential (MG1) is used to start the engine. It's a motor used to start the engine, but it's a much beefier motor than a traditional starter motor, because its primary function is generation.
One thing I like about his videos is how he conveys that engineers think about things differently. When he talked about the difference between regular (friction) brakes and regenerative brakes, he...
One thing I like about his videos is how he conveys that engineers think about things differently. When he talked about the difference between regular (friction) brakes and regenerative brakes, he said “friction brakes work by converting motion into heat, while regenerative brakes store that energy in a battery“. Of course the purpose of regular brakes is not to generate that heat, it’s just a wasted side effect. But it’s interesting to think about things that way.
I also liked the sidebar about diesel-electric trains and why they use electric motors for the drive and how efficient trains are because of the wheels and avoidance of wind resistance.
I got a hybrid last year and I knew basically what it was doing but I hadn’t thought as much about how carefully it manages the battery level and how integrated the electric motors are with the gas engine.
I have an EV and recently got something that lets me see the exact power usage and regen amount, and when stopping I can generate over 70kW of power at times. If that was friction brakes, it'd be...
I have an EV and recently got something that lets me see the exact power usage and regen amount, and when stopping I can generate over 70kW of power at times. If that was friction brakes, it'd be the same amount of heat as 40 space heaters on full blast. Not for very long thankfully (unless going down a mountain) but that's just a crazy amount of power to dissipate and just throw away.
There's a story, possibly apocryphal, about one of the old electrified train routes out of Chicago making more electricity than it used in one direction. I know Rio Tinto has some all-electric...
There's a story, possibly apocryphal, about one of the old electrified train routes out of Chicago making more electricity than it used in one direction. I know Rio Tinto has some all-electric dump trucks that net generate electricity because they're hauling ore down from a mountain and are significantly lighter traveling back up.
There's a lot of weird cool stuff that fully electrifying vehicle fleets would let us do that we kind of sidestepped because oil was so cheap/plentiful/transportable and batteries sucked comparatively for so long.
A mine in Switzerland replaced one of their large dump trucks with an EV version. It never has to be plugged in....
A mine in Switzerland replaced one of their large dump trucks with an EV version. It never has to be plugged in.
The dump truck, at 45 tons, ascends the 13-percent grade and takes on 65 tons of ore. With more than double the weight going back down the hill, the beast's regenerative braking system recaptures more than enough energy to refill the charge the eDumper used going up.
Also relevant, because I visited Pike's Peak recently: the park rangers have a checkpoint on the way down, where they temperature-check people's brakes and have them stop if they're at risk of...
Also relevant, because I visited Pike's Peak recently: the park rangers have a checkpoint on the way down, where they temperature-check people's brakes and have them stop if they're at risk of failing. (You can also collect a lot of energy with regenerative braking.)
I took the train up, rather than driving, but I thought that was interesting.
Completely crazy passing thought I just had, but how much power could you get from regenerative brakes on a diesel locomotive? I know modern freight trains can be insanely long and very hard to...
Completely crazy passing thought I just had, but how much power could you get from regenerative brakes on a diesel locomotive? I know modern freight trains can be insanely long and very hard to stop, and I bet all that energy is being converted to heat too. Imagine if the rail lines were rigged to capture that and share it with the power grid, or something.
IIRC, electric trains powered by overhead wires/3rd rail already do this to cut down on the energy usage (these tracks are common in europe). One train braking contributes power to the rail...
IIRC, electric trains powered by overhead wires/3rd rail already do this to cut down on the energy usage (these tracks are common in europe). One train braking contributes power to the rail network that can be used to by any other train currently using power on the network.
Just piping in briefly, but the Vancouver trolleybuses are actual busses -- not a rail in sight! Iirc they're more common in places with steep grades, since they maintain traction much better, and...
Just piping in briefly, but the Vancouver trolleybuses are actual busses -- not a rail in sight! Iirc they're more common in places with steep grades, since they maintain traction much better, and as a cyclist it's great not to have to dodge another road hazard (slick rails in the rain) -- the few parts of the city roads with rails in them are death traps during the rainy season.
I never understood why trolleybuses aren't more commonplace. They are much more flexible than trams in many ways. Recently I have been seeing variants that also have a big battery. Allowing them...
I never understood why trolleybuses aren't more commonplace. They are much more flexible than trams in many ways. Recently I have been seeing variants that also have a big battery. Allowing them to go without the overhead wire for significant parts of the route. Then when there is wire they get charged up again without having to sit around for a while.
I think there's some objection to the overhead wires being unsightly? Plus, rarely, someone will try to cut the catenary lines down for scrap, but I haven't heard of that happening for years. Re....
I think there's some objection to the overhead wires being unsightly? Plus, rarely, someone will try to cut the catenary lines down for scrap, but I haven't heard of that happening for years.
Re. The hybrid battery busses, there are actually some on the way! I believe the next fleet refresh will use them.
Overhead wired being unsightly has high nimby vibes. But I also meant more compared to trams where there will also be overhead wires and rails to consider. Given that they are not more commonplace...
Overhead wired being unsightly has high nimby vibes. But I also meant more compared to trams where there will also be overhead wires and rails to consider.
Given that they are not more commonplace (and actually used to be found in more cities) there probably is something more going on. Though the only thing I know had been a consideration for one city I know is the comparison to diesel buses. Where the later are cheaper to run as you need less infrastructure. But that again doesn't really hold up when comparing them to trams.
Including maintenance, downtime, and fuel consumption, diesel were actually more expensive to run last I checked. Electricity is relatively cheap in Vancouver, and diesel... well, diesel is not....
Including maintenance, downtime, and fuel consumption, diesel were actually more expensive to run last I checked. Electricity is relatively cheap in Vancouver, and diesel... well, diesel is not. Especially this year.
Upfront costs are higher, and training drivers takes an extra day or two, but neither is a great reason to skip having them - especially considering the lack of engine noise. They do best with dense areas, with lots of start and stop, and a decent number of hills though, which doesn't fit the profile of everywhere one might want to use them
To be clear, I am not asking it in a modern context but historically. I am not talking from a Vancouver context, I have heard it in a historical context for a local city here. From what I hear...
To be clear, I am not asking it in a modern context but historically. I am not talking from a Vancouver context, I have heard it in a historical context for a local city here.
From what I hear electricity in Canada is outright cheap compared to many other parts of the world and historically diesel might have been more competitive anyway.
And as I said, my initial question is more in comparison to trams anyway :)
Aah, gotcha! I mean hypothetically steel wheeled vehicles are more energy efficient in many situations. But my guess has been that it's probably because busses are seen as inferior to trains,...
Aah, gotcha! I mean hypothetically steel wheeled vehicles are more energy efficient in many situations. But my guess has been that it's probably because busses are seen as inferior to trains, socially, even if they're near identical in throughput and accessibility (with BRT). People can just develop weird notions sometimes and cling to them.
Well, yes (i've watch the video too you know), but if you build an overhead wire to collect the regenerative breaking energy, why use an onboard diesel generator at all? Just use the wire...
Well, yes (i've watch the video too you know), but if you build an overhead wire to collect the regenerative breaking energy, why use an onboard diesel generator at all? Just use the wire...
Fair enough, I could have been more clear in what I tried to imply. Large parts of rail infrastructure isn't electrified with overhead wires. For those lines it might make sense to have basically...
Fair enough, I could have been more clear in what I tried to imply. Large parts of rail infrastructure isn't electrified with overhead wires. For those lines it might make sense to have basically hybrid locomotives.
All-electric trains are a thing, sure. For some routes they are the best option. For routes that extends significantly beyond where wire has been built, diesel engines fill that gap.
All-electric trains are a thing, sure. For some routes they are the best option. For routes that extends significantly beyond where wire has been built, diesel engines fill that gap.
This is a neat video. I'm a bit of a car nut and I've always kind of understood how Hybrids function, but to see it in action is absolutely fascinating and helped illuminate some things I was...
This is a neat video. I'm a bit of a car nut and I've always kind of understood how Hybrids function, but to see it in action is absolutely fascinating and helped illuminate some things I was unaware of--I knew about regenerative braking and assumed I knew how it worked, turns out, I didn't. I love the fact that Hybrids are mechanically more simple than a conventional ICE car, another thing I assumed the opposite. Boy it would be awesome not to have to deal with transmission and alternator issues anymore.
On another note, I'd love a Sienna to replace my current van, especially a hybrid, but the fact that the second row isn't easily removable takes it off the table completely for me, which is unfortunate.
Oh those also exist. They're called Pure (series) range extenders. So while the word hybrid is just a wide term, how they achieve that hybrid status can be different from model to model. For...
Oh those also exist. They're called Pure (series) range extenders. So while the word hybrid is just a wide term, how they achieve that hybrid status can be different from model to model. For instance, BYD being an electric car maker, their only hybrid alternative is what they call "DM-i". Which is essentially an electric car with smaller battery and an ICE engine to generate power. Since they are mainly an electric car maker, for them, it makes sense to use same platform as their hybrid alternatives
So what series range extender does is just act, as a glorified generator to charge the car. Since the engine is purpose built to be running at it's ideal range, it can keep targeting it's most efficient RPM and hang the revs at that given point, providing that efficiency to produce it's energy. But, their ICE engines will never run the wheels directly. Only through the conversion to electric, which then EV motors will move the car. In terms of hybrids, we have lots of different technologies. At the core they sound similar but they all have their nuances.
Interesting (and very timely for me) video about hybrid misconceptions, with an explanation of how the Atkinson Cycle and Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive works.
Some of my takeaways:
One interesting insight is that hybrids are not trying to be "EVs with a generator." It's more like the principle of a turbocharger in a four-banger: take the more efficient (but less powerful) Atkinson Cycle engine and give it a boost to compensate. Hybrids actively avoid using the engine as a glorified generator. The goal is to boost up to cruising speed, where less power is necessary. Much of the fuel savings come from the more efficient engine, and not just what's basically idle-stop behavior (which many cars have now, with not nearly the economy benefit).
The Hybrid Synergy Drive is remarkably simple, and indeed removes many literal moving parts from the car. I had no idea it was basically just doing silly (smart) things with a differential. It even eliminates the starter motor.
I haven’t watched yet but
Definitely explains some stuff to me! My girlfriend recently got a hybrid Camry and I was amazed at how efficient it is on the highway compared to on local, short drives.
I also have a recent Camry and I’m impressed that it gets just about 50 mpg without much effort and I can sometimes get over 60 if I try hard and don’t worry about how other drivers don’t like it when I barely accelerate.
This bothers me; my SO has a 2017 hybrid Camry which I had to borrow for a couple weeks while my 2019 manual Civic Si was in the shop...
My Civic typically gets just under 40 mpg as I do a lot of freeway commuting, but I still hit a lot of rush hour on my drive home. I know how to drive conservatively (part of why a sporty car still gets such awesome gas mileage considering), and attempted to duplicate this on the Camry, but I could barely keep it above 35 mpg.
I suspect there is something wrong with the car, since I thought I'd easily ramp it up to at least above 40 mpg.
What was the weather like the weeks you borrowed the car? I got a Prius in October, and it got low 40s mpg all winter. Popped up to high 50s as soon as the temps were consistently above freezing.
Also, I believe tuning details on the hybrids make optimal driving styles for hybrid car fuel efficiency different than it is for cars with only ICE engines. Your expertise with the Civic might have been working against you with the Camry.
It ranged from 40s to 60s actually. I know my gasshole gets about 3-5 mpg less when it's colder, like single digits to the 30s, which was still better than the Camry. Additionally, the first week was rather warm (50s-60s), and I noticed I had the wind at my back the first three days where it managed a whopping 37 mpg - the highest I got it.
I just had to replace my starter motor for like $800 :(
Should’ve bought a hybrid I guess
On the flip side, our hybrid has refused to start twice because the start-up battery was low. Had to call a technician and get it replaced.
Apparently you have to regularly drive drives over 30min once a week to keep it happy, which we don’t do consistently.. It’s a PITA.
There are plenty of powerbanks on the market that give more than sufficient juice to jump start the car. Just look for battery car boosters - it will not take all the pain away, but certainly the ITA part :)
By the way, I took one that also can inflate tires, so the powerbank gets regularly use out of that - I'm inflating all bike tires every month now with a smile. And I also learned that for a hybrid car, you really don't need that much juice at all. I took some margin: the specs are 20.000 mAh, 2750A, 60Wh, and I notice hardly any battery drain when jump starting the car. So you can take the specs as a generous overdimensioning.
You could fit a battery maintainer (brand names: Battery Tender, others) which is a low charge rate charger for your start battery. They are inexpensive, have quick disconnect cords that you could just plug in once a week overnight (or longer, won't hurt) and keep the battery healthy.
I wonder if hybrids are still using NiCd batteries? That was one of the decisions I always thought was kind of silly because they wear down so quickly in comparison to lithium.
The one I'm looking at (2026 Civic) is definitely Li-Ion. The newer Prius models with non-potato performance (2024+) also have Li-Ion.
I had my gen 1 Prius for 13 years before it was totaled. I had to replace the engine battery, but never had any issues with the hybrid batteries. My only complaint about that car was that the stock tires were stupid - low profile tires wear out quickly and were a terrible choice in a place where it would regularly rain so hard everyone pulled over because it was impossible to see. I slid all over the freeway with those tires when it rained.
I have a random question about the Prius related indirectly to the tires. They are narrow relative to many other cars. I assume that this is to reduce rolling resistance and improve mileage. But the rated mpg of the Prius is very similar to the Camry which is bigger and heavier and bigger tires. I’m not sure what’s going on. Maybe the city mileage is better on the Prius but I see about 50 on the Camry.
I only really know about the Prius I had, which was a 2001. Yes, the stock tires were thinner to cut down on road resistance, there’s also a minor difference in wind resistance. I lost maybe 1 mpg on average when I switched to regular all season tires.
It looks like the current Camry and Prius are really similar in efficiency. Camry mpg is 52 / 49 / 51, Prius is 53 / 54 / 54 (city/highway/combined). You’re right about city driving, but the highway mileage is much further apart.
I’m not an engineer or car expert, but I’d guess the highway difference is a combination of the tires, the car weight, and possibly wind resistance. You wouldn’t think wind resistance mattered much, but that front end wedge shape meant that I never once in 13 years had a rock crack that windshield. Several times I actually watched a rock come towards that windshield and then slip over the car entirely, I’ve never seen that on another car.
I think the wind resistance on the Camry is very low and this is related to it having better mileage than the smaller Corolla. I believe part of the low wind resistance is a result of the car being extremely low, which is a problem when entering a driveway because you have to enter at an angle to keep from scraping the bottom of the front fender.
No alternators on hybrids, either. I had to replace one of those on a car a few months ago too, and it was about $900.
Jeez new cars are expensive to repair, thats insane, I did my starter in my drive way for like $80 last year it was nothing. I could probably replace my entire motor for $800 thats outrageous!
Good luck getting full trade-in value if you do your own maintenance. I've been "penalized" for not having records of all maintenance done on a car I was trading in to a dealer when purchasing another. I basically stopped doing my own car maintenance at that point.
Trade in value lol, nah this car is dying with me. Its 26 years old.
Ive never had a car payment. I just buy them very very used and fix them cause I have a really good mechanic. Never owned a car that was worth more than like 5k
I had to learn how to live like this when I was very poor and when I finally made enough money to afford a nice car I started working from home and didn’t need one. So I just keep driving my beater 2x a week it’ll last forever at that rate. Everything works on it, ac is great, power windows, still have the key fob. Its funny cause I put like 100k miles on it in the first five years driving across town for work and then last year I prob put like 5k miles on it tops haha
Older cars are great! Insurance costs less, you don’t freak out if you get a scratch, and they’re far less likely to be stolen.
Hahaha less likely to be stolen is hilarious cause 20 years ago it was one of the most broken into cars! 2000 Honda Civic
I do love my beater. When shes done I’ll get another. It’ll always be cheaper to fix a 2000s car than it will be to get a new car. No idea what I’m gonna do 20 years from now when all my options are 2020s cars with broken electronics.
Hmm I had a 2000 Accord that had an estimate of $6,000 to fix. In a way that's cheaper than buying a newer car, but the expensive fixes tend to get more frequent as time goes on. I understand that I could have shopped around to get a better price, or learned to fix it myself, but my time is not unlimited for this kind of thing.
Thats crazy what was broken the whole entire engine?
Probably get a 40 year old car. Or a Beetle, I never see those anymore.
Yeah, there are people who still drive around 40 year old cars today. An 80s car isn’t all that different from mine.
Go back another decade though and you get into carburetors, and those are kind of a pita. Injection was def an upgrade. Off the top of my head I don’t think 2020s cars have anything like that which actually makes them easier to work on.
It doesn't eliminate the starter motor, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the starter motor is the non-traction motor component of the E-CVT
I've got a Ford C-Max and it's got an identical E-CVT hybrid setup as the Toyotas
It briefly flashed up on screen in the video, IIRC. The Hybrid Synergy Drive does not have a small accessory motor to crank it, like is present in most vehicles. One of the two motor-generators attached to the differential (MG1) is used to start the engine. It's a motor used to start the engine, but it's a much beefier motor than a traditional starter motor, because its primary function is generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive
One thing I like about his videos is how he conveys that engineers think about things differently. When he talked about the difference between regular (friction) brakes and regenerative brakes, he said “friction brakes work by converting motion into heat, while regenerative brakes store that energy in a battery“. Of course the purpose of regular brakes is not to generate that heat, it’s just a wasted side effect. But it’s interesting to think about things that way.
I also liked the sidebar about diesel-electric trains and why they use electric motors for the drive and how efficient trains are because of the wheels and avoidance of wind resistance.
I got a hybrid last year and I knew basically what it was doing but I hadn’t thought as much about how carefully it manages the battery level and how integrated the electric motors are with the gas engine.
I have an EV and recently got something that lets me see the exact power usage and regen amount, and when stopping I can generate over 70kW of power at times. If that was friction brakes, it'd be the same amount of heat as 40 space heaters on full blast. Not for very long thankfully (unless going down a mountain) but that's just a crazy amount of power to dissipate and just throw away.
The number of trucks with glowing red metal at the bottom of mountains would confirm this. Terrifying to see every single time.
There's a story, possibly apocryphal, about one of the old electrified train routes out of Chicago making more electricity than it used in one direction. I know Rio Tinto has some all-electric dump trucks that net generate electricity because they're hauling ore down from a mountain and are significantly lighter traveling back up.
There's a lot of weird cool stuff that fully electrifying vehicle fleets would let us do that we kind of sidestepped because oil was so cheap/plentiful/transportable and batteries sucked comparatively for so long.
A mine in Switzerland replaced one of their large dump trucks with an EV version. It never has to be plugged in.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124478_world-s-largest-ev-never-has-to-be-recharged
Also relevant, because I visited Pike's Peak recently: the park rangers have a checkpoint on the way down, where they temperature-check people's brakes and have them stop if they're at risk of failing. (You can also collect a lot of energy with regenerative braking.)
I took the train up, rather than driving, but I thought that was interesting.
Completely crazy passing thought I just had, but how much power could you get from regenerative brakes on a diesel locomotive? I know modern freight trains can be insanely long and very hard to stop, and I bet all that energy is being converted to heat too. Imagine if the rail lines were rigged to capture that and share it with the power grid, or something.
IIRC, electric trains powered by overhead wires/3rd rail already do this to cut down on the energy usage (these tracks are common in europe). One train braking contributes power to the rail network that can be used to by any other train currently using power on the network.
The trolley busses in Vancouver do this as well, with the majority of the braking force coming from sending current back up through the wires
IMHO, trolleys/trams are just funni smal-gauge electric trains, so that tracks.
Just piping in briefly, but the Vancouver trolleybuses are actual busses -- not a rail in sight! Iirc they're more common in places with steep grades, since they maintain traction much better, and as a cyclist it's great not to have to dodge another road hazard (slick rails in the rain) -- the few parts of the city roads with rails in them are death traps during the rainy season.
I never understood why trolleybuses aren't more commonplace. They are much more flexible than trams in many ways. Recently I have been seeing variants that also have a big battery. Allowing them to go without the overhead wire for significant parts of the route. Then when there is wire they get charged up again without having to sit around for a while.
I think there's some objection to the overhead wires being unsightly? Plus, rarely, someone will try to cut the catenary lines down for scrap, but I haven't heard of that happening for years.
Re. The hybrid battery busses, there are actually some on the way! I believe the next fleet refresh will use them.
Relevant link about trolley-bus
I agree, trolley bus are super cool and I'd live to see more of them!
Overhead wired being unsightly has high nimby vibes. But I also meant more compared to trams where there will also be overhead wires and rails to consider.
Given that they are not more commonplace (and actually used to be found in more cities) there probably is something more going on. Though the only thing I know had been a consideration for one city I know is the comparison to diesel buses. Where the later are cheaper to run as you need less infrastructure. But that again doesn't really hold up when comparing them to trams.
Including maintenance, downtime, and fuel consumption, diesel were actually more expensive to run last I checked. Electricity is relatively cheap in Vancouver, and diesel... well, diesel is not. Especially this year.
Upfront costs are higher, and training drivers takes an extra day or two, but neither is a great reason to skip having them - especially considering the lack of engine noise. They do best with dense areas, with lots of start and stop, and a decent number of hills though, which doesn't fit the profile of everywhere one might want to use them
To be clear, I am not asking it in a modern context but historically. I am not talking from a Vancouver context, I have heard it in a historical context for a local city here.
From what I hear electricity in Canada is outright cheap compared to many other parts of the world and historically diesel might have been more competitive anyway.
And as I said, my initial question is more in comparison to trams anyway :)
Aah, gotcha! I mean hypothetically steel wheeled vehicles are more energy efficient in many situations. But my guess has been that it's probably because busses are seen as inferior to trains, socially, even if they're near identical in throughput and accessibility (with BRT). People can just develop weird notions sometimes and cling to them.
If you have a catenary installed to send the regenerative breaks' energy, you might as well go full electric and ditch the diesel, right?
Most lines in the U.S., Canada, and Australia are unelectrified. The service frequency of freight trains in most spots doesn’t support it.
Diesel locomotives are already electric. The diesel engine acts as a generator.
Well, yes (i've watch the video too you know), but if you build an overhead wire to collect the regenerative breaking energy, why use an onboard diesel generator at all? Just use the wire...
Fair enough, I could have been more clear in what I tried to imply. Large parts of rail infrastructure isn't electrified with overhead wires. For those lines it might make sense to have basically hybrid locomotives.
All-electric trains are a thing, sure. For some routes they are the best option. For routes that extends significantly beyond where wire has been built, diesel engines fill that gap.
This is a neat video. I'm a bit of a car nut and I've always kind of understood how Hybrids function, but to see it in action is absolutely fascinating and helped illuminate some things I was unaware of--I knew about regenerative braking and assumed I knew how it worked, turns out, I didn't. I love the fact that Hybrids are mechanically more simple than a conventional ICE car, another thing I assumed the opposite. Boy it would be awesome not to have to deal with transmission and alternator issues anymore.
On another note, I'd love a Sienna to replace my current van, especially a hybrid, but the fact that the second row isn't easily removable takes it off the table completely for me, which is unfortunate.
Really interesting video, cleared up some confusion of my assumptions about it being an EV with a generator.
Oh those also exist. They're called Pure (series) range extenders. So while the word hybrid is just a wide term, how they achieve that hybrid status can be different from model to model. For instance, BYD being an electric car maker, their only hybrid alternative is what they call "DM-i". Which is essentially an electric car with smaller battery and an ICE engine to generate power. Since they are mainly an electric car maker, for them, it makes sense to use same platform as their hybrid alternatives
So what series range extender does is just act, as a glorified generator to charge the car. Since the engine is purpose built to be running at it's ideal range, it can keep targeting it's most efficient RPM and hang the revs at that given point, providing that efficiency to produce it's energy. But, their ICE engines will never run the wheels directly. Only through the conversion to electric, which then EV motors will move the car. In terms of hybrids, we have lots of different technologies. At the core they sound similar but they all have their nuances.