As one of the only, if not the only, person who saw this live here. I have to say this was a weird moment. When it initially happened it felt like a bit or a sketch. Chris Rock made a joke about...
As one of the only, if not the only, person who saw this live here. I have to say this was a weird moment. When it initially happened it felt like a bit or a sketch. Chris Rock made a joke about Jada Plinkett-Smith’s shaved head (Plinkett deals with alopecia), Smith goes on stage and Rock is laughing thinking Smith is gonna make a joke of some kind. Instead Smith slaps Rock in the face. Initially I thought it was a fake hit. I didn’t think they connected. The room at the Oscar’s in laughing, I laughed.
Rock still laughing, looking back clearly nervous laughter, goes “WOW, Will Smith just smacked the shit out of me.” We don’t hear this though as the broadcast gets muted throughout the duration of this. The longest time an awards broadcast has been muted. They cut to Smith yelling, now he looks PISSED and now we all get the sense that this wasn’t a bit. He says “get my wife’s name out your fucking mouth” TWICE. Rock apologizes and says “that was the greatest moment in television” and like a professional moves on to present Documentary Feature.
It was shocking. Nobody knew what was happening until tweets from reporters inside the Oscar’s confirm that this was not scripted and that the tone of the room had completely changed. I couldn’t believe it. Will Smith just smacked the shit out of Chris Rock on live television in front of millions of people across the world. AND as I follow the race I knew Smith was LOCKED to win the Oscar. Now, I couldn’t wait to see what he would say.
Reports come in that fellow actors come to support Smith with hugs. Denzel gives him a few words and so does his publicist. Bradley Copper gives him a hug. Once he wins the Oscar just a few minutes later he’s a puddle of tears talking about how he’s defending his family and wants to be a vessel a love. He also apologizes to the academy and says “please invite me next year.”
The rest of the show is weird. Everything feels off. People in the auditorium try to ignore it but there’s something weighing everything down. It all felt like a fever dream.
Will Smith ruined his persona. The nice guy image he had for the past few decades. My mom, once a huge fan, instantly turns on him. What was supposed to be what his entire career was leading up to, ended up the thing that’s going to ruin him forever.
He skips all the post-show press, the other three acting winners all pose together for photos (as is tradition that ALL acting winners do) but Smith is absent.
People are trying to turn this thing into a culture war thing. About a black man defending his wife and white people getting mad at that. FUCK that bullshit. What he did was wrong. You don’t slap people like that, you don’t rush a stage and assault someone just because you didn’t like what they said. You deal with that like an adult and not a kid in a playground. It has nothing to do with online culture wars, you do not hit people like that.
EDIT: I just realized that this was all preceded by Regina Hall making a joke about Jada cheating on Will.
EDIT 2: And Rebel Wilson made a joke about it at the BAFTAs after Smith won Lead Actor (Smith was not present).
EDIT 3: I specifically say it's weird to turn this into a culture war thing and yet people in the comments are doing so. Great stuff everyone. So dumb. This is what happens when you spend too much time on twitter.
Which opinions are "culture war", and which are not? I genuinely can't parse what you mean by this.
EDIT 3: I specifically say it's weird to turn this into a culture war thing and yet people in the comments are doing so. Great stuff everyone. So dumb. This is what happens when you spend too much time on twitter.
Which opinions are "culture war", and which are not? I genuinely can't parse what you mean by this.
I certainly wouldn’t have phrased it like that, but I think I can see where they’re coming from. I was expecting this thread to be totally uncontroversial: you don’t respond to words by hitting...
I certainly wouldn’t have phrased it like that, but I think I can see where they’re coming from. I was expecting this thread to be totally uncontroversial: you don’t respond to words by hitting people, Smith fucked up at a very high profile event, but ultimately no real harm done and it’ll all blow over.
But then I saw a post here saying that expressing what I considered to be an incredibly straightforward, almost incontrovertible view was actually coming from a place of privilege. Lots of posts talking about this as a nuanced, intersectional, complex issue. It feels genuinely surreal to me, and I say that as someone comfortable and relatively at home in spaces where that language and style of thinking is common.
I’m not even saying I think those posts are wrong: they’re so far outside my frame of reference on this specific issue that I can’t in good faith say that, because I genuinely don’t understand where they’re coming from - even having tried. I still think it’s a simple issue. I still think Will Smith fucked up, but didn’t do lasting harm and will get off with no more than some significant internet mockery, and there’s no more to it than that.
I don’t like terms like “culture war” because they tend to be divisive, but I feel more adrift in this conversation than I have in quite some time, and I can certainly understand how the term feels apt.
Interesting. I have seen a few comments like this, asserting that we have to pick one. I think we can have both - Will Smith should not have struck Chris Rock, and, it's interesting to talk about...
Interesting. I have seen a few comments like this, asserting that we have to pick one. I think we can have both - Will Smith should not have struck Chris Rock, and, it's interesting to talk about why he did. No?
Yeah, I think that’s fair - I won’t rehash a top level comment that seems to have since been deleted, but I (and evidently others) certainly understood it to be saying “pick one” when we didn’t...
Yeah, I think that’s fair - I won’t rehash a top level comment that seems to have since been deleted, but I (and evidently others) certainly understood it to be saying “pick one” when we didn’t even think there was anything to be picked! Rightly or wrongly the tone of the thread went in an accusatory direction from there - but I think you’re right that a redraw from the starting point of “we all agree on the simple bit, now let’s explore the nuance” would be a lot more on brand for this site.
Yes, you're entirely correct. I'm 100% in favor of strong criticism against comedians or any kind of performer, even though I'm generally more forgiving than most. Just don't climb the stage to...
Yes, you're entirely correct. I'm 100% in favor of strong criticism against comedians or any kind of performer, even though I'm generally more forgiving than most. Just don't climb the stage to slap them.
Maybe we're talking more about the slapping because that is the surprising bit, Chris Rock making mean and offensive jokes is just what you expect, and he was much harsher in the past.
I generally don't condone using physical violence as a response to verbal insults. That said, Chris Rock made a joke about a part of Jada Pinkett Smith's body that she has struggled with. Will...
I generally don't condone using physical violence as a response to verbal insults. That said, Chris Rock made a joke about a part of Jada Pinkett Smith's body that she has struggled with. Will Smith acted in her defense. Yes, he could have handled it differently, but I still applaud him for standing up to Chris Rock. Our society needs more men that stand up to other men for being assholes to women.
The Oscar's is a roast with acts in between. You're supposed to be uncomfortable, and going to the stage and slapping a comedian because you don't like what they said is in no way acceptable. This...
Exemplary
The Oscar's is a roast with acts in between. You're supposed to be uncomfortable, and going to the stage and slapping a comedian because you don't like what they said is in no way acceptable.
This only seems acceptable because of macho culture, according to which male adults are excused for resolving conflicts with physical aggression.
Disagree? Just reverse Chris Rock's gender and keep everything else the same. Put his words on Tina Fey or Wanda Sykes. Would this remain acceptable in your view? No, of course not, and with good reason. It is not acceptable in any way shape or form. That's assault. Period.
What? We as a society DO NOT need more people to act like this. Why on earth would this even be an afterthought. Standing up to Chris Rock by slapping him because of a joke. Can't you see how...
What? We as a society DO NOT need more people to act like this. Why on earth would this even be an afterthought. Standing up to Chris Rock by slapping him because of a joke. Can't you see how ridiculous that sounds...
I think it was a mistake to skip the interviews. I can understand the photos, but a sincere apology with a clarification of his wife's condition, etc etc -- he could have sorted it all out....
I think it was a mistake to skip the interviews. I can understand the photos, but a sincere apology with a clarification of his wife's condition, etc etc -- he could have sorted it all out.
Instead, we'll get a few days of speculation until Chris Rock releases a statement apologizing for the joke, etc etc and the world will continue on.
It did feel surreal, though. It definitely looked like a fake slap.. but then it wasn't.
His acceptance speech was alright, but it just isn't how it should have been. I really hope this wasn't all some dumb stunt.
At the end of the day here, the biggest thing happened is that Will Smith just blew up his celebrity status. Which in the grand scheme of things doesn’t matter, and doesn’t really reflect on us as...
At the end of the day here, the biggest thing happened is that Will Smith just blew up his celebrity status. Which in the grand scheme of things doesn’t matter, and doesn’t really reflect on us as a society as Will and Jada are just weird people in general.
It is still fascinating though how a man of Smith’s stature let himself get overcome with… wife guy syndrome? I’m not sure how to describe it.
Edit: and honestly I don’t know how Smith would even have been able to handle all the questions. This is a situation that’s gonna require him to step away for a while and then come back with a video on his YouTube channel after gathering his thoughts and after meeting with possibly multiple publicists and lawyers.
I disagree. I do not think he was in a state of mind where he was in any condition to handle interviews. I guarantee that man had levels of adrenaline running through his veins that haven't been...
I think it was a mistake to skip the interviews.
I disagree. I do not think he was in a state of mind where he was in any condition to handle interviews. I guarantee that man had levels of adrenaline running through his veins that haven't been seen since the charge of the light brigade.
well, he still managed to make the Vanity Fair party and was dancing away to his hits :) I just think he should have just come out and said, 'the way I responded was wrong,...' and got it all over...
well, he still managed to make the Vanity Fair party and was dancing away to his hits :)
I just think he should have just come out and said, 'the way I responded was wrong,...' and got it all over with right away.
edit: and here we go! this is what he should have said last night
“Jokes at my expense are a part of the job, but a joke about Jada’s medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally,” he wrote. “I would like to publicly apologize to you, Chris. I was out of line and I was wrong. I am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man I want to be. There is no place for violence in a world of love and kindness.”
Smith added in his post that, “Violence in all forms is poisonous and destructive.”
On the Twitter front, I have seen numerous people (at least one of which I have a huge amount of respect for) say that white people aren't allowed to express an opinion on this. I think that's the...
On the Twitter front, I have seen numerous people (at least one of which I have a huge amount of respect for) say that white people aren't allowed to express an opinion on this. I think that's the culture war that's being referred to.
I am seeing this in a lot of places too, from people I have a lot in common with. I am seeing POC voices being amplified (a good thing!) that agree with this Which makes me wonder if I'm missing...
I am seeing this in a lot of places too, from people I have a lot in common with. I am seeing POC voices being amplified (a good thing!) that agree with this
Which makes me wonder if I'm missing something here. Is my privilege blinding me?
Of course none of the people talking about this are actually going into detail about WHY they agree or WHY it's okay for Will to have done what he did... just an automatic expectation is being set up that this isn't something for white people to have an opinion on and basically "screw you, violence is never the answer types of white people". Yet of course, those doing the amplifying are indeed having an opinion (of agreement), and you can't start equating "not allowed to have an opinion" and "only allowed to have opinions that agree with me"... I'm just confused here.
What am I missing? [ I think I found what I am missing, see my later considerations ]
Here's a thread with replies that maybe shares a bit of light on some thought processes going on: https://twitter.com/ItsShanghaid/status/1508472428351176710
This tweet feels like it was precision engineered to frustrate me! The guy's underlying argument is "sometimes it's fair to be the one who escalates from words to physical conflict" - outside of a...
This tweet feels like it was precision engineered to frustrate me! The guy's underlying argument is "sometimes it's fair to be the one who escalates from words to physical conflict" - outside of a few vanishingly small edge cases I don't agree with him, but I respect his right to make that case.
Problem is, rather than doing so, he's stretching the language to make his point seem self-evident. It's a smug, cowardly way to suggest that his view is correct - smug because it implies that anyone disagreeing is a fool for not even understanding basic language when he is the one revising that language, cowardly because it absolves him of the need to make and defend an actual argument for his position.
My experience is that using more extreme words to refer to less extreme actions has the opposite of the intended effect, in most cases. It doesn't underline the very real harm that can be done by speech, it just waters down the impact of the word "violence".
I also don't believe that the author of the tweet went out and consciously thought any of this, and in some ways for me that makes it worse. It's not constructed propaganda made in bad faith, it's the voice of a person so convinced of their own correctness that they feel comfortable dismissing any dissent rather than defending their point.
That's certainly a take... I grew up as a white people around white people who largely would have responded the same way, and would certainly think it was entirely justifiable to respond to...
That's certainly a take...
I grew up as a white people around white people who largely would have responded the same way, and would certainly think it was entirely justifiable to respond to someone saying something you don't like with physical violence. It's very obviously not something that's exclusively the domain of black people.
I think painting the issue as some sort of black cultural thing where in black culture, it's acceptable to respond to speech with violence is incredibly racist.
I have a serious question that I've been grappling with. I would love to live in a society where people of various skin colors are completely integrated with each other in every way, whether that...
I have a serious question that I've been grappling with.
I would love to live in a society where people of various skin colors are completely integrated with each other in every way, whether that be economically, socially, geographically, what have you. Is such a goal possible (or even desirable) when we put up barriers like this?
I'm not coming down against the idea presented... I'm wondering if my view is realistic anymore.
That's the thing about empathy though, you can really only know things from your own point of view, you can only really guess at others'. I would argue that hair is particularly meaningful to...
The talking point derives from the source of the joke, Jada's hair and her alopecia. Generally speaking there is an idea that hair is particularly meaningful to black women (and not just women in general), and that the loss of a black woman's hair is particularly damaging to her emotionally.
That's the thing about empathy though, you can really only know things from your own point of view, you can only really guess at others'. I would argue that hair is particularly meaningful to everyone, it's a huge part of how people perceive you. When I started losing my hair around 10 years ago, it was absolutely devastating. It completely changes people's perceptions of you, and places you in a different "category." I will say that because its so much more common in men than women, maybe it would have been worse if I were a woman, but ascribing some sort of special status to black women or women as a whole, or any other group of people, where you can't joke about this thing otherwise it's ok for people to slap you is just nuts.
I have a few thoughts about toxic masculine codes of violence and honor... Last Friday night my friends and I left a gay nightlife area and walked a few blocks over to an area that has straight...
I have a few thoughts about toxic masculine codes of violence and honor...
Last Friday night my friends and I left a gay nightlife area and walked a few blocks over to an area that has straight nightclubs for some late night hotdogs. (You'd think us queer folks would be great customers for a late night sausage, but alas there were no such options in our area.) There we observed how the social atmosphere was so different. In the gay area, men were laughing, hugging, kissing, and being convivial. But in the straight area, the mood felt tense and competitive as men were jousting for women's attention or guarding 'their' women against other men's advances.
I think this mass publicized incident sets a negative cultural precedent. I think that there should be clear and significant penalties to Will Smith and his career to send the message that low-level violence is not an acceptable means of settling social disputes. And that the idea that a man has to protect a woman's honor, as another commenter mentioned, is needless and archaic.
I'm a straight guy who hangs out with gay folks a lot, and the difference in our sexual/romantic landscapes always makes me sad. Obviously there are big problems in the gay and lesbian "sexual...
I'm a straight guy who hangs out with gay folks a lot, and the difference in our sexual/romantic landscapes always makes me sad. Obviously there are big problems in the gay and lesbian "sexual marketplace" as well and I don't want to minimize those, but overall it's always strikes me as so much friendlier.
When I go out at night at a straight bar or club, every woman is immediately extremely suspicious of me and trying to figure out if I'm a predator or creep. Every man is sizing me up and trying to assess how to best belittle me or physically attack me if necessary. It's ridiculously hard to have even a friendly nonsexual interaction with people because everyone tends to be on edge and in hunting/guarding mode. It feels more like stalking through the jungles of khe sanh looking for snipers than having a fun night out sometimes. I mostly prefer just hanging out with my gay friends at gay places nowadays, with the unfortunate realization that if enough straight people think the same way as me, those places will become straight places too.
Much of the conversation here has focused on the moments leading up to The Slap (pre-The Slap) and instance of The Slap (The Slap Itself), as these two periods of time are of course necessary for...
Much of the conversation here has focused on the moments leading up to The Slap (pre-The Slap) and instance of The Slap (The Slap Itself), as these two periods of time are of course necessary for understanding whether The Slap could be justified. But there's another period of time which seems to be largely ignored (or folded in with) the The Slap Itself -- and that's the moment after (post-The Slap).
I'd argue that analyzing post-The Slap is critical when considering whether Smith's actions can be justified.
What people might not realize (since most people didn't watch this moment live) is that spectators didn't immediately see The Slap Itself as inherently wrong or disgusting -- more than anything else, it was confusing. Did he really hit him? Was this scripted? Imagine this counterfactual: what if, immediately after smacking Rock, Smith had burst out laughing? Would that have added levity to the situation? Would Rock have gone along with it? I mean, it would still technically be battery, but it's possible everyone would've laughed it off.
The Slap Itself is ambiguous -- does Smith mean harm, or is he just fooling around? Smith's post-The Slap behavior offers clarity to an otherwise ambiguous moment. People watching on television wouldn't have caught the proceeding exchange (since the audio was cut immediately after The Slap Itself), but the folk at the award ceremony certainly did. Smith yells at Rock:
Smith: Keep my wife's name out your fucking mouth!
Rock: Wow dude. It was a G.I. Jane joke.
Smith: Keep my WIFE'S NAME out your FUCKING MOUTH!
That is the moment of clarity -- Smith is dead serious. But if this is the instant at which Smith expresses his anger, we should wonder: was The Slap Itself actually necessary for Smith to convey his displeasure with Rock's joke? Imagine another counterfactual: what if Smith had, immediately after Rock delivered his joke, simply stood up and exclaimed his demand without slapping Rock? Surely that would've killed the mood in the room, which is an effective way of responding to a distasteful joke.
Undoubtedly The Slap Itself added stakes. But it also may have undermined Smith's message by shifting the conversation from Rock's joke to Smith's actions.
Will Smith has posted an apology on Instagram that I think covers the important aspects of the issue. I know he’s been going through some stuff outside this debacle and hope he’s getting the...
Will Smith has posted an apology on Instagram that I think covers the important aspects of the issue. I know he’s been going through some stuff outside this debacle and hope he’s getting the support he needs.
I'm really sad this debacle overshadowed Questlove's Summer of Soul victory. With all the weird racial slants on the fight, I want to highlight a great film that might get overlooked as a result.
I'm really sad this debacle overshadowed Questlove's Summer of Soul victory. With all the weird racial slants on the fight, I want to highlight a great film that might get overlooked as a result.
They both exit this looking pretty bad. Chris Rock is more wrong, if that matters, but Will's response was clearly out of line masculine posturing and could have potentially escalated things...
They both exit this looking pretty bad. Chris Rock is more wrong, if that matters, but Will's response was clearly out of line masculine posturing and could have potentially escalated things further.
I guess the way that I look at this is that if I was friends with Will Smith I'd generally take his side. I get it. But sometime after it all cools down, if he didn't fully learn this himself, we'd have a talk about how to handle that kind of thing. Chris Rock did deserve it in a certain sense, but acting like Will did makes things worse 99 times outta 100.
As for if we're being hyper-critical because these are two notable black men, I dunno. Maybe people are, I don't hang out on Twitter or whatever but I certainly don't doubt it. There is extra pressure to be perfect as a public figure that is black. But I know if George Clooney slapped John Goodman in such a public setting, I'd say the same thing.
I've got to strongly disagree with you on this point. Chris Rock made a joke in poor taste. Will Smith physically assaulted someone. Sorry, but you don't get to hit people because you disagree...
Chris Rock is more wrong, if that matters
I've got to strongly disagree with you on this point. Chris Rock made a joke in poor taste. Will Smith physically assaulted someone. Sorry, but you don't get to hit people because you disagree with what they said. Smith was absolutely more in the wrong - if he was really that upset, then leave. Or ask Chris for an apology. Or call Chris an asshole. Don't hit him.
Chris Rock is probably thankful, he just got notoriety and material for two Netflix specials (his comedy certainly needed the CPR...). Hundreds of comedians are now furiously writing new jokes...
Chris Rock is probably thankful, he just got notoriety and material for two Netflix specials (his comedy certainly needed the CPR...).
Hundreds of comedians are now furiously writing new jokes about Jada and Will Smith, who will be the butt of a lot of jokes for years to come. Way to throw your career down the drain, his leading man status requires a well meaning persona. In the day of his greatest triumph. That's just sad.
Edit: And all for such a silly lame joke. It would make a little more sense if this was Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes.
Am I misreading this or are you justifying Will Smith's act of violence with the sole reason that you personally enjoyed seeing a comedian getting hit for telling a pointed joke? Are you...
Exemplary
Am I misreading this or are you justifying Will Smith's act of violence with the sole reason that you personally enjoyed seeing a comedian getting hit for telling a pointed joke?
Are you suggesting physical violence is okay if you don't like what the other person is saying as long as it's a specific kind of physical violence and not another kind? Or is it only okay if it's against comedians?
Where did all these other facets come from in this situation? It seems no more complicated than a six year old responding on the schoolyard to a yo mama joke. Why do we have to consider all that when it seems pretty unlikely Will Smith did all that calculus in the five seconds it took for him to immediately respond, reach Chris Rock, and slap him? It seems the only reason we have to consider this to have a "reasonable" view is just so we can muddle the situation and drag it down into mealymouthed buts and what ifs so that we distract from the fact that Will Smith chose violence over any sort of measured or mature response.
I don't think that that sole take is unreasonable at all because it describes the situation in its actual totality. All the other facets add nothing except confusion and distraction with the goal of removing Will Smith's agency from his own actions and instead to find ways to shift the blame onto a comedian for doing comedy (and then to celebrate specifically that a comedian got hit for telling an edgy joke).
Agreed. This is a pretty open and shut case, so to speak: You don't turn to violence just because you find someone saying something disagreeable. We have laws against assault and battery for a...
Agreed. This is a pretty open and shut case, so to speak: You don't turn to violence just because you find someone saying something disagreeable. We have laws against assault and battery for a reason. Because in a civilized society, this is just unacceptable. Otherwise most of us would be out there beating people up and likely also getting beat up on the daily because of things that come out of our mouths, malicious or not. Not a great system, which is why we did away with it long, long ago.
Notice how we don't have exemptions in the prohibition of assault and battery for "defending my or someone's honor," or any reason other than self-defense. At least not in the US that I'm aware of.
Whether Rock's joke was tasteless or not is beside the point. Whether Will Smith or Jada Smith were rightfully pissed or not is beside the point. It being on national TV is beside the point. Whether Rock "had it coming" or not is beside the point. Because you cannot and should not in any situation, in any context, physically assault someone like that, unless they physically assaulted you first, which at that point is self defense. And that's not what happened last night. It's not what millions of us saw last night and today.
[Edit: My views on this may be evolving, please see my other posts] Yeah. It really is this cut and dry and I find attempts to make this whole thing into something more to be unnecessary. We can...
[Edit: My views on this may be evolving, please see my other posts]
Yeah. It really is this cut and dry and I find attempts to make this whole thing into something more to be unnecessary.
We can and we should try to examine situations and why they happen and the history surrounding them and various aspects that can lead to something (privileges, cultures, histories, dynamics of power and oppression, violence, and what not)- but I feel like this is often done for things that really don't warrant it. Sometimes I think we project a false layer of analysis on top of things rather than seeing them for what they are.
All I am seeing today is a bunch of philosophizing and justifying and having to have a side to pick on this, and having that side apparently lean towards a political view- I think our propensity to tribalize/polarize on nearly every single fact of every single thing is ultimately destructive. I say this as someone pretty strongly to the left, too. I'm sure this is another thing that will have the left barking at each other for really no reason.
Sometimes, it just is what it is- a comedian made an offensive joke and someone felt necessary to use physical violence in response. That is unjustifiable, no matter how much we might think we enjoy that it happened. Letting our emotions justify it is dangerous too.
The one "layer" I would add is that I started thinking about it in the greater context of the times we live in. Namely, the Jan 6 riots. Not that a single slap is anywhere near comparable to what...
The one "layer" I would add is that I started thinking about it in the greater context of the times we live in. Namely, the Jan 6 riots.
Not that a single slap is anywhere near comparable to what happened on Jan 6. These are not on the same level at all. However, isn't this another case where people decided that violence was OK? They decided they didn't like the results of a discussion or action (which is fine), they decided to let their emotions take control, and they decided violence was the answer.
I didn't mention it initially because it kinda felt like Godwin's Law-esque. And like you said, it's cut and dry. This is just bad behavior, plain as day. Is it reasonable for Will Smith to be angry? Sure! People get mad all the time from things others say. But they don't go around slapping people. However reasonable Smith's emotions were, his overeaction was unreasonable, plain and simple.
We need less hot heads and more cooler heads. In all areas of our lives and world.
Hrm, if it comes simply down to deciding violence is okay it gets complicated fast. I think I'm pretty okay with people punching Nazis. But, I don't say that as a valid comparison, only that it...
Hrm, if it comes simply down to deciding violence is okay it gets complicated fast. I think I'm pretty okay with people punching Nazis. But, I don't say that as a valid comparison, only that it demonstrates that deciding violence is okayisn't cut and dry necessarily, there indeed is nuance. It is absolutely in ZERO ways comparable to this event, other than for me addressing that statement, to be clear.
But the fact it isn't comparable is also sort-of the point. It isn't like Chris Rock was threatening harm or anything- but I'm starting to understand how some view Chris Rock's words as a type of violence (I know we sometimes balk at the word being used in this way, but let's consider it might be true). Additionally some have pointed to this article: "Chris Rock's Poisonous Legacy" as being an example of Chris being a toxic influence- and considering that some view his status/brand as being harmful to the community- maybe that is also seen as a violence at scale kind of problem (if we accept the premise that violence is a spectrum that can be verbal, personal, large scale, physical, and all sorts of sizes and shapes)
I am revisiting my view on this (even if it remains unchanged) because of what I'm seeing some other reasonable voices say, so yeah.... I don't even know how to feel about it now and maybe that's okay because it got me thinking at least
Edit: Also let's consider the fact that black women (and their appearance) are often a target of society and its jokes, and their experiences are valid, and one would think Chris would have known better given his documentary, which makes it coming from him even worse.
Yeah, this is important imo. We can view Smith's action as mostly about emotional harm in response to emotional harm. That slap (any slap, really) was aimed at his mind, not his cheek. Is that...
But the fact it isn't comparable is also sort-of the point. It isn't like Chris Rock was threatening harm or anything- but I'm starting to understand how some view Chris Rock's words as a type of violence (I know we sometimes balk at the word being used in this way, but let's consider it might be true).
Yeah, this is important imo. We can view Smith's action as mostly about emotional harm in response to emotional harm. That slap (any slap, really) was aimed at his mind, not his cheek. Is that great? No, but it's quid-pro-quo. It's emotional self-defense in a way. And while we have to acknowledge that there's a nonzero chance of physical harm as a result of this physical conveyance of the emotional harm (e.g. Rock falls on his head and dies on the spot), there's also a nonzero chance of physical (self) harm as a result of emotional harm such as the one Rock inflicted on Jada Smith. Think self-harm or suicide. We generally acknowledge that suicide and self-harm have causes, but forget that with "sticks and stones".
The reason (I think) people are very quick to call out that "violence is never the option" is that violence is always shit. There's a black-and-white boundary you can draw where "violence" is always more bad than "peace". (That boundary makes important assumptions, but whatever.) What people forget to think about is that words are sometimes just as bad as some forms of violence. Some words are really fucking bad. Which means that resorting to violence from a previously non-violent situation is not necessarily an escalation.
Of course, the calculus changes slightly if you're talking about relationships: If you're in a relationship where slapping is happening, whether that happens for physical or emotional harm, you've left the bounds of healthy relationships. There, the "full pacifism" mindset works again. Which is to say, I can consider the Smith-Rock situation a gray area without having to square the circle of domestic abuse again. Two entirely different things.
Please don't take my opinion here to imply anything beyond what it says. I need to digest this some more to form a proper opinion on The Oscar Situation (dibs on the band name) beyond "it's complicated". For example, I'm not saying that Smith's response was his only option or necessary or correct.
What were his actions? He said she looked like GI Jane, a more than 20 year old movie starring Demi Moore (considered one of Hollywood's great beauties at the time) at the peak of her career. As...
but "edgy comedians" have always been making jokes like that and I at least get a bit of schadenfreude out of seeing Chris face the consequences of his actions.
What were his actions? He said she looked like GI Jane, a more than 20 year old movie starring Demi Moore (considered one of Hollywood's great beauties at the time) at the peak of her career. As far as roasts go this was about as tame and non-edgy as can be.
Jada Pickett-Smith has been incredibly open in interviews about her struggles with alopecia, including how it has ruined her self esteem and had her "shaking with fear" when the hair loss was...
Jada Pickett-Smith has been incredibly open in interviews about her struggles with alopecia, including how it has ruined her self esteem and had her "shaking with fear" when the hair loss was happening because she knew how it would effect her career and how the world viewed her. Chris Rock knows how sensitive the topic of a black woman's hair is given he made an entire movie about unfair beauty standards for black women and how black women are pressured to make their hair "more white" with products that often lead to premature hair loss. He made a shitty joke about something he knows is a sensitive topic for black women in general and that JPS has said is a major point of self-esteem and confidence issues that were caused by an autoimmune disorder, and then instead of moving on from the joke he complained that the crowd reacted negatively to it.
It was definitely a shitty joke. Chris Rock was an ass for telling it. But surely that doesn't excuse Will Smith getting violent right? I don't want to assume that's what you're saying, but I have...
It was definitely a shitty joke. Chris Rock was an ass for telling it. But surely that doesn't excuse Will Smith getting violent right? I don't want to assume that's what you're saying, but I have seen some absolutely wild takes around this whole thing so my barometer is a little off right now.
I do not endorse Will Smith choosing violence. I have no problem with Will Smith choosing to hit Chris Rock. It is not the choice I'd like to have seen him make, but I do not think the actions he...
I do not endorse Will Smith choosing violence. I have no problem with Will Smith choosing to hit Chris Rock. It is not the choice I'd like to have seen him make, but I do not think the actions he chose are an unacceptable response. I have spent enough of my life getting torn down for my auto-immune disorder under the guise of "its just a joke" and had the high road lead nowhere but more harassment that yeah, I'm fine with Chris Rock getting slapped in the face.
Frankly, it seems like the two perspectives in this thread are "this is absolutely unconscionable and terrible" and "idk, probably not a great idea but I get it", and it's no surprise to me which...
Frankly, it seems like the two perspectives in this thread are "this is absolutely unconscionable and terrible" and "idk, probably not a great idea but I get it", and it's no surprise to me which side all the disabled folks seem to fall on, myself included.
I'm sorta surprised how strong the negative response is here toward Will. I dunno, within my own circle the consensus is that Chris Rock went way over the line and while we may have slightly...
I'm sorta surprised how strong the negative response is here toward Will. I dunno, within my own circle the consensus is that Chris Rock went way over the line and while we may have slightly different ideas of what ideally should have happened, we all understand and sympathize with the violent response that came out. I didn't think it'd be all that different here.
I don't think I would go so far as "this is absolutely unconscionable and terrible", it's not like Will Smith stabbed Chris Rock or anything. That said, I really respect both you and...
I don't think I would go so far as "this is absolutely unconscionable and terrible", it's not like Will Smith stabbed Chris Rock or anything. That said, I really respect both you and @Micycle_the_Bichael so it may be that I need to check my own privilege when it comes to judging folks' reactions to this whole deal.
this is another part of it for me. Chris Rock got slapped in the face one time by Will Smith and then Will walked away and sat down. Will didn't stab him, he didn't beat the shit out of him, he...
it's not like Will Smith stabbed Chris Rock or anything
this is another part of it for me. Chris Rock got slapped in the face one time by Will Smith and then Will walked away and sat down. Will didn't stab him, he didn't beat the shit out of him, he didn't even punch him. He slapped him in the face one time.
I understand why you and other people might be hesitant or conflicted around this too. I really do. I don't love violence and choose not to resort to it myself. I would have preferred Will Smith didn't slap Chris Rock. I get why he it though.
Honestly I don't really care about the interpersonal issues around the slap. If you tell jokes you probably somewhat expect to catch hands. And that slap was clearly meant more as a "STFU" message...
Honestly I don't really care about the interpersonal issues around the slap. If you tell jokes you probably somewhat expect to catch hands. And that slap was clearly meant more as a "STFU" message than actually trying to hurt him.
But the fact that the slap overshadowed what should have been a big night, not just for Will Smith himself, but for the rest of the Oscars is just kind of sad. It's a major public event and part of the reason we have standards of decorum around this stuff is because it's about more than just you.
If it was something that happened at a night club or a party then it's grist for gossip rags and all in good fun. But because of this important stories, like Coda winning for best picture, get overshadowed. Instead we have a buffet of bad takes about what "camp" you're in and we're all just left wondering about whether Will Smith is doing okay emotionally.
I hate the phrase "check your privilege" because it's so ill-defined and often used to just mean "you're [group] and I don't like your opinion", but... I don't know. I do think there's a different...
I hate the phrase "check your privilege" because it's so ill-defined and often used to just mean "you're [group] and I don't like your opinion", but... I don't know. I do think there's a different perspective for people who have the experience of being targeted for this kind of thing.
I'm not in the habit of saying it to anybody else, but I've always taken it to mean that I need to examine the blind spots that I may not realize I have because of various types of privilege....
I'm not in the habit of saying it to anybody else, but I've always taken it to mean that I need to examine the blind spots that I may not realize I have because of various types of privilege. Check like "check a list" instead of check like "put in check", but I may be using it wrong. It's something that I try to make a habit of, along with recognizing that I just don't know everything in general. I think it works best as a gentle reminder to someone that they may not have the best perspective on an issue and they need to think about that before they continue to run their mouth in ignorance, but I can definitely agree that it's often used dismissively.
I simply don't know how analogizing it to making her look like one of the 1990s' "it girls" in an major role salts that wound enough to merit that sort of reaction at all. It's not at all...
Jada Pickett-Smith has been incredibly open in interviews about her struggles with alopecia, including how it has ruined her self esteem and had her "shaking with fear" when the hair loss was happening because she knew how it would effect her career and how the world viewed her.
I simply don't know how analogizing it to making her look like one of the 1990s' "it girls" in an major role salts that wound enough to merit that sort of reaction at all. It's not at all unreasonable to view that as the kind of light ribbing people do when minor roasts are fair game, as they are parties for public figures. If she truly was that sensitive about it I'd have figured she'd wear a wig and I reckon Chris Rock would have understood not to pick at someone for that.
Sometimes jokes fall flat and it's pretty normal for comics to shrug it off when they do. After Will Smith slapped him you could see Chris Rock's gears spinning with all the zingers he was ready to throw out before thinking better of it. If Rock actually wanted to go after her to hurt her feelings I'm sure he could have gone much harder, I found Regina Hall's joke a little earlier about their open relationship to be much harsher and I can't help but wonder if Will Smith is still nursing some issues with feelings of emasculation coming out of that.
That's a fairly normal thing comedians do when a crowd reacts that way to a joke, it wasn't unusual or a complaint really. It's part of how they slide from one joke to another and happens very,...
and then instead of moving on from the joke he complained that the crowd reacted negatively to it.
That's a fairly normal thing comedians do when a crowd reacts that way to a joke, it wasn't unusual or a complaint really. It's part of how they slide from one joke to another and happens very, very frequently.
The joke may have been crass but that's also to be expected in an award show comedy intro. Nothing Chris Rock said was unusual or over an unprecedented line really, even if it fell into crass territory. And certainly nothing that would have justified the way Will Smith responded to it. People have been telling jokes like this about other people at these events for decades, the unusual part of the incident was Will Smith's response, not Chris Rock's joke.
I mean you could have just called me privileged and problematic by replying to my comment about it. And I would have owned up to the problematic aspect but disputed the privileged part. I think...
I mean you could have just called me privileged and problematic by replying to my comment about it. And I would have owned up to the problematic aspect but disputed the privileged part.
I think analyzing this moment that happened on an Oscar stage between two millionaires as being significant of anything real, might be fine and people can do whatever they want. But it is inherently silly. And a lot of it verges on celebrity gossip between the relationship that Will and Jada have and how she’s treated him and exposed him. How he’s become the butt of jokes since Jada’s admission of cheating. How the ceremony included another joke about their relationship. And Rock coming out just broke the camels back.
The reality is we don’t really know what went through Smith’s mind. Or whether Jada asked Smith to do something about it. There’s so little information and all of it is based on speculation. And it’s being rammed down these lines being drawn in the sand about which side you choose and what that means about your politics.
I’m just saying Smith shouldn’t have hit Rock like that. If Smith wanted to confront Rock he could have found a better way. Even if Smith just yelled what he yelled it would have been better, and it still would have been defending his wife. That’s just the point of view from a person that grew up around fights and violence and gangsters.
If only for the fact that this ugly act is now the main talking point for the Oscars 2022. A lurid gossip page shape shadows what was meant to be a joyous celebration for many of the other artists...
I’m just saying Smith shouldn’t have hit Rock like that. If Smith wanted to confront Rock he could have found a better way.
If only for the fact that this ugly act is now the main talking point for the Oscars 2022. A lurid gossip page shape shadows what was meant to be a joyous celebration for many of the other artists who were there that night.
I feel a little sad for those who had their accomplishments and moment of celebration tainted like this.
Realistically, the 2022 Oscars are anything but a celebration of film. They gave one of the biggest actors of our generation an honorary Oscar at a non-televised ceremony the night before, cut out...
Realistically, the 2022 Oscars are anything but a celebration of film.
You know what a great way to celebrate film is? To not give a damn what a bunch of arbitrary "important" people think about film and just watch what you love.
I'm not really interested in the politics and inner workings of US awards ceremonies, but there are definitely stories and achievements in all awards that don't deserve to have their roles be...
I'm not really interested in the politics and inner workings of US awards ceremonies, but there are definitely stories and achievements in all awards that don't deserve to have their roles be disrespected and overshadowed.
We can be cynical about these kinds of events as a whole, but up and coming artists and professionals deserve recognition, and the Oscars often still represent the pinnacle of that for their field.
On the other hand, 90% of today's biggest stars are most likely never going to win an Oscar. So maybe it's time to find another award to pump up instead?
On the other hand, 90% of today's biggest stars are most likely never going to win an Oscar. So maybe it's time to find another award to pump up instead?
I think you raise an interesting question. How responsible are "the little people" for a toxic environment? Not that at anyone at the Oscars could appropriately be described as inconsequential or...
I think you raise an interesting question. How responsible are "the little people" for a toxic environment? Not that at anyone at the Oscars could appropriately be described as inconsequential or rote in their role and influence.
It's a little like asking the question of how responsible are the citizenry for someone like Putin? Like Trump? Like J. Edgar Hoover? Like Kissinger? Or on the flip side, like Dr. King? Kennedy? Carter?
Also is the question is how responsible are people like Smith? Often perpetrators are victims themselves.
I don't have any answers, and will warrant that if they exist at all, they're hard to come by.
I have very, very little regard for the Oscars, but launching an "investigation" into this of all things feels like a new low of arbitrary moral grandstanding. How about "investigating" the...
I have very, very little regard for the Oscars, but launching an "investigation" into this of all things feels like a new low of arbitrary moral grandstanding. How about "investigating" the convicted rapist who won to a standing ovation?
Really too bad this became the story of the night. I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t really have a problem with the slap. Sometimes people deserve to get slapped, as was the...
Really too bad this became the story of the night.
I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t really have a problem with the slap. Sometimes people deserve to get slapped, as was the case here. What’s next, making jokes about people with double mastectomies or burn victims?
Often forgotten that Carlin also talked extensively about not punching down in exactly the way Chris Rock did. Not that he didn't go over the line ever, but he definitely didn't have a...
Often forgotten that Carlin also talked extensively about not punching down in exactly the way Chris Rock did. Not that he didn't go over the line ever, but he definitely didn't have a free-for-all approach to comedy.
There’s a world of difference between making a joke about something in aggregate and directing it at a single person who you don’t have a close relationship with, struggling with something they...
There’s a world of difference between making a joke about something in aggregate and directing it at a single person who you don’t have a close relationship with, struggling with something they can’t control, for the benefit of an audience that could care less about said struggle. That’s just bullying, and it can inflict far more damage than a slap ever could.
I'll try. It might be seen as a form of bullying but it will always be in the eye of the beholder and that's why I don't think we can't make it black/white and say he's was out of line in or...
I'll try. It might be seen as a form of bullying but it will always be in the eye of the beholder and that's why I don't think we can't make it black/white and say he's was out of line in or crossed it. Now, I'm not saying you can hide behind "it was just a joke" every time and that's where finesse and skill come in. Chris Rock is a very experienced comedian and this joke was on the tamer side if we're talking offensiveness IMO and the way he delivered it was without malice and with a smile. He knew he was pushing it a bit and tried to convey that through his delivery is my interpretation. He did what he had too to make it work and it did. Imagine how little outcry there would have been about this joke if he hadn't got slapped and it stood alone as delivered? I suspect non. There's a reason Chris Rock, Ricky Gervais, Louie CK, Bill Burr etc. are still going strong despite saying some horrible shit through the years. It's talent, skill and delivery. If you don't have that it will be immediately obvious and properly seen as just offensive and bullying and these people will quickly fade. One of the finest and hardest accomplishments for a comedian is pushing buttons to make us laugh at ourselves and maybe even think.
I think it's perfectly fine to feel offended by a comedian. We all have our boundaries and triggers and that's OK. Just don't listen to them or leave. It's your responsibility. But please don't try to make other people feel like you because this comedian hit a nerve in you. Will Smith might not have had the option to leave (?) this night given his position but his reaction ruined every change he had to take him seriously if you really wanted to discuss if that joke was to much. I think he was wrong but don't hate him because of it. He's human and is obviously going through some serious stuff. I don't think Chris Rock hates him either but I think he's a bit sad that it happened I know I would be.
Who gives a crap about Oscars anymore. If not for this incident, I wouldn't even know they were on yesterday. If I put my tinfoil hat on for a moment - the whole thing feels like a PR stunt.
Who gives a crap about Oscars anymore. If not for this incident, I wouldn't even know they were on yesterday. If I put my tinfoil hat on for a moment - the whole thing feels like a PR stunt.
As one of the only, if not the only, person who saw this live here. I have to say this was a weird moment. When it initially happened it felt like a bit or a sketch. Chris Rock made a joke about Jada Plinkett-Smith’s shaved head (Plinkett deals with alopecia), Smith goes on stage and Rock is laughing thinking Smith is gonna make a joke of some kind. Instead Smith slaps Rock in the face. Initially I thought it was a fake hit. I didn’t think they connected. The room at the Oscar’s in laughing, I laughed.
Rock still laughing, looking back clearly nervous laughter, goes “WOW, Will Smith just smacked the shit out of me.” We don’t hear this though as the broadcast gets muted throughout the duration of this. The longest time an awards broadcast has been muted. They cut to Smith yelling, now he looks PISSED and now we all get the sense that this wasn’t a bit. He says “get my wife’s name out your fucking mouth” TWICE. Rock apologizes and says “that was the greatest moment in television” and like a professional moves on to present Documentary Feature.
It was shocking. Nobody knew what was happening until tweets from reporters inside the Oscar’s confirm that this was not scripted and that the tone of the room had completely changed. I couldn’t believe it. Will Smith just smacked the shit out of Chris Rock on live television in front of millions of people across the world. AND as I follow the race I knew Smith was LOCKED to win the Oscar. Now, I couldn’t wait to see what he would say.
Reports come in that fellow actors come to support Smith with hugs. Denzel gives him a few words and so does his publicist. Bradley Copper gives him a hug. Once he wins the Oscar just a few minutes later he’s a puddle of tears talking about how he’s defending his family and wants to be a vessel a love. He also apologizes to the academy and says “please invite me next year.”
The rest of the show is weird. Everything feels off. People in the auditorium try to ignore it but there’s something weighing everything down. It all felt like a fever dream.
Will Smith ruined his persona. The nice guy image he had for the past few decades. My mom, once a huge fan, instantly turns on him. What was supposed to be what his entire career was leading up to, ended up the thing that’s going to ruin him forever.
He skips all the post-show press, the other three acting winners all pose together for photos (as is tradition that ALL acting winners do) but Smith is absent.
People are trying to turn this thing into a culture war thing. About a black man defending his wife and white people getting mad at that. FUCK that bullshit. What he did was wrong. You don’t slap people like that, you don’t rush a stage and assault someone just because you didn’t like what they said. You deal with that like an adult and not a kid in a playground. It has nothing to do with online culture wars, you do not hit people like that.
EDIT: I just realized that this was all preceded by Regina Hall making a joke about Jada cheating on Will.
EDIT 2: And Rebel Wilson made a joke about it at the BAFTAs after Smith won Lead Actor (Smith was not present).
EDIT 3: I specifically say it's weird to turn this into a culture war thing and yet people in the comments are doing so. Great stuff everyone. So dumb. This is what happens when you spend too much time on twitter.
Edit 4: Will Smith’s apology
Which opinions are "culture war", and which are not? I genuinely can't parse what you mean by this.
I certainly wouldn’t have phrased it like that, but I think I can see where they’re coming from. I was expecting this thread to be totally uncontroversial: you don’t respond to words by hitting people, Smith fucked up at a very high profile event, but ultimately no real harm done and it’ll all blow over.
But then I saw a post here saying that expressing what I considered to be an incredibly straightforward, almost incontrovertible view was actually coming from a place of privilege. Lots of posts talking about this as a nuanced, intersectional, complex issue. It feels genuinely surreal to me, and I say that as someone comfortable and relatively at home in spaces where that language and style of thinking is common.
I’m not even saying I think those posts are wrong: they’re so far outside my frame of reference on this specific issue that I can’t in good faith say that, because I genuinely don’t understand where they’re coming from - even having tried. I still think it’s a simple issue. I still think Will Smith fucked up, but didn’t do lasting harm and will get off with no more than some significant internet mockery, and there’s no more to it than that.
I don’t like terms like “culture war” because they tend to be divisive, but I feel more adrift in this conversation than I have in quite some time, and I can certainly understand how the term feels apt.
Interesting. I have seen a few comments like this, asserting that we have to pick one. I think we can have both - Will Smith should not have struck Chris Rock, and, it's interesting to talk about why he did. No?
Yeah, I think that’s fair - I won’t rehash a top level comment that seems to have since been deleted, but I (and evidently others) certainly understood it to be saying “pick one” when we didn’t even think there was anything to be picked! Rightly or wrongly the tone of the thread went in an accusatory direction from there - but I think you’re right that a redraw from the starting point of “we all agree on the simple bit, now let’s explore the nuance” would be a lot more on brand for this site.
Yes, you're entirely correct. I'm 100% in favor of strong criticism against comedians or any kind of performer, even though I'm generally more forgiving than most. Just don't climb the stage to slap them.
Maybe we're talking more about the slapping because that is the surprising bit, Chris Rock making mean and offensive jokes is just what you expect, and he was much harsher in the past.
I generally don't condone using physical violence as a response to verbal insults. That said, Chris Rock made a joke about a part of Jada Pinkett Smith's body that she has struggled with. Will Smith acted in her defense. Yes, he could have handled it differently, but I still applaud him for standing up to Chris Rock. Our society needs more men that stand up to other men for being assholes to women.
The Oscar's is a roast with acts in between. You're supposed to be uncomfortable, and going to the stage and slapping a comedian because you don't like what they said is in no way acceptable.
This only seems acceptable because of macho culture, according to which male adults are excused for resolving conflicts with physical aggression.
Disagree? Just reverse Chris Rock's gender and keep everything else the same. Put his words on Tina Fey or Wanda Sykes. Would this remain acceptable in your view? No, of course not, and with good reason. It is not acceptable in any way shape or form. That's assault. Period.
What? We as a society DO NOT need more people to act like this. Why on earth would this even be an afterthought. Standing up to Chris Rock by slapping him because of a joke. Can't you see how ridiculous that sounds...
I think it was a mistake to skip the interviews. I can understand the photos, but a sincere apology with a clarification of his wife's condition, etc etc -- he could have sorted it all out.
Instead, we'll get a few days of speculation until Chris Rock releases a statement apologizing for the joke, etc etc and the world will continue on.
It did feel surreal, though. It definitely looked like a fake slap.. but then it wasn't.
His acceptance speech was alright, but it just isn't how it should have been. I really hope this wasn't all some dumb stunt.
Here's the uncensored clip.
The crazy thing is that he was laughing along while Jada looked pissed. Cut back to Chris Rock... then bam! Will Smith is on stage and equally pissed.
Even Jazzy Jeff was surprised
At the end of the day here, the biggest thing happened is that Will Smith just blew up his celebrity status. Which in the grand scheme of things doesn’t matter, and doesn’t really reflect on us as a society as Will and Jada are just weird people in general.
It is still fascinating though how a man of Smith’s stature let himself get overcome with… wife guy syndrome? I’m not sure how to describe it.
Edit: and honestly I don’t know how Smith would even have been able to handle all the questions. This is a situation that’s gonna require him to step away for a while and then come back with a video on his YouTube channel after gathering his thoughts and after meeting with possibly multiple publicists and lawyers.
A number of celebrities have done extreme things with no dent in their career.
Barbra Walters is probably already on the phone.
The whole thing is lame.
I disagree. I do not think he was in a state of mind where he was in any condition to handle interviews. I guarantee that man had levels of adrenaline running through his veins that haven't been seen since the charge of the light brigade.
well, he still managed to make the Vanity Fair party and was dancing away to his hits :)
I just think he should have just come out and said, 'the way I responded was wrong,...' and got it all over with right away.
edit: and here we go! this is what he should have said last night
CNN
On the Twitter front, I have seen numerous people (at least one of which I have a huge amount of respect for) say that white people aren't allowed to express an opinion on this. I think that's the culture war that's being referred to.
I am seeing this in a lot of places too, from people I have a lot in common with. I am seeing POC voices being amplified (a good thing!) that agree with this
Which makes me wonder if I'm missing something here. Is my privilege blinding me?
Of course none of the people talking about this are actually going into detail about WHY they agree or WHY it's okay for Will to have done what he did... just an automatic expectation is being set up that this isn't something for white people to have an opinion on and basically "screw you, violence is never the answer types of white people". Yet of course, those doing the amplifying are indeed having an opinion (of agreement), and you can't start equating "not allowed to have an opinion" and "only allowed to have opinions that agree with me"... I'm just confused here.
What am I missing? [ I think I found what I am missing, see my later considerations ]
Here's a thread with replies that maybe shares a bit of light on some thought processes going on:
https://twitter.com/ItsShanghaid/status/1508472428351176710
This tweet feels like it was precision engineered to frustrate me! The guy's underlying argument is "sometimes it's fair to be the one who escalates from words to physical conflict" - outside of a few vanishingly small edge cases I don't agree with him, but I respect his right to make that case.
Problem is, rather than doing so, he's stretching the language to make his point seem self-evident. It's a smug, cowardly way to suggest that his view is correct - smug because it implies that anyone disagreeing is a fool for not even understanding basic language when he is the one revising that language, cowardly because it absolves him of the need to make and defend an actual argument for his position.
My experience is that using more extreme words to refer to less extreme actions has the opposite of the intended effect, in most cases. It doesn't underline the very real harm that can be done by speech, it just waters down the impact of the word "violence".
I also don't believe that the author of the tweet went out and consciously thought any of this, and in some ways for me that makes it worse. It's not constructed propaganda made in bad faith, it's the voice of a person so convinced of their own correctness that they feel comfortable dismissing any dissent rather than defending their point.
That's certainly a take...
I grew up as a white people around white people who largely would have responded the same way, and would certainly think it was entirely justifiable to respond to someone saying something you don't like with physical violence. It's very obviously not something that's exclusively the domain of black people.
I think painting the issue as some sort of black cultural thing where in black culture, it's acceptable to respond to speech with violence is incredibly racist.
I have a serious question that I've been grappling with.
I would love to live in a society where people of various skin colors are completely integrated with each other in every way, whether that be economically, socially, geographically, what have you. Is such a goal possible (or even desirable) when we put up barriers like this?
I'm not coming down against the idea presented... I'm wondering if my view is realistic anymore.
That's the thing about empathy though, you can really only know things from your own point of view, you can only really guess at others'. I would argue that hair is particularly meaningful to everyone, it's a huge part of how people perceive you. When I started losing my hair around 10 years ago, it was absolutely devastating. It completely changes people's perceptions of you, and places you in a different "category." I will say that because its so much more common in men than women, maybe it would have been worse if I were a woman, but ascribing some sort of special status to black women or women as a whole, or any other group of people, where you can't joke about this thing otherwise it's ok for people to slap you is just nuts.
I have a few thoughts about toxic masculine codes of violence and honor...
Last Friday night my friends and I left a gay nightlife area and walked a few blocks over to an area that has straight nightclubs for some late night hotdogs. (You'd think us queer folks would be great customers for a late night sausage, but alas there were no such options in our area.) There we observed how the social atmosphere was so different. In the gay area, men were laughing, hugging, kissing, and being convivial. But in the straight area, the mood felt tense and competitive as men were jousting for women's attention or guarding 'their' women against other men's advances.
I think this mass publicized incident sets a negative cultural precedent. I think that there should be clear and significant penalties to Will Smith and his career to send the message that low-level violence is not an acceptable means of settling social disputes. And that the idea that a man has to protect a woman's honor, as another commenter mentioned, is needless and archaic.
I'm a straight guy who hangs out with gay folks a lot, and the difference in our sexual/romantic landscapes always makes me sad. Obviously there are big problems in the gay and lesbian "sexual marketplace" as well and I don't want to minimize those, but overall it's always strikes me as so much friendlier.
When I go out at night at a straight bar or club, every woman is immediately extremely suspicious of me and trying to figure out if I'm a predator or creep. Every man is sizing me up and trying to assess how to best belittle me or physically attack me if necessary. It's ridiculously hard to have even a friendly nonsexual interaction with people because everyone tends to be on edge and in hunting/guarding mode. It feels more like stalking through the jungles of khe sanh looking for snipers than having a fun night out sometimes. I mostly prefer just hanging out with my gay friends at gay places nowadays, with the unfortunate realization that if enough straight people think the same way as me, those places will become straight places too.
Much of the conversation here has focused on the moments leading up to The Slap (pre-The Slap) and instance of The Slap (The Slap Itself), as these two periods of time are of course necessary for understanding whether The Slap could be justified. But there's another period of time which seems to be largely ignored (or folded in with) the The Slap Itself -- and that's the moment after (post-The Slap).
I'd argue that analyzing post-The Slap is critical when considering whether Smith's actions can be justified.
What people might not realize (since most people didn't watch this moment live) is that spectators didn't immediately see The Slap Itself as inherently wrong or disgusting -- more than anything else, it was confusing. Did he really hit him? Was this scripted? Imagine this counterfactual: what if, immediately after smacking Rock, Smith had burst out laughing? Would that have added levity to the situation? Would Rock have gone along with it? I mean, it would still technically be battery, but it's possible everyone would've laughed it off.
The Slap Itself is ambiguous -- does Smith mean harm, or is he just fooling around? Smith's post-The Slap behavior offers clarity to an otherwise ambiguous moment. People watching on television wouldn't have caught the proceeding exchange (since the audio was cut immediately after The Slap Itself), but the folk at the award ceremony certainly did. Smith yells at Rock:
That is the moment of clarity -- Smith is dead serious. But if this is the instant at which Smith expresses his anger, we should wonder: was The Slap Itself actually necessary for Smith to convey his displeasure with Rock's joke? Imagine another counterfactual: what if Smith had, immediately after Rock delivered his joke, simply stood up and exclaimed his demand without slapping Rock? Surely that would've killed the mood in the room, which is an effective way of responding to a distasteful joke.
Undoubtedly The Slap Itself added stakes. But it also may have undermined Smith's message by shifting the conversation from Rock's joke to Smith's actions.
Will Smith has posted an apology on Instagram that I think covers the important aspects of the issue. I know he’s been going through some stuff outside this debacle and hope he’s getting the support he needs.
I'm really sad this debacle overshadowed Questlove's Summer of Soul victory. With all the weird racial slants on the fight, I want to highlight a great film that might get overlooked as a result.
They both exit this looking pretty bad. Chris Rock is more wrong, if that matters, but Will's response was clearly out of line masculine posturing and could have potentially escalated things further.
I guess the way that I look at this is that if I was friends with Will Smith I'd generally take his side. I get it. But sometime after it all cools down, if he didn't fully learn this himself, we'd have a talk about how to handle that kind of thing. Chris Rock did deserve it in a certain sense, but acting like Will did makes things worse 99 times outta 100.
As for if we're being hyper-critical because these are two notable black men, I dunno. Maybe people are, I don't hang out on Twitter or whatever but I certainly don't doubt it. There is extra pressure to be perfect as a public figure that is black. But I know if George Clooney slapped John Goodman in such a public setting, I'd say the same thing.
I've got to strongly disagree with you on this point. Chris Rock made a joke in poor taste. Will Smith physically assaulted someone. Sorry, but you don't get to hit people because you disagree with what they said. Smith was absolutely more in the wrong - if he was really that upset, then leave. Or ask Chris for an apology. Or call Chris an asshole. Don't hit him.
Chris Rock is probably thankful, he just got notoriety and material for two Netflix specials (his comedy certainly needed the CPR...).
Hundreds of comedians are now furiously writing new jokes about Jada and Will Smith, who will be the butt of a lot of jokes for years to come. Way to throw your career down the drain, his leading man status requires a well meaning persona. In the day of his greatest triumph. That's just sad.
Edit: And all for such a silly lame joke. It would make a little more sense if this was Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes.
Am I misreading this or are you justifying Will Smith's act of violence with the sole reason that you personally enjoyed seeing a comedian getting hit for telling a pointed joke?
Are you suggesting physical violence is okay if you don't like what the other person is saying as long as it's a specific kind of physical violence and not another kind? Or is it only okay if it's against comedians?
Where did all these other facets come from in this situation? It seems no more complicated than a six year old responding on the schoolyard to a yo mama joke. Why do we have to consider all that when it seems pretty unlikely Will Smith did all that calculus in the five seconds it took for him to immediately respond, reach Chris Rock, and slap him? It seems the only reason we have to consider this to have a "reasonable" view is just so we can muddle the situation and drag it down into mealymouthed buts and what ifs so that we distract from the fact that Will Smith chose violence over any sort of measured or mature response.
I don't think that that sole take is unreasonable at all because it describes the situation in its actual totality. All the other facets add nothing except confusion and distraction with the goal of removing Will Smith's agency from his own actions and instead to find ways to shift the blame onto a comedian for doing comedy (and then to celebrate specifically that a comedian got hit for telling an edgy joke).
Agreed. This is a pretty open and shut case, so to speak: You don't turn to violence just because you find someone saying something disagreeable. We have laws against assault and battery for a reason. Because in a civilized society, this is just unacceptable. Otherwise most of us would be out there beating people up and likely also getting beat up on the daily because of things that come out of our mouths, malicious or not. Not a great system, which is why we did away with it long, long ago.
Notice how we don't have exemptions in the prohibition of assault and battery for "defending my or someone's honor," or any reason other than self-defense. At least not in the US that I'm aware of.
Whether Rock's joke was tasteless or not is beside the point. Whether Will Smith or Jada Smith were rightfully pissed or not is beside the point. It being on national TV is beside the point. Whether Rock "had it coming" or not is beside the point. Because you cannot and should not in any situation, in any context, physically assault someone like that, unless they physically assaulted you first, which at that point is self defense. And that's not what happened last night. It's not what millions of us saw last night and today.
[Edit: My views on this may be evolving, please see my other posts]
Yeah. It really is this cut and dry and I find attempts to make this whole thing into something more to be unnecessary.
We can and we should try to examine situations and why they happen and the history surrounding them and various aspects that can lead to something (privileges, cultures, histories, dynamics of power and oppression, violence, and what not)- but I feel like this is often done for things that really don't warrant it. Sometimes I think we project a false layer of analysis on top of things rather than seeing them for what they are.
All I am seeing today is a bunch of philosophizing and justifying and having to have a side to pick on this, and having that side apparently lean towards a political view- I think our propensity to tribalize/polarize on nearly every single fact of every single thing is ultimately destructive. I say this as someone pretty strongly to the left, too. I'm sure this is another thing that will have the left barking at each other for really no reason.
Sometimes, it just is what it is- a comedian made an offensive joke and someone felt necessary to use physical violence in response. That is unjustifiable, no matter how much we might think we enjoy that it happened. Letting our emotions justify it is dangerous too.
The one "layer" I would add is that I started thinking about it in the greater context of the times we live in. Namely, the Jan 6 riots.
Not that a single slap is anywhere near comparable to what happened on Jan 6. These are not on the same level at all. However, isn't this another case where people decided that violence was OK? They decided they didn't like the results of a discussion or action (which is fine), they decided to let their emotions take control, and they decided violence was the answer.
I didn't mention it initially because it kinda felt like Godwin's Law-esque. And like you said, it's cut and dry. This is just bad behavior, plain as day. Is it reasonable for Will Smith to be angry? Sure! People get mad all the time from things others say. But they don't go around slapping people. However reasonable Smith's emotions were, his overeaction was unreasonable, plain and simple.
We need less hot heads and more cooler heads. In all areas of our lives and world.
Hrm, if it comes simply down to deciding violence is okay it gets complicated fast. I think I'm pretty okay with people punching Nazis. But, I don't say that as a valid comparison, only that it demonstrates that deciding violence is okay isn't cut and dry necessarily, there indeed is nuance. It is absolutely in ZERO ways comparable to this event, other than for me addressing that statement, to be clear.
But the fact it isn't comparable is also sort-of the point. It isn't like Chris Rock was threatening harm or anything- but I'm starting to understand how some view Chris Rock's words as a type of violence (I know we sometimes balk at the word being used in this way, but let's consider it might be true). Additionally some have pointed to this article: "Chris Rock's Poisonous Legacy" as being an example of Chris being a toxic influence- and considering that some view his status/brand as being harmful to the community- maybe that is also seen as a violence at scale kind of problem (if we accept the premise that violence is a spectrum that can be verbal, personal, large scale, physical, and all sorts of sizes and shapes)
I am revisiting my view on this (even if it remains unchanged) because of what I'm seeing some other reasonable voices say, so yeah.... I don't even know how to feel about it now and maybe that's okay because it got me thinking at least
Edit: Also let's consider the fact that black women (and their appearance) are often a target of society and its jokes, and their experiences are valid, and one would think Chris would have known better given his documentary, which makes it coming from him even worse.
Yeah, this is important imo. We can view Smith's action as mostly about emotional harm in response to emotional harm. That slap (any slap, really) was aimed at his mind, not his cheek. Is that great? No, but it's quid-pro-quo. It's emotional self-defense in a way. And while we have to acknowledge that there's a nonzero chance of physical harm as a result of this physical conveyance of the emotional harm (e.g. Rock falls on his head and dies on the spot), there's also a nonzero chance of physical (self) harm as a result of emotional harm such as the one Rock inflicted on Jada Smith. Think self-harm or suicide. We generally acknowledge that suicide and self-harm have causes, but forget that with "sticks and stones".
The reason (I think) people are very quick to call out that "violence is never the option" is that violence is always shit. There's a black-and-white boundary you can draw where "violence" is always more bad than "peace". (That boundary makes important assumptions, but whatever.) What people forget to think about is that words are sometimes just as bad as some forms of violence. Some words are really fucking bad. Which means that resorting to violence from a previously non-violent situation is not necessarily an escalation.
Of course, the calculus changes slightly if you're talking about relationships: If you're in a relationship where slapping is happening, whether that happens for physical or emotional harm, you've left the bounds of healthy relationships. There, the "full pacifism" mindset works again. Which is to say, I can consider the Smith-Rock situation a gray area without having to square the circle of domestic abuse again. Two entirely different things.
Please don't take my opinion here to imply anything beyond what it says. I need to digest this some more to form a proper opinion on The Oscar Situation (dibs on the band name) beyond "it's complicated". For example, I'm not saying that Smith's response was his only option or necessary or correct.
What were his actions? He said she looked like GI Jane, a more than 20 year old movie starring Demi Moore (considered one of Hollywood's great beauties at the time) at the peak of her career. As far as roasts go this was about as tame and non-edgy as can be.
Jada Pickett-Smith has been incredibly open in interviews about her struggles with alopecia, including how it has ruined her self esteem and had her "shaking with fear" when the hair loss was happening because she knew how it would effect her career and how the world viewed her. Chris Rock knows how sensitive the topic of a black woman's hair is given he made an entire movie about unfair beauty standards for black women and how black women are pressured to make their hair "more white" with products that often lead to premature hair loss. He made a shitty joke about something he knows is a sensitive topic for black women in general and that JPS has said is a major point of self-esteem and confidence issues that were caused by an autoimmune disorder, and then instead of moving on from the joke he complained that the crowd reacted negatively to it.
It was definitely a shitty joke. Chris Rock was an ass for telling it. But surely that doesn't excuse Will Smith getting violent right? I don't want to assume that's what you're saying, but I have seen some absolutely wild takes around this whole thing so my barometer is a little off right now.
I do not endorse Will Smith choosing violence. I have no problem with Will Smith choosing to hit Chris Rock. It is not the choice I'd like to have seen him make, but I do not think the actions he chose are an unacceptable response. I have spent enough of my life getting torn down for my auto-immune disorder under the guise of "its just a joke" and had the high road lead nowhere but more harassment that yeah, I'm fine with Chris Rock getting slapped in the face.
Frankly, it seems like the two perspectives in this thread are "this is absolutely unconscionable and terrible" and "idk, probably not a great idea but I get it", and it's no surprise to me which side all the disabled folks seem to fall on, myself included.
Disabled here. Think it was a horrible decision Smith made.
I'm sorta surprised how strong the negative response is here toward Will. I dunno, within my own circle the consensus is that Chris Rock went way over the line and while we may have slightly different ideas of what ideally should have happened, we all understand and sympathize with the violent response that came out. I didn't think it'd be all that different here.
I don't think I would go so far as "this is absolutely unconscionable and terrible", it's not like Will Smith stabbed Chris Rock or anything. That said, I really respect both you and @Micycle_the_Bichael so it may be that I need to check my own privilege when it comes to judging folks' reactions to this whole deal.
this is another part of it for me. Chris Rock got slapped in the face one time by Will Smith and then Will walked away and sat down. Will didn't stab him, he didn't beat the shit out of him, he didn't even punch him. He slapped him in the face one time.
I understand why you and other people might be hesitant or conflicted around this too. I really do. I don't love violence and choose not to resort to it myself. I would have preferred Will Smith didn't slap Chris Rock. I get why he it though.
Honestly I don't really care about the interpersonal issues around the slap. If you tell jokes you probably somewhat expect to catch hands. And that slap was clearly meant more as a "STFU" message than actually trying to hurt him.
But the fact that the slap overshadowed what should have been a big night, not just for Will Smith himself, but for the rest of the Oscars is just kind of sad. It's a major public event and part of the reason we have standards of decorum around this stuff is because it's about more than just you.
If it was something that happened at a night club or a party then it's grist for gossip rags and all in good fun. But because of this important stories, like Coda winning for best picture, get overshadowed. Instead we have a buffet of bad takes about what "camp" you're in and we're all just left wondering about whether Will Smith is doing okay emotionally.
I hate the phrase "check your privilege" because it's so ill-defined and often used to just mean "you're [group] and I don't like your opinion", but... I don't know. I do think there's a different perspective for people who have the experience of being targeted for this kind of thing.
I'm not in the habit of saying it to anybody else, but I've always taken it to mean that I need to examine the blind spots that I may not realize I have because of various types of privilege. Check like "check a list" instead of check like "put in check", but I may be using it wrong. It's something that I try to make a habit of, along with recognizing that I just don't know everything in general. I think it works best as a gentle reminder to someone that they may not have the best perspective on an issue and they need to think about that before they continue to run their mouth in ignorance, but I can definitely agree that it's often used dismissively.
I simply don't know how analogizing it to making her look like one of the 1990s' "it girls" in an major role salts that wound enough to merit that sort of reaction at all. It's not at all unreasonable to view that as the kind of light ribbing people do when minor roasts are fair game, as they are parties for public figures. If she truly was that sensitive about it I'd have figured she'd wear a wig and I reckon Chris Rock would have understood not to pick at someone for that.
Sometimes jokes fall flat and it's pretty normal for comics to shrug it off when they do. After Will Smith slapped him you could see Chris Rock's gears spinning with all the zingers he was ready to throw out before thinking better of it. If Rock actually wanted to go after her to hurt her feelings I'm sure he could have gone much harder, I found Regina Hall's joke a little earlier about their open relationship to be much harsher and I can't help but wonder if Will Smith is still nursing some issues with feelings of emasculation coming out of that.
That's a fairly normal thing comedians do when a crowd reacts that way to a joke, it wasn't unusual or a complaint really. It's part of how they slide from one joke to another and happens very, very frequently.
The joke may have been crass but that's also to be expected in an award show comedy intro. Nothing Chris Rock said was unusual or over an unprecedented line really, even if it fell into crass territory. And certainly nothing that would have justified the way Will Smith responded to it. People have been telling jokes like this about other people at these events for decades, the unusual part of the incident was Will Smith's response, not Chris Rock's joke.
I mean you could have just called me privileged and problematic by replying to my comment about it. And I would have owned up to the problematic aspect but disputed the privileged part.
I think analyzing this moment that happened on an Oscar stage between two millionaires as being significant of anything real, might be fine and people can do whatever they want. But it is inherently silly. And a lot of it verges on celebrity gossip between the relationship that Will and Jada have and how she’s treated him and exposed him. How he’s become the butt of jokes since Jada’s admission of cheating. How the ceremony included another joke about their relationship. And Rock coming out just broke the camels back.
The reality is we don’t really know what went through Smith’s mind. Or whether Jada asked Smith to do something about it. There’s so little information and all of it is based on speculation. And it’s being rammed down these lines being drawn in the sand about which side you choose and what that means about your politics.
I’m just saying Smith shouldn’t have hit Rock like that. If Smith wanted to confront Rock he could have found a better way. Even if Smith just yelled what he yelled it would have been better, and it still would have been defending his wife. That’s just the point of view from a person that grew up around fights and violence and gangsters.
If only for the fact that this ugly act is now the main talking point for the Oscars 2022. A lurid gossip page shape shadows what was meant to be a joyous celebration for many of the other artists who were there that night.
I feel a little sad for those who had their accomplishments and moment of celebration tainted like this.
Realistically, the 2022 Oscars are anything but a celebration of film.
They gave one of the biggest actors of our generation an honorary Oscar at a non-televised ceremony the night before, cut out some of the most important categories from the broadcast and trying to stay relevant via social media.
You know what a great way to celebrate film is? To not give a damn what a bunch of arbitrary "important" people think about film and just watch what you love.
I'm not really interested in the politics and inner workings of US awards ceremonies, but there are definitely stories and achievements in all awards that don't deserve to have their roles be disrespected and overshadowed.
We can be cynical about these kinds of events as a whole, but up and coming artists and professionals deserve recognition, and the Oscars often still represent the pinnacle of that for their field.
On the other hand, 90% of today's biggest stars are most likely never going to win an Oscar. So maybe it's time to find another award to pump up instead?
I think you raise an interesting question. How responsible are "the little people" for a toxic environment? Not that at anyone at the Oscars could appropriately be described as inconsequential or rote in their role and influence.
It's a little like asking the question of how responsible are the citizenry for someone like Putin? Like Trump? Like J. Edgar Hoover? Like Kissinger? Or on the flip side, like Dr. King? Kennedy? Carter?
Also is the question is how responsible are people like Smith? Often perpetrators are victims themselves.
I don't have any answers, and will warrant that if they exist at all, they're hard to come by.
I have very, very little regard for the Oscars, but launching an "investigation" into this of all things feels like a new low of arbitrary moral grandstanding. How about "investigating" the convicted rapist who won to a standing ovation?
Really too bad this became the story of the night.
I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t really have a problem with the slap. Sometimes people deserve to get slapped, as was the case here. What’s next, making jokes about people with double mastectomies or burn victims?
Yes? You can actually joke about ANYTHING if you do it right. It takes skill and finesse but It's been proven over and over again that it's doable.
George Carlin had an entire routine about this.
Often forgotten that Carlin also talked extensively about not punching down in exactly the way Chris Rock did. Not that he didn't go over the line ever, but he definitely didn't have a free-for-all approach to comedy.
There’s a world of difference between making a joke about something in aggregate and directing it at a single person who you don’t have a close relationship with, struggling with something they can’t control, for the benefit of an audience that could care less about said struggle. That’s just bullying, and it can inflict far more damage than a slap ever could.
Hence the skill and finesse....and that's your feelings and take on it. I didn't see it that way at all.
Do you care to elaborate where you disagree? I'm struggling to see how you don't see that joke or similar as a form of bullying.
I'll try. It might be seen as a form of bullying but it will always be in the eye of the beholder and that's why I don't think we can't make it black/white and say he's was out of line in or crossed it. Now, I'm not saying you can hide behind "it was just a joke" every time and that's where finesse and skill come in. Chris Rock is a very experienced comedian and this joke was on the tamer side if we're talking offensiveness IMO and the way he delivered it was without malice and with a smile. He knew he was pushing it a bit and tried to convey that through his delivery is my interpretation. He did what he had too to make it work and it did. Imagine how little outcry there would have been about this joke if he hadn't got slapped and it stood alone as delivered? I suspect non. There's a reason Chris Rock, Ricky Gervais, Louie CK, Bill Burr etc. are still going strong despite saying some horrible shit through the years. It's talent, skill and delivery. If you don't have that it will be immediately obvious and properly seen as just offensive and bullying and these people will quickly fade. One of the finest and hardest accomplishments for a comedian is pushing buttons to make us laugh at ourselves and maybe even think.
I think it's perfectly fine to feel offended by a comedian. We all have our boundaries and triggers and that's OK. Just don't listen to them or leave. It's your responsibility. But please don't try to make other people feel like you because this comedian hit a nerve in you. Will Smith might not have had the option to leave (?) this night given his position but his reaction ruined every change he had to take him seriously if you really wanted to discuss if that joke was to much. I think he was wrong but don't hate him because of it. He's human and is obviously going through some serious stuff. I don't think Chris Rock hates him either but I think he's a bit sad that it happened I know I would be.
Real Lawyer Reacts to Will Smith Slapping Chris Rock - LegalEagle channel.
Who gives a crap about Oscars anymore. If not for this incident, I wouldn't even know they were on yesterday. If I put my tinfoil hat on for a moment - the whole thing feels like a PR stunt.