That's a nice list but when is the zeitgeist going to come around on the DS Zeldas? I love those two and think they get somewhat unfairly dog piled on.
That's a nice list but when is the zeitgeist going to come around on the DS Zeldas? I love those two and think they get somewhat unfairly dog piled on.
I didn't play them when they were current because I didn't have a DS. Just personal opinion but I don't think the zeitgeist is gonna come around on them because they aren't all that great. They're...
I didn't play them when they were current because I didn't have a DS. Just personal opinion but I don't think the zeitgeist is gonna come around on them because they aren't all that great. They're not bas games, but I've played almost every Zelda game (except the CD-I ones and Triforce Heroes) and honestly I'd probably put PH and ST at the bottom.
Being at the bottom of the Zelda series is still a good place to be though.
The only reason I don’t like them is because I hate to use the stylus to control the characters. It’s just not very intuitive when you also need to constantly use the buttons.
The only reason I don’t like them is because I hate to use the stylus to control the characters. It’s just not very intuitive when you also need to constantly use the buttons.
It's not perfect but personally I didn't mind it that much, for me it was moreso that the games just felt like big swings and big misses. I appreciate that they tried though. I also feel PH is to...
It's not perfect but personally I didn't mind it that much, for me it was moreso that the games just felt like big swings and big misses. I appreciate that they tried though.
I also feel PH is to some degree a love it or hate it game. I personally think the Ocean King dungeon or wtf it was called was a huge whiff. Not only did it suck revisiting the same dungeon over and over, it also wasn't interesting the first time. It had less personality than... anywhere else in the game. PH got great reviews when it came out, and I struggle to understand why. I think part of it is that it was just really impressive to finally see a 3D handheld Zelda.
Those two games aren't ones I would ever care to revisit honestly. And I'm saying this as a big Zelda fan. Someone else brought up ALBW and I enjoyed that MUCH more, I'd actually love to go back and replay it if I had the time.
I absolutely have a soft spot for spirit tracks and phantom hourglass. But I never really find other people who have played them. Which is a shame. And then the 3DS with a link between worlds is...
I absolutely have a soft spot for spirit tracks and phantom hourglass. But I never really find other people who have played them. Which is a shame. And then the 3DS with a link between worlds is one of my favorites of them all. I wish I could play them on the switch.
The DS (along with the PSP) is easily one of my favorite handhelds of all time and one that I fairly regularly go back to using my 3DS. The games just often felt so damn experimental, with third...
The DS (along with the PSP) is easily one of my favorite handhelds of all time and one that I fairly regularly go back to using my 3DS. The games just often felt so damn experimental, with third parties often doing weird stuff just to see what works; I'm not always a fan of having to use the touchscreen, but I appreciate the weird gameplay mechanics it can lend itself to when it's done well. One of my absolute favorites on the system has to be Orcs & Elves designed by none other than the great John Carmack; it's one that I've been meaning to go back to and play again, as it's been probably 10 years since I played it.
As per this Destructoid list, I'm pretty happy with their selections, which are pretty varied and interesting. So many lists like these tend to put Pokemon after Pokemon, Mario after Mario, which just feels damn boring to me. Much as I do like some classic Mario, I am just largely not a fan of a lot of Nintendo's newer games; the 3DS in particular, while it has some great games, is often just a pure Nintendo machine and feels like it lost a lot of what made the DS special with all the weird third party games that it had.
Hands down, this was probably one of the best handheld systems ever. Not only was it perfectly sized and it had such a huge catalog of games, the DS made it so easy to meet up with friends and...
Hands down, this was probably one of the best handheld systems ever. Not only was it perfectly sized and it had such a huge catalog of games, the DS made it so easy to meet up with friends and quickly connect to play Tetris, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, etc. Such an amazing little system. Also, the battery lasts forever.
DS Lite was the best designed and built gaming system I ever owned. Some things I think I'd put on this list: Advance Wars: Days of Ruin Civ: Revolutions Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon Zelda: Spirit...
DS Lite was the best designed and built gaming system I ever owned.
Some things I think I'd put on this list:
Advance Wars: Days of Ruin
Civ: Revolutions
Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon
Zelda: Spirit Tracks
Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes
I got weirdly addicted to Shadow Dragon, which was, uh, interesting since it was by far the worst game in the series I'd played to that point. But if you really like it you absolutely should play...
I got weirdly addicted to Shadow Dragon, which was, uh, interesting since it was by far the worst game in the series I'd played to that point. But if you really like it you absolutely should play its sequel New Mystery of the Emblem (12). It feels a lot better to play, the growth rates are way more balanced (no more Wolf and Sedgar shenanigans though lol) and it doesn't have the wildly idiotic gaiden chapter requirements.
Good list, but would also like to add Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey from 2009-2010. Better than Devil Survivor and one of my all time favourite games maybe ever, not just on the DS.
Good list, but would also like to add Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey from 2009-2010. Better than Devil Survivor and one of my all time favourite games maybe ever, not just on the DS.
Agreed. I think if I was making this list it would actually be quite significantly different than this. I don't feel like making an ordered list, but from destructoid's choices, the following can...
Agreed. I think if I was making this list it would actually be quite significantly different than this.
I don't feel like making an ordered list, but from destructoid's choices, the following can stay:
Dragon Quest IX
Phoenix Wright
The World Ends with You
I would swap WarioWare D.I.Y. for Touched!. Yes WWT doesn't represent the things that they chose D.I.Y. for, but if I was trying to make this like a shopping list for a new DS owner, Touched! may be less creatively interactive but it's the better more curated developer-intentional experience and the best traditional type warioware game full stop, in my opinion.
I would swap Pokemon HG/SS for Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. I like HG/SS a lot but it just makes more sense to me to prioritize what was a new to DS title. I'm not against remakes or ports though and there's plenty of interesting ones on the DS, as seen at end of comment.
I would probably put the following on my list as well:
Mario Kart DS
Animal Crossing Wild World
Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Ghost Trick
Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Rhythm Heaven
Advance Wars: Dual Strike
That makes 12, and if this is supposed to be a top 15 list, well there are at least a few titles on destructoid's list that I haven't played, and I'm grasping at straws a bit for 3 more titles of my own I'd add, so I guess there could be room to like, try out 999 or Meteos or Castlevania DS titles and keep those in the list as well, but without having played them I'm left kind of neutral and looking at the rest of the DS library, there's things I liked but feel a bit too flawed anyway, like Kirby Canvas Curse (I would prefer Super Star Ultra but it comes with the same issue as HG/SS and CT down below)
Chrono Trigger Footnote:
I wouldn't make a space for it on a best of DS list since it's such a straightforward port and feels like it would be more appropriate for a SNES best-of, imagine if these "greatest game ever" (please understand my hyperbole here, it's a shorthand for how hyped and praised certain titles get, including CT) type titles could just be ported forward to every single platform for eternity and consequently top every platform's best-of lists forever. It's still worth mentioning though in a "DS-shopping-list" context, because the DS version could be considered definitive, as it plays great and has fantastic presentation on DS and includes the animated cutscenes and bonus content from the PS1 version without disc loading times.
Anyway, was a fun thought exercise if anything. DS library is pretty weird honestly, a decent amount of great titles and then a lot of like, fun but flawed stuff, and then a whole bunch of junk.
I think HG/SS wins out over D/P/Pt because of just how complete a package it was (similarly, I think ORAS was the best game of the 3ds generation). Some of those features came to platinum, but...
I would swap Pokemon HG/SS for Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. I like HG/SS a lot but it just makes more sense to me to prioritize what was a new to DS title. I'm not against remakes or ports though and there's plenty of interesting ones on the DS, as seen at end of comment.
I think HG/SS wins out over D/P/Pt because of just how complete a package it was (similarly, I think ORAS was the best game of the 3ds generation). Some of those features came to platinum, but even just things like the improvements to UX in HG/SS which sadly got dropped as a B team project for B/W were nice, and there was a lot of content in HG/SS.
HG/SS is peak Pokémon IMO. I also enjoyed ORAS, but I was beginning to lose interest in the series, and I think that something was definitely lost when they switched from 2D to 3D.
HG/SS is peak Pokémon IMO. I also enjoyed ORAS, but I was beginning to lose interest in the series, and I think that something was definitely lost when they switched from 2D to 3D.
Diamond Pearl and Platinum predate HG/SS, so I look at it the other way around. D/P/Pt set up a sort of "engine" or look and feel and feature set for what DS Pokemon would be, and HG/SS felt to me...
Some of those features came to platinum
Diamond Pearl and Platinum predate HG/SS, so I look at it the other way around. D/P/Pt set up a sort of "engine" or look and feel and feature set for what DS Pokemon would be, and HG/SS felt to me like it was based on that groundwork, with some improvements like you mentioned.
You might mean some of those features that HG/SS have over D/P are in Pt over base D/P though, not 100% sure if I can remember what specifically if it's ux stuff, been a while since I played them through. D/P/Pt are not my favorite Pokemon games, they're just my favorite DS Pokemon games.
Honestly, it's nice to see stuff other than these titles; no shade, but I feel like these are all pretty rote at this point, so it's nice to see some choices that differ from the usual. Not that...
Mario Kart DS
Animal Crossing Wild World
Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Ghost Trick
Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Rhythm Heaven
Advance Wars: Dual Strike
Honestly, it's nice to see stuff other than these titles; no shade, but I feel like these are all pretty rote at this point, so it's nice to see some choices that differ from the usual.
Not that they're bad games, just that they appear on every top ten and there's so much more out there for the DS than these titles.
Fair enough, and I saw your other comment elsewhere in the thread saying something like that too. No shade in turn, but you see them all the time because they're actually among the best titles on...
Fair enough, and I saw your other comment elsewhere in the thread saying something like that too.
No shade in turn, but you see them all the time because they're actually among the best titles on the system.
Not saying other stuff out there on DS isn't fantastic and I haven't played everything so of course there's more to discover, but the way I see it, that's just how these things go sometimes
Not every good game is popular, and not every popular game is good, but there's a reason that well after a console is old and the marketing has all long since run it's course, certain titles rise to the top - usually the ones everyone had and loved are the big popular hits, and the ones that not many people had but were super good anyway get some word of mouth traction and become the "cult" hits.
I think WarioWare DIY vs Touched is a bit of a mixed comparison. Are we talking about a choice in 2023? Then Touched sits on more even ground. But when they were current and had online features...
I think WarioWare DIY vs Touched is a bit of a mixed comparison. Are we talking about a choice in 2023? Then Touched sits on more even ground. But when they were current and had online features DIY benefitted enormously from that.
I would also say that AC Wild World is a bit of a mixed pick because City Folk was basically "Wild World but it's prettier with some extras on Wii". If you specifically want the game on handheld then WW makes sense. But it's just kind of a superior version in City Folk.
Also, HG/SS are quite good and Diamond/Pearl/Platinum are stinky. That's my hot take as an old fogey. DPP is actually my least favorite of all the mainline Pokemon games. I know a lot of people got their start with that one though since it was the first on the DS (not sure if that was the case for you, I get the impression you're older than that but maybe not).
I also love Rhythm Heaven but I don't know that I could ever say it's one of the best on the system. It IS a must play though.
Well a bit of both, of course today DIY is a harder sell, I don't know but I doubt it got the Mario Kart Wii treatment where fans made custom servers that players can connect to even today, but...
I think WarioWare DIY vs Touched is a bit of a mixed comparison. Are we talking about a choice in 2023? Then Touched sits on more even ground. But when they were current and had online features DIY benefitted enormously from that.
Well a bit of both, of course today DIY is a harder sell, I don't know but I doubt it got the Mario Kart Wii treatment where fans made custom servers that players can connect to even today, but ultimately for me it's still my preference in their time as well.
It's kind of like the Mario Maker issue, the creation tools are awesome and people do make some pretty cool things but there are limitations to what can be done that aren't in play when a developer is creating bespoke content for a non-user generated content game.
For a more current example, the kind of stuff we see in Super Mario Bros. Wonder's trailer vs. what can be done in Super Mario Maker 1 or 2 - both have value (SMM custom levels for example in the spirit of SMW romhacks offer far more difficult content than Nintendo's levels, if you seek that) and both have limitations.
It just so happens to be that in my case when I put those two things on the scales, it weighs in favor of well designed developer created content for me. In the case of WarioWare D.I.Y. even the included developer content was made with the game's creative tools and was subject to their limitations as well. Basically, D.I.Y. is creative and interesting and cool, but Touched! is just a more solid and cohesive experience to keep going back to in the long run for me.
I would also say that AC Wild World is a bit of a mixed pick because City Folk was basically "Wild World but it's prettier with some extras on Wii". If you specifically want the game on handheld then WW makes sense. But it's just kind of a superior version in City Folk.
That's fair, but City Folk came out 3 years later, so in it's era Wild World was not in competition with it. In terms of going back today, you're right that it just depends on what hardware somebody is shopping for, for whatever reasons as you outlined. I also think Wild World was a bigger step from AC on Gamecube than any other AC release has been from it's predecessor since, except maybe New Horizons. For what it did, I consider Wild World influential within it's franchise.
I know a lot of people got their start with that one though since it was the first on the DS (not sure if that was the case for you, I get the impression you're older than that but maybe not).
You're right that I'm older than that, but financial constraints affected my Pokemon experience. I did not have a Game Boy or GBC, so my first Pokemon game was Ruby, actually. While my school friends were playing R/B/Y and then G/S/C I was playing the TCG and watching the anime. I did go through the childhood experience of the original 151 being all there was for a while, and then gen 2 dropped, etc. via these other media but wasn't able to play the games until 3rd gen. Diamond/Pearl/Plat are not my favorite Pokemon games, just my favorite DS Pokemon games.
It kind of was, though, given that City Folk came out in 2008 and the DS was still the current Nintendo handheld until 2011 (and New Leaf didn't come out until 2013). I had both admittedly, but if...
That's fair, but City Folk came out 3 years later, so in it's era Wild World was not in competition with it
It kind of was, though, given that City Folk came out in 2008 and the DS was still the current Nintendo handheld until 2011 (and New Leaf didn't come out until 2013). I had both admittedly, but if I had bought a DS later in the generation I wouldn't have bothered with Wild World. I only have it because I bought it when it came out. The biggest criticism of City Folk, and why fewer people bought it on Wii, was that it was basically WW with the biggest added thing being nicer graphics on the TV (for me that was enough, at least to buy it on sale).
Diamond/Pearl/Plat are not my favorite Pokemon games, just my favorite DS Pokemon games.
Different strokes... GSC is my all time favorite, I enjoyed HG/SS but seemingly not as much as some others did. DPP weren't my thing at all. BUT, I actually really enjoyed B/W and B2/W2 and they're up there as some of my favorites as well.
Honestly part of it is that Diamond/Pearl were abysmally slow in battles for some reason, and Platinum upped the speed but not nearly enough. It felt like sludge. I just didn't enjoy most of the new Pokemon or the world or any of it (and I'm not normally a "all new gen pokemon suck" type, I remember people dunking on Trubbish for being a literal garbage Pokemon and it's one of my favorites).
I never had City Folk so this might be nostalgia talking, but I feel like the Animal Crossing format shines on a handheld. The "play at least a little every day" routine works so well witj...
If you specifically want the game on handheld then WW makes sense.
I never had City Folk so this might be nostalgia talking, but I feel like the Animal Crossing format shines on a handheld. The "play at least a little every day" routine works so well witj something you carry with you as opposed to a console that's stuck to your TV.
I agree to some extent. The real answer is it's perfect for a hybrid console where you have both options. I put more time into ACNH than any previous AC game and I've played them all - and I think...
I agree to some extent. The real answer is it's perfect for a hybrid console where you have both options. I put more time into ACNH than any previous AC game and I've played them all - and I think that was one reason (the other being that this was the first time my wife ever played one and she got really into it, moreso than me even).
It's a game that is nice to play idly/casually while you watch TV or something like that as well. But it's also nice to be able to play on the big screen. City Folk also controlled well with the Wiimote imo.
I probably played more New Horizons than any others but that was more because I sunk into mid-pandemic depression than anything else lol My best memories of Animal Crossing are from when I played...
I probably played more New Horizons than any others but that was more because I sunk into mid-pandemic depression than anything else lol
My best memories of Animal Crossing are from when I played Wild World and New Leaf as a kid, so I'll definitely admit that my life stage when they came out probably also influences my perception there. I'd probably feel differently about City Folk if we'd ever gotten it.
Have you ever played Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time? Big DS-game feeling on that one, lol, but it's an awesome game. Maybe you'll like it considering you played BIS.
Have you ever played Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time?
Big DS-game feeling on that one, lol, but it's an awesome game. Maybe you'll like it considering you played BIS.
The problem with this one, and also Mario Kart to some extent, is that the sequel on the 3DS (or Switch) is miles better and still fully functioning. I went back to play WW recently, and it is...
Animal Crossing Wild World
The problem with this one, and also Mario Kart to some extent, is that the sequel on the 3DS (or Switch) is miles better and still fully functioning. I went back to play WW recently, and it is pretty janky. Bad frame rate, blocky graphics... but the core game is basically the same as New Leaf. There are a few unique things in WW, and back in the day I really enjoyed it, but now? It's tough to play. Also you lose the online features that no longer work in any way - the DS only supports WEP.
Mario Kart has unique tracks I suppose, and it is still a fun game, but technology marched on and left those games behind.
Radiant Historia is another one I'd add to the list. Instant classic when it came out on the DS, but I'd play the 3DS remake first nowadays. It is basically the same game with a slightly larger viewing area and a few quality of life improvements.
I don't really know what to tell you, if you would rather play a newer iteration of a title in a franchise that hasn't changed much cause it's prettier, more polished, or still has working online...
I don't really know what to tell you, if you would rather play a newer iteration of a title in a franchise that hasn't changed much cause it's prettier, more polished, or still has working online features then yeah I hear you there's not much persuading that can be done against that mindset, it all comes down to whether we're trying to decide what the best DS games were or what the best DS games are for a new collector today.
I know I've been wishy washy throughout the thread about which way I'm looking at it, so maybe it's my fault, but that's because I'm trying to weigh both.
The latter viewpoint of what to shop for today makes some sense if the person has the option of 3DS around and is trying to decide what to buy right now, but from the perspective of just answering what I think were the best titles on the DS, I'm not down for witholding a title from the list of the greatest DS games just because the 3DS entry is too similar.
It's unfair to the DS entry in the context of a list of the best DS games that doesn't include newer platforms anyway. To me, that decision between the DS title and the newer entry on a different platform isn't mine to make if I'm just making a DS best-of, it's just out of scope. It belongs more in a context like "what's the best AC/Mario Kart game?" or "I never played AC/MK, where do I start?"
Like I said to another user who expressed they prefer City Folk, in my opinion Wild World was the biggest change in the franchise overall from it's predecessor until we get to New Horizons coming out of New Leaf, and to me that means Wild World was very influential on its successors, it doesn't make sense to me to sort of "punish" that with omission from the list.
In Mario Kart DS' case I'd argue it further, as game feel is tremendously important to me in the franchise and 7 has a very weird feeling to me that isn't quite right despite how easy it is to abuse DS' systems with the snaking tech. Also Mario Kart games all have different track selections and stuff too that means to me a newer game isn't automatically a comprehensive replacement for a previous one in this series depending on the tracks I want to play.
In terms of its legacy the questions I ask myself about Mario Kart DS would be what tracks did Mario Kart DS give the franchise? (for the legacy cups in the future) and what tracks did it have for itself, that aren't in later games? (i.e. how fun is it to go back to for its own sake?) How have these tracks changed to adjust to mechanics of newer Mario Kart games they appeared in? (Some change significantly, is it better, worse, or just different in a way that's still worth experiencing the original design?)
These nuances in game feel, mechanics, and content have a lot to do with why people favor certain titles. There's a very good reason so many people love to speedrun Super Mario 64, and didn't abandon the game to speedrun the newest 3D Mario, Odyssey instead, and generally speaking a different community runs the latter.
Yeah the two games are more different than Kart but I bet different names appear between the MKDS and MK7 speedrun leaderboards too. Even something like Wind Waker vs. WWHD. And speedrunning is just one mode of play with its own set of reasonings.
To me, MKDS is one of the best Mario Kart games ever, in spite of the existence of newer Mario Kart games, and I overall like every entry in the series except SNES and Super Circuit. (issue interpreting the visual in my case)
In the case of 3DS Radiant Historia, it comes down to how transformative a remake or port is. It's kind of like what I said about the Chrono Trigger port. Having not played Radiant Historia, I can't rank or include it, but if I wanted to, I'd put it on a best of DS list with a note about the 3DS version rather than putting Perfect Chronology on a best of 3DS list to take a spot away from 3DS-native titles. I love Chrono Trigger, and I view it as one of the best SNES games - playing the DS port, to me, is playing one of the best SNES games on the DS, it feels unfair to DS games to let it be one of the best DS games for free like that. It's how I'd treat ports and remakes overall unless they're super transformative or deviated from original like FF7 Remake.
I hope my reasoning makes sense. It's not to say you're wrong or anything for feeling the way you do, it's just that my purpose here is more mixed, favors treating the platform as a bit of a closed bubble, favors keeping historical entries in a franchise relevant and respected, and favors keeping ports and remakes listed with their original platforms. It's just a different set of priorities.
I personally would've added Tony Hawk's American Sk8land to the list too. In some ways it's a heavily bastardized handheld version of American Wasteland with fewer (and shorter) songs, less...
I personally would've added Tony Hawk's American Sk8land to the list too.
In some ways it's a heavily bastardized handheld version of American Wasteland with fewer (and shorter) songs, less stages, a heavily toned-down story and a practically nonexistent Create-A-Park feature which just involved you adding six custom features to the warehouse level, but it was an incredibly impressive feat to add a game even remotely as feature-rich as THPS2 on the DS hardware for its time. Including Alcatraz from THPS4 additionally felt like a neat bonus which actually fit into the game's LA theme.
Also, unlike its larger sister-game, American Sk8land didn't have its hype tarnished by poor marketing decisions, like promising 'no loading screens' when the first thing you see when you boot up the game is a fucking loading screen, nor touting the ability to play the game on both skateboard and BMX when you had a far more limited moveset and couldn't progress at all through missions while riding one.
For anyone thinking of playing 999, PLEASE play it in the original DS format and look up as little as you can. I'm glad they released it for the PC since the series deserves a new audience, but...
For anyone thinking of playing 999, PLEASE play it in the original DS format and look up as little as you can. I'm glad they released it for the PC since the series deserves a new audience, but there's a particular piece of the DS version which gets missed in the process of being removed from the system and it's unfortunate. It's a nearly perfect visual novel and IMO the best implementation of Uchikoshi's brand of fiction.
Speaking of, I appreciate a lot of these games are great because they really played well with the console and not in spite of it... Except Dawn of Sorrow, which totally plays better if you just patch out the touch elements.
Oh god can you reply with what's missing in spoiler text? I've watched someone else play 999 when I was younger so I know the major plot twist(s) already, and I recently bought the PC collection...
Oh god can you reply with what's missing in spoiler text? I've watched someone else play 999 when I was younger so I know the major plot twist(s) already, and I recently bought the PC collection out of nostalgia so I'm curious what gets left out.
Enormous SPOILERS for 999! (go play 999 first!) When Santa points out that Junpei knows things he's not supposed to, Akane reveals she's the narrator. But in the DS version, all of the...
Enormous SPOILERS for 999!
(go play 999 first!)
When Santa points out that Junpei knows things he's not supposed to, Akane reveals she's the narrator. But in the DS version, all of the conversations have already been happening on the top screen and the narration separately occurs on the bottom screen - and then the flashback happens on the bottom screen. So you watching both Akane and Junpei's perspective the entire time simultaneously. Then when the Sudoku puzzle comes up the screens flip - because Junpei is shifting info back to Akane - and you have to turn the DS upside-down. I like that it implies you're a sort of conduit for the story too, it goes along with Uchikoshi's other work. Not a huge bummer if you missed out, it's still a great story! But it's icing on the cake and I push for people to get the full experience.
Also my favorite handheld. The DS Lite is the very first console I bought myself with money earned at the end of a summer job. Tons of incredible games, many with excellent and original ideas that...
Also my favorite handheld. The DS Lite is the very first console I bought myself with money earned at the end of a summer job. Tons of incredible games, many with excellent and original ideas that use the 2 screens.
I'd also like to recommend one of my favorite games: Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime.
Rocket Slime stars the common enemy and mascot of the series, a Slime, this one in particular being named Rocket (Surarin in the Japanese version). Rocket lives in a town called Boingburg, inhabited by other Slimes, each one being a type of Slime species found in the series. There are no humans in Rocket Slime; instead, its world is inhabited by Slimes and other enemies from the series. It features two forms of gameplay; the first being an overhead style, where the player maneuvers Rocket around a variety of stages, and another where the Schleiman Tank must do battle against an opposing tank, firing ammunition found throughout the first portion of the game.
Oh great choice! I forgot about this one. I started it but never finished it, I'll have to make sure to get back to it, but my 3DS battery stopped holding a charge and began to swell so until I...
Oh great choice! I forgot about this one. I started it but never finished it, I'll have to make sure to get back to it, but my 3DS battery stopped holding a charge and began to swell so until I order a replacement, I can't use it.
Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime really is an understated game and just such a fun experience. Rather sad though that its prequel and sequel weren’t localised as they look like great games in...
Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime really is an understated game and just such a fun experience.
Rather sad though that its prequel and sequel weren’t localised as they look like great games in their own right as well. Hoping one day they might get the bundle remake treatment or maybe a release on a future virtual console as it would be such a shame if western audiences were to miss out completely especially considering how well square Enix have been with bringing many of the other DQ games including spin-offs overseas.
Really feels like the author of this list chose some of the most obscure crap to drive controversy and clicks. I mean I can understand Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver (phenomenal Gen 2 remakes),...
Really feels like the author of this list chose some of the most obscure crap to drive controversy and clicks.
I mean I can understand Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver (phenomenal Gen 2 remakes), Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow and even a Phoenix Wright game making the list, but there are some games that nobody has ever heard of and for good reason making the cut, while beating other gems off the list. It feels like a crime that no Mario games made the list despite the DS having some absolute bangers in the Mario series come out. Where's New Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart DS?
A good example of what I mean by 'obscure crap' is Elite Beat Agents, which ranked at #6 yet was so horrifically mid that it never sold well nor garnered a sequel. Even Ouendan (the short-lived Japan-exclusive series it was based on) got a sequel in its home country and actually got some pretty big songs in the second game. EBA's problem was a soundtrack filled with really poor covers, a premise which translated incredibly poorly to the American market, a cast of characters which were either far too cringey to appeal to a Western audience or were locked behind the game's hardest difficulty, and some horrific difficulty spikes presented by the last two stages. Without A Fight and Jumpin' Jack Flash had some incredibly difficult charts which would punish you with immediate failure for even small mistakes, which made getting past Sweatin' difficulty nearly impossible without countless hours of practice.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Nintendo revisit Elite Beat Agents and maybe consider reviving it as a mobile game. It could actually work really well on smartphones/tablets due to their touchscreen nature, especially if the cost of purchasing playable songs as DLC covers the cost of licensing the original tracks and not paying bargain-bin prices for crappy covers.
Then there are games which were kinda mainstream but weren't that good. Dragon Quest IX is another good example. The game really suffered from having you play a custom character as the main protagonist and just felt like a generic JRPG, of which the Nintendo DS had many far better examples. Even Final Fantasy III, a game marred with so many instant Game Over booby-traps that it becomes un-fun, was better than DQIX.
I couldn’t disagree with you more! Elite Beat Agents is one of the most influential rhythm games of all time! If you look at the rhythm games that have come out of arcades since, a huge number of...
I couldn’t disagree with you more! Elite Beat Agents is one of the most influential rhythm games of all time! If you look at the rhythm games that have come out of arcades since, a huge number of them copy the tap-the-target mechanic. The game was so good that it caused a huge number of people to import (or perhaps more realistically pirate) copies of the two Japanese games.
And beyond that, Elite Beat Agents is perhaps the most intense localization effort ever made; I can’t think of a single game which goes to the extreme of licensing much more expensive local music to replace the original songs. While some DDR releases did have regional exclusive songs, EBA replaced the entire song selection! It’s more accurate to call EBA a spin-off of the Ouendan games.
Beyond that, the series still lives on in the form of a fan recreation called Osu!
While I would have put one of the original Japanese titles instead, this series absolutely belongs on this list.
If I were to criticize this list, I would be more upset at how over-represented puzzle games are.
Tap-the-target is probably the simplest and most intuitive control scheme for smartphones, which is why I stated that EBA/Ouendan would actually make for a phenomenal mobile reboot and would be in...
Tap-the-target is probably the simplest and most intuitive control scheme for smartphones, which is why I stated that EBA/Ouendan would actually make for a phenomenal mobile reboot and would be in Nintendo's best interests to pursue since their shareholders have a raging hard-on for mobile gaming right now. That being said, the only time I really saw their mechanics get copied ad verbatim in the same console generation was in Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, which had a combat system that required such inputs to execute attacks.
The game was so good that it caused a huge number of people to import (or perhaps more realistically pirate) copies of the two Japanese games.
As for piracy... there wouldn't have been much of a point to doing that. Playing touchscreen games on a PC with a DS emulator is a massive pain, especially when you didn't have tablets or other touchscreen devices that could emulate at the time. I cannot imagine anything worse than attempting the game's hardest songs with a mouse cursor when they were absolute gauntlets with far more intuitive stylus controls. Flash cartridges didn't really come onto the scene until 2008 onwards so it's not like you could have played a pirated copy on original hardware either.
It's also worth mentioning that DS and DS Lite systems are region-free, so you could've just gone on Playasia and imported physical copies of either Ouendan game for a reasonable price if you really wanted to play those games. And even then you're just playing a J-pop predecessor to EBA.
I don’t know why you think that DS piracy started in 2008. Piracy on the DS was a problem practically since it was first launched; the first flash cards to run DS software were GBA flash carts....
I don’t know why you think that DS piracy started in 2008. Piracy on the DS was a problem practically since it was first launched; the first flash cards to run DS software were GBA flash carts. One of the big ones was Supercard which was released before the DS did. There were “Slot 1” flash cards available that made it even easier since they required no exploits release by 2007 as far as my googling can find. I know this because I was playing the sequel within a week of it coming out.
This list is not a bad one. I loved the DS, especially the DS Lite. It was extremely easy to take with you, folding meant the screen could be kept safe, weighed damn near nothing. And the library...
This list is not a bad one. I loved the DS, especially the DS Lite. It was extremely easy to take with you, folding meant the screen could be kept safe, weighed damn near nothing. And the library had so many interesting titles. When flashcarts became more available, I got one and started trawling the internet for whatever things I could find, and ended up playing a bunch of fan-translated games.
Of the stuff released in NA, I really enjoyed Etrian Odyssey, Age of Empires: Mythologies, and Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia. Of the fan-translated stuff, the ones that stick out in my memory were Ni No Kuni and Soma Bringer. I have an archive of all of it stowed away on a drive and in a flashcart, sometimes I break out an old DSi and play around on it.
While the games themselves are solidly part of the collectibles market now (read: they're getting more expensive), it's very easy to obtain a system for not much money, especially if you're just going for one of the standard models. A flashcart is pretty easy to obtain and use, too, so I tend to recommend folks go that route and/or emulate stuff on a different portable if they're interested. I had Drastic set up on a Retroid Pocket II in a way that worked out really well - only one screen displays at a time, and you use a key combo to flip between top and bottom. Some games this doesn't work out well with, but for a lot of the games I like, it does. Worth looking into if you're curious, the DS is an awesome little system with a very robust library.
I am still upset that Nintendo didn’t localize Soma Bringer. I still don’t understand why they refuse to localize games they already own and have a guaranteed audience for.
I am still upset that Nintendo didn’t localize Soma Bringer. I still don’t understand why they refuse to localize games they already own and have a guaranteed audience for.
I'd like to mention Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky as well. It's my favourite game of all time (all platforms considered). In comparison to Platinum, which is also awesome, Explorers is...
I'd like to mention Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky as well. It's my favourite game of all time (all platforms considered).
In comparison to Platinum, which is also awesome, Explorers is not a main-line Pokémon game, but a heavily story-driven dungeon crawler with arguably the best OST in all DS games. It even has its own romhacks, which are far more advanced than what I saw in main-line Gen 4 modding.
The story writing/characters, music, gameplay and visuals are all phenomenal and the game is HUGE. The post(!)-game alone is really long. Additionally there are five bonus episodes too (in each you play as the other characters you meet in the game, like other exploration teams or guild members).
There's also Rescue Team Blue, but that's technically more a GBA title (Rescue Team Red is for GBA). Also nice, but doesn't include the quality of life changes from Sky. Still I love that title too! Lastly there's Gates to Infinity and Super Mystery Dungeon. Super is awesome and very nostalgic (you will think of your childhood A LOT). Gates is the black sheep of the series, rightfully so, but it's still a good game (especially the OST; the OST was one of the reasons I started getting enthusiastic about music, lol). For the Switch there's also Rescue Team DX – a remake of Rescue Team Red/Blue. Pretty well made and adorable, although the soundtrack is hit or miss.
For everyone who hasn't played it (Explorers of Sky) yet: Give it a chance. Enjoy it on a relaxing day at night in the comfort of your bed. If you can, do it on an actual DS. There's barely anything like it.
It’s nice to see Meteos on the list. I got a DSat launch, and was super in to the gaming community at the time (especially GameFAQs forums). The DS had absolutely terrible support at launch, you...
It’s nice to see Meteos on the list. I got a DSat launch, and was super in to the gaming community at the time (especially GameFAQs forums). The DS had absolutely terrible support at launch, you had a port of Mario64 and not much else. We were all desperate for games, really grasping for anything decent. I think there was some mediocre Yoshi game that got buzz? And a lot of people imported a Naruto platform we? Meteos was an oasis in the desert, a really good game that exploited the DS’s features.
I'm glad to see Henry Hatsworth getting a mention. That game is great and also incredibly hard, I never actually beat it. Glad to see Chinatown Wars on there too, I could play that drug dealing...
I'm glad to see Henry Hatsworth getting a mention. That game is great and also incredibly hard, I never actually beat it. Glad to see Chinatown Wars on there too, I could play that drug dealing minigame all day.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Trials and Tribulations was such a perfect game for the DS, I kinda wanna get one just to play it again. The game definitely works on PC, but I love the pixel...
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Trials and Tribulations was such a perfect game for the DS, I kinda wanna get one just to play it again. The game definitely works on PC, but I love the pixel graphics and the use it was a perfect game for the dual screen format.
Also got a 3DS port, if you've got one of them laying around. I go back to the series here and there with my 3DS; it's very comfortable to hold with one hand in bed and tap the screen with my thumb.
Also got a 3DS port, if you've got one of them laying around. I go back to the series here and there with my 3DS; it's very comfortable to hold with one hand in bed and tap the screen with my thumb.
Ah, Tetris DS. Some people in Tildes may recognize me for my obsession with Tetris. Tetris DS was my gateway drug for competitive Tetris, so I have a special relationship with it. So anyway: the...
Tetris DS
Ah, Tetris DS.
Some people in Tildes may recognize me for my obsession with Tetris.
Tetris DS was my gateway drug for competitive Tetris, so I have a special relationship with it.
So anyway: the article gives a pretty uninspired description of Tetris DS. Let me give you a more in-depth look at this game. And by this I mean of course a thorough review of the game, its mechanics, its scene, and the influence it had on me.
I'm recycling /adapting/translating the following from a writing challenge we had with some friends from a French message board. The goal was to write something about each favorite (not the best, the *favorite) game for each year between 2000 and 2010. Those words were for year 2006.
So strap it, get yourself comfortable and make a cup of your hot beverage of choice, because it's going to be a long one.
Also I'm putting this in expandables section so has to not drown the other conversations in my blockish ramblings.
The Tetris DS experience
Context: the DS
We are in 2006.
Despite its weak hardware (it's following the Gameboy footsteps no doubt), and an industrial design that's not a copycat from the late-00s Apple, the Nintendo DS is slowly but surely reaching a dominance over the Sony PSP
Looking at the game catalog from 2004 to 2006, we can already see how the DS is a console for everything and everyone. A true generalist console, like the PS1 was back in its day.
There are excellent gamer's game like Mario Kart DS, Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow, Meteos, Nanostray, Ouendan!, Ace Attorney, Trauma Center, so on an so forth.
There are licensed game that goes from "meh" to "pretty good (I'm thinking about Jump Super Star).
There are ports of the big license from the home console, with quality also varying (Need for Speed Most Wanted, Tomb Raider Legends).
There are experimental games that takes advantage of the touch screen (Pac Pix, Electroplankton).
And of course there are the occasional shovelware (Ping Pals, Horsez Imagine: Master Chef).
But it's with the huge success of Kawashima1 , and then of Nintendogs that Nintendo enters the casual market. I heavily suspect that the console redesign is at least in part due to this.
1: Sorry it's: "Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training: How Old Is Your Brain?" or even "Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day!" instead.
Why Tetris ?
So: we are in 2006, and more precisely we are between March and April.
Internet is astonished by the brightness of the then-Japan-only DS Lite2. I heavily suspect that Nintendo wanted to have a good killer app release at the same time as its new DS model. And for that, what better choice than THE killer app darling of the Game Boy ?
So, Tetris was born again3, and in a similar circumstance than his big brother the Game Boy.
3: Sidenote: I was wondering why Nintendo was tasked to be the main developer. The Tetris Company at the time had a policy of "one platform, one game", and THQ (infamous for the very meh Tetris Worlds and Tetris Elements) was the main caretaker at the time. I looked at the Game Developer (née Gamasutra) archive: there was indeed a legal dispute precisely because of this. It was settled out of court
What Tetris DS looks like, and what it contains
This is a Tetris that plays hard on the nostalgia part. There's an unbearably cute title screen where several classic Nintendo character appears in their 8-bit apparel and interact with tetraminoes. Mario hurl hammers at them, Samus blast them with lasers, DK throws them. Alot of UI element are directly lifted from the game (for instance the green pipes acting as the playfield border). Oh, and Sakurai must have been around, because there's some heavy reference to forgotten classics like Excite Bike, Balloon Fight and Devil World.
And there were plenty of solo and multiplayer modes.
On the solo side, we count 6 modes. Some are really creative like the "Push" mode. In there you battle against the AI while sharing the same playfield. In "Catch", you rotate the whole stack instead of the falling pieces. But some modes are less so. "Puzzle" can be brute forced. Mission is boring. And finally there's the obligatory "hey look we're using the touchscreen!" mode, called "Tower". It's very forgettable.
Standard mode and the Tetris Company Guidelines
And then there's the standard mode.
Did I told you about the Tetris Company ? It's the company that holds the Tetris IP. Pajitnov itself is a board member, but I think he's just there to receive the paycheck4.
One of the condition you have to respect in order to release a Tetris game is to follow some official guidelines. That include game mechanics (I think it's almost a complete game design document).
4: I absolutely don't blame him, I would probably do the same considering his situation
The problem with those mandatory game mechanics is that they are not all that well designed. I said this before and I'll say it again: the guidelines 5 makes for a bad single player game. And in the case of Tetris, I think that casual players can get bored once they learn about "the trick", and hardcore players cannot find a good challenge to try to overcome.
5: and to make matters even worse, as far as I know, it hasn't been updated significantly since 2005 (maybe some little modification in 2017-ish ?)
The "trick" (called "infinity") in question is this: mash the rotation button and then the active piece never locks. And more often than not, you can climb on your stack and wiggle your piece wherever by mashing the rotation buttons.
This is perhaps crystallized the max-out score (or lack thereof): the maximum score is 9999999. Nice and well. But: due to a bug (overflow I guess ?), the score won't be saved in memory unless you make it exactly to 9999999. Sounds impossible ? Not at all: by exploiting the infinity trick, and by the fact that pressing down slowly increment the score counter 1 by 1, it's very doable. At the time, teenage me found that so shocking he even made a crappy video about this6
6: random fun fact: Hikaru Utada, the idol pop singer (and, is a total Tetris nerd and she posted a screencap of her 9999999 in her blog. She's nerdy enough that Nintendo organized some promo event with her. I find that so adorable.
And thus, I find the single player of Tetris DS a bit lacking7.
7: of course I'm biased, being a Tetris the Grand Master player and all. I like this game so much that I made a video about it. Go have a look at it and comment on this thread.
But there's some interesting idea still. They were not pioneered by TDS, but that doesn't make them less mandatory. The hold mechanics is a good shield against unfavorable piece distribution and/or adding another strategical layer to multiplayer (more on that later). The so-called 7-bag piece distribution is far from perfect, but more uniform (by design) 8.
8: if you think me talking out about Tetris game design is nerdy, wait until you discover a sub-part of the Tetris community that's focused on piece distribution analysis ! This article gives a good overview of the main "randomizer" present in the various Tetris game over time, and shout-out to colour_thief for being a beautiful nerd
The guidelines and multiplayer
Now, a lot of those rules I don't like for single-player... works surprisingly well in multiplayer ! In some sort of Aikido-reversal, those perceived weaknesses now become strengths.
What happens is that the game design also favor speed, but unlike TGM it's an intrinsic speed -- the speed comes from the player, not the game. And this is perfect for multiplayer. It's like a fighting game: a duel between two or more player where the game system doesn't get in the way of the player. The games gives as much tool as possible to overcome the opponent; through active attack instead of loitering for a while and waiting for the other to top out naturally. It's player vs player instead of player vs game.
And so, the extreme mobility given by the infinity behavior and that button mashing I talk earlier on is no longer a weakness of game design, but an additional tool against an opponent. One that can save you from a delicate situation by trading some time for more survivability. It's similar from being knocked down in a versus fighting game.
And to continue with this analogy, since it's so easy to get your active piece wherever you want, the role of the holes in the stack becomes different. More often than not, it's not really a lapse of judgment, but a consequence of an offensive action.
It's as if as if the playfield was a vertical health bar. You trade blows by making several lines at once. This sends garbage lines and make the opponent health shrink. But the other one can do the same, and it's your responsibility to regen your health by making lines and clearing garbage.
To this effect, the kind of drop they chose is naturally a "hard" drop (the piece locks immediately, contrary to the TGM one where you have to perform a second move with the stick to lock it). There's an execution trade-off though: you have to careful where you piece is aligned, because a misdrop can have devastating consequence, just like you can punish a whiff in fighting games.
The hold mechanic is no longer just a defensive tool, but can be an offensive one as well by storing an I piece for instance. And in that particular case, there's a bonus (more garbage lines) for making back-to-back Tetris.
Would you believe me if I told you there were some special moves ? Because there are ! It's the infamous T-spin. This consists in exploiting the peculiarities of the guideline "wallkick" mechanic (you cannot do this in TGM because the wallkicks are way simpler) . With a careful construction, you can place a T piece in an unnatural positions. And if you happen to make a line, there can be a significant garbage bonus. Infamously, the "T-spin triple" sends more line than a Tetris.
But doing the preliminary block construction is very risky, because it's far from obvious. And while you're doing it you're weak to a swift counter-attack and a kick top-out. Most of the time is best if you do them in an ad-hoc manner. One thing I find interesting: by exploiting the fact that the randomizer is always give the same amount of pieces (only the order is scrambled), you can craft some opening move that guarantee a t-spin triple or two t-spins doubles.
I doubt all of this was intentional (there's zero mention of t-spins in the manual for instance), but the huge popularity of the game certainly trail blazed a solid competitive scene. In fact, most of the openers that are still used to this day were devised during that time.
The Tetris DS *multiplayer* experience
Now, I have nearly a thousand words on the game mechanics but nothing on the experience itself.
Tetris DS had two ways to play multiplayer: online and offline.
Offline had this super handy "Download Play" feature (or "game sharing" ? I don't remember the specific name). In short, you only needed only one game cart to play to full multiplayer game. They're not the first one to do this9</sum>, but probably the first one to do it via wifi. Anyway: you could link up to 8 console together. I haven't had much experience with that kind of game (although there's one memorable match I had once whereI managed to win a 1 vs 4 match; epic !), but I know that was a mainstay of various DS-centric meetup.
9</sum>: it's very similar to the "spawn installation" of early Blizzard games
I spent most of my time in the Online modes: there's 2-players, 4-players and Push versus.
Push is the same as in 1 player mode, except the opponent is of course a human. It's a test of speed, and curiously enough there's no provision against perfect clears. Granted, it's super rare (it happened to me exactly once) , but if you happen to clear the playfield of everything... the game simply go on forever, until one player disconnected.
2-player is a very pure experience, and probably similar to what people experienced with a link cable and two Game Boys back in the day.
But for me at the time, the real meat was in 4-players versus. Why ? Items ! It's like in Mario kart: as you play, you can get some special item to help you (like the star who gives you only I pieces for a few seconds) or hurt others (like the dreaded lightning bold). Offense or defense. Fortunately, there;s no rubber-banding mechanism like in Mario Kart. Small elitist anecdote: the mushroom item, which speed up the game considerably for a random opponent... isn't that much of a detriment to an experienced player. In some case it's even good for them, because they can play faster !
You could play with your friend online and customize some match. But no account ! You have to use those effing "friend codes". Those 3x4 digits long sequence were as painful to use as they sound like.
There was a clever system for tournament: since it was mostly a 1vs1 affair, you could very well start a 4-player versus with two spectators.
Most of the time I was playing against rando. There was a matchmaking system that worked a bit similarly to Elo: you start at level 5000, and you lose and gain points depending on the result of the match and the point delta between you and the opponents.
Now, unfortunately, those point were shared within all modes. So it's not possible to play a Serious Game (tm) of 1vs1 and then relax around whit a 4 players battle royale with items. Moreover, one frustration we had is that it's easy to lose point but hard to gain them; a single loss can be devastating.
But overall, I had excellent memories of this online mode. There were indeed some very tense duels, and it's really a shame that Nintendo didn't implement a system where you could add an opponent as friend or something similar.
An overview of who I played with (or wished I played with)
I had a rating that was between 6500 and 7100, which was medium-good. The very good players were between 7500 and 8000, and only a few gods could go over 8000.
This was also around the time when I joined Tetrisconcept (a message board centered around Tetris), and we all did what all gaming clan did by prefixing our handle with a "TC-" tag.
There were other tag, and one of the most feared was the TGM one. They were all TGM player. We now know for sure that TGM-HOLiC was for sure Jin8 (the one in the original TGM3 invisible Tetris viral video, and the first person to get the Gm grade in TGM3), and TGM-Arika was Ichiro Mihara, Arika vice-president They were somewhat famous enough that some copycat appeared (people with none of the skill nor the Arika connection), to a point where a parody clan (TCM, standing for "The Chicken Master") was created.
Some jealous cheaters were also using the TGM tag; I've met some of them. There were several types of cheater, and they were fortunately not numerous enough to ruin the game.
The worst of them were the one who disabled the loss flag. There was simply no way to beat them (they somehow cleared to playfield when they top out). The second one were way more interesting. It's the one who were in a perpetual state of star item, nothing more, nothing less. And that's also means that it's still possible to beat them ! If the cheater fills its screen with blocks, it's very possible to beat them with a well timed attack. Humiliating a cheater by doing this is extremely gratifying feeling (many thanks to "Lucky-☆" for losing to me). The last type of cheater were mostly invisible, as they deactivated losing rating points (why wasn't there some server side validation I don't know). But at that level they probably get crushed very quickly by the legit top100 players.
And speaking of leaderboard, I have to mention blockstats.org. It's a website that regularly crawled the leaderboard (they were publised online at the time) so that you could find your real place in the global leaderboard, and track your progress. You could also blog and there even was an IRC channel, where you could play again some of those 7500+ (hi Caithness !).
Conclusion
So yeah, Tetris DS was kind of a big deal for me. It's a game that was with me during that transition between high-schooler and college student, and most important of all made me discover competitive Tetris, TGM, and by extension the arcade game experience (quite hard to have when the last arcade in the city closed down 3 years prior).
That's a nice list but when is the zeitgeist going to come around on the DS Zeldas? I love those two and think they get somewhat unfairly dog piled on.
I didn't play them when they were current because I didn't have a DS. Just personal opinion but I don't think the zeitgeist is gonna come around on them because they aren't all that great. They're not bas games, but I've played almost every Zelda game (except the CD-I ones and Triforce Heroes) and honestly I'd probably put PH and ST at the bottom.
Being at the bottom of the Zelda series is still a good place to be though.
The only reason I don’t like them is because I hate to use the stylus to control the characters. It’s just not very intuitive when you also need to constantly use the buttons.
It's not perfect but personally I didn't mind it that much, for me it was moreso that the games just felt like big swings and big misses. I appreciate that they tried though.
I also feel PH is to some degree a love it or hate it game. I personally think the Ocean King dungeon or wtf it was called was a huge whiff. Not only did it suck revisiting the same dungeon over and over, it also wasn't interesting the first time. It had less personality than... anywhere else in the game. PH got great reviews when it came out, and I struggle to understand why. I think part of it is that it was just really impressive to finally see a 3D handheld Zelda.
Those two games aren't ones I would ever care to revisit honestly. And I'm saying this as a big Zelda fan. Someone else brought up ALBW and I enjoyed that MUCH more, I'd actually love to go back and replay it if I had the time.
I absolutely have a soft spot for spirit tracks and phantom hourglass. But I never really find other people who have played them. Which is a shame. And then the 3DS with a link between worlds is one of my favorites of them all. I wish I could play them on the switch.
The DS (along with the PSP) is easily one of my favorite handhelds of all time and one that I fairly regularly go back to using my 3DS. The games just often felt so damn experimental, with third parties often doing weird stuff just to see what works; I'm not always a fan of having to use the touchscreen, but I appreciate the weird gameplay mechanics it can lend itself to when it's done well. One of my absolute favorites on the system has to be Orcs & Elves designed by none other than the great John Carmack; it's one that I've been meaning to go back to and play again, as it's been probably 10 years since I played it.
As per this Destructoid list, I'm pretty happy with their selections, which are pretty varied and interesting. So many lists like these tend to put Pokemon after Pokemon, Mario after Mario, which just feels damn boring to me. Much as I do like some classic Mario, I am just largely not a fan of a lot of Nintendo's newer games; the 3DS in particular, while it has some great games, is often just a pure Nintendo machine and feels like it lost a lot of what made the DS special with all the weird third party games that it had.
Hands down, this was probably one of the best handheld systems ever. Not only was it perfectly sized and it had such a huge catalog of games, the DS made it so easy to meet up with friends and quickly connect to play Tetris, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, etc. Such an amazing little system. Also, the battery lasts forever.
DS Lite was the best designed and built gaming system I ever owned.
Some things I think I'd put on this list:
Advance Wars: Days of Ruin
Civ: Revolutions
Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon
Zelda: Spirit Tracks
Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes
I got weirdly addicted to Shadow Dragon, which was, uh, interesting since it was by far the worst game in the series I'd played to that point. But if you really like it you absolutely should play its sequel New Mystery of the Emblem (12). It feels a lot better to play, the growth rates are way more balanced (no more Wolf and Sedgar shenanigans though lol) and it doesn't have the wildly idiotic gaiden chapter requirements.
Good list, but would also like to add Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey from 2009-2010. Better than Devil Survivor and one of my all time favourite games maybe ever, not just on the DS.
Agreed. I think if I was making this list it would actually be quite significantly different than this.
I don't feel like making an ordered list, but from destructoid's choices, the following can stay:
Dragon Quest IX
Phoenix Wright
The World Ends with You
I would swap WarioWare D.I.Y. for Touched!. Yes WWT doesn't represent the things that they chose D.I.Y. for, but if I was trying to make this like a shopping list for a new DS owner, Touched! may be less creatively interactive but it's the better more curated developer-intentional experience and the best traditional type warioware game full stop, in my opinion.
I would swap Pokemon HG/SS for Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. I like HG/SS a lot but it just makes more sense to me to prioritize what was a new to DS title. I'm not against remakes or ports though and there's plenty of interesting ones on the DS, as seen at end of comment.
I would probably put the following on my list as well:
Mario Kart DS
Animal Crossing Wild World
Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Ghost Trick
Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Rhythm Heaven
Advance Wars: Dual Strike
That makes 12, and if this is supposed to be a top 15 list, well there are at least a few titles on destructoid's list that I haven't played, and I'm grasping at straws a bit for 3 more titles of my own I'd add, so I guess there could be room to like, try out 999 or Meteos or Castlevania DS titles and keep those in the list as well, but without having played them I'm left kind of neutral and looking at the rest of the DS library, there's things I liked but feel a bit too flawed anyway, like Kirby Canvas Curse (I would prefer Super Star Ultra but it comes with the same issue as HG/SS and CT down below)
Chrono Trigger Footnote:
I wouldn't make a space for it on a best of DS list since it's such a straightforward port and feels like it would be more appropriate for a SNES best-of, imagine if these "greatest game ever" (please understand my hyperbole here, it's a shorthand for how hyped and praised certain titles get, including CT) type titles could just be ported forward to every single platform for eternity and consequently top every platform's best-of lists forever. It's still worth mentioning though in a "DS-shopping-list" context, because the DS version could be considered definitive, as it plays great and has fantastic presentation on DS and includes the animated cutscenes and bonus content from the PS1 version without disc loading times.
Anyway, was a fun thought exercise if anything. DS library is pretty weird honestly, a decent amount of great titles and then a lot of like, fun but flawed stuff, and then a whole bunch of junk.
Sorry for a million edits I'm done now.
I think HG/SS wins out over D/P/Pt because of just how complete a package it was (similarly, I think ORAS was the best game of the 3ds generation). Some of those features came to platinum, but even just things like the improvements to UX in HG/SS which sadly got dropped as a B team project for B/W were nice, and there was a lot of content in HG/SS.
HG/SS is peak Pokémon IMO. I also enjoyed ORAS, but I was beginning to lose interest in the series, and I think that something was definitely lost when they switched from 2D to 3D.
Diamond Pearl and Platinum predate HG/SS, so I look at it the other way around. D/P/Pt set up a sort of "engine" or look and feel and feature set for what DS Pokemon would be, and HG/SS felt to me like it was based on that groundwork, with some improvements like you mentioned.
You might mean some of those features that HG/SS have over D/P are in Pt over base D/P though, not 100% sure if I can remember what specifically if it's ux stuff, been a while since I played them through. D/P/Pt are not my favorite Pokemon games, they're just my favorite DS Pokemon games.
Honestly, it's nice to see stuff other than these titles; no shade, but I feel like these are all pretty rote at this point, so it's nice to see some choices that differ from the usual.
Not that they're bad games, just that they appear on every top ten and there's so much more out there for the DS than these titles.
Fair enough, and I saw your other comment elsewhere in the thread saying something like that too.
No shade in turn, but you see them all the time because they're actually among the best titles on the system.
Not saying other stuff out there on DS isn't fantastic and I haven't played everything so of course there's more to discover, but the way I see it, that's just how these things go sometimes
Not every good game is popular, and not every popular game is good, but there's a reason that well after a console is old and the marketing has all long since run it's course, certain titles rise to the top - usually the ones everyone had and loved are the big popular hits, and the ones that not many people had but were super good anyway get some word of mouth traction and become the "cult" hits.
I think WarioWare DIY vs Touched is a bit of a mixed comparison. Are we talking about a choice in 2023? Then Touched sits on more even ground. But when they were current and had online features DIY benefitted enormously from that.
I would also say that AC Wild World is a bit of a mixed pick because City Folk was basically "Wild World but it's prettier with some extras on Wii". If you specifically want the game on handheld then WW makes sense. But it's just kind of a superior version in City Folk.
Also, HG/SS are quite good and Diamond/Pearl/Platinum are stinky. That's my hot take as an old fogey. DPP is actually my least favorite of all the mainline Pokemon games. I know a lot of people got their start with that one though since it was the first on the DS (not sure if that was the case for you, I get the impression you're older than that but maybe not).
I also love Rhythm Heaven but I don't know that I could ever say it's one of the best on the system. It IS a must play though.
Well a bit of both, of course today DIY is a harder sell, I don't know but I doubt it got the Mario Kart Wii treatment where fans made custom servers that players can connect to even today, but ultimately for me it's still my preference in their time as well.
It's kind of like the Mario Maker issue, the creation tools are awesome and people do make some pretty cool things but there are limitations to what can be done that aren't in play when a developer is creating bespoke content for a non-user generated content game.
For a more current example, the kind of stuff we see in Super Mario Bros. Wonder's trailer vs. what can be done in Super Mario Maker 1 or 2 - both have value (SMM custom levels for example in the spirit of SMW romhacks offer far more difficult content than Nintendo's levels, if you seek that) and both have limitations.
It just so happens to be that in my case when I put those two things on the scales, it weighs in favor of well designed developer created content for me. In the case of WarioWare D.I.Y. even the included developer content was made with the game's creative tools and was subject to their limitations as well. Basically, D.I.Y. is creative and interesting and cool, but Touched! is just a more solid and cohesive experience to keep going back to in the long run for me.
That's fair, but City Folk came out 3 years later, so in it's era Wild World was not in competition with it. In terms of going back today, you're right that it just depends on what hardware somebody is shopping for, for whatever reasons as you outlined. I also think Wild World was a bigger step from AC on Gamecube than any other AC release has been from it's predecessor since, except maybe New Horizons. For what it did, I consider Wild World influential within it's franchise.
You're right that I'm older than that, but financial constraints affected my Pokemon experience. I did not have a Game Boy or GBC, so my first Pokemon game was Ruby, actually. While my school friends were playing R/B/Y and then G/S/C I was playing the TCG and watching the anime. I did go through the childhood experience of the original 151 being all there was for a while, and then gen 2 dropped, etc. via these other media but wasn't able to play the games until 3rd gen. Diamond/Pearl/Plat are not my favorite Pokemon games, just my favorite DS Pokemon games.
It kind of was, though, given that City Folk came out in 2008 and the DS was still the current Nintendo handheld until 2011 (and New Leaf didn't come out until 2013). I had both admittedly, but if I had bought a DS later in the generation I wouldn't have bothered with Wild World. I only have it because I bought it when it came out. The biggest criticism of City Folk, and why fewer people bought it on Wii, was that it was basically WW with the biggest added thing being nicer graphics on the TV (for me that was enough, at least to buy it on sale).
Different strokes... GSC is my all time favorite, I enjoyed HG/SS but seemingly not as much as some others did. DPP weren't my thing at all. BUT, I actually really enjoyed B/W and B2/W2 and they're up there as some of my favorites as well.
Honestly part of it is that Diamond/Pearl were abysmally slow in battles for some reason, and Platinum upped the speed but not nearly enough. It felt like sludge. I just didn't enjoy most of the new Pokemon or the world or any of it (and I'm not normally a "all new gen pokemon suck" type, I remember people dunking on Trubbish for being a literal garbage Pokemon and it's one of my favorites).
I never had City Folk so this might be nostalgia talking, but I feel like the Animal Crossing format shines on a handheld. The "play at least a little every day" routine works so well witj something you carry with you as opposed to a console that's stuck to your TV.
I agree to some extent. The real answer is it's perfect for a hybrid console where you have both options. I put more time into ACNH than any previous AC game and I've played them all - and I think that was one reason (the other being that this was the first time my wife ever played one and she got really into it, moreso than me even).
It's a game that is nice to play idly/casually while you watch TV or something like that as well. But it's also nice to be able to play on the big screen. City Folk also controlled well with the Wiimote imo.
I probably played more New Horizons than any others but that was more because I sunk into mid-pandemic depression than anything else lol
My best memories of Animal Crossing are from when I played Wild World and New Leaf as a kid, so I'll definitely admit that my life stage when they came out probably also influences my perception there. I'd probably feel differently about City Folk if we'd ever gotten it.
Have you ever played Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time?
Big DS-game feeling on that one, lol, but it's an awesome game. Maybe you'll like it considering you played BIS.
The problem with this one, and also Mario Kart to some extent, is that the sequel on the 3DS (or Switch) is miles better and still fully functioning. I went back to play WW recently, and it is pretty janky. Bad frame rate, blocky graphics... but the core game is basically the same as New Leaf. There are a few unique things in WW, and back in the day I really enjoyed it, but now? It's tough to play. Also you lose the online features that no longer work in any way - the DS only supports WEP.
Mario Kart has unique tracks I suppose, and it is still a fun game, but technology marched on and left those games behind.
Radiant Historia is another one I'd add to the list. Instant classic when it came out on the DS, but I'd play the 3DS remake first nowadays. It is basically the same game with a slightly larger viewing area and a few quality of life improvements.
I don't really know what to tell you, if you would rather play a newer iteration of a title in a franchise that hasn't changed much cause it's prettier, more polished, or still has working online features then yeah I hear you there's not much persuading that can be done against that mindset, it all comes down to whether we're trying to decide what the best DS games were or what the best DS games are for a new collector today.
I know I've been wishy washy throughout the thread about which way I'm looking at it, so maybe it's my fault, but that's because I'm trying to weigh both.
The latter viewpoint of what to shop for today makes some sense if the person has the option of 3DS around and is trying to decide what to buy right now, but from the perspective of just answering what I think were the best titles on the DS, I'm not down for witholding a title from the list of the greatest DS games just because the 3DS entry is too similar.
It's unfair to the DS entry in the context of a list of the best DS games that doesn't include newer platforms anyway. To me, that decision between the DS title and the newer entry on a different platform isn't mine to make if I'm just making a DS best-of, it's just out of scope. It belongs more in a context like "what's the best AC/Mario Kart game?" or "I never played AC/MK, where do I start?"
Like I said to another user who expressed they prefer City Folk, in my opinion Wild World was the biggest change in the franchise overall from it's predecessor until we get to New Horizons coming out of New Leaf, and to me that means Wild World was very influential on its successors, it doesn't make sense to me to sort of "punish" that with omission from the list.
In Mario Kart DS' case I'd argue it further, as game feel is tremendously important to me in the franchise and 7 has a very weird feeling to me that isn't quite right despite how easy it is to abuse DS' systems with the snaking tech. Also Mario Kart games all have different track selections and stuff too that means to me a newer game isn't automatically a comprehensive replacement for a previous one in this series depending on the tracks I want to play.
In terms of its legacy the questions I ask myself about Mario Kart DS would be what tracks did Mario Kart DS give the franchise? (for the legacy cups in the future) and what tracks did it have for itself, that aren't in later games? (i.e. how fun is it to go back to for its own sake?) How have these tracks changed to adjust to mechanics of newer Mario Kart games they appeared in? (Some change significantly, is it better, worse, or just different in a way that's still worth experiencing the original design?)
These nuances in game feel, mechanics, and content have a lot to do with why people favor certain titles. There's a very good reason so many people love to speedrun Super Mario 64, and didn't abandon the game to speedrun the newest 3D Mario, Odyssey instead, and generally speaking a different community runs the latter.
Yeah the two games are more different than Kart but I bet different names appear between the MKDS and MK7 speedrun leaderboards too. Even something like Wind Waker vs. WWHD. And speedrunning is just one mode of play with its own set of reasonings.
To me, MKDS is one of the best Mario Kart games ever, in spite of the existence of newer Mario Kart games, and I overall like every entry in the series except SNES and Super Circuit. (issue interpreting the visual in my case)
In the case of 3DS Radiant Historia, it comes down to how transformative a remake or port is. It's kind of like what I said about the Chrono Trigger port. Having not played Radiant Historia, I can't rank or include it, but if I wanted to, I'd put it on a best of DS list with a note about the 3DS version rather than putting Perfect Chronology on a best of 3DS list to take a spot away from 3DS-native titles. I love Chrono Trigger, and I view it as one of the best SNES games - playing the DS port, to me, is playing one of the best SNES games on the DS, it feels unfair to DS games to let it be one of the best DS games for free like that. It's how I'd treat ports and remakes overall unless they're super transformative or deviated from original like FF7 Remake.
I hope my reasoning makes sense. It's not to say you're wrong or anything for feeling the way you do, it's just that my purpose here is more mixed, favors treating the platform as a bit of a closed bubble, favors keeping historical entries in a franchise relevant and respected, and favors keeping ports and remakes listed with their original platforms. It's just a different set of priorities.
I personally would've added Tony Hawk's American Sk8land to the list too.
In some ways it's a heavily bastardized handheld version of American Wasteland with fewer (and shorter) songs, less stages, a heavily toned-down story and a practically nonexistent Create-A-Park feature which just involved you adding six custom features to the warehouse level, but it was an incredibly impressive feat to add a game even remotely as feature-rich as THPS2 on the DS hardware for its time. Including Alcatraz from THPS4 additionally felt like a neat bonus which actually fit into the game's LA theme.
Also, unlike its larger sister-game, American Sk8land didn't have its hype tarnished by poor marketing decisions, like promising 'no loading screens' when the first thing you see when you boot up the game is a fucking loading screen, nor touting the ability to play the game on both skateboard and BMX when you had a far more limited moveset and couldn't progress at all through missions while riding one.
For anyone thinking of playing 999, PLEASE play it in the original DS format and look up as little as you can. I'm glad they released it for the PC since the series deserves a new audience, but there's a particular piece of the DS version which gets missed in the process of being removed from the system and it's unfortunate. It's a nearly perfect visual novel and IMO the best implementation of Uchikoshi's brand of fiction.
Speaking of, I appreciate a lot of these games are great because they really played well with the console and not in spite of it... Except Dawn of Sorrow, which totally plays better if you just patch out the touch elements.
Oh god can you reply with what's missing in spoiler text? I've watched someone else play 999 when I was younger so I know the major plot twist(s) already, and I recently bought the PC collection out of nostalgia so I'm curious what gets left out.
Enormous SPOILERS for 999!
(go play 999 first!)
When Santa points out that Junpei knows things he's not supposed to, Akane reveals she's the narrator. But in the DS version, all of the conversations have already been happening on the top screen and the narration separately occurs on the bottom screen - and then the flashback happens on the bottom screen. So you watching both Akane and Junpei's perspective the entire time simultaneously. Then when the Sudoku puzzle comes up the screens flip - because Junpei is shifting info back to Akane - and you have to turn the DS upside-down. I like that it implies you're a sort of conduit for the story too, it goes along with Uchikoshi's other work. Not a huge bummer if you missed out, it's still a great story! But it's icing on the cake and I push for people to get the full experience.Ooh okay that makes perfect sense! That is a really cool use of the DS as a medium, damn.
Also my favorite handheld. The DS Lite is the very first console I bought myself with money earned at the end of a summer job. Tons of incredible games, many with excellent and original ideas that use the 2 screens.
I'd also like to recommend one of my favorite games: Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime.
From wikipedia:
Oh great choice! I forgot about this one. I started it but never finished it, I'll have to make sure to get back to it, but my 3DS battery stopped holding a charge and began to swell so until I order a replacement, I can't use it.
Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime really is an understated game and just such a fun experience.
Rather sad though that its prequel and sequel weren’t localised as they look like great games in their own right as well. Hoping one day they might get the bundle remake treatment or maybe a release on a future virtual console as it would be such a shame if western audiences were to miss out completely especially considering how well square Enix have been with bringing many of the other DQ games including spin-offs overseas.
Really feels like the author of this list chose some of the most obscure crap to drive controversy and clicks.
I mean I can understand Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver (phenomenal Gen 2 remakes), Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow and even a Phoenix Wright game making the list, but there are some games that nobody has ever heard of and for good reason making the cut, while beating other gems off the list. It feels like a crime that no Mario games made the list despite the DS having some absolute bangers in the Mario series come out. Where's New Super Mario Bros and Mario Kart DS?
A good example of what I mean by 'obscure crap' is Elite Beat Agents, which ranked at #6 yet was so horrifically mid that it never sold well nor garnered a sequel. Even Ouendan (the short-lived Japan-exclusive series it was based on) got a sequel in its home country and actually got some pretty big songs in the second game. EBA's problem was a soundtrack filled with really poor covers, a premise which translated incredibly poorly to the American market, a cast of characters which were either far too cringey to appeal to a Western audience or were locked behind the game's hardest difficulty, and some horrific difficulty spikes presented by the last two stages. Without A Fight and Jumpin' Jack Flash had some incredibly difficult charts which would punish you with immediate failure for even small mistakes, which made getting past Sweatin' difficulty nearly impossible without countless hours of practice.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Nintendo revisit Elite Beat Agents and maybe consider reviving it as a mobile game. It could actually work really well on smartphones/tablets due to their touchscreen nature, especially if the cost of purchasing playable songs as DLC covers the cost of licensing the original tracks and not paying bargain-bin prices for crappy covers.
Then there are games which were kinda mainstream but weren't that good. Dragon Quest IX is another good example. The game really suffered from having you play a custom character as the main protagonist and just felt like a generic JRPG, of which the Nintendo DS had many far better examples. Even Final Fantasy III, a game marred with so many instant Game Over booby-traps that it becomes un-fun, was better than DQIX.
I couldn’t disagree with you more! Elite Beat Agents is one of the most influential rhythm games of all time! If you look at the rhythm games that have come out of arcades since, a huge number of them copy the tap-the-target mechanic. The game was so good that it caused a huge number of people to import (or perhaps more realistically pirate) copies of the two Japanese games.
And beyond that, Elite Beat Agents is perhaps the most intense localization effort ever made; I can’t think of a single game which goes to the extreme of licensing much more expensive local music to replace the original songs. While some DDR releases did have regional exclusive songs, EBA replaced the entire song selection! It’s more accurate to call EBA a spin-off of the Ouendan games.
Beyond that, the series still lives on in the form of a fan recreation called Osu!
While I would have put one of the original Japanese titles instead, this series absolutely belongs on this list.
If I were to criticize this list, I would be more upset at how over-represented puzzle games are.
Tap-the-target is probably the simplest and most intuitive control scheme for smartphones, which is why I stated that EBA/Ouendan would actually make for a phenomenal mobile reboot and would be in Nintendo's best interests to pursue since their shareholders have a raging hard-on for mobile gaming right now. That being said, the only time I really saw their mechanics get copied ad verbatim in the same console generation was in Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, which had a combat system that required such inputs to execute attacks.
I wouldn't say a huge number of people. Osu! Tatake! Ouendan! only pushed 60,000 copies overall. The sequel did push 4.5 times as many copies, but I think that was more-so down to the sequel having more popular j-pop songs. EBA did worse in terms of sales over its lifetime than the second Ouendan game, despite NOA doing a lot of marketing. Sales were practically nonexistent in Europe.
As for piracy... there wouldn't have been much of a point to doing that. Playing touchscreen games on a PC with a DS emulator is a massive pain, especially when you didn't have tablets or other touchscreen devices that could emulate at the time. I cannot imagine anything worse than attempting the game's hardest songs with a mouse cursor when they were absolute gauntlets with far more intuitive stylus controls. Flash cartridges didn't really come onto the scene until 2008 onwards so it's not like you could have played a pirated copy on original hardware either.
It's also worth mentioning that DS and DS Lite systems are region-free, so you could've just gone on Playasia and imported physical copies of either Ouendan game for a reasonable price if you really wanted to play those games. And even then you're just playing a J-pop predecessor to EBA.
I don’t know why you think that DS piracy started in 2008. Piracy on the DS was a problem practically since it was first launched; the first flash cards to run DS software were GBA flash carts. One of the big ones was Supercard which was released before the DS did. There were “Slot 1” flash cards available that made it even easier since they required no exploits release by 2007 as far as my googling can find. I know this because I was playing the sequel within a week of it coming out.
This list is not a bad one. I loved the DS, especially the DS Lite. It was extremely easy to take with you, folding meant the screen could be kept safe, weighed damn near nothing. And the library had so many interesting titles. When flashcarts became more available, I got one and started trawling the internet for whatever things I could find, and ended up playing a bunch of fan-translated games.
Of the stuff released in NA, I really enjoyed Etrian Odyssey, Age of Empires: Mythologies, and Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia. Of the fan-translated stuff, the ones that stick out in my memory were Ni No Kuni and Soma Bringer. I have an archive of all of it stowed away on a drive and in a flashcart, sometimes I break out an old DSi and play around on it.
While the games themselves are solidly part of the collectibles market now (read: they're getting more expensive), it's very easy to obtain a system for not much money, especially if you're just going for one of the standard models. A flashcart is pretty easy to obtain and use, too, so I tend to recommend folks go that route and/or emulate stuff on a different portable if they're interested. I had Drastic set up on a Retroid Pocket II in a way that worked out really well - only one screen displays at a time, and you use a key combo to flip between top and bottom. Some games this doesn't work out well with, but for a lot of the games I like, it does. Worth looking into if you're curious, the DS is an awesome little system with a very robust library.
Ni no Kuni was such an interesting experience. I’ve got to see if I still have the spell book somewhere, it might be worth a replay!
I am still upset that Nintendo didn’t localize Soma Bringer. I still don’t understand why they refuse to localize games they already own and have a guaranteed audience for.
I'd like to mention Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky as well. It's my favourite game of all time (all platforms considered).
In comparison to Platinum, which is also awesome, Explorers is not a main-line Pokémon game, but a heavily story-driven dungeon crawler with arguably the best OST in all DS games. It even has its own romhacks, which are far more advanced than what I saw in main-line Gen 4 modding.
The story writing/characters, music, gameplay and visuals are all phenomenal and the game is HUGE. The post(!)-game alone is really long. Additionally there are five bonus episodes too (in each you play as the other characters you meet in the game, like other exploration teams or guild members).
There's also Rescue Team Blue, but that's technically more a GBA title (Rescue Team Red is for GBA). Also nice, but doesn't include the quality of life changes from Sky. Still I love that title too! Lastly there's Gates to Infinity and Super Mystery Dungeon. Super is awesome and very nostalgic (you will think of your childhood A LOT). Gates is the black sheep of the series, rightfully so, but it's still a good game (especially the OST; the OST was one of the reasons I started getting enthusiastic about music, lol). For the Switch there's also Rescue Team DX – a remake of Rescue Team Red/Blue. Pretty well made and adorable, although the soundtrack is hit or miss.
For everyone who hasn't played it (Explorers of Sky) yet: Give it a chance. Enjoy it on a relaxing day at night in the comfort of your bed. If you can, do it on an actual DS. There's barely anything like it.
It’s nice to see Meteos on the list. I got a DSat launch, and was super in to the gaming community at the time (especially GameFAQs forums). The DS had absolutely terrible support at launch, you had a port of Mario64 and not much else. We were all desperate for games, really grasping for anything decent. I think there was some mediocre Yoshi game that got buzz? And a lot of people imported a Naruto platform we? Meteos was an oasis in the desert, a really good game that exploited the DS’s features.
I'm glad to see Henry Hatsworth getting a mention. That game is great and also incredibly hard, I never actually beat it. Glad to see Chinatown Wars on there too, I could play that drug dealing minigame all day.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Trials and Tribulations was such a perfect game for the DS, I kinda wanna get one just to play it again. The game definitely works on PC, but I love the pixel graphics and the use it was a perfect game for the dual screen format.
Also got a 3DS port, if you've got one of them laying around. I go back to the series here and there with my 3DS; it's very comfortable to hold with one hand in bed and tap the screen with my thumb.
Ah, Tetris DS.
Some people in Tildes may recognize me for my obsession with Tetris.
Tetris DS was my gateway drug for competitive Tetris, so I have a special relationship with it.
So anyway: the article gives a pretty uninspired description of Tetris DS. Let me give you a more in-depth look at this game. And by this I mean of course a thorough review of the game, its mechanics, its scene, and the influence it had on me.
I'm recycling /adapting/translating the following from a writing challenge we had with some friends from a French message board. The goal was to write something about each favorite (not the best, the *favorite) game for each year between 2000 and 2010. Those words were for year 2006.
So strap it, get yourself comfortable and make a cup of your hot beverage of choice, because it's going to be a long one.
Also I'm putting this in expandables section so has to not drown the other conversations in my blockish ramblings.
The Tetris DS experience
Context: the DS
We are in 2006.
Despite its weak hardware (it's following the Gameboy footsteps no doubt), and an industrial design that's not a copycat from the late-00s Apple, the Nintendo DS is slowly but surely reaching a dominance over the Sony PSP
Looking at the game catalog from 2004 to 2006, we can already see how the DS is a console for everything and everyone. A true generalist console, like the PS1 was back in its day.
There are excellent gamer's game like Mario Kart DS, Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow, Meteos, Nanostray, Ouendan!, Ace Attorney, Trauma Center, so on an so forth.
There are licensed game that goes from "meh" to "pretty good (I'm thinking about Jump Super Star).
There are ports of the big license from the home console, with quality also varying (Need for Speed Most Wanted, Tomb Raider Legends).
There are experimental games that takes advantage of the touch screen (Pac Pix, Electroplankton).
And of course there are the occasional shovelware (Ping Pals, Horsez Imagine: Master Chef).
But it's with the huge success of Kawashima1 , and then of Nintendogs that Nintendo enters the casual market. I heavily suspect that the console redesign is at least in part due to this.
1: Sorry it's: "Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training: How Old Is Your Brain?" or even "Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day!" instead.
Why Tetris ?
So: we are in 2006, and more precisely we are between March and April.
Internet is astonished by the brightness of the then-Japan-only DS Lite2. I heavily suspect that Nintendo wanted to have a good killer app release at the same time as its new DS model. And for that, what better choice than THE killer app darling of the Game Boy ?
2: by the way: "The DS lite I have set to 'Death' and the original DS I have set to 'On'" still makes me chuckle to this day
So, Tetris was born again3, and in a similar circumstance than his big brother the Game Boy.
3: Sidenote: I was wondering why Nintendo was tasked to be the main developer. The Tetris Company at the time had a policy of "one platform, one game", and THQ (infamous for the very meh Tetris Worlds and Tetris Elements) was the main caretaker at the time. I looked at the Game Developer (née Gamasutra) archive: there was indeed a legal dispute precisely because of this. It was settled out of court
What Tetris DS looks like, and what it contains
This is a Tetris that plays hard on the nostalgia part. There's an unbearably cute title screen where several classic Nintendo character appears in their 8-bit apparel and interact with tetraminoes. Mario hurl hammers at them, Samus blast them with lasers, DK throws them. Alot of UI element are directly lifted from the game (for instance the green pipes acting as the playfield border). Oh, and Sakurai must have been around, because there's some heavy reference to forgotten classics like Excite Bike, Balloon Fight and Devil World.
And there were plenty of solo and multiplayer modes.
On the solo side, we count 6 modes. Some are really creative like the "Push" mode. In there you battle against the AI while sharing the same playfield. In "Catch", you rotate the whole stack instead of the falling pieces. But some modes are less so. "Puzzle" can be brute forced. Mission is boring. And finally there's the obligatory "hey look we're using the touchscreen!" mode, called "Tower". It's very forgettable.
Standard mode and the Tetris Company Guidelines
And then there's the standard mode.
Did I told you about the Tetris Company ? It's the company that holds the Tetris IP. Pajitnov itself is a board member, but I think he's just there to receive the paycheck4.
One of the condition you have to respect in order to release a Tetris game is to follow some official guidelines. That include game mechanics (I think it's almost a complete game design document).
4: I absolutely don't blame him, I would probably do the same considering his situation
The problem with those mandatory game mechanics is that they are not all that well designed. I said this before and I'll say it again: the guidelines 5 makes for a bad single player game. And in the case of Tetris, I think that casual players can get bored once they learn about "the trick", and hardcore players cannot find a good challenge to try to overcome.
5: and to make matters even worse, as far as I know, it hasn't been updated significantly since 2005 (maybe some little modification in 2017-ish ?)
The "trick" (called "infinity") in question is this: mash the rotation button and then the active piece never locks. And more often than not, you can climb on your stack and wiggle your piece wherever by mashing the rotation buttons.
This is perhaps crystallized the max-out score (or lack thereof): the maximum score is 9999999. Nice and well. But: due to a bug (overflow I guess ?), the score won't be saved in memory unless you make it exactly to 9999999. Sounds impossible ? Not at all: by exploiting the infinity trick, and by the fact that pressing down slowly increment the score counter 1 by 1, it's very doable. At the time, teenage me found that so shocking he even made a crappy video about this6
6: random fun fact: Hikaru Utada, the idol pop singer (and, is a total Tetris nerd and she posted a screencap of her 9999999 in her blog. She's nerdy enough that Nintendo organized some promo event with her. I find that so adorable.
And thus, I find the single player of Tetris DS a bit lacking7.
7: of course I'm biased, being a Tetris the Grand Master player and all. I like this game so much that I made a video about it. Go have a look at it and comment on this thread.
But there's some interesting idea still. They were not pioneered by TDS, but that doesn't make them less mandatory. The hold mechanics is a good shield against unfavorable piece distribution and/or adding another strategical layer to multiplayer (more on that later). The so-called 7-bag piece distribution is far from perfect, but more uniform (by design) 8.
8: if you think me talking out about Tetris game design is nerdy, wait until you discover a sub-part of the Tetris community that's focused on piece distribution analysis ! This article gives a good overview of the main "randomizer" present in the various Tetris game over time, and shout-out to colour_thief for being a beautiful nerd
The guidelines and multiplayer
Now, a lot of those rules I don't like for single-player... works surprisingly well in multiplayer ! In some sort of Aikido-reversal, those perceived weaknesses now become strengths.
What happens is that the game design also favor speed, but unlike TGM it's an intrinsic speed -- the speed comes from the player, not the game. And this is perfect for multiplayer. It's like a fighting game: a duel between two or more player where the game system doesn't get in the way of the player. The games gives as much tool as possible to overcome the opponent; through active attack instead of loitering for a while and waiting for the other to top out naturally. It's player vs player instead of player vs game.
And so, the extreme mobility given by the infinity behavior and that button mashing I talk earlier on is no longer a weakness of game design, but an additional tool against an opponent. One that can save you from a delicate situation by trading some time for more survivability. It's similar from being knocked down in a versus fighting game.
And to continue with this analogy, since it's so easy to get your active piece wherever you want, the role of the holes in the stack becomes different. More often than not, it's not really a lapse of judgment, but a consequence of an offensive action.
It's as if as if the playfield was a vertical health bar. You trade blows by making several lines at once. This sends garbage lines and make the opponent health shrink. But the other one can do the same, and it's your responsibility to regen your health by making lines and clearing garbage.
To this effect, the kind of drop they chose is naturally a "hard" drop (the piece locks immediately, contrary to the TGM one where you have to perform a second move with the stick to lock it). There's an execution trade-off though: you have to careful where you piece is aligned, because a misdrop can have devastating consequence, just like you can punish a whiff in fighting games.
The hold mechanic is no longer just a defensive tool, but can be an offensive one as well by storing an I piece for instance. And in that particular case, there's a bonus (more garbage lines) for making back-to-back Tetris.
Would you believe me if I told you there were some special moves ? Because there are ! It's the infamous T-spin. This consists in exploiting the peculiarities of the guideline "wallkick" mechanic (you cannot do this in TGM because the wallkicks are way simpler) . With a careful construction, you can place a T piece in an unnatural positions. And if you happen to make a line, there can be a significant garbage bonus. Infamously, the "T-spin triple" sends more line than a Tetris.
But doing the preliminary block construction is very risky, because it's far from obvious. And while you're doing it you're weak to a swift counter-attack and a kick top-out. Most of the time is best if you do them in an ad-hoc manner. One thing I find interesting: by exploiting the fact that the randomizer is always give the same amount of pieces (only the order is scrambled), you can craft some opening move that guarantee a t-spin triple or two t-spins doubles.
I doubt all of this was intentional (there's zero mention of t-spins in the manual for instance), but the huge popularity of the game certainly trail blazed a solid competitive scene. In fact, most of the openers that are still used to this day were devised during that time.
The Tetris DS *multiplayer* experience
Now, I have nearly a thousand words on the game mechanics but nothing on the experience itself.
Tetris DS had two ways to play multiplayer: online and offline.
Offline had this super handy "Download Play" feature (or "game sharing" ? I don't remember the specific name). In short, you only needed only one game cart to play to full multiplayer game. They're not the first one to do this9</sum>, but probably the first one to do it via wifi. Anyway: you could link up to 8 console together. I haven't had much experience with that kind of game (although there's one memorable match I had once whereI managed to win a 1 vs 4 match; epic !), but I know that was a mainstay of various DS-centric meetup.
9</sum>: it's very similar to the "spawn installation" of early Blizzard games
I spent most of my time in the Online modes: there's 2-players, 4-players and Push versus.
Push is the same as in 1 player mode, except the opponent is of course a human. It's a test of speed, and curiously enough there's no provision against perfect clears. Granted, it's super rare (it happened to me exactly once) , but if you happen to clear the playfield of everything... the game simply go on forever, until one player disconnected.
2-player is a very pure experience, and probably similar to what people experienced with a link cable and two Game Boys back in the day.
But for me at the time, the real meat was in 4-players versus. Why ? Items ! It's like in Mario kart: as you play, you can get some special item to help you (like the star who gives you only I pieces for a few seconds) or hurt others (like the dreaded lightning bold). Offense or defense. Fortunately, there;s no rubber-banding mechanism like in Mario Kart. Small elitist anecdote: the mushroom item, which speed up the game considerably for a random opponent... isn't that much of a detriment to an experienced player. In some case it's even good for them, because they can play faster !
You could play with your friend online and customize some match. But no account ! You have to use those effing "friend codes". Those 3x4 digits long sequence were as painful to use as they sound like.
There was a clever system for tournament: since it was mostly a 1vs1 affair, you could very well start a 4-player versus with two spectators.
Most of the time I was playing against rando. There was a matchmaking system that worked a bit similarly to Elo: you start at level 5000, and you lose and gain points depending on the result of the match and the point delta between you and the opponents.
Now, unfortunately, those point were shared within all modes. So it's not possible to play a Serious Game (tm) of 1vs1 and then relax around whit a 4 players battle royale with items. Moreover, one frustration we had is that it's easy to lose point but hard to gain them; a single loss can be devastating.
But overall, I had excellent memories of this online mode. There were indeed some very tense duels, and it's really a shame that Nintendo didn't implement a system where you could add an opponent as friend or something similar.
An overview of who I played with (or wished I played with)
I had a rating that was between 6500 and 7100, which was medium-good. The very good players were between 7500 and 8000, and only a few gods could go over 8000.
This was also around the time when I joined Tetrisconcept (a message board centered around Tetris), and we all did what all gaming clan did by prefixing our handle with a "TC-" tag.
There were other tag, and one of the most feared was the TGM one. They were all TGM player. We now know for sure that TGM-HOLiC was for sure Jin8 (the one in the original TGM3 invisible Tetris viral video, and the first person to get the Gm grade in TGM3), and TGM-Arika was Ichiro Mihara, Arika vice-president They were somewhat famous enough that some copycat appeared (people with none of the skill nor the Arika connection), to a point where a parody clan (TCM, standing for "The Chicken Master") was created.
Some jealous cheaters were also using the TGM tag; I've met some of them. There were several types of cheater, and they were fortunately not numerous enough to ruin the game.
The worst of them were the one who disabled the loss flag. There was simply no way to beat them (they somehow cleared to playfield when they top out). The second one were way more interesting. It's the one who were in a perpetual state of star item, nothing more, nothing less. And that's also means that it's still possible to beat them ! If the cheater fills its screen with blocks, it's very possible to beat them with a well timed attack. Humiliating a cheater by doing this is extremely gratifying feeling (many thanks to "Lucky-☆" for losing to me). The last type of cheater were mostly invisible, as they deactivated losing rating points (why wasn't there some server side validation I don't know). But at that level they probably get crushed very quickly by the legit top100 players.
And speaking of leaderboard, I have to mention blockstats.org. It's a website that regularly crawled the leaderboard (they were publised online at the time) so that you could find your real place in the global leaderboard, and track your progress. You could also blog and there even was an IRC channel, where you could play again some of those 7500+ (hi Caithness !).
Conclusion
So yeah, Tetris DS was kind of a big deal for me. It's a game that was with me during that transition between high-schooler and college student, and most important of all made me discover competitive Tetris, TGM, and by extension the arcade game experience (quite hard to have when the last arcade in the city closed down 3 years prior).
Thanks for reading this to the end !
Wow, I haven’t been to destructors in like a decade. I can’t believe how many ads they have plastered between every number on that list.
Hadn't even noticed, myself! Just popped up on my Google News this morning, but I have Ublock, as well as a Pihole, so I never got them.