Tildes Minecraft Hardcore - Live at 20:00 UTC today
Once this post is 1 hour old the server will be live! We are playing on hardcore mode. That means you will enter spectator mode after you die.
Rule #1 is still "Don't be a dick". But also it'll probably be more fun if there's a little PvP... I'll leave it up to you all to draw the line. I've removed most plugins and datapacks, but intentionally kept "Player Head Drops" so you can have trophies.
Server host: tildes.nore.gg (Running Java 1.21.8)
Bluemap: Nope! That would be too easy!
Tildes website extension (shows online status & location): Firefox (Desktop and Android) - Chrome
Verification site: https://verify.tildes.nore.gg
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TildesMC
Plugins and Data Packs
Data Packs:- Armor Statues [Vanilla Tweaks]
- Fast Leaf Decay [Vanilla Tweaks]
- Mini Blocks [Vanilla Tweaks]
- More Mob Heads [Vanilla Tweaks]
- Player Head Drops [Vanilla Tweaks]
Plugins:
- Clickable Links - Makes http URLs in chat clickable (only for registered players)
- Hexnicks - Enables Tildes usernames to be displayed
- LuckPerms - Locks down unregistered users
- WorldEdit - Used for occasional admin stuff
- WorldGuard - Prevents unregistered users from changing anything in the world
The server operates on a soft whitelist. Anyone can log in and walk around, but you need a Tildes account to gain build access.
There has been a murder. RIP @Merry
I gave meat and they gave me steel :(
I died. stats: 1 kill
Alright, decided to go haunt the server one last time before I go to work today and managed to capture @IsildursBane joining the server and make a sleep deprived mad dash for the cultural captial of this server (@Mendanbar's island).
Here are some final screenshots:
That's my half-finished castle! woo!
In the cave underneath @IsildursBane could have found a nether portal. Jumping inside, he could have followed a short stone bridge and gotten to another nether portal leading to the cultural capital.
I also took a few screenshots last night:
my visit to the island (I stole potatoes and a few stacks of stone)
the chat after my death
castle / cave home
also, on the topic of cool ghost pictures: here's a creeper's view of the island
That bundle has a diamond in it!
As a ghost I observed that quite a lot of you dug a lot of vertical mineshafts. Just blindly digging straight down on a survival server. Yall are crazy, but AFAIK, nobody died from it?
After I died (day 1, hour 1. go me), I started up a single player hardcore survival game and I've been progressing nicely with that. Emboldened by your all's carefree mining habits, I decided to give a vertical mineshaft a shot. Promptly fell into a lush cave, nearly died, and then wasn't able to locate the hole from which I fell. Good times. Shame on you all, you're setting a bad example for fools like me!
Lol, I did it "properly" actually. Then died by adhding decorating the entrance to my hidey hole. Many ways to die in this silly game.
I nominate "Dumb Ways To Die" as the anthem of this hardcore attempt :D
Seconded!
On the upside, the person with 2025 deaths on the survival server now looks at least a little more competent than before
Given that the majority of those is by choice and a other large part due to your refusal to wear armor most of the time. I don't think your competence was ever in question, quite the opposite the numbers pretty much reflect competence. Stubborn character streaks could be argued, but I have no authority to speak on that matter on account of being a stubborn character myself and have no bearing on competency anyway ;)
You can dig straight down pretty safely by standing on the border between two blocks. Dig one of those sides straight down 3 blocks. Then swap to the other side. If a cave or lava pool opens up beneath you, you're still half standing on one block and can't fall in. So you can just use a water bucket on the hole and descend in safely, which also leaves you a way out and a sort of beacon for your exit. The only real risk is lava pouring in from the side which is extremely reactable with either a water bucket or jumping up and replacing the block you just mined.
wow I wish I had heard about this sooner. Really had to scramble to install all my performance mods! thanks for running it regardless tea <3
I guess it got you in the right mindset with the speed you got into diamond so fast :P
And then died so fast too ;)
The speedrunner mindset lol
Oh, you must have died shortly after I logged off then? RIP
Really sucks that it happened so fast. See you on the actual season 3!
I win!
...what do you mean it's not a race to die first?
I don't have much time to join in this weekend but wanted to jump in for a minute, thanks for running this even if I'm just lurking a bit. I'll definitely be back for the next launch though.
I made it once again
Made it about an hour and managed to get iron armor/tools before falling victim to a persistent skeleton.
Shields are essential early game!
I had one :(
Whelp, guess I'm out too. Enderman got me.
Damn this isn't going so smoothly :P
If someone beats the ender dragon, they should get to pick next season's world seed as a prize! You could reset the world each weekend until someone manages it. Would give people an incentive to tryhard. Just an idea. :P
This will be the only hardcore world for a while. I think it might ruin the fun a bit if the players know the seed.
I have to agree. The temptation to use chunkbase is too great.
Well, I am also out. The good news is that there is a basic shelter next to spawn for people to use. The entrance does have an explosion shaped hole in front of it though....
@teaearlgraycold, gave me the motivation to get the mod working with 1.21.8. @Talklittle already did a bunch of research in the remapped APIs then I had to wrangle gradle upgrades and other shadow shenanigans. But, it now all works.
Edit:
Welp, looks like they also changed the message format itself for hover events.
@talklittle we got it all working and released a new version: https://modrinth.com/mod/web-chat
So, all the death people can now talk with each other properly :P
That is great, good job getting that working. Looks like it was even more work than I thought!
Why would they change things? :(
I also came and went. I did build a nice safe island base complete with nether portal. Unfortunately the nether portal led directly to a cliff in a soul sand valley. A ghast was waiting for me on the other side, and he broke my portal before burning me alive. :/
Anyone who's still alive is welcome to take over my base and/or raid it for resources.
I've just died - withered away. (wither skele)
was trying to push to the end. got 6 blaze rods... but alas.
Heck yeah! I wish I could be there for launch, but I'll be home in 4ish hours!
Who's gonna defeat the dragon? Seems it won't be @Evie this time!
Maybe you? :D
I'm curious who will be the first to ride a happy ghast.
Riding the happy ghast? Euphemism?
https://minecraft.wiki/w/Happy_Ghast
I'm gonna try my best, I think it'll be a fun way to approach a 3 day hardcore world.
Don't know if I'll have time to hop on but if I will if I can! Ready to die in 10 minutes of joining haha
Made it about an hour before almost dying of starvation, then finding some pigs thinking I'd be saved, only for a creeper to sneak up behind me while cooking and I couldn't react quick enough. :D
RIP https://i.imgur.com/V829ZoT.png
I logged on shortly after @creesch died and got thier stuff. I also haven't died yet and even Managed to get my hands on a (1) diamond.
My two cents (0.017Euro, 0.027CAD) on Season 3 options:
In general, I think the fewer restrictions, the better. Although, I do think it'd be interesting to gate the nether for a week, and the end for two weeks just to get the overworld going and explored first. I think in general, I'm on the same page as @dhcrazy333 with minecraft as virtual legos. Maybe we have one weekend a month where we do a 3-day hardcore world so that people can scratch the Minecraft as Survival Game itch?*
As for the nether roof, I'd love if we could keep it -- I'm already trying to work out if a 3-D scale model of the overworld would be feasible up there. I do think putting the nether roof portal so prominently inside the Spawned Inn was a bit much; I think I should have hidden it a little better to discourage new players from hopping in. But, I think the best was to discourage nether roof travel would be to improve overworld travel somehow. Faster minecart options perhaps, or maybe better ice boat travel (having it work with carpet on it would open up great aesthetic travel options, and someway to go up y-levels on them (I'll do a few experiments with this over break)).
Also, in my opinion, making death more punishing would suck. I often have to run off quickly for a few minutes to deal with something in the house, and coming back to a death screen is already frustrating. A 10 minute soft-ban, or spectate-break might take up a good portion of my available playtime for the day.
And next season, my first order of business will be to make maps of as much of the world as possible before much building takes place. Then display it side-by-side with an updated map to show our progress!
*Speaking of, has anyone here played any Vintage Story? To me, at least, it looks like minecraft if it moved in the direction of hardscrabble survival game instead of the more sandboxy direction minecraft has gone in. I'm tempted to play some over the season break, but wanted to see if anyone had experience with it.
Sorry forgot to reply to this in my other comment. I have seen it come by a few times, your question made me just pull the trigger and buy it. I'll let you know my experience with :)
Your nether roof map was one of my favorite features of last season's world, so if you are planning another nether roof thing I'm 100% in support of keeping the roof intact.
I am also intrigued by Vintage Story. I've watched some videos on youtube and the game is on my wishlist, but so far I have not pulled the trigger. I think it's mostly because I've got a backlog of games that I need to get through before I can justify another purchase though.
My first impression is a odd mix of minecraft (blocks and mechanics) but the textures and rendering remind somewhat of Valheim.
The first half hour of play haven't entirely drawn me in yet, but I do some potential.
To be honest, that isn't the same thing to me. I like the fact that the long term server has a survival aspect to it, that resources aren't always a given and you have to set up infrastructure in the form of factories, farms, etc. It is what inspires me personally to build things, as I feel like I am building in a more "real" world. I get bored on a creative server quickly and barely am motivated to build things as it doesn't "do" anything or serve any purpose.
Again, doesn't mean I don't like the creative building process. But a valuable part of that is managing the resources and not having everything handed to me.
But, for other things I build it is exactly because it serves a purpose that I get motivation to build them. Roads to be actually used, canals to be traveled and rails to be used are prime examples of that.
I could not build them of course if the nether roof is used for most travel. But, that makes the world feel disconnected to me, separate builds on isolated parts of the server that have no connection to each other. Because the roof is completely detached from everything. It is effectively a form of fast travel. Which again ties in to me finding pleasure in helping create a world that is "alive" and has the infrastructure that goes with it.
That's also where I think the HOA meme came from. Because I like thinking about this stuff, try to motivate others to also take that sort of thing in consideration, effectively build as real of a town in game as possible. Three day hard core survival servers wouldn't scratch any itch for me in that regard.
I don't really feel the need to forbid people to explore the nether early or the end for that matter. What I am more looking for is to discourage the nether roof being used to set up travel infrastructure straight away.
With that in mind instead of just blocking the roof entirely, I think it is a good idea to consider blocking the roof for the first few weeks or so. Just so other means of transport get a chance of being developed and be relevant.
I mean, you put it up well after the nether roof was already well traveled. To the point that the "harm" (notice the quotes) was already done.
I feel like that those would help them stay relevant if already build. But if I compare this season to previous season they were not really build as much until much later. See also my earlier remark.
Yup, message received loud and clearly, most people don't like this suggestion so as far as I am concerned I am retracting that as suggestion for a possible change :)
On that note, I can proudly note that the De Lijn line was actually faster than flying through the nether! Going from the Tildetown notice board to Shroomlandia's OG house via ice boat was, funnily, several seconds faster than if you used an elytra, fireworks, and the nether roof. I timed it a couple of times prior to the expansion north of shroomlandia and it checked out. Not sure if singleplayer or the north expansion affected the timings.
Curious how it would compare to flying. It possibly could compete if it was above ground I suppose.
Now that I think about it. You building the line in the first place is a good example of why I am trying to give these things some consideration. Because the main reason you build it is that flying, at the time, was not an option for you.
So if we can discourage methods of fast travel like flying and the nether roof (even just for a little while) and possibly boost other modes of travel. Possibly get some ice roads planted down. Then I feel like it would work pretty well in my mind.
So, I've been looking at some ice boat designs.
One of my biggest issues with ice boats is that they're unable to go uphill without killing all momentum. I've tried water columns, slime block launchers, and tripwire-activated pistons, and all of them rob some momentum.
Through my non-exhaustive search, my best solution is a chunk-long piston system that lifts you up a block. It's only a 4% grade, and a series of them can slow an ice boat down to about 16m/s (Still twice as fast as a standard minecart, though!). It does however also slow you down to that speed while going downhill.
Some obstacles to uphill travel:
-Being pushed up by a piston creates friction and slows the boat
-Bubble columns kill all forward momentum
-A blue ice boat at max speed moves about 7 blocks per redstone tick, so any device has to be fast
-Chunk loading can't be guaranteed on all computers at max ice boat speeds, so whatever uphill mechanism needs to function at slow and fast boat speeds.
-Most uphill moving mechanisms also slow down your boat when going downhill on the same track, which feels unnecessarily, and inefficient.
I'd love to have fast overworld travel next season, but I'd like to have transport that can change y-level without a loss of efficiency.
Potential avenues of research:
-There might be something in slime-block launchers, but I don't have a lot of experience with them, and all my experiments fell flat.
-I know some racing servers have a mod for boats to climb 1 block ice inclines, and/or stairs and slabs
Any ideas out there for something to improve ice boat versatility?
How about sky roads? Possibly have the only Y level change be at stations? Possibly at a fairly reasonable level and then use tunnels for the highest mountain peaks?
I've been meaning to start up a little paper server to experiment on as well with the various rail speed plugins I found. If we can have specific rail lines have similar speeds to ice roads we can more easily have gradients as well.
See, I don't really like how ugly that'd look, personally. That's why I put it so low underground myself - where it;s not gonna be visible or ugly.
Does it have to be ugly? In my mind there are a wide variety of ways how these roads can look.
The downside of that is that people don't see the world they are traveling through. Which sort of defeats the entire idea of having above world travel as a way for people to experience more of it.
Having said that, both ideas require people to go up/down a fair number of blocks and do the same in opposite when arriving at their destination. So a mode of travel that sticks closer to ground level would have my preference. Hence me wanting to try out a variety of these rail plugins which allow you to selectively make specific lines or even sections of lines faster.
I would also vote for underground, even though I know it's more work.
Another thing to test is how well transitions through portals work. IIRC Mojang improved how entities such as boats and minecarts travel through portals, so perhaps we can have nether "fast lanes" incorporated somehow.
TNT cannons are actually fairly simple to build and don't require too many resources to make it turns out. I can help out with any tunnel boring next server.
Tbh, even without them, it didn't take as much time as you'd imagine. The only real bottleneck was the near-constant lava caves at those y-levels, especially when the biome was an ocean. But even with that factored in, I could clear out 2000-3000 block expansions within the same day
while vibing to Taylor Swift's discographyWith the TNT cannon method, the lava pools will also be somewhat of a problem if you dig as deep as I did (which was an intentional design decision to avoid people finding the De Lijn line and/or breaking into it while mining in a cave). You can avoid this by digging just a little bit higher, assuming you accept the potential "risks".
I already said it in reply to pickles, but moving everything underground sort of moves the "issue". The whole idea of having overworld modes of transport that can compete is also that people experience the overworld more and get to see things along the way. Not have things be detached islands.
Like, a metro is great if you want to get around quickly, but if you want to experience a city above ground trams or light rail works much better.
I do like the idea of nether fast lanes though. If we can have more reliable portal transfers with transport we can actually have a fully connected transport network. Has anyone tested what happens when you ride a railcart into a end portal as well?
I did test it on this season for nether portals and it was not entirely reliable. Can't remember what exactly, there were some issues.
I think we are dealing with a couple of competing use cases as well. It seems like some are going for fast travel to compete with options like nether roof and elytra, while others are more interested in aesthetics. I think there is a fair amount of overlap, but not 100%.
For sure. Form, function and how people view them is always going to compete on a multiplayer server.
The main reason I am interested in other mods of transport competing with the nether roof and elytra is in the context of this comment.
Specifically this
It's what prompted me to kick off this entire discussion about possibly closing the nether roof, etc. If we then end up putting all transport underground we might as well just use the nether roof as having everything underground kind of defeats the purpose, in my mind anyway.
Anyway, I also understand @TaylorSwiftsPickles objections against having floating ice ways all over in the skies. I think that they can reasonably be decorated, but it might be a bit much if we have a lot of that going on.
Which brings us back to @j0hn1215 trying to figure out if we can make ice ways that follow the gradient of the landscape better. Which I think is a nice approach but if that isn't possible would make faster rail something we might want to look at.
Yeah, my issue with sky rails is also aesthetic, but mostly on bluemap; Floating islands or your floating glass house always rendered oddly when viewed from a distance.
And if we do use a rail mod, we do want to make sure that it doesn't interfere with standard minecart tracks used in farms. I feel like added a copper powered rail (or similar) that boosts speed would be best, as minecarts would have strictly vanilla behavior unless you added a unique mod-added block.
Not a mod, server plugin. I found a few I listed in a comment replying to gravysleeve. They all seem to have the option to configure it on a per line basis. Either through signs or the block the rail is placed on.
As I said, I am planning to test the ones I have found to see how they perform. I'll keep y'all posted on that.
Alright, I spun up a local paper server today. I ended up trying two plugins because these turn out to be the only ones that are updated recently.
hsrails works by placing a special block under powered rails which multiplies the speed. The block can be configured, by default it is red_stone. There is also a hard brake block which by default is soul sand.
Endhanced rails can also work by special blocks, but also by having the player hold a special item. It also has some other options like a loading/unloading system that makes carts wait until they are full/emtpy.
Both work well, though enhanced rails felt a little bit smoother. There are some caveats, you need to slow down for corners and gradients otherwise you will derail. But, acceleration is extremely quick making it not much of an issue.
Speeds
Most of these plugins seem to be limited by minecraft so they all have the same upper speed. From my quick testing
30 m/s32 m/s40 m/sNote: Takes a long time to get to that speed.68 m/sNote: Probably maxes out even higher but also takes a long time to get up to speeds.Edit: sorry, didn't include the chicken cannon...
My thoughts
Ice roads really are the best mode of transport for long distances. I still think that where terrain allows my personal preference would be to have them above ground. Simply because I enjoy traveling through a landscape more than through a tunnel.
More importantly, boosted rail can compete with flying which in my thinking makes rail extremely viable for localized semi long distances. I think it is worthwhile to pick one of these plugins and ask that tea installs it for next season.
Bonus test subject screenshot
Your thoughts?
@j0hn1215, @TaylorSwiftsPickles, @mendanbar, @IsildursBane, @GravySleeve, I think I got most people who left a message about this specific topic?
Well, it's not like you'll actually see that much detail... You'll see the far-away things pretty clearly (esp. assuming you have DH installed, or at least bobby) but when you're moving at 260 km/h on a blue ice highway, all the nearby details get really lost because you only have so little time to view them. And if the DeLijn line was enough to give some people motion sickness - with its near-zero amount of detail - I imagine it gets even worse when there's so much detail going on.
Okay, but what about the rest I wrote out. I realize your preference is for underground as far as ice roads go. That much is clear :)
No opinion on a specific plugin pick but I am fine with the idea. Thou mayest proceed.
Of the two, I'd prefer Enhanced Rails personally, for one reason in particular. I want to make rails go slower than default for my project and it seems hsrails doesn't let you do that, you can only go faster. Unless I'm reading Enhanced Rails description wrong, it seems that would be possible to have a half speed powered rail.
Hrm, not sure if that is possible. But, if you are looking to slow down rail for loading and unloading then enhanced rail does have another very nice QoL feature.
I was reading this section on slowdown blocks, so it's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like you could use them for what I want.
Edit: The overall goal is to hopefully have powered rails that don't boost you to their top speed, but rather a lower top speed. Imagine riding through the volcano with how fast some sections were, it would've been nice to slow down so you could take in the scenery more.
Looks like you read it correctly. Extreme slowdown makes it go at
2 m/s. I figured that sandstone is a better material than sand for this as well.My only worry with enhanced rails is that it only ever has gotten two updates and is not open source. Hsrails has been maintained more and is open source meaning that tea and I (and possibly @hamstergeddon who was looking for projects :P) can fork it and maintain it.
Anyway, that's all technical. It also looks like hsrails also has a slowdown block config and we could in theory look at adding multiple blocks ourselves.
If hsrails also has (or could have) the option for slower rails, that would be fine with me as well. The loading/unloading stuff with Enhanced Rails doesn't really matter to me personally. Whatever you all think is best!
It definitely shouldn't be a block like sand that has gravity. Sandstone is a better option, but I'd advocate for a darker colored block that can blend in with more things aesthetically while also being relatively easy to obtain and unlikely to be used accidentally. Maybe Cobbled Deepslate?
Yeah I can see your wish there. You might be reading it right as well, I'll test it in a bit to see what happens with slow down blocks exactly.
Is the derailing thing added by the plugin? I thought vanilla didn't care about stuff like this.
No, both plugins mention it as a limitation of Minecraft. It isn't guaranteed to happen, but still likely.
Anyway, besides that, thoughts?
I'm all for it. Enhanced rails sounds especially good because (with the special item config) there is very little chance that someone might be unaware of the mechanics and accidentally activate high speed rails when building a farm.
I think my preference would be to play it super safe and use both a custom item with a custom name.
Also, I would like to suggest we use the red mushroom as the item "power up", because everyone knows that mushroom=speed in Mario Kart.
With the special item there is no brake block I think though. Something I'd need to test. Also people would need to know to hold the item. I guess we can have a chest of mushrooms at spawn and such.
If we went with blocks we'd have to use something other than the defaults I think. Redstone blocks are especially way too commonly used in farm designs.
Maybe something like blue or packed ice?
Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
I think there are several things we are trying to balance, and I doubt everyone will reach a consensus, but thought I would list them out:
I think the biggest hurdle is to try and solve the convenience in building, while maintaining aesthetics. Plugins would improve some of the speed issues, but I think still has issues with everyone having different opinions on how the transit system should be built.
We don't need to be in full agreement, that isn't going to happen anyway. If we end up with transport networks similar to this season but where rail can at least compete with flying I'd already be very happy. Which, from what I have looked into now, is very much possible with one of the rail plugins. Neither of them impacts technical farms and are as easily accessible early game as normal rail.
Building transport is always going to be a bit repetitive, but I'd be much more motivated knowing people might actually use it this time around. Overall, I quite enjoyed building the purple line and parts of the lime and orange lines.
As far as ice roads go I feel like they make more sense to start closer to ground level as dropping to bedrock and traveling up makes them feel slower. But above ground they will be slightly more bulky than rails and normal roads so I fully understand people wanting them not dominating the landscape.
In the end it will still come down to the people who end up building them. With high impact stuff like that it is always nice if wishes of people are respected as much as possible but nobody is ever going to be entirely happy. But in the end things looked like they did because people asked for opinions but then started building it. First the red line by hamster, then the central hub because Bront asked to pick it up, etc, etc.
But that is also why I am trying to talk about it now. Not to force the issue or force my opinion, but try and reason out a bunch of options and get a good feeling for opinions about these things. Not just the things people focus on, but their overall view.
Talking about bluemap, if you do end up doing stuff on the nether roof again. I was playing around with bluemap and it turns out you can easily configure it to also do the roof.
I think a benefit for an underground transit compared to the nether roof is a transit system acts as an unmanned guided tour. Transit (especially a line based one) takes a player to all the big landmarks, without someone having to give them a tour (or leave the game to look at Bluemap or Tildes). Even if you do not see the landscape, it still adds a big benefit, and I feel like the nether roof doesn't provide that.
That's true I suppose. Though I feel that if it is above ground it will also add a better sense of direction and awareness.
I am not opposed to some underground transport. Certainly with mountains it isn't always practical to go around or over them. I just don't think underground should be the default.
For overground transport let's give all saddled pigs a permanent 255 speed boost :P
Sadly still out of town until Sunday evening so probably unable to hop on unless maybe tomorrow afternoon I can use my wife's laptop for a few hours using rural Canadian farm internet
Depending on when Tea plans to shut down, I may be able to squeeze on for a bit tomorrow morning. However, if the plan is to shut it down tonight, no worries
Midnight Pacific time.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. A lot of us have died already!
I should have spare time this afternoon, so I might hop on to just say I was on it. My guess is that I will not last long, since I will probably have to crank my render distance down real low
If you can make it to 279, -945 there's a safe island base complete with:
Well it seems like Prism Launcher is causing issues (or rural farm internet woes) so I have doubts that I will make it on. If I make it on, I will probably try and get myself established without looting others attempts
Thanks for the base, Mendanbar. I was planning on building an obelisk on the island, but a drowned with a trident had other ideas.
There should be a half stack of dried kelp for smelting in the house for any other projects!
There is talk of making the next world semi-hardcore. After you die you’ll be temp-banned for about 10 minutes. What do you all think?
Hard disagree, it's going to be extremely frustrating for everyone after the first couple of days.
Yeah, gonna have to agree with TSP here. Time is precious, if I wanna sit down and play minecraft, I don't wanna have to kill 10 minutes while also stressing about losing my gear.
You framed it well with some players who have shorter windows of time to play, that it could be discouraging instead of a challenge.
Well, that was sort of the idea. Making it bit more again like a survival server. See my other comment where I pinged you.
I also plan to build a giant megastructure in the sky as my big project next season and I'd like to start as soon as possible once we start, but not having access to shulkers and an elytra would make it next to impossible. I agree a lot of people drop off after a build or two, but I don't necessarily agree that the reason they dropped off was because others reached the end. Most people who play minecraft never even go to the end, so I feel it's more the early game ending for them which causes the dropoff rather than reaching the end game (which feels a bit counterintuitive to say so I hope it makes sense). I do agree though that we shouldn't rush the dragon in the first few days, I think we should try to organize a specific day/time for people to go do it as a group.
Random thought: If that megastructure is going to be something like a sky city or anything, feel free to discuss with me on how we could tie the lore of our future bases together :)
Yeah, a sky city is the idea. I don't have any lore planned to be honest, which is shameful as someone who occasionally builds worlds for Dungeons and Dragons. Do you already have lore planned? I could build off of what you started if you wanna DM me (unless it isn't secret).
Oh, it's definitely not a secret, I've posted around here about it a couple of times. The gist of it is that I'm going for a late-Cold-War-era East bloc town (themed after Poland), specialising in nuclear technology. That'd for sure include a nuclear energy factory and distribution grid, but potentially more. There's also going to be a lot of "secret underground cultures", but on an "international" scale that's fairly irrelevant.
There's also always the potential I might collaborate with someone else so their base becomes the "traditional district" of the town - I dropped the idea to Faye and Nankeru recently, for instance - but we'll see depending on their time availability and mood.
That aside, depends, really. If you're going more futuristic, I could potentially consider going for my imagination of how this East bloc town would look in an alternate universe in, say, 2050. A random idea on my behalf based on this specific possibility could be to tie the two bases together in "space race"-like or "cold war"-like themes.
I don't think there's a point to specifically agree on any specific details because it's just a silly lore idea and it's not worth burning ourselves out for it, but it's definitely nice to consider some lore, no matter how small or big any "lore-related additions" would be.
I'm planning to build a solarpunk city with a giant tree and tree houses, and a rail line running through the city. Other than that, not much planned.
Even just with that I definitely see a few ways to have some overlapping lore! E.g. consider the "mindset difference" - one's solarpunk and integrates nature, the other's nuclear, cold, and brutalist. Either way of course, feel free to drop any ideas anytime you get any :)
I am planning to have a shooting game integrated with the rail line, maybe its mandatory combat training for all residents of the city, to protect against foreign invaders stealing their tech.
Yeah I am not in favor of blocking of the end. And I also don't want to try and force implement things that would cause people to drop off. I basically wanted to at least discuss some ways that might make it a bit more fun again as a survival server, and also insensitive people to be a bit more invested in infrastructure and all that.
As I also said here I am open to exploring other ideas. The idea of having to spent a little bit of time in spectator mode is simply the first one that came to mind. Others could be that we simply decide that some items will not have a community stash (like elytra) so that people who want to use them can still get them but not everyone is flying around the entire time.
Another thing I just thought of earlier is the entire nether situation. As I suggested here having the roof be less of a quick travel area might be something to explore.
Certainly the elytra and nether roof ideas wouldn't impact people who just want to build. It would mean that there just needs to be other infrastructure to use to get to some farms. I believe minecart speed is still configurable? We could explore having more rail lines with higher speeds for example.
And to be clear, I am not saying we have to change. But now does seem to be a good time to consider if we want changes and what they would look like.
Yup, I wasn't ready at the time, but it was also fairly short notice.
I'm totally open to the idea of not having community elytra available or not using the nether roof as much/at all, but increasing minecart speed would definitely ruin my plans. I intend to put a minecart ride through my base again, similar to the volcano, but I want to make it a shooting game. What I'd really like is a mod to allow powered rails with configurable speeds, similar to how a repeater has 3 modes, it would be cool if you could toggle 3 (or more?) different options for how fast each rail pushes the cart.
Having minecart speed configurable per line would be the ideal yeah.
Not having community Elytra available is something I personally think might have the biggest impact. It might even result in some end infrastructure from various people venturing out to get Elytra. It is also the easiest to implement as we can just agree on it without any plugins needed.
I was ghosting around on the server and also talked with Bauke and Hamstergeddon about it a bit. For the Nether roof, some things we discussed was having some sort of world border type deal on the roof for farms that only really work there. It's something I feel like is worth discussing/exploring a bit more.
I found this mod, it isn't updated to 1.21.8 yet, but the developers still seem to be active on it with a 1.21.7 version uploaded this month. It doesn't quite do what I would want, but is the best I've found so far. Vanilla-friendly and server-side only required. https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/highspeed-rail
Did some searching, going to dump a bunch of plugins I found (that look like they might still be updated) here for us to sort out at some point. There seem to be a few that work through either signs or the material rails are placed on.
Minecart speed plus:
hsrails:
NyoomCarts
Fast mine carts
Enhanced rails
Edit
This one seems like it is fun! :P https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/traincarts.39592 (just thought it was funny, not seriously proposing it)
One thing to keep in mind with mods that adjust speed based on the placement of a modifier block would be how that may impact farms that utilize rails to move stuff around. Probably pretty easy to work around that though, assuming the modifier block is configurable.
Yeah, ideally we'd choose something that leaves everything on normal speeds by default and only messes with the speed when we want to.
I doubt that this server is interested in going too heavily modded, but a mod like Create has really cool trains that could be used for faster transportation without needing to buff the speed of minecarts.
Does that requite client side mods? Because that is something that previously has been shied away from, making the server as accessible as possible in that regard.
Unfortunately it is a client-side mod. If the Tildes community ever does decide to do a lightly modded server though, I would highly recommend Create because of how creative (pun unintended) you can get with it.
Tbf, Daychilde kind of used to run a modded tildes minecraft server, but I think almost nobody ever joined. Not that I've checked, as I had opposed that idea while the vanilla server was running, but even he himself was very often on the vanilla server, so I can assume as much.
Just a separate reply, but I just realized something cool. Using Happy Ghasts replaces the need for much scaffolding. I was playing around with them a bit today and while sitting on them, you have full access to your inventory so you can just move them around to the places where you want to build.
Not trying to say you don't need Elytra or anything, just a neat realization I had and wanted to share.
Yeah, the Happy Ghasts are a part of the reason why I wanted to build in the sky next time! I definitely plan to include ghast docking stations. But they are pretty slow and you can fall off of them while building with them, so an Elytra is still preferable.
To give a bit more context behind the idea. I coined it because this season there was a lot of "speedrunning" going on. For example the dragon was slain in the first few days, people had relatively easy access to elytra after a week or so. A lot of people also seem to drop off once the "challenging" bits are done and they have done a build or two. Basically I was thinking about a way, that I thought was relatively low impact, but would slow down things a bit more.
So, I was thinking about ways to make it a bit more like a survival server and one thing I came up with is the death timer. Ten minutes or even shorter seemed like a reasonable way to achieve without making it extremely annoying.
Funnily enough I figured that you and @gravysleeve would be opposed but for different reasons. For gravy I figured it would be about the heads, but I also figured we could work around that since we now know we can generate them.
Anyway, it is the one idea that popped in my head after considering my death on the server this weekend. Any other would be welcome, I am also not death set on any changes but I figured we might as well give them some honest consideration before a new season starts.
Right, heads are another thing. For my base I'm gonna end up needing upwards of 200 unique heads if not significantly more, and I'm certainly not going to be going around pestering OPs for them every time I need a new one or a copy of an old one.
Either way, implemented as suggested, I think it's going to be really bad UX all around. If you want to make the game harder for everyone, it should not directly interfere with UX. The player shouldn't "mysteriously" be temp-banned from the server as a punishment for dying. That'd be the opposite of fun, and it doesn't make the game harder, just a lot more annoying.
If you do want to make the game slower or harder, you should be able to achieve this in an immersive way. For instance, make game progression slower or harder by slightly or moderately altering minecraft mechanics with datapacks in a vanilla-compliant manner, or turn off natural regeneration for X weeks, or anything else.
I mean, I am sure there is something we can come up with that would not involve "pestering OPs for heads" :) A custom command people have access to, for example. That's something I see as solvable. In fact, I think it makes sense to look at implementing something like that regardless.
I am not sure why @teaearlgraycold went the terminology of "temp-banning" because that isn't exactly what I had in mind.
The idea I coined is not that people should be kicked from the server or stuck on the respawn screen when they die. My point of reference is this weekend's server, where someone would be able to spectate until they respawn. Which in my mind isn't being banned, just being limited in what you can do for a short period of time while still being on the server. I feel like that would still be immersive. But, I can also see why you'd see it otherwise.
Anyway, like I said, I am not death set on this idea. But, I do want to provide the proper context for the idea so it can be properly considered. If you are still opposed, I completely understand, no hard feelings there either.
Heck, I am not even sure it is the right thing to focus on. I do know that after a certain point the server was effectively almost creative and that this point was reached very fast.
Maybe data packs are something we can play around with.
@IsildursBane identified the easy access to Elytra as another thing. I don't think we should prevent people from flying if they want to. But maybe instead of going for technical solutions, we can agree to make some things not available as community items? So, if you want to have an Elytra you will need to go to the end yourself and get one. This would put a bit more focus on other means of travel, like ice roads for example.
And maybe we end up agreeing to not change much if anything at all. I just figured that now is a good idea to at least throw some ideas around and explore them honestly. Because the next server is still a while away, but the previous one still fresh on our mind. Which makes this a good moment, in my mind anyway, to do this spitballing and brainstorming.
This would be fantastic! It really is annoying to change skins and have to kill yourself repeatedly to get custom heads for stuff!
This would probably be the simplest way to do what you want honestly, but I bet there would still be a few of us eager to get an elytra quickly. I think we should just say no community elytra (or make one available only after several months have passed) and no defeating the enderdragon for a couple weeks (this gets me wondering though, couldn't you just immediately bridge out without defeating the dragon to get an elytra? or is there a barrier of some kind before it's beaten?).
As far as creating a custom command goes for giving player heads. It seems that it is possible with plugins like this one. So we might be able to set it up so that you can give your own head to yourself. That would remove a bunch of the needing to kill yourself tedium.
But tea also mentioned we can do bespoke plugins for the server for simple functionality. I feel like this might fall under that.
Though it feels like it would be fun if we could make it so that you need to craft your own head... :P
That isn't really a "but", of course people will be eager to get them quickly, the idea is that they just have to work slightly harder for it and not just the first person to bring back the community elytra.
As far as the dragon itself goes, I feel like people should have an opportunity to know in advance when it will be beaten and have some hope of joining in that isn't a mad scramble. I mostly included the Ender dragon being defeated as an example of how quickly some things moved just so people go industrialize the resources behind it. At some point it will need to be defeated and not everyone can be there, just maybe not in the first week and such short notice ;)
I guess it also comes down in a difference in play styles, which is absolutely okay. I am not trying to pass judgment, but having quick access to all resources and travel methods does somewhat run counter to people who want a bit more of the feeling of game progression. It is possible to do it alone, but given we are on a server together that almost requires somewhat exiling yourself and a lot of discipline.
No clue, if it is possible that just feels like an interesting extra challenge to me. Are you able to bridge out without the dragon targeting you? Like I said, I am not against people wanting to get their hands on Elytra quickly. I just think it might make more sense to have them be a bit more rare and precious.
I looked it up, it is possible to bridge out or use a flying machine to get to the outer islands without defeating the dragon first. I would have guessed the world border would be expanded after defeating the dragon or something like that to prevent it.
Consider me...intrigued! :D
@gravysleeve @taylorswiftspickles @creesch @isildursbane
(I hope I’ve correctly tagged your names here)
I’m going to start with the assumption that wanting players to be present for killing the dragon is partly for the experience of killing the dragon (on smaller servers with friends, I’ve really enjoyed bringing the less combat-capable players to help defeat the dragon for the first time, and they’ve expressed that despite their initial hesitation, they really enjoyed being brought along so they could contribute in their own way) but also part of it is that defeating the dragon creates a portal and makes it much more possible to explore the End.
If I’m trying to solve for these two issues, then my suggestion is to reset the end dimension a few times per week (to allow for timezones and schedules) for the first two months of the new server? I could imagine a reset on a Wednesday and two resets on weekends, deliberately timed to give different timezones prime advantage of the fresh new End dimension.
This means that people could still plan ahead and join forces to defeat the dragon, and if anyone misses out or can’t make it in the first few days or the first week, there will still be opportunities.
There are a few possible drawbacks that I’ve thought of and possible ways to mitigate them. For example, the dragon gives an enormous amount of XP so an eager and successful dragon-slayer could farm the dragon for XP. However, given the speed of some modern (and even some older) XP farms, I don’t think this is a game-changing issue.
Or an elytra-hunter or shulker-collector could write down the coordinates of end cities and farm them. I think this could be an issue, partly to make elytra and shulkers much easier to get hold of in the first few weeks, but also because a potential bad actor could deliberately hoard all the closest elytra spawns for themselves by flying ahead of players much faster than the first-time hunter. In order to mitigate these risks, I propose that each reset of the End dimension also randomises the seed, so that writing down coordinates doesn’t carry across from one week to the next.
Another consideration (which I feel is a benefit to slowing down the server, but which might be controversial) is that this would mean any Ender Ender (Enderman-based XP farms) would be reset, and therefore make XP more difficult to come by for any players who aren’t directly slaying the dragon. My argument in favour of this is that overworld- or nether-based XP farms exist, and that after the agreed time (I suggested two months, but that’s not mandatory) the End stops being regularly reset, and Ender farms can then be established.
If there are any tweaks to my suggestion or significant drawbacks that I haven’t considered here, please feel free to comment — I’m eager to hear other ideas! I just figured I’d put my two cents out here to contribute to the discussion.
It's also possible to just respawn the dragon with end crystals, we don't need to do a reset of the whole dimension. We just didn't resummon the dragon last server for fear of destroying the sand duper.
It is a neat idea, but probably would be slightly overkill.
Honestly after having talked it over with various people I think that for what I noticed the following things will be enough.
I suspect that the roof infra might be something that still get opposition. Though if I am reading the room right (including chatting on the server) most people seem to be okay with giving that a go as well.
I've always been a more casual player. I've never actually slain the end dragon or gotten all the elytra stuff myself, my experience has typically been more of building things. I've always viewed Minecraft as "virtual Legos".
I really like the various skills everyone on the server has brought, because I know I just have never gotten to the "challenging" parts of Minecraft, but glad others on the server were able to.
I was thinking of joining in, but this would really put me off.
Recovering your items may become difficult if you are temp banned for 10min as your stuff will despawn. We would either need to play with a gravestone mod or keep inventory enabled (which I personally would not like).
I'm in favor of a gravestone mod, but it's a pretty polarizing decision for sure. I usually run with the Vanilla Tweaks version "Graves" FWIW and it's never failed my small servers.
Either way a tempban would greatly discourage dangerous but absolutely useful projects, such as tildetown's high bridges. I'm definitely in favour of a gravestones "mod" altogether, but I do not support tempbanning people for every death. That's gonna kill the server near-instantly as only the most dedicated players will stay. I for sure won't.
As the builder of said bridges, having a slightly higher death penalty would have just resulted in more careful building. I do recognize your concern for it killing momentum though, and it is something to carefully consider. Also, if we were to play some games that have the potential for death, that would also be discouraging. On the other hand, the more careful playthrough may slow down some progression, and push back against the speed run to the endgame that we had on season 2.
Is it possible to temporarily disable The End? We could just timegate it for a few weeks if so. That way we get the slowed progress without the temp ban.
I quite like this idea, but am also against it for my own selfish reasons. My goal for the next season is to try and create the community storage system very early on (it will not be immediate though since it requires several farms to be able to create it). Blocking the end would prevent the shulkers that bulk storage requires, although maybe it would be freed by the time I am at that point or maybe I just gerryrig something temporarily for bulk storage.
Edit: Overall, I think that putting a time lock on the end would be fun and that we should do it. I might have to adjust my plans of starting community storage with a bulk storage and multi item storage quickly after server start, but I will figure it out.
Does anyone know of a spigot plugin or datapack that makes it harder to get to the end? I'm thinking of something like End Remastered which adds a variety of eyes to be found around the world to unlock the portal. Kind of a moot point if the plugin doesn't exist, but might be something to consider as an alternative to just locking it.
I did find this while searching, which adds a timer before the end is opened, and there is also just a straight up bukkit config for it.
That might be an idea. Besides the end, might also want to consider the nether?
It's trivial to get on the roof and have effectively means of fast transport. If we somehow discouraged that, would it insensitive other ways of transport and more build up in the actual nether itself?
I build the nether hub to be somewhat as a maze this time. Mostly as a bit of a joke because I knew most people would use the roof anyway.
Some farms highly benefits from being on the roof, but not all have to be. Having more of that infrastructure below the roof would possibly make things slightly immersive.
In fact, I did like the first season more, it seems that at that time more infrastructure was build in the nether rather than on top.
I think this is a very valid point. The nether roof is overpowered and lacks immersion. With the nether roof nether based farms are extremely easy. This is compounded with the concept that nether based farms are also really powerful. Then for transport, the nether roof + elytra is so effective that there tends to be very little infrastructure. I would not be opposed to setting a game rule that prevents stuff being built above bedrock
To add on to the nether discussion, if we use Terralith and Nullscape again for terrain generation, we should go ahead and use either Amplified Nether or Incendium this time too!
I wish there was a plugin that allowed ice to remain slippery with carpet on top. Having ice roads isn't always pretty, but being able to build colored roads that actually perform a function would be marvelous.
It's a fair point. I rushed the roof in the last season because I was trying to avoid flying, but still wanted a quick-ish way to get resources (and animals) between the cabana and town. I personally like the nether roof as an option, but I don't think I'll be deterred from playing if it gets disabled.
Yeah exactly, though some farms only really work on the roof. I wouldn't be opposed to some farms being build there. As I said else where, earlier when I was ghosting around on the server I talked with Bauke and Hamstergeddon about it a bit. For the Nether roof, some things we discussed was having some sort of world border type deal on the roof for farms that only really work there.
I think the only one that requires nether roof is the guardian farm for the most common design right now. Stuff like hoglin or gold farms are doable not on the roof, they just require more work to spawn proof or have lower output (both of which I think are valid trade offs). Minty proved with the wither skeleton farm that non roof based farms are possible, they just aren't the simple 2hr project of a roof farm
Honestly the guardian farm probably had way higher output than needed, if there's a design that works half as well it would probably still be more than enough for our needs.
I think the gold farm is probably the only one that needs to be on the roof to function properly right? And I'm not even certain about that, it might be doable just considerably more difficult.
Also, I don't think it would be possible to have a world border only on the nether roof, because it isn't a separate dimension from the nether itself. You'd have to find a way to have two different world borders in the same dimension.
I mean, tea (or me if I am still OP) could just throw down four bedrock walls that are ridiculously high, possibly with an access hatch from the proper nether. But if we don't need the roof at all, that sounds easier and better to me to be honest.
Guardian farms might be the exception, as @IsildursBane mentioned here. But those only require roof access during the build.
Oh, right, bedrock walls would do it if they went all the way to build height.
Gold farm would work below the bedrock, you would just need to spawn proof the area around it first to get good rates. The old meta for a project like this was to find a large lava lake to make spawn proofing easier
Same. I'm gonna start on my megaproject as soon as possible and shulkers are essential. Since it's also a flying megastructure, which I plan to build over land, an Elytra will absolutely be required.
That could also be an idea, although when I coined the death timer I was more thinking about slowing down things without making them impossible. Like, making it possible to explore the end if people want to, but also attach a slightly higher cost to it when they do die.
I'm not playing, so apologies for intruding, but how about lifesteal? You don't die permanently but there's still permanent consequences to it. Might encourage a bit of PvP too.
No apologies required! Although I'm not sure that encouraging PvP is necessarily what we are trying to accomplish, and we'd need a mod of some kind for any sort of lifestyle system, but we like to keep the game as vanilla as possible to allow anyone to log on without needing to install mods at all. I could see a system like that being fun to try though, like maybe if you start with a limited number of lives and if you kill someone you gain a life when they lose theirs.
Lifesteal is usually implemented as a completely server-side plugin, so no worries about mods! But if it's not what you're looking for, then no worries.
As the server is (probably) closed now... How many of you are still alive? Let's do a check-in!
I’m still alive. It may not be fair because I didn’t log in at all yesterday. I did manage to tame a happy ghast, and complete a pilgrimage to our cultural capital. And leave low brow graffiti where I could.
I'll go first. I'm still alive! I went from spawn all the way to the world border, and had a mini-trip in a pillager mansion along the way. Then I made it back to Mendanbar's mansion and made my way to almost spawn. I have one diamond to my name, but am otherwise rocking my iron helmet and chestplate + my golden pants and boots.
I'm lowkey surprised nobody bothered to murder me in the world border while I was away, considering I posted my exact coordinates as a test. :P
This morning (europe) I did witness @IsildursBane joining who had just driven 6 hours and was "not running on all gears", as documented here he made it to the island. At that time I believe @Durpady was also online, alive and kicking.
Figured I'd ping them to acknowledge their victory and so that can give their own account if they want to.
Yeah, I survived until the end, but also only played for about 20min. When logging on, I only had a minute or two before night fell so I chopped a few logs and then went into a hidey hole. With encouragement from Creesch I went to Mendanbar's island through the night on foot. Collected some resources along the way, and had to stop in a tiny island to cook up some steak. Managed to make it to the island safely, left a sign, then went to the nearby island to start my own settlement. However, after shortly starting my settlement, I had to log off.
Counts in my book!
Hey. I was doing well for a while, making progress in a lush cave, but wound up getting rolled by an Enderman I hadn't even realized I'd looked at. Kicked myself after the fact because there was a 2 block high cave passage I could've dived into to save myself. Died with a yellow Axolotl in my inventory... at least nobody got to see it happen.
Well I managed to survive, just barely! Totally had nothing to do with only being able to play for like an hour or so total.
I also almost died immediately because I spawned in and it was night and I started getting chased by a zombie. Barely escaped into the initial safe base with like 2 hearts left. Managed update the initial area with a small safe house for anyone else spawning in.
Also managed to make it to the cultural site!
To hijack the post a bit (sorry)
I've been getting hand pain from mouse, so I've migrated to trackpad, and it's helping.
Are my Java minecraft days over? I was never very good, and I have played Bedrock with a controller.
Anyone else use trackpads for Minecraft? How's controller to use on Java? My ham fisted builds likely to be even more rubbish than usual?
I heard vertical mice are helpful for hand pain but I have no first-handpun intended experience with them. May be worth it to consider trying a used or cheap one?
If you can see a physical therapist you should.
There are out the top of my head two mods that add quite good controller support to Minecraft.
A trackpad could work but also cramp up your hand, have you considered trying a trackball as well?
I haven't -- given that Mac OS has great trackpad support, that's the way I went.
I have vague memories last century of using a trackball to control a pointer, and I wasn't impressed at all. Maybe they are better now.
I suppose I could revert to mouse for minecraft. I'll have to test some stuff out. Cheers
Getting Minecraft working on my Mac would be the first step!
As far as getting it to work prism launcher at least is available for macOS with both a installer or through brew https://prismlauncher.org/download/mac/
I quite like trackballs, they are all optical these days (the sensor tracking the ball. But, there are a few varieties, mostly thumb control (logitech ergo for example) or index finger control.