How do you parent boys?
I would be interested in tips, thoughts, and experiences folks have had with raising sons. I work in healthcare (in finance) and am acutely aware that most of my colleagues are women, as were most of my teachers, and class mates in college. With this in mind, it seems that the feminine side of raising sons is well represented. I've been reading and soul searching about good practices for the father of a son but would welcome all perspectives. Another interesting aspect is that I've found many parenting books to be focused on mothers rather than fathers. The few I've found that are focused tend to be religious/ Christian. Nothing wrong with that but would like to hear the collected wisdom here. To be clear I am hoping to get specific thoughts and actions rather than a broad topic with concepts and ideals.
My son is 8 - he has two older sisters. Much of this will likely also be relevant for fathers of daughters. I think that I also have a slightly different situation than some other parents who have only boys - see a relevant Nate Bargatze bit in which he refers to boys as bobcats. My son is not a bobcat - he is thoughtful, kind, sweet, a bit reserved; I would guess he would be a fair 1:1 watch trade with Nate's daughter. Disclaimer over.
I always try to find ways to say "yes" to things. Whenever my son says, "Hey dad, I want to do [some activity]" I try to find a way to make that work. It might be something like "I want to get some Robux" or "I want to jump as high as I can on a trampoline" or "I want to make elephant toothpaste in the backyard"; whatever it is, I try to work out the best way to do it. I want him to explore and figure out the things that he likes, so his personality and his passions develop into whoever he is.
There are a lot of sports that I love, and a lot of activities that I love, and I try to share them with my kids, but I understand that I have to share things with them on their terms. For example, I love hockey, and I wish I had had the opportunity to play hockey when I was a kid. I gave my son the chance to play hockey, and he doesn't really care for it. That means that he has the opportunity to just stop; I do not have any of my own self-worth tied to him playing hockey. I have a wide variety of hobbies and interests, and I give him the chance to get involved in any of them, but if he doesn't want to get involved in them, I accept that. He likes board games, video games, hot sauce, disc golf; he doesn't like ultimate, lifting, cooking, movies. All of that is okay; he has interests, and some of them are the same of mine, and none of my self worth is tied to the things he likes being the same as the things I like.
I hug my son. I have taught him that hugging is normal. He sees me hug my family, my friends. It's okay to enjoy physically touching and being touched by other people. It's also okay to not like that. If he doesn't want to hug a relative, we don't force him to do so, but we set a positive example of doing so. Bodily autonomy is important, and we have also taught him to ask before giving a hug; he understand his bodily autonomy and other's bodily autonomy.
We have open discussions about gender roles. He has had some weird ideas in the past about which parent does which job; for example, we have a friend who has two moms, and my son asked "who does the cooking?" He was puzzled because in our house, and in his best friends house, dad does all the cooking. So we have a frank discussion about who does what in a family, and that there is no "job" that is for a mom or a dad in particular. He gets it now.
We encourage outdoor activities and put limits on screen time. All our kids get into lessons and some activity that is physical; for example, our son currently does piano lessons and ball hockey. You don't have to stick to the sport that you've picked, but you have to do something relatively active and healthy, preferably outdoors. On top of that, there are swimming lessons, usually for 1-2 weeks in the summer, to progress their skills at swimming. This is mostly practical; we swim a lot and want the kids to be good at that.
We have explicit conversations about processing emotions. My son wears his heart on his sleeve, which is great, but we talk about how to process things effectively; if someone says something negative to him at school, my son can take that really personally, and having a very emotional reaction to a bully can elicit more bullying. We have spoken about dealing with negative issues, and having a safe space to talk about things at home.
We have a "no trouble" card. If there's something that might seem like it would result in being in a lot of trouble, any kid can grab the "no trouble" card and come talk to me about whatever it is they want to talk about. It's mostly for show, because we're not really the sort of parents that yell about things, and we are pretty strong believers in natural consequences instead of unrelated consequences (eg. if you break something, you don't lose out on an unrelated activity as a punishment) and "no trouble" doesn't mean "no consequences". However, having an explicit no trouble card set the tone for kids bringing their problems and issues to us when they have a problem. In general, I recommend raising your son with the understanding that if they make a mistake, they should come to you, and you find ways to fix mistakes. If they make a mistake and they come to you, and you punish them, then you have trained them to not bring things to your attention, but instead to hide things.
As a parent, I make mistakes. Sometimes I say or do things that hurt my son's feelings, or that he otherwise doesn't like. Sometimes I do things that, after reflection, I don't like. When that happens, I sit my son down and I apologize for what I have said or done. It has been my experience that a lot of parents do not do this, but I try to model the behaviour that I want my children to exhibit. If I make a mistake, I own up to it, and that includes when I make a mistake in parenting. As a result, I find my son to be very good at owning up when he has made mistakes.
Could you elaborate on how this generally plays out?
Here are some examples. For simplicity, I have three kids, Kid1 (girl), Kid2 (girl), Kid3 (boy).
All the kids have chores that they're supposed to do. Kid2 is supposed to empty the lunch containers from all school lunches, and put them in the dishwasher when the kids get home from school. Sometimes Kid2 will forget; when that happens, sometimes my wife can be quite irritable, because it really throws a wrench into prepping the kids for school, so sometimes Kid2 will grab the "no trouble" card and bring it, and I'll help her quickly wash all the dishes and not give her any flack for it, no questions asked. Later on, I might ask her to clean up the dishes after dinner, or do some other chore as a fair trade. No muss, no fuss, no trouble.
Kid3 is supposed to work on his writing before he plays video games after school. He has a book, and he has to write a couple of paragraphs of his choice before he's allowed to get on a screen. Sometimes he forgets - he's 8, it's natural - so he'll grab the no trouble card and we'll figure out what sort of thing he can do as a make-up. He's really hard on himself, so he'll often suggest things like "no video games for the rest of the week" and I'll have to suggest something else instead because I need someone to play Boomerang Fu with, but he might do a more sizable writing project, or something; instead of having someone nag him about responsibilities, he just gets to try to figure out what he thinks is fair, and how to remind himself to take care of his responsibilities.
It's really just a reminder that we're here to fix problems, not to rub their noses in the things that they've done.
Ahh, so it's more of an "I recognize that I screwed up, let's deal with this together in a calm and sensible fashion" card.
I really like that idea — though we might change the name before implementing it. A shorthand way to admit that someone made a mistake could be really powerful, especially if we as parents make a point of using it when we screw up ourselves. Thanks!
Thank you for these comments, there are lots to learn from them!
One question I have regarding this: how do you make it clear that you are still some “authority” and not just some friend for your kids? I don’t have children yet, but I often see (I have a very high rate of educators in my family :D) that people have a real trouble finding the balance between the two extremes of “punishment parenting”, and “allowing everything”, and as a result many kids are absolutely uncontrollable (though often only for their parents, and may be well-behaved for the kindergarteners, but then there is often some deeper issue underneath, at least that’s what the professionals say).
Or is that kind of parent authority even important? I would believe it is, if for nothing else your commands in emergency situations should be adhered to (e.g. stop at the side of a road!). In my experience, if you seldom raise your voice, reserving it might well be enough to have them take you seriously, so it may not be a real problem — but I am very interested in your (both singular and plural) take on it.
There are some great questions in here. I've been letting the answers percolate; I'll do my best. I'm going to paraphrase them:
This was an implied question, but I think it is important to answer. Yes, my wife and I are both authority figures within our house. We are friendly parents, but we are most definitely parents, and the place from which permission flows.
I recognize that I am a figure of authority, but I don't know what it is about me that is authoritative. I think that some of the authority comes from being a fixer-of-problems and a caregiver; the compassion and understanding that one has as a parent gives one a source of authority. When our kids were young, sometimes there were times when we would by physically authoritative, in a gentle way, and I think that requires some specificity; for example, an child may pick up a toy and hit another child. If that were to happen, we would pick up the child who did the hitting and remove them from the situation; there would likely be scolding. So it is unfair for me to say that there's no punishments at all; I think discussion / scolding is a relatively effective punishment, and kids who are under 4 or 5 don't necessarily understand all the words, so some kind of physical action is usually required - to be clear I have never nor would I ever hit my kids, and I would strenuously advocate for anything other than physical punishment in almost every case but I would pick them up and remove them from a situation, and then hold them in my lap while we figured things out.
I wish I had a better answer for this, or something that came with some kind of direction, because it seems really reductive to say that I have authority because I have authority, but I guess that's what I'm saying.
I think it is. We are friendly with our kids, and we love them, and I'm lucky because I really like all of them too, but we are parents first, which means that sometimes we have to say no to things, and we have to do the things that kids don't want to do. Bedtime has been a common point of contention in the past, and it reminds me of a funny "no trouble" card interaction that happened a few years ago. Kid3 grabbed the card at bedtime, came to me with it, and said, "I'm not going to bed and I'm not getting in trouble about it!" He fully expected to go off and play video games for a few hours as a result. We had a discussion around it, and it was a good one, and we ended up adjusting his bedtime back a half hour over the next few weeks... but at the time, he did go to bed, and it was because parents make the rules.
I have definitely seen what you're talking about, and I think that people tend to conflate "consequences" and "punishments" and they think that if they get rid of punishments, they have to get rid of consequences. I think that in some ways, it's a bit of sophistry; a "consequence" for one person could certainly be a "punishment" to someone else, and people end up getting rid of all consequences to avoid punishments. I'll clarify what I mean as the difference.
Let's say your kid is at a park, and he pushes another kid down. There are a few different things that could happen, and they involve correction, consequences, and punishment:
So in this case, I think correction and consequences are important, but punishment is too far. Being the arbiter of consequences requires and perhaps bequeaths authority, and I think they are really important.
And here's an important thing that I haven't really explicitly said - I'm not sitting in judgment of parents if I see do something that I perceive as punishing their kids, because I don't know what things are like for them. I recognize that I have three kids that are fundamentally good and also really easy to deal with, and while part of that is because of the work that we have put into raising good responsible people, part of it is also that they have been relatively easy children to deal with.
Your family is very lucky to have you as a father :)
I really wish I can once be a father like you, but it seems very hard to be that patient, wise and consistent (especially this latter). Thankfully I still have time to grow as a person before I’m ready for children, even though at times I definitely feel some kind of biological pressure to have one (as I thoroughly enjoy playing with small children in my family).
Thank you for the kind words. One thing I'll say is that while I try to be consistent, and I try to be patient, sometimes I fall short; I try to be the best possible dad, and sometimes I miss the mark, because I'm human and I make mistakes, so I'll just reiterate that sometimes I fall short of the things I've outline here, and I just own up to making a mistake and apologize, and try to do better. I think it's an important part of being a well rounded parent and person.
What is wrong with his initial suggestion, besides the fact it impedes with something you want? Do you need to play Boomerang Fu? Do you need to play it with him specifically? His initial suggestion sounds reasonable to me; why not trust him with what he suggests?
I said the bit about Boomerang Fu for levity - I don't need to play Boomerang Fu, or have any need to play video games at all - but I think that taking away video games completely for a week isn't really a natural consequence, and it doesn't really fix what the problem is in any way; it just makes him sad, and it doesn't help foster any responsibility for actions.
The problem in this specific instance - writing practice before video games - is to teach him that we should do the things we must do before the things we want to do. If we just don't let him do things that he wants to do, I'm not really sure what that achieves, other than making him not enjoy his time. I'll clarify here: I want my kids, and myself, to get the most enjoyment from life that is possible. I want him to fire up Satisfactory and work out the math for his strange little factory, and I want him to invite a buddy (or better yet, me!) to play a fun little video game and spend fun time together, and I want to see the weird stuff he builds in Terraria or Roblox. Games can be super creative and also teach some valuable skills and I don't want to stifle that.
I think a better solution is to figure out ways for him to remind himself to do his chores. We have figured out a variety of ways to make that happen as a result, and they end up with him being more consistent about him doing his chores, not resenting us when we point out that he hasn't done his chores, and him still being able to have his fun.
In this very specific case, I really don't want writing to be something that he ends up hating, because being able to write things down is a pretty important skill that he has struggled with. When we started out, sometimes he would lose video game privileges if he did things in the wrong order, and the result was that every time we said "writing time!" we had a sullen boy who was really not into what he was doing, and who wasn't actually making any improvements. So instead of taking away the thing that he wants to do, we sometimes even incorporate it into his writing project; now he's making a Minecraft themed comic book, and if I ask him if he's done his writing, he'll usually say, "Yup, just wrote out the next storyline!" but occasionally will say, "Oh, woops, I forgot, but I'll get to it in ten minutes."
Long story short, we stopped punishing him, and just talked to him and he's much farther ahead at time management, writing skills, and taking ownership of the things that he needs to do.
That's a really good point, I didn't consider that perspective. Thank you for taking the time to elaborate!
Could you elaborate more on this when you get the chance?
EDIT: Also, what would be an example of a natural consequence in the case of the "writing before video games" example?
We have come up with a few things that help him figure out what he needs to be doing.
"Afternoon Huddle" - when the kids get home, it's still during the work day for me, but Kid2 and Kid3 usually come down to my office to say hi and to have a brief chat about their day, and then I'll orient them for the rest of the day. This is usually just after my work's afternoon huddle, so we have a mini check-in as well; the kids think it's funny, but it's actually a great way to kickstart the evening. We talk about the kind of day they had, whatever interested them that day, and we go over the schedule. These usually cover more than just writing; it might look something like this, and the kids have input into it, I don't just decide:
So he has a list of the things, and he knows which are optional, and which need to get done. At this point, we often go to:
Smart Schedule. We have a pretty tech-positive house, so at this point, Kid3 will often say "Hey Google, remind me to do my writing in an hour" and then "Hey Google remind me to clean up Nerf stuff at 5pm". The smart speakers will let him know at the appropriate time to do what he needs to do.
There are days when we're not sticking to our routine, though, and those days can be a bit of a struggle. Right now we're working through some ideas as we transition to summer vacation time. Today we did alternating timer / task; if he was doing something fun, set a timer for some amount of time (1/2 hour or hour), and then check in with himself to see if he had other tasks to do. It worked pretty well; when the timer went off, he would go over his list of tasks for the day, do one of the chores, then figure out a fun thing to do and set a timer and do that for a while, then do a task, until all the tasks were done, interspersed with fun activities. He did a good job, and did everything that was on his list with time to spare. Today's list was pretty close to the example list, and also included pick up laundry and put away suitcase (he just came back from a week at his grandparents).
All that is to say, that most of what we do now is to treat the kids no differently than I treat my coworkers when we are talking about the daily tasks that we have to do for work; things get assigned, generally don't get micromanaged, and we check in to see if there are problems.
Typically we would just make writing the next thing that he would be doing, no matter what else is going on, and instead of 20 minutes, he might have to do 30 minutes. Sometimes this is a very minor consequence; he sits at the table, does the writing, we check it, we're all good. Other times, it is more of a consequence because he will miss out on something. There have been times when I was going to do something and he wanted to come with and he couldn't; there have been times that his friends have come by to play, and he was then not available. He has missed out on Roblox events with his friends, and one time missed out on most of a game of spikeball, which felt especially bad since he loves spikeball. Generally, we don't add punitive damages to things, and we try to encourage him not to do so either. He has a real issue with what we call "cutting of his nose to spite his face"; he'll cut himself off from fun things as a punishment for himself even when there's no real reason to do so, and we're trying to help him to move away from doing so.
Thank you. Our kids are younger, but this tracks perfectly for them, especially the oldest. It's like we've been hiking along just fine in the right direction, but someone just handed me a GPS.
The best part of this structure is that it's unconsciously teaching the fundamentals of how to adult. Is this something you've generally arrived at yourselves or is there a resource or two that you've found helpful in shaping this parenting approach?
I cheated in the resource department - my wife's first degree is in child development, which is like a cheat mode for good ideas on how to parent; she is probably our primary resource. I did read some books on parenting, but I couldn't tell you what they were - our Kid1 is going to turn 18 this year, and the last time I read a book she was very little - and I've read some of the textbooks that were on our shelves in our last house... but I couldn't tell you what those were either, as they are now in the Great Wall of Boxes filled with Books in our basement, and I have no idea where they are. Sorry - I wish I could give you some more concrete sources.
However, I think the best resource for us was has always been hearing from other parents who are dealing with or have dealt with the issues that we have. r/Parenting was pretty good for a while, and there was another parenting forum that I used to frequent but the URL eludes me. I'll look for it and see if I can find it; none of the top results when I searched felt right.
Thank you! We're a decade and a half behind — and far from struggling at this — but hearing your experience adds a structured clarity that's priceless. Thanks again.
You are more than welcome! I find that people who are likely to be introspective and wanting to gather knowledge at parenting (or other things) are usually the ones who are doing a great job, so I'm not surprised that you are not struggling.
I have loved every part of the journey of fatherhood, and one of the things that has been wonderful has been watching these tiny little things that you've made just with the stuff you have lying around your house then grow into full actual people. While I wouldn't turn back the clock for anything, I do envy you the delightful process in front of you, because it has been one of the central joys of my life.
I couldn't agree more. It's such an extraordinary daily pleasure.
Just want to chime in you are setting a really awesome example here and doing a great job explaining why you make the choices you do. Huge thanks from a learning parent of a toddler :)
Consequences should be relative to the offense. It seems as if dad thinks that the consequences of no video games for a week is more harsh and that the lesson can be learned from a less harsh result.
I think it's a very habit habit to go through life punishing yourself for your perceived shortfallings. I know a lot of people who have this tendency, and in my observation, it just builds misery on top of misery. It's not enough that they feel bad about their shortfallings; now they have degrade their self-care on top of it, which makes it even harder for them to achieve the things they wish to achieve. It's a trap.
I grew up in a no-punishment household, and I don't have this tendency. I feel bad about my shortfallings, but I focus on doing things that will help me correct them. If I forget to do something I meant to do, I don't punish myself by cutting back my luxury time; I do the thing as soon as I can, and I try to figure out why I forgot and fix it. Often it's because I've had too much on my plate lately and I actually need more luxury time, not less, so I schedule in some downtime for myself to mentally recover.
As far as I'm concerned, if you already feel bad for something and want to make up for it, you are already experiencing internal punishment. External punishment is for cases where the person isn't experiencing internal punishment, but they still need something to dissuade the behavior in the future. For sensitive or empathetic people, this is almost never necessary.
That is a good point. I agree. I grew up in a "punishment household," and as a result, I am now unlearning the self-deprecating behaviors that I developed as a child. It was made clear in my initial comment that I still view some things in a "punishment" manner, and I appreciate other perspectives pointing out the subtle negative impacts from even a "small" punishment like not allowing one to experience relaxing/fun activities as a part of self-care.
Man, I really appreciate the write up. Big kudos to you and your wife for being such empathetic, level headed, and purposeful parents.
That's wild. This is almost exactly how I deal with my son. It seems to be going great save for a couple annoyances.
The first thing is probably my temper. My dad used to scream and yell and I have to fight the urge to call down the thunder on my son.
The other thing is other parents. Objectively my son is poor to ok at most sports. Im not super concerned, but I do want him to understand working as a team and being accountable (along with structured physical activity). Some parents think their kid is gonna be the next lebron and it's pretty lame when their intensity spills over to your kid.
Yeah, parents can get even more intense than regular fans. I played soccer for many years growing up and later refereed for a while, so I know the range of fans well. Even had to eject a parent on more than one occasion.
I will say though that it would be worth reflecting on the nature of their expressed frustration. If they’re hassling the ref, criticizing many of the teammates, or pushing their own kid hard, then it’s probably their own personal issues and relationship to competition coming out. If, however, it’s more targeted towards certain players (even if it spreads out once they’re in a worked up state), especially if other parents have similar outbursts, it may be an indication that their kid is the frustrated one and has been complaining at home. I was certainly not the best, but I remember some years our town team (and always the school PE teams) had one or more kids who were consistently bad to the point that it seriously hurt the enjoyment of the rest of the team. Nobody who tries gets kicked mid-season, and PE is always inclusive, so it can suck for a long time. It was bad enough as a player, I can’t imagine what it’s like as a parent seeing your kid being made miserable and having little else you can do. I also don’t know what if do to help if the bad one was my own kid, wanting their happiness and help them grow, but also being mindful of their practical limitations and effect on everyone else.
Haha, my kids not that bad!
Oh man we played AYSO last year And I witnessed some heated parents. Unfortunately they were on my kids team, and kind of to your point, the dad in question had a son who is very talented and pretty supportive of my son trying and doing his best. Very friendly and encouraging. Basically he was an ace, played club soccer, fall and spring, indoor the whole 9. His dad had him playing with us to kinda fill in the gaps between "real" soccer.
So, super cool dude pre game and at practice but holy shit when that game started... Whew. Yelling at the ref, yelling at the opposing coaches, yelling at his kid, yelling at the opposing players. Almost came to blows on the sideline of an AYSO game. The ref called the game and had to disperse everyone. It was wild.
A lot of wisdom here.
Can I ask more about the no trouble system? Is it a way for you and your partner to say, hey, you won't get in trouble if you share this with us. Or is it trouble as in, I know this creates a lot of complications and I don't expect miracles but I want to approach you with it anyway just to talk it out?
I've given some really minor examples here but the idea is to remind the kids that we are on their side, and that while actions have consequences they don't necessarily require punishment. A lot of parents seem to get caught up on the punishment part of trouble; if a kid does something wrong, they want to make sure that the kid knows not to do it again. But I think consequences are a lot more natural than punishment. As an example from my own life, when I was 18, I totalled a family car. I expected there to be a lot of punishment, but there was no punishment; there was, however, a consequence. I could not drive the family car for a while. I wasn't in trouble, but my parents helped me save up money to buy my own car, and then I drove that instead. They weren't mad, but they certainly didn't want me driving their vehicle for a while.
Number #1 parenting tip of all time. Owning up to your mistakes. Your kids will mimic what you do.
Daniel Tiger taught us so much. "It's ok to make mistakes, try to fix them, and learn from them too."
I have one of each, and the approaches I take for both are the same:
Bodily autonomy is important. Others may not touch you without permission, you may not touch others without permission, and its wrong to try to coerce people to change a 'No' to a 'Yes.' Teaching this to both girls and boys is important to stop both child abuse early and rape culture later.
In that vein, my children both knew the proper terms for all the body parts (anus, penis, testicals, vagina, vulva, etc) by the time they were 3. This also means introduction of weird names for their privates is a warning sign.
It is important to feel your feelings. To recognize them. To not let them control you when it would do you or others harm.
It is OK to use force to stop someone from using force against you. Using force in defense is different from using force in offense.
I prioritize teaching giving away what excess you have, rather than trying to make money off it. From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.
School likes to use the term 'friends' to refer to classmates. This has led to some confusion. Not everyone you interact with is your friend, but its important to be as friendly and kind as you can. But friendship means reperocity.
Some rules are more important than others. Rules are ammoral. Sometimes you must break the rules to do what is right.
Edit: Remembered a biggie:
I will possibly make my own response to OP later, but I like your last two a lot.
The rules one is almost number one with my sons. There are some very important rules, and there are very good reasons to mind those. I try to impart that it's important to know what the really important things are that matter, and why they matter.
There are also an awful lot of rules that are useless at best, and it's nice to be able to identify them, consider why they exist, and let these bits of information guide a judgement call.
The friends one brings up a good point about unconscious language and how susceptible people are to accept things more with more repetition.
I do, when my sons talk about a classmate or teammate that I haven't heard about often, ask if that is a friend of theirs, and the boys know that it's ok for that to be true or false, so a lot of times they will answer like, "ehh, kinda," or whatever it is.
Thinking about it though, I might lazily use phrases like "your friends at school" to mean just his entire peer group, more often than I mean to.
I'm going to act on this.
My kids are young, and while I was surprised at teachers referring to classmates as "friends" I decided that I was fine with it as a way to introduce the concept. Plus, starting one's kids out with general friendliness as the default seemed healthy enough.
We've had conversations about certain kids and that it's fine not to want to play with them. And we've talked about how the choices we make determines whether others will want to play with us. But I think it's time to reclaim that "friends" word and draw the distinction between friends and peers. Thanks!
What's involved with teaching your kids the right names for body parts?
Well, as early as diapering, would just verbalize what we were doing. "Ok, now I'm going to wipe the poop off your testicles." That one was hard, because lets be real....they're balls. Little one started repeating back "pesticles," to which Mom replied "They sure are little dude."
Bath time was similiar, especially when bathing with mom or dad. When they grab or point "Yes thats my/your X", where X is any given body part. "Yes Daddy has a penis, but Mommy does not."
We began potty training around 2, and already some of those words were being repeated. They like to watch you use the bathroom. When using the toilet, "Pee comes out your penis, poop comes out your anus."
Even at that young age we expressed about bodily autonomy, so part of that was discussing "parts for you" and "parts others see." And that lead into consent, only parents/doctor/etc. Learning doesn't happen overnight, and with what we did our kids were well versed in body parts.
Depending on what age they are when the “why” questions begin, you might find that it is also sometimes a good tactic for preserving one’s sanity to actually make them answer their own questions. Plenty of times they just reflexively go on with their whys (especially when they are younger, a little boy in my family started it at 2.5 years old), and it is a great speech practice as well.
But yeah, just reply to them with the best of your knowledge, dumb it down but don’t lie.
Oh yes, if I know they know the answer or are capable of reasoning it themselves, 100%.
Then I think you're going to have to be more specific.
"Raising boys to be men" carries a connotation that you mean something more than just "How do you parent boys?" — but you haven't explained exactly what characteristics you're looking to instill in preparation for adulthood.
"How do you parent boys" is a much better phrase. My mind was thinking "preparing a son to be an adult" but that sounded overly wordy. I am trying to be a good role model and am very interested in others' approach to raising boys.
Done! I've updated the title of your topic.
I know you are looking for feedback from fathers, but all fathers including yourself are also sons. I think starting with asking yourself about the qualities you enjoyed and didn't enjoy about your father is a good place to start. Ask your friends what their dad did well or didn't do well. I think this is a better approach, because I think a son's perspective is going to be more honest than a father thinking they're doing things right. If your father wasn't present, and a present father is something you think is important for raising your son, then be sure to be present.
Something specific for you: I wish my dad would have been more involved in my hobbies and interests instead of trying to make me interested in his. My dad did a ton of cool stuff. He raced go-karts, maintained a wicked vinyl record collection, loved long evenings of catfishing, and was an incredible small engines mechanic. I wasn't really into those things though when I was young. I loved everything scouting; I loved playing concert music, and I loved playing baseball. I wasn't particularly good at any of those things, but I LOVED them. My dad seldom showed up for baseball games. When he did show, I usually had to listen to an earful of how poorly I played that day or it was a waste because I had a lot of bench time sometimes. He never did a single scouting thing with me, and he never came to a single concert band performance. He did, however, force me to the racetrack, take me to the workshop, drag me along fishing, and he sold a ton of his albums because he "figured I'd never be into them". Don't do that. I had a lot of confidence issues growing up. I thought, "how bad am I that my dad won't even show up for the things I've sunk hours into."
Anyways, I hope you get some of the advice you are looking for. Best of luck with fatherhood!
I am a guy and my kids are all boys; ages 16, 14, 12, and 9. I don't give a second thought about what it is to be male or to be a man other than being aware of the privileges that come with that. Just raise your kids to be your version of good people and don't doubt yourself.
I feel like if you had a girl you would understand the distinction and why it’s important. I doubt you would raise your daughter exactly the same as a son (and i don’t mean you would treat her worse or better, just different).
Like the saying goes not all plants needs the same amount of water.
Because I am a dude and have only boys I am aware that my perspective is lacking so its possible that you are right. However, even among my boys they all get treated differently just as a function of their unique personalities and how those mesh with mine. I feel like if i had a daughter it would be the same.
All kids are different, no two children are the same. This is true.
I don't think that extends to raising boys and girls differently. I think that mostly stems from people needlessly gendering children.
Look, raising boys is the same as raising girls; they are both children. What's more important is to see your child for what he/she is. Every child has a different need from another, and the best way to prepare any child for life, is to see their weaknesses and strengths, and try to help them work on their weaknesses, while improving their strength. Most differences between the behaviour of girls and boys, are cultural. With that in mind, if you live in a western society, it is important to instil the feeling of equality between the genders. I don't mean that you should point out how boys have it better in many respects to girls, but rather think about what you convey to your child. What do you say about other people, when your child is around? How do you act towards others? Children, more than anything, do as you do. Talk about respecting others, but also show it. And when you do bring up the inequalties, talk about the downsides of being a man! Men are more likely to be beaten up by other men. Why? Cause most of us are taught to be tough. That guy offend you? Puff up your chest and be aggressive. To change that way of behaviour, is to make sure that your child feels that their feelings are valid, but not something you always should act on. That guy being an asshole? Okay that sucks, but it doesn't mean I should act on my feelings and beat his ass. The inequalties are important, but the reasons to them is what you need to talk about. This is of course more relevant when they are older and capable of abstract thoughts. Which segway into my next point; keep it simple. Small children are not able to understand more complex thoughts. You explaining to your three year old that biting hurts your friend, and how that make him/her feel, is a waste of breath. Simply mark with a strong "NO. We don't do that". As they get older, explain, when they are younger, simply teach what to do and not to do. Engage in your childs life and development, and it doesn't matter what gender your child have; they will be fine. A man is only what we call one of the biological sexes, and it is a worthless attribute beyond that.
That seems pointlessly gendered. Is there an example of something that'd you consider "feminine" child rearing? Besides the obvious, like breastfeeding.
Honestly any childcare books that is particularly advertised to be "for MEN" is a red flag to me, and just indicates that there's probably a lot of good old fashioned toxic masculinity in there.
One suggestion that may help is the (fairly famous) book The Body Keeps the Score. It's not explicitly about childcare (it is, in fact, about trauma in general), but tl;dr most trauma comes from childhood detachment. The book really impresses on you that as a parent, what matters the absolute most for your child to be a well adapted adult is for you to be there and interact with them throughout childhood.
An a stereotypical "dad" thing is to literally do the opposite - be the stoic, detached parent, which per studies is just a good way to get your child to not like you and impart dysfunction and trauma onto their adult personas.
So it's probably not a good idea to do that.
I understand your skepticism.
But childcare books are almost universally targeted to women. I think a book of good childcare advice mixed in to the context of a chapter or two that helps manage the historical expectations of fatherhood would likely be quite useful. And marketing it "for MEN" is likely the way to ensure it makes the greatest impact, since men who are fine at abstracting the details out of all the existing mother-oriented materials likely don't need much help in the first place.
It is more of a reaction to how many "mother" books there are. I agree most child-raising information is pointlessly gendered in that it assumes that the reader is the mother.
To me it seems like the trend of unnecessarily masculine branding like “wipes FOR MEN.” I’m a guy and I’ve never seen the point of this stuff since it just seems like cringy marketing towards insecure bros. However, if it gets them actually interested in parenting and isn’t full of toxic ideas about gender roles, great.
Is it on the parents to know what girls will be into when their son will be of age and mold him to be that? I think parents telling a child to be one way because that's what girls are into is really damaging. Parents are often really bad at knowing what girls in their children's generation are into. Let the kid be who they want to be, and if at some age they want to change to be attractive to the kind of people they're attracted to, they can do that. Especially considering about 20% of gen z adults, ie people age 18-25, which is the youngest group we have polling for afaik, are lgbt+, which makes the arguments kind of fall apart anyway
So what do you mean for it to be a man then? For me, I had no problem with women once I realized my main problem was that I didn't realize I wasn't a good person.
Some of the people I know deepest in with community service are also some of the meanest, if you don't follow their particular belief system. Charity alone does not a good person make.
Can you clarify what aspects or qualities make someone a man?
I'm raising five boys at the moment. In a way I think your question is quite broad, like others here have said, so I might just try to give you some general tips, though I don't know how helpful that will be.
I'd add that I'm no expert, just another dad. Don't be worried to get advice, even if it's aimed at mums, because it'll still be relevant to you, you just might need to filter it for people who actually know what they're talking about. Better a psychological expert on boys than a mummy blogger, but you may well find value in what the latter says at times to.
I promise you this one is not gender-specific lol
Haha, I'm stuck with a data sampling problem there. It can be hard to know if something is a boy thing or a kid thing. I suspect it's more often the latter.
Yup can confirm the rough-housing is not gender-specific either. It's more about whether there was any exposure to roughhousing. I've noticed few people feel comfortable roughhousing with their daughters.
I've also noticed some parents let bullying slide as 'boys will be boys,' and that pisses me off. The difference between roughhousing and bullying is one of consent.
lol yeah my family was 3 girls and one boy growing up so we had the opposite sampling issue
You've triggered a recent hotbutton of mine, due to a recent conflict with my kid and another. I want to share my thoughts, but I also don't want you to see this as an attack. I'm not saying the following is you or your kids, I don't know your story, but the bit here I'm quoting has been used to justify some really toxic behavior. I'd love to hear some counterexamples.
What I have experienced is that teachers are too tired and busy to call out any but the worst behavior. If they're calling stuff out its because it isn't average, run of the mill stuff... it's highly disruptive behavior. Shoving kids during basketball. Telling girls they're not allowed to play soccer. Throwing stuff in the classroom, or ignoring basic instructions when moving between classrooms. In my kid's classes, it was only 1 or two students out of 18-25 kids that had any sort of issue more than once every month or two.
No worries, I don't doubt that people justify bad behaviour as "boys will be boys" as well, I was a victim of bullying as a kid myself, and I really wish the teachers did more to help.
I mentioned the above as it's a specific problem that happens when a teacher doesn't like your kid, and based on a number of replies I got to other points, it is probably not gender specific either (in either direction, there aren't many male teachers in early childhood these days).
I don't think it's worth going into much detail, but in my case the issues with my kid suddenly disappeared when he got a new teacher. He's just not the sort of person who's intentionally disruptive.
Terms get abused a lot online, and women haven't had it easy, and still don't. But simultaneously I've seen some teachers who seem to be particularly biased against their male students, and it's only that behaviour I was trying to call out. It's not all or even most teachers, but it does exist, and parents need to be aware of the possibility.
And I'm sorry your kid's having trouble with another kid, it can be a heartbreaking experience.
Thanks, yea its a struggle. It's great to hear that your kid just had a rough headbutt against a teacher. There are still a lot of teachers who probably get out and find a profession they're better suited to.
I have no answers but I like the question.
I grew up with an alcoholic father who was more or less absent. I had no real guidance on what it meant to be a “man” (whatever that means). I have struggled with masculinity, self identity, societal expectations, and so on well into adulthood. I have daughters now (grew up with sisters) but the thought of raising a boy actually scares me- like I would have no clue how to prepare them for the modern world as a man because I’m still lost and trying to figure it out myself.
I think I would have benefited from more sports. Benefited from being around positive male role models, and other boys. Exposure would have made it easier to relate. I could have used a lot more discipline as a kid. I lacked confidence. Had no healthy models for competition or assertiveness. I don’t know how much of this is boy specific though.
Thank you for the insight. I think you've touched on an important are: how to do a better job than our parent(s) did. I've been trying to think through how to balance providing confidence without going to far. Focusing on congratulating hard work and effort over phrases like "you did so well!"
As someone who has no experience raising children, I think the highest priority is to raise your sons to be good, responsible people/adults before being good men. I think the parts specific to being a good man, whatever they may be, you learn through life if you have a solid moral and ethical foundation. Also, I would say it's important to have a balance of the male and female interpretation of what your son's actions and behaviors mean. Too often young boys are labelled as cold and socially unaware by the maternal figures in their life, when they're fairly normal for their age and gender.
Honestly, raising men is no different that raising women. The end goal should be a 'good' (oof, moralism) citizen regardless of gender.
That said, it's important to not mince words once they're old enough to comprehend. Let them know what advantages they may have, be they physical or cultural, and instruct them on how to navigate the waters of the area they're swimming in. You don't need to impart any specific wisdom, anything I'd share would be based in my values instead of inherently correct, but I realize this is antithetical to what you asked though...
So, one, empathy. When someone is hurt try to help them - don't break your back for everyone you meet but try to help.
Two, don't be afraid to ask for help but try to bring your own solutions when coming to someone.
Three, be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Get dirty, we can shower later. Make a mess, we can always clean it up. Never limit yourself based on squeamishness.
I have two kids, a daughter, 6.5, and a son who is going to turn 5.
While I understand where you are coming from, I think another commenter asked a relevant question, "What qualities do I want to teach?"
and honestly, my daughter and son have different interests, and I cater to them. But I expect that my daughter to like boy things, and my son to like girl things. My wife and I DO. NOT. CARE.
We focus on raising kind, empathetic human beings. Help them build critical thinking skills, and how to learn. The rest they will pick up from mom and dad, right, wrong, or indifferent. It will make my wife and I better people because we have to come to terms with our own problems and deal with them in a way we would want our kids to.
If you want something specific, one thing that helps build executive function is delayed gratification. I would try to look up some literature to understand more on it.
People get a bit hung up on "boy things" and "girl things" as if they are two sets with some overlap, and the things a [boy] child might be interested in is a subset of the boy things. The exposure to girl things is limited to that overlap of the two sets.
But that's just a mindset, and it filters out opportunities more than anything.
Sewing, lego, camp fires, cleaning, trains, cooking, bikes, sports, ...
That's a fair assessment, and my wife and I don't make the distinction, precisely for that reason. I suppose the correct wording would have been to use the word "traditionally"
Wasn't critiquing your wording, just wanted to put my thoughts around it into words.
Personally I think one of the most important things to teach any child is how to think for yourself and to not have to rely on other people for everything. Obviously they should know that it's perfectly ok to ask for help but I know far too many people who have 13+ year old kids and they do literally everything for them and treat them like babies. My coworker's teenager still sleeps in his mom's bed and can't even cook any type of food for himself. Everyone I know who was raised like that has just been a completely helpless person who can't handle anything in life and I find that pretty unfortunate.
I follow a very similar parenting style to @aphoenix, but I think that applies equally well to girls as well as boys.
While each boy is different, boys typically face unique challenges, including staying focused at learning, game addiction, and learning to interact with the opposite sex.
My wife has a good handle on most of that, and also encourages non-gender stereo types.
As a father, I try to help with empathy. e.g. how emotions are often processed differently by the opposite sex.
I also continually emphasize the need to be gentle around those not as strong.
Lastly, I simply try to model good behavior, and acknowledge any bad behavior.
Except for the constant joking around. I will never acknowledge my jokes as bad. Even though they are sometimes utterly atrocious.
Yeah, that's the secret; everything I said we also apply to our girls.
I find that fiction (or nonfiction narrative) books are where this kind of thing gets represented. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig, or The Road by Cormac McCarthy are two examples. Edit: This isn't to say these are good parenting books (though I do enjoy both books a lot, but a guide isn't their intent) but more that they express feelings about parenting from the perspective of a father and son both written by fathers.
An "easy" one (depending on your specific situation of course) is make sure your kids see that you respect and love their mother and/or any other femal peers for that matter. Boys get bombarded with so much masculine energy they need someone to balance that with the reality of actually how to respect and treat women.
What army does he play? Adeptus Custodes is one of the cheaper options paradoxically because they're so "elite" you don't need as many figures.
I'm not sure from your comments but it seems like maybe you aren't that familiar with Warhammer. Neither am I, and so I want to give you a recommendation, though no pressure if you can't find the time.
Play on Tabletop is a really cool channel with a very high production value where they play commentated matches of Warhammer (all versions, as well as other tabletop wargames from time to time) as well as have product reviews, tutorial and informational content, etc.
In particular I recommend the 40k in 40 minutes series, which from the sound of it, 40k is the version your son is playing. What's really cool about this video series to me is that as a complete outsider to the franchise it's very enjoyable anyway. While it doesn't explain literally everything, like their tutorial and beginner aimed content, it doesn't take a deep understanding to follow.
There's a lot I don't understand like certain basic fundamental rules that the players know well that from my perspective seemingly come out of nowhere because I don't know about them as a viewer, but I find I can just let those details wash over me and understand the gist of the game while enjoying the beautifully painted figures and getting into the suspense of the match. Here's one of the more popular videos in the series.
Maybe it'll bore you, but if not then maybe it'll give you a better idea of what the game is like in practice and a new appreciation for what your son is enjoying. These guys make me want to try the game, were it not for the financial barriers.
Space Marines are what I play too. They're the most represented, beginner friendly, and well-rounded option so he chose wisely. Haha, a buddy of mine waited in line at a physical store for that box. Since 10th edition just dropped, it's the perfect time to just get into the hobby.
I recommend the Auspex Tactics YT channel's buyer's guides if you're looking for deals and cost saving. Additionally if you hunt around on ebay, you can often buy model sheets for far cheaper from people who bought box sets but weren't interested in certain models or armies. Warhammer is notoriously expensive, but there are tricks you can do to spend a lot less than buying everything new in the store.
As far as art supplies are concerned, outside a couple things like their nicely beveled water cup, a handful of paint shades, or painting figure holder, I don't buy supplies from GamesWorkshop themselves as it's all far overpriced. You'll find much better, cheaper or both from other retailers or specialty shops.
Some budget ideas:
You can make a wet pallet for paints out of a tupperware container and some parchment paper. It's basically free and reusable.
Loctite gel superglue is like under $3, it's sold everywhere, and makes a good companion to your plastic glue since superglue works on damn near everything. The Games Workshop/Citadel plastic glue is pretty decent imo, but some people swear by the Tamiya extra thin cement glue.
Lots of third-party model paints, glues, varnishes are very well regarded and pretty affordable: Vallejo, Tamiya, Liquitex are good examples. They're also widely available in brick & mortar art stores or online.
While you can easily look up good brushes (See here for recommendations.), any art store will have sets of decent brushes for not too much money. The Games Workshop/Citadel brushes are way overpriced.
Decorating the base of a figure is a lot of fun and really "ties the room together" making them look extra cool. While you can buy little bits and knickknacks from craft stores, you could easily go outside and collect sand, dirt, rocks, twigs, dried leaves, and with some superglue make amazing looking bases for free. Maybe even make a hiking trip or outdoorsy activity out of it. Go to a state park with some small baggies in your backpack.
Let me know in 7 weeks, something tells me I'll have a lot of opinions starting then! ;)
OP, you didn’t ask this and I have no intent to lecture or shame you, but for any future mothers reading this topic with interest:
Step 1. Do NOT circumcise your baby
If you don’t agree or understand, please seek out more information - speak with men, consult research literature, search your heart.
A world of good would come from the end of such a well-meaning but harmful practice.
And if one day your child wants to be circumcised, they can make that choice for themself when they are older.
I agree witn you I just think it'd be good to clarify parents not just mothers. In my time on baby groups as a pregnant women many women said they left that decision to their husband. Plenty of men decided both ways per the comments. I advocated strongly for no circumcision, but I didn't leave my husband out of the decision.