I'm poly in a monogamous partnership and my heart breaks for you. I understand your struggle and whirlwind of emotions, and that it's turned up by living with her. So I'll be the odd one out -- I...
Exemplary
I'm poly in a monogamous partnership and my heart breaks for you. I understand your struggle and whirlwind of emotions, and that it's turned up by living with her.
So I'll be the odd one out -- I don't think your family situation is weird or inappropriate. It doesn't follow the expected relationship elevator or nuclear family expectations, but that's perfectly OK.
I also don't think your desire for a poly V makes it weirder, based on what you described of y'all's relationship, it doesn't sound so far off from polycules any way. Nor do I think there's anything incestuous to it, you aren't suggesting a desire they have any sort of non familial relationship between them. But perhaps that's part of your problem, not enough dates or romantic activities with your partner.
You can't tell the sister first, that's a breach of your partner's trust. Bottling it up and hoping it goes away on its own isn't gonna happen, it might work if there was a plan in place for her to move away, but letting it lie is how your feelings developed. Perhaps it can work if you start tackling it by focusing more on your romantic relationship with your partner. "Ghosting" your family is a cruelty to all three of you and only spares you having to face them, take it from someone that has taken the coward's way out before and is cursed with regret for the rest of their days. Therapy may be able to help you sit with it, find the source, and treat that... But that's assuming there is some underlying issue to suss out. People love people, there's no universal constant that's reinforcing love for one and only.
I view my partnership as a commitment of dedication, even though I have and am going to develop feelings for others. Some of these may merely be crushes. Others will be more serious. My partner feels differently, but we've come to understand each other more and I think I've made her feel secure that my being this way doesn't threaten my feelings for her or dedication to our partnership.
I think your best option is talking with your partner before you boil over from the stress if you don't think there's a deeper rooted issue in your partnership to find in therapy. Honestly, she may already suspect or recognize you have these feelings, and in that case, this really is your best move. Internally suss the details out from your fantasies beforehand and keep those to yourself. Emphasize how committed you are to her and be prepared to reassure her, it's gonna be a lot to handle and she'll have a lot to process. It sounds like you really value your family dynamic and that keeping that is more important than any romantic relationship with the sister... That's probably worth noting in your confession and may help as a guiding light if she's hung up on a particular struggle. Offer couple's counseling. Don't bring up poly. But most importantly, be honest. Dealing with this is foundational to how you two move forward together and it must be built on honesty and trust to be solid.
Here's my two cents: TL;DR, talk to a therapist - you, personally, first. If/when your partner asks why, I would be honest about the reason, but I wouldn't frame it as "I want to be with your...
Exemplary
Here's my two cents: TL;DR, talk to a therapist - you, personally, first. If/when your partner asks why, I would be honest about the reason, but I wouldn't frame it as "I want to be with your sister"; rather, I'd frame it as "I'm having confusing feelings about our circumstances and I need objective help to sort them out."
My background: I'm in my mid-40s. I've been in a monogamous relationship for 21 years, and have been married to that same partner now for 14 years. We have two kids, a dog, a house, intertwined finances and families, the whole nine yards. Prior to that, I had a handful of relationships, most lasting for no more than a few weeks, with one lasting for 2.5 years.
My reading on this situation is that it's very messy - for you, in your head. What we are missing is any context for how your partner or their sister feels - which is understandable, because you're not them, and it wouldn't be great to invite them into this thread given how things are for you right now. It's hard to know, for us here at Tildes, what exactly has been going on in the household and within and between different players. We have insight into what you think is going on between people in this situation; what we (Tildes users) don't have is actual insight into the situation. I would be hesitant to act on any of the options presented here (even my own!), if only because none of us know the reality of the situation.
What I will say is this: in my 21-year-long relationship, it's had its ebbs and flows. I've certainly had feelings for various people over time, to differing degrees. I've had thoughts, intrusive and otherwise, about "what would happen if ..." and "what could be ...". What I've never done, is acted on them. The main reason is ... all of those have been passing fancies. Hormones telling me I'm really into this person or another. In some cases, maybe I do really have some deeper connection with them, or at least the possibility of one. But what those people don't have, is the history and deeper love that I share with my wife.
In my book, romantic love is a flexible thing - in the sense that it adapts, it changes form and shape, but it's still what it is. The way my wife and I love each other now is ... "different" from how we loved each other when we were college kids. It's "different" because it's older, grown more mature, grown deeper and developed. The love's got stretch marks and aching joints and it's sleep-deprived and strung out, but it's still the same love that brought us together in the first place. It's had its ups and downs, its events that strained it and events that have strengthened it. It's got a history and a story. But it's strong.
Love, to me, is deeper than just what hormones tell us we want. It's the connection we form with a person, with their past and their future, and with their families (temperaments permitting).
I say all of that, because I fear that you may be weighing the pros and cons of your current, long-term, loving and cherished relationship ... against the feelings you've developed for your partner's sister. Feelings you, yourself, state are confusing. Feelings that you have explicitly stated you don't think are shared, or at least not in the same way.
Your options of just coming clean to your partner and/or their sister seem both self-destructive, and completely self-serving. When considering your options, you need to consider both how they will affect you, but also your partner, their sister, and all of the families involved. I would hesitate to just ... come out with all of the feelings all at once, before you've had time to really stew on what they are. Hence, talking to a counselor and getting some guidance.
I'm reminded of The Hagakure - a centuries-old book, based off of the collected communication between an aging samurai and a young retainer. There's a lot of gobbledegook in the book about a myriad of topics, but there's a great excerpt about criticism. The relevant bits, I feel, I have highlighted below.
To give a person one's opinion and correct his faults is an important thing. It is compassionate and comes first in matters of service. But the way of doing this is extremely difficult. To discover the good and bad points of a person is an easy thing, and to give an opinion concerning them is easy, too. For the most part, people think that they are being kind by saying the things that others find distasteful or difficult to say. But if it is not received well, they think that there is nothing more to be done. This is completely worthless. It is the same as bringing shame to a person by slandering him. It is nothing more than getting it off one's chest.
To give a person an opinion one must first judge well whether that person is of the disposition to receive it or not. One must become close with him and make sure that he continually trusts one's word. Approaching subjects that are dear to him, seek the best way to speak and to be well understood. Judge the occasion, and determine whether it is better by letter or at the time of leave−taking. Praise his good points and use every device to encourage him, perhaps by talking about one's own faults without touching on his, but so that they will occur to him. Have him receive this in the way that a man would drink water when his throat is dry, and it will be an opinion that will correct faults.
This is extremely difficult. If a person's fault is a habit of some years prior, by and large it won't be remedied. I have had this experience myself. To be intimate with all one's comrades, correcting each other's faults, and being of one mind to be of use to the master is the great compassion of a retainer. By bringing shame to a person, how could one expect to make him a better man?
I wouldn't bring this topic up with your partner or their sister until such time as you've sorted out what you are feeling, and I'd certainly verify within myself as to whether I'm doing it for my sake - to "get it off my chest" - or for theirs/ours. And I don't think, personally, that I'd get there without having a counselor to help me.
No I would find a way to remove myself from this situation and take this shit to the grave. lil sis needs to move out. Give yall some space to work on your monogamous relationship. you love her...
No I would find a way to remove myself from this situation and take this shit to the grave.
lil sis needs to move out. Give yall some space to work on your monogamous relationship. you love her but you dont wanna be in a relationship with your girlfriends whole family etc etc gf does not need to know your real feelings
Blunt honesty: This is one of a handful of comments in this thread I would recommend OP not follow. I know you mean well, but intentionally or otherwise you've implied that a no-conversation...
Exemplary
Blunt honesty: This is one of a handful of comments in this thread I would recommend OP not follow. I know you mean well, but intentionally or otherwise you've implied that a no-conversation move-out-now answer is a good first resort when it would be more accurately described as "burning bridges," made worse by advising that OP keep eternal secrets. Again, no ill will to you, but this just isn't good advice, and I'm flummoxed as to how it got the vote count it did.
@TossAway111, you've been given a lot of very good advice in this thread, but it's not the comment above. There's a smorgasbord of wonderful comments to pick from, as I'm sure you've seen given how closely you've clearly been reading the thread, but just to echo some of them:
jambo's comment puts forth questions to further understanding and posits a possible source for the issue. When they suggest answers, they do so in a way that respects nuance and differences between people.
R3qn64's comment does similar, but crucially, puts off any advice before the question is answered, which is seriously important with issues this complex.
DynamoSunshirt is also asking questions – you might be seeing a pattern here – and when they provide advice, they recommend options that rely on shared trust and respect.
DefinitelyNotAFae's posts throughout the thread have all been good, level-headed and understanding: [1], [2], [3]
MimicSquid talks about very similar circumstances they've dealt with in the past, which is doubtless useful for you in both understanding and in knowing you're not the first to have this problem.
Drewbahr has a long post that both gives great advice and precedes it with some important reminders about the available context that we have, and the background they're coming in with. It is an excellent post that deserves the exemplary it got, and I'd honestly recommend everyone read it.
Last but not least, Carrow's comment is the best one here in my mind, by a country mile. I trust you've already taken this one to heart, but the level of sympathy and consideration given to all parties plus the relative understanding of the problem puts this one slightly above even Drewbahr's post.
The only thing I could possibly add to this thread that hasn't already been said is this: If you've avoided therapy due to possible time constraints, please remember that even one or two sessions can help you find a solution. If you can afford that much, it's worth trying.
I’m sorry but she’s an adult, even if she were ten years younger I would have expected her at minimum to get an actual job to pull her weight in the household. That she does have other options...
I’m sorry but she’s an adult, even if she were ten years younger I would have expected her at minimum to get an actual job to pull her weight in the household. That she does have other options should be good enough. You don’t need a reason other than “I want it to just be the two of us to move into the next phase of our lives.”
In my (and my partner's) opinion her sister living with you for so long & the three of you being basically inseparable and doing everything together is very weird to begin with. That does not...
In my (and my partner's) opinion her sister living with you for so long & the three of you being basically inseparable and doing everything together is very weird to begin with. That does not sound healthy.
I'm not certain. I have a similar living situation, and it's purely upsides for us. Living with family members means more helping hands and friendly faces. It's no different from any other...
I'm not certain. I have a similar living situation, and it's purely upsides for us. Living with family members means more helping hands and friendly faces. It's no different from any other roommate.
The biggest problem here seems to be the romantic feelings.
Potentially, it can still be an unhealthy codependency. However ultimately I can't tell you if that's what is happening. I'd strongly suggest therapy for yourself so you can talk this through in...
Potentially, it can still be an unhealthy codependency.
However ultimately I can't tell you if that's what is happening.
I'd strongly suggest therapy for yourself so you can talk this through in depth with a professional and make life plans based on that, not based on internet randos' advice.
Most therapists should be... unjudgemental/ nonjudgemental. The MFT therapists are trained to unpack your feelings. Sure, they all have biases, but you should know within the first hour if they...
Most therapists should be... unjudgemental/ nonjudgemental. The MFT therapists are trained to unpack your feelings. Sure, they all have biases, but you should know within the first hour if they are good, as they will ask you questions that are incredibly hard to answer. Like what do you actually want. And how do you actually feel about that. Repeatedly. And they will point out you can't control how others react, only how you act and react. If you have insurance, see if your insurance covers it, and if those covered therapists are any good.
Realistically, addressing this openly will change things, and more than likely, someone will have to go. Who depends on how it plays out. If you want to keep the status quo, you're probably going...
Realistically, addressing this openly will change things, and more than likely, someone will have to go. Who depends on how it plays out.
If you want to keep the status quo, you're probably going to need to seek outside help to help you manage/navigate your feelings - option 5. At a minimum, they can help you sort out what you really want and reevaluate the other options.
You mention that the three of you spend a ton of time together as a group, only really mentioning things like anniversaries as activities for just you and your GF. So I am wondering if perhaps you...
You mention that the three of you spend a ton of time together as a group, only really mentioning things like anniversaries as activities for just you and your GF. So I am wondering if perhaps you need to start investing more 1:1 time with just the GF to help create the differentiation between what should be the closer relationship with her and what should be the more familial relationship with her sister, because right now your arrangement sounds almost like you are effectively dating both. This should be especially important if you are talking about taking the next steps with GF towards marriage and kids because you should have the relationship in its closest and most prioritized state prior to these two massive life events.
This is probably the best way to approach a conversation with your partner about the subject as well. It's not that you're lusting after the sister; your brain is simply confusing "person I have a...
This is probably the best way to approach a conversation with your partner about the subject as well. It's not that you're lusting after the sister; your brain is simply confusing "person I have a romantic relationship with" and "person I have a platonic relationship with who is present at 99% of the events my romantic partner is at, looks similar, has a similar upbringing, and who is also not related to me." No wonder you're confused!
This is a tricky situation, sorry that you've found yourself there. I would ask one thing, that may take you a long time to ponder over so don't rush to an answer, but if the sister moved out of...
This is a tricky situation, sorry that you've found yourself there. I would ask one thing, that may take you a long time to ponder over so don't rush to an answer, but if the sister moved out of the country and you never saw her again, would you still want to marry your girlfriend without a doubt?
(edit: another thought experiment is if your girlfriend moved away suddenly and you never saw HER again, would you be upset or relieved? Would you want to pursue the sister?)
What I'm getting at is basically that the sister may not be the real issue and you are missing some kind of fulfilment in your relationship with your girlfriend. Being in 'puppy-love' happens so often in office places ('work wife/work girlfriend') because of prolonged exposure and proximity to someone who fills some kind of missing piece to the 'at-home' relationship (or simply that they have grown apart from their SO and have mentally checked out of the relationship, and in other cases just for the thrill of it). You have to sus out whether your relationship is the issue or you actually are falling for her sister.
If it were me, it would start with the sister moving out on her own and me going to therapy. Of course, this will almost definitely come with a long, difficult discussion with your girlfriend in either case. If you are meant to be together forever, you cannot start your family thinking of another woman. If you cannot have a heart to heart conversation about this at the start (before infidelity or flirting or further thoughts happen), then maybe this relationship isn't meant to be.
This is going to seem like a very specific question - and it is - but I think it gets at the heart of where you're at on all this. It's the linchpin of what you've written and I think...
This is going to seem like a very specific question - and it is - but I think it gets at the heart of where you're at on all this. It's the linchpin of what you've written and I think answering/giving advice before understanding better would be a mistake.
(3) I tell the sister, most likely permanently destroying the relationship we have and making our interaction uncomfortable forever. I think expressing all this to her and hearing the most likely response of "No I dont like you like that at all you're a freak get away from me" maybe would undo this spell Im under though.
Tell me more about this scenario. How it goes in your head, whether you're telling your girlfriend also in this scenario (and if so, in what order), what you're hoping will happen.
Yeah... That's what I was afraid of when I saw one of the options was talking only to the sister. Look. I don't say this to be mean, but you've got the wrong mindset here. You've been secretly...
Maybe I'm misreading but I feel like you're trying to pry out of me- what does the ideal fantasy version of this look like? Which is embarrassing but I'll share. I tell both her and her sister- the reaction is maybe surprise but not rejection. Somehow in the long term we find a way to have a relationship with all three of us together in a poly V. I understand I have better lottery odds than this.
Yeah... That's what I was afraid of when I saw one of the options was talking only to the sister. Look. I don't say this to be mean, but you've got the wrong mindset here. You've been secretly lusting after your girlfriends sister for more than a year while having conversations with your girlfriend about getting married and having kids and stuff.
You've fucked up. This is a big deal. It's the kind of thing that causes emotional damage that lingers for years and could potentially destroy the relationship between these women. That doesn't mean you're a bad person, necessarily, but harboring secret hope that maybe things can all work out!!!! is probably why you've delayed fixing this, at least in part, and it's going to sabotage any future chance of fixing this as well.
You have to get this out of your head. If you're trying to maintain a relationship with either or both of these women going forward, your goal should be damage control and nothing but.
I don't think any further advice has any real chance of helping until you've fully internalized how bad this situation is and discarded any hopes - even secret hopes - of it all working out.
100% It's already a base rule of ENM that you don't ask to open up the relationship for a specific person. OP has already gone far down the rabbit hole. I've been in a situation similar to this, I...
100%
It's already a base rule of ENM that you don't ask to open up the relationship for a specific person. OP has already gone far down the rabbit hole.
I've been in a situation similar to this, I get the fantasy of it working out. It won't. It absolutely will not.
What is going to be important is you deciding what metric is the one you're measuring the damage by. Least to your girlfriend? To her sister? To you? The one that leaves the door open to the thing...
What is going to be important is you deciding what metric is the one you're measuring the damage by.
Least to your girlfriend? To her sister? To you?
The one that leaves the door open to the thing you actually want?
This is why I said therapist - you need to figure out which priority matters more to you. And you probably need help in finding the words for the conversations you will want to have
But between the two, who do you value more? Sometimes you need boundaries, and that's something your girlfriend should understand! Controversially, I think you need to speak openly and honestly...
But between the two, who do you value more? Sometimes you need boundaries, and that's something your girlfriend should understand!
Controversially, I think you need to speak openly and honestly with your girlfriend if you think she can handle your messy emotions and work through them.
I’m so glued to this thread because I’m a gossipy bitch. And I was with you until this moment lol. I understand the sister thing is a fantasy for some, but I think that sort of taboo thing always...
I’m so glued to this thread because I’m a gossipy bitch. And I was with you until this moment lol.
I understand the sister thing is a fantasy for some, but I think that sort of taboo thing always exists in a vacuum when you’re not describing a long term partner that you actually have a life with. I would be more understanding if you were having this threesome fantasy with one of your girlfriend’s friends.
I don’t have any advice, but this definitely made it a weirder situation.
I'd give OP the benefit of the doubt personally. I don't jmagine the sister thing was a fantasy/kink/fetish intention per se, but rather, a consequence of them developing feelings in this...
I'd give OP the benefit of the doubt personally. I don't jmagine the sister thing was a fantasy/kink/fetish intention per se, but rather, a consequence of them developing feelings in this particular love triangle. In the sense of, "well, I don't want to lose either of them, so this is the most ideal scenario".
I’m so glued to this thread because I’m a gossipy bitch
It's only incestuous if you assume the two women are having sex with each other. It's exactly the same as the affair just with consent. Polycules don't mean everyone is sexually or romantically...
It's only incestuous if you assume the two women are having sex with each other. It's exactly the same as the affair just with consent. Polycules don't mean everyone is sexually or romantically involved with everyone else involved.
I mean... An affair would end in pain for everyone, but a polycule would mean everyone is happy and consenting. It's basically the "happiest" ending, and I'd say it's the "better" fantasy since it...
I mean... An affair would end in pain for everyone, but a polycule would mean everyone is happy and consenting. It's basically the "happiest" ending, and I'd say it's the "better" fantasy since it at least implies caring about everyone's feelings rather than just your own satisfaction. Even fantasizing about an affair feels selfish to me, even more so in a situation with sisters since that would tear the family apart.
Also they used the term "poly V", which I just looked up. It's a polycule where there's three partners, A, B, and C, but the only romantic/sexual relationships are between A/B and A/C. B and C would have no such relationship to each other, and no outside partners. So no incest between sisters, they'd just share a single partner.
It's definitely the "happiest" ending since there are no breakups or family fights, but also the most unrealistic.
it's worth distinguishing between sororal polygyny and sister-wives, since the latter is typically just referring to two wives of the same man who aren't in a romantic/sexual relationship of each...
it's worth distinguishing between sororal polygyny and sister-wives, since the latter is typically just referring to two wives of the same man who aren't in a romantic/sexual relationship of each other (particularly among Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints sects) and has nothing to do with whether the women are sisters.
The former has absolutely occured across time in a number of cultures, just wouldn't confuse them with the common American/Mormon usage of "sister-wives". Neither are incestuous inherently.
Studies on mate choice copying and phenotypic matching show that human beings have a highly statistically significant tendency to find the siblings of people they are already attracted to...
Studies on mate choice copying and phenotypic matching show that human beings have a highly statistically significant tendency to find the siblings of people they are already attracted to physically and genetically appealing.
I don't know if this helps you, just saying that you're not exactly alone in experiencing something like that. Usually the worst of it goes away in a few years. Your situation is unusual and problematic mostly due to the constant contact, I suppose?
I hate myself for allowing myself to get sucked into this mindset and fantasy realm
I don't think free will comes into play in things like this.
I think describing it as being sucked into a fantasy realm does suggest free will and thus choices being made here. Indulging in the fantasy is absolutely perpetuating the whole situation. And...
I think describing it as being sucked into a fantasy realm does suggest free will and thus choices being made here.
Indulging in the fantasy is absolutely perpetuating the whole situation. And while I have a lot of empathy here, I think OP does need to keep owning that.
Indulging the fantasy is one thing, being clear headed about it is quite another. Plenty of people have thoughts they occasionally indulge but distinguish from reality. OP needs to clearly lay...
Indulging the fantasy is one thing, being clear headed about it is quite another. Plenty of people have thoughts they occasionally indulge but distinguish from reality. OP needs to clearly lay everything out and make some hard choices by setting firm boundaries.
Sure, my point is that regardless free will is involved and I suspect OP has been intentionally indulging in this fantasy because of how they discuss it throughout. That's a choice. It doesn't...
Sure, my point is that regardless free will is involved and I suspect OP has been intentionally indulging in this fantasy because of how they discuss it throughout. That's a choice. It doesn't mean OP is confusing it for reality just that this is indeed free will.
I think your judgment might be clouded by your feelings (crush?) for the sister. One question before my advice: If the sister has feelings for you, would you leave your partner? If yes: go to...
I think your judgment might be clouded by your feelings (crush?) for the sister. One question before my advice:
If the sister has feelings for you, would you leave your partner?
If yes: go to therapy first and work on yourself.
If no: proceed with my advice.
In my experience, you have to tell your partner. A reasonable partner will hear you out and help you work through the issue. Crushes happen. You haven't done anything wrong yet, but your partner deserves transparency. If they react poorly at first... well, it would be a shock, give them a little time to process. But if you have a strong foundation of understanding and trust in your relationship, there's no reason you can't work through a crush.
Bottling this up and keeping it a secret could work for some people, eventually your unrequited romantic feelings for the sister should fade. But I suspect keeping it a secret for this long has exacerbated the issue so far, and if you're reaching out for help, it might be worth trying a more honest approach with your micro-family. But whatever you do, talk to your partner FIRST. And if you talk to them, be sure that you aren't asking for permission (even subtly) to be with their sibling. It won't end well.
I absolutely agree with this. While some things should stay quiet secrets, hard emotional topics are something a partner should be there to support you through! It's a mess, but it's something you...
I absolutely agree with this. While some things should stay quiet secrets, hard emotional topics are something a partner should be there to support you through! It's a mess, but it's something you could navigate together if you're clear about what you truly want.
To my shame, I can speak to this situation. I developed feelings for my wife's sister, and with my wife's permission, shared those feelings. It wasn't anything I would have hoped for. Get you some...
To my shame, I can speak to this situation. I developed feelings for my wife's sister, and with my wife's permission, shared those feelings. It wasn't anything I would have hoped for. Get you some distance from the situation. Your feelings are understandable, but distance is the only cure.
I apologize if I am asking you things you find difficult to talk about, please don't respond if this is at all difficult for you... I presume you were spending a lot of time with your wife's...
I apologize if I am asking you things you find difficult to talk about, please don't respond if this is at all difficult for you...
I presume you were spending a lot of time with your wife's sister, something similar to OP.
How did you broach this with your wife?
How did she react initially?
How does she feel now... especially given I presume it made things.... extremely difficult now with your wife's family and that is a constant reminder?
My wife and I have an open relationship. She was (rightly) dubious that it would go anywhere, but wasn't inclined to veto it. I sent a letter laying out my feelings and saying that I wouldn't say...
My wife and I have an open relationship. She was (rightly) dubious that it would go anywhere, but wasn't inclined to veto it. I sent a letter laying out my feelings and saying that I wouldn't say anything further if I didn't hear back. I did not hear back, and it was clear that my feelings were not reciprocated. It didn't ruin the relationship, but it has never been the same. Practically, any attempted relationship when you share other ties with the person makes it much higher risk. Whether it's familial ties or a coworker, you can't easily disconnect if it doesn't go well. I should have known better, and I hope others will learn from my mistake.
I think it's very natural to develop feelings for someone you live with, there's nothing weak about it. It's a tricky situation for sure but there's no need to add self-hatred on top. I guess an...
I hate myself for allowing myself to get sucked into this mindset and fantasy realm. I know it's my fault, I know I failed them, I know I should have better control over myself. I'm mentally weak in that way I guess.
I think it's very natural to develop feelings for someone you live with, there's nothing weak about it. It's a tricky situation for sure but there's no need to add self-hatred on top.
I guess an good scenario would to help the sister to meet someone else and move out, and you getting over her.
I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I'll just throw it out there. There once was a girl I was great friends with and also had very strong romantic feelings for. She did not reciprocate...
I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I'll just throw it out there. There once was a girl I was great friends with and also had very strong romantic feelings for. She did not reciprocate those feelings (at least not after I took forever to act on them), yet I maintained the friendship despite some pretty deep longing.
Then one day she met a guy she liked. A lot. I resented him at first, and even half-accidentally flipped a condom package into his beer! (I meant to flip it up toward his beer, but didn't think it'd actually go in.) But then a picture of them together appeared on Facebook. She was looking at him in a way that she never looked at me. It was clear that she was into him, not me, and my feelings faded after that. We still had a great friendship and I actually became pretty good friends with her boyfriend. I never stopped being attracted to her, but I completely stopped pining for her.
Can you think of anything that might trigger this sort of closure for you in a similar way? It seems like a question that you might ponder.
My real advice, though, is to see a professional to talk through it. I know that there actually are some mental health professionals here on Tildes, but I think getting some direct advice would be more helpful. Good luck to ya.
I think these talks should include the idea of the sister moving out. You can bring it up openly, perhaps by asking if your girlfriend would want to raise kids with her sister in the house? Be...
There have been talks and expectations of a proposal next month on our anniversary and discussions of having kids on the horizon.
I think these talks should include the idea of the sister moving out. You can bring it up openly, perhaps by asking if your girlfriend would want to raise kids with her sister in the house? Be prepared to share your side, but rehearse how you are going to proceed in this conversation. Perhaps "soften" it by focusing on other truths - do you wish you had more solo time with your girlfriend? Does her sister's presence limit your intimacy (however that looks in your relationship)? Do you want to have the sister co-parent (crushes/romantic feelings aside)?
The reality is that you know how to handle this situation better than any of us do - this discussion is really just a sounding board to help you identify how you already want to move forward with this.
Some others have touched on this, but I want to ephasize it: If you've already picked out that she's shy and you might have a protective instinct over that, leaning into the helping-hand aspect of...
Some others have touched on this, but I want to ephasize it: If you've already picked out that she's shy and you might have a protective instinct over that, leaning into the helping-hand aspect of the relationship could really help in diverting whatever lovey-dovey feelings you're going through. If the only time you're hanging out is in intimate spaces, that's only going to accrue more intimacy. I would look at what avenues for getting them out to see people or help them moving out you can lean into.
Also, important to say: You're awesome for doing what you can about the situation you're in! Feelings and emotions are weird and not calculatory. That means that the only thing you can judge yourself on right now are your actions, and so far your actions have been constructive. Keep reaching out, asking advice, and communicating, etc! You have nothing to be ashamed of, so long as you take a breath and keep confronting these feelings head on and openly (including you SO). I know it's contradictory to everything you're feeling, but relax. If you and your girlfriend have been doing well together, then you should come out of this alright.
As a last note, my preference would be to talk to your girlfriend isolated about things first. Her sister is someone you know through your relationship with your girlfriend, so communicate with the source of your contact with the sister, aka your girlfriend. Especially if the sister is shy/has esteem issues, putting that conversation on someone who is trying to find themselves is not the direction to start with. I know it feels scarier, but I'd wager you'll get a much better outcome talking to your girlfriend first. Talking to the sister, especially alone, will result in the girlfriend feeling like you communicated around her. If I was your girlfriend, I would feel this way regardless your intent. Talking to your girlfriend first and foremost lets her know you're not hiding anything.
edits: just cleaning up the speed-commenting mess I did from mobile during my lunch break :P
I feel like giving any advice here is difficult, because it will be very culturally dependent, both on general cultural lines and on the particular cultural views of everyone involved. Advice that...
I feel like giving any advice here is difficult, because it will be very culturally dependent, both on general cultural lines and on the particular cultural views of everyone involved. Advice that might be good for some groups of people might be ruinous for others.
My wife and I have a close friend we have both always been friends with, since we were first together, or perhaps before (the three of us were in the same social sets at the time). I've always been rather attracted to him. I expect he also knows, without anything being said openly, and that he isn't attracted to me in the same way (he could be perhaps best described as someone who would be attracted to men, if he were attracted to people at all). The three of us have spent a lot of time together, have gone on holidays together, spent some fair amount of time isolated together during the pandemic, and so on. We all do love each other as friends.
My wife has always known about my attraction to him, because we've always been open with each other about those matters, and each of us knows about people the other finds attractive. The attraction doesn't affect the relationship between the two of us. It also doesn't really affect the relationship between the three of us. Acting on the attraction in some way, or making it an issue between us, feels like it would only harm the friendship, and none of us would want to hurt any of the others.
I do think that talking to your partner about the attraction could be beneficial, but it is so culturally dependent that it is impossible to say anything without knowing much more about you and your relationship, and you are probably better able to know yourself. I was, years ago, in a relationship where even the suspicion that I might find someone else attractive resulted in outright abuse. I know a fair number of couples who would find discussions of these matters commonplace, and others who would find them horrifying and ruinous. I would suggest that considering carefully how to discuss it, if you choose to discuss it, would be important. I m
I also do think situations like this can work stably, in some circumstances. I would suggest that you think about what you have and want, and how changes to the circumstances would change what you have. Do you actually want to destroy what you have now by acting seriously on the attraction? Or is being in a romantic relationship with your girlfriend, and a close friendship with her sister, a state that you enjoy, with the alternatives being worse? I might suggest that you consider whether you might love both of them enough to not act on the attraction or destroy what you have.
There being some understanding of the situation, whether spoken or unspoken, can I think be beneficial, in that it can make it more stable. If there is what you describe as 'a slip' (though that could perhaps be quite ambiguous as to extent), it can be understood. I may perhaps at times look at our friend more fondly than one might usually look at a friend. But my wife is not suspicious or hurt, because she both knows, and knows that I love her. Our friend is not be upset by it, because I know he knows that I would not do or hope for anything serious from it. We all enjoy the friendship we have together.
But again, I also know others for whom this would be completely impossible. And it is something where discussions of feelings and relationships take different forms for different people. My wife and I can discuss this openly and directly. My friend and I cannot, I think, without it being awkward, but it can be implied, and we can both know. I know he and my wife are somewhat more able to discuss the three of us. And it may be that in your circumstances saying nothing, and doing nothing, may be the best option. It may even be something that will change, over the years: I am not as attracted to our friend as I was years ago, while I am just as attracted to my wife, if not more.
My new distance was noticed and became a thing. I was confronted and admitted I was creating some distance. She was very upset at this. Tears were shed on both sides, I felt awful and in the ensuing heart to heart found out she cared for me at a deeper level than I ever knew. My love for her (in all forms) grew from this making me worse off than when I started.
The sister confronted you, or both of them? Does your girlfriend know?
I might suggest then that having some discussion of it with your girlfriend is probably something you should consider. I suspect she must know that something is off. But that there was this...
I might suggest then that having some discussion of it with your girlfriend is probably something you should consider. I suspect she must know that something is off. But that there was this discussion perhaps gives an opening to it too. Framing it as feelings you're concerned and confused by, not as something you want, might make sense.
Also, after writing what I wrote and about things happily working out, I should also note that we've had other outcomes. There was a different, married, friend, who was clearly attracted to my wife, an attraction which was to some extent mutual. The three of us all knew about the attraction (though in hindsight, I'm not sure he understood how open my wife and I are with each other on these topics). We did not see this as particularly distressing, and assumed it would not become a problem.
It did become a problem, and now we're largely cut off from a particular arts scene, because he can't emotionally handle being around her. And while I've been somewhat annoyed by his later behavior, I can't help but feel that we were somewhat to blame, coming from what we came to realize were very different circles, with different perspectives, and continuing to insistently assume that he would be alright with the situation despite it becoming increasingly clear that he wouldn't.
Being a poly person (in a monopoly relationship), I've found I have to second guess my instincts on such things and set boundaries based on what the other person is likely to be thinking rather...
Being a poly person (in a monopoly relationship), I've found I have to second guess my instincts on such things and set boundaries based on what the other person is likely to be thinking rather than what I would be thinking, or how I'd handle things given my relationship status. It's hard because I don't instinctively know why people are jealous, or weird about sex, or whatever.
I don't have experience with this kind of situation, but I try to live in a radically honest manner. If I had something like this eating away at me I wouldn't be able to hide it. So I wouldn't...
I don't have experience with this kind of situation, but I try to live in a radically honest manner. If I had something like this eating away at me I wouldn't be able to hide it. So I wouldn't exactly call this advice, but I would tell my partner what's going on and accept everything might just burn down because of it. I would make it clear it's just a desire and I have no plans to act on it. Some people can handle that information, others can not. Only one way to find out.
You should at least work to not feel guilty. Yes you have these desires, but it doesn't sound like you've hurt anyone. Removing shame and guilt is a safe net positive.
You should at least work to not feel guilty. Yes you have these desires, but it doesn't sound like you've hurt anyone. Removing shame and guilt is a safe net positive.
I like to live by the core design principle that whatever parts of something that can be removed, with the whole as good or better afterwards, must be removed. I don't think you need this kind of...
The fact is I have failed them, both of them, by not being able to manage and solve this on my own. I've allowed my broken mental state to be perpetuated well past its expiration date. I understand it's a personal failing that is in some ways innate or understandable but that does little to ease the guilt.
I like to live by the core design principle that whatever parts of something that can be removed, with the whole as good or better afterwards, must be removed.
I'm okay with this though. Guilt is a strong motivator to do the right thing and I'm going to cling to that for the moment.
I don't think you need this kind of motivator. To me this doesn't resolve the problem of unnecessary guilt. It just builds onto it. Both the guilt and this specific rationalization can be removed. Something is only unethical if it hurts someone. So far it seems the only person harmed is you, by yourself. So if you stop harming yourself that's a big improvement.
Objectively, and subjectively, the best thing for your wife's sister is for her to move out. For you to set her up on dates with your male friends. She is clearly developing feelings for you, but...
Objectively, and subjectively, the best thing for your wife's sister is for her to move out. For you to set her up on dates with your male friends. She is clearly developing feelings for you, but she just as clearly is never going to act on those feelings. Even if you and your partner amicably split up, she would never risk her sisters love for something she has avoided for thirty plus years. You know this.
Look, you are in an impossible situation. The fact that neither sister realizes it, should make you realize how impossible this is for you. This is how romantic feelings develop, but neither of them have even thought of it. This is how sexual fantasies grow, but neither of them even stopped to consider it a possibility. Because neither would even consider it even for a pico second. So the merest thought hasn't even begun to think about the possibility of crossing their minds.
If you don't think the sister would reciprocate, I strongly advise against confessing anything to her. Talk to your girlfriend and a therapist, set some boundaries. From the sister's perspective,...
If you don't think the sister would reciprocate, I strongly advise against confessing anything to her. Talk to your girlfriend and a therapist, set some boundaries.
From the sister's perspective, it'd be a lot if a guy you trusted platonically suddenly sprung something romantic on you. It might even feel like a betrayal to her. Based on everything you've said, the sister is blameless here, so I think you should do your best to keep your relationship with her healthy and platonic.
I'm poly in a monogamous partnership and my heart breaks for you. I understand your struggle and whirlwind of emotions, and that it's turned up by living with her.
So I'll be the odd one out -- I don't think your family situation is weird or inappropriate. It doesn't follow the expected relationship elevator or nuclear family expectations, but that's perfectly OK.
I also don't think your desire for a poly V makes it weirder, based on what you described of y'all's relationship, it doesn't sound so far off from polycules any way. Nor do I think there's anything incestuous to it, you aren't suggesting a desire they have any sort of non familial relationship between them. But perhaps that's part of your problem, not enough dates or romantic activities with your partner.
You can't tell the sister first, that's a breach of your partner's trust. Bottling it up and hoping it goes away on its own isn't gonna happen, it might work if there was a plan in place for her to move away, but letting it lie is how your feelings developed. Perhaps it can work if you start tackling it by focusing more on your romantic relationship with your partner. "Ghosting" your family is a cruelty to all three of you and only spares you having to face them, take it from someone that has taken the coward's way out before and is cursed with regret for the rest of their days. Therapy may be able to help you sit with it, find the source, and treat that... But that's assuming there is some underlying issue to suss out. People love people, there's no universal constant that's reinforcing love for one and only.
I view my partnership as a commitment of dedication, even though I have and am going to develop feelings for others. Some of these may merely be crushes. Others will be more serious. My partner feels differently, but we've come to understand each other more and I think I've made her feel secure that my being this way doesn't threaten my feelings for her or dedication to our partnership.
I think your best option is talking with your partner before you boil over from the stress if you don't think there's a deeper rooted issue in your partnership to find in therapy. Honestly, she may already suspect or recognize you have these feelings, and in that case, this really is your best move. Internally suss the details out from your fantasies beforehand and keep those to yourself. Emphasize how committed you are to her and be prepared to reassure her, it's gonna be a lot to handle and she'll have a lot to process. It sounds like you really value your family dynamic and that keeping that is more important than any romantic relationship with the sister... That's probably worth noting in your confession and may help as a guiding light if she's hung up on a particular struggle. Offer couple's counseling. Don't bring up poly. But most importantly, be honest. Dealing with this is foundational to how you two move forward together and it must be built on honesty and trust to be solid.
Here's my two cents: TL;DR, talk to a therapist - you, personally, first. If/when your partner asks why, I would be honest about the reason, but I wouldn't frame it as "I want to be with your sister"; rather, I'd frame it as "I'm having confusing feelings about our circumstances and I need objective help to sort them out."
My background: I'm in my mid-40s. I've been in a monogamous relationship for 21 years, and have been married to that same partner now for 14 years. We have two kids, a dog, a house, intertwined finances and families, the whole nine yards. Prior to that, I had a handful of relationships, most lasting for no more than a few weeks, with one lasting for 2.5 years.
My reading on this situation is that it's very messy - for you, in your head. What we are missing is any context for how your partner or their sister feels - which is understandable, because you're not them, and it wouldn't be great to invite them into this thread given how things are for you right now. It's hard to know, for us here at Tildes, what exactly has been going on in the household and within and between different players. We have insight into what you think is going on between people in this situation; what we (Tildes users) don't have is actual insight into the situation. I would be hesitant to act on any of the options presented here (even my own!), if only because none of us know the reality of the situation.
What I will say is this: in my 21-year-long relationship, it's had its ebbs and flows. I've certainly had feelings for various people over time, to differing degrees. I've had thoughts, intrusive and otherwise, about "what would happen if ..." and "what could be ...". What I've never done, is acted on them. The main reason is ... all of those have been passing fancies. Hormones telling me I'm really into this person or another. In some cases, maybe I do really have some deeper connection with them, or at least the possibility of one. But what those people don't have, is the history and deeper love that I share with my wife.
In my book, romantic love is a flexible thing - in the sense that it adapts, it changes form and shape, but it's still what it is. The way my wife and I love each other now is ... "different" from how we loved each other when we were college kids. It's "different" because it's older, grown more mature, grown deeper and developed. The love's got stretch marks and aching joints and it's sleep-deprived and strung out, but it's still the same love that brought us together in the first place. It's had its ups and downs, its events that strained it and events that have strengthened it. It's got a history and a story. But it's strong.
Love, to me, is deeper than just what hormones tell us we want. It's the connection we form with a person, with their past and their future, and with their families (temperaments permitting).
I say all of that, because I fear that you may be weighing the pros and cons of your current, long-term, loving and cherished relationship ... against the feelings you've developed for your partner's sister. Feelings you, yourself, state are confusing. Feelings that you have explicitly stated you don't think are shared, or at least not in the same way.
Your options of just coming clean to your partner and/or their sister seem both self-destructive, and completely self-serving. When considering your options, you need to consider both how they will affect you, but also your partner, their sister, and all of the families involved. I would hesitate to just ... come out with all of the feelings all at once, before you've had time to really stew on what they are. Hence, talking to a counselor and getting some guidance.
I'm reminded of The Hagakure - a centuries-old book, based off of the collected communication between an aging samurai and a young retainer. There's a lot of gobbledegook in the book about a myriad of topics, but there's a great excerpt about criticism. The relevant bits, I feel, I have highlighted below.
I wouldn't bring this topic up with your partner or their sister until such time as you've sorted out what you are feeling, and I'd certainly verify within myself as to whether I'm doing it for my sake - to "get it off my chest" - or for theirs/ours. And I don't think, personally, that I'd get there without having a counselor to help me.
No I would find a way to remove myself from this situation and take this shit to the grave.
lil sis needs to move out. Give yall some space to work on your monogamous relationship. you love her but you dont wanna be in a relationship with your girlfriends whole family etc etc gf does not need to know your real feelings
Blunt honesty: This is one of a handful of comments in this thread I would recommend OP not follow. I know you mean well, but intentionally or otherwise you've implied that a no-conversation move-out-now answer is a good first resort when it would be more accurately described as "burning bridges," made worse by advising that OP keep eternal secrets. Again, no ill will to you, but this just isn't good advice, and I'm flummoxed as to how it got the vote count it did.
@TossAway111, you've been given a lot of very good advice in this thread, but it's not the comment above. There's a smorgasbord of wonderful comments to pick from, as I'm sure you've seen given how closely you've clearly been reading the thread, but just to echo some of them:
The only thing I could possibly add to this thread that hasn't already been said is this: If you've avoided therapy due to possible time constraints, please remember that even one or two sessions can help you find a solution. If you can afford that much, it's worth trying.
I’m sorry but she’s an adult, even if she were ten years younger I would have expected her at minimum to get an actual job to pull her weight in the household. That she does have other options should be good enough. You don’t need a reason other than “I want it to just be the two of us to move into the next phase of our lives.”
In my (and my partner's) opinion her sister living with you for so long & the three of you being basically inseparable and doing everything together is very weird to begin with. That does not sound healthy.
I'm not certain. I have a similar living situation, and it's purely upsides for us. Living with family members means more helping hands and friendly faces. It's no different from any other roommate.
The biggest problem here seems to be the romantic feelings.
Potentially, it can still be an unhealthy codependency.
However ultimately I can't tell you if that's what is happening.
I'd strongly suggest therapy for yourself so you can talk this through in depth with a professional and make life plans based on that, not based on internet randos' advice.
A relationship therapist, licensed and specializing in couples/marriage and family therapy.
Most therapists should be... unjudgemental/ nonjudgemental. The MFT therapists are trained to unpack your feelings. Sure, they all have biases, but you should know within the first hour if they are good, as they will ask you questions that are incredibly hard to answer. Like what do you actually want. And how do you actually feel about that. Repeatedly. And they will point out you can't control how others react, only how you act and react. If you have insurance, see if your insurance covers it, and if those covered therapists are any good.
Realistically, addressing this openly will change things, and more than likely, someone will have to go. Who depends on how it plays out.
If you want to keep the status quo, you're probably going to need to seek outside help to help you manage/navigate your feelings - option 5. At a minimum, they can help you sort out what you really want and reevaluate the other options.
Its not about her its about you.
And she doesn’t have to move out tomorrow.
You mention that the three of you spend a ton of time together as a group, only really mentioning things like anniversaries as activities for just you and your GF. So I am wondering if perhaps you need to start investing more 1:1 time with just the GF to help create the differentiation between what should be the closer relationship with her and what should be the more familial relationship with her sister, because right now your arrangement sounds almost like you are effectively dating both. This should be especially important if you are talking about taking the next steps with GF towards marriage and kids because you should have the relationship in its closest and most prioritized state prior to these two massive life events.
This is probably the best way to approach a conversation with your partner about the subject as well. It's not that you're lusting after the sister; your brain is simply confusing "person I have a romantic relationship with" and "person I have a platonic relationship with who is present at 99% of the events my romantic partner is at, looks similar, has a similar upbringing, and who is also not related to me." No wonder you're confused!
This is a tricky situation, sorry that you've found yourself there. I would ask one thing, that may take you a long time to ponder over so don't rush to an answer, but if the sister moved out of the country and you never saw her again, would you still want to marry your girlfriend without a doubt?
(edit: another thought experiment is if your girlfriend moved away suddenly and you never saw HER again, would you be upset or relieved? Would you want to pursue the sister?)
What I'm getting at is basically that the sister may not be the real issue and you are missing some kind of fulfilment in your relationship with your girlfriend. Being in 'puppy-love' happens so often in office places ('work wife/work girlfriend') because of prolonged exposure and proximity to someone who fills some kind of missing piece to the 'at-home' relationship (or simply that they have grown apart from their SO and have mentally checked out of the relationship, and in other cases just for the thrill of it). You have to sus out whether your relationship is the issue or you actually are falling for her sister.
If it were me, it would start with the sister moving out on her own and me going to therapy. Of course, this will almost definitely come with a long, difficult discussion with your girlfriend in either case. If you are meant to be together forever, you cannot start your family thinking of another woman. If you cannot have a heart to heart conversation about this at the start (before infidelity or flirting or further thoughts happen), then maybe this relationship isn't meant to be.
This is going to seem like a very specific question - and it is - but I think it gets at the heart of where you're at on all this. It's the linchpin of what you've written and I think answering/giving advice before understanding better would be a mistake.
Tell me more about this scenario. How it goes in your head, whether you're telling your girlfriend also in this scenario (and if so, in what order), what you're hoping will happen.
Yeah... That's what I was afraid of when I saw one of the options was talking only to the sister. Look. I don't say this to be mean, but you've got the wrong mindset here. You've been secretly lusting after your girlfriends sister for more than a year while having conversations with your girlfriend about getting married and having kids and stuff.
You've fucked up. This is a big deal. It's the kind of thing that causes emotional damage that lingers for years and could potentially destroy the relationship between these women. That doesn't mean you're a bad person, necessarily, but harboring secret hope that maybe things can all work out!!!! is probably why you've delayed fixing this, at least in part, and it's going to sabotage any future chance of fixing this as well.
You have to get this out of your head. If you're trying to maintain a relationship with either or both of these women going forward, your goal should be damage control and nothing but.
I don't think any further advice has any real chance of helping until you've fully internalized how bad this situation is and discarded any hopes - even secret hopes - of it all working out.
100%
It's already a base rule of ENM that you don't ask to open up the relationship for a specific person. OP has already gone far down the rabbit hole.
I've been in a situation similar to this, I get the fantasy of it working out. It won't. It absolutely will not.
What is going to be important is you deciding what metric is the one you're measuring the damage by.
Least to your girlfriend? To her sister? To you?
The one that leaves the door open to the thing you actually want?
This is why I said therapist - you need to figure out which priority matters more to you. And you probably need help in finding the words for the conversations you will want to have
But between the two, who do you value more? Sometimes you need boundaries, and that's something your girlfriend should understand!
Controversially, I think you need to speak openly and honestly with your girlfriend if you think she can handle your messy emotions and work through them.
I’m so glued to this thread because I’m a gossipy bitch. And I was with you until this moment lol.
I understand the sister thing is a fantasy for some, but I think that sort of taboo thing always exists in a vacuum when you’re not describing a long term partner that you actually have a life with. I would be more understanding if you were having this threesome fantasy with one of your girlfriend’s friends.
I don’t have any advice, but this definitely made it a weirder situation.
I'd give OP the benefit of the doubt personally. I don't jmagine the sister thing was a fantasy/kink/fetish intention per se, but rather, a consequence of them developing feelings in this particular love triangle. In the sense of, "well, I don't want to lose either of them, so this is the most ideal scenario".
Relatable
Aren't we all
Sure. But I think a more “normal” thought would be well I’d have an affair with her sister. As opposed to a polycule, which feels somewhat incestuous.
It's only incestuous if you assume the two women are having sex with each other. It's exactly the same as the affair just with consent. Polycules don't mean everyone is sexually or romantically involved with everyone else involved.
ETA: it's also clearly an unrealistic expectation
I mean... An affair would end in pain for everyone, but a polycule would mean everyone is happy and consenting. It's basically the "happiest" ending, and I'd say it's the "better" fantasy since it at least implies caring about everyone's feelings rather than just your own satisfaction. Even fantasizing about an affair feels selfish to me, even more so in a situation with sisters since that would tear the family apart.
Also they used the term "poly V", which I just looked up. It's a polycule where there's three partners, A, B, and C, but the only romantic/sexual relationships are between A/B and A/C. B and C would have no such relationship to each other, and no outside partners. So no incest between sisters, they'd just share a single partner.
It's definitely the "happiest" ending since there are no breakups or family fights, but also the most unrealistic.
Sister wives have been a thing for an extremely long time. It's not particularly incestuous.
it's worth distinguishing between sororal polygyny and sister-wives, since the latter is typically just referring to two wives of the same man who aren't in a romantic/sexual relationship of each other (particularly among Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints sects) and has nothing to do with whether the women are sisters.
The former has absolutely occured across time in a number of cultures, just wouldn't confuse them with the common American/Mormon usage of "sister-wives". Neither are incestuous inherently.
Studies on mate choice copying and phenotypic matching show that human beings have a highly statistically significant tendency to find the siblings of people they are already attracted to physically and genetically appealing.
I don't know if this helps you, just saying that you're not exactly alone in experiencing something like that. Usually the worst of it goes away in a few years. Your situation is unusual and problematic mostly due to the constant contact, I suppose?
I don't think free will comes into play in things like this.
I think describing it as being sucked into a fantasy realm does suggest free will and thus choices being made here.
Indulging in the fantasy is absolutely perpetuating the whole situation. And while I have a lot of empathy here, I think OP does need to keep owning that.
Indulging the fantasy is one thing, being clear headed about it is quite another. Plenty of people have thoughts they occasionally indulge but distinguish from reality. OP needs to clearly lay everything out and make some hard choices by setting firm boundaries.
Sure, my point is that regardless free will is involved and I suspect OP has been intentionally indulging in this fantasy because of how they discuss it throughout. That's a choice. It doesn't mean OP is confusing it for reality just that this is indeed free will.
I think your judgment might be clouded by your feelings (crush?) for the sister. One question before my advice:
If the sister has feelings for you, would you leave your partner?
If yes: go to therapy first and work on yourself.
If no: proceed with my advice.
In my experience, you have to tell your partner. A reasonable partner will hear you out and help you work through the issue. Crushes happen. You haven't done anything wrong yet, but your partner deserves transparency. If they react poorly at first... well, it would be a shock, give them a little time to process. But if you have a strong foundation of understanding and trust in your relationship, there's no reason you can't work through a crush.
Bottling this up and keeping it a secret could work for some people, eventually your unrequited romantic feelings for the sister should fade. But I suspect keeping it a secret for this long has exacerbated the issue so far, and if you're reaching out for help, it might be worth trying a more honest approach with your micro-family. But whatever you do, talk to your partner FIRST. And if you talk to them, be sure that you aren't asking for permission (even subtly) to be with their sibling. It won't end well.
OP, please don't lie to a
thirdfourth party to try to "fix" things. That's horrible advice. It makes you an asshole to another person.I absolutely agree with this. While some things should stay quiet secrets, hard emotional topics are something a partner should be there to support you through! It's a mess, but it's something you could navigate together if you're clear about what you truly want.
To my shame, I can speak to this situation. I developed feelings for my wife's sister, and with my wife's permission, shared those feelings. It wasn't anything I would have hoped for. Get you some distance from the situation. Your feelings are understandable, but distance is the only cure.
I apologize if I am asking you things you find difficult to talk about, please don't respond if this is at all difficult for you...
I presume you were spending a lot of time with your wife's sister, something similar to OP.
How did you broach this with your wife?
How did she react initially?
How does she feel now... especially given I presume it made things.... extremely difficult now with your wife's family and that is a constant reminder?
My wife and I have an open relationship. She was (rightly) dubious that it would go anywhere, but wasn't inclined to veto it. I sent a letter laying out my feelings and saying that I wouldn't say anything further if I didn't hear back. I did not hear back, and it was clear that my feelings were not reciprocated. It didn't ruin the relationship, but it has never been the same. Practically, any attempted relationship when you share other ties with the person makes it much higher risk. Whether it's familial ties or a coworker, you can't easily disconnect if it doesn't go well. I should have known better, and I hope others will learn from my mistake.
I’m just gonna ask, is it not an option for her to move out?
I think it's very natural to develop feelings for someone you live with, there's nothing weak about it. It's a tricky situation for sure but there's no need to add self-hatred on top.
I guess an good scenario would to help the sister to meet someone else and move out, and you getting over her.
I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I'll just throw it out there. There once was a girl I was great friends with and also had very strong romantic feelings for. She did not reciprocate those feelings (at least not after I took forever to act on them), yet I maintained the friendship despite some pretty deep longing.
Then one day she met a guy she liked. A lot. I resented him at first, and even half-accidentally flipped a condom package into his beer! (I meant to flip it up toward his beer, but didn't think it'd actually go in.) But then a picture of them together appeared on Facebook. She was looking at him in a way that she never looked at me. It was clear that she was into him, not me, and my feelings faded after that. We still had a great friendship and I actually became pretty good friends with her boyfriend. I never stopped being attracted to her, but I completely stopped pining for her.
Can you think of anything that might trigger this sort of closure for you in a similar way? It seems like a question that you might ponder.
My real advice, though, is to see a professional to talk through it. I know that there actually are some mental health professionals here on Tildes, but I think getting some direct advice would be more helpful. Good luck to ya.
I think these talks should include the idea of the sister moving out. You can bring it up openly, perhaps by asking if your girlfriend would want to raise kids with her sister in the house? Be prepared to share your side, but rehearse how you are going to proceed in this conversation. Perhaps "soften" it by focusing on other truths - do you wish you had more solo time with your girlfriend? Does her sister's presence limit your intimacy (however that looks in your relationship)? Do you want to have the sister co-parent (crushes/romantic feelings aside)?
The reality is that you know how to handle this situation better than any of us do - this discussion is really just a sounding board to help you identify how you already want to move forward with this.
Some others have touched on this, but I want to ephasize it: If you've already picked out that she's shy and you might have a protective instinct over that, leaning into the helping-hand aspect of the relationship could really help in diverting whatever lovey-dovey feelings you're going through. If the only time you're hanging out is in intimate spaces, that's only going to accrue more intimacy. I would look at what avenues for getting them out to see people or help them moving out you can lean into.
Also, important to say: You're awesome for doing what you can about the situation you're in! Feelings and emotions are weird and not calculatory. That means that the only thing you can judge yourself on right now are your actions, and so far your actions have been constructive. Keep reaching out, asking advice, and communicating, etc! You have nothing to be ashamed of, so long as you take a breath and keep confronting these feelings head on and openly (including you SO). I know it's contradictory to everything you're feeling, but relax. If you and your girlfriend have been doing well together, then you should come out of this alright.
As a last note, my preference would be to talk to your girlfriend isolated about things first. Her sister is someone you know through your relationship with your girlfriend, so communicate with the source of your contact with the sister, aka your girlfriend. Especially if the sister is shy/has esteem issues, putting that conversation on someone who is trying to find themselves is not the direction to start with. I know it feels scarier, but I'd wager you'll get a much better outcome talking to your girlfriend first. Talking to the sister, especially alone, will result in the girlfriend feeling like you communicated around her. If I was your girlfriend, I would feel this way regardless your intent. Talking to your girlfriend first and foremost lets her know you're not hiding anything.
edits: just cleaning up the speed-commenting mess I did from mobile during my lunch break :P
I feel like giving any advice here is difficult, because it will be very culturally dependent, both on general cultural lines and on the particular cultural views of everyone involved. Advice that might be good for some groups of people might be ruinous for others.
My wife and I have a close friend we have both always been friends with, since we were first together, or perhaps before (the three of us were in the same social sets at the time). I've always been rather attracted to him. I expect he also knows, without anything being said openly, and that he isn't attracted to me in the same way (he could be perhaps best described as someone who would be attracted to men, if he were attracted to people at all). The three of us have spent a lot of time together, have gone on holidays together, spent some fair amount of time isolated together during the pandemic, and so on. We all do love each other as friends.
My wife has always known about my attraction to him, because we've always been open with each other about those matters, and each of us knows about people the other finds attractive. The attraction doesn't affect the relationship between the two of us. It also doesn't really affect the relationship between the three of us. Acting on the attraction in some way, or making it an issue between us, feels like it would only harm the friendship, and none of us would want to hurt any of the others.
I do think that talking to your partner about the attraction could be beneficial, but it is so culturally dependent that it is impossible to say anything without knowing much more about you and your relationship, and you are probably better able to know yourself. I was, years ago, in a relationship where even the suspicion that I might find someone else attractive resulted in outright abuse. I know a fair number of couples who would find discussions of these matters commonplace, and others who would find them horrifying and ruinous. I would suggest that considering carefully how to discuss it, if you choose to discuss it, would be important. I m
I also do think situations like this can work stably, in some circumstances. I would suggest that you think about what you have and want, and how changes to the circumstances would change what you have. Do you actually want to destroy what you have now by acting seriously on the attraction? Or is being in a romantic relationship with your girlfriend, and a close friendship with her sister, a state that you enjoy, with the alternatives being worse? I might suggest that you consider whether you might love both of them enough to not act on the attraction or destroy what you have.
There being some understanding of the situation, whether spoken or unspoken, can I think be beneficial, in that it can make it more stable. If there is what you describe as 'a slip' (though that could perhaps be quite ambiguous as to extent), it can be understood. I may perhaps at times look at our friend more fondly than one might usually look at a friend. But my wife is not suspicious or hurt, because she both knows, and knows that I love her. Our friend is not be upset by it, because I know he knows that I would not do or hope for anything serious from it. We all enjoy the friendship we have together.
But again, I also know others for whom this would be completely impossible. And it is something where discussions of feelings and relationships take different forms for different people. My wife and I can discuss this openly and directly. My friend and I cannot, I think, without it being awkward, but it can be implied, and we can both know. I know he and my wife are somewhat more able to discuss the three of us. And it may be that in your circumstances saying nothing, and doing nothing, may be the best option. It may even be something that will change, over the years: I am not as attracted to our friend as I was years ago, while I am just as attracted to my wife, if not more.
The sister confronted you, or both of them? Does your girlfriend know?
I might suggest then that having some discussion of it with your girlfriend is probably something you should consider. I suspect she must know that something is off. But that there was this discussion perhaps gives an opening to it too. Framing it as feelings you're concerned and confused by, not as something you want, might make sense.
Also, after writing what I wrote and about things happily working out, I should also note that we've had other outcomes. There was a different, married, friend, who was clearly attracted to my wife, an attraction which was to some extent mutual. The three of us all knew about the attraction (though in hindsight, I'm not sure he understood how open my wife and I are with each other on these topics). We did not see this as particularly distressing, and assumed it would not become a problem.
It did become a problem, and now we're largely cut off from a particular arts scene, because he can't emotionally handle being around her. And while I've been somewhat annoyed by his later behavior, I can't help but feel that we were somewhat to blame, coming from what we came to realize were very different circles, with different perspectives, and continuing to insistently assume that he would be alright with the situation despite it becoming increasingly clear that he wouldn't.
Being a poly person (in a monopoly relationship), I've found I have to second guess my instincts on such things and set boundaries based on what the other person is likely to be thinking rather than what I would be thinking, or how I'd handle things given my relationship status. It's hard because I don't instinctively know why people are jealous, or weird about sex, or whatever.
I don't have experience with this kind of situation, but I try to live in a radically honest manner. If I had something like this eating away at me I wouldn't be able to hide it. So I wouldn't exactly call this advice, but I would tell my partner what's going on and accept everything might just burn down because of it. I would make it clear it's just a desire and I have no plans to act on it. Some people can handle that information, others can not. Only one way to find out.
You should at least work to not feel guilty. Yes you have these desires, but it doesn't sound like you've hurt anyone. Removing shame and guilt is a safe net positive.
I like to live by the core design principle that whatever parts of something that can be removed, with the whole as good or better afterwards, must be removed.
I don't think you need this kind of motivator. To me this doesn't resolve the problem of unnecessary guilt. It just builds onto it. Both the guilt and this specific rationalization can be removed. Something is only unethical if it hurts someone. So far it seems the only person harmed is you, by yourself. So if you stop harming yourself that's a big improvement.
Objectively, and subjectively, the best thing for your wife's sister is for her to move out. For you to set her up on dates with your male friends. She is clearly developing feelings for you, but she just as clearly is never going to act on those feelings. Even if you and your partner amicably split up, she would never risk her sisters love for something she has avoided for thirty plus years. You know this.
Look, you are in an impossible situation. The fact that neither sister realizes it, should make you realize how impossible this is for you. This is how romantic feelings develop, but neither of them have even thought of it. This is how sexual fantasies grow, but neither of them even stopped to consider it a possibility. Because neither would even consider it even for a pico second. So the merest thought hasn't even begun to think about the possibility of crossing their minds.
OP specifically mentioned that they don't think the sister shares their feelings.
Neither the one nor the other can be assumed imho
If you don't think the sister would reciprocate, I strongly advise against confessing anything to her. Talk to your girlfriend and a therapist, set some boundaries.
From the sister's perspective, it'd be a lot if a guy you trusted platonically suddenly sprung something romantic on you. It might even feel like a betrayal to her. Based on everything you've said, the sister is blameless here, so I think you should do your best to keep your relationship with her healthy and platonic.