Guess who came out saying they want to buy it? None other than Bobby Kotick. That man will take the copper out of your blood if it helps him turn it into money.
Guess who came out saying they want to buy it?
None other than Bobby Kotick. That man will take the copper out of your blood if it helps him turn it into money.
Not that this is the US government's primary concern or reason for trying to ban it- but honestly I find it worse for my data (mine specifically, understand this could be different for some...
Not that this is the US government's primary concern or reason for trying to ban it- but honestly I find it worse for my data (mine specifically, understand this could be different for some Americans/immigrants) to be in the hands of our own government and corporations than those of China, and I am no staunch defender of the latter.
To clarify, I am simply making a point with this, not suggesting I encourage or condone other governments freely scooping up our data. I believe privacy is to be valued extremely highly in general, just find it rich when our government finds rare occasions to be bipartisan it's hypocritical BS like this.
You aren’t so safe from China even if you’re outside their borders, they have proven time and time again that they will exert force and harassment against critics and citizens abroad. The Chinese...
You aren’t so safe from China even if you’re outside their borders, they have proven time and time again that they will exert force and harassment against critics and citizens abroad.
The Chinese government runs overseas police stations that have been used at least once to coerce people back into China.
That's fair, and is also the reason I specifically except some Americans/immigrants in my original post. It's more a point about hypocrisy than anything else. The US government has historically...
That's fair, and is also the reason I specifically except some Americans/immigrants in my original post. It's more a point about hypocrisy than anything else. The US government has historically infiltrated, disrupted, and attacked social justice, human rights, and other leftist movements in the US and the surveillance apparatus is part of that. It has also been at the forefront of many absolutely appalling international interventions, and surveillance apparatus is also part of that.
Moreover, the Chinese government can easily get access to all of this data even without Tiktok, or owning any other social media site. They can get social media user data the same way the US...
Moreover, the Chinese government can easily get access to all of this data even without Tiktok, or owning any other social media site. They can get social media user data the same way the US government does, simply buying it from private companies. There's nothing stopping Zuckerberg from selling Facebook user data to the CCP or CCP-controlled companies.
I think the real reason behind this is more about media control. I don't think it's a coincidence that this bill is being pushed right now, during the Gaza conflict. The Zionist lobby is getting pretty worried about the generational divide in opinions on the Israel/Gaza conflict. Print and broadcast media are all towing the line. Even US social media sites have algorithms that give preferential treatment to the Israeli side. But Tiktok? That's a social media site that is highly popular among young people, and Tiktok can't be threatened by AIPAC. The Zionist lobby doesn't have a lot of sway in Beijing. I believe this to be the real reason we're seeing calls to force Tiktok to be sold to a US-company. If it's owned by a US company, than Tiktok will be subject to the same censor and pressure to tow the Zionist line that all other US media outlets face. Take a look at r/worldnews, and compare their coverage of the conflict to what's on Tiktok. The results are striking.
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure if you understand the difference between an app that's constantly collecting data on everything you say and do and buying someone's credit report. There's...
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure if you understand the difference between an app that's constantly collecting data on everything you say and do and buying someone's credit report.
There's no single big data store with every person's search history and geolocoation data ready for purchase. And even if there was, it's illegal for US data to flow to China. Data sovereignity laws are a huge deal, and they're actually enforced.
Yeah, not to be rude but the post sounded a little too oriented toward single, malicious actors and clean, directed mass control. Not to say that those things aren't forces at work, but history...
Yeah, not to be rude but the post sounded a little too oriented toward single, malicious actors and clean, directed mass control.
Not to say that those things aren't forces at work, but history offers many examples of things not being as simple as they seem.
You are spot on that this is about media control. The US is not worried about user data being exploited; they just want to be the one doing it. I diverge from you on China trying to influence US...
You are spot on that this is about media control. The US is not worried about user data being exploited; they just want to be the one doing it.
I diverge from you on China trying to influence US public opinion on Israel because they don't like Israel. China does not care about Palestinians. They want to "stir the pot" in the US to reduce US influence overseas. This conflict is just convenient for them to exploit.
This kind of social media influence campaigns only add to the fog of war and make it more difficult for people to find true information. Information warfare does not help the Palestinians or the Israeli government. It causes confusion and arguments that prevent us from reaching common ground and acting in unison to reach the desired outcome.
I don't think China particularly dislikes Israel; they're just neutral on the issue. The US media is hard-right pro-Zionist. And this media influence is paramount for helping the Palestinians. In...
I don't think China particularly dislikes Israel; they're just neutral on the issue. The US media is hard-right pro-Zionist.
And this media influence is paramount for helping the Palestinians. In prior conflicts, the Palestinian side of the story went largely unreported. The US context of using radically biased language and reporting in favor of the Israelis is not something new.
We really do need media like Toktok. It's not perfect, but social media sites really are the only way that people in the US can get access to the Palestinian side of the conflict. Every other media source is radically pro-Zionist. And I agree that ideally, we could just get an unbiased perspective from US media, but unfortunately that just isn't possible. With every major media source uncritically repeating the Israeli line, alternate media is all we have.
I agree that it would be ideal if we could rely on more conventional media. But we don't live in that perfect world. Instead, we live in the world of Hasbara, a well-funded Israeli propaganda campaign that aims to direct media worldwide in favor of the Zionist cause. The truth is, whether we want to or no, do live in an informational battle space. And conventional media has been completely conquered by the Zionist side.
I don't doubt this at all. Anything the US can't exert control / coercion / influence over content-wise is seen as a threat- another point of hypocrisy. It's very obvious from legislators'...
I don't doubt this at all. Anything the US can't exert control / coercion / influence over content-wise is seen as a threat- another point of hypocrisy. It's very obvious from legislators' commentary on the bill that this is the case (and that our ages-old "communism" boogeyman is alive and well in the minds of lawmakers). That's not to say I support state/authoritarian forms of it, because I don't, but I hate when I constantly see politicians refer to "communist China" as if communism is the problem
Is it hypocrisy when China bans US social media companies? It's frankly reasonable from a national security perspective. There's tons of evidence that China exerts direct control over what can and...
Exemplary
Is it hypocrisy when China bans US social media companies? It's frankly reasonable from a national security perspective. There's tons of evidence that China exerts direct control over what can and can't go viral on Tiktok. Topics like Hong Kong and Taiwan get censored while divisive issues in the US can be heated at-will to go viral.
I never said that US hypocrisy justifies China's actions, or in turn, makes China not also hypocritical. Just hypocrisy in that US lawmakers do not actually care about the privacy or misuse of...
I never said that US hypocrisy justifies China's actions, or in turn, makes China not also hypocritical.
Just hypocrisy in that US lawmakers do not actually care about the privacy or misuse of Americans' data, or influence via social media / propaganda- as long as the US is the one doing it. Yet they'll pretend to, like they always do.
There's always an air of American exceptionalism to our approach to these things and it just makes me want to puke. I get why they're doing what they're doing but I just roll my eyes at them thinking this is truly going to accomplish anything useful
Topics on Palestine or the word "genocide" on FB right now often get completely tanked metric-wise and while one may consider that our government might not be taking direct action (though possibly quiet coercive action) to make that happen, our de facto rulers (corporations) are happy to do that job for them anyway.
I mean Facebook has probably become more sensitive about political topics since political content is inherently more dangerous than random memes or funny cat videos. That said, you should check my...
I mean Facebook has probably become more sensitive about political topics since political content is inherently more dangerous than random memes or funny cat videos. That said, you should check my first source if you're actually concerned about certain political views being censored on American social media platforms (Tiktok is much much worse).
Eh, I think tow the line is fine. It may not be the original version, but spellings and interpretations can change. I suppose the original version meant to line your toes up along a battle line....
Eh, I think tow the line is fine. It may not be the original version, but spellings and interpretations can change. I suppose the original version meant to line your toes up along a battle line. But to "tow the line" would mean more dragging or pulling a rope or line. I'm imagining a big tug of war, or a bunch of people working together to drag a heavy weight. Or a ship towing a line as part of some fishing operation.
"Towing the party line" and all that. I consider both versions valid, despite "toe" being the original. In a modern context, soldiers don't really all line up in neat rows like they did when "toe the line" came about, so "toe the line" is a bit of an anachronism at this point. Also, "toe" is rarely used as a verb anymore, while "tow" is quite common.
I think "toe the line" is a bit of an anachronism at this point.
I think towing and toeing a line have very different implications regarding things like subservience and conformity of the tower/toer but if you are happy to choose one over the other that's up to...
I think towing and toeing a line have very different implications regarding things like subservience and conformity of the tower/toer but if you are happy to choose one over the other that's up to you. I'm not sure you're communicating quite the same thing by doing so though.
For whatever it's worth, institutional sorts definitely still line up in neat rows. I saw some firefighters doing it only this morning, and they're not even soldiers.
My question is, why Tiktok specifically? There are many apps and web services that are owned by Chinese companies, and thus the Chinese government by proxy. Is it a case of Tall Poppy Syndrome, or...
My question is, why Tiktok specifically? There are many apps and web services that are owned by Chinese companies, and thus the Chinese government by proxy. Is it a case of Tall Poppy Syndrome, or is there another reason?
The first I heard of the possibility of banning Tiktok was after a meme critical of American conservatives became popular on the platform. If that's the font of the Capitol's fear and loathing of the platform, there's an Orwellian irony to claiming the ban would be to protect Americans from a censorious CCP.
Can anyone chime in regarding specific threats to US security posed by Tiktok?
I should probably say I know very little about the platform aside from what I've seen reposted on other sites, as I've never much been interested in the format and thus have no account.
Edit: The general consensus amongst the Tildesohim seems to be that there's legitimate security concerns regarding Tiktok, which doesn't surprise me in the least.
My only reservation is that it's all theater unless there's comprehensive reappraisal of how user data is handled by foreign-owned companies specifically, and ideally, by corporations generally. The laxity in consumer protections in the US is shameful across the board. I would like to see that fixed, or hell, even mentioned in the election-year rhetoric.
That being said, why this singles out TikTok is because what @sparksbet said being an apps where the youths gather, and all of the state side companies are willing to throw TikTok under the bus if that gets the heat off of them.
Source: trust me bro. It's wild to me that a reddit comment with no source or proof or anything is an actual article. You can probably grab REST API stuff, but as far as I can tell I don't think...
Bangorlol is no script kiddie. “The last several years of my career has been based around reversing mobile applications, analyzing how they work, and building additional third-party functionality around them,” he told Bored Panda
Source: trust me bro. It's wild to me that a reddit comment with no source or proof or anything is an actual article.
You can probably grab REST API stuff, but as far as I can tell I don't think I've seen anyone else claim these things, all the sources I've ever seen about this always leads back to a rando Reddit comment basically.
Edit: To be clear, I don't actually use TikTok nor do I think it's a net positive for us as a society lol. I'm just pushing back on the idea a guy is reverse engineering the app, rather than just using some kinda network/packet sniffer.
Note: Speculation based on very little. I suspect titktok will be cited as causing one of the largest security breaches in history eventually. No one will admit it now, but at this point it's very...
Note: Speculation based on very little.
I suspect titktok will be cited as causing one of the largest security breaches in history eventually. No one will admit it now, but at this point it's very possible that every service member who carried a phone with tiktok has basically given another country all the information about US military infrastructure, locations, and forces they could have ever asked for.
The door has possibly been closed on that colossal fuckup, but my pet theory is that's still the main driver.
I am very much in agreement with you. With the recent Wired article about tracking through Grindr ads, I can't help but think that there is benefit to not having to jump through the additional...
I am very much in agreement with you. With the recent Wired article about tracking through Grindr ads, I can't help but think that there is benefit to not having to jump through the additional hoops and overhead of wider bombardment and ad targeting by just having governmental agents directly giving you via an app is very appealing to China, amongst other actors.
I wouldn't be surprised. After all, fitness trackers have revealed the locations of bases the military said simply did not exist at all, not merely were of uncertain location.
I wouldn't be surprised. After all, fitness trackers have revealed the locations of bases the military said simply did not exist at all, not merely were of uncertain location.
Is there a similar app or service to compare it to? According to a Pew Research study, 14% of US adults say they regularly get their news from TikTok, compared to 8% on Reddit. A study from...
Is there a similar app or service to compare it to? According to a Pew Research study, 43% of US adults say they regularly get their news from TikTok, compared to 38% on Reddit 14% of US adults say they regularly get their news from TikTok, compared to 8% on Reddit. A study from Rutgers found it significantly harder to find content regarding sensitive topics in China like HK protests, Tibet, Tiananmen Square compared to other social media platforms indicating that the platform is influenced to some degree by CCP's interests. The mental health impact of social media is becoming more and more apparent and it so it's natural that if American children are grow up on a drip of mentally conditioning social media, Americans want to know what's in the formula.
Have you genuinely forgotten that Facebook exists? The most used social media platform worldwide, which has already been criminally investigated and fined by the FTC for how it misused users' data...
Is there a similar app or service to compare it to?
Also, your stats are wrong. According to this Forbes article, which gets its data from a November 2023 Pew study, 43% of US adults get their news from Facebook, and only 13% get their news from Tiktok. Only 8% of US adults get their news from Reddit and only 11% from Twitter, but 26% of US adults get their news from YouTube and 16% from Instagram.
The study shows that 43% of Tiktok's users say they get their news from Tiktok, which is exactly the same as the percentage of Facebook users that get their news from Facebook. This is also what the 38% stat for Reddit reflects -- 38% of Reddit users say they get their news from Reddit. 53% of Twitter/X users get their news there. The only big difference between Tiktok and these other platforms on this metric is that the proportion of their users who say they get their news from Tiktok is rising very quickly, whereas it's gradually trending down for the other comparable social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter/X.
I one hundred percent agree Facebook should be targeted for regulation as well, but this bill is not imposing any rules on how Tiktok works. It is requiring the Chinese parent company to sell...
I one hundred percent agree Facebook should be targeted for regulation as well, but this bill is not imposing any rules on how Tiktok works. It is requiring the Chinese parent company to sell TikTok or risk a ban. Facebook is not tied strongly to China or CCP as far as I am aware.
Thank you for correcting my stats, you are right about that!
On the other hand, US media carries a very one-sided message on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Traditional media is almost entirely Zionist. Congress itself heavily censors its members and...
On the other hand, US media carries a very one-sided message on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Traditional media is almost entirely Zionist. Congress itself heavily censors its members and prohibits them from speaking in any anti-Zionist manner. US social media companies tweak their algorithms to feature pro-Zionist content, and many popular channels, such as r/worldnews, are heavily influence and controlled by Zionist messaging. But Tiktok represents a media source that is independent of the usual censorship and message control that occurs on larger sites. The Zionist lobby has little influence in Beijing.
I believe this is the real push for this legislation. The Zionist lobby sees that the younger generation isn't buying the bullshit anymore, and much of that is due to having access to media sources that don't censor on a radically pro-Zionist bent. And rather than change to face a world that will no longer accept colonialist projects, they instead want to change public opinion by banning uncensored media.
There have been reports that TikTok is tracking the locations of specific US citizens Before this bill was passed out of committee the Biden administration provided a classified briefing that was...
Before this bill was passed out of committee the Biden administration provided a classified briefing that was concerning enough that it passed 50-0.
Obviously we can’t know what was actually in that briefing but it seems like it was enough to make lawmakers think this is an urgent issue. Republicans passed this bill in opposition to Trump’s new pro-TikTok position, which given how quickly they killed the bipartisan border deal after his opposition they must feel strongly about this. But that’s all my own reading of the tea leaves given the limited public information we have.
For those like me that hadn’t heard the phrase: “In Australia and New Zealand, tall poppy syndrome refers to successful people being criticised. This occurs when their peers believe they are too...
For those like me that hadn’t heard the phrase:
“In Australia and New Zealand, tall poppy syndrome refers to successful people being criticised. This occurs when their peers believe they are too successful, or are bragging about their success.” - Wikipedia
For a second I had an issue with calling TicTok a success, but that’s just silly. It objectively is, just not by the metrics I would prefer to use.
I don't think there is any one single factor Certainly there is an element of it being popular, and mostly used by young folks. But there are serious concerns with how the company has allowed data...
I don't think there is any one single factor
Certainly there is an element of it being popular, and mostly used by young folks. But there are serious concerns with how the company has allowed data to move between US and Chinese owned systems internal to their corporate structure, and the consequence of that data going to Beijing.
In August 2021, TikTok received a complaint from a British user, who flagged that a man had been “exposing himself and playing with himself” on a livestream she hosted on the video app. She also described past abuse she had experienced.
To address the complaint, TikTok employees shared the incident on an internal messaging and collaboration tool called Lark, according to company documents obtained by The New York Times. The British woman’s personal data — including her photo, country of residence, internet protocol address, device and user IDs — were also posted on the platform, which is similar to Slack and Microsoft Teams.
Her information was just one piece of TikTok user data shared on Lark, which is used every day by thousands of employees of the app’s Chinese owner, ByteDance, including by those in China. According to the documents obtained by The Times, the driver’s licenses of American users were also accessible on the platform, as were some users’ potentially illegal content, such as child sexual abuse materials. In many cases, the information was available in Lark “groups” — essentially chat rooms of employees — with thousands of members.
I also think that the company is a bit of a sacrificial lamb for social media.
That said, someone is concerned about the telemetry picked up by the tiktok app and web service, otherwise these agencies wouldn't have so aggressively banned the service. These regulations are usually much less performative than congressional acts.
I completely agree with you. I think they've chosen to do this now both because of what happened with the last election and as a distraction from the very real privacy concerns that already exist....
My only reservation is that it's all theater unless there's comprehensive reappraisal of how user data is handled by foreign-owned companies specifically, and ideally, by corporations generally. The laxity in consumer protections in the US is shameful across the board. I would like to see that fixed, or hell, even mentioned in the election-year rhetoric.
I completely agree with you.
I think they've chosen to do this now both because of what happened with the last election and as a distraction from the very real privacy concerns that already exist. Instead of talking about that, we are now talking about banning something that's important to several groups of people who I'm guessing seem unlikely to vote by the folks driving this. Now folks in congress can say in their election campaigns that they tried to save us from the evil Chinese government!
If ByteDance doesn't sell, the app would be pulled from app stores and not hosted within the US. Something that US laws once had at least an influence over would be completely outside their sphere of influence. I guess we're supposed to pretend that kids are incapable of finding it anyway and putting it right back on their phones, a clear rebellion target.
On the bright side, maybe more young people would become tech savvy as a result.
Not only am I cynical about this, but I also acknowledge that TikTok has shown how tech savvy kids are when they want to be. At work we make PowerPoint presentations, while they're editing videos...
On the bright side, maybe more young people would become tech savvy as a result.
Not only am I cynical about this, but I also acknowledge that TikTok has shown how tech savvy kids are when they want to be. At work we make PowerPoint presentations, while they're editing videos to make sketch comedy using nothing more than an iPhone.
We would get so many politically blackpilled kids if TikTok was banned during an election year. I'm curious what long term effects would be, but I wouldn't want to live in that world.
We would get so many politically blackpilled kids if TikTok was banned during an election year. I'm curious what long term effects would be, but I wouldn't want to live in that world.
I mean it in the cynically fatalistic sense. Banning TikTok when there is division among the ranks is daring the progressive wing to stay home, which is probably why this bill is going to rot in...
I mean it in the cynically fatalistic sense. Banning TikTok when there is division among the ranks is daring the progressive wing to stay home, which is probably why this bill is going to rot in the Senate.
It makes sense to me. It's basically saying that the kids will seriously lose faith in the competency and trustworthiness of the federal government (more than they already have).
It makes sense to me. It's basically saying that the kids will seriously lose faith in the competency and trustworthiness of the federal government (more than they already have).
Exactly. This is treating the symptom. To actually address the issue would be doing something like requiring OS’s to provide users transparency and clarity and the power to decide who gets what...
Exactly. This is treating the symptom. To actually address the issue would be doing something like requiring OS’s to provide users transparency and clarity and the power to decide who gets what data.
That’ll never happen so to keep it from even being part of the conversation we’ll just hear a theater drama about TicTok and talk as though the issue is getting addressed while dataminers and adware figure out how to move the goalposts to the next thing.
There may be some legitimate national security concerns with how widespread usage of the app is, but I agree that it’s probably not a coincidence that TikTok is probably one of the largest online...
There may be some legitimate national security concerns with how widespread usage of the app is, but I agree that it’s probably not a coincidence that TikTok is probably one of the largest online gatherings of the largely non-republican youth. It would not surprise me in the least if conservative politicians dislike the idea of a platform where criticism of them and their policies and airing of their dirty laundry can run “unchecked” and spread more rapidly than countermeasures by the news media organizations aligned with them could ever hope to achieve.
It's also one of the best resources for supportive advice and education on topics of neurodivergency and diversity, factual information from actual dieticians who don't promote weight loss, and...
It's also one of the best resources for supportive advice and education on topics of neurodivergency and diversity, factual information from actual dieticians who don't promote weight loss, and yeah fun D&D skits that I've personally experienced.
There are absolutely negative sides to any social media site, and I don't post anything myself, but I really find it valuable in a way that Instagram and Snapchat have never appealed to me
yeah, I'm not gonna pretend Tiktok is harmless but the way it's algorithm works has allowed me to create a feed that's basically exclusively cute cats and relatable neurodivergent content, stuff I...
yeah, I'm not gonna pretend Tiktok is harmless but the way it's algorithm works has allowed me to create a feed that's basically exclusively cute cats and relatable neurodivergent content, stuff I don't get in the same way from other apps. But I also benefit from using the app rather sparingly and using my wife (who uses the app more than me) to skim the cream off her front page for me before I swipe through my own.
Your perspective on your wife's curation for you is the flip side of my sending my partner 35 tiktoks because everything was relevant and funny. It can be a time suck, but that isn't unique about...
Your perspective on your wife's curation for you is the flip side of my sending my partner 35 tiktoks because everything was relevant and funny.
It can be a time suck, but that isn't unique about TikTok
Yeah my wife has recently started one of those time-limiting apps for her TikTok usage. I tend to waste more of my time on Tumblr and, well, here. When I was on a business trip apart from her she...
Yeah my wife has recently started one of those time-limiting apps for her TikTok usage. I tend to waste more of my time on Tumblr and, well, here. When I was on a business trip apart from her she gave herself extra TikTok time so that she'd send me more to watch while we were apart. Reminded me of when we were first dating long-distance lol
Ah yeah I mentioned elsewhere but I don't doom scroll often. I spend some time on Tumblr, here, and Bluesky, with Facebook and reddit holding on for various reasons (I go read the Dimension 20...
Ah yeah I mentioned elsewhere but I don't doom scroll often. I spend some time on Tumblr, here, and Bluesky, with Facebook and reddit holding on for various reasons (I go read the Dimension 20 subreddit or Fantasy, but don't browse the front page)
Here and Facebook get checked daily usually, everything else is less often
More than most social media, Tiktok's algorithm can create a perfect echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear. I like Bluesky and Reddit still, so I understand the appeal of curating...
More than most social media, Tiktok's algorithm can create a perfect echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear. I like Bluesky and Reddit still, so I understand the appeal of curating your interests.
I just have concerns that it may be uniquely terrible in terms of winnowing people down to find the perfect dopamine drip that keeps them scrolling.
I don't doom scroll often, but when I do it's definitely more about my state of mind. I can get just as lost in a deck builder game while playing a podcast. Usually I watch a few here and there....
I don't doom scroll often, but when I do it's definitely more about my state of mind. I can get just as lost in a deck builder game while playing a podcast. Usually I watch a few here and there. But Facebook and all the others are also designed to keep you scrolling, and I think the focus on TikTok is about making anti-Chinese sentiment than actual consumer protection. (Who's gonna actually buy it in such a short time?)
For me it's less about an echo chamber and more about me finding educational things and booktok jokes.
Yeah, I agree that algorithmic content recommendation systems are inherently dangerous. That said, I have a hard time believing some of the unfortunate results of YouTube's algorithm are...
Yeah, I agree that algorithmic content recommendation systems are inherently dangerous.
That said, I have a hard time believing some of the unfortunate results of YouTube's algorithm are intentional. If there were some Google employees picking and choosing viral channels to boost or censor, I feel like we'd hear a lot more about it or at least have some leaked documents.
On the other hand, we have explicit textual evidence of Bytedance giving their moderators instructions to heat certain videos and remove topics like Uyghur genocide from the algorithm.
former speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking on the House floor in favor of this ban: she also mentions, in a very disjointed way, the Uyghur genocide in China as a reason for the ban. but obviously we're...
former speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking on the House floor in favor of this ban:
"and so we really have a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem"
this entire freakout seems to be that people under 30 are consuming news that is critical of the US in some way, particularly with regards to Israel's actions in Gaza.
There are a million ways to get-out-the-vote (GOTV), and when it comes to reaching new voters, one of the best methods is via the incredibly popular video app, TikTok! We've compiled a few of our favorite videos you can share, plus tips to create your own post.
so it looks like Biden is going to ban this app that's extremely popular among young people (all while insisting it's not a ban, of course).
and if Biden loses in November, we're going to have a bunch of very predictable hand-wringing about why so many young people didn't bother to vote.
I think the national security concerns are legitimate. There's plenty of evidence that what does and doesn't go viral on Tiktok has a lot to do with what China wants promoted. I have links in my...
I think the national security concerns are legitimate. There's plenty of evidence that what does and doesn't go viral on Tiktok has a lot to do with what China wants promoted. I have links in my other comment.
So Biden's big strategy to reach out to disaffected young voters is to join the platform that he plans to kill if given the opportunity? As others have stated, I don't see ByteDance selling to a...
Despite that push, the bill sailed through the House, raising pressure on the Democratic-led Senate to act. President Joe Biden, whose 2024 campaign joined TikTok last month, has said that if the bill reaches his desk, he will sign it into law. Aboard Air Force One on Wednesday, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre called the bill "important," saying the administration hopes the Senate will "take swift action."
So Biden's big strategy to reach out to disaffected young voters is to join the platform that he plans to kill if given the opportunity? As others have stated, I don't see ByteDance selling to a Western corp. I wonder what the political implications are if he were to sign the bill and ByteDance held out.
Let's hope it leads to the largest turnover of incumbents taking big Ls on election day in US history. Fire them all, from president to assistant county engineer and the appellate court judge.
I wonder what the political implications are if he were to sign the bill and ByteDance held out.
Let's hope it leads to the largest turnover of incumbents taking big Ls on election day in US history. Fire them all, from president to assistant county engineer and the appellate court judge.
Is this the same bill proposed a little bit ago that also aimed to ban tiktok but also banned vpn's? Or is this a revised version of that original bill?
Is this the same bill proposed a little bit ago that also aimed to ban tiktok but also banned vpn's? Or is this a revised version of that original bill?
Note that it would ban it if ByteDance does not sell it.
Guess who came out saying they want to buy it?
None other than Bobby Kotick. That man will take the copper out of your blood if it helps him turn it into money.
A pretty tall order given the company's high price tag and Chinese laws designed to prevent it from selling to Western buyers.
Even if it's banned, kids will just move to YouTube shorts or Instagram reels, and that's fine.
Tbh they're both bad in terms of algorithm. YouTube is slightly less bad but I don't find new creators there.
Just so long as they stay addicted to short-form vertical videos and not at risk of doing anything meaningful with their lives or reading a book.
Not that this is the US government's primary concern or reason for trying to ban it- but honestly I find it worse for my data (mine specifically, understand this could be different for some Americans/immigrants) to be in the hands of our own government and corporations than those of China, and I am no staunch defender of the latter.
To clarify, I am simply making a point with this, not suggesting I encourage or condone other governments freely scooping up our data. I believe privacy is to be valued extremely highly in general, just find it rich when our government finds rare occasions to be bipartisan it's hypocritical BS like this.
You aren’t so safe from China even if you’re outside their borders, they have proven time and time again that they will exert force and harassment against critics and citizens abroad.
The Chinese government runs overseas police stations that have been used at least once to coerce people back into China.
A pro Hong Kong Protestor was pulled into a Chinese consulate in the UK and beaten
And China is more than happy to use online data from people abroad to harass family members still in China
That's fair, and is also the reason I specifically except some Americans/immigrants in my original post. It's more a point about hypocrisy than anything else. The US government has historically infiltrated, disrupted, and attacked social justice, human rights, and other leftist movements in the US and the surveillance apparatus is part of that. It has also been at the forefront of many absolutely appalling international interventions, and surveillance apparatus is also part of that.
Moreover, the Chinese government can easily get access to all of this data even without Tiktok, or owning any other social media site. They can get social media user data the same way the US government does, simply buying it from private companies. There's nothing stopping Zuckerberg from selling Facebook user data to the CCP or CCP-controlled companies.
I think the real reason behind this is more about media control. I don't think it's a coincidence that this bill is being pushed right now, during the Gaza conflict. The Zionist lobby is getting pretty worried about the generational divide in opinions on the Israel/Gaza conflict. Print and broadcast media are all towing the line. Even US social media sites have algorithms that give preferential treatment to the Israeli side. But Tiktok? That's a social media site that is highly popular among young people, and Tiktok can't be threatened by AIPAC. The Zionist lobby doesn't have a lot of sway in Beijing. I believe this to be the real reason we're seeing calls to force Tiktok to be sold to a US-company. If it's owned by a US company, than Tiktok will be subject to the same censor and pressure to tow the Zionist line that all other US media outlets face. Take a look at r/worldnews, and compare their coverage of the conflict to what's on Tiktok. The results are striking.
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure if you understand the difference between an app that's constantly collecting data on everything you say and do and buying someone's credit report.
There's no single big data store with every person's search history and geolocoation data ready for purchase. And even if there was, it's illegal for US data to flow to China. Data sovereignity laws are a huge deal, and they're actually enforced.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/biden-crack-down-us-data-flows-china-russia-2024-02-28/
Yeah, not to be rude but the post sounded a little too oriented toward single, malicious actors and clean, directed mass control.
Not to say that those things aren't forces at work, but history offers many examples of things not being as simple as they seem.
You are spot on that this is about media control. The US is not worried about user data being exploited; they just want to be the one doing it.
I diverge from you on China trying to influence US public opinion on Israel because they don't like Israel. China does not care about Palestinians. They want to "stir the pot" in the US to reduce US influence overseas. This conflict is just convenient for them to exploit.
This kind of social media influence campaigns only add to the fog of war and make it more difficult for people to find true information. Information warfare does not help the Palestinians or the Israeli government. It causes confusion and arguments that prevent us from reaching common ground and acting in unison to reach the desired outcome.
I don't think China particularly dislikes Israel; they're just neutral on the issue. The US media is hard-right pro-Zionist.
And this media influence is paramount for helping the Palestinians. In prior conflicts, the Palestinian side of the story went largely unreported. The US context of using radically biased language and reporting in favor of the Israelis is not something new.
We really do need media like Toktok. It's not perfect, but social media sites really are the only way that people in the US can get access to the Palestinian side of the conflict. Every other media source is radically pro-Zionist. And I agree that ideally, we could just get an unbiased perspective from US media, but unfortunately that just isn't possible. With every major media source uncritically repeating the Israeli line, alternate media is all we have.
I agree that it would be ideal if we could rely on more conventional media. But we don't live in that perfect world. Instead, we live in the world of Hasbara, a well-funded Israeli propaganda campaign that aims to direct media worldwide in favor of the Zionist cause. The truth is, whether we want to or no, do live in an informational battle space. And conventional media has been completely conquered by the Zionist side.
I don't doubt this at all. Anything the US can't exert control / coercion / influence over content-wise is seen as a threat- another point of hypocrisy. It's very obvious from legislators' commentary on the bill that this is the case (and that our ages-old "communism" boogeyman is alive and well in the minds of lawmakers). That's not to say I support state/authoritarian forms of it, because I don't, but I hate when I constantly see politicians refer to "communist China" as if communism is the problem
Is it hypocrisy when China bans US social media companies? It's frankly reasonable from a national security perspective. There's tons of evidence that China exerts direct control over what can and can't go viral on Tiktok. Topics like Hong Kong and Taiwan get censored while divisive issues in the US can be heated at-will to go viral.
I never said that US hypocrisy justifies China's actions, or in turn, makes China not also hypocritical.
Just hypocrisy in that US lawmakers do not actually care about the privacy or misuse of Americans' data, or influence via social media / propaganda- as long as the US is the one doing it. Yet they'll pretend to, like they always do.
There's always an air of American exceptionalism to our approach to these things and it just makes me want to puke. I get why they're doing what they're doing but I just roll my eyes at them thinking this is truly going to accomplish anything useful
Topics on Palestine or the word "genocide" on FB right now often get completely tanked metric-wise and while one may consider that our government might not be taking direct action (though possibly quiet coercive action) to make that happen, our de facto rulers (corporations) are happy to do that job for them anyway.
I mean Facebook has probably become more sensitive about political topics since political content is inherently more dangerous than random memes or funny cat videos. That said, you should check my first source if you're actually concerned about certain political views being censored on American social media platforms (Tiktok is much much worse).
Just a heads up that one toes the line. With your feet.
Eh, I think tow the line is fine. It may not be the original version, but spellings and interpretations can change. I suppose the original version meant to line your toes up along a battle line. But to "tow the line" would mean more dragging or pulling a rope or line. I'm imagining a big tug of war, or a bunch of people working together to drag a heavy weight. Or a ship towing a line as part of some fishing operation.
"Towing the party line" and all that. I consider both versions valid, despite "toe" being the original. In a modern context, soldiers don't really all line up in neat rows like they did when "toe the line" came about, so "toe the line" is a bit of an anachronism at this point. Also, "toe" is rarely used as a verb anymore, while "tow" is quite common.
I think "toe the line" is a bit of an anachronism at this point.
I think towing and toeing a line have very different implications regarding things like subservience and conformity of the tower/toer but if you are happy to choose one over the other that's up to you. I'm not sure you're communicating quite the same thing by doing so though.
For whatever it's worth, institutional sorts definitely still line up in neat rows. I saw some firefighters doing it only this morning, and they're not even soldiers.
My question is, why Tiktok specifically? There are many apps and web services that are owned by Chinese companies, and thus the Chinese government by proxy. Is it a case of Tall Poppy Syndrome, or is there another reason?
The first I heard of the possibility of banning Tiktok was after a meme critical of American conservatives became popular on the platform. If that's the font of the Capitol's fear and loathing of the platform, there's an Orwellian irony to claiming the ban would be to protect Americans from a censorious CCP.
Can anyone chime in regarding specific threats to US security posed by Tiktok?
I should probably say I know very little about the platform aside from what I've seen reposted on other sites, as I've never much been interested in the format and thus have no account.
Edit: The general consensus amongst the Tildesohim seems to be that there's legitimate security concerns regarding Tiktok, which doesn't surprise me in the least.
My only reservation is that it's all theater unless there's comprehensive reappraisal of how user data is handled by foreign-owned companies specifically, and ideally, by corporations generally. The laxity in consumer protections in the US is shameful across the board. I would like to see that fixed, or hell, even mentioned in the election-year rhetoric.
Tiktok does take in an enormous amount of telemetry data, enough to make people who need a secure device uncomfortable.
https://www.boredpanda.com/tik-tok-reverse-engineered-data-information-collecting/
That being said, why this singles out TikTok is because what @sparksbet said being an apps where the youths gather, and all of the state side companies are willing to throw TikTok under the bus if that gets the heat off of them.
Source: trust me bro. It's wild to me that a reddit comment with no source or proof or anything is an actual article.
You can probably grab REST API stuff, but as far as I can tell I don't think I've seen anyone else claim these things, all the sources I've ever seen about this always leads back to a rando Reddit comment basically.
Edit: To be clear, I don't actually use TikTok nor do I think it's a net positive for us as a society lol. I'm just pushing back on the idea a guy is reverse engineering the app, rather than just using some kinda network/packet sniffer.
Note: Speculation based on very little.
I suspect titktok will be cited as causing one of the largest security breaches in history eventually. No one will admit it now, but at this point it's very possible that every service member who carried a phone with tiktok has basically given another country all the information about US military infrastructure, locations, and forces they could have ever asked for.
The door has possibly been closed on that colossal fuckup, but my pet theory is that's still the main driver.
I am very much in agreement with you. With the recent Wired article about tracking through Grindr ads, I can't help but think that there is benefit to not having to jump through the additional hoops and overhead of wider bombardment and ad targeting by just having governmental agents directly giving you via an app is very appealing to China, amongst other actors.
I wouldn't be surprised. After all, fitness trackers have revealed the locations of bases the military said simply did not exist at all, not merely were of uncertain location.
Is there a similar app or service to compare it to? According to a Pew Research study,
43% of US adults say they regularly get their news from TikTok, compared to 38% on Reddit14% of US adults say they regularly get their news from TikTok, compared to 8% on Reddit. A study from Rutgers found it significantly harder to find content regarding sensitive topics in China like HK protests, Tibet, Tiananmen Square compared to other social media platforms indicating that the platform is influenced to some degree by CCP's interests. The mental health impact of social media is becoming more and more apparent and it so it's natural that if American children are grow up on a drip of mentally conditioning social media, Americans want to know what's in the formula.Have you genuinely forgotten that Facebook exists? The most used social media platform worldwide, which has already been criminally investigated and fined by the FTC for how it misused users' data without their consent? Who also contributed to the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar by promoting violence against the Rohingya on Facebook to an extent that Amnesty International has launched a campaign demanding reparations for the Rohingya from them?
Also, your stats are wrong. According to this Forbes article, which gets its data from a November 2023 Pew study, 43% of US adults get their news from Facebook, and only 13% get their news from Tiktok. Only 8% of US adults get their news from Reddit and only 11% from Twitter, but 26% of US adults get their news from YouTube and 16% from Instagram.
The study shows that 43% of Tiktok's users say they get their news from Tiktok, which is exactly the same as the percentage of Facebook users that get their news from Facebook. This is also what the 38% stat for Reddit reflects -- 38% of Reddit users say they get their news from Reddit. 53% of Twitter/X users get their news there. The only big difference between Tiktok and these other platforms on this metric is that the proportion of their users who say they get their news from Tiktok is rising very quickly, whereas it's gradually trending down for the other comparable social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter/X.
I one hundred percent agree Facebook should be targeted for regulation as well, but this bill is not imposing any rules on how Tiktok works. It is requiring the Chinese parent company to sell TikTok or risk a ban. Facebook is not tied strongly to China or CCP as far as I am aware.
Thank you for correcting my stats, you are right about that!
On the other hand, US media carries a very one-sided message on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Traditional media is almost entirely Zionist. Congress itself heavily censors its members and prohibits them from speaking in any anti-Zionist manner. US social media companies tweak their algorithms to feature pro-Zionist content, and many popular channels, such as r/worldnews, are heavily influence and controlled by Zionist messaging. But Tiktok represents a media source that is independent of the usual censorship and message control that occurs on larger sites. The Zionist lobby has little influence in Beijing.
I believe this is the real push for this legislation. The Zionist lobby sees that the younger generation isn't buying the bullshit anymore, and much of that is due to having access to media sources that don't censor on a radically pro-Zionist bent. And rather than change to face a world that will no longer accept colonialist projects, they instead want to change public opinion by banning uncensored media.
Would you mind expanding on what you mean by this?
See the censuring of Rashida Tlaib.
There have been reports that TikTok is tracking the locations of specific US citizens
Before this bill was passed out of committee the Biden administration provided a classified briefing that was concerning enough that it passed 50-0.
Obviously we can’t know what was actually in that briefing but it seems like it was enough to make lawmakers think this is an urgent issue. Republicans passed this bill in opposition to Trump’s new pro-TikTok position, which given how quickly they killed the bipartisan border deal after his opposition they must feel strongly about this. But that’s all my own reading of the tea leaves given the limited public information we have.
I think it's Tall Poppy Syndrome, yeah, plus the perception of TikTok as something that "the youths" use.
For those like me that hadn’t heard the phrase:
“In Australia and New Zealand, tall poppy syndrome refers to successful people being criticised. This occurs when their peers believe they are too successful, or are bragging about their success.” - Wikipedia
For a second I had an issue with calling TicTok a success, but that’s just silly. It objectively is, just not by the metrics I would prefer to use.
I don't think there is any one single factor
Certainly there is an element of it being popular, and mostly used by young folks. But there are serious concerns with how the company has allowed data to move between US and Chinese owned systems internal to their corporate structure, and the consequence of that data going to Beijing.
Gift link: Driver’s Licenses, Addresses, Photos: Inside How TikTok Shares User Data
I also think that the company is a bit of a sacrificial lamb for social media.
That said, someone is concerned about the telemetry picked up by the tiktok app and web service, otherwise these agencies wouldn't have so aggressively banned the service. These regulations are usually much less performative than congressional acts.
I completely agree with you.
I think they've chosen to do this now both because of what happened with the last election and as a distraction from the very real privacy concerns that already exist. Instead of talking about that, we are now talking about banning something that's important to several groups of people who I'm guessing seem unlikely to vote by the folks driving this. Now folks in congress can say in their election campaigns that they tried to save us from the evil Chinese government!
If ByteDance doesn't sell, the app would be pulled from app stores and not hosted within the US. Something that US laws once had at least an influence over would be completely outside their sphere of influence. I guess we're supposed to pretend that kids are incapable of finding it anyway and putting it right back on their phones, a clear rebellion target.
On the bright side, maybe more young people would become tech savvy as a result.
Not only am I cynical about this, but I also acknowledge that TikTok has shown how tech savvy kids are when they want to be. At work we make PowerPoint presentations, while they're editing videos to make sketch comedy using nothing more than an iPhone.
We would get so many politically blackpilled kids if TikTok was banned during an election year. I'm curious what long term effects would be, but I wouldn't want to live in that world.
I'm hoping for a mass replacement of Congressmen as a start. Let's start from zero incumbents. Throw them all out to the streets.
Maybe its a usage I'm unfamiliar with, but 'blackpilled' doesn't seem like its quite the word you're looking for?
I mean it in the cynically fatalistic sense. Banning TikTok when there is division among the ranks is daring the progressive wing to stay home, which is probably why this bill is going to rot in the Senate.
I see. I’m only familiar with it in the incel version of the term
It makes sense to me. It's basically saying that the kids will seriously lose faith in the competency and trustworthiness of the federal government (more than they already have).
Exactly. This is treating the symptom. To actually address the issue would be doing something like requiring OS’s to provide users transparency and clarity and the power to decide who gets what data.
That’ll never happen so to keep it from even being part of the conversation we’ll just hear a theater drama about TicTok and talk as though the issue is getting addressed while dataminers and adware figure out how to move the goalposts to the next thing.
There may be some legitimate national security concerns with how widespread usage of the app is, but I agree that it’s probably not a coincidence that TikTok is probably one of the largest online gatherings of the largely non-republican youth. It would not surprise me in the least if conservative politicians dislike the idea of a platform where criticism of them and their policies and airing of their dirty laundry can run “unchecked” and spread more rapidly than countermeasures by the news media organizations aligned with them could ever hope to achieve.
It's also one of the best resources for supportive advice and education on topics of neurodivergency and diversity, factual information from actual dieticians who don't promote weight loss, and yeah fun D&D skits that I've personally experienced.
There are absolutely negative sides to any social media site, and I don't post anything myself, but I really find it valuable in a way that Instagram and Snapchat have never appealed to me
yeah, I'm not gonna pretend Tiktok is harmless but the way it's algorithm works has allowed me to create a feed that's basically exclusively cute cats and relatable neurodivergent content, stuff I don't get in the same way from other apps. But I also benefit from using the app rather sparingly and using my wife (who uses the app more than me) to skim the cream off her front page for me before I swipe through my own.
Your perspective on your wife's curation for you is the flip side of my sending my partner 35 tiktoks because everything was relevant and funny.
It can be a time suck, but that isn't unique about TikTok
Yeah my wife has recently started one of those time-limiting apps for her TikTok usage. I tend to waste more of my time on Tumblr and, well, here. When I was on a business trip apart from her she gave herself extra TikTok time so that she'd send me more to watch while we were apart. Reminded me of when we were first dating long-distance lol
Ah yeah I mentioned elsewhere but I don't doom scroll often. I spend some time on Tumblr, here, and Bluesky, with Facebook and reddit holding on for various reasons (I go read the Dimension 20 subreddit or Fantasy, but don't browse the front page)
Here and Facebook get checked daily usually, everything else is less often
More than most social media, Tiktok's algorithm can create a perfect echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear. I like Bluesky and Reddit still, so I understand the appeal of curating your interests.
I just have concerns that it may be uniquely terrible in terms of winnowing people down to find the perfect dopamine drip that keeps them scrolling.
I don't doom scroll often, but when I do it's definitely more about my state of mind. I can get just as lost in a deck builder game while playing a podcast. Usually I watch a few here and there. But Facebook and all the others are also designed to keep you scrolling, and I think the focus on TikTok is about making anti-Chinese sentiment than actual consumer protection. (Who's gonna actually buy it in such a short time?)
For me it's less about an echo chamber and more about me finding educational things and booktok jokes.
Why TikTok more than most?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/08/technology/youtube-radical.html
Yeah, I agree that algorithmic content recommendation systems are inherently dangerous.
That said, I have a hard time believing some of the unfortunate results of YouTube's algorithm are intentional. If there were some Google employees picking and choosing viral channels to boost or censor, I feel like we'd hear a lot more about it or at least have some leaked documents.
On the other hand, we have explicit textual evidence of Bytedance giving their moderators instructions to heat certain videos and remove topics like Uyghur genocide from the algorithm.
former speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking on the House floor in favor of this ban:
she also mentions, in a very disjointed way, the Uyghur genocide in China as a reason for the ban.
but obviously we're not going to ban Facebook, even though they played a part in the genocide in Myanmar.
here is the sponsor of the bill, Mike Gallagher (R-WI), saying the quiet part a bit too loud:
from November 2023: leaked audio of ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt
this entire freakout seems to be that people under 30 are consuming news that is critical of the US in some way, particularly with regards to Israel's actions in Gaza.
from the League of Women Voters in September 2022
so it looks like Biden is going to ban this app that's extremely popular among young people (all while insisting it's not a ban, of course).
and if Biden loses in November, we're going to have a bunch of very predictable hand-wringing about why so many young people didn't bother to vote.
I think the national security concerns are legitimate. There's plenty of evidence that what does and doesn't go viral on Tiktok has a lot to do with what China wants promoted. I have links in my other comment.
So Biden's big strategy to reach out to disaffected young voters is to join the platform that he plans to kill if given the opportunity? As others have stated, I don't see ByteDance selling to a Western corp. I wonder what the political implications are if he were to sign the bill and ByteDance held out.
Let's hope it leads to the largest turnover of incumbents taking big Ls on election day in US history. Fire them all, from president to assistant county engineer and the appellate court judge.
I think it's fair to ban Chinese apps as long as China bans our apps. There is a political and economic reason why China bans American tech.
Is this the same bill proposed a little bit ago that also aimed to ban tiktok but also banned vpn's? Or is this a revised version of that original bill?
Just so you know, politifact rates the "this bill will ban VPNs" thing that was flying around as "mostly false."
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/19/instagram-posts/would-the-restrict-act-criminalize-the-use-of-vpns/