EV discussion thread
Just though it might be nice to have a space for general EV discussion here on Tildes. The only other space I know of to talk on the subject is r/electricvehicles, which has gotten big enough to get polarized and echo-chambery… prepare to get bombarded if you say anything positive about EV models from Japanese manufacturers or suggest that a used Chevy Bolt isn’t a great fit for everybody, for example.
Anyway, what is everybody driving and how do you like it? Has it given you any trouble? Any upcoming models you’re excited about or interested in? If you don’t drive one now, is there a model you’re eying?
Right now I’m driving a 2023 Nissan Ariya Platinum+, which I chose because it’s what I could get a reasonable lease deal on without too much trouble. It’s been great for the most part but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t total overkill for my needs… something more like a modernized electric Golf would better fit me, but those don’t exist in the US, so here I am.
The upcoming model I’m most interested in is by far the Rivian R3. It’s sized about the same as a Golf, the retro styling is cool, and its got several high-utility features that make it almost seem like a reincarnation of the Toyota Matrix (fold flat seats including front passenger, back hatch window that can open to accommodate long objects, etc) without the Matrix’s weaknesses. The Pacific Northwest inspired interior of the higher end R3X model looks gorgeous too and is a welcome departure from the sterile grayscale interiors that EVs have become known for.
I'm very skeptical of new car brands for at least the first 2 or 3 revisions. If you're seriously considering a Rivian, it's worth looking up repair and maintenance experiences for existing customers. A well-known podcaster that I follow (Marco Arment, the creator of Overcast) got a Rivian in the last year. He damaged a bumper a few months in. The repair job took months to schedule, tens of thousands of dollars, and somehow managed to bork other internal systems like the charging infrastructure, driver assist, and seat adjustment (he discusses the experience in some depth during the last couple of ATP podcasts).
Not saying that Rivian is guaranteed to be a lemon, but I'm not sure I would rely on one just yet.
Some level of skepticism is warranted, for sure. Unfortunately EVs as a whole are still at a stage where teething issues are common though, no matter which manufacturer you're going with. Many of the models from the larger manufacturers have seen multiple recalls. We're probably still a few years out from rough edges in production being sanded down and things getting optimized for cheap/fast repair.
Ha, those Neutral chapters within ATP are some of my favorite. Marco's experience with his Rivian repairs has put me off the brand. ~$30K is absolute bonkers to repair that rear quarter panel. I think I'll stick with my old Honda for a few more years until there's enough of a supply chain and service footprint for these BEV repair costs to come down.
I have a 2022 Tesla Model 3. Don't hate me, I got it before Elon went full Nazi. I fell in love with Tesla and EVs in general when a family friend let me drive his 2013 Tesla Model S. Worked for Tesla in 2017/2018. Turns out, not the job for me. Still loved the product. I was finally in a place to buy my first Model 3 in 2020. Loved that car, but with the crazy prices during the pandemic I was able to trade it in for more than I bought it brand new.
I love everything about the Model 3 even with Elon's endless quest to try and make it worse. My second Model 3 is missing a radar but thankfully still has parking sensors. I have a 100km+ round trip daily. I can charge at home, so it costs me about $2-3 a day to do my commute. The car is fun to drive. I love one pedal driving. I love the minimal interior. I could go on. It's not perfect. The ride is rougher than my 2014 Focus, but apparently they fixed this in the refreshed Model 3 but I haven't driven it yet. I had an issue with electric motor but it was fixed under warranty and no other issues.
I don't need an SUV and there are not enough affordable Sedan EVs. With the Federal rebate in Canada, the base model 3 is the best bang for your buck EV there is in my opinion. Sadly, I can no longer recommend Tesla because Elon has aggressively gone out of his way to prove how terrible he is.
I have the 2022 Tesla Model Y and can echo basically everything in this post. I bought it at peak price and just before Musk went completely crazy.
I don’t have an EV yet, partly because I haven’t been super impressed with the options that I’m looking for, and partly because our household does just fine with the cars we have, and I’m not looking to replace anything early.
We try to take good care of our ~2013 Mazda 2 hatchback which means yearly full service, not thrashing it at the lights (not that it can really do much even foot to the floor) and sometimes paying a bit extra for the more premium fuels. We’re hoping to keep it until it’s just about ready to fall apart.
In Australia, the general car market is definitely still pulling in the direction of larger trucks and SUVs but there are still plenty of sedans and hatchbacks on the road, and even a healthy number of station wagons (not sure if that’s a colloquial phrase like ute is, or if it’s more international)
Having said that, the EV market definitely isn’t offering hatchbacks in the size (and price) I want. There’s a rumour that the BYD Seagull might be coming to Australia soon, so I’m keeping an eye out for that.
I’m also a little torn — the vast majority of trips are less than 10km (6 miles) return trip, and once per year we do a road trip that’s about 700km (1400km (850 miles) return). So far so good; it’s easy enough to get a short range EV and just rent a larger range EV or ICE or whatever I need for that once-per-year trip.
But there’s this awkward middle-range bit where I visit my parents basically every month, and that’s 150km (95 miles) each way. That trip is also usually just for a few hours, so I don’t think I could plug it in at their place and get a full charge, which means I want the range to be reliably 300km regardless of conditions, at freeway speeds for most of the trip in both directions, so maybe more like 400-500km advertised range?
I don’t really have a good sense for how much freeway speeds or weather conditions impact the range, so I’m probably overshooting with these estimates, but I’m doing my darnedest to not just give in to range anxiety. Also, is range something you can pay to upgrade later? I wouldn’t hate the idea of buying a car with minimum specs, and then getting a feel for what I actually need, and paying to upgrade later.
I’d love some input from people more familiar with how range is affected, so I can be more informed when I need to make that decision.
I can't speak to what is available in Australia as I'm in the US, but there have been some large improvements in efficiency and range between my two data points of ownership comparison. My 2019 Model 3 was advertised at 310 mile EPA range (499 km), but realistically it was around 220 miles (354 km) going around 75 mph (120 kph) on the highway. My new 2024 Model 3 is way more efficient, much to my surprise, because it appears practically the same. On a recent road trip, I thought for sure I would have to charge again before reaching my destination, but the display said it would take about 20% of my battery to go the final 77 miles (124 km), arriving with around 13% battery. It was true to its mark and I arrived with 13%.
Out Of Spec Reviews recently tested the 2024 Model 3 and compared it to a 2021 Model 3. The 2024 version went 370 miles (595 km) at 70 mph (112 kph) before losing power, well past the 341 mile (549 km) EPA range advertised. It's an 1:10:00 video showing their whole process, but the results are within the first 4 minutes.
This is one example, but I think EVs are there for your range needs, at the very least. Maybe not meeting on price just yet and I don't know how the used EV market compares to here in the US, where they are seeing large amounts of depreciation thanks to the lowered new cost + tax credit and the used tax credit pressure for sales under 25k.
Thanks for all this! I knew that at the higher end there would be EVs with decent range, enough to suit my needs, but yeah it’s the combination of budget and car-shape. I really like the hatchback style, and in a tiny city size, because I regularly snag parking spaces that would otherwise be too small for most sedans or SUVs.
But also, wow, I did not know about those year-on-year range gains! That looks like a pretty significant increase!
2022 Bolt EUV Premier owner. Picked it up “used” last October at a steep discount with 2500 miles on it. Still smelled like a new car and everything.
We had one issue: while getting on the freeway with a tricky merge in the on-ramp, I had to goose it a little to safely merge ahead of a car. Instead, there was a pop from the backseat area and we lost all drive power to the vehicle.
Got it towed to the Chevy dealership and fixed under warranty, and apparently it’s a semi-common issue.
Also had a tire replaced for a crack in the sidewall, but that’s obviously not EV specific.
Other than that, we are madly in love with it. It drives smoothly, and has enough bells and whistles that it feels like a Rolls Royce compared to our ‘09 Ranger.
We have one of those deals that hooks into your electrical panel and monitors power usage per circuit. It’s reporting that, in the last calendar year, the circuit that we charge from has used about $250 worth of electricity. We’ve put about 7500 miles on it in that time. We also tracked all of the fast charging stops we’ve made, which totals around $100.
I figured there’d be some significant savings on fuel, but that’s much more than I expected. That would’ve been about 5 tanks of gas where I live. Back of the napkin math says that $350 would have gotten us about 1750 miles in the Ranger, and 7500 miles would have cost us around $1700.
We drive a pre-2010 car and it just keeps on chugging, but I hope that the silver lining to it finally stopping working, whenever that happens, is the quantum leap in terms of, well, everything, pretty much, in the car.
As someone that just went from a 2004 being the newest vehicle I'd ever owned, to now having a 2018...prepare for major disappointment. "Fourteen years of innovation!" I thought. What a joke. The old car was better in almost every way.
I was talking to my partner about this last night and ended up pretty much deciding that as long as 1. Window buttons work (ours don't), 2. Cruise control works (ditto), 3. Bluetooth works (we bodge it with one of those BT>aux cables), we'll be happy, we have very low standards, haha.
2017 Hyundai Ioniq. It's got about 50k on the clock and is down to around 150 miles (in summer, 125 in winter) range, which is plenty. It's lovely to drive, has been perfectly fine as our only car, and has mostly been fantastic for the 2.5 years we've had it. Except it did have a horrendously expensive breakdown earlier this year. The inverter failed (well, it shut down due to overtemperature, which is better than catching fire) and the garage said it was such a rare failure they had to ship a replacement part from Korea. Hyundai UK don't keep them in stock because they don't fail. All of which cost me £7500. It was a coin toss whether it was cheaper to scrap the whole car or get the work done, but in the end we go the work done because that was slightly less effort than finding a new car.
My main issue with driving electric is actually wrangling Home Assistant into putting our solar over-generation into the car without ending up drawing from the grid. Which isn't really anything to do with the car per se, but it's been vaguely annoying me for quite a while now and I just haven't had time to sort it out.
I have a 2022 Bolt EUV and a 2018 Volt. I've had the Volt since 2020 and just had the battery management system die. The obnoxious thing is that if there is an issue with the electric side of the car, the gas side won't work because the car seems to need the electric motor to do the initial start up before it switches to gas. Luckily, it was still covered by the warranty and the repair only took two days.
With the Bolt, we just happened to get lucky and see a really good deal on a used Bolt last year and snagged it. It's the lower end badge, but was upgraded to the hilt so it has all the fancy stuff like air conditioned seats, etc. So far it's been solid as a rock.
I've had 2 EVs so far: a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD and a 2024 refreshed Model 3 LR AWD. I was hoping to keep the 2019 until it died some number of years down the road but it was totaled after a truck hit me in on the interstate earlier this year.
I'm pretty excited for the future of EVs and having a lot more options, but I felt like nothing else was really competitive price wise to the Model 3 yet. Anything with similar trim levels to the LR or LR AWD was significantly more expensive, mostly due to the tax credit situation. I also wasn't interested in anything that wasn't a sedan, and there aren't a lot of options out there beyond the i4 and the Ioniq 6 in the US yet. I'm liking the direction Rivian is going in but I wish they would make something that wasn't a truck or SUV.
I completely agree that there is currently no better EV Sedan option than the Model 3. I have a 2022 Model 3. How are you liking the refresh? Has the ride quality truly improved? Is it noticeable? Have you missed the stalks? Anything else you like or dislike between your 2019 and 2024?
Overall, the refresh is a nice improvement. The efficiency gains are the biggest winner, but the cabin is definitely quieter (almost no wind noise at all between the front windows and the side mirrors) and the car rides more comfortably. I don't think that's all up to the new tires they're going with, as I had put the Hankook Ion Evo AS on my 2019 a few months before it was totaled (and I liked those a lot too!). Drives in the car feel smoother now and more luxurious than previously.
I'm mixed on the stalks. For shifting the touch screen is fine and it doesn't bother me at all. The car puts itself in park if it's stopped and you take off the seat belt. Turn signals I'm still getting used to, but it's gotten better over time. The quality of the buttons on the steering wheel could be better. Sometimes I "miss" pressing on what I intended to.
One thing I've noticed from my 2019 to the 2024 is the AC isn't as "strong" as it was in my 2019. It got cold quickly, and I didn't have to precondition the car for that long for it to really drop the temp to normal. It feels like it takes longer on the 2024, and the fan runs more to try to keep the temp stable. This improved some after putting tint on the car, which I didn't have on the 2019. This might be with the heat pump in the 2021 and forward models, I'm not sure.
The ventilated seats are also a major plus in the southeastern summer heat. Really like those. The seats are a little different than my 2019 but I liked them both and could sit for long hours in the 2019 through road trips comfortably. Looking forward to the heated steering wheel in the winter.
Wow, that footage is scary as hell. I can’t even begin to imagine what it was like to experience it. I’m glad you’re okay.
Thanks! It was certainly scary. Other than some superficial glass cuts on my arms from my window shattering, there were no injuries and I was glad my car had enough left to maneuver out of the travel lanes. Additionally, the side camera footage allowed me to get all of the information of the truck and the company, since the truck ran after briefly stopping. My insurance was able to use the video to subrogate the trucking company, and the police were able to identify the driver and bring charges. None of those things would have happened in another car. Considering price, range, safety, and recording capability, I knew immediately I was going to get another Tesla, despite my disdain of Elon.
I don't have an EV currently but have been interested in them for a while. One of the few things keeping me from getting one is the towing capabilities of all but the largest EVs or PHEVs which are also pretty expensive compared to much more reasonably-priced offerings like the Leaf or the Bolt (whereas for ICE cars you can find tons of cheap used trucks and suvs that can tow plenty). I saw that the Model 3 and the Bolt EUV can maybe handle some towing (<2000lbs) but installing the hitch seemed like a significant task involving the temporary removal of bumpers and sensors. Anyone have any experience towing with an EV they'd like to share?
Yeah, don't do it. I love EVs but if I needed to do serious towing I would avoid it. The range loss is significant and most charging locations are not setup for charging while towing. This means you have to drop your trailer, charger and then hook back up on top of already charging more because of the range loss. The only way it would make sense in my opinion at this time is if you're towing something short range on the regular and can plug in at both destinations.
Yeah I definitely wouldn't consider it for any long-range or heavy-duty towing.
But my use case is not that extreme at all, just a small-ish boat (~2,000lbs with trailer) that I tow maybe 5 miles to the boat ramp. But so far the only EV or PHEV options with decent towing ratings I've been able to find are all like $35k and up (emphasis on the 'up'). Hence why I was looking at the towing capabilities of the Model 3 and the Bolt EUV, which can be found used for around $20-25k. Other than that there's the hybrid Maverick, which starts at around $30k, but then I'm still using gas during my commute rather than all electric.
I think EV truck variety is still lacking. So far all the options I've seen (Rivian, Tesla, Ford, Chevy) are on the high-end side of things which is overkill for my needs and budget. Hopefully in the near future we'll have something like a PHEV Maverick, a Tacoma Prime, or an electric Frontier to spice things up.
Yeah everything is going to be too expensive and haven't been around long enough to be cheap enough. I can't speak for the EUV, but I would avoid towing with the Model 3 as Tesla could choose not to cover it under warranty if they think towing damaged the car.
It doesn't immediately void your warranty, they do have to prove that the damage was caused by you towing. It definitely increases the risk of them denying a claim but it's not a silver bullet.
Fair, that's a better way of putting it. I'll edit my post.
This is a narrow perspective, but as a car nut I'm hoping EV tech sheds a lot of weight in the near future. I'd love to see what it could do for things like roadsters or hot hatches where rigidity could maybe be engineered around the skateboard and result in a light-ish car with a low center of gravity; there's at least one Miata electrification project that was a wash in weight. Supposedly Mazda is working on electrifying the next Miata out of necessity, and considering their commitment to getting the ND platform weight down I'm really curious what the hell that's going to mean if they shove a completely different motor into it... Right now the heaviness of a full EV is kinda antithetical to performance, or it's engineered into pure speed/handling at the cost of feel.
(I also want a fake manual, silly as it is.)
If Mazda made a good electric Miata (ie, didn't do it just because they "had" to) I would immediately sell my car for it. I don't care that it's impractical, I just want an electric roadster that A) exists and B) doesn't cost an arm and a leg. RWD, 50-50 weight distribution, ~6s 0-60, 150+ miles of range, same or a little more weight. I don't need it to have top specs, it's a Miata, so I want it to still feel like a Miata.
The Miata is probably going to be the first actually exciting EV in my opinion, but even then I'm going to need to be swayed. Every single EV drives the exact same (within reason, SUV to SUV, truck to truck, "sporty" to "sporty"). Weight distribution is largely the same, the motors are at the driven wheels, the battery is in the middle. There's no longer front, mid, or rear engine. There's no longer fuel tank placement or transmission orientation that affects handling.
Hell, what's even the point of Porsche if they make the, traditionally rear engined, 911 into an EV that just has the motor in the same spot as every other RWD or AWD EV?
And that's not even mentioning that electric motors are boring. Oh, you have a "sporty" EV? Let me guess, it has the same 100% torque at 0 RPM as every other EV? wow it's the same as every other EV from a Leaf to a Lambo.
There's no more high strung V12, burbling V10, V8 rumble, smooth I6, flat 6/4 bark, peaky 4 banger, screaming rotary. No more need to know how your car works to extract the best experience for the current scenario. They all drive the same. They all have no personality.
Efficiency gains are needed, EVs for the masses are great, but the actually exciting cars are going the way of horses. Some will still be used for work, but most are going to be an expensive hobby for rich people only instead of something accessible to the majority.
See, this is where I think - honestly - fake manuals and some kind of detune mode needs to exist where a car can just be... Worse. Like, if you gave me an electric car that was a two seater, and you molded it to the shape of an FD RX-7, and you could push a button to make it have the same driving characteristics as its rotary... Why not? Unfortunately I think the two things in the way are weight and updated safety rules preventing larger scale production of old designs. But as electrification kits get smaller, and since IIRC you're allowed to legally make replica body styles now, just... Make some knockoff bodies, sell them separately from the engine you want, and bam, you're a "kit car" company. Put some new use to old rollers, too.
FD prices are never gonna go down again, so in the spirit of emulation, figure out a way to bring hardware to a new generation that lets you feel 99% of that. (Then put a giant useless heater in the middle of the trans tunnel, put an incense burner in that smells like gas and oil leaking out, program it to pretend to not turn on warm because it pretended to blow the apex seals -)
Someone somewhere at some point is going to figure out how to program turbo lag into an EV's software and it's going to be hilarious.
I'm from a time when 8:1 compression was the norm for built turbo engines and ball bearing turbos were unobtainium. Yes modern turbos are better, yes my built cars are more responsive, but the turbo lag days of wait-for-it, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, holy-shit were fun as hell.
It would be pretty great if EVs could go the way of guitar pedals/amps where they could emulate anything.
I bet someone could make bank selling software kits for different engines and gearboxes. Granted, weight and its distribution cannot be changed but how fun would it be to be able to say "Oh hey now your car is acting like it has a 1.6 VTEC 4cyl and the gearbox from a 70s Mercedes, have fun!".
I dont own a Miata but Ive rented one and gone 'canyon carving' for a day so I get the appeal of small, lightweight sports car with responsive steering, great handling and braking in an affordable package. I also drive an 81 Vette which definitely isnt small or light but still has that great handling that puts a smile on your face.
Which is exactly why I bought a 2015 Fiat 500e six years ago. And absolutely love it.
Out of all the cars Ive owned (a LOT) the Fiat is right at the top of the list for smiles per mile. It accelerates like a gokart for the first 0-30 mph and loses some oomph after that, but still whips briskly enough up to its governed limit of 88 mph (very Back to the Future-ish)
But what I love even more is that its extremely planted even at top end, mostly because its small, aerodynamic, but all that weight is below the floorboards, making it rock solid. On any pavement at that speed, just a flick of the wrist gets you into another lane but without sway, without any hint of losing traction. Its the closest thing to running a legal gokart on the highway.
And the brakes are phenomenal too. Its mostly regenerative braking at speed til you get down to the last few mph, but its highly effective, giving you great confidence that should a radar gun appear on the horizon, you can safely and very quickly be back to locally approved speeds.
And the fun thing is that it looks, and is, totally innocuous. Ive rolled up to more than one stop light, and seeing a bro in his new engine revving monster motioned that I wanted to drag to the next light. Ive always been met by laughter and when the light turns green I can hear their engines roar as they PLAN to leave me in the dust. Its more than a little fun to watch them disappear behind me as the little Fiat bests them in the 0-30 drag - and of course they start to gain on me after that, but the damage is already done to their egos. I usually just wave as they eventually blow by me a block and a half later, girlfriends staring at their bros and wondering how the hell they picked such a wimp for a boyfriend LOL.
Get a 500e. All the fun you can muster for 5 to 8k or less (in the US). And if you feel the need to stroke your ego you can always give it the 'hot hatch' treatment so it looks as fun as it is: https://i.imgur.com/VeV0cS1.jpeg (an ICE version but the bodies are identical)
The old 500e's were a strong contender prior to my current lease, but what scared me away was the cost of parts. There were some reports online about some major component (the inverter maybe? I forget) failing and costing a large portion of the car's used price to fix, which didn't sound great. It's difficult to gauge how common the issue is and how worried buyers should be about it, though.
Have you seen the clutch tricks in the 5N? I know the link you had mentions the 5N but it seemed to be more a preview. They also had a dig at the 7 speed manual 911 which makes me wonder if they fully appreciate how useful a clutch is when you're chasing anything but track times.
I've been primarily driving EVs since 2017. I also like to try new things so there's more cars in this list than necessary:
The 2019 model 3 was a lease and I was able to get out of it a year early and also get $10k by selling it to a third party dealer. Tesla doesn't let you buy out the lease otherwise I'd probably still have it. I only kept the Mach E for a year because it was too big, only getting about 3 miles per kwh compared to the model 3's 4-5 and I didn't need the space. It was also the 210 mile standard range which was fine, except that most of my family lives about 300 miles away and in the winter that drive was two charging stops and the SR Mach E did not charge quickly and Electrify America was a pain. I also really missed aspects of my old Model 3.
The 2022 model 3 is really a late 2021 (November 21, lead acid battery, MCU 2, ultrasonics) that I got used in June 22 with about 5k miles on it. Traded the Mach E for what I paid before the tax credit, so I got to basically put that toward the Model 3. That was of course the peak of used car prices so a new one now is a lot less than what I paid then for a lightly used one. But it's been very solid, I had some speakers replaced in my driveway but otherwise no issues. I work from home, so most of my driving is local, but I've put about 30k miles on since then, including a trip of about 750 miles each way where I did the whole drive back in one day. Supercharging has been great, that drive I mentioned that I do often that sucked in the Mach E is just a single 15 minute stop (and the car usually needs less than that, we just grab a drink and use the restroom and that takes longer).
My wife has a 2022 Ioniq PHEV. She's able to do her whole commute on electric so the gas engine is only used for longer drives. If it had twice the battery range she could do a lot more local driving fully electric (her mom's house and back is about 50 miles but it only has a 29 mile range). She's warmed up to a full EV but she's the type to keep her cars for a while, but probably her next one will be fully electric.
Looking forward I'd really like to be able to use a small utility trailer when we need to move something that won't fit in our two sedans (we're remodeling a lot right now ourselves and it's becoming a challenge). I considered swapping to an Ioniq 5 but my car's current value compared to what we owe is not worth it right now. The 2025 Ioniq 5 also has some really nice updates so it's worth waiting for that over the 24. I'm a fan of the Rivian R2 but it seems too big for me, so what I'm really looking forward to is the R3. I'd consider the Equinox and id4 but I think I'd miss a lot about the design and support philosophy of Tesla (like I did when I had the Mach E) but Rivian seems like a way to get what I like about Tesla without Musk. I'd also love a small pickup like the Maverick but as a PHEV or EV, or something like the Buzz. I know the inefficiency would bug me compared to a sedan for either, but a van is one of the best form factors for transporting both people and stuff. A pickup's only real advantage there is for taller items and dirty stuff like gravel but I do not like full-size trucks, just give me an electric maverick for that please.
One thing to keep in mind for us is that we've got really cheap electricity and more than average cost of gas. We pay 5 cents per kwh factoring in all fees (bill total divided by usage) but gas is like $3.40 right now. We pay less than $20 a month usually for our two cars. About 400kwh, which is generally >1600 miles. At 40mpg that'd be about 40 gallons or $136 in gas at current rates. It doesn't make up the difference in costs (but if that was our goal we'd have a used Bolt instead) but we basically don't think about "fueling" costs with our cars.
I am happy to answer questions in the comments or elaborate more. EVs are basically my hobby so I really like talking about them. Been a fan of them ever since I saw a video about people building conversions when I was in High School in like 2008, so the fact that you can just buy so many of them now is so exciting to me!
Ooh, in that case I’ll ask directly! I had another comment in this thread which details my driving needs, but to summarise, I think I’m looking for a hatchback with maybe 300km (~200 miles) range at highway speeds. I know actual driving range is different to the advertised numbers, so I’d love your insight into what factors are actually relevant when considering range.
For example, I’ve heard people talking about how their actual range drops by a decent amount in cold weather, but Australia’s winter is nowhere near the kinds of temperatures you’d experience in e.g. Canada or the Midwest. There are probably a few consecutive weeks where the temperature minimums get to as low as 5°C (~40°F) and occasionally a few isolated days below zero (below 30°F) but daytime temperatures are regularly closer to 10-15°C (50-60°F)
Australia probably has some different vehicles available but I can throw out some thoughts at least. That temperature range is ideal for a heat pump for heating and it's generally true that it has a smaller impact on range than a resistive heater. When you get to below freezing that's when the heat pump stops being as efficient. Personally I've seen much better winter efficiency with my heat pump model 3 vs my older resistive one, I'm in upstate New York so we definitely get cold here.
I'd also look at highway range tests since the rated range doesn't always line up with reality. I think Out of Spec and Edmunds both have them. The market is big on SUVs and crossovers right now so I'm not sure if you're looking for something like a VW id3 (kinda like a Golf) compared to a VW id4 (small SUV) or even an id7 (bigger hatchback sedan).
My typical recommendations are the Hyundai Ioniq 5 or Kia EV6 (same car with different bodies), VW id4, Ford Mach E, Tesla Model Y, maybe the Equinox/Blazer. The Toyota BZ4X and Subaru Solterra (same car basically), and Nissan Ariya aren't ones I'd normally recommend but for the right price they can be attractive choices. There are a bunch of more luxury options with more range/comfort/etc but those are the ones I'd start with in the US at least. You might have some more Asian market options and some of these might not be available (or reasonably priced if they are).
Hatchback sedan threw me off there - I definitely didn’t have that on my bingo card for EV options to exist! I currently drive a 2013 Mazda 2 hatchback, and I really like it for being small and economical, so from the examples you showed, definitely more in the id3 direction.
I think a larger factor in what I’d be looking for is overall length (with turning circle as a bonus) so that I can park in smaller spots. And I’d like to be a customer whose purchase doesn’t encourage everything becoming a SUV/crossover if possible.
I’ve been keeping an eye on whether BYD will be making the Seagull available in Australia, and if its range lives up to what I’m looking for. Only rumours so far, I don’t think BYD has made any official announcement yet. Australia doesn’t have any local car manufacturing anymore so I don’t have any qualms with buying cars from wherever
We picked up a used Nissan Leaf e+ Tekna about 3 months ago and so far its been great.
We don't, generally, need much in the way of range and the >200 miles it will do is enough to allow us to charge it on our driveway except for maybe a couple of times a year. Sods law within 6 weeks of buying it we had to do a couple of >250 mile days following a death in the family; it was a relaxing and comfortable ride and charging speed wasn't an issue, just meant our coffee breaks were slightly longer.
The choice to change to an EV was mostly economic, we don't do many miles these days (post-covid working from home!) and paying for the upkeep on two sporty cars was getting harder and harder to justify to ourselves. In the end swapping our hot-hatch for the used Leaf cost us ~£900 plus we decided to splash out ~£1100 for a charger that integrated well with our solar system, when we could have just plugged into a 220 volt wall socket (and did for the first few weeks).
Hopefully we will be able to run the Leaf for 5+ years, everything I've read suggests they are very reliable and our needs are unlikely to change so hopefully we can be using it for the long haul.
I'm also a recent (6 months) Leaf owner. Mine was a used 2021 SL Plus. A friend who drives a Hyundai Ioniq 5 couldn't believe I would consider a CHAdeMO based car, but my perspective was, it's already affecting the resale market, and I could take advantage of that disadvantage, so to speak, as a buyer.
And then a few months later I picked up one of those new CCS adapter gadgets (from accraine.co.uk) and find it's now pretty easy to go wherever I want; the CHAdeMO issue suddenly became moot. Still, most of my travel is well within the radius of half the range of the car, which means I get by almost entirely on overnight level 2 charging at home. Also, in my part of the world, the power grid at night is supplied mostly by wind turbines. I do enjoy the idea of my primary vehicle being powered by the prairie winds.
I love this car. It's environmentally responsible, reliable, responsive, and crazy inexpensive to get around in. Really can't imagine going back to a combustion contraption.
So far I've had no issues finding a CHAdeMO public charger (I suspect new ones are still getting installed) but you can bet I'll be looking at adapters in the future.
The only fast charging adapters I've seen are >£1500 but I expect more will be becoming available.
I'm coming up on year 2 of leasing my Polestar 2, It's been a good car to me! I think it's always funny cuz no one really knows what it is so I've gotten a couple of, "what car is that?" and general "oh I've never heard of that car before!" kinda thing.
That being said, I do think I could probably make a cheaper lease for the next car I get, or something with more practicality. In particular I might go for the EV6/Ioniq 6 next year, depending on how the dealers treat me and the pricing. Otherwise, I think I'm looking at a Rivian R2 hopefully, to help replace my family's old SUV for my dad. We'll see how that goes though, I don't love the idea of getting a truck for almost no reason as a single guy without kids, but our old car is 10 years old at this point and I should probably plan to help my dad out with that stuff as he gets older.
I don’t have a true EV but I see others posting about their hybrids so I’ll do the same. I bought a 2022 Kia Sorento hybrid three years ago and I’m generally satisfied with it after 22k miles. It’s a comfortable ride and gets much better gas mileage than my old ICE car (a Honda Fit, which was already impressively efficient and much smaller than the Sorento).
I don’t love the infotainment system but I don’t think there’s a single car on the market that gets it right. CarPlay support makes up for that, and I’m satisfied with the reasonably large screen. Some of the other features like the panoramic sunroof, remote start, and middle-row bucket seats are quite nice too. I particularly like the lane-keeping assist and adaptive cruise control, which I guess are fairly common these days but it’s my first vehicle with those. It’s as close to “self-driving” as I feel comfortable with.
I wanted to get the PHEV model but wasn’t able to find one in my region in the timeframe I needed. I have general concerns about the long term viability of a car as complex as this one (but again, I think that’s a real concern with any modern vehicle) and I’m not overwhelmed by Kia’s track record when it comes to reliability and build quality… but for now things remain fine. It’s not an outrageously expensive car. I know what I signed up for. At least Kia is an established company, I think putting one’s hopes in an unproven manufacturer like Tesla or Rivian is, for the time being, still too much of a gamble.
The concern about complexity of hybrid systems is reasonable (you do literally have two independent drivetrains…), but there is a counterpoint: each system takes load off the other, and the way they are balanced, each tends to shoulder the type of load that is worst for the other. Cold starts and stop-and-go driving are disproportionately handled by the electric drivetrain, which has high torque, few moving parts to wear if lubricants are cold or not yet pressurized, and good efficiency at low speeds; highway cruising, which requires only moderate torque but very large amounts of energy overall, is mostly handled by the gas drivetrain, which has extremely dense energy storage and can operate in an efficient, low-wear powerband for it.
And, in fact, the Prius has proven to be extremely reliable. Granted, Kia is definitely not Toyota; but the case study is there, at least.
In some cases, the complexity is actually reduced due to a simpler transmission. I've been casually reading up a bit on the Honda hybrid drive train in the new Civic, and what they call an "eCVT" is actually a basic planetary gearbox because the cases where the engine will ever drive the wheels are limited to highway speeds. Otherwise it's being driven by the dual electric motors and the engine is serving as a generator. So the gearbox is simpler than a CVT or conventional automatic transmission, and the motor/battery setup is relatively simple compared to the ICE.
The replacement of Crown Vics to the Prius in NY taxis seemed like a pretty straightforward answer to hybrid reliability, those things are eating hundreds of thousands of miles in the worst conditions... It takes idling strain off too, I imagine.
I personally don't own an EV but my dad owns a 2023 Tesla Model Y and I drive it every now and then. Like a few others in this thread, we ordered the car before Elon went off the deep end. After close to 2 years of ownership, our experience has been meh and my dad is thinking of selling it. My dad bought the car (a Long Range AWD model) at the peak of Tesla prices in 2022 so he got cleaned out a bit with prices dropping by $15k+ USD within the following year.
There are a few things I like about the car. The drivetrain has been rock solid the two years we've had it, the interior is pretty roomy, and the Tesla charging setup is pretty slick. Since we have solar panels at home, charging up the Y costs us next to nothing. Maintenance has also been super minimal in the 20k miles we've driven the car.
There is quite a lot I dislike about the car but I think I'm just not the target audience for the car. I could go on for a while but in short: I find the build quality disappointing, the touch screen controls are unreliable and the few physical controls that do exist don't feel that nice either, the seats are a bit uncomfortable for me and I haven't been able to find a good driving position.
Overall, I see the appeal in owning an EV but it's certainly not for me.
For whatever it’s worth, these qualities aren’t inherent to all EVs. The build quality of my Nissan Ariya is right up there with that of high quality ICE cars and its seats are great. No problem with driving position either. While it has a touchscreen, most of the major functions have standalone controls, and other EVs lean even harder into traditional buttons (Hyundai’s do if I recall correctly).
Not trying to sway you or anything, but the market is evolving and is no longer just Tesla and Tesla-alikes.
Oh, definitely. I didn't meant to imply all EVs are like that, apologies if I sounded that way haha. I remember sitting in the original Nissan Leaf back in 2012 at an auto show and it just felt like a regular car. I'm not surprised the Ariya sounds to be pretty similar. I was happy to see that the Ariya has some physical controls, along with Hyundai, Kia, Chevrolet and a few other brands' vehicles.
Glad to see the market finally evolving beyond the Tesla and Tesla-like cars as well. There's been a lot of interesting EVs that have come out recently. The Hyundai Ioniq 5N, RIvian R3/X, VW ID.7, and so on. Hope to see more non-SUV options as well.
I'm driving a 2022 Kia EV6. I'm very happy with everything about it except for the resale value, which has tanked since then, and the fact that the car apparently has all of the hardware needed to do wireless Carplay/Android Auto (which it does in the Korean market) but Kia decided we just don't get that here.
Literally the only maintenance I've had to do in the 17,000 miles since I got it is tire rotations and a couple of free software updates from the dealer. It's apparently due for a cabin air filter now, but I can do that myself.
My wife has a Chevy Bolt that she is totally in love with too. The slow DC charging doesn't bother us as it has never been charged anywhere but our house anyway.
Dont quite understand the resale plunge on the EV6. Reviews seem to be good, owners are quite happy. Its definitely one of the better looking EVs out there. Yet they sell for 60k brand new here (Canada) and two years later they're 40k. Why?
The plunge in resale values is happening to most EVs, it seems. I can only speculate, but I think it's a combination of major things happening at once.
Like with home sales having an inverse correlation to higher mortgage rates (even though that's not true everywhere in all regions all the time), there might be a disconnect between consumers willing to buy a new car and those willing to pay new-car-insurance-prices. It seems like the increase in insurance costs are hitting people hard in general, whether they buy a new car or not.
Manufacturers don't have the parts availability that they should for the number of cars that they are selling/intending to sell. That might be hurting sales as consumers wise up to the risks of owning vehicles with low-ish production runs (so far). This week there was this article about an Equinox EV owner who is 8 weeks into their wait for what should be a simple bumper and headlamp(s) replacement. And that's at a major dealer in a major metropolitan area.
Insurance companies are also writing off cars because they would take too long to replace or the parts aren't available -- and not just on stuff like a Fisker Ocean, but more mainstream vehicles. Less mainstream but more recognizable, there have been articles about Tesla Cybertruck owners having their vehicles written off over relatively minor damages in dollar value. Some insurance companies are also allegedly dropping insurance for the Cybertruck completely. (There's an owners forum as well as a subreddit called /r/CyberStuck, for the curious as well as for enjoyers of schadenfreude.)
The market might just be saturated at these prices, people made bad decisions about how much car they can afford, or people are getting edged out of longer-term ownership of their new cars because of rising insurance prices. My insurance has gone up around 8% this year and my insurance company recognizes me as a low-risk driver. I think it's entirely because of owning an EV.
Another possible big factor is that EVs are still somewhat nascent, even if they're starting to come into maturity. The involved technologies are seeing rapid development which in turn means that the EVs using them quickly go from state of the art to outdated — the electric Chevy Blazer of 2030 is likely to bear little resemblance to its 2024 counterpart. In contrast, a 2014 ICE Blazer has few differences of note compared to a 2024 ICE Blazer because that product category is already well-developed.
It's not fun for early adopters, but the upside is that there will be a steady supply of cheap last-gen used EVs coming off lease which will make them much more accessible than they otherwise would have been. One can get some great deals on very capable vehicles as a result if they're willing to trade off having the latest and greatest and can go without some QoL improvements.
Yes and we're entering into a weird internecine period where battery technology in 2026 is promised to get substantially better. The Tesla-Panasonic 4680 battery tech partnership has started ramping up production in a big way. But I don't know if that's impacting actual EV sales yet (though it should).
Similarly, it could be that consumers are holding back on buying a western-made vehicle because they're hoping that Vietnamese and Chinese cars will be a silver bullet solution. They won't be if tariffs remain the same or increase, but before anyone says that competition is good, we are still at that point where most EV manufacturers need to ramp up production scale to bring their costs down.
One of the reasons I bought an EV based on an ICE model is because there were shared components between the two (especially when it came to interiors, suspension and chassis bits and bolts, etc.). Also it's the third or fourth model year it was available as an EV. I hoped that would keep my cost of ownership reduced, but we'll see.
For anyone who has replaced EV tires, is there any particular ones you would recommend?
I have the tires that came with my Bolt since I bought them and I'm actually pretty impressed they're still going strong, but they will have to be replaced eventually and I'm wondering if I should shell out the extra bones for the same kind, or if there is a better value out there I should consider.
Like with buying cars for any vehicle, it comes down to a variety of personal factors. People who aren't sure what's best usually stick with whatever the brand and model of tires are that come from the factory, but you don't have to. TireRack makes it easy to comparison shop, but there's also a lot of data to work through in figuring out what's right for your vehicle.
I did a quick search of an approximate Bolt EV with the results here. You might adjust them to your model year and locale.
Pirellis are real popular these days, and I have them from the factory on my EV, but they're not an option for the Bolt from what I see. I generally lean towards recommending Michelins in that case. Continentals are good and more affordable. But every tire model is different so do some deep research.
Do:
Decide:
Don't:
Depending on the car it might also be worth looking into online communities around the model, where people may be sharing their experiences with different models of tire.
I'm not likely to need to replace the tires on my Ariya while I'm leasing it, but for example I've read that there's a thread on the ariyaforums website where owners are discussing tires for that model.
Thanks. I drive pretty conservatively so my tires tend to last a long time, but I worry about this one because it's a lot taller and heavier so it tends to skid if I'm too aggressive on turns, and that's why I'm worrying about replacing them. My current tread levels are pretty good for the factory original tires on a car that has ~60K miles on it.
I'm fairly sure the ones that are on it right now are Goodyear Electricdrive, and it looks like that's pretty high up on the list here, so I might end up getting them when it's time. But as someone who cheaps out and tries to get tires for 100 each, having to pay more than double that is a real downer....
Prius Prime PHEV - great car but hated hated hated the infotainment system. Made using the car terrible.
Kia Niro PHEV - fine if underpowered
Kia EV6 - best car I’ve ever driven. Love it. They are crazy cheap used now.
Kia Sorrento PHEV - too expensive for what it is. Again, it’s fine but nothing special for the price tag.
Has anyone owned or tried any of the BYD range?
They seem pretty appealing but I've not heard much evidence from real people on what they are actually like day to day.
The European car reviewers on YouTube have done a lot of videos on Chinese-built EVs, including BYD vehicles and the Volvo EX30. But there are only a couple of videos by people who have lived with the car and driven it regularly for weeks or months (1 year ownership update | 15,000km | BYD Seal 10,000km Owner Review). Incidentally, the first video mentions BYD's reverse noise changing to a new one. My Volvo uses the first one as well and I wonder if BYD got into trouble with Geely (Volvo's parent) for having shared sounds).
Here are a couple more videos that are not super in-depth, but bring up different things worth knowing (We Drove Our BYD For 20,000 Km | BYD Dolphin. Do we still love it after three months?).
It might be worth watching those and if you're really interested in buying a BYD in the future then looking into some forums talking about build quality, realistic range, phone app experience, maintenance, and general ownership experiences.