I've kind of wondered how much I should care about that. What's the chances the battery life is hurting in a used EV, versus the chances the last owner of a used ICE car only changed the oil every...
I've kind of wondered how much I should care about that. What's the chances the battery life is hurting in a used EV, versus the chances the last owner of a used ICE car only changed the oil every 40k miles? Is a used EV actually more risky than a used ICE? Genuine questions coming from someone who will be needing a new vehicle in the next 4ish years, and would like to go all electric.
EVs require almost no maintenance whatsoever, so you don’t need to worry about that side of things. Battery health is pretty correlated to mileage, so you just need to do research on how a...
EVs require almost no maintenance whatsoever, so you don’t need to worry about that side of things. Battery health is pretty correlated to mileage, so you just need to do research on how a specific model holds up with mileage.
Yeah. I believe the Technology Connections guy just put out a video saying that battery life on used EVs is less of a worry point than previously reported. I'm sure a lot of people are looking at...
Yeah. I believe the Technology Connections guy just put out a video saying that battery life on used EVs is less of a worry point than previously reported.
I'm sure a lot of people are looking at EVs with the soaring gas prices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NG4hycq8n0 -- For those that don't want to go searching, and want the latest version of the video and not his older one. 52 minutes or so long. He's thorough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NG4hycq8n0 -- For those that don't want to go searching, and want the latest version of the video and not his older one. 52 minutes or so long. He's thorough.
That just means they recharge while braking, not that brake maintenance is lessened. That being said, I don't know how the actual brakes are built compared to the traditional types.
Most EVs have things like regenerative brakes
That just means they recharge while braking, not that brake maintenance is lessened. That being said, I don't know how the actual brakes are built compared to the traditional types.
Because of the resistance that charges the battery when you lift off the throttle, and the one-pedal driving philosophy, you aren't actually engaging the brakes to slow down as frequently as you...
Because of the resistance that charges the battery when you lift off the throttle, and the one-pedal driving philosophy, you aren't actually engaging the brakes to slow down as frequently as you otherwise would. It's like dynamically being able to shift to a very low gear. Conventional cars are capable of this, too, but it's more aggressive and prevalent on EVs because of how the "drive train" works.
It’s both. Regenerative breaking doesn’t use the brake pads, it runs the electric motors in reverse essentially. The braking force is applied by the electromagnetic resistance caused by lenz’s...
It’s both. Regenerative breaking doesn’t use the brake pads, it runs the electric motors in reverse essentially. The braking force is applied by the electromagnetic resistance caused by lenz’s law.
Of course, you can’t only use regenerative braking, so there will be wear on the mechanical breaks. But it is less.
It’s similar to engine braking in manual cars, but more effective at slower speeds (which arguably comes up much more in start and stop urban traffic).
I didn't realize that was what it was, thanks for the explanation. But the EV still has brakes, but obviously they will be used a lot less than a non-EV.
I didn't realize that was what it was, thanks for the explanation.
But the EV still has brakes, but obviously they will be used a lot less than a non-EV.
A lot less, actually! To the point, depending on driving style of course, you might have to go get brake maintenance done for rust reasons first, rather than because they’re wearing down from usage…
A lot less, actually! To the point, depending on driving style of course, you might have to go get brake maintenance done for rust reasons first, rather than because they’re wearing down from usage…
Regen braking doesn't use any mechanical force to slow the car, like others have said. Depending on the quality of the regen braking, you might not use mechanical brakes at all in a normal drive....
Regen braking doesn't use any mechanical force to slow the car, like others have said. Depending on the quality of the regen braking, you might not use mechanical brakes at all in a normal drive. Mine is good enough that 98% of my braking is regen braking only.
Yeah that's not a thing. Also the idea that normal brake system maintenance involves completely draining down the system every two years is pretty absurd.
Yeah that's not a thing. Also the idea that normal brake system maintenance involves completely draining down the system every two years is pretty absurd.
I actually did a bit of research on this and the manual for my 2020 Bolt EV recommends replacing the brake fluid every five years. It doesn’t say anything about replacing the master cylinder or...
I actually did a bit of research on this and the manual for my 2020 Bolt EV recommends replacing the brake fluid every five years. It doesn’t say anything about replacing the master cylinder or the brake pads at any period; just replace the brakes when it gets to the indicator and/or it starts squeaking, whichever you notice first.
In other words, exactly the same as every car out there.
You can do a complete brake system flush every whatever number of years like they say, it won't hurt anything except your wallet. If you don't do it, you may get ever so poorer braking performance...
You can do a complete brake system flush every whatever number of years like they say, it won't hurt anything except your wallet. If you don't do it, you may get ever so poorer braking performance very very slowly over the years as the fluid eventually breaks down (I assume?) and absorbs a small amount of moisture from the air whenever the master cylinder cap is off. But imo it's really not that critical - I wouldn't bother flushing the system at all ever until a line has to be taken off to replace a caliper or something like that, which may never happen if you replace the pads when you should.
Generally speaking the one area where EVs require more maintenance than ICEs is tire replacement. The additional torque in these vehicles means your average driver has a little more lead in their...
Generally speaking the one area where EVs require more maintenance than ICEs is tire replacement. The additional torque in these vehicles means your average driver has a little more lead in their foot. Tires get run down a little faster. It isn't even due to the additional weight of the vehicle, per my understanding.
As was said, brakes are often not replaced for 30,000-60,000 or more miles due to the regen systems.
EVs are excellent. Never going back. Did a hybrid for a decade with 42MPG. The idea of having to go back to an ICE is the stuff of backwards nightmares for me at this point!
https://thetirereviews.com/why-do-tires-wear-out-faster-on-electric-vehicles/ Honestly, you can find articles discussing both weight and torque all over the place in terms of attribution. Truth of...
Driving Habits and Tire Wear
The instant torque and acceleration capabilities of electric vehicles can lead to more aggressive driving styles, which in turn can accelerate tire wear rates. With the ability to rapidly accelerate from a standstill, EV drivers may be more inclined to take advantage of the vehicle’s impressive performance, resulting in increased tire stress and wear.
Aggressive driving behaviors such as rapid acceleration, hard cornering, and sudden braking can cause excessive heat buildup in the tires, leading to premature wear and potential damage. The increased traction and grip provided by the instant torque can also contribute to increased tire wear, as the tires are subjected to greater forces during acceleration and cornering.
Honestly, you can find articles discussing both weight and torque all over the place in terms of attribution.
Truth of the matter is I'm definitely more in the "going fast with more torque" problem set than "my car weighs twice what my old one did" camp, because I focus on buying the smallest possible EV for my needs.
I'm surprised they haven't eliminated the 12V batteries in EVs. I would think manufacturers could easily have a step-down switching power supply running off the main drivetrain batteries to...
I'm surprised they haven't eliminated the 12V batteries in EVs. I would think manufacturers could easily have a step-down switching power supply running off the main drivetrain batteries to provide 12V for systems that need it. It's not like it would need a huge amount of current capability to turn a starter motor over, and it likely would be cheaper than the 12V lead acid batteries they're installing, and certainly less of a maintenance pain.
They're mostly not lead acid batteries anymore. They're LIons just like the main batteries. You could definitely use a buck converter to step down to 12v from the high voltage system, but the...
They're mostly not lead acid batteries anymore. They're LIons just like the main batteries.
You could definitely use a buck converter to step down to 12v from the high voltage system, but the battery isn't there because they couldn't figure out a better way to get 12v. It's there as an auxiliary power system.
If the high voltage system fails, you still want to be able to power the display systems, computers, BMS, emergency communications systems and so on so that the driver doesn't just get a completely dead, unresponsive car. Otherwise, if your battery overheats and shuts down in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, you'd have a car which would just go completely dark. No warning lights, no headlights or cabin lights, no diagnostic message, no heater, just a dark, dead car.
If cells are in critical states, you want an independent system to be able to cut power without cutting power to itself.
I suspect that the exact opposite will happen as time goes on, rather than eliminating 12v batteries in EVs, we'll get higher voltage auxiliary power systems as more and more of the cars functions are electrically powered, like steer by wire systems and so on.
The one thing I hated about my first generation Leaf was that it used a lead acid 12v battery. It basically guaranteed that every ~2 years I would have a dead car because the battery would die. I...
The one thing I hated about my first generation Leaf was that it used a lead acid 12v battery. It basically guaranteed that every ~2 years I would have a dead car because the battery would die.
I haven’t actually checked to see what my Bolt uses but I have had it for a few years and I haven’t needed to replace it yet, and that is enough to make me happy.
I had a similar thought when I initially bought my EV. It's a 2019 Chevy Bolt. It uses a deep cycle lead acid battery (similar to marine batteries, different design from starter batteries for...
I had a similar thought when I initially bought my EV. It's a 2019 Chevy Bolt. It uses a deep cycle lead acid battery (similar to marine batteries, different design from starter batteries for lower current applications than starting an engine).
So in addition to what @papasquat noted, I've noticed that it also provides isolation from the high voltage system. When the car is off, I'm pretty sure the high voltage battery is isolated from everything with relays (little electronically activated switches for bridging circuits). So in a sense I think it's also a safety thing so that you can still have power in the low voltage system (for lights and the computer system) without the high voltage system needing to be engaged.
The major ones to worry about are pre-2017 EVs with older battery management systems. The biggest offender is the Nissan Leaf, which didn’t have active cooling until last year I believe.
The major ones to worry about are pre-2017 EVs with older battery management systems. The biggest offender is the Nissan Leaf, which didn’t have active cooling until last year I believe.
The leaf has always had active cooling AFAIK. My 2012 model had liquid cooling and I actually broke it down because I didnt realize I was supposed to top off the coolant. Other ones to worry about...
The leaf has always had active cooling AFAIK. My 2012 model had liquid cooling and I actually broke it down because I didnt realize I was supposed to top off the coolant.
Other ones to worry about are the Mitsubishi I-MiEV and the Fiat 500i. There are probably more to watch out for if you are outside of the US.
I was curious, so I looked. The Leaf does have a fan, and coolant, but only the former is for the batteries. The latter is for the motor, inverter, converter, and on-board charger (basically all...
A friend of mine has a first generation Nissan Leaf and he replaced the battery shortly after he bought it, I think like 4-5ish years ago. He had to get some translator for the battery. As far as...
A friend of mine has a first generation Nissan Leaf and he replaced the battery shortly after he bought it, I think like 4-5ish years ago. He had to get some translator for the battery. As far as I know he hasn't had issues with the cooling of the battery.
The part that heats coolant for cabin heat failed recently, so he bought his own heater hose and ran it to the back of the car where he installed a diesel heater, hooked it up to the diesel heater and it worked. He even left the broken part in the loop, so the part that used battery power to heat up the coolant is still there but doesn't do anything, then he turns on the diesel heater which heats the coolant and then for the cabin controls he just turns on the heat with the fan I believe (or maybe just the fan, I can't recall now), and the fan blows air over the heater core like normal and blows in hot air to the cabin.
So he ended up getting extended range in the winter compared to what he got before because his cabin heat was no longer drawing power from the battery.
I can only speak to Tesla's and their battery degradation is pretty well documented nowadays. There is a sharp drop in people's first year of ownership but the degradation then levels off and is...
I can only speak to Tesla's and their battery degradation is pretty well documented nowadays. There is a sharp drop in people's first year of ownership but the degradation then levels off and is fairly mild. I think Tesla's claims of ~10% degradation over 100k miles has proven to be true. My cousin purchased his Model 3 brand new in 2022, which then had an estimated 270 miles of range. Nowadays, some 40k miles in, he gets ~250 miles, which tracks with what I've read for estimated degradation. People lose ~5% in the first year and then ~1% each year after that, assuming an average of 15k miles/yr.
Beyond that, as others have pointed out, maintenance on EVs is fairly limited. You have your standard brakes/tires that need to be replaced in regular intervals and then like washer fluid but there's nothing else you really need to worry about. As u/nukeman points out though, if you go for the "first" gen of EVs that came onto the market 2012-2018ish, you do have to pay more attention to the battery tech and battery management tech. I'm not knowledgable enough here to really give advice but depending on your usage and the climate in your area, those EVs could also be worth looking into.
Overall, I will say I don't think EVs are inherently more risky than ICEs. Low maintenance + low running costs is truly something I envy.
You should care about battery health and take a look at it. A better analogy would be an ICE car with a motor that is about to dissinegrate and the seller is trying to hide the symptoms and claim...
You should care about battery health and take a look at it.
A better analogy would be an ICE car with a motor that is about to dissinegrate and the seller is trying to hide the symptoms and claim it's all good.
I don't think a used EV is more risky than a used ICE. As we get more and more old EV's we'll get a better baseline on how they hold up. I'm curious to see what 20+ year old EV's will look like.
Oof. I went to check Wikipedia, since I was curious -- the Leaf is 16 years old! Admittedly IIRC their batteries were trash, and failed prematurely, but I see a bunch of them still rolling around...
I'm curious to see what 20+ year old EV's will look like.
Oof. I went to check Wikipedia, since I was curious -- the Leaf is 16 years old! Admittedly IIRC their batteries were trash, and failed prematurely, but I see a bunch of them still rolling around (and the tech improved dramatically once we realized that battery cooling was necessary).
We had a 1st gen leaf for a few years in 2013 ish (seperate story) and at that time we just thought that after 10 years it would need a new battery period. Looking at it now there are a good...
We had a 1st gen leaf for a few years in 2013 ish (seperate story) and at that time we just thought that after 10 years it would need a new battery period. Looking at it now there are a good amount of 10+ year old leafs for sale and some of them the battery is almost toast, some of them are doing great and I wonder if that's mostly down to how people took care of their battery (not fast charging that poor battery and not charging to 100% every night).
I love how EV's drive as daily drivers, I want them to be good long term!
I bought a used EV a bit over a year ago. I figured that since it had a transferrable 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and electric drivetrain I was fine -- no worse off than the first...
I bought a used EV a bit over a year ago. I figured that since it had a transferrable 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and electric drivetrain I was fine -- no worse off than the first owner. I have 5 years of warranty, and if it doesn't fail by then it'll probably last for a long time -- the data so far suggests that EV batteries are outliving the cars that they're installed in.
Across the U.S., people like Shepard are finding that used EVs are more attractively priced than ever — and are snapping the cars up as a result. It’s a welcome development in what has otherwise been a tough year for an industry that’s key to combatting climate change.
With the oil shock created by the war in Iran, used EVs are likely to become even more attractive to shoppers. Nationally, gas prices have surged to over $4 per gallon on average; in California, the country’s EV capital, they’re nearing $6. Unlike new EVs, used versions have mostly reached priced parity with gas-powered cars, according to new data from Cox Automotive — making the preowned versions the cheapest way for people to ditch increasingly costly-to-fuel gas cars in the near term.
[...]
New EV sales dropped by 28% year over year in the first quarter of 2026, per Cox. That was primarily driven by the loss of federal tax credits under the megabill passed by Republicans in Congress last year.
By contrast, used EV sales increased by 12% over the same period. The reason? Declining prices. The average cost of a used EV is now within about $1,300 of a comparable gas vehicle, Stephanie Valdez Streaty, director of industry insights at Cox Automotive, said during a March forecast call. “That affordability shift has clearly shown up in the data,” she said, “significantly expanding access for mainstream buyers.”
In the U.S., new EVs still outsell used ones. That’s likely to change as the market matures, since the overall used car market is roughly three times as large as the new car market. Right now, EVs make up only about 2% of the used car market, but that share is growing, according to Cox data.
[...]
These latest data points aren’t coming out of left field, said Scott Case, CEO of Recurrent, a data-science firm specializing in collecting information on used EVs. His company tracked a 35% increase in used EV sales from 2024 to 2025, as well as a consistent downward trend in pricing, with 56% of used EVs selling for $30,000 or less as of January.
[...]
In particular, a lot of those used EVs are coming off leases made popular by a “leasing loophole” that allowed automakers and dealers to offer a full $7,500 federal tax credit, without the income qualification and manufacturer restrictions that applied to claiming the credit on direct sales.
[...]
And the latest vintages of used EVs offer an impressive value when compared with their gas-powered equivalents, Case said. Recurrent’s latest data indicates that a used EV is a year newer and has nearly 30,000 fewer miles than a similarly priced used gas car.
I have a 2023 Ioniq 5 on the way in the next week or two. I needed to buy a second vehicle and I just couldn't see myself getting a pure gas vehicle again. Our only vehicle we have had for the...
I have a 2023 Ioniq 5 on the way in the next week or two. I needed to buy a second vehicle and I just couldn't see myself getting a pure gas vehicle again. Our only vehicle we have had for the past couple of years has been a 2017 Chevy Volt, and honestly, if GM made another one today I would be all over it. A PHEV with 60-70 miles of EV range with a gas generator for back up would be my ideal vehicle.
When the Ioniq 5 arrives in a few weeks, I am thinking of just going on a long road trip to see what the charging conditions will be like.
[useless moaning] Even at a "bargain", those used are still $25,000+ CAD used. Life has just gotten crazy expensive. We have an aging vehicle that I've been mulling over selling, and it's only...
[useless moaning]
Even at a "bargain", those used are still $25,000+ CAD used. Life has just gotten crazy expensive. We have an aging vehicle that I've been mulling over selling, and it's only aging more every day, but the trouble has always been that I don't have the money to replace it with anything other than another one just as old and falling apart. I think if wages have kept up with pricing this kind of price tag would be fine. I remember new cars being <$20,000 and my salary hasn't moved much since.
May I ask if you've looked into whether any of the new Chinese EVs being let into Canada would work for your situation? When I first saw that announcement, I had a feeling that they'd all be...
May I ask if you've looked into whether any of the new Chinese EVs being let into Canada would work for your situation? When I first saw that announcement, I had a feeling that they'd all be premium vehicles that're bought up by dealerships (and it seems like Volvo and Tesla have taken the opportunity to do so), but maybe there's a path to importing a BYD Dolphin on the cheap?
The govt is working on opening dealerships for BYDs soon, so I'll see. But I'm also going to be extra skeptical about the security issue That aside, I highly doubt they'll retail for under...
The govt is working on opening dealerships for BYDs soon, so I'll see. But I'm also going to be extra skeptical about the security issue
That aside, I highly doubt they'll retail for under $20,000, and (again with the personal family historic issue) there's no way I am buying a Chinese vehicle unless it's well less than half the price all else being equal
Probably not as bad as you think. Just make sure you enter in fast chargers to the GPS otherwise it won't precondition the battery and you won't get the max charge rate out of the car. The Ioniq...
When the Ioniq 5 arrives in a few weeks, I am thinking of just going on a long road trip to see what the charging conditions will be like.
Probably not as bad as you think. Just make sure you enter in fast chargers to the GPS otherwise it won't precondition the battery and you won't get the max charge rate out of the car. The Ioniq doesn't have manual battery conditioning as an option. That means you need to update the infotainment system to get new charger locations. Luckily Hyundai lets you download the update to a usb drive from their website so you can do it yourself unlike older vehicles.
Our friend at Technology Connections has you covered, and is even himself using a 2023 Ioniq 5. Keep in mind this video is a road trip in extreme cold. The car does great, and with warmer weather...
Our friend at Technology Connections has you covered, and is even himself using a 2023 Ioniq 5. Keep in mind this video is a road trip in extreme cold. The car does great, and with warmer weather does even better.
Well, I'm coming up on one year with a used 2023 Chevy Bolt 2LT operated in a cold climate. Cost: $16k at 23,000 miles. Real numbers at 80% charging: summer range, 240 miles; winter range (average...
Well, I'm coming up on one year with a used 2023 Chevy Bolt 2LT operated in a cold climate. Cost: $16k at 23,000 miles. Real numbers at 80% charging: summer range, 240 miles; winter range (average temp, around -7°C), 120 miles.
I love driving it - it's got more than enough acceleration, comfort, maneuverability, cargo capacity, etc. in routine commuter use. I charge it on weekends with a standard 120v outlet, rarely with a public parking space level 2 charger if I have more driving to do than a weekend charge will cover quickly.
If I had a do-over (and more money), I might have gotten something with AWD and more range in winter. This season's very heavy snow and ice were a challenge with front wheel-only drive, and I spun the wheels more than once even with high-quality snow tires. I had to swap cars with my spouse for the rush 200 mile trip when my relative was hospitalized, since I wasn't going to take time to stop and charge on the way.
But I hated driving an ICE car again given the sluggish acceleration, noise, fuel cost, etc.
Good lord. 50% range loss in freezing winter conditions? Good to know. Is the Bolt unusually bad in that regard because it doesn't have any kind of heater for battery conditioning?
Good lord. 50% range loss in freezing winter conditions? Good to know. Is the Bolt unusually bad in that regard because it doesn't have any kind of heater for battery conditioning?
I've tried starting the vehicle (parked in an unheated garage) and running the heater for 10 minutes on line power before starting to roll, and it doesn't appear to make any difference. To be...
I've tried starting the vehicle (parked in an unheated garage) and running the heater for 10 minutes on line power before starting to roll, and it doesn't appear to make any difference. To be fair, a considerable amount of that driving was also much slower than usual due to very inclement conditions.
Edit: This is in the reported range of battery capacity loss on the Bolt forum for short trips at these temperatures, and cabin heating is a hog.
Replying to both you and @DynamoSunshirt, that range loss is partly because of battery heating (cold batteries can't supply as much current so keeping it warm in the cold makes sure you cans still...
Replying to both you and @DynamoSunshirt, that range loss is partly because of battery heating (cold batteries can't supply as much current so keeping it warm in the cold makes sure you cans still accelerate normally), but is almost entirely from running the cabin heater. The car heats using an electric resistance heater and cars don't have a ton of insulation, so you're basically always drawing 1-3 kW for heating depending on how cold it is. That said, you can just turn off the cabin heater if you don't mind the cold. If you were parked in the garage and heated it while parked, you could probably do short trips without getting too cold. In my experience also in a cold climate, the added drain just means I need to charge an extra time during the week. And the extra charge feels worth not being cold while driving.
I have a 2019 Bolt, but as far as I know none of the Bolts have heat pumps for heating yet which would be much more efficient. I think Teslas and maybe 1 or 2 other manufacturers have heat pumps in their EVs, but a heat pump adds expense over a resistance heater.
@patience_limited, related to your high level comment, I too wish the Bolt was AWD. Better tired made a huge difference in the snow this year, but that is the one thing I miss about the IC car I sold. It was AWD and handled phenomenal in the snow. The Bolt is certainly capable in the snow with better tires, but it's still not as controlled of an experience when things get slushy or really icy. :/
To my understanding, many (most?) newer model EVs actually have heat pumps now, which make heating the cabin notably more energy efficient in most scenarios. I can understand GM not having it in...
To my understanding, many (most?) newer model EVs actually have heat pumps now, which make heating the cabin notably more energy efficient in most scenarios. I can understand GM not having it in the bolt because that’s supposed to be their cheap EV model, but apparently the 2027 model will have one.
I've got some health concerns that result in tolerating cold very poorly. Whatever vehicle I'm in, I'm going to be running all the available heating components during the winter, in addition to...
I've got some health concerns that result in tolerating cold very poorly. Whatever vehicle I'm in, I'm going to be running all the available heating components during the winter, in addition to wearing a heated vest and gloves. As you said, the extra weekly charge plug-in isn't much of a problem unless the distance is greater than my short commutes.
I don't own an EV, but I do have a small car. Sizing up the tires in width actually made a pretty good impact in snow. Previously I was using the stock size tire, which I think was 185/55r16 and...
I don't own an EV, but I do have a small car. Sizing up the tires in width actually made a pretty good impact in snow. Previously I was using the stock size tire, which I think was 185/55r16 and after twelve years of owning the car, I finally made the choice to go with a wider tire, which I think was a 205? I can't recall exactly and I can't check as the my wife took the car to work, but it handles significantly better and handles the snow significantly better than those skinny stock tires.
I've noticed most EVs have pretty skinny tires, I'm assuming to eliminate rolling resistance, but if I were to own one, I'd definitely size up and take the hit on range so I could have something that performs better in a general context.
I think an interesting experiment would be to run a space heater (safely!) in the cabin on an extension cord and see if that made a difference in range...
I think an interesting experiment would be to run a space heater (safely!) in the cabin on an extension cord and see if that made a difference in range...
Biggest risk is battery quality/life, right? How easy is it to check & verify that nowadays?
I've kind of wondered how much I should care about that. What's the chances the battery life is hurting in a used EV, versus the chances the last owner of a used ICE car only changed the oil every 40k miles? Is a used EV actually more risky than a used ICE? Genuine questions coming from someone who will be needing a new vehicle in the next 4ish years, and would like to go all electric.
EVs require almost no maintenance whatsoever, so you don’t need to worry about that side of things. Battery health is pretty correlated to mileage, so you just need to do research on how a specific model holds up with mileage.
Yeah. I believe the Technology Connections guy just put out a video saying that battery life on used EVs is less of a worry point than previously reported.
I'm sure a lot of people are looking at EVs with the soaring gas prices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NG4hycq8n0 -- For those that don't want to go searching, and want the latest version of the video and not his older one. 52 minutes or so long. He's thorough.
Well, their power trains don't. They still have regular car stuff, like brakes, suspension, steering, electrical systems and so on.
Eh. Most EVs have things like regenerative brakes / one-pedal driving, and so even that you have to worry about less.
That just means they recharge while braking, not that brake maintenance is lessened. That being said, I don't know how the actual brakes are built compared to the traditional types.
Because of the resistance that charges the battery when you lift off the throttle, and the one-pedal driving philosophy, you aren't actually engaging the brakes to slow down as frequently as you otherwise would. It's like dynamically being able to shift to a very low gear. Conventional cars are capable of this, too, but it's more aggressive and prevalent on EVs because of how the "drive train" works.
Yeah, I drive manual transmission. I wasn't aware EVs had a separate mechanism though.
It’s both. Regenerative breaking doesn’t use the brake pads, it runs the electric motors in reverse essentially. The braking force is applied by the electromagnetic resistance caused by lenz’s law.
Of course, you can’t only use regenerative braking, so there will be wear on the mechanical breaks. But it is less.
It’s similar to engine braking in manual cars, but more effective at slower speeds (which arguably comes up much more in start and stop urban traffic).
I didn't realize that was what it was, thanks for the explanation.
But the EV still has brakes, but obviously they will be used a lot less than a non-EV.
A lot less, actually! To the point, depending on driving style of course, you might have to go get brake maintenance done for rust reasons first, rather than because they’re wearing down from usage…
Regen braking doesn't use any mechanical force to slow the car, like others have said. Depending on the quality of the regen braking, you might not use mechanical brakes at all in a normal drive. Mine is good enough that 98% of my braking is regen braking only.
I was completely unaware of this, my bad.
I have literally never heard of brake pads degrading from lack of use before.
Yeah that's not a thing. Also the idea that normal brake system maintenance involves completely draining down the system every two years is pretty absurd.
I actually did a bit of research on this and the manual for my 2020 Bolt EV recommends replacing the brake fluid every five years. It doesn’t say anything about replacing the master cylinder or the brake pads at any period; just replace the brakes when it gets to the indicator and/or it starts squeaking, whichever you notice first.
In other words, exactly the same as every car out there.
You can do a complete brake system flush every whatever number of years like they say, it won't hurt anything except your wallet. If you don't do it, you may get ever so poorer braking performance very very slowly over the years as the fluid eventually breaks down (I assume?) and absorbs a small amount of moisture from the air whenever the master cylinder cap is off. But imo it's really not that critical - I wouldn't bother flushing the system at all ever until a line has to be taken off to replace a caliper or something like that, which may never happen if you replace the pads when you should.
Well, today I learned! Duly noted. I will now be more diligent about my Bolt. Appreciated!!
Generally speaking the one area where EVs require more maintenance than ICEs is tire replacement. The additional torque in these vehicles means your average driver has a little more lead in their foot. Tires get run down a little faster. It isn't even due to the additional weight of the vehicle, per my understanding.
As was said, brakes are often not replaced for 30,000-60,000 or more miles due to the regen systems.
EVs are excellent. Never going back. Did a hybrid for a decade with 42MPG. The idea of having to go back to an ICE is the stuff of backwards nightmares for me at this point!
Well, that, and they tend to be quite a bit heavier than comparable ICE vehicles
https://thetirereviews.com/why-do-tires-wear-out-faster-on-electric-vehicles/
Honestly, you can find articles discussing both weight and torque all over the place in terms of attribution.
Truth of the matter is I'm definitely more in the "going fast with more torque" problem set than "my car weighs twice what my old one did" camp, because I focus on buying the smallest possible EV for my needs.
I'm surprised they haven't eliminated the 12V batteries in EVs. I would think manufacturers could easily have a step-down switching power supply running off the main drivetrain batteries to provide 12V for systems that need it. It's not like it would need a huge amount of current capability to turn a starter motor over, and it likely would be cheaper than the 12V lead acid batteries they're installing, and certainly less of a maintenance pain.
They're mostly not lead acid batteries anymore. They're LIons just like the main batteries.
You could definitely use a buck converter to step down to 12v from the high voltage system, but the battery isn't there because they couldn't figure out a better way to get 12v. It's there as an auxiliary power system.
If the high voltage system fails, you still want to be able to power the display systems, computers, BMS, emergency communications systems and so on so that the driver doesn't just get a completely dead, unresponsive car. Otherwise, if your battery overheats and shuts down in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, you'd have a car which would just go completely dark. No warning lights, no headlights or cabin lights, no diagnostic message, no heater, just a dark, dead car.
If cells are in critical states, you want an independent system to be able to cut power without cutting power to itself.
I suspect that the exact opposite will happen as time goes on, rather than eliminating 12v batteries in EVs, we'll get higher voltage auxiliary power systems as more and more of the cars functions are electrically powered, like steer by wire systems and so on.
Ah, yes. That makes total sense. I hadn't considered the redundancy / isolation / control systems availability side of this.
The one thing I hated about my first generation Leaf was that it used a lead acid 12v battery. It basically guaranteed that every ~2 years I would have a dead car because the battery would die.
I haven’t actually checked to see what my Bolt uses but I have had it for a few years and I haven’t needed to replace it yet, and that is enough to make me happy.
I had a similar thought when I initially bought my EV. It's a 2019 Chevy Bolt. It uses a deep cycle lead acid battery (similar to marine batteries, different design from starter batteries for lower current applications than starting an engine).
So in addition to what @papasquat noted, I've noticed that it also provides isolation from the high voltage system. When the car is off, I'm pretty sure the high voltage battery is isolated from everything with relays (little electronically activated switches for bridging circuits). So in a sense I think it's also a safety thing so that you can still have power in the low voltage system (for lights and the computer system) without the high voltage system needing to be engaged.
The major ones to worry about are pre-2017 EVs with older battery management systems. The biggest offender is the Nissan Leaf, which didn’t have active cooling until last year I believe.
The leaf has always had active cooling AFAIK. My 2012 model had liquid cooling and I actually broke it down because I didnt realize I was supposed to top off the coolant.
Other ones to worry about are the Mitsubishi I-MiEV and the Fiat 500i. There are probably more to watch out for if you are outside of the US.
I was curious, so I looked. The Leaf does have a fan, and coolant, but only the former is for the batteries. The latter is for the motor, inverter, converter, and on-board charger (basically all the HV components except the batteries).
A friend of mine has a first generation Nissan Leaf and he replaced the battery shortly after he bought it, I think like 4-5ish years ago. He had to get some translator for the battery. As far as I know he hasn't had issues with the cooling of the battery.
The part that heats coolant for cabin heat failed recently, so he bought his own heater hose and ran it to the back of the car where he installed a diesel heater, hooked it up to the diesel heater and it worked. He even left the broken part in the loop, so the part that used battery power to heat up the coolant is still there but doesn't do anything, then he turns on the diesel heater which heats the coolant and then for the cabin controls he just turns on the heat with the fan I believe (or maybe just the fan, I can't recall now), and the fan blows air over the heater core like normal and blows in hot air to the cabin.
So he ended up getting extended range in the winter compared to what he got before because his cabin heat was no longer drawing power from the battery.
I can only speak to Tesla's and their battery degradation is pretty well documented nowadays. There is a sharp drop in people's first year of ownership but the degradation then levels off and is fairly mild. I think Tesla's claims of ~10% degradation over 100k miles has proven to be true. My cousin purchased his Model 3 brand new in 2022, which then had an estimated 270 miles of range. Nowadays, some 40k miles in, he gets ~250 miles, which tracks with what I've read for estimated degradation. People lose ~5% in the first year and then ~1% each year after that, assuming an average of 15k miles/yr.
Beyond that, as others have pointed out, maintenance on EVs is fairly limited. You have your standard brakes/tires that need to be replaced in regular intervals and then like washer fluid but there's nothing else you really need to worry about. As u/nukeman points out though, if you go for the "first" gen of EVs that came onto the market 2012-2018ish, you do have to pay more attention to the battery tech and battery management tech. I'm not knowledgable enough here to really give advice but depending on your usage and the climate in your area, those EVs could also be worth looking into.
Overall, I will say I don't think EVs are inherently more risky than ICEs. Low maintenance + low running costs is truly something I envy.
You should care about battery health and take a look at it.
A better analogy would be an ICE car with a motor that is about to dissinegrate and the seller is trying to hide the symptoms and claim it's all good.
I don't think a used EV is more risky than a used ICE. As we get more and more old EV's we'll get a better baseline on how they hold up. I'm curious to see what 20+ year old EV's will look like.
Oof. I went to check Wikipedia, since I was curious -- the Leaf is 16 years old! Admittedly IIRC their batteries were trash, and failed prematurely, but I see a bunch of them still rolling around (and the tech improved dramatically once we realized that battery cooling was necessary).
We had a 1st gen leaf for a few years in 2013 ish (seperate story) and at that time we just thought that after 10 years it would need a new battery period. Looking at it now there are a good amount of 10+ year old leafs for sale and some of them the battery is almost toast, some of them are doing great and I wonder if that's mostly down to how people took care of their battery (not fast charging that poor battery and not charging to 100% every night).
I love how EV's drive as daily drivers, I want them to be good long term!
I bought a used EV a bit over a year ago. I figured that since it had a transferrable 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and electric drivetrain I was fine -- no worse off than the first owner. I have 5 years of warranty, and if it doesn't fail by then it'll probably last for a long time -- the data so far suggests that EV batteries are outliving the cars that they're installed in.
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I have a 2023 Ioniq 5 on the way in the next week or two. I needed to buy a second vehicle and I just couldn't see myself getting a pure gas vehicle again. Our only vehicle we have had for the past couple of years has been a 2017 Chevy Volt, and honestly, if GM made another one today I would be all over it. A PHEV with 60-70 miles of EV range with a gas generator for back up would be my ideal vehicle.
When the Ioniq 5 arrives in a few weeks, I am thinking of just going on a long road trip to see what the charging conditions will be like.
[useless moaning]
Even at a "bargain", those used are still $25,000+ CAD used. Life has just gotten crazy expensive. We have an aging vehicle that I've been mulling over selling, and it's only aging more every day, but the trouble has always been that I don't have the money to replace it with anything other than another one just as old and falling apart. I think if wages have kept up with pricing this kind of price tag would be fine. I remember new cars being <$20,000 and my salary hasn't moved much since.
May I ask if you've looked into whether any of the new Chinese EVs being let into Canada would work for your situation? When I first saw that announcement, I had a feeling that they'd all be premium vehicles that're bought up by dealerships (and it seems like Volvo and Tesla have taken the opportunity to do so), but maybe there's a path to importing a BYD Dolphin on the cheap?
The govt is working on opening dealerships for BYDs soon, so I'll see. But I'm also going to be extra skeptical about the security issue
That aside, I highly doubt they'll retail for under $20,000, and (again with the personal family historic issue) there's no way I am buying a Chinese vehicle unless it's well less than half the price all else being equal
Probably not as bad as you think. Just make sure you enter in fast chargers to the GPS otherwise it won't precondition the battery and you won't get the max charge rate out of the car. The Ioniq doesn't have manual battery conditioning as an option. That means you need to update the infotainment system to get new charger locations. Luckily Hyundai lets you download the update to a usb drive from their website so you can do it yourself unlike older vehicles.
Our friend at Technology Connections has you covered, and is even himself using a 2023 Ioniq 5. Keep in mind this video is a road trip in extreme cold. The car does great, and with warmer weather does even better.
Well, I'm coming up on one year with a used 2023 Chevy Bolt 2LT operated in a cold climate. Cost: $16k at 23,000 miles. Real numbers at 80% charging: summer range, 240 miles; winter range (average temp, around -7°C), 120 miles.
I love driving it - it's got more than enough acceleration, comfort, maneuverability, cargo capacity, etc. in routine commuter use. I charge it on weekends with a standard 120v outlet, rarely with a public parking space level 2 charger if I have more driving to do than a weekend charge will cover quickly.
If I had a do-over (and more money), I might have gotten something with AWD and more range in winter. This season's very heavy snow and ice were a challenge with front wheel-only drive, and I spun the wheels more than once even with high-quality snow tires. I had to swap cars with my spouse for the rush 200 mile trip when my relative was hospitalized, since I wasn't going to take time to stop and charge on the way.
But I hated driving an ICE car again given the sluggish acceleration, noise, fuel cost, etc.
Good lord. 50% range loss in freezing winter conditions? Good to know. Is the Bolt unusually bad in that regard because it doesn't have any kind of heater for battery conditioning?
I've tried starting the vehicle (parked in an unheated garage) and running the heater for 10 minutes on line power before starting to roll, and it doesn't appear to make any difference. To be fair, a considerable amount of that driving was also much slower than usual due to very inclement conditions.
Edit: This is in the reported range of battery capacity loss on the Bolt forum for short trips at these temperatures, and cabin heating is a hog.
Replying to both you and @DynamoSunshirt, that range loss is partly because of battery heating (cold batteries can't supply as much current so keeping it warm in the cold makes sure you cans still accelerate normally), but is almost entirely from running the cabin heater. The car heats using an electric resistance heater and cars don't have a ton of insulation, so you're basically always drawing 1-3 kW for heating depending on how cold it is. That said, you can just turn off the cabin heater if you don't mind the cold. If you were parked in the garage and heated it while parked, you could probably do short trips without getting too cold. In my experience also in a cold climate, the added drain just means I need to charge an extra time during the week. And the extra charge feels worth not being cold while driving.
I have a 2019 Bolt, but as far as I know none of the Bolts have heat pumps for heating yet which would be much more efficient. I think Teslas and maybe 1 or 2 other manufacturers have heat pumps in their EVs, but a heat pump adds expense over a resistance heater.
@patience_limited, related to your high level comment, I too wish the Bolt was AWD. Better tired made a huge difference in the snow this year, but that is the one thing I miss about the IC car I sold. It was AWD and handled phenomenal in the snow. The Bolt is certainly capable in the snow with better tires, but it's still not as controlled of an experience when things get slushy or really icy. :/
To my understanding, many (most?) newer model EVs actually have heat pumps now, which make heating the cabin notably more energy efficient in most scenarios. I can understand GM not having it in the bolt because that’s supposed to be their cheap EV model, but apparently the 2027 model will have one.
I've got some health concerns that result in tolerating cold very poorly. Whatever vehicle I'm in, I'm going to be running all the available heating components during the winter, in addition to wearing a heated vest and gloves. As you said, the extra weekly charge plug-in isn't much of a problem unless the distance is greater than my short commutes.
I don't own an EV, but I do have a small car. Sizing up the tires in width actually made a pretty good impact in snow. Previously I was using the stock size tire, which I think was 185/55r16 and after twelve years of owning the car, I finally made the choice to go with a wider tire, which I think was a 205? I can't recall exactly and I can't check as the my wife took the car to work, but it handles significantly better and handles the snow significantly better than those skinny stock tires.
I've noticed most EVs have pretty skinny tires, I'm assuming to eliminate rolling resistance, but if I were to own one, I'd definitely size up and take the hit on range so I could have something that performs better in a general context.
I think an interesting experiment would be to run a space heater (safely!) in the cabin on an extension cord and see if that made a difference in range...