I really hope this continues to develop. Perfecting the process of growing consumable meat means processes that will contribute to growing replacement tissue for medical reasons. Tech often...
I really hope this continues to develop. Perfecting the process of growing consumable meat means processes that will contribute to growing replacement tissue for medical reasons. Tech often accelerates the fastest when big profits are to be made.
I'm excited for this because I despise the meat industry and their barbaric conditions, but meat itself is a great ingredient in food. I hadn't considered the medical applications, that's...
I'm excited for this because I despise the meat industry and their barbaric conditions, but meat itself is a great ingredient in food. I hadn't considered the medical applications, that's intriguing as well, to at least get a consistent baseline of tissue reproduction for future complex organ growth.
Same here.. I don't have the willpower to be a vegetarian but I dislike the meat industry and how it treats their animals as well as meat is not very environmental at all either. I would love to...
Same here.. I don't have the willpower to be a vegetarian but I dislike the meat industry and how it treats their animals as well as meat is not very environmental at all either.
I would love to have meat I could eat without feeling bad about the conditions the animals came from or the effects it has had on the environment to raise that meat.
Animal husbandry is not by default bad for the environment, it is at the scale and the way it is done in many countries. But we shouldn’t stop completely. Agriculture is a big source of greenhouse...
Animal husbandry is not by default bad for the environment, it is at the scale and the way it is done in many countries. But we shouldn’t stop completely.
Agriculture is a big source of greenhouse gases and environmental damage. One big reason for that is the use of artificial fertilizers, and it generically being an open system.
Animals can play a big role in turning agriculture into more of a closed loop system, where the goal is to minimize external inputs.
This is a touchy topic to discuss online, it seems. Anytime it is brought up, it gets a lot of knee jerk reactions. It is important to see agricultural as a large symbiotic process, and not just individual bars of carbon emissions on a graph somewhere.
I recommend looking for material to read on soil health, soil micro biome, no till (not big ag is trying to take over this term), permaculture and regenerative agriculture.
The best first step forward would be for countries that allow feed lots and high concentration of cattle to forbid that, and require farms/ranches to limit cattle to a sustainable amount per land area (EU has already good rules on this). Second would be to stop collecting all the damn poo into rotting cesspits, and instead let your cows graze in fields and give them some kelp as a side.
Obviously this will increase food costs, and make meat more scarce but that’s the point. If we want to get out of this climate disaster we will have to bear higher costs for food, transportation, shelter, and heating.
I have seen a lot of people who are interested in trying a vegan/vegitarian lifestyle out with this idea lately. Let me tell you something that might change your mind on that front. You likely...
I don't have the willpower to be a vegetarian
I have seen a lot of people who are interested in trying a vegan/vegitarian lifestyle out with this idea lately. Let me tell you something that might change your mind on that front.
You likely don't actually like meat; you like the flavors that you associate with meat.
I know this sounds a bit crazy, but just bear with me for a while. How are the meat dishes you like prepared? You normally wouldn't dream of having them without at least a good amount of salt added to it, and the tastiest bits are the ones rich in fat. If you have the time, try this simple test; get the leanest cut of whatever animal you think you can't go without, like a trimmed chicken breast or filet mignon, and either eat it raw (if you can do it safely - and can stomach it), or eat it boiled/steamed (avoiding adding fats or smoke flavors, but ideally preserving the best texture). That is the real taste of meat. Or, if you think this test is unfair, make a chicken broth with no seasoning and completely remove all the fat.
So with that in mind, you now know that you can take those flavors and impart them into other foods, and that will likely satisfy your craving.
There is a caveat, though, in that there isn't really a good texture replacement for meat. There are some things that get close, and generally speaking they're fine if you accept the food for what it is, but if you are expecting it to be exactly like meat, you will just be disappointed. That's the major failure of most mock-meat products. But the trade off here is that you don't need a factory to make those meaty texture things; they all can be made fairly easily at home.
If you are concerned with the environmental impacts of animal product consumption but don't want to remove them entirely from your diet you can greatly lessen your impact while still having them....
If you are concerned with the environmental impacts of animal product consumption but don't want to remove them entirely from your diet you can greatly lessen your impact while still having them. There is a great wikipedia article on "flexitarianism" which has this diagram that showcases the land use benefits of reducing certain animal products while including others compared to veganism and the normal diet. I can't find this other diagram anymore but i remember seeing one that showed how being a pollotarian or a lacto-ovo vegetarian already substantially reduced emissions compared to a full omnivore but of course veganism was still the lowest.
"Tech often accelerates the fastest when big profits are to be made."
In the history of humanity, social benefits have outweighed the speed of technological advances created by investment for private gains. It seems this chicken-meat technology needs development to be an environmentally sustainable and socially advantageous enterprise.
The statement I highlighted in your comment seems to go into the reverse direction of causality. In fact, I would argue that profits "speed up" when technology is available. For example, all pharma industry is supported by the thousands of underfunded scientist publishing their discoveries. Those focused on financial profitability will use everything, from corrupting everybody to even fund technology and to adjudicate to themselves all basic science that led to the development of their product, to increase profitability.
I am sure that there are big technological changes that have occurred without profitability. The banality or having an alphabet, a Wikipedia, insulin, polio vaccine, are examples of big technological advances that were not focused on profitability but on other interests and values.
It is dangerous to assume that meat production will just be the consequence of a money making type of reasoning that will risk funding basic science to achieve its profitability goal. That will not happen without the huge subsidies that society, through governments, provides when big social benefits are to be made.
This is very fascinating. I am not well versed in this technology but can someone point me in the direction of energy differences? Clearly we're talking a large range here but I'm interested in...
This is very fascinating. I am not well versed in this technology but can someone point me in the direction of energy differences? Clearly we're talking a large range here but I'm interested in how economically viable lab grown chicken is.
Not coming with receipts but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy requirements were MUCH higher than conventional factory farming currently. At this stage lab-grown meat is more of a proof of...
Not coming with receipts but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy requirements were MUCH higher than conventional factory farming currently. At this stage lab-grown meat is more of a proof of concept than an economically viable product. Once you have that process though, it can be refined and made increasingly more efficient/accessible as needed.
I am a vegetarian myself, and while I would try lab grown meat, I think it's a common misconception that vegetarians or vegans are champing at the bit for ethical "real" meat. Personally, I'm more of a fan of plant-based products that just replace meat with an analog like making tacos with black beans or cauliflower in place of beef, or products like pea protein meat replacements made with simple ingredients (Beyond Meat)
Lab grown meat has a few other advantages noted elsewhere in the thread, like being able to be synthesized in areas where meat can benefit the local population's diet, but would be unrealistic to raise livestock locally.
Climate change has been mentioned, but the place I really see cultivated meat taking off is in space. The reality of raising cattle or chickens in space is that it's basically impossible or extremely expensive - but lab grown meat could be a renewable alternative in environments where space and resources are at an extreme premium, but energy might be easier to come by.
I think it's going to affect that large group of people that reduced their meat consumption because of ethical concern but aren't willing to give up meat. I know I'd pay quite a premium to be able...
I think it's going to affect that large group of people that reduced their meat consumption because of ethical concern but aren't willing to give up meat. I know I'd pay quite a premium to be able to enjoy eating meat with every meal again if I knew no animals suffered for it.
I eat a lot less meat mostly because I think eating meat causes human suffering. So for me I'd want to wait until the carbon cost of lab grown meat is well below farm grown meat.
I eat a lot less meat mostly because I think eating meat causes human suffering. So for me I'd want to wait until the carbon cost of lab grown meat is well below farm grown meat.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be interested in it if it increased my carbon footprint. I already eat meat occasionally, so my footprint is already high. But it could match it, I would happily pay...
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be interested in it if it increased my carbon footprint. I already eat meat occasionally, so my footprint is already high. But it could match it, I would happily pay more than I already do for meat.
do you mean animal suffering? like cattle and chickens and stuff? i don't see how eating meat causes human suffering, unless you're talking about like in an indirect way since eating meat worsens...
causes human suffering.
do you mean animal suffering? like cattle and chickens and stuff? i don't see how eating meat causes human suffering, unless you're talking about like in an indirect way since eating meat worsens climate change etc.
This is a good point. The rich and diverse diet we enjoy is inextricably tied to Earth's biosphere. It is logistically impossible to reproduce our natural diet in space: butter from cows, oils...
Climate change has been mentioned, but the place I really see cultivated meat taking off is in space. The reality of raising cattle or chickens in space is that it's basically impossible or extremely expensive - but lab grown meat could be a renewable alternative in environments where space and resources are at an extreme premium, but energy might be easier to come by.
This is a good point. The rich and diverse diet we enjoy is inextricably tied to Earth's biosphere. It is logistically impossible to reproduce our natural diet in space: butter from cows, oils from seeds and olives, pepper from peppercorn vines, vanilla from beans grown in tropical climates, fruits grown in orchards, and so on.
Living in space on algae smoothies and space salads would be unbearable for space-dwelling humans. Figuring out how to efficiently synthesize luxury foods will be critical for space QOL.
An aside: I find the (popular-on-Reddit) notion that the rich fund space exploration to escape Earth to be so self-evidently ridiculous with more than 2 seconds of thought. For the foreseeable future, life in space will be utmost dangerous, uncomfortable, and devoid of the most basic luxuries.
Your last point by is spot on. Escape a collapsing world into, what, an even more inhospitable environment? Even if the Earth is completely dead, it'd still be better to have an underground bunker...
Your last point by is spot on. Escape a collapsing world into, what, an even more inhospitable environment? Even if the Earth is completely dead, it'd still be better to have an underground bunker here than be in space. At least the gravity will be the same.
Lab grown meat isn't going to be much different from edible algae in concept. It's a clump of cells encouraged to replicate. It won't have good flavor nor texture and will be made palatable with...
Lab grown meat isn't going to be much different from edible algae in concept. It's a clump of cells encouraged to replicate. It won't have good flavor nor texture and will be made palatable with additives, no different than making a meal out of yeast. The biggest advantage of meat is it's dense protein content, so if the process is greatly improved it could be the best source of protein.
As to space faring populations, It's unrealistic to be able to grow plants for food. Way too much space and waste needed for any produce. Also incredibly messy with pollen and water vapor gumming up the air scrubbers. The long term astronauts will have to get by on nutrient mush for the duration. Farming on exoplanets is a possibility, but I doubt the stations and ships will ever have any sort of natural food processing.
I found that receipt you were looking for. TL;DR: Lab-grown meat produced by current methods produces between four and twenty-five times as much CO2 as conventional meat. Researchers hope to bring...
Not coming with receipts but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy requirements were MUCH higher than conventional factory farming currently
TL;DR: Lab-grown meat produced by current methods produces between four and twenty-five times as much CO2 as conventional meat. Researchers hope to bring that number down with future developments and it seems likely that they will be able to, but how much remains to be seen. Best case scenario is that lab-grown meat becomes significantly more carbon efficient than conventional meat, worst case scenario is that they can't find a way to scale production efficiently enough.
I am a vegetarian myself, and while I would try lab grown meat, I think it's a common misconception that vegetarians or vegans are champing at the bit for ethical "real" meat.
This is purely anecdotal on my part, so take it with as large a grain of salt as you consider necessary; almost all of the vegetarians I know (and I know quite a few), are thrilled at the prospect of lab-grown meat. Most people I know who have chosen to go vegetarian have done so not because of a culinary dislike of meat, but because of ethical concerns surrounding the killing of animals or the conditions of factory farms. I myself am a meat eater, but should the day come where lab-grown meat was equivalent in quality, price, and environmental impact to conventional meat then I would be happy to make the switch. I think it's worth considering how many current meat eaters might also be willing to make that switch, given that the above conditions were met.
I could have been more clear, but I was in no way implying there aren't vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters who do want this, and would eat it regularly if it were cost effective, ethical, and...
almost all of the vegetarians I know (and I know quite a few), are thrilled at the prospect of lab-grown meat.
I could have been more clear, but I was in no way implying there aren't vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters who do want this, and would eat it regularly if it were cost effective, ethical, and had less of a carbon footprint. The common misconception I'm referring to is that all vegans and vegetarians miss meat, and would eat it if it didn't have the environmental, ethical, or health realities that it does.
That's been my experience as well. I was veggie for ~20 years or so, and while I was (and am) enthusiastic about trying meat alternatives, the community as a whole is somewhat split on it. Many...
I think it's a common misconception that vegetarians or vegans are champing at the bit for ethical "real" meat.
That's been my experience as well. I was veggie for ~20 years or so, and while I was (and am) enthusiastic about trying meat alternatives, the community as a whole is somewhat split on it. Many vegetarians don't eat meat in large part because they don't like meat, not because of ethical elements, and even a veggie burger can yick them out. That being said, I'd love to try the stuff. All things being equal why wouldn't we choose the option that results in less suffering and pollution.
I love both tofu and meat, and veggie burgers still tend to yick me out. Vegetarian food tends to be best when it's not pretending to be meat. Not because meat is gross, but because vegetables...
I love both tofu and meat, and veggie burgers still tend to yick me out. Vegetarian food tends to be best when it's not pretending to be meat. Not because meat is gross, but because vegetables just aren't meat and don't act like meat no matter how you process them. The closest you can get without it getting really weird is tofu, which is kind of the answer to the question "what would happen if you made cheese out of beans instead of milk?" And even then, recipes that try to cheat tofu into seeming more like real meat than it is instead of just playing to the strengths of tofu tend to fall flat.
There's an uncanny valley effect you run into when trying to coax a plant based protein into tasting like an animal based one that just can't be overcome. In other words, I'd much rather be eating a chickpea curry with recognizable chickpeas in it than a burger patty made out of mashed up chickpeas.
YES. I hate fake anything... Margarine, splenda, cool whip, miracle whip.... and fake bacon or whatever. My gf is vegetarian (since she was 12, 20+ years ago) and doesn't miss meat... but we just...
Vegetarian food tends to be best when it's not pretending to be meat.
YES. I hate fake anything... Margarine, splenda, cool whip, miracle whip.... and fake bacon or whatever.
My gf is vegetarian (since she was 12, 20+ years ago) and doesn't miss meat... but we just mostly eat veggies, or falafel or even pizza. Don't need something that looks like steak but taste nothing like it and not sure exactly whats in it. (fillers/preservatives and something to make me really gassy)
Vegetarians might not, but those of us who eat meat but also don't like how the animals are treated are champing at the bit for ethical meat. Sorry, but none of those plant based fake meats come...
Vegetarians might not, but those of us who eat meat but also don't like how the animals are treated are champing at the bit for ethical meat. Sorry, but none of those plant based fake meats come anything close to meat. If I were to go vegetarian, that is now what I would be eating (I find them honestly kinda gross as in they taste and bad and the texture many times is off). I think I'd ahve to get very good at making Indian food cause that is the one cuisine I find where I don't miss the meat. To me the best vegetarian food is the ones that don't try to be meat but make a flavorful dish in their own right.
The consensus seems to be that the environmental impact is the same or worse with current technology. I love the idea and hope they can improve the technology....
The consensus seems to be that the environmental impact is the same or worse with current technology. I love the idea and hope they can improve the technology.
Wow, that surprises me. The beef industry is one of the most environmentally destructive on the planet, so being able to exceed that by "orders of magnitude" is almost an achievement.
Wow, that surprises me. The beef industry is one of the most environmentally destructive on the planet, so being able to exceed that by "orders of magnitude" is almost an achievement.
Lab grown meat requires amniotic tanks, the nutrient bath needs to be completely cycled regularly to remove waste and replenish nutrients, and to supply enough meat at scale will require an...
Lab grown meat requires amniotic tanks, the nutrient bath needs to be completely cycled regularly to remove waste and replenish nutrients, and to supply enough meat at scale will require an enormous number of these vats taking up more space than traditional livestock. These will have to be managed in pristine and ultra hygienic environments. Think surgical grade infrastructure and the costs and environmental impact associated with that. Perhaps in the future this will scale efficiently, but I expect it will be a long, long time before this can be a true meat replacement.
Thanks for the explanation; I had only the vaguest idea of how this whole process worked, and in light of this the astronomical environmental costs make a lot more sense.
Thanks for the explanation; I had only the vaguest idea of how this whole process worked, and in light of this the astronomical environmental costs make a lot more sense.
FWIW, I came across a linked study that indicates the environmental costs are actually significantly less here:https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es200130u I have not yet read this to validate the...
This made me curious, so I skimmed the more recent (UC Davis) study. Never been in academia, so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I could tell the more recent study asserted that the...
This made me curious, so I skimmed the more recent (UC Davis) study. Never been in academia, so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I could tell the more recent study asserted that the previous ones (like the one you linked) were inaccurate due to assumptions made about a technology that was still very early on in its development. Now that things have progressed, they can be a lot more specific, and the big difference comes from the purification needed; previous studies used bulk chemical manufacturing costs, but this one uses fine chemical production cost instead since the nutrients require a high level of refinement (Fine manufacturing is 20x more resource intensive than bulk).
Very helpful, thanks for the summary! Based on the popular reporting that I have seen, it did seem like the bulk of the cost and impact was related to the level of purity and hygiene required to...
Very helpful, thanks for the summary! Based on the popular reporting that I have seen, it did seem like the bulk of the cost and impact was related to the level of purity and hygiene required to sustain the growth of the meat. So you're finding track.
Yeah, as someone who had been hoping for lab grown meat for years, realizing it doesn't currently solve the environmental issues with the meat industry was really disappointing. There is no reason...
Yeah, as someone who had been hoping for lab grown meat for years, realizing it doesn't currently solve the environmental issues with the meat industry was really disappointing. There is no reason to believe that the technology cannot be improved. I just hope the money doesn't dry up.
If we want to get serious about space travel I believe lab grown meat will be a necessity. 3D printing/growing our own meat onboard ships and distant worlds seems like the only realistic way to me to provide food for environments where we cannot grow our own.
I don't see lab grown meat ever becoming a part of space travel. The problem is that meat is inefficient; rather than feeding nutrients to grow meat to then give to humans, it's probably always...
I don't see lab grown meat ever becoming a part of space travel. The problem is that meat is inefficient; rather than feeding nutrients to grow meat to then give to humans, it's probably always going to be more efficient to just give the nutrients directly to the human. My guess is the core of any long term space faring diet is going to be things that can reprocess human waste, and I'm dubious that meat could be grown off of that; it's too close to human.
That's a good point. Reading The Expanse probably just had me dreaming. Maybe it's more realistic for more settled life off our planet. I imagine you are probably right about it being more...
That's a good point. Reading The Expanse probably just had me dreaming. Maybe it's more realistic for more settled life off our planet. I imagine you are probably right about it being more efficient to give me a pill with all the vitamins and proteins I need to stay healthy out in space.
That all said, I don't think you can underestimate the value of being millions of KMs away from Earth and being able to have a delicious steak. You often hear astronauts talk about how hard it is to get good flavour in food up in the International Space Station. When we have a space station around Saturn I'm sure the people there would love a fresh steak.
Some novelty possibilities with lab meat are Raw meat - rare chicken here we go, you don’t have to worry about salmonella if there is no salmonella. Chickens grown in special conditions can be...
Some novelty possibilities with lab meat are
Raw meat - rare chicken here we go, you don’t have to worry about salmonella if there is no salmonella. Chickens grown in special conditions can be eaten raw but are expensive since the supply is low.
Exotic meat - dog meat, cat meat, panda meat, human meat
Unlimited foie gras, bluefin tuna, freshwater eels, or safe fugu seems a nice prospect. Oh, and flooding the chinese market with lab grown rhino horns while we're at it.
Exotic meat
Unlimited foie gras, bluefin tuna, freshwater eels, or safe fugu seems a nice prospect.
Oh, and flooding the chinese market with lab grown rhino horns while we're at it.
I just finished it last night and loved it. It's less tense than The Martian and, for me, was just a really fun ride. It took a turn I was not expecting and it stole my heart! I wish there was a...
I just finished it last night and loved it. It's less tense than The Martian and, for me, was just a really fun ride. It took a turn I was not expecting and it stole my heart! I wish there was a sequel. One of the few books that I feel oddly compelled to do some artwork for.
Having read these, plus the Red Mars series, now I'm casting about for my next reads - starting Leviathan Wakes tonight.
Think about how many factors affect the taste of meat. Fat content, connective tissue, the activity level of the animal, diet, whether the animal died angry, etc. Lab grown meat would be able to...
Think about how many factors affect the taste of meat. Fat content, connective tissue, the activity level of the animal, diet, whether the animal died angry, etc. Lab grown meat would be able to fine tune all of that.
Imagine seafood with the gamey taste of pheasant. Raw steak could have its connective tissue broken down into gelatin as if it was braised.
Cured meats that taste like they've aged for a hundred years. Beef more tender than veal.
Lunch meat is emulsified and reconstituted to remove connective tissue. Cut out the processing and grow perfect lunch meat.
My biggest issue with some solutions for lab-grown beef is the reliance upon Fetal Bovine Serum (FBS). It's essentially magic for things like virus testing, hormone/biochemical profiling, and...
My biggest issue with some solutions for lab-grown beef is the reliance upon Fetal Bovine Serum (FBS). It's essentially magic for things like virus testing, hormone/biochemical profiling, and creating tissue cultures but in a horrible sci-fi twist, the process in which it's harvested is about as nightmarish as it can get.
If a cow is found to be pregnant during evisceration (removal of the internal organs from the thorax and abdomen during the processing of the slaughtered cow) at the time of slaughter, the reproductive tract is removed from the carcass, and is dropped down a special stainless-steel chute leading to the calf-processing area, a room that is separated from the rest of the abattoir floor. The [usually still living] calf fetus is quickly removed from the uterus, and the umbilical cord is tied off. The fetus is cleaned of amniotic fluid, and is disinfected. A cardiac puncture is performed by inserting a needle between the ribs directly into the heart of the unanaesthetised fetus, and blood is extracted under vacuum through a tube into a sterile blood-collection bag. In the absence of a vacuum pump, fetal blood can be obtained by means of gravity or massage. In these cases, the blood-collection bag is placed below the fetus. Once the blood has been obtained, it is allowed to clot at low temperature, after which the clotted substance is separated from the serum by refrigerated centrifugation. The fetus is processed for animal feed and for the extraction of specific substances such as fats and proteins.
Parts [in brackets] are my additions from my previous research into the matter. Once a fetus is dead, the blood begins to coagulate within mere minutes so speed is of the essence to extract from the still-beating or recently-ceased fetal heart.
I know a few of the players in the lab beef market are working to eliminate their need of FBS but it's difficult to tell what the actual status is. When investors ask about their usage, they spin and dodge and pass the issue off into future dialog and that FBS is just a stepping stone towards a true cruelty-free future. Though as it stands, the secret ingredient they rely on currently is about as cruel as a thing can be.
If anyone more up to date on this stuff can chime in on the latest state of the art for beef cell cultures without FBS, I'd love to hear it!
Oh, that's... uh. That's not good. Thank you for sharing; I clicked because I was really curious, and I kinda regret clicking, buuuuuut I'm also glad to be aware of this.
Oh, that's... uh. That's not good.
Thank you for sharing; I clicked because I was really curious, and I kinda regret clicking, buuuuuut I'm also glad to be aware of this.
As a labrat, some of the mammalian cells I culture use chemically defined/serum-free media. This is really common for stem cell culture or in some biotechnology uses (CDM4PERMab is often used for...
As a labrat, some of the mammalian cells I culture use chemically defined/serum-free media. This is really common for stem cell culture or in some biotechnology uses (CDM4PERMab is often used for antibody production, for example).
A quick literature search resulted in me finding the following (open access) article describing a serum-free media suitable for culturing/expanding bovine cells: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03423-8
Thank you so much! Published in 2022 even, so things are really moving in the field. A lot of the language is over my head but it seems that this could be at least a move towards greatly reducing...
Thank you so much!
Published in 2022 even, so things are really moving in the field. A lot of the language is over my head but it seems that this could be at least a move towards greatly reducing the amount of FBS needed to generate beef cultures (up to 85% reduction even, which is pretty good).
I wasn't sure I was up to reading that but felt I had to be informed about FBS, since I'm interested in cruelty free lab meat. But that was.....highly unsettling. Question: are there people who...
I wasn't sure I was up to reading that but felt I had to be informed about FBS, since I'm interested in cruelty free lab meat. But that was.....highly unsettling.
Question: are there people who read this and think, well who cares, the big animal has already been slaughtered, and it's just some cells inside of the big one?
Yah, FBS is, unfortunately, almost more vital than plastics are in biotech. Mamilian cells need hormones and some other signaling chemicals to be 'convinced' that they are in a body, and should...
Yah, FBS is, unfortunately, almost more vital than plastics are in biotech. Mamilian cells need hormones and some other signaling chemicals to be 'convinced' that they are in a body, and should start growing rapidly.
This means that, until we can either synthesize an alternative, or develop cell cultures that dont need it (and even then we would still need it to develop new cell cultures), it will always be needed for a large number of bioproducts and bioproduct development, such as vaccines and gene therapies.
(not a labrat, just the spouse of one that uses FBS daily.)
I'm interested to see how this will progress as we dive into the age of this climate crisis. Some regions will become too hot to raise animals for protein, and so this option seems completely...
I'm interested to see how this will progress as we dive into the age of this climate crisis. Some regions will become too hot to raise animals for protein, and so this option seems completely reasonable considering that inevitability and the world population increase. I'm also interested to see how well vegan options will hold up against climate change and water rights.
The part we need to be really careful of is how the energy produced to create this is done. If it requires plenty of energy to create (say, more so than an actual chook) and that comes from a coal...
The part we need to be really careful of is how the energy produced to create this is done.
If it requires plenty of energy to create (say, more so than an actual chook) and that comes from a coal plant... we're in trouble.
It's bizarre to see this happening in my lifetime. Cool mind.
The nice part about energy is that it’s fungible. If it takes a lot of energy, put all the lab chicken plants in Arizona where there’s abundant solar energy during the day.
The nice part about energy is that it’s fungible. If it takes a lot of energy, put all the lab chicken plants in Arizona where there’s abundant solar energy during the day.
Sure, although it’s for cost as opposed to carbon emissions. It’s one of the reasons why all the new semiconductor fabs are in Arizona, despite the fact that those need a lot of water, which...
Sure, although it’s for cost as opposed to carbon emissions. It’s one of the reasons why all the new semiconductor fabs are in Arizona, despite the fact that those need a lot of water, which Arizona does not have. Cheap electricity during the day is nice for some industries.
The reports I've seen so far have all painted it as basically cost-prohibitive. This article puts the lowest price one researcher could get it down to at $17/pound, and that's before any markups...
The reports I've seen so far have all painted it as basically cost-prohibitive. This article puts the lowest price one researcher could get it down to at $17/pound, and that's before any markups placed on it by the distributors and stores that would actually be selling to the public.
TBF that's down from $80/lbs when the first cultured meat was debuted around 10 years ago. Now that they are getting to production scaling it will likely come down quite a bit.
TBF that's down from $80/lbs when the first cultured meat was debuted around 10 years ago. Now that they are getting to production scaling it will likely come down quite a bit.
ooh, that's cool! I couldn't bring myself to try a... I think cricket, but maybe other insects burger when I saw it for sale a while back, but I'd definitely be down to try this! And as long as...
ooh, that's cool! I couldn't bring myself to try a... I think cricket, but maybe other insects burger when I saw it for sale a while back, but I'd definitely be down to try this! And as long as it's not too crazy priced, switch my meat consumption to cultivated entirely!
The past two years, with all the new technologies and developments... it's been like living in the sort of sci-fi I was reading about in the 90s, it's really quite something!
I wonder what will happen with the societal attitude against eating meat when lab-grown meat becomes more readily available. Right now we have roughly three arguments against eating meat. It...
I wonder what will happen with the societal attitude against eating meat when lab-grown meat becomes more readily available.
Right now we have roughly three arguments against eating meat.
It supports an industrial complex where living beings are killed for their flesh.
Keeping said animals is bad for the environment.
Eating meat is bad for your health.
Discussions surrounding veganism often cycle between these main points, I'm curious to see where we'll stand in 10 years.
Long term, this will almost certainly be cheaper than meat from animals. Think about how much of the animal is wasted during the butchering process. Lab grown meat will require less energy, grow...
Long term, this will almost certainly be cheaper than meat from animals. Think about how much of the animal is wasted during the butchering process.
Lab grown meat will require less energy, grow faster, take up less space, and be easier to automate. Butchering animals is still mostly done by hand.
Hey if we don't gotta kill the animals anymore that's cool but a lot of the animals have been bred to require constant human care, so what do we do with them? Also we're still gonna have to deal...
Hey if we don't gotta kill the animals anymore that's cool but a lot of the animals have been bred to require constant human care, so what do we do with them?
Also we're still gonna have to deal with invasive species and overpopulation (due to use pushing out the natural dominant predators) like with deer. I think it'd be pretty difficult for a number of reasons for this to completely replace normal meat, but if this became the main and cheaper method, that sounds nice.
I'm assuming it would have the same taste and texture hopefully.
We'll kill the ones already alive for food, and stop breeding new ones. It's not like breeding animals for food is going to just stop all at once on the 4th of July. Nothing about this will mean...
We'll kill the ones already alive for food, and stop breeding new ones. It's not like breeding animals for food is going to just stop all at once on the 4th of July. Nothing about this will mean that meat from animals stops being a thing, just that there's another option.
I presume it will be similar to how horses are kept. We don't need horses like we used to, but there are still plenty of horse farms that focus on riding as a sport rather than a necessity. I...
I presume it will be similar to how horses are kept. We don't need horses like we used to, but there are still plenty of horse farms that focus on riding as a sport rather than a necessity. I expect that if lab grown meat is economically viable and is adopted at scale, small farms won't go away. People will still have backyard chickens and small dairy and cattle farms will probably still keep animals. They'll advertise their products as "natural" rather than the "synthetic" meat, dairy, or egg products generated by labs.
I really hope this continues to develop. Perfecting the process of growing consumable meat means processes that will contribute to growing replacement tissue for medical reasons. Tech often accelerates the fastest when big profits are to be made.
I'm excited for this because I despise the meat industry and their barbaric conditions, but meat itself is a great ingredient in food. I hadn't considered the medical applications, that's intriguing as well, to at least get a consistent baseline of tissue reproduction for future complex organ growth.
Same here.. I don't have the willpower to be a vegetarian but I dislike the meat industry and how it treats their animals as well as meat is not very environmental at all either.
I would love to have meat I could eat without feeling bad about the conditions the animals came from or the effects it has had on the environment to raise that meat.
Animal husbandry is not by default bad for the environment, it is at the scale and the way it is done in many countries. But we shouldn’t stop completely.
Agriculture is a big source of greenhouse gases and environmental damage. One big reason for that is the use of artificial fertilizers, and it generically being an open system.
Animals can play a big role in turning agriculture into more of a closed loop system, where the goal is to minimize external inputs.
This is a touchy topic to discuss online, it seems. Anytime it is brought up, it gets a lot of knee jerk reactions. It is important to see agricultural as a large symbiotic process, and not just individual bars of carbon emissions on a graph somewhere.
I recommend looking for material to read on soil health, soil micro biome, no till (not big ag is trying to take over this term), permaculture and regenerative agriculture.
The best first step forward would be for countries that allow feed lots and high concentration of cattle to forbid that, and require farms/ranches to limit cattle to a sustainable amount per land area (EU has already good rules on this). Second would be to stop collecting all the damn poo into rotting cesspits, and instead let your cows graze in fields and give them some kelp as a side.
Obviously this will increase food costs, and make meat more scarce but that’s the point. If we want to get out of this climate disaster we will have to bear higher costs for food, transportation, shelter, and heating.
Just FYI, in the EU antibiotics aren't allowed to be used preventatively like they are in the US. So the issue is not as large here.
I have seen a lot of people who are interested in trying a vegan/vegitarian lifestyle out with this idea lately. Let me tell you something that might change your mind on that front.
You likely don't actually like meat; you like the flavors that you associate with meat.
I know this sounds a bit crazy, but just bear with me for a while. How are the meat dishes you like prepared? You normally wouldn't dream of having them without at least a good amount of salt added to it, and the tastiest bits are the ones rich in fat. If you have the time, try this simple test; get the leanest cut of whatever animal you think you can't go without, like a trimmed chicken breast or filet mignon, and either eat it raw (if you can do it safely - and can stomach it), or eat it boiled/steamed (avoiding adding fats or smoke flavors, but ideally preserving the best texture). That is the real taste of meat. Or, if you think this test is unfair, make a chicken broth with no seasoning and completely remove all the fat.
So with that in mind, you now know that you can take those flavors and impart them into other foods, and that will likely satisfy your craving.
There is a caveat, though, in that there isn't really a good texture replacement for meat. There are some things that get close, and generally speaking they're fine if you accept the food for what it is, but if you are expecting it to be exactly like meat, you will just be disappointed. That's the major failure of most mock-meat products. But the trade off here is that you don't need a factory to make those meaty texture things; they all can be made fairly easily at home.
I hope this helps you on your journey.
If you are concerned with the environmental impacts of animal product consumption but don't want to remove them entirely from your diet you can greatly lessen your impact while still having them. There is a great wikipedia article on "flexitarianism" which has this diagram that showcases the land use benefits of reducing certain animal products while including others compared to veganism and the normal diet. I can't find this other diagram anymore but i remember seeing one that showed how being a pollotarian or a lacto-ovo vegetarian already substantially reduced emissions compared to a full omnivore but of course veganism was still the lowest.
This is very fascinating. I am not well versed in this technology but can someone point me in the direction of energy differences? Clearly we're talking a large range here but I'm interested in how economically viable lab grown chicken is.
Also, saying cultivated chicken is odd.
Not coming with receipts but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy requirements were MUCH higher than conventional factory farming currently. At this stage lab-grown meat is more of a proof of concept than an economically viable product. Once you have that process though, it can be refined and made increasingly more efficient/accessible as needed.
I am a vegetarian myself, and while I would try lab grown meat, I think it's a common misconception that vegetarians or vegans are champing at the bit for ethical "real" meat. Personally, I'm more of a fan of plant-based products that just replace meat with an analog like making tacos with black beans or cauliflower in place of beef, or products like pea protein meat replacements made with simple ingredients (Beyond Meat)
Lab grown meat has a few other advantages noted elsewhere in the thread, like being able to be synthesized in areas where meat can benefit the local population's diet, but would be unrealistic to raise livestock locally.
Climate change has been mentioned, but the place I really see cultivated meat taking off is in space. The reality of raising cattle or chickens in space is that it's basically impossible or extremely expensive - but lab grown meat could be a renewable alternative in environments where space and resources are at an extreme premium, but energy might be easier to come by.
I think it's going to affect that large group of people that reduced their meat consumption because of ethical concern but aren't willing to give up meat. I know I'd pay quite a premium to be able to enjoy eating meat with every meal again if I knew no animals suffered for it.
I eat a lot less meat mostly because I think eating meat causes human suffering. So for me I'd want to wait until the carbon cost of lab grown meat is well below farm grown meat.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be interested in it if it increased my carbon footprint. I already eat meat occasionally, so my footprint is already high. But it could match it, I would happily pay more than I already do for meat.
do you mean animal suffering? like cattle and chickens and stuff? i don't see how eating meat causes human suffering, unless you're talking about like in an indirect way since eating meat worsens climate change etc.
Climate change, water scarcity, antibiotics overuse. Probably more than just those reasons.
This is a good point. The rich and diverse diet we enjoy is inextricably tied to Earth's biosphere. It is logistically impossible to reproduce our natural diet in space: butter from cows, oils from seeds and olives, pepper from peppercorn vines, vanilla from beans grown in tropical climates, fruits grown in orchards, and so on.
Living in space on algae smoothies and space salads would be unbearable for space-dwelling humans. Figuring out how to efficiently synthesize luxury foods will be critical for space QOL.
An aside: I find the (popular-on-Reddit) notion that the rich fund space exploration to escape Earth to be so self-evidently ridiculous with more than 2 seconds of thought. For the foreseeable future, life in space will be utmost dangerous, uncomfortable, and devoid of the most basic luxuries.
Your last point by is spot on. Escape a collapsing world into, what, an even more inhospitable environment? Even if the Earth is completely dead, it'd still be better to have an underground bunker here than be in space. At least the gravity will be the same.
Lab grown meat isn't going to be much different from edible algae in concept. It's a clump of cells encouraged to replicate. It won't have good flavor nor texture and will be made palatable with additives, no different than making a meal out of yeast. The biggest advantage of meat is it's dense protein content, so if the process is greatly improved it could be the best source of protein.
As to space faring populations, It's unrealistic to be able to grow plants for food. Way too much space and waste needed for any produce. Also incredibly messy with pollen and water vapor gumming up the air scrubbers. The long term astronauts will have to get by on nutrient mush for the duration. Farming on exoplanets is a possibility, but I doubt the stations and ships will ever have any sort of natural food processing.
I found that receipt you were looking for.
TL;DR: Lab-grown meat produced by current methods produces between four and twenty-five times as much CO2 as conventional meat. Researchers hope to bring that number down with future developments and it seems likely that they will be able to, but how much remains to be seen. Best case scenario is that lab-grown meat becomes significantly more carbon efficient than conventional meat, worst case scenario is that they can't find a way to scale production efficiently enough.
This is purely anecdotal on my part, so take it with as large a grain of salt as you consider necessary; almost all of the vegetarians I know (and I know quite a few), are thrilled at the prospect of lab-grown meat. Most people I know who have chosen to go vegetarian have done so not because of a culinary dislike of meat, but because of ethical concerns surrounding the killing of animals or the conditions of factory farms. I myself am a meat eater, but should the day come where lab-grown meat was equivalent in quality, price, and environmental impact to conventional meat then I would be happy to make the switch. I think it's worth considering how many current meat eaters might also be willing to make that switch, given that the above conditions were met.
I could have been more clear, but I was in no way implying there aren't vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters who do want this, and would eat it regularly if it were cost effective, ethical, and had less of a carbon footprint. The common misconception I'm referring to is that all vegans and vegetarians miss meat, and would eat it if it didn't have the environmental, ethical, or health realities that it does.
That's been my experience as well. I was veggie for ~20 years or so, and while I was (and am) enthusiastic about trying meat alternatives, the community as a whole is somewhat split on it. Many vegetarians don't eat meat in large part because they don't like meat, not because of ethical elements, and even a veggie burger can yick them out. That being said, I'd love to try the stuff. All things being equal why wouldn't we choose the option that results in less suffering and pollution.
I love both tofu and meat, and veggie burgers still tend to yick me out. Vegetarian food tends to be best when it's not pretending to be meat. Not because meat is gross, but because vegetables just aren't meat and don't act like meat no matter how you process them. The closest you can get without it getting really weird is tofu, which is kind of the answer to the question "what would happen if you made cheese out of beans instead of milk?" And even then, recipes that try to cheat tofu into seeming more like real meat than it is instead of just playing to the strengths of tofu tend to fall flat.
There's an uncanny valley effect you run into when trying to coax a plant based protein into tasting like an animal based one that just can't be overcome. In other words, I'd much rather be eating a chickpea curry with recognizable chickpeas in it than a burger patty made out of mashed up chickpeas.
YES. I hate fake anything... Margarine, splenda, cool whip, miracle whip.... and fake bacon or whatever.
My gf is vegetarian (since she was 12, 20+ years ago) and doesn't miss meat... but we just mostly eat veggies, or falafel or even pizza. Don't need something that looks like steak but taste nothing like it and not sure exactly whats in it. (fillers/preservatives and something to make me really gassy)
Vegetarians might not, but those of us who eat meat but also don't like how the animals are treated are champing at the bit for ethical meat. Sorry, but none of those plant based fake meats come anything close to meat. If I were to go vegetarian, that is now what I would be eating (I find them honestly kinda gross as in they taste and bad and the texture many times is off). I think I'd ahve to get very good at making Indian food cause that is the one cuisine I find where I don't miss the meat. To me the best vegetarian food is the ones that don't try to be meat but make a flavorful dish in their own right.
The consensus seems to be that the environmental impact is the same or worse with current technology. I love the idea and hope they can improve the technology.
https://www.ucdavis.edu/food/news/lab-grown-meat-carbon-footprint-worse-beef
Wow, that surprises me. The beef industry is one of the most environmentally destructive on the planet, so being able to exceed that by "orders of magnitude" is almost an achievement.
Lab grown meat requires amniotic tanks, the nutrient bath needs to be completely cycled regularly to remove waste and replenish nutrients, and to supply enough meat at scale will require an enormous number of these vats taking up more space than traditional livestock. These will have to be managed in pristine and ultra hygienic environments. Think surgical grade infrastructure and the costs and environmental impact associated with that. Perhaps in the future this will scale efficiently, but I expect it will be a long, long time before this can be a true meat replacement.
Thanks for the explanation; I had only the vaguest idea of how this whole process worked, and in light of this the astronomical environmental costs make a lot more sense.
FWIW, I came across a linked study that indicates the environmental costs are actually significantly less here:https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es200130u
I have not yet read this to validate the relevance of the study or its conclusions. But I did want to know that there are conflicting studies.
This made me curious, so I skimmed the more recent (UC Davis) study. Never been in academia, so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I could tell the more recent study asserted that the previous ones (like the one you linked) were inaccurate due to assumptions made about a technology that was still very early on in its development. Now that things have progressed, they can be a lot more specific, and the big difference comes from the purification needed; previous studies used bulk chemical manufacturing costs, but this one uses fine chemical production cost instead since the nutrients require a high level of refinement (Fine manufacturing is 20x more resource intensive than bulk).
Very helpful, thanks for the summary! Based on the popular reporting that I have seen, it did seem like the bulk of the cost and impact was related to the level of purity and hygiene required to sustain the growth of the meat. So you're finding track.
Yeah, as someone who had been hoping for lab grown meat for years, realizing it doesn't currently solve the environmental issues with the meat industry was really disappointing. There is no reason to believe that the technology cannot be improved. I just hope the money doesn't dry up.
If we want to get serious about space travel I believe lab grown meat will be a necessity. 3D printing/growing our own meat onboard ships and distant worlds seems like the only realistic way to me to provide food for environments where we cannot grow our own.
I don't see lab grown meat ever becoming a part of space travel. The problem is that meat is inefficient; rather than feeding nutrients to grow meat to then give to humans, it's probably always going to be more efficient to just give the nutrients directly to the human. My guess is the core of any long term space faring diet is going to be things that can reprocess human waste, and I'm dubious that meat could be grown off of that; it's too close to human.
That's a good point. Reading The Expanse probably just had me dreaming. Maybe it's more realistic for more settled life off our planet. I imagine you are probably right about it being more efficient to give me a pill with all the vitamins and proteins I need to stay healthy out in space.
That all said, I don't think you can underestimate the value of being millions of KMs away from Earth and being able to have a delicious steak. You often hear astronauts talk about how hard it is to get good flavour in food up in the International Space Station. When we have a space station around Saturn I'm sure the people there would love a fresh steak.
Some novelty possibilities with lab meat are
Raw meat - rare chicken here we go, you don’t have to worry about salmonella if there is no salmonella. Chickens grown in special conditions can be eaten raw but are expensive since the supply is low.
Exotic meat - dog meat, cat meat, panda meat, human meat
Unlimited foie gras, bluefin tuna, freshwater eels, or safe fugu seems a nice prospect.
Oh, and flooding the chinese market with lab grown rhino horns while we're at it.
love this idea. imagine having burger-sized scallops too.
Coming soon "You are what you eat" service where you can send in a biopsy of your own cells, the ultimate in vegan friendly meat.
That sounds incredibly cool and somewhat terrifying. Not sure I'd be willing to try that but I'm sure at least some people would.
This was the weirdest part of the Hail Mary Project book…
Ah I haven't read that book yet, but I'm not surprised Andy Weir would explore something like this.
His writing style is not quite my thing (a bit too quippy for my taste) but I'd recommend it.
I just finished it last night and loved it. It's less tense than The Martian and, for me, was just a really fun ride. It took a turn I was not expecting and it stole my heart! I wish there was a sequel. One of the few books that I feel oddly compelled to do some artwork for.
Having read these, plus the Red Mars series, now I'm casting about for my next reads - starting Leviathan Wakes tonight.
Not just nails?
Toenails?
The possibilities are so tasty..
Think about how many factors affect the taste of meat. Fat content, connective tissue, the activity level of the animal, diet, whether the animal died angry, etc. Lab grown meat would be able to fine tune all of that.
Imagine seafood with the gamey taste of pheasant. Raw steak could have its connective tissue broken down into gelatin as if it was braised.
Cured meats that taste like they've aged for a hundred years. Beef more tender than veal.
Lunch meat is emulsified and reconstituted to remove connective tissue. Cut out the processing and grow perfect lunch meat.
My biggest issue with some solutions for lab-grown beef is the reliance upon Fetal Bovine Serum (FBS). It's essentially magic for things like virus testing, hormone/biochemical profiling, and creating tissue cultures but in a horrible sci-fi twist, the process in which it's harvested is about as nightmarish as it can get.
The following text description taken from the paper "The Use of Fetal Bovine Serum: Ethical or Scientific
Problem?" published in the Journal ALTA is nightmare fuel so only click if you're really curious:
Parts [in brackets] are my additions from my previous research into the matter. Once a fetus is dead, the blood begins to coagulate within mere minutes so speed is of the essence to extract from the still-beating or recently-ceased fetal heart.
I know a few of the players in the lab beef market are working to eliminate their need of FBS but it's difficult to tell what the actual status is. When investors ask about their usage, they spin and dodge and pass the issue off into future dialog and that FBS is just a stepping stone towards a true cruelty-free future. Though as it stands, the secret ingredient they rely on currently is about as cruel as a thing can be.
If anyone more up to date on this stuff can chime in on the latest state of the art for beef cell cultures without FBS, I'd love to hear it!
Oh, that's... uh. That's not good.
Thank you for sharing; I clicked because I was really curious, and I kinda regret clicking, buuuuuut I'm also glad to be aware of this.
As a labrat, some of the mammalian cells I culture use chemically defined/serum-free media. This is really common for stem cell culture or in some biotechnology uses (CDM4PERMab is often used for antibody production, for example).
A quick literature search resulted in me finding the following (open access) article describing a serum-free media suitable for culturing/expanding bovine cells: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03423-8
Thank you so much!
Published in 2022 even, so things are really moving in the field. A lot of the language is over my head but it seems that this could be at least a move towards greatly reducing the amount of FBS needed to generate beef cultures (up to 85% reduction even, which is pretty good).
this literally sounds like satanic panic era ant-abortion propaganda, what the fuck
I wasn't sure I was up to reading that but felt I had to be informed about FBS, since I'm interested in cruelty free lab meat. But that was.....highly unsettling.
Question: are there people who read this and think, well who cares, the big animal has already been slaughtered, and it's just some cells inside of the big one?
Yah, FBS is, unfortunately, almost more vital than plastics are in biotech. Mamilian cells need hormones and some other signaling chemicals to be 'convinced' that they are in a body, and should start growing rapidly.
This means that, until we can either synthesize an alternative, or develop cell cultures that dont need it (and even then we would still need it to develop new cell cultures), it will always be needed for a large number of bioproducts and bioproduct development, such as vaccines and gene therapies.
(not a labrat, just the spouse of one that uses FBS daily.)
I'm interested to see how this will progress as we dive into the age of this climate crisis. Some regions will become too hot to raise animals for protein, and so this option seems completely reasonable considering that inevitability and the world population increase. I'm also interested to see how well vegan options will hold up against climate change and water rights.
The part we need to be really careful of is how the energy produced to create this is done.
If it requires plenty of energy to create (say, more so than an actual chook) and that comes from a coal plant... we're in trouble.
It's bizarre to see this happening in my lifetime. Cool mind.
(What is a chook?)
It means chicken in Australian.
A chicken. Apologies.
The nice part about energy is that it’s fungible. If it takes a lot of energy, put all the lab chicken plants in Arizona where there’s abundant solar energy during the day.
Is that a thing, where businesses with large power consumption have moved to Arizona to save carbon emissions?
Sure, although it’s for cost as opposed to carbon emissions. It’s one of the reasons why all the new semiconductor fabs are in Arizona, despite the fact that those need a lot of water, which Arizona does not have. Cheap electricity during the day is nice for some industries.
Any idea how much would it cost and, if there was competition, how fast should price move down?
The reports I've seen so far have all painted it as basically cost-prohibitive. This article puts the lowest price one researcher could get it down to at $17/pound, and that's before any markups placed on it by the distributors and stores that would actually be selling to the public.
TBF that's down from $80/lbs when the first cultured meat was debuted around 10 years ago. Now that they are getting to production scaling it will likely come down quite a bit.
ooh, that's cool! I couldn't bring myself to try a... I think cricket, but maybe other insects burger when I saw it for sale a while back, but I'd definitely be down to try this! And as long as it's not too crazy priced, switch my meat consumption to cultivated entirely!
The past two years, with all the new technologies and developments... it's been like living in the sort of sci-fi I was reading about in the 90s, it's really quite something!
I hope this takes off. I would love there to be an affordable and sustainable meat that isn't insect based.
I wonder what will happen with the societal attitude against eating meat when lab-grown meat becomes more readily available.
Right now we have roughly three arguments against eating meat.
Discussions surrounding veganism often cycle between these main points, I'm curious to see where we'll stand in 10 years.
Long term, this will almost certainly be cheaper than meat from animals. Think about how much of the animal is wasted during the butchering process.
Lab grown meat will require less energy, grow faster, take up less space, and be easier to automate. Butchering animals is still mostly done by hand.
Hey if we don't gotta kill the animals anymore that's cool but a lot of the animals have been bred to require constant human care, so what do we do with them?
Also we're still gonna have to deal with invasive species and overpopulation (due to use pushing out the natural dominant predators) like with deer. I think it'd be pretty difficult for a number of reasons for this to completely replace normal meat, but if this became the main and cheaper method, that sounds nice.
I'm assuming it would have the same taste and texture hopefully.
We'll kill the ones already alive for food, and stop breeding new ones. It's not like breeding animals for food is going to just stop all at once on the 4th of July. Nothing about this will mean that meat from animals stops being a thing, just that there's another option.
I presume it will be similar to how horses are kept. We don't need horses like we used to, but there are still plenty of horse farms that focus on riding as a sport rather than a necessity. I expect that if lab grown meat is economically viable and is adopted at scale, small farms won't go away. People will still have backyard chickens and small dairy and cattle farms will probably still keep animals. They'll advertise their products as "natural" rather than the "synthetic" meat, dairy, or egg products generated by labs.