I found this quite fascinating. According to the article, although many people (myself included) may have strong and perfectly reasonable ideas of why they invert or don't invert their controls,...
I found this quite fascinating. According to the article, although many people (myself included) may have strong and perfectly reasonable ideas of why they invert or don't invert their controls, it turns out that they may be wrong. From the article:
In short, gamers think they are an inverter or a non-inverter because of how they were first exposed to game controls. Someone who played a lot of flight sims in the 1980s may have unconsciously taught themselves to invert and now they consider that their innate preference; alternatively a gamer who grew up in the 2000s, when non-inverted controls became prevalent may think they are naturally a non-inverter. However, cognitive tests suggest otherwise. It’s much more likely that you invert or don’t invert due to how your brain perceives objects in 3D space.
The article goes into more detail about what they specifically mean by this and this link should take you to the research paper itself.
I personally switch between the two control types depending on the game. But by default, I don't usually invert my controls. The article also talks a little about left-handedness and right-handedness. I have always done some things with my left hand that I as a predominantly right-handed person should in theory use my right hand for. I wash dishes like a left-handed person. I deal cards like a left-handed person. I prefer to use a computer mouse/trackball with my left hand. I feel I'd be a better golfer if I played like a lefty, but let's face it, a blind chimp with his arms tied would play better golf than I do. Anyway, in addition to my controller preferences, I now wonder if my occasional left-handed tendencies are learnt behaviour like I always thought, or the result of something inherent in my cognitive system.
I never once thought about it this way, and instead always assumed it had something to do with this: Actually, I always thought about it in terms of skateboarding. I have always ridden "goofy"...
In short, gamers think they are an inverter or a non-inverter because of
I never once thought about it this way, and instead always assumed it had something to do with this:
It’s much more likely that you invert or don’t invert due to how your brain perceives objects in 3D space.
Actually, I always thought about it in terms of skateboarding. I have always ridden "goofy" (right foot forward) and growing up I always inverted my controls. I don't know that there is a correlation, but that was at least consistent in my group of friends (the exception being a friend who rode skateboards "mongo," which is a goofy/regular hybrid in a way).
I have barely played video games at all for the past 20 years, but recently when playing old Zelda games I realized that I could just accept the controls set either way, even if one way feels less intuitive than the other.
I now wonder if my occasional left-handed tendencies are learnt behaviour like I always thought, or the result of something inherent in my cognitive system
I am also curious! I too favor my left hand/foot for certain things even though I am right-handed: talking on the phone, shoulder bag strap placement, carrying babies, etc. Kind of a weird sample of things to mention, but anyway, I am intrigued by the possibility that this is all just a force of habit.
I always thought it was due to my visual-spacial interpretation of the events on screen: am I thinking about myself as the avatar, or am I thinking about myself as something inhabiting the avatar...
I always thought it was due to my visual-spacial interpretation of the events on screen: am I thinking about myself as the avatar, or am I thinking about myself as something inhabiting the avatar and controlling it. Trying to phrase that more plainly: am I a person flying a plane, or am I the plane?
To mess up your sample a bit, I rode goofy back when I skated and I rarely invert in video games - it only feels right in certain circumstances, like flight controls.
To mess up your sample a bit, I rode goofy back when I skated and I rarely invert in video games - it only feels right in certain circumstances, like flight controls.
I'm pretty sure that whether you invert or not has nothing to do with left or right handedness, and it was just an off the cuff example to say that people may not know if they're using the type of...
I'm pretty sure that whether you invert or not has nothing to do with left or right handedness, and it was just an off the cuff example to say that people may not know if they're using the type of controls that best suits them until they try it out both ways. The research article doesn't seem to mention handedness as a factor in invertedness preference, other than that they recorded it.
Edit: my crtl-f failed me. It does have handedness in the results, and it's not a strong predictor of inversion preference
I've also always been goofy foot, and have wondered if there was some inherent left-ism somewhere inside (I'm right handed in everything else, though my sister kicks with her left foot. The rest...
I've also always been goofy foot, and have wondered if there was some inherent left-ism somewhere inside (I'm right handed in everything else, though my sister kicks with her left foot. The rest of us four siblings are all right-everything). But I also invert my y-axis when using a controller for both FPS and flying. (There is one exception, but I cannot think of what it is at the moment. And now this will likely bother me haha.) This does not apply to playing on a keyboard, interestingly enough.
I do insist on playing ESDF instead of WASD though... :D
That's a very interesting observation - I am also somewhat ambidextrous (I eat with my left hand usually, wristwatch on right hand, some sports with left hand, etc) but I am such an inverted gamer...
That's a very interesting observation - I am also somewhat ambidextrous (I eat with my left hand usually, wristwatch on right hand, some sports with left hand, etc) but I am such an inverted gamer to the point I won't play a game if it's not available in inverted (thankfully it's usually doable via emulation/remapping these days). Many panicky moments switching Halo 3 to inverted when playing on a default profile...
I remember at one point watching some shooter at a relatives house and was given a controller to play multiplayer with the rest. I got about three steps in, couldn't figure out how to switch to inverted, fell off a cliff because I kept pointing the camera up, and very quickly gave up. I just could not comprehend doing it any other way.
I always felt it was more a spatial awareness thing as tilting the camera on a non-inverted setup triggered a near visceral feeling inside my brain. I also have lots of other various sensory issues so I figured the two went hand in hand lol. I'm also very stubborn so that could be a factor too haha
As an aside, you and @sparkle may want to look up "cross-dominance" a.k.a., "mixed handedness". Rather than ambidextrous, I believe that's the correct term for people like us who preferentially...
As an aside, you and @sparkle may want to look up "cross-dominance" a.k.a., "mixed handedness". Rather than ambidextrous, I believe that's the correct term for people like us who preferentially use different hands depending on the tasks.
(I'm like you but reversed - technically a lefty, but I use my right for a lot of things. I've noticed that I tend to go left hand for fine motor and right hand for power, with a few exceptions like mousing right-handed.)
I’m right handed, but if I’m riding a bicycle and have to take a hand off the handlebars, I take my right hand off and leave my left hand on. For some reason, I’m more stable that way than if I...
I’m right handed, but if I’m riding a bicycle and have to take a hand off the handlebars, I take my right hand off and leave my left hand on. For some reason, I’m more stable that way than if I leave my right hand on the handlebars.
Interesting anecdotes! I do this too, but never paid much attention to it. I remember a few times that I'd start to a new game and flip flop between the two, because whatever I'm on feels like the...
Interesting anecdotes!
I personally switch between the two control types depending on the game.
I do this too, but never paid much attention to it. I remember a few times that I'd start to a new game and flip flop between the two, because whatever I'm on feels like the wrong one.
The article also talks a little about left-handedness and right-handedness. I have always done some things with my left hand that I as a predominantly right-handed person should in theory use my right hand for.
I'm like this too. I'm left handed for writing and other key things, but throw with my right hand and do a lot of other things with my right hand. The theory I've been running with for years, entirely of my own concoction, is that it's an interaction between dominant hand and dominant eye.
I wonder if there's a relationship between people with eye/hand sameness and people who invert controls.
Everytime I think about this question I seem to forget what my preference is. But I never ever think about this whilst playing a game. But if given the option, it really takes me a while to...
Everytime I think about this question I seem to forget what my preference is. But I never ever think about this whilst playing a game. But if given the option, it really takes me a while to realize what's off if I pick the wrong one.
The conclusion of the article isn't too far off of how I approach the question to begin with. If the 3rd person camera is thought of as pivoting around the subject, moving the joystick downwards, causing the character to look up, makes total sense. However, if thought of as controlling the characters head, the opposite makes just as much sense.
This image of a joystick attached to a head is how I've always seen it. I tend to play Y-inverted in almost every game but there are exceptions. The linked image would also imply X-axis inversion...
The linked image would also imply X-axis inversion but I loathe playing with that setting. People often speculate it's because of flight sims but I've never really played flight sims much. Y-axis inversion just feels better most of the time.
This "hand on head" version works better for Y only inversion. It's like you have your hand/thumb on their head and move the joystick (or mouse) accordingly. So forward looks down, back looks up,...
This "hand on head" version works better for Y only inversion. It's like you have your hand/thumb on their head and move the joystick (or mouse) accordingly. So forward looks down, back looks up, left goes left, right goes right.
Thats because the picture is wrong (for you). You are not holding joystick. You are using reins. Pull left - go left, pull right - go right, pull both, horse rises. Much like your muscles.
Thats because the picture is wrong (for you).
You are not holding joystick. You are using reins. Pull left - go left, pull right - go right, pull both, horse rises.
...i invert based upon the stick representing my spine, tilting my center of gravity to move or bank as does the natural movement of a human body or vehicle...
...i invert based upon the stick representing my spine, tilting my center of gravity to move or bank as does the natural movement of a human body or vehicle...
For me the difference is between piloting a vehicle versus controlling a character. Vehicles I tend to invert, while characters I don't (regardless of whether they're through first or third person...
For me the difference is between piloting a vehicle versus controlling a character. Vehicles I tend to invert, while characters I don't (regardless of whether they're through first or third person cameras). That extends to controlling both at the same time--for example in games where one stick controls the vehicle while the other lets you look around the interior of the cockpit, my preference is the vehicle one be inverted but the character one be non-inverted. My overall tendency is probably non-inversion, because it's much easier for me to adapt to non-inverted vehicle controls than it is to inverted character controls.
When I was using a Mac laptop for work I was driven absolutely nuts by this. Or more specifically that I couldn't find any way to set the scroll behavior by input device type. On the touch pad it...
When I was using a Mac laptop for work I was driven absolutely nuts by this. Or more specifically that I couldn't find any way to set the scroll behavior by input device type. On the touch pad it made sense that it behaved like a touch screen in that it dragging down scrolled up. My issue was that if I plugged in a mouse and was using the scroll wheel it then felt completely unnatural.
MacOS natively has one value for all input devices. Which is insane and stupid. The rest of us end up with BetterTouchTool to solve the problem completely.
MacOS natively has one value for all input devices. Which is insane and stupid.
The rest of us end up with BetterTouchTool to solve the problem completely.
Fortunately, I usually use a ball mouse, so the scrolling being clockwise or anticlockwise feels completely arbitrary either way. I totally agree it's a missed feature to toggle the setting for...
Fortunately, I usually use a ball mouse, so the scrolling being clockwise or anticlockwise feels completely arbitrary either way. I totally agree it's a missed feature to toggle the setting for different input methods.
It reminds me enough of other physical systems where you push something around in a disconnected viewpoint, like aligning a page on a projector or moving a slide in a microscope, that it felt...
It reminds me enough of other physical systems where you push something around in a disconnected viewpoint, like aligning a page on a projector or moving a slide in a microscope, that it felt intuitive enough for me. I may have had issue if it was further physically disconnected, but on a laptop in particular it behaves the same as if you imagine there's a big long sheet of paper inside the whole laptop (stretching under both the screen and keyboard) but you only have a small area you can use to push it around. My guess is that it would've felt way weirder if I just plugged a touchpad into a desktop though.
I have it so swiping down the touchpad scrolls the page down, is that inverted nowadays? I think macos had that as the default back in the day but they switched it at some point.. But I’m still...
I have it so swiping down the touchpad scrolls the page down, is that inverted nowadays? I think macos had that as the default back in the day but they switched it at some point.. But I’m still used to that. Most of the time I’m scrolling down anyway, and the motion is nicer.
It's how everyone naturally tilts their head. You pull back on your head to look up, and you push forward on your head to look down, simple. That is why I invert my controls.
It's how everyone naturally tilts their head. You pull back on your head to look up, and you push forward on your head to look down, simple. That is why I invert my controls.
Aha--you're right! I think that's finally the explanation for why it feels more natural to me. The "handle on the back of the head" image was close, but this is perfect.
Aha--you're right! I think that's finally the explanation for why it feels more natural to me. The "handle on the back of the head" image was close, but this is perfect.
The first PC games I ever played had inverted controls, Descent and Duke Nukem 3D. I could only play games from that point on inverted no matter what. That is until a year ago my brain for some...
The first PC games I ever played had inverted controls, Descent and Duke Nukem 3D. I could only play games from that point on inverted no matter what. That is until a year ago my brain for some reason switched over and am now forced to use standard mouse controls from that point on. It was a weird sensation when one day inverted looking felt just as weird as default controls used to. No idea what happened.
You are used to cursor being referenced to a plane in front of you. Its easier to slide along that plane and keep going full sphere. Like an extension of strategy games edge scroll to 3D. Joystick...
You are used to cursor being referenced to a plane in front of you. Its easier to slide along that plane and keep going full sphere. Like an extension of strategy games edge scroll to 3D.
Now I’d be interested to see if there’s a correlation with ADHD or not. I should also probably try to play “inverted”…I tend to be much worse at 3D mental manipulation than my wife (who has ADHD...
They had to mentally rotate random shapes, take on the perspective of an ‘avatar’ object in a picture, determine which way something was tilted in differently tilted backgrounds, and overcome the typical ‘Simon effect’ where it’s harder to respond when a target is on the opposite v the same side of the screen as the response button
…
It turns out the most predictive out of all the factors we measured was how quickly gamers could mentally rotate things and overcome the Simon effect. The faster they were, the less likely they were to invert.
Now I’d be interested to see if there’s a correlation with ADHD or not. I should also probably try to play “inverted”…I tend to be much worse at 3D mental manipulation than my wife (who has ADHD and claims 3D-brain is her ADHD superpower).
This is funny to me! I'd be interested in seeing if there's any correlation as well. For another anecdotal reference point: I have diagnosed ADHD(PI) and I have very good perceptual reasoning. It...
This is funny to me! I'd be interested in seeing if there's any correlation as well. For another anecdotal reference point: I have diagnosed ADHD(PI) and I have very good perceptual reasoning. It was even noted on my diagnosis. My wife is also diagnosed ADHD, but she struggles with perceptual reasoning. To the point where she gets frustrated when I ask her to try to picture something fitting somewhere.
Although ADHD isn't specifically one of the factors in the paper, it seems like they did ask some questions in the survey that are similar to questions on ADHD questionnaires. This was represented...
Although ADHD isn't specifically one of the factors in the paper, it seems like they did ask some questions in the survey that are similar to questions on ADHD questionnaires. This was represented by the "ITQFocus" item, which didn't predict invertedness preference.
Some question examples out of about 30 along similar lines:
Do you ever get extremely involved in projects that are assigned to you by your boss or your instructor, to the exclusion of other tasks?
How easily can you switch your attention from the task in which you are currently involved to a new task?
My partner is not a gamer but also prefers inverted controls if she plays something like powerwash simulator. But the real trippy part is that she also inverts the direction her computer scrolls....
My partner is not a gamer but also prefers inverted controls if she plays something like powerwash simulator.
But the real trippy part is that she also inverts the direction her computer scrolls. But she swipes the same direction as the rest of us.... which is technically inverted right? Does anyone invert their swipe direction on their phone?
I just wish we could remove the stigma of using inverted. I don't see anyone in this thread, but in almost every thread about this I've ever seen people just rag on inverted players. Everyone I've...
I just wish we could remove the stigma of using inverted. I don't see anyone in this thread, but in almost every thread about this I've ever seen people just rag on inverted players.
Everyone I've ever mentioned to that I use inverted is always some level of "whyyyyy" to "you're fucking weird"
First three threads I found when googling. Majority of the comments are either "I play inverted because x" or some variation of "inverted players make no sense"/"are weird"...
First three threads I found when googling. Majority of the comments are either "I play inverted because x" or some variation of "inverted players make no sense"/"are weird"
For the first two link, it’s a heavily downvoted main post and every reply is some form of “I play inverted and it’s fine?” or “it’s normal”. The last post isn’t even an insult? If you look at the...
For the first two link, it’s a heavily downvoted main post and every reply is some form of “I play inverted and it’s fine?” or “it’s normal”.
The last post isn’t even an insult?
If you look at the dredges (heavily downvoted) posts of any main sub, you’ll find the dredges of opinion as well.
I had to think a bit to realize why you said it was weird to only invert X. I invert X when I'm controlling something (anything in third person, vehicles in first) because it's weird to me to push...
I had to think a bit to realize why you said it was weird to only invert X. I invert X when I'm controlling something (anything in third person, vehicles in first) because it's weird to me to push forward on the joystick and have them look up, but to me right is always right and left is always left. I'm imagining pushing them, push a person's head forward IRL and they will look down, but push them left and they will move left. Which I guess is different than imagining a joystick attached to the thing being controlled.
Now, in first person I'm not pushing. I can't see anything to push unless I'm in a vehicle. So I think directionality, at which point "forward" is suddenly "up" on the joystick. If I want to force someone to look up I pull back on their head, if I want to look up I just look up.
Edit: I just realized I got my X and Y mixed. Now I see the real issue with inverting X but not Y. >_<
Hahaha. This is so cool. So you basically prefer to rotate whole world instead of your neck and then move your eyes up/down as needed. Something tells me you are either very lazy, suffer from neck...
Hahaha. This is so cool.
So you basically prefer to rotate whole world instead of your neck and then move your eyes up/down as needed. Something tells me you are either very lazy, suffer from neck trauma or maybe have a microscopy background or something. :-)
Some games both inverted and not inverted feel weird to me. I played tons of Halo back in the day and so I would say first person I play Y inverted and it feels pretty natural, but 3rd person gets...
Some games both inverted and not inverted feel weird to me. I played tons of Halo back in the day and so I would say first person I play Y inverted and it feels pretty natural, but 3rd person gets way more wonky for me. I recently replayed Batman Arkham Asylum and I think I landed on inverted, but I switched back and forth several times because they both felt off.
That used to be the default, and some kids learn to play videogames with their parents? Or at the very least watched them play? There were games with that as default on the Xbox 360.
That used to be the default, and some kids learn to play videogames with their parents? Or at the very least watched them play?
There were games with that as default on the Xbox 360.
This thread makes me feel like I'm the weird one, heh. I use non-inverted always specifically including for flight games (e.g. Freespace 2, No Man's Sky) because for me, I don't think of the...
This thread makes me feel like I'm the weird one, heh. I use non-inverted always specifically including for flight games (e.g. Freespace 2, No Man's Sky) because for me, I don't think of the joystick as my neck, but my corneas: I push up if I want to look or move up, down if I want down, left, right, etc. I can't get the hang of inverted controls. I look in the direction I intend to move. I don't even use free look controls because I'm Going Where I'm Going. Not sure what this says about my brain.
I found this quite fascinating. According to the article, although many people (myself included) may have strong and perfectly reasonable ideas of why they invert or don't invert their controls, it turns out that they may be wrong. From the article:
The article goes into more detail about what they specifically mean by this and this link should take you to the research paper itself.
I personally switch between the two control types depending on the game. But by default, I don't usually invert my controls. The article also talks a little about left-handedness and right-handedness. I have always done some things with my left hand that I as a predominantly right-handed person should in theory use my right hand for. I wash dishes like a left-handed person. I deal cards like a left-handed person. I prefer to use a computer mouse/trackball with my left hand. I feel I'd be a better golfer if I played like a lefty, but let's face it, a blind chimp with his arms tied would play better golf than I do. Anyway, in addition to my controller preferences, I now wonder if my occasional left-handed tendencies are learnt behaviour like I always thought, or the result of something inherent in my cognitive system.
I never once thought about it this way, and instead always assumed it had something to do with this:
Actually, I always thought about it in terms of skateboarding. I have always ridden "goofy" (right foot forward) and growing up I always inverted my controls. I don't know that there is a correlation, but that was at least consistent in my group of friends (the exception being a friend who rode skateboards "mongo," which is a goofy/regular hybrid in a way).
I have barely played video games at all for the past 20 years, but recently when playing old Zelda games I realized that I could just accept the controls set either way, even if one way feels less intuitive than the other.
I am also curious! I too favor my left hand/foot for certain things even though I am right-handed: talking on the phone, shoulder bag strap placement, carrying babies, etc. Kind of a weird sample of things to mention, but anyway, I am intrigued by the possibility that this is all just a force of habit.
I always thought it was due to my visual-spacial interpretation of the events on screen: am I thinking about myself as the avatar, or am I thinking about myself as something inhabiting the avatar and controlling it. Trying to phrase that more plainly: am I a person flying a plane, or am I the plane?
That’s an interesting way to put it!
To mess up your sample a bit, I rode goofy back when I skated and I rarely invert in video games - it only feels right in certain circumstances, like flight controls.
I'm pretty sure that whether you invert or not has nothing to do with left or right handedness, and it was just an off the cuff example to say that people may not know if they're using the type of controls that best suits them until they try it out both ways. The research article doesn't seem to mention handedness as a factor in invertedness preference, other than that they recorded it.
Edit: my crtl-f failed me. It does have handedness in the results, and it's not a strong predictor of inversion preference
I've also always been goofy foot, and have wondered if there was some inherent left-ism somewhere inside (I'm right handed in everything else, though my sister kicks with her left foot. The rest of us four siblings are all right-everything). But I also invert my y-axis when using a controller for both FPS and flying. (There is one exception, but I cannot think of what it is at the moment. And now this will likely bother me haha.) This does not apply to playing on a keyboard, interestingly enough.
I do insist on playing ESDF instead of WASD though... :D
That's a very interesting observation - I am also somewhat ambidextrous (I eat with my left hand usually, wristwatch on right hand, some sports with left hand, etc) but I am such an inverted gamer to the point I won't play a game if it's not available in inverted (thankfully it's usually doable via emulation/remapping these days). Many panicky moments switching Halo 3 to inverted when playing on a default profile...
I remember at one point watching some shooter at a relatives house and was given a controller to play multiplayer with the rest. I got about three steps in, couldn't figure out how to switch to inverted, fell off a cliff because I kept pointing the camera up, and very quickly gave up. I just could not comprehend doing it any other way.
I always felt it was more a spatial awareness thing as tilting the camera on a non-inverted setup triggered a near visceral feeling inside my brain. I also have lots of other various sensory issues so I figured the two went hand in hand lol. I'm also very stubborn so that could be a factor too haha
As an aside, you and @sparkle may want to look up "cross-dominance" a.k.a., "mixed handedness". Rather than ambidextrous, I believe that's the correct term for people like us who preferentially use different hands depending on the tasks.
(I'm like you but reversed - technically a lefty, but I use my right for a lot of things. I've noticed that I tend to go left hand for fine motor and right hand for power, with a few exceptions like mousing right-handed.)
I’m right handed, but if I’m riding a bicycle and have to take a hand off the handlebars, I take my right hand off and leave my left hand on. For some reason, I’m more stable that way than if I leave my right hand on the handlebars.
Interesting anecdotes!
I do this too, but never paid much attention to it. I remember a few times that I'd start to a new game and flip flop between the two, because whatever I'm on feels like the wrong one.
I'm like this too. I'm left handed for writing and other key things, but throw with my right hand and do a lot of other things with my right hand. The theory I've been running with for years, entirely of my own concoction, is that it's an interaction between dominant hand and dominant eye.
I wonder if there's a relationship between people with eye/hand sameness and people who invert controls.
Everytime I think about this question I seem to forget what my preference is. But I never ever think about this whilst playing a game. But if given the option, it really takes me a while to realize what's off if I pick the wrong one.
The conclusion of the article isn't too far off of how I approach the question to begin with. If the 3rd person camera is thought of as pivoting around the subject, moving the joystick downwards, causing the character to look up, makes total sense. However, if thought of as controlling the characters head, the opposite makes just as much sense.
This image of a joystick attached to a head is how I've always seen it. I tend to play Y-inverted in almost every game but there are exceptions.
The linked image would also imply X-axis inversion but I loathe playing with that setting. People often speculate it's because of flight sims but I've never really played flight sims much. Y-axis inversion just feels better most of the time.
This "hand on head" version works better for Y only inversion. It's like you have your hand/thumb on their head and move the joystick (or mouse) accordingly. So forward looks down, back looks up, left goes left, right goes right.
Thats because the picture is wrong (for you).
You are not holding joystick. You are using reins. Pull left - go left, pull right - go right, pull both, horse rises.
Much like your muscles.
...i invert based upon the stick representing my spine, tilting my center of gravity to move or bank as does the natural movement of a human body or vehicle...
For me the difference is between piloting a vehicle versus controlling a character. Vehicles I tend to invert, while characters I don't (regardless of whether they're through first or third person cameras). That extends to controlling both at the same time--for example in games where one stick controls the vehicle while the other lets you look around the interior of the cockpit, my preference is the vehicle one be inverted but the character one be non-inverted. My overall tendency is probably non-inversion, because it's much easier for me to adapt to non-inverted vehicle controls than it is to inverted character controls.
Same thing as inverted scrolling. Are you swiping a piece of paper away/towards yourself, or are you swiping in the direction your view should move?
When I was using a Mac laptop for work I was driven absolutely nuts by this. Or more specifically that I couldn't find any way to set the scroll behavior by input device type. On the touch pad it made sense that it behaved like a touch screen in that it dragging down scrolled up. My issue was that if I plugged in a mouse and was using the scroll wheel it then felt completely unnatural.
MacOS natively has one value for all input devices. Which is insane and stupid.
The rest of us end up with BetterTouchTool to solve the problem completely.
Fortunately, I usually use a ball mouse, so the scrolling being clockwise or anticlockwise feels completely arbitrary either way. I totally agree it's a missed feature to toggle the setting for different input methods.
Noise: There’s dozens of us! #BallMouseLyfe
...i've never heard the term ball mouse; is that the same thing as a trackball?..
I never understood that argument since I’m not touching the screen itself. Mac itself calls inverted “natural scrolling” 😊.
They dropped their “un” behind their sofa
It reminds me enough of other physical systems where you push something around in a disconnected viewpoint, like aligning a page on a projector or moving a slide in a microscope, that it felt intuitive enough for me. I may have had issue if it was further physically disconnected, but on a laptop in particular it behaves the same as if you imagine there's a big long sheet of paper inside the whole laptop (stretching under both the screen and keyboard) but you only have a small area you can use to push it around. My guess is that it would've felt way weirder if I just plugged a touchpad into a desktop though.
I have it so swiping down the touchpad scrolls the page down, is that inverted nowadays? I think macos had that as the default back in the day but they switched it at some point.. But I’m still used to that. Most of the time I’m scrolling down anyway, and the motion is nicer.
It's how everyone naturally tilts their head. You pull back on your head to look up, and you push forward on your head to look down, simple. That is why I invert my controls.
Aha--you're right! I think that's finally the explanation for why it feels more natural to me. The "handle on the back of the head" image was close, but this is perfect.
It's all about the muscles.
I remember getting so much shit from my friends for having inverted y-axis when we would take turns with the controller back in the day
The first PC games I ever played had inverted controls, Descent and Duke Nukem 3D. I could only play games from that point on inverted no matter what. That is until a year ago my brain for some reason switched over and am now forced to use standard mouse controls from that point on. It was a weird sensation when one day inverted looking felt just as weird as default controls used to. No idea what happened.
Huh, I usually invert analog sticks but never invert mice.
You are used to cursor being referenced to a plane in front of you. Its easier to slide along that plane and keep going full sphere. Like an extension of strategy games edge scroll to 3D.
Joystick feels very angular due to the pivot.
Now I’d be interested to see if there’s a correlation with ADHD or not. I should also probably try to play “inverted”…I tend to be much worse at 3D mental manipulation than my wife (who has ADHD and claims 3D-brain is her ADHD superpower).
This is funny to me! I'd be interested in seeing if there's any correlation as well. For another anecdotal reference point: I have diagnosed ADHD(PI) and I have very good perceptual reasoning. It was even noted on my diagnosis. My wife is also diagnosed ADHD, but she struggles with perceptual reasoning. To the point where she gets frustrated when I ask her to try to picture something fitting somewhere.
Although ADHD isn't specifically one of the factors in the paper, it seems like they did ask some questions in the survey that are similar to questions on ADHD questionnaires. This was represented by the "ITQFocus" item, which didn't predict invertedness preference.
Some question examples out of about 30 along similar lines:
My partner is not a gamer but also prefers inverted controls if she plays something like powerwash simulator.
But the real trippy part is that she also inverts the direction her computer scrolls. But she swipes the same direction as the rest of us.... which is technically inverted right? Does anyone invert their swipe direction on their phone?
Added a related comment here.
I don't invert my phone swiping, but my mouse pad scrolling is inverted per some people. It makes more sense to me.
I just wish we could remove the stigma of using inverted. I don't see anyone in this thread, but in almost every thread about this I've ever seen people just rag on inverted players.
Everyone I've ever mentioned to that I use inverted is always some level of "whyyyyy" to "you're fucking weird"
...I can't lie, I don't think I've ever seen that, in person or online. And I use inverted X normal Y, which is perhaps the weirdest of them all.
First three threads I found when googling. Majority of the comments are either "I play inverted because x" or some variation of "inverted players make no sense"/"are weird"
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/v5l1n5/genuine_question_here_who_tf_uses_inverted/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/i2dzr4/question_why_do_people_like_inverted_controls/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ke7f60/inverted_controls_vs_non_inverted/
For the first two link, it’s a heavily downvoted main post and every reply is some form of “I play inverted and it’s fine?” or “it’s normal”.
The last post isn’t even an insult?
If you look at the dredges (heavily downvoted) posts of any main sub, you’ll find the dredges of opinion as well.
I had to think a bit to realize why you said it was weird to only invert X. I invert X when I'm controlling something (anything in third person, vehicles in first) because it's weird to me to push forward on the joystick and have them look up, but to me right is always right and left is always left. I'm imagining pushing them, push a person's head forward IRL and they will look down, but push them left and they will move left. Which I guess is different than imagining a joystick attached to the thing being controlled.
Now, in first person I'm not pushing. I can't see anything to push unless I'm in a vehicle. So I think directionality, at which point "forward" is suddenly "up" on the joystick. If I want to force someone to look up I pull back on their head, if I want to look up I just look up.
Edit: I just realized I got my X and Y mixed. Now I see the real issue with inverting X but not Y. >_<
Hahaha. This is so cool.
So you basically prefer to rotate whole world instead of your neck and then move your eyes up/down as needed. Something tells me you are either very lazy, suffer from neck trauma or maybe have a microscopy background or something. :-)
Some games both inverted and not inverted feel weird to me. I played tons of Halo back in the day and so I would say first person I play Y inverted and it feels pretty natural, but 3rd person gets way more wonky for me. I recently replayed Batman Arkham Asylum and I think I landed on inverted, but I switched back and forth several times because they both felt off.
That used to be the default, and some kids learn to play videogames with their parents? Or at the very least watched them play?
There were games with that as default on the Xbox 360.
This thread makes me feel like I'm the weird one, heh. I use non-inverted always specifically including for flight games (e.g. Freespace 2, No Man's Sky) because for me, I don't think of the joystick as my neck, but my corneas: I push up if I want to look or move up, down if I want down, left, right, etc. I can't get the hang of inverted controls. I look in the direction I intend to move. I don't even use free look controls because I'm Going Where I'm Going. Not sure what this says about my brain.