Sleeping on the floor
I have grown dissatisfied with my mattress. I bought a new one 2 months ago, and I chose the firmest grade of foam available in my country. I don't like springs. When choosing a mattress, my goal is to find something that provides sufficient support without being too rigid. The foam grade vendors suggest for my weight is extremely soft, like sleeping on cotton candy. I don't know why people have this obsession with softness -- it is uncomfortable and terrible for your back.
My new mattress is perfectly fine but it is still not firm enough. Foam quickly loses its rigidity, and I can feel that it is happening already. It is not as firm as it was when it arrived. On a whim, I decided to sleep on the floor. Not literally on the floor, as I have no wish to press directly against the ground all night. I piled the folded plastic plaques we previously used for my son's playpen and wrapped them in a pair of thick quilts. The result was still very rigid but gentler on my joints. I slept on it yesterday. It was a success. I felt refreshed, only woke up once and got back to sleep right away. It was better than sleeping on my mattress.
I looked up traditional Japanese tatamis and futons, but they must be imported in my country because they were more expensive than a mattress. I ordered 4 meters of EVA -- each roll is 2 meters by 1 meter, 1 centimeter thick. I intend to stack them for a thickness of 2 centimeters, providing greater comfort with the same amount of rigidity. I may transition to (kinda) sleeping on the ground full time.
How do you like your mattress? Do you sleep on the floor as well? Or in something that resembles sleeping on the floor?
My wife and I have been sleeping on the floor for about 17 years now. It used to be with a latex topper no more than 6 cm thick. Our baby daughter and the two of us with several animals in a big pile every night.
Then our daughter got old enough to want her own bed and kicked us out of her room. My wife wanted to sleep directly on the floor but I convinced her to share a very narrow and thin twin sized futon with me. We have been on that for 12 years now.
I find it funny that other comments are trying to talk you out of this or consider it crazy or extreme. You do have to be physically fit but I see that as part of the deal. If I wake up very sore from a night on the ground then I know I need to get in better shape. If I can’t sleep on the floor in my own house then I can’t sleep in the dirt when I go backpacking.
This all started when I went to Japan for a month 25 years ago. Putting the futon away every morning gives you a whole other room to use that isn’t just for storing a giant bed.
A nice thick felted wool rug or sheepskin would also be good but we haven’t tried it yet. Good luck with your sleep!
Could you explain this a bit more? I used to sleep flat on my back, and I'm a small athletic person. I now prefer a softer mattress so I can get some cushioning when sleeping on my side.
It's mainly about being strong enough to stabilize your joints and keep things from grinding. I've learned some old man skills. There are only a few poses I sleep in now, on my side or on my back, with my hands and feet and neck and shoulders and elbows and knees all just so. But if you lose conditioning, the joints can't support themselves and you wake up with them grinding.
Core strength is also important as well as proper posture and neck/head placement. Another old man skill I've learned is that if something musculoskeletal is hurt, it's not complaining to be babied. It's weak. Do whatever recovery it needs then make it a point of strength. Bad back? Work on it and make your back your strongest point. Bad knees? (me) I just finally got the fascia around my knees to behave for one of the first times in decades and now I'm up to 50 squats/day. Either I make them strong now at 55 or I lose them. I'm always shocked to see people making the other choice, loading up on drugs and surgery and hopelessness.
I'm going to push back on your "exercise away all your aches and pains" theory a little bit.
Anecdata: I was in great shape when everything went to hell - weightlifting, 5 km/day on an elliptical trainer, typical daily walking of 10,000 - 20,000 steps, yoga, and tai chi. Over the course of a few months, I developed joint pain and stiffness everywhere to the point that I couldn't sleep more than an hour or two at a time (tried sleeping on the floor, too), extreme fatigue, and other issues.
I tried to maintain or increase my usual activity level, did physical therapy exercises for the worst joints, ran through anti-inflammatory drugs and diet changes, but only worked myself into joint replacements (albeit with the help of some medical malpractice from a doctor who ignored a bad lab result).
The moral of this story is that exercise, diet, and functional changes in your habits or furnishings can only go so far. There's a point at which your body will break down in ways that need medical correction. You may be diligent and fortunate enough to push that date far into the future, but don't judge those who aren't so lucky.
I'd add to EarlyWords that sleeping in the floor means having to get in the ground and up to your feet. That does require you to be a trained athlete but sometime who can't get up without brancing themselves or getting winded would have a hard time asking with that every morning. Whereas hip height beds allow you to get in and out from standing height.
I slept on a foam futon for a month or two. The futon itself was very comfortable, and I loved that it folded up to put away. Where fitness comes into it is that it’s on the floor. Every morning you wake up and have to get up off of the floor. It kind of added another sucky to getting up in the morning. It doesn’t sound like a big deal, but it can be if you aren’t used to even sitting on the floor. I was transitioning into being more fit at the time, but was overweight.
My biggest challenge with it was figuring out how to get dressed, I’m used to sitting on the bed for things like putting on socks. I was waiting on my furniture from a move, so I didn’t have any chairs.
I still have that futon, it’s now bedding overflow for when we have people over that don’t want to drive home.
I mean that sounds pretty extreme, but I also love a firm mattress... Not quite as firm as it seems you like though.
I recently (3 months ago) got a new mattress after a fair bit of shopping around and just being horribly dissatisfied by many of them being either too soft or basically like sleeping on a log.
I finally found a foam mattress that had the prefect amount of give and firmness that I almost fell asleep in the showroom lol.
So I mean I guess all I can suggest is go try a lot of mattresses. I'm not sure about the Japanese style stuff, I can't say I've ever tried it but maybe it's amazing!
You can also replace whatever is under the mattress in your bed with something fixed, rather than the springy wood that's commonly used, and place the new foam you're building on top of that, so it's basically the same as sleeping on the floor, just a bit higher.
Or if you find that it works well, get rid of the bed to save the space
I've been hunting for an option as well, because I also prefer something a lot firmer, but so far other expenses have had priority...
Edit: I have a stuffed couch from China that's really really firm and would be amazing to sleep on, except it's a bit too short for long term use. The few days here and there that I used it were amazing. I don't know what's in it (I think it's chopped up textile rests), but maybe something like that in mattress form
Maybe you should try sleeping in a hammock. I have never done this myself, but some people swear by it. They are relatively cheap, so it’s not a huge loss if you don’t like it. I don’t think taught fabric will emulate sleeping on the floor, but it will certainly be different from a soft foam mattress.
Thanks!
As a Brazilian I have ample experience with hammocks, and ours are very good. Unfortunately, in my experience, hammocks are not good for sleeping for long. your back will hurt, it's pretty much guaranteed :/
My theory is that hammocks do not "enforce" any kind of posture, it is very freeform. So, when you are awake, you will unconsciously move towards a good posture. That won't happen if you are sleeping.
That has always been my theory. But I am also a stomach sleeper (sometimes), which is probably even worse in a hammock.
Actually appreciate this thread though not much to add; I used to sleep on the floor every now and then because it would help me feel more relaxed. Put a stop to it when a partner didn’t like it though
At the time I was doing it I was also rather fit and active - I had started it specifically because of having sore muscles and wanting as close to sleeping on a foam roller as possible. And yeah, I’d wake up feeling a lot more refreshed. I’d only do it like once a month though when I was feeling particular sore, just sleeping straight on the carpet floor with a pillow and blanket
My ignorant ass-theory is that it’s good if you’re in shape as it applies pressure to the muscles to help relax them - now that I’m overweight, I kinda assume all that added weight and less muscle would be worse on the body
You might be interested in this thread about DIY mattress, I had saved it to look into more myself - I haven’t been fully happy with any mattress purchase I’ve made over the years. But being able to just make it as firm as you want would probably help: https://tildes.net/~life.home_improvement/19sc/what_are_your_diy_mattress_experiences
I am most certainly not in shape, and I loved sleeping on the floor with my makeshift bedding. But I still don't know how I'm going to feel sleeping on the floor multiple times. I am not extremely overweight but I am definitely above my ideal weight. I hope that the softer materials I put between me and the floor will mitigate some of the effects of being overweight.
You could try a latex hybrid mattress. They’re somewhat expensive but it’s the firmest mattress I’ve had and I love it. Definitely go try it out somewhere first though, they can be pretty polarizing.
In my country (as in many) they have these post order matras company.
I purchased one from www.emma-sleep.nl it's a firm pocket spring one with foam.
It's the most rigid traditional matras I've ever slept on and like it.
I also liked sleeping on futon (shikibuton) in Japan which was even more firm.
I doubt that these would be difficult to DIY as it's not much material.
My theory on matrasses is that there's different strokes for different folks. Sleep on whatever tingles your jingle.
Good thing about the post order matrasses is that they allow free returns if it doesn't suit you.
When I was younger and living with my mother, I had a great "rustic" bed that was just high quality wood and a mattress. It was durable and reliable. When I got back from vacation with my dad, she had thrown my perfect wood bed away and got me some box abomination and a mattress that was softer than a cloud. I couldn't say anything because it was a gift. I slept on that fucking cotton candy shitty bed for years.
The idea that you can just gift a mattress to someone without even asking for their preference is insane!
Sleeping directly on bamboo is still pretty common in Vietnam. Here's a video to show what I'm talking about: How To Make Bamboo Bed
I like a quite firm mattress, but I'm a side sleeper and I have a pear-shaped body (my hips are much wider than my shoulders), so I do need some extra give just around my hips. I am fortunate that I was able to visit a mattress-making business and get one that is exactly right for me. You should see if there's anything like that near you because they could probably make something extra firm for you.
I am not surprised that sleeping directly on foam isn't working out. In my experience, foam basically just makes the sleeping experience hotter and not much else. It seems to me foam works best when it's heavily upholstered, so that your weight is effectively spread out across a larger surface area (I hate pocket springs for the same reason). To replicate this effect, maybe try placing a rug on top of the foam and see if that gets you closer to what you're after?
If you're feeling crafty, another thing to try is making your own custom futon by layering up thick fabrics (towel material, felt pads, secondhand blankets cut to size, or anything else you can come up with) until you get a consistency that you like. Once you've finalized it, you can sew a cover for them (or in a pinch, you could probably just put them inside a duvet cover) and then tie everything together with an upholstery needle and yarn as if you were making an old-timey hand-tied quilt. I've never made a full mattress this way, but I've made firm pillows and floor pads with great success. My guess is that you wouldn't need it to be all that thick if you make it out of dense fabric without a lot of give.
Yeah, if you can't get one in your country easily, making one is not incredibly difficult if you have a sewing machine. Futons are basically just overstuffed quilts, so you can make one by getting some thick batting or just making pockets and stuffing them with loose fill. Wool is relatively expensive as a material but it might be more desirable because it's warm and fairly dense.
Super interesting topic. I cannot relate at all because I cannot sleep on anything remotely hard. I end up waking up because of pain in my hip, so it’s interesting to hear that’s not the case for everyone!
So while I can’t really add much to the discussion of comfort, it still is good to bring up moisture and ventilation. Most beds are designed to provide bottom ventilation to get rid of moisture that accumulates in the mattress. Keep this in mind when you place something directly on the floor. Especially when the floor is cold, it will be a place where mold will start to form.
I'm a soft-mattress-lover because I can only sleep on my side or my stomach, preferably stomach. Too firm a mattress creates so many painful pressure points that it feels like I've fallen down the stairs when I wake up.
I used to sleep on a coconut mattress and can recommend trying one if you are looking for a hard mattress that breathes well and maintains a pleasant temperature.
I remember my grandparent would sleep on stone bed with a mat on top. It was really hard, but warm since it had a heating system. If you live near a korean community, they might have some imports.
I’ve been sleeping on a shikibuton (a few inches of eucalyptus batting + a couple inches of latex foam) for a couple years. It took some getting used to, but I’ve come to like it: for whatever reason, it’s much easier to stay cool during the summer and warm during the winter, and I like how easily it can be deep cleaned. If shipping weren’t prohibitive, I’d totally recommend pulling the trigger (but intercontinental shipping is rather pricey …)
I’ve been meaning to pull the trigger on a tatami, but it’s been hard to justify the price + floor space for it. It does seem like a nice improvement in comfort, though, and would be a neat piece of furniture on its own.
One advantage to your foam solution is that the stuffing doesn’t get shoved to the sides of the shikibuton — I have to strategically slap mine every once in a while to avoid dents in the middle. I really like that the natural fibres are biodegradable, though.
Get a Japanese futon?
Pretty sure that would solve your problem.
Shouldn't be too expensive either.
Thanks! Those are unfortunately very expensive in my location.
Best mattress i ever slept on was my ‘76 vw westphalia. 6” of latex (i think?) on steel car body.
I know you said no coils, but are you sure? I have an extra firm coil mattress and it’s almost as good.
Thank you for this post. I was considering this for the past few days and you inspired me to roll out my yoga mat and set out the bedding! Time to start the experiment, maybe I'll get up a bit easier in the morning if my bed isn't so comfortable to lay around in.
Awesome! I genuinely slept very well on the floor so I think that is something worth trying.
First night was a bit slow, as in there were a couple wake ups and shifting around, but I think I'll stick with it for a month and see how I adjust. It would be great if I could put away the massive queen bed that takes up so much of my room.
Awesome. My EVA arrived, and it is more rigid than I would have wanted. It's what they have on a gym's floor. So I'll keep looking for a better material. That said, right now, my only "problem" is that my wife is upset because we spent a lot of money on my new mattress and now she thinks I won't even use it :P
Haha yea I would absolutely not be doing this if I had a partner to be sleeping next to :) Hopefully you can find a happy medium
Oh, my wife and I have been sleeping in separate beds for 2 years! It is better for us. We are still in the same bed lots of times (and not just for sex lol), but we sleep separately. So the major concern is really the money, since we paid a lot for my mattress and it would feel wasteful for me not to use it anymore :P
This is purely anecdote, but:
So my rough mental model is that beds can more easily strain your lower back, while the floor is stress on the upper back. Exercise increases the body's tolerance for either. But like I said this is just an anecdote, and my thinking is still evolving. If others have evidence or suggestions for or against I'd appreciate hearing them. I suspect a well-tuned mattress will obviate all this, but in this day and age I don't know where you can feel confident that you'll get to a well-tuned mattress to a level of certainty that matches the amount of money these things cost.