I wonder if the e-ink or otherwise monochrome screens these sorts of devices have are actually necessary. It makes them nice as e-readers, but as shown in the video poses a number of usability...
I wonder if the e-ink or otherwise monochrome screens these sorts of devices have are actually necessary. It makes them nice as e-readers, but as shown in the video poses a number of usability challenges.
Maybe just shrinking the screen down and making it an odd aspect ratio would be enough to make social media scrolling and such unappealing. Could be as simple as bringing back the iPhone 3GS/4 design with its small 4:3 screen or making a similarly sized phone with a 1:1 square screen and physical keyboard.
Color-capable e-ink screens are already a thing, and I don’t think it will be terribly many more years before they’re capable of “phone quality” (maybe some more colors than 5-6, and higher...
Color-capable e-ink screens are already a thing, and I don’t think it will be terribly many more years before they’re capable of “phone quality” (maybe some more colors than 5-6, and higher refresh rates, and more sizes and shapes) at consumer prices.
(I’m kind of a huge e-ink fan, but
for the most part because of the battery and outside/in bright light readability implications.)
I don't think we're ever going to get fast enough refresh rates with them to ever make them feel like a phone screen. Scrolling is just not pleasant in them, and never will be with this...
I don't think we're ever going to get fast enough refresh rates with them to ever make them feel like a phone screen. Scrolling is just not pleasant in them, and never will be with this technologies.
I want an e-ink phone for things like browsing tildes, playing music, making phone calls, texting, viewing pictures my family text me. But it breaks down with Instagram and YouTube will never be practical.
Isn’t that what people (and by people I mean people who are in the market for dumb phones) want? It can do essentials like pay for parking tickets, but is miserable for social media. It’s a device...
But it breaks down with Instagram and YouTube will never be practical.
Isn’t that what people (and by people I mean people who are in the market for dumb phones) want? It can do essentials like pay for parking tickets, but is miserable for social media.
It’s a device where the path of least resistance in terms of entertainment is… to read paginated content.
A screen like the Playdate’s might be a good alternative to e-ink. It’s a one-bit screen with no lighting, but it’s capable of some pretty complex graphics. They just released an app that features...
A screen like the Playdate’s might be a good alternative to e-ink. It’s a one-bit screen with no lighting, but it’s capable of some pretty complex graphics. They just released an app that features streaming video, for example.
Anything capable of streaming video is capable of streaming brainrot. I'm definitely with the people saying that crappy refresh rates are a feature for a human centric phone.
Anything capable of streaming video is capable of streaming brainrot. I'm definitely with the people saying that crappy refresh rates are a feature for a human centric phone.
I had never heard of that device before, but they market it as Memory LCD which is what my Pebble smartwatch used. That tech is good for low power draw, with almost no power used when not...
I had never heard of that device before, but they market it as Memory LCD which is what my Pebble smartwatch used. That tech is good for low power draw, with almost no power used when not refreshing. It did look really good with animations, too. My Pebble's big downside was low light readability, but it had a pretty poor front light implementation. They seem to mainly be small screen, and low DPI, not that I have a big problem with that. Color hardware was possible, too.
I am personally infatuated with color eink screens, myself. I have a Kobo ereader that I adore. I prefer the higher resolution clarity to the smoothness of a Memory LCD myself, but we're all going to have different priorities with this stuff.
I am reading your comment from a device with an e-ink screen capable of fluidly playing video. 60 Hz, I believe. Take that as you will. ;) Also, it can play video. But for me so far the issue...
I am reading your comment from a device with an e-ink screen capable of fluidly playing video. 60 Hz, I believe.
Take that as you will. ;)
Also, it can play video. But for me so far the issue mostly hasn’t been the b&w, but rather the poor contrast caused by it. I legitimately can’t see content well, especially for videos defaulting to “dark mode” backgrounds (and white/light text on top)… not that I’m trying to primarily use it for watching video, anyway.
Seems like a cool device, I hadn't personally seen it before now, thank you for sharing. I had to look up the display technology, it sounds like it's a large format reflective LCD. Seems like a...
Seems like a cool device, I hadn't personally seen it before now, thank you for sharing.
I had to look up the display technology, it sounds like it's a large format reflective LCD. Seems like a good technology for a tablet, and would probably be more functional for a dumb phone than e-ink.
Live Paper has a little more glare, uses a lot more power, and has significantly worse viewing angles than my Kindle.
The refresh rate looks amazing, but the poor contrast is disappointing. I've long wanted a device like this for reading manga. Sadly, the contrast isn't good enough to carry whatever "pop" the...
The refresh rate looks amazing, but the poor contrast is disappointing. I've long wanted a device like this for reading manga. Sadly, the contrast isn't good enough to carry whatever "pop" the artist originally intended with the simple palette.
Yeah, I was aware with my purchase that I’d be part of the “first gen” buyers on whom it is to report & help iron out any kinks… Which is something I normally try to avoid as much as possible...
Yeah, I was aware with my purchase that I’d be part of the “first gen” buyers on whom it is to report & help iron out any kinks… Which is something I normally try to avoid as much as possible (with both hard- and software), but here, curiosity got me. :P
Apps use color to draw you in. Lots of people change their screen to grayscale to help them spend less time on their phones. It does create usability issues but I feel like some amount of friction...
Apps use color to draw you in. Lots of people change their screen to grayscale to help them spend less time on their phones. It does create usability issues but I feel like some amount of friction is part of the point.
Maybe just shrinking the screen down and making it an odd aspect ratio would be enough to make social media scrolling and such unappealing
There are phones now that are basically old style flip phones but run some form of android. Look up the CAT S22. They look like they might be almost as much a pain in the ass as an e-ink phone, just for different reasons.
I don’t doubt that, but I’d hate to have those usability issues crop up in pure-utility use cases, with a slim chance that it becomes an impediment to something urgent. Using a regular phone and...
Apps use color to draw you in. Lots of people change their screen to grayscale to help them spend less time on their phones. It does create usability issues but I feel like some amount of friction is part of the point.
I don’t doubt that, but I’d hate to have those usability issues crop up in pure-utility use cases, with a slim chance that it becomes an impediment to something urgent. Using a regular phone and switching color off situationally (perhaps automated if you’re fancy) seems like the better move.
Flip phones are kind of interesting except I don’t think I could make the switch to numpad typing for texting. It’s not something I ever did since I didn’t have a cell phone at all up until uni, when I got an iPhone 3GS.
I have an iPhone 15 which lets you rebind the mute button to toggle the grayscale on and off. It's nice for when you need to quickly look at something that requires color context like maps.
I have an iPhone 15 which lets you rebind the mute button to toggle the grayscale on and off. It's nice for when you need to quickly look at something that requires color context like maps.
iOS has had a custom keyboard API for many years now, I think the better part of a decade. A lot of people use GBoard and SwiftKey instead of the stock keyboard for example. I’ve toyed with it...
iOS has had a custom keyboard API for many years now, I think the better part of a decade. A lot of people use GBoard and SwiftKey instead of the stock keyboard for example.
I’ve toyed with it myself and there’s no technical reason why a T9 virtual keyboard shouldn’t be possible. Keyboards can take up as much or little screen space as they like and are given access to the text field the user currently has highlighted, so custom keyboards don’t even need to act like traditional keyboards and can be more general text manipulators, should the dev desire to do so. The only real limitation is that the system doesn’t allow custom keyboards to access password fields and falls back to stock for those for security reasons.
Password managers are a first class citizen too. There is a password manager api (not quite as old as the keyboard api). They can autofill password fields directly, even in browsers. And browsers,...
Password managers are a first class citizen too. There is a password manager api (not quite as old as the keyboard api). They can autofill password fields directly, even in browsers. And browsers, including the stock safari, support extensions, so you can have the password managers interact with the page with JavaScript.
You'd be surprised. I tend to alternate between iOS and Android when I upgrade phones (currently Android) and there really isn't that much of a difference anymore. It's mostly down to UI/UX...
There's going to be some friction
You'd be surprised. I tend to alternate between iOS and Android when I upgrade phones (currently Android) and there really isn't that much of a difference anymore. It's mostly down to UI/UX preferences and little walled garden stuff. But honestly whatever freedom Android provides goes largely unused by me.
You’ll need to sign into an Apple account to use the App Store and such, but it’s not super pushy about using iCloud. Just go into the iCloud section under the account pane in Settings and flip...
You’ll need to sign into an Apple account to use the App Store and such, but it’s not super pushy about using iCloud. Just go into the iCloud section under the account pane in Settings and flip everything off. The only thing that might get annoying is if you want to back up your phone, you’ll have to do those periodically on your computer.
The stock apps (Mail, Calendar, Reminders, Notes, Contacts, etc) are all built around standard IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV, etc so you don’t even necessarily need to replace those if you don’t want to. Just sign into a third party provider (like I do with FastMail) and you’re golden. This is actually a sticking point for me on Android — there, the Gmail app can act as a generic email client but no such luck for calendar, reminders, notes, etc if you’re not interested in Google’s services. You have to hunt down good non-service-specific apps for all of those categories.
When I (briefly) used a Unihertz Jelly as my primary phone I downloaded a T9 keypad because typing was just impossible on such a tiny QWERTY, but without the feedback of physical buttons using the...
When I (briefly) used a Unihertz Jelly as my primary phone I downloaded a T9 keypad because typing was just impossible on such a tiny QWERTY, but without the feedback of physical buttons using the T9 was much more difficult.
I'm not adding any new information here, but wanted to reference that last month @IsildursBane made a pretty popular thread with his personal experiences on this topic and I'd definitely suggest...
Apps use color to draw you in. Lots of people change their screen to grayscale to help them spend less time on their phones. It does create usability issues but I feel like some amount of friction is part of the point.
I'm not adding any new information here, but wanted to reference that last month @IsildursBane made a pretty popular thread with his personal experiences on this topic and I'd definitely suggest reading the whole thread!
I have not watched this video (due to intentionally avoiding all YouTube coverage of these neo-dumbphones while I am waiting for mine, so that I form my own opinions on it), but I would say...
I have not watched this video (due to intentionally avoiding all YouTube coverage of these neo-dumbphones while I am waiting for mine, so that I form my own opinions on it), but I would say greyscale is quite usable. I am still running my phone in greyscale 95% of the time, but there are some occasional usability issues. The most frequent use case that I turn it off for is showing someone a picture on my phone.
4/4S was pretty good, but I’m partial to the 3GS for its soft curved palm-fitting back which also happened to be pretty resilient to drops. Pretty much zero chance of that coming back though, that...
4/4S was pretty good, but I’m partial to the 3GS for its soft curved palm-fitting back which also happened to be pretty resilient to drops.
Pretty much zero chance of that coming back though, that kind of curve hasn’t been seen in electronics for a very long time.
I've been critical of these phones but that $400 one that still lets you use Google Play is actually kind of a good idea. I think by literally not letting you smooth scroll or get hooked on...
I've been critical of these phones but that $400 one that still lets you use Google Play is actually kind of a good idea. I think by literally not letting you smooth scroll or get hooked on short-form video but still giving you an e-ink display for what is an essential utility outside the US (WhatsApp), or whatever other apps is a great idea.
Of course, none of this applies to me as a work-from-home degenerate with access to larger screens at a whim. But it might be good for well adjusted people.
These convoluted, expensive attempts to make functionally worse phones never really made sense to me. I understand that for most people that buy them, the appeal of these devices is that it forces...
These convoluted, expensive attempts to make functionally worse phones never really made sense to me. I understand that for most people that buy them, the appeal of these devices is that it forces you to not be drawn into your phone as much, but I can't help but feel like thats a bandaid on a bigger problem. Namely, why do you feel the need to occupy your time on your phone so much? What else could you be doing with your time? Do you have hobbies or relationships you'd rather focus on instead?
I view it similar to other addictions. If my job forced me to carry around a pack of cigarettes all day, it'd be annoying, but I wouldn't be tempted to smoke them, because I'm not addicted to cigarettes. Same goes for my phone. If you DO have that temptation, I'd argue that you have some degree of addiction to it, which has some underlying cause.
I've personally never had a real issue with being on my phone too much (other than hating notifications), and I think it's because I prioritize other stuff. I just sort of view any time idly scrolling on my phone as wasted time that I don't derive any enjoyment out of, similar to just sitting at a table and reading the back of a cereal box. I get that not everyone is that way, but the answer to that problem seems like more inner work, correctly identifying values, and tying those values to actions, rather than by buying yet another gadget that will make it hard or impossible to do online banking.
I would think your position that scrolling phones is the same as other addictions should make these devices make more sense. Nobody would argue that someone who's a recovering alcoholic should be...
I would think your position that scrolling phones is the same as other addictions should make these devices make more sense. Nobody would argue that someone who's a recovering alcoholic should be carrying around a bottle of booze, or that someone who quit smoking should be carrying around a pack of cigarettes--removing the source of temptation in order to reduce your risk of relapse is a huge part of recovering from addiction.
I view it as carrying around a flask of bathtub gin instead of good whiskey. You're still going to drink it, it will just be unpleasant, and I don't think either one is a great way to beat an...
I view it as carrying around a flask of bathtub gin instead of good whiskey. You're still going to drink it, it will just be unpleasant, and I don't think either one is a great way to beat an addiction.
I mean I would note that the Boox Palma is explicitly not a phone nor sold as a phone. It’s just an e reader with a similar form factor to phones. It doesn’t even have a cellular radio.
I mean I would note that the Boox Palma is explicitly not a phone nor sold as a phone. It’s just an e reader with a similar form factor to phones. It doesn’t even have a cellular radio.
I really question the inclusion of the Boox Palma. It’s not a phone. It’s not sold as a phone. It does not have a cellular modem, so it cannot replace your phone straight up. The person in the...
I really question the inclusion of the Boox Palma. It’s not a phone. It’s not sold as a phone. It does not have a cellular modem, so it cannot replace your phone straight up. The person in the video had to tether it to their actual phone.
I’m not surprised that person said “no” wrg to whether or not they felt it was a good experience.
The other phone was interesting - it seems like it’s just missing good manufacturing, with signal drop offs and NFC failures highlighted in the video.
So I've been using a Qin F21 Pro for the past month or two, and I do think it helps. It runs Android and has a tiny touchscreen, but it has a physical number pad. I have found that it absolutely...
So I've been using a Qin F21 Pro for the past month or two, and I do think it helps.
It runs Android and has a tiny touchscreen, but it has a physical number pad.
I have found that it absolutely helps with the doom scrolling and constant connectedness, without sacrificing my personal necessities like Spotify, Google Maps, Android Auto, and my Audiobooks.
The T9 keyboard matched with the tiny screen that barely any apps seem to be made for, means that I can still browse Reddit from time to time, but I can't engage with it like I can on a full smart phone. I can read headlines and stay up to date, but I can't like respond easily or get lost in the comments.
So it's dumb enough to kick the doomscrolling and urges to stare at my phone when I'm bored, but smart enough to not cut me off completely.
I'd be curious about the E-Ink dumb phones though. I do like the idea, but they tend to be more expensive. The one I have was around $150 a couple years ago, so it doesn't break the bank.
I think their challenges and their expectations really highlight how forcefully integrated the Android/IOS duopoly is and how everything needs to be an app. I have a tap to pay solution with...
I think their challenges and their expectations really highlight how forcefully integrated the Android/IOS duopoly is and how everything needs to be an app. I have a tap to pay solution with infinite battery capacity that just works better that a phone ever will, it is called a credit card.
Why in hell would someone get a phone like this and use it for video or social media? The e-ink is perfect for reading and there is massive amount of free material and further massive amount of paid material, one of them was using an actual e-reader.
To be honest phones like these don't really appeal to me. Smartphones do have actual utility, the sw designed for them is simply overloaded with addictive elements which are better simply avoided. As with ads, no one is actually immune but they still have the agency to realize that and mitigate as and when possible. It is just than most no one bothers.
And finally these were not actual dumbphones. One was a straight up e-reader that happens to run Android and the second was a limited Android.
And there’s no reason the person in the video couldn’t have used a credit card either. It was just for comedic effect. Well, yeah, that’s the point. They incentivize you to read. The point is to...
have a tap to pay solution with infinite battery capacity that just works better that a phone ever will, it is called a credit card.
And there’s no reason the person in the video couldn’t have used a credit card either. It was just for comedic effect.
Why in hell would someone get a phone like this and use it for video or social media? The e-ink is perfect for reading and there is massive amount of free material and further massive amount of paid material, one of them was using an actual e-reader.
Well, yeah, that’s the point. They incentivize you to read. The point is to not use social media, unless absolutely necessary.
The tap to pay on transit bit varies regionally. I don’t think credit cards work for my local transit and know they don’t in Japan. Both use dedicated cards instead, and the benefit to using...
The tap to pay on transit bit varies regionally. I don’t think credit cards work for my local transit and know they don’t in Japan. Both use dedicated cards instead, and the benefit to using phone/watch digital versions is that they can be reloaded on the fly (on iOS, right in the native Wallet app without even having to use a probably-bad third party app or website) so I don’t need to stop at a ticket machine or physical shop that can reload the card.
If you set these digital cards as your primary transit cards, they continue to work even if your phone has run out of power, too.
It does baffle me why places implementing tap-to-pay for transit don't all make it work with credit/debit cards. I was able to use mine when in Lisbon and it was so convenient.
It does baffle me why places implementing tap-to-pay for transit don't all make it work with credit/debit cards. I was able to use mine when in Lisbon and it was so convenient.
Transaction fees, complexity, and financial benefit. The first two are combined. If you accept credit cards, then you’ll have to pay visa/mc/amex their share of interchange. Additionally, the...
Transaction fees, complexity, and financial benefit.
The first two are combined. If you accept credit cards, then you’ll have to pay visa/mc/amex their share of interchange. Additionally, the integration becomes much more complex, since you add at least one more party (if you delegate to a single company to handle payments), and potentially up to 6 (if you handle all the rails yourself).
In some locales, credit and debit cards may not be as accessible as in the US. In Japan, for instance, you have to apply… for debit cards. For some reason.
Finally, the transit card model is financially advantageous. It’s just like gift cards. Transit companies effectively get an advance on payment, since people will pay for higher amounts of credits and then gradually spend them.
I forget where I read it but if I recall, transit IC cards also eliminate several processing steps compared to credit cards, which lowers latency and improves speed and reliability at turnstiles.
I forget where I read it but if I recall, transit IC cards also eliminate several processing steps compared to credit cards, which lowers latency and improves speed and reliability at turnstiles.
I've been using a flip phone (ZTE Cymbal 2) for something like two years now. It cost me $70. I pay $20/month for my plan, which is talk/text and no data. My thoughts: Text conversation is an...
I've been using a flip phone (ZTE Cymbal 2) for something like two years now. It cost me $70. I pay $20/month for my plan, which is talk/text and no data. My thoughts:
Text conversation is an awful experience, but I'm alright with this because I only want to use my phone to coordinate in-person connection.
Not having data sucks because people regularly send images or MMS messages that I can't view, but I don't care enough to pay the extra money.
It runs some old version of Android, some parts of the UI are a bit janky and not very well tested.
Admittedly, I still have a Pixel 3a that I use for actual android stuff, music etc. By my phone is just a phone and I really don't feel like I'm losing out on anything by not having 5G internet access at all times.
$70 for a non-smartphone is a price that makes sense to me. I could totally see why someone would want to use a flip phone especially in the context of curbing their screen time. But some of these...
$70 for a non-smartphone is a price that makes sense to me. I could totally see why someone would want to use a flip phone especially in the context of curbing their screen time. But some of these prices for "dumbphones" are kinda shocking to me... seems like the minimalist aesthetics and people's strong desire to change their habits are adding an awfully big upcharge.
I know I've been there. I've spent money on products I hoped would change my life. When you're looking for relief you'll spend anything.
fwiw if you find the right MVNO you can definitely get data included for $20/mo to make MMS usable. Might require a bit of commitment (paid up in advance since they're prepaid plans).
fwiw if you find the right MVNO you can definitely get data included for $20/mo to make MMS usable. Might require a bit of commitment (paid up in advance since they're prepaid plans).
I don't know what the prices are supposed to be like in Canada, but that seems like a terrible deal, no? I've seen providers offer 100Gb for 10€/month.
$20/month
I don't know what the prices are supposed to be like in the USCanada, but that seems like a terrible deal, no? I've seen providers offer 100Gb for 10€/month.
I have been using the Minimal Phone (the one with the keyboard in the video) for a few weeks now as my full-time device. There are definitely some bugs and limitations, but I am well versed in the...
I have been using the Minimal Phone (the one with the keyboard in the video) for a few weeks now as my full-time device. There are definitely some bugs and limitations, but I am well versed in the Android space (I used to flash custom ROMs/kernels all the time) and willing to tinker with it so overall I love it. I did not get it to stop "doom scrolling" but it would definitely help with that if that is what you are looking for; I got it for the following reasons:
I need a fully featured smartphone because of work (Teams, etc.)
I want to read more and I have found the convenience of having a book always on me is the best way to encourage me to do so; reading on the e-paper display is 100% better than a normal LCD or OLED screen. In the short time I have had it I have read 2 books, The Way of Kings being one of them
I look at screens enough in my life already, its nice to have something easier on the eyes to use
Feel free to ask any questions, I know its not the cheapest device so I understand why someone might be hesitant to try it out!
Side note: speaking of bugs, I just discovered one with the Three Cheers app for Android on the Minimal phone where for some reason it will not register the space key.
I wonder if the e-ink or otherwise monochrome screens these sorts of devices have are actually necessary. It makes them nice as e-readers, but as shown in the video poses a number of usability challenges.
Maybe just shrinking the screen down and making it an odd aspect ratio would be enough to make social media scrolling and such unappealing. Could be as simple as bringing back the iPhone 3GS/4 design with its small 4:3 screen or making a similarly sized phone with a 1:1 square screen and physical keyboard.
Color-capable e-ink screens are already a thing, and I don’t think it will be terribly many more years before they’re capable of “phone quality” (maybe some more colors than 5-6, and higher refresh rates, and more sizes and shapes) at consumer prices.
(I’m kind of a huge e-ink fan, but
for the most part because of the battery and outside/in bright light readability implications.)
I don't think we're ever going to get fast enough refresh rates with them to ever make them feel like a phone screen. Scrolling is just not pleasant in them, and never will be with this technologies.
I want an e-ink phone for things like browsing tildes, playing music, making phone calls, texting, viewing pictures my family text me. But it breaks down with Instagram and YouTube will never be practical.
Isn’t that what people (and by people I mean people who are in the market for dumb phones) want? It can do essentials like pay for parking tickets, but is miserable for social media.
It’s a device where the path of least resistance in terms of entertainment is… to read paginated content.
A screen like the Playdate’s might be a good alternative to e-ink. It’s a one-bit screen with no lighting, but it’s capable of some pretty complex graphics. They just released an app that features streaming video, for example.
Anything capable of streaming video is capable of streaming brainrot. I'm definitely with the people saying that crappy refresh rates are a feature for a human centric phone.
I had never heard of that device before, but they market it as Memory LCD which is what my Pebble smartwatch used. That tech is good for low power draw, with almost no power used when not refreshing. It did look really good with animations, too. My Pebble's big downside was low light readability, but it had a pretty poor front light implementation. They seem to mainly be small screen, and low DPI, not that I have a big problem with that. Color hardware was possible, too.
I am personally infatuated with color eink screens, myself. I have a Kobo ereader that I adore. I prefer the higher resolution clarity to the smoothness of a Memory LCD myself, but we're all going to have different priorities with this stuff.
I am reading your comment from a device with an e-ink screen capable of fluidly playing video. 60 Hz, I believe.
Take that as you will. ;)
Also, it can play video. But for me so far the issue mostly hasn’t been the b&w, but rather the poor contrast caused by it. I legitimately can’t see content well, especially for videos defaulting to “dark mode” backgrounds (and white/light text on top)… not that I’m trying to primarily use it for watching video, anyway.
Seems like a cool device, I hadn't personally seen it before now, thank you for sharing.
I had to look up the display technology, it sounds like it's a large format reflective LCD. Seems like a good technology for a tablet, and would probably be more functional for a dumb phone than e-ink.
The refresh rate looks amazing, but the poor contrast is disappointing. I've long wanted a device like this for reading manga. Sadly, the contrast isn't good enough to carry whatever "pop" the artist originally intended with the simple palette.
Yeah, I was aware with my purchase that I’d be part of the “first gen” buyers on whom it is to report & help iron out any kinks… Which is something I normally try to avoid as much as possible (with both hard- and software), but here, curiosity got me. :P
Apps use color to draw you in. Lots of people change their screen to grayscale to help them spend less time on their phones. It does create usability issues but I feel like some amount of friction is part of the point.
There are phones now that are basically old style flip phones but run some form of android. Look up the CAT S22. They look like they might be almost as much a pain in the ass as an e-ink phone, just for different reasons.
I don’t doubt that, but I’d hate to have those usability issues crop up in pure-utility use cases, with a slim chance that it becomes an impediment to something urgent. Using a regular phone and switching color off situationally (perhaps automated if you’re fancy) seems like the better move.
Flip phones are kind of interesting except I don’t think I could make the switch to numpad typing for texting. It’s not something I ever did since I didn’t have a cell phone at all up until uni, when I got an iPhone 3GS.
I have an iPhone 15 which lets you rebind the mute button to toggle the grayscale on and off. It's nice for when you need to quickly look at something that requires color context like maps.
That’s a really good use of the button. I suspect most people don’t flip their phones off of mute basically ever.
iOS has had a custom keyboard API for many years now, I think the better part of a decade. A lot of people use GBoard and SwiftKey instead of the stock keyboard for example.
I’ve toyed with it myself and there’s no technical reason why a T9 virtual keyboard shouldn’t be possible. Keyboards can take up as much or little screen space as they like and are given access to the text field the user currently has highlighted, so custom keyboards don’t even need to act like traditional keyboards and can be more general text manipulators, should the dev desire to do so. The only real limitation is that the system doesn’t allow custom keyboards to access password fields and falls back to stock for those for security reasons.
Password managers are a first class citizen too. There is a password manager api (not quite as old as the keyboard api). They can autofill password fields directly, even in browsers. And browsers, including the stock safari, support extensions, so you can have the password managers interact with the page with JavaScript.
You'd be surprised. I tend to alternate between iOS and Android when I upgrade phones (currently Android) and there really isn't that much of a difference anymore. It's mostly down to UI/UX preferences and little walled garden stuff. But honestly whatever freedom Android provides goes largely unused by me.
You’ll need to sign into an Apple account to use the App Store and such, but it’s not super pushy about using iCloud. Just go into the iCloud section under the account pane in Settings and flip everything off. The only thing that might get annoying is if you want to back up your phone, you’ll have to do those periodically on your computer.
The stock apps (Mail, Calendar, Reminders, Notes, Contacts, etc) are all built around standard IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV, etc so you don’t even necessarily need to replace those if you don’t want to. Just sign into a third party provider (like I do with FastMail) and you’re golden. This is actually a sticking point for me on Android — there, the Gmail app can act as a generic email client but no such luck for calendar, reminders, notes, etc if you’re not interested in Google’s services. You have to hunt down good non-service-specific apps for all of those categories.
When I (briefly) used a Unihertz Jelly as my primary phone I downloaded a T9 keypad because typing was just impossible on such a tiny QWERTY, but without the feedback of physical buttons using the T9 was much more difficult.
I'm not adding any new information here, but wanted to reference that last month @IsildursBane made a pretty popular thread with his personal experiences on this topic and I'd definitely suggest reading the whole thread!
Link: https://tildes.net/~health.mental/1nyf/my_experience_running_my_phone_in_greyscale_for_the_past_several_weeks
I have not watched this video (due to intentionally avoiding all YouTube coverage of these neo-dumbphones while I am waiting for mine, so that I form my own opinions on it), but I would say greyscale is quite usable. I am still running my phone in greyscale 95% of the time, but there are some occasional usability issues. The most frequent use case that I turn it off for is showing someone a picture on my phone.
My iPhone 4 is still the most comfortable smartphone I've ever owned. I would go back to that form factor in a heartbeat.
4/4S was pretty good, but I’m partial to the 3GS for its soft curved palm-fitting back which also happened to be pretty resilient to drops.
Pretty much zero chance of that coming back though, that kind of curve hasn’t been seen in electronics for a very long time.
That's one of the only complaints I have about my iPhone. The edge digs into my finger and palm after a while which is really uncomfortable
I am using an SE, and while not as curvy as its predecessors, it’s still a small comfortable phone.
I've been critical of these phones but that $400 one that still lets you use Google Play is actually kind of a good idea. I think by literally not letting you smooth scroll or get hooked on short-form video but still giving you an e-ink display for what is an essential utility outside the US (WhatsApp), or whatever other apps is a great idea.
Of course, none of this applies to me as a work-from-home degenerate with access to larger screens at a whim. But it might be good for well adjusted people.
These convoluted, expensive attempts to make functionally worse phones never really made sense to me. I understand that for most people that buy them, the appeal of these devices is that it forces you to not be drawn into your phone as much, but I can't help but feel like thats a bandaid on a bigger problem. Namely, why do you feel the need to occupy your time on your phone so much? What else could you be doing with your time? Do you have hobbies or relationships you'd rather focus on instead?
I view it similar to other addictions. If my job forced me to carry around a pack of cigarettes all day, it'd be annoying, but I wouldn't be tempted to smoke them, because I'm not addicted to cigarettes. Same goes for my phone. If you DO have that temptation, I'd argue that you have some degree of addiction to it, which has some underlying cause.
I've personally never had a real issue with being on my phone too much (other than hating notifications), and I think it's because I prioritize other stuff. I just sort of view any time idly scrolling on my phone as wasted time that I don't derive any enjoyment out of, similar to just sitting at a table and reading the back of a cereal box. I get that not everyone is that way, but the answer to that problem seems like more inner work, correctly identifying values, and tying those values to actions, rather than by buying yet another gadget that will make it hard or impossible to do online banking.
I would think your position that scrolling phones is the same as other addictions should make these devices make more sense. Nobody would argue that someone who's a recovering alcoholic should be carrying around a bottle of booze, or that someone who quit smoking should be carrying around a pack of cigarettes--removing the source of temptation in order to reduce your risk of relapse is a huge part of recovering from addiction.
I view it as carrying around a flask of bathtub gin instead of good whiskey. You're still going to drink it, it will just be unpleasant, and I don't think either one is a great way to beat an addiction.
I mean I would note that the Boox Palma is explicitly not a phone nor sold as a phone. It’s just an e reader with a similar form factor to phones. It doesn’t even have a cellular radio.
I really question the inclusion of the Boox Palma. It’s not a phone. It’s not sold as a phone. It does not have a cellular modem, so it cannot replace your phone straight up. The person in the video had to tether it to their actual phone.
I’m not surprised that person said “no” wrg to whether or not they felt it was a good experience.
The other phone was interesting - it seems like it’s just missing good manufacturing, with signal drop offs and NFC failures highlighted in the video.
So I've been using a Qin F21 Pro for the past month or two, and I do think it helps.
It runs Android and has a tiny touchscreen, but it has a physical number pad.
I have found that it absolutely helps with the doom scrolling and constant connectedness, without sacrificing my personal necessities like Spotify, Google Maps, Android Auto, and my Audiobooks.
The T9 keyboard matched with the tiny screen that barely any apps seem to be made for, means that I can still browse Reddit from time to time, but I can't engage with it like I can on a full smart phone. I can read headlines and stay up to date, but I can't like respond easily or get lost in the comments.
So it's dumb enough to kick the doomscrolling and urges to stare at my phone when I'm bored, but smart enough to not cut me off completely.
I'd be curious about the E-Ink dumb phones though. I do like the idea, but they tend to be more expensive. The one I have was around $150 a couple years ago, so it doesn't break the bank.
I think their challenges and their expectations really highlight how forcefully integrated the Android/IOS duopoly is and how everything needs to be an app. I have a tap to pay solution with infinite battery capacity that just works better that a phone ever will, it is called a credit card.
Why in hell would someone get a phone like this and use it for video or social media? The e-ink is perfect for reading and there is massive amount of free material and further massive amount of paid material, one of them was using an actual e-reader.
To be honest phones like these don't really appeal to me. Smartphones do have actual utility, the sw designed for them is simply overloaded with addictive elements which are better simply avoided. As with ads, no one is actually immune but they still have the agency to realize that and mitigate as and when possible. It is just than most no one bothers.
And finally these were not actual dumbphones. One was a straight up e-reader that happens to run Android and the second was a limited Android.
And there’s no reason the person in the video couldn’t have used a credit card either. It was just for comedic effect.
Well, yeah, that’s the point. They incentivize you to read. The point is to not use social media, unless absolutely necessary.
The tap to pay on transit bit varies regionally. I don’t think credit cards work for my local transit and know they don’t in Japan. Both use dedicated cards instead, and the benefit to using phone/watch digital versions is that they can be reloaded on the fly (on iOS, right in the native Wallet app without even having to use a probably-bad third party app or website) so I don’t need to stop at a ticket machine or physical shop that can reload the card.
If you set these digital cards as your primary transit cards, they continue to work even if your phone has run out of power, too.
It does baffle me why places implementing tap-to-pay for transit don't all make it work with credit/debit cards. I was able to use mine when in Lisbon and it was so convenient.
Transaction fees, complexity, and financial benefit.
The first two are combined. If you accept credit cards, then you’ll have to pay visa/mc/amex their share of interchange. Additionally, the integration becomes much more complex, since you add at least one more party (if you delegate to a single company to handle payments), and potentially up to 6 (if you handle all the rails yourself).
In some locales, credit and debit cards may not be as accessible as in the US. In Japan, for instance, you have to apply… for debit cards. For some reason.
Finally, the transit card model is financially advantageous. It’s just like gift cards. Transit companies effectively get an advance on payment, since people will pay for higher amounts of credits and then gradually spend them.
I forget where I read it but if I recall, transit IC cards also eliminate several processing steps compared to credit cards, which lowers latency and improves speed and reliability at turnstiles.
I've been using a flip phone (ZTE Cymbal 2) for something like two years now. It cost me $70. I pay $20/month for my plan, which is talk/text and no data. My thoughts:
Admittedly, I still have a Pixel 3a that I use for actual android stuff, music etc. By my phone is just a phone and I really don't feel like I'm losing out on anything by not having 5G internet access at all times.
$70 for a non-smartphone is a price that makes sense to me. I could totally see why someone would want to use a flip phone especially in the context of curbing their screen time. But some of these prices for "dumbphones" are kinda shocking to me... seems like the minimalist aesthetics and people's strong desire to change their habits are adding an awfully big upcharge.
I know I've been there. I've spent money on products I hoped would change my life. When you're looking for relief you'll spend anything.
fwiw if you find the right MVNO you can definitely get data included for $20/mo to make MMS usable. Might require a bit of commitment (paid up in advance since they're prepaid plans).
I don't know what the prices are supposed to be like in
the USCanada, but that seems like a terrible deal, no? I've seen providers offer 100Gb for 10€/month.telecom in canada is basically the worst
I have been using the Minimal Phone (the one with the keyboard in the video) for a few weeks now as my full-time device. There are definitely some bugs and limitations, but I am well versed in the Android space (I used to flash custom ROMs/kernels all the time) and willing to tinker with it so overall I love it. I did not get it to stop "doom scrolling" but it would definitely help with that if that is what you are looking for; I got it for the following reasons:
Feel free to ask any questions, I know its not the cheapest device so I understand why someone might be hesitant to try it out!
Side note: speaking of bugs, I just discovered one with the Three Cheers app for Android on the Minimal phone where for some reason it will not register the space key.