So they discontinued the Mini because it’s apparently too small to have good battery life, and now they’re releasing a phone that’s got the same battery space limitations but none of the overall...
So they discontinued the Mini because it’s apparently too small to have good battery life, and now they’re releasing a phone that’s got the same battery space limitations but none of the overall compactness. I kind of see why some people will like it, but seriously Apple, if you’re going back down that route you really can’t just release an actually small phone as well?
They discontinued it because it sold poorly. Battery life is one part of that, but given the way that big screens won so decisively in the Wild West of the android market, I suspect the small size...
They discontinued it because it sold poorly. Battery life is one part of that, but given the way that big screens won so decisively in the Wild West of the android market, I suspect the small size of the screen was a bigger issue.
It's sad because the 13 mini sold extremely well by Android standards. But Apple only wants products with mass market appeal - except in the case of the Vision Pro for some unknown reason.
It's sad because the 13 mini sold extremely well by Android standards. But Apple only wants products with mass market appeal - except in the case of the Vision Pro for some unknown reason.
Well, it sold well by Google standards maybe. Roughly speaking the 13 mini sold ~6m, which is fairly bad by Apple or Samsung standards. But moreover, there is an opportunity cost - the mini...
Well, it sold well by Google standards maybe. Roughly speaking the 13 mini sold ~6m, which is fairly bad by Apple or Samsung standards.
But moreover, there is an opportunity cost - the mini versions use much if not most of the same components of the other iPhone models. If they're by far the worst selling ones, it only makes sense to redirect those components to the phones that people prefer.
The vision pro is a new market segment. It doesn't directly take from the iPhone product line, and it's somewhat expected that a new product line can have mixed sales - that was true of the apple watch, but it found its niche eventually.
There is value in making products like the vision to prevent yourself from being Nokia or Blackberry - unwilling to experiment, and ultimately destroyed within a few years by Apple themselves. It's a hedge, essentially.
Nokia allegedly killed internal development on a touchscreen smartphone similar to the iPhone in 2005 because they were afraid it would compete too much with their existing products. They thought...
Nokia allegedly killed internal development on a touchscreen smartphone similar to the iPhone in 2005 because they were afraid it would compete too much with their existing products.
They thought they were untouchable and stopped innovating. This is pretty much inevitable at any tech company that starts listening more to lawyers and accountants than actual tech people.
There's a markedly big difference between the Kodak maneuver Nokia did (Kodak also killed their digital cameras to stop them from cannibalizing film sales) and the iPhone minis literally being...
There's a markedly big difference between the Kodak maneuver Nokia did (Kodak also killed their digital cameras to stop them from cannibalizing film sales) and the iPhone minis literally being released for two years and selling by far the worst.
Trust me, if the iPhone 13 mini had USB-C I would have bought that in a heartbeat. But they were still using lightning. So here I am with a 15 Pro.
I'm not accusing Apple of pulling a Kodak maneuver here. I genuinely think the 12/13 mini iPhones failed in the market place because those of us who like small phones are not as big of a market as...
I'm not accusing Apple of pulling a Kodak maneuver here. I genuinely think the 12/13 mini iPhones failed in the market place because those of us who like small phones are not as big of a market as we think we are.
I also don't think Lightning was a major barrier to iPhone adoption. When the port was first introduced in 2012, it was a major improvement over the micro-USB ports common on Android phones at the time. It wasn't until USB-C became ubiquitous that Lightning began to feel like a hindrance. Getting a USB-C iPhone was actually mildly annoying for me because I already had 10 years worth of Lightning cables in all the places I charge my phone.
oh no the lightning was a me problem. i absolutely hated how they dragged that particular corpse all the way to 2023 when every other portable thing i had used USB C
oh no the lightning was a me problem. i absolutely hated how they dragged that particular corpse all the way to 2023 when every other portable thing i had used USB C
Tbh I think the new "mini" format will eventually be the clamshell foldable, when apple decides to invest in that. Thst gives the best of both worlds with a normal phone that can compress itself...
Tbh I think the new "mini" format will eventually be the clamshell foldable, when apple decides to invest in that. Thst gives the best of both worlds with a normal phone that can compress itself to half its size in your pocket/purse. It might even have a nostalgia factor for the millennial audience.
It's going to take a very long time to get bendable displays to last as long as slab phones. Right now, they're a wear part. A lot of users have then fail within 1-2 years. Even if you're careful,...
It's going to take a very long time to get bendable displays to last as long as slab phones. Right now, they're a wear part. A lot of users have then fail within 1-2 years. Even if you're careful, all it takes is a single grain of sand or some dust to kill them.
IMO I don't want a thicker square in my pocket. My 13 mini is well sized so that it doesn't get in my way when I run, bike, bend over, or sit down in a comfy chair. A lot of small phone enthusiasts strongly prefer durability over flashiness.
I don't think it has to last as long as a slab phone. I think we're beyond the "switch phones yearly" trend, but you'll see that even a well taken care of slab phone will probably be switched out...
I don't think it has to last as long as a slab phone. I think we're beyond the "switch phones yearly" trend, but you'll see that even a well taken care of slab phone will probably be switched out in 3-4 years, even if the hardware can probably last more around 5-7 years. If it can get to that point, I think people will flock to it.
A lot of small phone enthusiasts strongly prefer durability over flashiness.
That's a benefit of a clamshell, though. it naturally protects its screen when folded up. Much less vulnerable to having coins other pocket items scratch up the sceen. The main factor is whether or not the screen itself is duable enough for X0000 bends.
But if the form factor is too thick for you, I understand. I feel like that's the one area where this obsession with thinness can come in handy one day (I prefer a better battery than making a phone 4mm thick or whatever. Especially since apparently we need 6mm of camera anywa)
No it doesn’t. The clamshell phones leave a slight gap when they close because, if they didn’t, closing it with a grain of sand inside would crack the screen. But then that gap with a grain of...
That's a benefit of a clamshell, though. it naturally protects its screen when folded up
No it doesn’t. The clamshell phones leave a slight gap when they close because, if they didn’t, closing it with a grain of sand inside would crack the screen. But then that gap with a grain of sand inside when it compresses will scratch the shit out of the screen. They’re naturally quite fragile. It is genuinely surprising how much sand and random dirt can end up in a jeans pocket.
That’s not to say it couldn’t work. The latest Google one does meet IPv6 dust proofing standards, but that’s technically only for the inside of the device, not the screen when it’s closed (which is still technically the outside of the device).
I think a display that bites it after 2-3 years is doable, but only if it’s actually treated as a wear item and replacement is cheap and easy. I feel like batteries ought to be treated the same way. They don’t need to be user replaceable, but they do need to be easily replaceable by the sort of licensed professional that you should be able to find in any medium sized town or mall.
The Vision Pro isn’t its final form though. And I desperately want the end result of this product development exploration, so I can see why they are intent on figuring it out.
The Vision Pro isn’t its final form though. And I desperately want the end result of this product development exploration, so I can see why they are intent on figuring it out.
The vision pro is apple being desperate to innovate. They know that phones are stale, and Apple is fundementally a phone company that makes a few computers and other things. Phones haven't done...
The vision pro is apple being desperate to innovate. They know that phones are stale, and Apple is fundementally a phone company that makes a few computers and other things.
Phones haven't done anything interesting or new in... I don't know, 10 years? Every phone that comes out is just a slightly faster version of the one that came out before it. Speed doesn't even really matter anymore either. So if a phone is a phone, and you don't really need I keep buying one every two years, where does that leave apple?
They're looking for their next iPad or earpod, and they haven't quite found it yet, but they're desperate for it. Without it, the company is going to slowly decline to being just some other commodity manufacturer instead of the 3rd most valuable company in the world. They're not like Microsoft has retooled itself to be where they can survive forever off of entrenched subscription costs from businesses, or like Amazon where basically everyone does all of their shopping through them.
Their business model requires them to sell a lot of phones, and phones aren't interesting or exciting, and haven't been for some time.
I’m going by the party line I’ve heard from a few people at Apple, but yeah, in reality I’m sure it’s a sprinkle of that with a whole scoop of them not liking the sales numbers without wanting to...
I’m going by the party line I’ve heard from a few people at Apple, but yeah, in reality I’m sure it’s a sprinkle of that with a whole scoop of them not liking the sales numbers without wanting to explicitly say “y’all aren’t a big enough market for us to care about”.
The Air just kind of shines a light on that fact, and it’s very annoying because there are basically no good, small phones - either Android or Apple. There are a few tens of millions of us, the response to comments like this always suggests I’m not alone in really wanting an option here, and it just kinda sucks that the answer is “eh, you’ll still buy a bigger phone eventually if we force you to, so deal with it”. It’s just business, I know, and it’s an extremely first world problem - but it also seems like a Mini SKU on a three year cycle wouldn’t be that onerous to ask for.
[Edit] Come to think of it, physical size was also enough to get me to switch ecosystems entirely, which as I understand it is relatively rare for customers to do. I used and preferred Android for at least a decade (still do prefer it in some ways) but the iPhone Mini was the last bastion of one-hand-usable phones when my venerable Pixel 4 finally gave up so that’s what I bought.
I have a sneaking suspicion that manufacturers are looking at the much higher percentage of the market that prefers large phones, but underestimating how much a preference for small phones will absolutely dominate the purchasing decision for those of us who want one.
I used to be team 'mini phones', thinking big phones were gargantuan and grotesque — until I got a big phone. Now I'm on team 'big phones'. Modern life happens through our phones, and having the...
I used to be team 'mini phones', thinking big phones were gargantuan and grotesque — until I got a big phone.
Now I'm on team 'big phones'. Modern life happens through our phones, and having the extra screen real estate makes everything significantly easier. I'm often find myself researching restaurants, looking up hiking trails, pulling up legal or event ticket pdfs, reading an eBook when I'm on a bus, and so on.
Still firmly team 'mini phone'. And I'm not talking 3.5" Chinese nano phone, 5" bezel-less was always the perfect size. Now 6" is the new "compact". I hate it - love everything else about my Pixel...
Still firmly team 'mini phone'. And I'm not talking 3.5" Chinese nano phone, 5" bezel-less was always the perfect size. Now 6" is the new "compact". I hate it - love everything else about my Pixel 8, but the screen is to large to comfortably one-hand everything.
having the extra screen real estate makes everything significantly easier
This is true, of course. But going from 5" to 6.5" or 7" doesn't actually give you all that much real estate. Not enough to meaningfully run apps side-by-side. Not enough to use the often-superior desktop version of a site. Not enough to give you a quick way to switch between open tabs. In the end, "real" research (restaurants, hiking trails, ect.) needs 14" - and a keyboard.
pulling up legal or event ticket pdfs, reading an eBook when I'm on a bus, and so on.
Never had a problem with that on my 5" phone. And I did the majority of my reading on public transit on that screen. But I have 20/20 vision and a steady hand...
But now see there are many people for whom their phone is Their Computer: they don't own a laptop or desktop. They do everything on the phone: banking, shopping, reviewing and signing contracts,...
In the end, "real" research (restaurants, hiking trails, ect.) needs 14" - and a keyboard.
But now see there are many people for whom their phone is Their Computer: they don't own a laptop or desktop. They do everything on the phone: banking, shopping, reviewing and signing contracts, etc. When they think of A Computer, they think of the phone.
Many Tildes users grew up desktop-first and then later got a phone. But there many people—especially in newly middle-class countries—whose first foray into consumer tech is the (smart)phone.
It's why some years ago iOS transitioned to doing on-device restore, no longer requiring connecting to desktop iTunes. And why—outside of the US where middle-class consumers are used to doing 'serious' tasks on a personal home computer—do-everything apps like WeChat have become so big.
I’m in the same boat. Earlier this year I finally took the gamble of going with the biggest phone that Apple sells, from the smallest (iPhone SE -> iPhone 16 pro max) and I agree with all of your...
Never had a problem with that on my 5" phone. And I did the majority of my reading on public transit on that screen. But I have 20/20 vision and a steady hand...
I’m in the same boat. Earlier this year I finally took the gamble of going with the biggest phone that Apple sells, from the smallest (iPhone SE -> iPhone 16 pro max) and I agree with all of your points. It’s not big enough to run two apps, and even if realistically it could based on pixel density, too many UI decisions these days just try to add too much blank space around everything anyway.
I have great eyesight, so when I switched I did notice that the new phone was not only physically bigger, but also decently higher pixel density (going from 326 ppi to 460 ppi if the stats pages are correct) and honestly if I could have got an iPhone with the higher pixel density and tiny bezels on the older form factor, I might have been tempted to stick with the smaller one.
For now, I think I’ll continue this experiment to see if the larger size that requires two hands to type will ever feel as effortlessly natural as the smaller size, or if I eventually ditch it and go back to whatever the smallest option is. That said, the extra fancy cameras are pretty nice…
Same. It only took a few days with my new, bigger phone, to get 100% used to it and enjoy the bigger size. It can be annoying that I can't reach the whole screen without using both hands, but...
Same. It only took a few days with my new, bigger phone, to get 100% used to it and enjoy the bigger size. It can be annoying that I can't reach the whole screen without using both hands, but that's quickly forgotten about. Everything else is just much more comfortable on a bigger screen.
I do understand why some people still prefer smaller phones although I'd also guess that most of them haven't tried a bigger phone for more than a few minutes?
I haven't, but I can't think of a use case in my life currently where a larger screen would be beneficial and I wouldn't be able to jump to using a different device better suited for the job. When...
I do understand why some people still prefer smaller phones although I'd also guess that most of them haven't tried a bigger phone for more than a few minutes?
I haven't, but I can't think of a use case in my life currently where a larger screen would be beneficial and I wouldn't be able to jump to using a different device better suited for the job.
When I'm on a commute around the city it's a benefit to be able to use my phone one-handed if I need to stand on the bus/train and hold on to something with the other. I prefer listening to podcasts rather than looking at my phone during those times so screen size is irrelevant, but I also don't have any problems reading text.
If I'm on a flight or longer train trip it's no problem to pack my aging iPad which still works fine for shows and movies and is significantly larger than any phone. If I'm stationary somewhere and want to get anything done beyond passively checking Tildes, Bluesky, or Discord, then I have my laptop open most of the day because I want a physical keyboard and better window management.
I know a lot of people essentially live on their phones these days but I'm not one of them. I don't use Tiktok or similar short-form video platforms and the only mobile game I play is the gacha hell known as Fate/Grand Order where screen size isn't meaningful.
Didn't consider different devices! Definitely many use cases between all of these sizes, you're right. I only have my 6" iPhone 13 or a 27" desktop computer. Only if I go proper traveling do I...
Didn't consider different devices! Definitely many use cases between all of these sizes, you're right. I only have my 6" iPhone 13 or a 27" desktop computer. Only if I go proper traveling do I dust off my 14" laptop. But I rarely do. So more than 99% of the year, it's between the phone and the big stationary at home, no in between haha
Off-topic a bit: I was also in a gacha hell (AFK Arena) for a long time and I'm happy to report I finally found something better to play with Pokémon Go. Although I live in the middle of a city so I have tons of resources all the time so that's the only reason it's playable every day. Could not be said for when I lived in the suburbs back when it came out 9 years ago. Basically unable to play it back then unless you had it open on the phone the whole time and made it your 1 activity. Right now it's oftentimes just passively logging walking distance through the iOS health app that it imports when next you open the game.
After thinking about it some more, if I didn't have a laptop available then I'd probably consider a larger phone for myself to aim for the middle ground. As it is I don't mind spreading things out...
After thinking about it some more, if I didn't have a laptop available then I'd probably consider a larger phone for myself to aim for the middle ground. As it is I don't mind spreading things out across a bunch of devices, particularly since Apple's made that convenient with continuity features; I can easily bring a site I had on my phone to my computer, or write some text on my laptop then paste it on my phone.
I enjoyed Pokémon Go when it launched (the public parks in Boston had spontaneous hangouts of people all playing it) but fell off from that as I found myself staring at my screen too much when walking around. I've subsequently given a few other games along those lines a try but nothing stuck, and hearing about updates from friends who are still into PoGo hasn't given me an urge to return to it.
I've gradually gotten used to each phone I've bought over the years... Except the pixel 7 pro, which is 6.7" phone and after 3 years of ownership feels too big still. I have a Pixel 8a also as a...
I've gradually gotten used to each phone I've bought over the years...
Except the pixel 7 pro, which is 6.7" phone and after 3 years of ownership feels too big still. I have a Pixel 8a also as a work phone and switching between the two on a daily basis the size of the 8a is preferable for me.
As I get older and my eyesight is getting worse, I like a larger screen so I can have some larger text, but still able to see a decent amount of data at once.
As I get older and my eyesight is getting worse, I like a larger screen so I can have some larger text, but still able to see a decent amount of data at once.
Despite a massive push to make phones basically mandatory it is still possible to minimize their use. Personally I prefer to do that when possible as the experience is simply not good, both...
Modern life happens through our phones
Despite a massive push to make phones basically mandatory it is still possible to minimize their use. Personally I prefer to do that when possible as the experience is simply not good, both because of sw and form factor.
This is true, but I’m increasingly becoming team cellular Apple Watch with the phone staying in a bag if I really need it. I guess that’s team “big phone” since, at that point, the size doesn’t...
Modern life happens through our phones
This is true, but I’m increasingly becoming team cellular Apple Watch with the phone staying in a bag if I really need it. I guess that’s team “big phone” since, at that point, the size doesn’t really matter. But I’m growing to resent the amount of time and attention the phone sucks out of me.
Another reason why some of us strongly prefer small phones! When I had a bigger phone (and even that was small by modern standards), I found it WAY too easy to essentially... fall into the screen...
Another reason why some of us strongly prefer small phones! When I had a bigger phone (and even that was small by modern standards), I found it WAY too easy to essentially... fall into the screen and disappear for tens of minutes at a time. Often with no recollection of what the hell I had done! A smaller phone makes it harder for me to get 'sucked in', but it's hard to say exactly why.
But it makes me very hesitant to upgrade to a larger phone: if I already have the smartphone equivalent of cocaine, why would I want to upgrade to the equivalent of crack?
For a while I used to keep my phone in a wallet that snapped shut with two snap buttons. I found even that tiny amount of friction was enough to reduce my screen time by some crazy amount. The...
For a while I used to keep my phone in a wallet that snapped shut with two snap buttons. I found even that tiny amount of friction was enough to reduce my screen time by some crazy amount. The temptation to pull it out when, for example, waiting in line for something went away instantly.
Eventually the phones got too big to fit and that company went out for business so I went back to normal cases and the habit crept back in. I think the only thing I really missed was inability to select music and podcasts without taking it out of the wallet.
That’s still a bit of a problem with the Apple Watch, but mostly because it’s hard to differentiate between interacting with files ON the watch vs. the watch being used as a control interface for the phone as they beam audio to my wireless earphones.
Tbh I think the small phone people just overestimate how many of them there are. Many manufacturers have experimented with small phones now and they just don’t pan out. The data is there. If there...
but underestimating how much a preference for small phones will absolutely dominate the purchasing decision for those of us who want one.
Tbh I think the small phone people just overestimate how many of them there are. Many manufacturers have experimented with small phones now and they just don’t pan out. The data is there. If there was some trove of small phone lovers, we’d know.
I was meaning that for those of us who do want one, it's the number one criterion - as in, I didn't even particularly want an iPhone but I bought one anyway because of the Mini. So I'm less...
I was meaning that for those of us who do want one, it's the number one criterion - as in, I didn't even particularly want an iPhone but I bought one anyway because of the Mini. So I'm less suggesting that it's a large group, more that it's a group with a very strong preference.
In terms of numbers, yeah, a few tens of millions of users seems to be about the shape of it based on Apple selling about 6M units per year when the Mini was still current, and people replacing their phones on a 3-4 year average timeline.
I get that 20M users isn't massive, certainly not by Apple's standards, but my hypothesis is that any company making a small phone will immediately get pretty much all of those 20M potential users. I see it as a small but safe bet, whereas I think the manufacturers have been expecting it to be larger (and therefore being disappointed) as well as underestimating the buyer loyalty (and therefore being more willing to cut the lines).
If that were true, it would show in the statistics. The number of android to iPhone switchers during the 12 mini and 13 mini were not particularly high. Nor do small android phones enjoy this...
So I'm less suggesting that it's a large group, more that it's a group with a very strong preference.
If that were true, it would show in the statistics. The number of android to iPhone switchers during the 12 mini and 13 mini were not particularly high. Nor do small android phones enjoy this supposed die hard fanbase sales.
There have been no high quality, even near flagship level small android phones for years. The last were probably the Pixel 5 and 4a, or debatably the Xperia Compact line. All enjoy a serious...
There have been no high quality, even near flagship level small android phones for years. The last were probably the Pixel 5 and 4a, or debatably the Xperia Compact line. All enjoy a serious markup in the used market thanks to their small size.
I'm not sure we have enough information about mini users to draw the conclusions you seem to be drawing. I understand your skepticism, but you feel a little too ready to shoot down ideas about small phones.
It's niche, and definitely not for everyone, but I'm very excited about the BlackBerry Q20 revival that's currently in progress [0]. If your goals are "small size and not-gimped hardware", it...
physical size was also enough to get me to switch ecosystems entirely
It's niche, and definitely not for everyone, but I'm very excited about the BlackBerry Q20 revival that's currently in progress [0]. If your goals are "small size and not-gimped hardware", it might be worth a look. Reasonable specs & camera, running up-to-date Android, in a properly-small size
Planning on sticking with my 13 Mini for at least another year, battery's starting to show its age a bit but that can be replaced. Doesn't even seem like there's a comparable Android model out...
Planning on sticking with my 13 Mini for at least another year, battery's starting to show its age a bit but that can be replaced. Doesn't even seem like there's a comparable Android model out there with decent specs and a small size or I'd consider switching despite being mostly in Apple's ecosystem these days.
It feels rough to ride or die my 13 mini after "ride or die" on my 2016 SE for so many years. But it seems the modern phone industry hasn't figured out that some people just don't want a big...
It feels rough to ride or die my 13 mini after "ride or die" on my 2016 SE for so many years. But it seems the modern phone industry hasn't figured out that some people just don't want a big screen or a big brick.
It’s insane how few choices there are for smaller phones. When I got my iPhone 15, it was begrudgingly after doing a ton of research and finding out that it was basically the smallest phone I...
It’s insane how few choices there are for smaller phones. When I got my iPhone 15, it was begrudgingly after doing a ton of research and finding out that it was basically the smallest phone I could get that supports 5g and has USB-C and a half decent camera. The only other choice was the Zenfone 10, which is only marginally smaller and is a markedly worse phone. Despite me getting my 15 early last year, I almost wish I had bought the iPhone 13 mini anyways, but too late now. I think I’ll stay on this one until it literally no longer functions, but if apple made another mini, I would buy it.
I had my previous phone before the 13 mini for 8 years. I wont mind having this one for as long too, but I am scared that there wont be a replacement even after all that time.
I had my previous phone before the 13 mini for 8 years. I wont mind having this one for as long too, but I am scared that there wont be a replacement even after all that time.
I'm not super into the "small phone" thing or anything but I just got the battery replaced on my 13 Pro. The phone feels basically as good as new now. For me, USB-C charging is maybe the only...
battery's starting to show its age a bit but that can be replaced
I'm not super into the "small phone" thing or anything but I just got the battery replaced on my 13 Pro. The phone feels basically as good as new now.
For me, USB-C charging is maybe the only upgrade I care about on newer iPhones but I'll probably just keep this and eventually switch to a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS (assuming it's still supported) whenever this thing dies for real.
My SE3 is likewise has “they can take it from my cold dead hands” status. I definitely need to get an aftermarket battery replacement though, my capacity is down to 75%
My SE3 is likewise has “they can take it from my cold dead hands” status. I definitely need to get an aftermarket battery replacement though, my capacity is down to 75%
Given the failure of the Plus, I'm hoping that we'll someday return to a small screen phone. Honestly I would love a 17e mini, even. Just one phone option below a 6" screen (or more importantly,...
Given the failure of the Plus, I'm hoping that we'll someday return to a small screen phone. Honestly I would love a 17e mini, even. Just one phone option below a 6" screen (or more importantly, below 14cm height) would make all the difference.
I wonder if an ideal world is a 2 year flip-flop between "big screen, skinny" and "small screen, fat"?
I think a non-annual new model like the SE had would be ideal for most people that want those kinds of phones, they probably aren't going to go out and swap it for the new model the next year...
I think a non-annual new model like the SE had would be ideal for most people that want those kinds of phones, they probably aren't going to go out and swap it for the new model the next year (probably one reason why the 13 Mini didn't sell as well with a lot of its target audience already on the 12 Mini).
Interestingly the Air doesn't have the 17 attached to it so maybe they learned and won't refresh it as often as the base model.
I'm on a 12 mini that is technically brand new because the Apple store fucked up in my favor... but yeah, I'm hoping to ride with this until we get an iPhone 28 mini or whatever.
I'm on a 12 mini that is technically brand new because the Apple store fucked up in my favor... but yeah, I'm hoping to ride with this until we get an iPhone 28 mini or whatever.
...i've never had to stop and recharge my 12 mini, although i typically plug it in overnight every day or two... ...i keep an ipad pro for heavy lifting at home, so my typical phone loads away...
...i've never had to stop and recharge my 12 mini, although i typically plug it in overnight every day or two...
...i keep an ipad pro for heavy lifting at home, so my typical phone loads away from home comprise a couple of hours of video conferencing, a couple hours of browsing, + six to eight hours of music; my heaviest use case is occasional site photography, which does drain the battery pretty quickly but is generally heat-limited more than anything else...that said, i make a point to close power-hungry applications and i never travel overnight without carrying a charging cable, neither of which i bothered with for my iphone 6, which often managed a week between charges albeit under a much lighter use case...
...regardless, i'm tracking to keep my 12 mini at least as long as my 6, until the next compact phone comes around...
I wish I kept the mini. I hate how big these phones are and how few options exist out there for decent small phones. I'd even consider switching to Android if, say, the Pixel came in a small size.
I wish I kept the mini. I hate how big these phones are and how few options exist out there for decent small phones. I'd even consider switching to Android if, say, the Pixel came in a small size.
They discontinued the mini because sales were terrible. It makes me sad too, I loved my 12 mini. People who like to use their phone with one hand are apparently a very small market.
They discontinued the mini because sales were terrible. It makes me sad too, I loved my 12 mini. People who like to use their phone with one hand are apparently a very small market.
The Air is getting the most attention, but to be honest I think the most significant aspect of today's announcement is that the base model iPhone finally has a 120 Hz display. Also I think the 17...
The Air is getting the most attention, but to be honest I think the most significant aspect of today's announcement is that the base model iPhone finally has a 120 Hz display.
Also I think the 17 Pro is hideous. But the Pixel-derived camera bar on the Air looks good to me.
Edit:
Oh I also just realized the flagship iPhones are no longer made with titanium as they were with the 15 Pro and 16 Pro models. The Air is now the only phone in the current lineup made with a titanium body.
IMO the Air looks more like the Nexus 6P. Except with an extra annoying camera protrusion on the mesa. Agreed about the Pro, though. I love the orange color, but god damn that two-tone mesa-with...
IMO the Air looks more like the Nexus 6P. Except with an extra annoying camera protrusion on the mesa.
Agreed about the Pro, though. I love the orange color, but god damn that two-tone mesa-with bump back looks awful to me. Are they trying to push people to the non-Pro? And no black option to boot, only navy blue?
The orange seems divisive but I really like it. It looks like the same tone as the orange highlight button on my black Watch Ultra 2, which I also like. I hope this is the beginning of a trend of...
The orange seems divisive but I really like it. It looks like the same tone as the orange highlight button on my black Watch Ultra 2, which I also like. I hope this is the beginning of a trend of bolder colors like we used see in iMacs and iPods. The only thing like that in a long time were the Product(RED) models, which were also pretty cool.
More split on the design of the phone itself but I’ve seen worse.
As a sometimes-user of Apple products (phone, one particular Apple Silicon computer) I'm just consistently not a fan of a lot of their direction as a company, its a begrudging relationship for me...
As a sometimes-user of Apple products (phone, one particular Apple Silicon computer) I'm just consistently not a fan of a lot of their direction as a company, its a begrudging relationship for me as it is with mostly any "big tech", so most of the alternatives would be just as annoying. I think I'll use my 14 Pro until it becomes completely unusable. I'm so glad it doesn't run most of their AI shtick either. Sick of their obsession with "thinness" and other garbage. They do a number of things exceedingly well, while at the same time doing things that are endlessly frustrating
Can't lie, the iPhone Air is very intriguing IMO. Personally I would love a phone with the same screen size but lighter, and this seems like it. I'll have to wait until reviews to see how much the...
Can't lie, the iPhone Air is very intriguing IMO. Personally I would love a phone with the same screen size but lighter, and this seems like it. I'll have to wait until reviews to see how much the battery life is sacrificed, but it's definitely something I'm considering more than either the 17 and 17 pro.
The gap between the 17 and 17 pro went down quite a lot this gen. It's almost just the camera + USB3 speeds on the port. So the 17 pro seems very much like a "creator" camera, product segmentation wise.
I didn’t watch the actual presentation, but if this is the case, then it’s actually pretty funny. It means that we have now basically circled back to phones with replaceable batteries, just that...
I didn’t watch the actual presentation, but if this is the case, then it’s actually pretty funny. It means that we have now basically circled back to phones with replaceable batteries, just that the actual phone has a “reserve battery” built in.
I’m somewhat facetious, and I realise this was likely not Apple’s intention, but it strikes me as a pretty funny side effect.
There are some important differences: A sealed design is necessary for water resistance. A removable battery requires a lot space: space for locking/release mechanisms, and a redundant inner wall...
There are some important differences:
A sealed design is necessary for water resistance.
A removable battery requires a lot space: space for locking/release mechanisms, and a redundant inner wall that protects the internals from the battery compartment. An internal battery frees up that precious space to either make the phone thinner/smaller/lighter or make the battery bigger.
Modern phone batteries + efficient processors means that with moderate usage you will get 1–1.5 days of battery life, so most modern phone users don't need a recharge. But heavy habitual (you watch lots of TikTok videos on the train) or situational (you're traveling and taking lots of video and photos) use can bring that down to 0.5 days battery life, so then you can just slap on this little battery backpack and bam, you've got the other half of the day covered.
Also, that being said, many modern phones have both USB-C and Qi charging—their chargers are ubiquitous—so people are frequently topping up their charge at the office, in restaurants, in the car, at friends' homes, etc. It's very different from the days when there are like 100 different proprietary charger cable types so you couldn't rely on finding your phone's type outside the home. If my phone battery is low and I'm out and have forgotten mine, I'll often just ask the gym reception desk or restaurant waitstaff to charge my phone for me.
The sealed design isn't actually necessary for water resistance. The Galaxy S5, the last set of Casio G'Zone phones, and the Kyocera smartphones have all had water resistance while having...
The sealed design isn't actually necessary for water resistance. The Galaxy S5, the last set of Casio G'Zone phones, and the Kyocera smartphones have all had water resistance while having user-reaceable batteries. Locking backs and good gaskets are all that's really required.
Of course, if one is still insistent on super thin devices, then sure, that becomes harder, but still not impossible (again, see the S5).
Getting me out of lurk mode for this... I'm surprised that, even with some tech content creators pointing this out, apple refuses to change this "feature" of the base model but the screen is a...
USB3
Getting me out of lurk mode for this...
I'm surprised that, even with some tech content creators pointing this out, apple refuses to change this "feature" of the base model but the screen is a start. Is the average consumer really unaware that their flashy phones are using a connection that's over 20 years old? I guess they're listening since marquess always complained in his videos about the screen.
Boring history
USB3 was released ~15 years and that's what the pro models use. Apple doesn't even list the actual speeds nor the specific standard--is this a 3.0, 3.1 gen1? Looks like it's 3.1 gen1 but I'm too listless to search into this and that's not the point.
Anyways I suspect this comment will attract more responses like the comment I made about their computer/tablets but I'll say it anyways. It feels as if Apple hasn't updated their phones since 2012 (lightning connector released), specially when their base models are still using USB2 (circa 2000). There's definitely been improvements to their components and it's not a deal breaker but are their executives that desperate to push for pro sales that they refuse to update this part?
Back to phones
As usual the max pro models seem to fill that niche audience that uses the device in production. Air looks awful but maybe that's what people want; R.I.P.
Well, yeah, 99% of iPhone users will not use the port for anything but charging. The main use case where you would want file transfer over cable is content creators grabbing video files. The...
Is the average consumer really unaware that their flashy phones are using a connection that's over 20 years old?
Well, yeah, 99% of iPhone users will not use the port for anything but charging. The main use case where you would want file transfer over cable is content creators grabbing video files. The iPhone pro also can record directly to SSDs.
I don't think I've ever used my iPhone 15 Pro's USB 3 port for data transfers. All of the photos and videos I record get stored in iCloud so even that won't need to go over a cable.
I don't think I've ever used my iPhone 15 Pro's USB 3 port for data transfers. All of the photos and videos I record get stored in iCloud so even that won't need to go over a cable.
You're probably right but then why offer this on the pro models and why not just have this be exclusive to the pro max models? This also reminds me of the argument for the high refresh rate...
You're probably right but then why offer this on the pro models and why not just have this be exclusive to the pro max models? This also reminds me of the argument for the high refresh rate displays which is that people "don't care" or use the feature. I'm curios about what changed their mind on the display.
For some reason Apple only ever comes up on TikTok if someone is upset about them. I swear that yesterday people were acting like the new iPhone models murdered their family.
For some reason Apple only ever comes up on TikTok if someone is upset about them. I swear that yesterday people were acting like the new iPhone models murdered their family.
lots of people on the internet think that the epitome of activism is being angry at premium toys for not being cheap enough this applies to video games as well
lots of people on the internet think that the epitome of activism is being angry at premium toys for not being cheap enough
The Switch 2 outrage was incomprehensible to me. I understand the increase puts it out of some people's range of affordability and it's okay to be upset about that. But social media encourages...
The Switch 2 outrage was incomprehensible to me. I understand the increase puts it out of some people's range of affordability and it's okay to be upset about that. But social media encourages people to take any feeling and make it either 10/10 good or 10/10 bad.
That's probably just your own algorithm though right? Either using the app on an android phone which then recommends ragebait to you based on that alone, or maybe you've watched some tech stuff...
That's probably just your own algorithm though right?
Either using the app on an android phone which then recommends ragebait to you based on that alone, or maybe you've watched some tech stuff about other companies than Apple and then again it recommends you engagement bait. I don't have TikTok but I do use Instagram and I have an iPhone and I can't say I've ever seen that type of content!
Social media algorithms are a helluvadrug and kinda scary.
The thickness of that camera bump on the 17 Air is as thick as the phone's body, looks crazy from the side! Also, how sharp is it gonna feel in the hand? My 13 always leaves a kind of dent in my...
The thickness of that camera bump on the 17 Air is as thick as the phone's body, looks crazy from the side! Also, how sharp is it gonna feel in the hand? My 13 always leaves a kind of dent in my palm when I use it for more than like 15-20 minutes at a time and it even becomes a little sore after like 30 minutes or more. Hope they go back to more rounded edges in future.
Think I can safely keep that 13 for now anyways. Still working perfectly fine although I'm a little bit nervous about it becoming too slow from further software updates.
I am not the target audience for this (even though the show the other duopolist puts on might change at least part of why) so IDK. Especially the Air is truly ugly and I suspect the camera bump...
I am not the target audience for this (even though the show the other duopolist puts on might change at least part of why) so IDK. Especially the Air is truly ugly and I suspect the camera bump causing that might be actual problem for everyday use.
I know I gripe in the wrong place but why is there not even a single mainstream phone model that prioritizes actual utility? Do people truly care about the fractions of a milimetre less thickness with every model, especially when that comes with smaller battery, camera bump and excuses how removable battery and ports have to be sacrificed for it? The things that actually matter for everyday usage.
Here's what I want from my phone I want it to have a screen large enough to comfortably use touch UI I want it to have a beautiful screen with a high refresh rate I want it to have a fast enough...
Here's what I want from my phone
I want it to have a screen large enough to comfortably use touch UI
I want it to have a beautiful screen with a high refresh rate
I want it to have a fast enough SoC that I can run applications and games that I use
I want it to feel good in the hand as a handheld device
I want to it to have a great and versatile camera
What I don't care about
Micro-SD card slot. I didn't use it even when I had a galaxy s3 and galaxy s8.
Removable battery. Only thing that ever did for me was explode out of the phone when I dropped it. Don't really care
Headphone jack - for the form factor of a phone I would only ever use wireless headphones
Smooth back (e.g lack of camera bump). Just never really bothered me. Personally I never use my phone while it's laying on something so the rocking is a non-issue.
So for me, the current phones are very high in utility. They do well on the things that matter for my everyday use, what can I say.
Everyones use case and preferences are different but in the current market only the side that centers around preferences you wrote about wins. There is massive lack of choice around fundamentals...
Everyones use case and preferences are different but in the current market only the side that centers around preferences you wrote about wins.
There is massive lack of choice around fundamentals in the smartphone market and I don't personally think any perceived lack of market demand is the root cause.
As a sidenote I have sadly given up on removable battery for now but more battery life has value of its own.
I think everyone can have their subjective preferences, but my point is more that statements like implies that the things that I and the many people with those preferences prioritize are not...
I think everyone can have their subjective preferences, but my point is more that statements like
I know I gripe in the wrong place but why is there not even a single mainstream phone model that prioritizes actual utility?
implies that the things that I and the many people with those preferences prioritize are not "real", and that somehow the people who want SD-cards and flat backs and whatever are more "real" in some way. Which I do not think is the case.
I suppose it could be taken that way. In any case I simply prioritize different kind of utlity in likely different circumstances and was completely ignored along with anyone else with those...
I suppose it could be taken that way. In any case I simply prioritize different kind of utlity in likely different circumstances and was completely ignored along with anyone else with those preferences for decade or more and I am not particularly enthusiastic about that. I also admit I do consider the current trends over specializing but it is in a direction I don't care about already.
I also don't think these preferences are incompatible even on a single device but I probably could have written it a less combative tone.
I assume that a large part of the cause for market convergence into the modern smartphone is the cost of R&D. It's so much cheaper to just take the panel that Samsung is offering at a discount...
I assume that a large part of the cause for market convergence into the modern smartphone is the cost of R&D. It's so much cheaper to just take the panel that Samsung is offering at a discount because they plan to make 300,000,000 of them than to ask for a custom smaller part with the same functionality. Repeat for all other parts in the phone.
The Air looks cool. Except for the large camera bump, which I know is unavoidable. But I just got a 16 Pro earlier in the year to replace my former 13 Pro. So I'm not upgrading anytime soon....
The Air looks cool. Except for the large camera bump, which I know is unavoidable. But I just got a 16 Pro earlier in the year to replace my former 13 Pro. So I'm not upgrading anytime soon. Ideally, next one will be in 3-4yrs.
17 Pro in Orange is certainly a choice. Kinda surprised they don't have a black or at least dark gray option. Though the Deep Blue is nice.
Why is the bump unavoidable? I was eyeing the Air because I want a lighter phone, but then I saw the bump... one bump, then a second for the camera. Why not at least just one bump? Anyway... I...
Why is the bump unavoidable? I was eyeing the Air because I want a lighter phone, but then I saw the bump... one bump, then a second for the camera. Why not at least just one bump? Anyway... I have a 15 Pro so can't justify the upgrade anyway.
Just the physics of lenses and the desired quality level. You can have thinner lenses but the quality would suck. This is because there’s basically an acceptable ratio between the sensor size and...
Just the physics of lenses and the desired quality level. You can have thinner lenses but the quality would suck. This is because there’s basically an acceptable ratio between the sensor size and the lens distance, so if you want the lens distance short you can’t have a very large sensor, and the public has decided they need a certain quality level for their instagram posts. You could have original iPhone level (2 megapixel) cameras with no bump in a modern thin form factor, but nobody would accept that.
However! There is practical research going on in the field of metalenses which are basically flat materials that have weird internal structure that redirects light more efficiently than a regular curved piece of glass. These could ultimately remove the bump, but aren’t quite there yet.
At first I assumed it would rest on a table like a Pixel does but it looks like the second bump actually protrudes far enough that it still wobbles when laid down.
At first I assumed it would rest on a table like a Pixel does but it looks like the second bump actually protrudes far enough that it still wobbles when laid down.
Little side-bar: the iPhone Air was actually on the ABC national news tonight. Kinda wild to me to see a product announcement get a spot on the already-crowded national news.
Little side-bar: the iPhone Air was actually on the ABC national news tonight. Kinda wild to me to see a product announcement get a spot on the already-crowded national news.
Despite closely following the leaks, it's cool to see the final products. I'm surprised by how loud the orange on the Pro models really is. I do like the new design, just wish they made the lenses...
Despite closely following the leaks, it's cool to see the final products.
I'm surprised by how loud the orange on the Pro models really is. I do like the new design, just wish they made the lenses flush with the plateau, much like how Google did with the Pixels. Apple really seem to have taken thermals seriously with this generation of Pro. The vapor chamber combined with the aluminum unibody should cool the A19 Pro really well and keep the chassis cool as well. I'm not a serious enough photographer or videographer to appreciate the camera improvements, besides the square selfie sensor which is cool. I do think my favorite of the Pro color is the silver+white combo surprisingly enough, it really brings me back to the Apple designs of the late 2000s like the original Mac mini and the original Apple TV.
The regular 17 seems like the value play here. You get a proper LTPO 1-120Hz OLED display, good enough dual camera system, compact-ish chassis, and I think the best colors of all iPhones announced this event. I love the green and the purple. I'd be interested in seeing how this device holds up.
The Air is an interesting device overall. I was skeptical of the S25 Edge when it came out earlier in the year but I sorta understood the hype when I first held the device at Best Buy. It's kinda unreal holding a super thin device with a big screen. I can definitely see this device being engineering practice in a way for Apple's rumored upcoming folding iPhone. I also do wonder what battery life will be like. I know the S25 Edge struggles with battery but I think Apple can optimize their way to some half-decent battery life.
I know this article focuses on the iPhone but the Airpods really caught my attention. I have the USB-C Airpods Pros 2 from 2023 and they've held up fantastic and the ANC is surreal at times. I can't imagine what improving on this ANC would be like, it might give my WH-1000XM4s a run for their money.
I was considering replacing my 12 Pro this year but looking at the price (£1340 for the base 17 Pro with AppleCare with theft coverage for 2 years) I think I'll run my 12 Pro until it dies.
I was considering replacing my 12 Pro this year but looking at the price (£1340 for the base 17 Pro with AppleCare with theft coverage for 2 years) I think I'll run my 12 Pro until it dies.
Another year without a smaller phone (iPhone mini). In the era of Instagram and TikTok, there seems to be no appetite for Apple to make happy the people who don't care about large screens, who...
Another year without a smaller phone (iPhone mini). In the era of Instagram and TikTok, there seems to be no appetite for Apple to make happy the people who don't care about large screens, who just want something usable that fits COMFORTABLY in a pocket, that doesn't feel like a dumbbell when you have a case on it, that doesn't require a purse or sling or fannypack to COMFORTABLY carry around.
The modern smartphone is a electronic rectangular pancake that is more akin to a ball and chain than to a device that allows me to feel free and express myself. More a vehicle for ad distribution and cheap dopamine fixes than a proper tool to communicate with people.
The focus seems to be on making sure the camera rivals a DSLR. Do we not have enough pixels? How many more is "enough"? Between 17, 17 Pro, and 17 Air, can't one of these have no bump, be smaller, cheaper, and still a decent phone? Apparently not.
I'd gladly switch to Android, even though it would be a pain to move all my stuff to the Google ecosystem, but they don't have a small phone either. There are some odd Android brands on Amazon that I have no idea how good they are. There are the minimalist phones that try to market to me... they look good, but sacrificing that much functionality feels like an extreme compromise.
F Apple. F Google. F smartphones. I'm gonna leave it all behind and move to a cabin in the woods and be eaten by a bear. A better outcome than living under the tutelage of these big tech companies for another 40-50 years.
I increasingly feel the same. Maybe someday there will be enough of us to create a market opportunity, if the government ever decided to start enforcing antitrust laws again. Unfortunately the...
I increasingly feel the same. Maybe someday there will be enough of us to create a market opportunity, if the government ever decided to start enforcing antitrust laws again. Unfortunately the Apple/Google platform duopoly makes it way too hard for another entrant to offer the bare minimum apps for most use cases (especially since Google owns the most popular navigation stack and Apple owns the most popular messaging stack, and most social media these days barely exists in a broken format outside of mobile apps). But if enshittification gets bad enough I could see something minimal taking off.
In the meantime, I'll pray for an iPhone 17e mini. At least on iOS I can keep things simple and only use on-device AI features I actually like, like transcriptions, translations, and OCR.
Some of the privacy and on-device processing options have been one of my own reasons to stick to Apple and turn a blind eye to some of the things I dislike. For now I’m sticking to the 15 pro… see...
Some of the privacy and on-device processing options have been one of my own reasons to stick to Apple and turn a blind eye to some of the things I dislike. For now I’m sticking to the 15 pro… see what else they release over the next few years. At least the pro shops remain functional for a while even if it’s larger and heavier than I’d like.
In March/April this year, I was on the fence about buying a new phone. My previous phone was holding up fine, so it wasn’t urgent, and I was tossing up between getting the 16 Pro Max or holding...
In March/April this year, I was on the fence about buying a new phone. My previous phone was holding up fine, so it wasn’t urgent, and I was tossing up between getting the 16 Pro Max or holding off until the 17 was announced.
Ultimately I decided to go for the 16 mostly because I wanted nicer cameras before heading to a festival, so I could take lots of photos while I was there. I was even considering getting the 16 and then upgrading to the 17 as soon as it came out, since I know there’s a trade-in/upgrade program if your phone is still in good condition.
Seeing the hideous 17 Pro Max I am so glad I jumped on the 16, and I will not be considering upgrading until the phones look half decent again. I could even forgive their lack of black/grey option if it was basically a single colour all over, but that horrible two-tone back panel and the mismatched colours around the raised section are so ugly to me.
Air looks cool but it also feels like an in-between product before they eventually release a foldable phone. One half of a future product, if you will.
Air looks cool but it also feels like an in-between product before they eventually release a foldable phone. One half of a future product, if you will.
I have a 14 Pro in purple currently. I was hoping that something this year would be a good purple color. I really want to get lightning out of my life, but there isn’t really anything compelling...
I have a 14 Pro in purple currently. I was hoping that something this year would be a good purple color. I really want to get lightning out of my life, but there isn’t really anything compelling about the new phones. They are good, but I don’t think I would use any of the fancy features.
Instead of upgrading my phone, I think I might grab the new watch ultra. I have an S8, and the battery needs to be replaced. The satellite and longer battery of the ultra might get me to upgrade. And the titanium Milanese loop is apparently pretty good. Even with a new battery, my watch would run through the battery pretty fast on long runs or kayaks. Last kayak trip, the battery only lasted a few hours from a full charge. Hmmm.
Anyone have insights for someone debating moving from a Pixel 8a to the apple ecosystem? My main use-cases are: Maps navigation Public transit when traveling CarPlay vs Android Auto Music I'm on...
Anyone have insights for someone debating moving from a Pixel 8a to the apple ecosystem? My main use-cases are:
Maps navigation
Public transit when traveling
CarPlay vs Android Auto
Music
I'm on Windows and my music library is local (flac, mpg, ogg, opus, etc.). I'm looking to copy without converting/iTunes.
Browsing the web
How is the adblocker experience? I understand browsers are essentially a wrapper around safari, so there's no extensions.
Privacy. This one is like choosing degrees of evil. An advertising company vs whatever it is that apple does. Right now I think apple is the lesser evil, but I have nothing to substantiate this claim.
Will answer what I can: Google Maps runs fine on iOS (and even gets features before the Android version does sometimes), but I use Apple Maps because it works fine in major urban areas and I...
Will answer what I can:
Google Maps runs fine on iOS (and even gets features before the Android version does sometimes), but I use Apple Maps because it works fine in major urban areas and I prefer it
Maps and Wallet/Apple Pay have worked fine for me with public transit. All iPhones support the payment standard used with Japanese public transit whereas only Japanese Android devices do that, which is neat.
No opinions here, only used CarPlay personally but they seem basically equivalent to each other. Based on friends’ anecdotes it seems like AA might be more picky about USB cables?
The stock Music app supports local music fine. As far as I know you’ll still need the Apple Music for Windows app or iTunes for that, though. There are third party music players that you should be able to copy music to through their icon when plugging your phone on but I haven’t tried any of them.
Safari does support extensions on both macOS and iOS, including adblockers. Blockers aren’t quite as capable as uBlock Origin and are similar to uBlock Lite in functionality, but they still work fine enough for me. I use Wipr. There’s also analogues of popular extensions like Stylus (user style css). This is actually a bit better than the situation with Chrome for Android, which has zero extension support.
Thanks. Hearing car integration is more or less equivalent is good to hear. @ogre mentioned AdGuard. I use Firefox (on Android), so I viewed extensions as something installed via browser as...
Thanks. Hearing car integration is more or less equivalent is good to hear.
@ogre mentioned AdGuard. I use Firefox (on Android), so I viewed extensions as something installed via browser as opposed to a separate app. It's much better than nothing.
There are ad blocking extensions for safari, like AdGuard. I use Orion, it ports a few Firefox extensions including uBlock origin. It works well enough.
I understand browsers are essentially a wrapper around safari, so there's no extensions.
There are ad blocking extensions for safari, like AdGuard.
I use Orion, it ports a few Firefox extensions including uBlock origin. It works well enough.
They’re now working on a Linux version too. They’re limited to platforms where WebKit support is good, which for now is macOS, iOS, and Linux. WebKit on Android used to be good but has become...
They’re now working on a Linux version too. They’re limited to platforms where WebKit support is good, which for now is macOS, iOS, and Linux. WebKit on Android used to be good but has become derelict after Google shifted the primary web framework in Android to Blink, and support on Windows hasn’t been great ever since Apple gave up on Safari for Windows.
Google Maps is available for on iOS, so your experience could be identical to what you are used to. However I would give Apple Maps a try if you switch. I just really like the user interface of...
Maps
Google Maps is available for on iOS, so your experience could be identical to what you are used to. However I would give Apple Maps a try if you switch. I just really like the user interface of Apple Maps better. Google Maps seems like a UI that Google spent a decade shoving various features into. As a result, it has a lot of features, but the UI is busy and cramped. Especially once a navigation is in progress, the UI should get out of my way, and Apple Maps does a better job of this. As for transit directions themselves, Apple Maps (where transit is supported) seemed to me to have slightly better transit data than Google Maps. Still, if it is available in that city, I would always recommend Citymapper.
Music
Can’t help much, but it should be possible without transcoding. Another option is to spin up plex and use one of the many plex clients.
Browser
Extensions very much do exist, including adblocking extensions. You can even have extensions in safari.
Privacy
Apple is far from perfect, but right now only one company is even giving lip service to privacy, and that is Apple. iCloud accounts even have an end to end encryption mode that encrypts all data backed up to Apple. The mode is called “advanced data protection” if you want to do more research. I am sure a secured iPhone still isn’t as good as graphene OS, but Apple is the only vendor making devices for non-technical users who want privacy.
Interesting stuff, thanks. I'll see if I can "trial" run an iPhone for a week or so. I'm actually using GrapheneOS at the moment, but honestly, I'm using it mostly to sandbox google's stuff (maps...
Interesting stuff, thanks. I'll see if I can "trial" run an iPhone for a week or so.
I'm actually using GrapheneOS at the moment, but honestly, I'm using it mostly to sandbox google's stuff (maps + auto). Not so much to harden against hacking/etc.
Apple actually has a really good return policy. You would have to buy straight from them. I think it’s like 14 days no questions asked returns. Look online for the details. Should be enough for a...
Apple actually has a really good return policy. You would have to buy straight from them. I think it’s like 14 days no questions asked returns. Look online for the details. Should be enough for a short trial run.
My recommendation is to ask a family member or friend to see if you can try their old iPhone.
I've never understood the small phone crowd, and am even a bit annoyed by them. Tiny screens have always been a menace to me. I want to read comfortably, and actually see what I'm watching or...
I've never understood the small phone crowd, and am even a bit annoyed by them. Tiny screens have always been a menace to me. I want to read comfortably, and actually see what I'm watching or playing with some level of detail. What's funny is that phones like the Galaxy Fold don't interest me too much. I can count the number of times I wished I could side-by-side apps on my phone in the last year on about 2 fingers, and that's being generous when one considers how dead simple it is to quickly switch between apps. And for media, a Galaxy Fold's screen ratio means I'm not really getting more screen space in a meaningful way.
I view one-handed use as distracted use. The notion being that the other hand is otherwise unavailable, because what other reason would you have to be so cavalier with your $500+ (usually a lot more these days) device? But since I don't understand the desire at all, the only thing I can think of is people texting while driving.
I know people who miss the days of thinner phones, and the Air will scratch that itch. As long as the battery gets through a day, it will sell incredibly well. iPhone 13 minis, from what I heard, did not get through a day. One thing I can appreciate from the thinner phone crowd is that they don't show up in every single phone thread to moan. And iPhones have been chunky for a while.
So we'll see how that goes. I liked the new Pro phones quite a bit. I don't mind two-tone, and if not for the Pro moniker, there's room to experiment with more playful two tone combinations.
All in all, the updates seemed pretty solid, with my exception being the Airpods Pro 3. Better ANC because of foam tips? I'll pick up some Comply tips. And I think they're straight up lying about needing new earbuds for things like live translation. I'm curious about the new shape, but I won't be getting new buds until at least the 5-series, barring accidents. Solid watch updates, I look forward to the massive leaps when my 8 simply doesn't function anymore.
For context, my phone journey was Galaxy Nexus -> Nexus 5 -> Pixel 2 XL -> iPhone 13 (same screen size as the Pixel 2 XL in a smaller body) -> iPhone 16 Pro Max. I got tired of Google killing services, walling off Android, and putting out lackluster hardware. If they want their users in a walled garden, I might as well go to the nicer garden.
Just because I want a small phone doesn't mean I want to take away your big phone. I just want one option that isn't an offbrand unsupported Android phone with no security updates and poor US band...
Just because I want a small phone doesn't mean I want to take away your big phone. I just want one option that isn't an offbrand unsupported Android phone with no security updates and poor US band support.
I prefer to use my phone one-handed most of the time because I mostly use it for communication, music, and navigation. I don't need two hands for most of those things. I never watch videos on my phone, and I wear glasses, so a big screen has zero appeal. The most important feature of a small phone is that it actually fits in my shorts pockets. I'm not tall, and I'm pretty skinny, so there isn't much space there. I really just want a phone that fits my size.
These use case arguments make little sense as a defense for a small phone. For music and navigation, I need zero hands. Once the album or playlist or destination is selected, I'm not still holding...
These use case arguments make little sense as a defense for a small phone. For music and navigation, I need zero hands. Once the album or playlist or destination is selected, I'm not still holding my phone. So what if I hold my phone with two hands to pick the music that's playing for the next hour or more? Sounds like a micro-optimization with no actual benefit. For navigation, a bigger screen is a clear winner. The last thing I want to be doing is craning or squinting to see when that turn is coming up. For communication, a larger screen is really nice. Not just for text input, but video calls. Or use swipe features, even on large phones, the keyboard can be shrunk and put to one side. It's again moot. These arguments don't really work.
I also wear glasses. I fail to see the correlation.
I also don't recall saying anything about my phone being taken away. I do recall stating how annoying it is to see small phone people in every phone article throwing themselves a pity party. Small phones have been given more than their fair shake in the market, and the market responded.
You want something that fits in your pocket? What's wrong with a Z Flip or a Razr? Too thick? Would you have actually been okay if the iPhone 13 were as thick as it needed to be for good battery life? Big hint, it'd be a lot closer to the thickness of the foldable.
More generally, I always hear about never watching videos and/or loathing social media. So why not a flip phone? They can do music, calls, and texting just fine. Or I always hear about the "right tool for the job." So buy a dedicated music player to go with your flip phone. And carry an e-reader while you're at it, and a tablet. And a laptop, according to comments here. Carry all of those so you can have your small phone. I'll stick with my big phone.
Take it down a notch, friend. I personally want something that doesn't exist. I'm sure the small phone pity parties are very annoying, but please remember that you live in a world where...
Take it down a notch, friend. I personally want something that doesn't exist. I'm sure the small phone pity parties are very annoying, but please remember that you live in a world where practically every phone caters to your taste.
I just want something that meets my needs and fits comfortably in my pocket. It's frustrating that my 13 mini, which easily meets my battery needs, has no successor, especially since I'd like to switch to USB-C.
You know what's more annoying than small phone lovers lamenting the death of small phones? Small phone lover haters trying to shove much too large slabs or much too brittle foldables down my throat. You're just like all the people who said I'd get over the headphone jack if I embraced bluetooth, or that Face ID is better than TouchID, or who insisted that the butterfly keyboard was an improvement just because it was new. Some of us just have different preferences. I respect yours, and hope the market continues to meet your needs. Please respect mine.
Small phone people being annoyed at my posts is peak hypocrisy to me. Your level of annoyance, as evidenced by the desire to respond, is what small phone people do in every phone article. And...
Small phone people being annoyed at my posts is peak hypocrisy to me.
Your level of annoyance, as evidenced by the desire to respond, is what small phone people do in every phone article. And you’re saying I should just accept it or not be bothered by it, and that small phone people are just fine as-is.
I’m not more annoying, I’m just as annoying. And the fact that you don’t like my posts here is a perfect demonstration of my point. We’re supposed to be talking about what was actually announced, but count how many top-level comments are complaining about no small phones instead.
You’re also hanging out in the wrong circles if people were trying to convince you about the butterfly keyboard. Or are these out-of-pocket comparisons just part of the proselytizing as well? There’s been at least one wild claim or correlation in every rebuttal.
I can understand both sides. From the perspective of someone who uses their phone a lot, a big screen is nice (which is why I’ve been using Plus and Pro Max variants since the iPhone 6, with...
I can understand both sides.
From the perspective of someone who uses their phone a lot, a big screen is nice (which is why I’ve been using Plus and Pro Max variants since the iPhone 6, with exception to the X).
From the perspective of someone who wants their smartphone to take a more auxiliary role, much as they did for most people from 2007-2014 or so, something like a modern iPhone 3GS/5S sounds amazing — lighter, more pocketable, less likely to become a distraction.
As far as ease of reading goes, I think that has more to do with screen panel quality and DPI. Generally small models have suffered here, with the larger models getting the primo panels that are easy on the eyes.
There are a lot of reasons for one-handed phone use beyond distracted use though. I read on my phone and I like holding a cup of coffee in my other hand. Sometimes I use it for recipes and only...
There are a lot of reasons for one-handed phone use beyond distracted use though. I read on my phone and I like holding a cup of coffee in my other hand. Sometimes I use it for recipes and only one hand is clean. Sometimes I'm petting my dog while I'm sending texts. Some people have smaller hands or joint pain that can make large phones tricky even with two hands. Some people only have one hand. Some people are sick of having their phone fall out of their tiny, tiny pockets constantly but also appreciate the convenience of modern smart phones and view the smaller screen as a worthwhile trade off.
None of these reasons are texting and driving. I'm glad a larger screen is helpful for you! It's great that you have so many options available for that. It can also be kind of a bummer to be part of a group that doesn't have any options to have their needs met. Sure, the market has decided these products don't need to exist, but as an individual human bean, that doesn't mean that need goes away; inconveniently, my body and lifestyle don't change to match the market. Maybe instead of being annoyed by a pity party, just recognize that there is a group of people trying to advocate for something that would be a better fit for them, wish them good luck, and then move on to the other comments visible on your large screen.
It's not advocating, though. It's a pity party. They're simply not the same. And the thing is I don't have large hands. Probably average for a male of average height. And the big secret is that I...
It's not advocating, though. It's a pity party. They're simply not the same.
And the thing is I don't have large hands. Probably average for a male of average height. And the big secret is that I don't always hold my phone with both hands. I can do things (yes, less things, but things nonetheless) with one hand. Like read, or text. My grip has had to adjust over the years, but iOS at least provides plenty of ability to do things one-handed, and pop sockets and the like aren't brand new things.
What stops you from adopting the pinkie shelf grip, using a pop socket-like grip, or shrinking your keyboard and putting its entirety within reach of your thumb? While an extra thing, iOS offers a gesture to bring the top half of the screen to the bottom half.
But I've found it's this no compromise approach with small phone people. "Real phones for real people, but only exactly like this and if anything is different I will throw a fit." If the Z Flip were as fragile as small phone people claim, it wouldn't be as succcessful as it is. I will admit its service percentage is probably higher, but it's not as bad as small phone people make it to be. If it's not the fragility, now it's too thick. It's always something. I've even heard people say that Apple set the iPhone 13 Mini up to fail, ignoring the reality of physics.
Why do I have to be the one to adapt, and not you? Why do I have to make accommodations, and not you? Again, this is putting it all on me. You're just saying, "I can complain all I want, and you're the one that needs to deal with it." You deal with it, and stop dragging everyone along.
We all have to adapt to something somewhere, a UI designers choice, a hardware designers choice. Having more options available wouldn't be dragging anyone down, its just more options that you can...
Exemplary
Why do I have to be the one to adapt, and not you?
We all have to adapt to something somewhere, a UI designers choice, a hardware designers choice.
Having more options available wouldn't be dragging anyone down, its just more options that you can choose from.
If the 'pity parties' annoy you to such an extent, give them a cursory glance and skip over them, they will keep existing. Try not to get yourself annoyed at something so small, it will only get big if you give it the attention and emotions.
May I recommend you take your own advice? Give my posts a glance and skip over them. They will keep existing. This thread is only big because of the attention it’s being given. Again, I shouldn’t...
May I recommend you take your own advice? Give my posts a glance and skip over them. They will keep existing. This thread is only big because of the attention it’s being given.
Again, I shouldn’t be the only one to adapt or change. Thanks for making my point.
This is the weakest argument I’ve seen yet. Point to where I’m being an absolutist. I’m just giving small phone people a taste of their own medicine by airing my grievance in public. My grievance...
This is the weakest argument I’ve seen yet. Point to where I’m being an absolutist. I’m just giving small phone people a taste of their own medicine by airing my grievance in public. My grievance is not an absolute stance on phones, it’s an expression of annoyance at small phone people who show up in every phone article and make it about themselves, in the same vein. And the fact so many people find my thread annoying proves my point. Which is that their incessant moaning is annoying.
Per their own words, my thread is perfectly valid and if it’s such a non-issue everyone taking issue with it should just move on and not give it all this energy.
EDIT: Just wanted to point out this also further cements the notion there's always being some out-of-pocket logical leap or wild claim, as I noted elsewhere. This is a random spot, but I'll also point out that I have kept my annoyance talk restricted to my own thread. I'm letting people feel sorry for themselves. Let me be annoyed, maybe? A brand new annoyance has been the amount of people coming into my thread and giving a "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude.
Or maybe I should go into every top-level thread moaning about no small phone and express my annoyance there?
I'm asking you to point out one of these "no compromise" comments. Generally, I've only ever seen the desire paraphrased as "it would be nice if we could have the current slate of phones plus a...
But I've found it's this no compromise approach with small phone people.
I'm asking you to point out one of these "no compromise" comments. Generally, I've only ever seen the desire paraphrased as "it would be nice if we could have the current slate of phones plus a smaller variant". Why are you so mad at that opinion? I don't think I've seen people advocate for removing your option in order to advance theirs.
First, you said: You did not ask me to point out a no-compromise comment. They are very different things, and context clues would have told you as much. But sure, play the burden of proof game....
First, you said:
Point to where the small phone people are saying that the small option should be the only one.
You did not ask me to point out a no-compromise comment. They are very different things, and context clues would have told you as much. But sure, play the burden of proof game. I'll point out that you didn't point out my absolutist comments while we're playing this silly game. Again, this is the rules for thee but not for me attitude.
And you're asking me to distill years of observations and generalizations into a few soundbites? No. My complaint has been general since the beginning, and attemping to shift the posts to limit it to this single discussion is disingenuous. Even so:
One clear example in this discussion was someone suggesting clamshell foldables, which seems like a perfect solution. When closed, the newer clamshells are incredibly useful for quick tasks that small phone people commonly cite. But what was the response? Did anyone say they'd tried it out, or that they would? No, they didn't. "It's too fragile" or "it's too thick" are now the problems. How much more "Not like that" can you get? There's your no-compromise comment.
How many times in this thread do I have to state that I am expressing my own annoyance? And if you read my top comment, you'll see it was an aside. I would much rather be discussing the actual announced products, not the infinite amount of things not announced, and especially not this unnanounced product. I'm not the one who has taken issue and made my thread all about small phones. But I'm also not going to be told to move on, when the very people that I'm annoyed with refuse to do the same. It's a double standard.
And finally and again, what do you care what I think? If you don't mind small phone people complaining, why can't I complain? Take the advice offended small phone people have been giving me. Ignore me and move on. I'll just be over here being grumpy and ignored. Small phone people hate the lack of small phones, I hate that they always make every phone thread about them. Case closed.
Imagine people talking about their dishwashers like this. But let me go on a tangent and offend a whole other crowd, the people who constantly moan about a dumb screen for their TV. Just don't connect it to the goddamn Internet. But no, they insist on complaining in every TV article. They are equally grating.
Nobody is taking away your large phone by the looks of it. Not sure why it annoys you that some people prefer smaller phones. Not everyone uses the phone the way you do. I play zero games, I hate...
Nobody is taking away your large phone by the looks of it. Not sure why it annoys you that some people prefer smaller phones. Not everyone uses the phone the way you do. I play zero games, I hate social media so I don’t watch videos, and text can always be zoomed in or out and adjusted in the settings. If I want games, media, etc I prefer the iPad or laptop or TV. To each their own.
I state pretty clearly why it annoys me. But to be more explicit, I can't read a single article about any phone without small phone people throwing themselves a pity party in the comments, without...
I state pretty clearly why it annoys me. But to be more explicit, I can't read a single article about any phone without small phone people throwing themselves a pity party in the comments, without fail. It's beyond tired. There's clearly not a sufficient market for it.
And how does hating social media equate to watching zero videos? I also hate social media. But I also like watching my shows during lunch. And you think exacerbating the size of the screen by putting even less content on it by zooming in is reasonable?
Just read the proselytizing and evangelizing in this post. It's all the same recycled talking points.
And then that's all before we get into the superiority complex present in your post and all small phone posts. Sure, this time it can be chalked as a response to my strong language, but look at the other threads as well. It's the same holier-than-thou tone.
Superiority complex? Holier than thou? I don’t think so. I’m just annoyed with Apple, and ranting a bit. I don’t think I’m better than others. Ultimately it’s just a phone and by tomorrow I will...
Superiority complex? Holier than thou? I don’t think so. I’m just annoyed with Apple, and ranting a bit. I don’t think I’m better than others. Ultimately it’s just a phone and by tomorrow I will have forgotten about this entire news story and I’ll pick it up again next September. Don’t let these things get to you, it’s not worth it.
To your last point, I might recommend you take your own advice. If it's not worth it, if it isn't getting to you, then why are you already planning on complaining about it next year? Just let it go.
To your last point, I might recommend you take your own advice. If it's not worth it, if it isn't getting to you, then why are you already planning on complaining about it next year? Just let it go.
Have had similar phone upgrade history as you funny enough. Samsung Galaxy S (the first one!) -> Nexus 5 -> Samsung Galaxy A50 -> iPhone 13. Likely going to wait to upgrade until 18 or maybe even...
Have had similar phone upgrade history as you funny enough. Samsung Galaxy S (the first one!) -> Nexus 5 -> Samsung Galaxy A50 -> iPhone 13. Likely going to wait to upgrade until 18 or maybe even 19.
irt. the small phone thing, it's kind of hilarious going back to take a look at my Nexus 5 how tiny it is compared to iPhone 13. The size of it is cute in comparison!
with my exception being the Airpods Pro 3. Better ANC because of foam tips? I'll pick up some Comply tips
Curious about what other thoughts you have on these Airpods! Was gifted a set of 2's a couple of months ago and returned them specifically because I knew 3 would come out soon and wanted to wait for them.
TL;DR: I think the Airpods Pro 3 are going to be a great set of earbuds. It's just a smaller generational leap over the 2s, to the point that I think nearly no one should consider the jump from 2...
TL;DR: I think the Airpods Pro 3 are going to be a great set of earbuds. It's just a smaller generational leap over the 2s, to the point that I think nearly no one should consider the jump from 2 -> 3 outside of factors like loss or damage.
Smart move waiting for the 3s. I've had my Pro 2s for about a year now (so I have a Type-C case). I bought 1st gen Pros the year the Pro 2 was announced (bad timing on my part), and only upgraded because I was able to do a family shuffle. Even with the multi-year generations, I'll just use the buds I have until they no longer function. And when it's time for a replacement, I'll also want the newest thing so I can maximize the amount of time I have to run them into the ground.
It's not that I don't like Airpods Pro, quite the opposite. I watched the announcement, and I found Apple's language to be overly flowery because the upgrade simply wasn't that substantial. Compared to the 1 -> 2 upgrades, 2 -> 3 is less substantial. I can buy good foam tips for my buds today if I wanted to. Comply has been doing compatible memory foam tips for ages now.
Someone in the Ars comments noted that live translation is indeed coming to the Pro 2 line, and you need an Apple Intelligence capbable phone anyway.
The fitness updates, while cool, don't affect me as much right now. Like I said, the most intriguing update is the new shape. I do have issues with longer listening sessions where my buds might slowly slip out. It's not every time; I'm probably a bit oilier/sweatier those days, but if the new shape (and foam) help with that, great!
This would have normally been our phone upgrade year (our upgrade cycle is typically 4 years), but the spouse and I were itching to get off Lightning (we were very cagey about buying too many cables because the switch was imminent) and bump up our storage. So we'll have our 16 Pro Maxes until the 20 or 21 or so.
So they discontinued the Mini because it’s apparently too small to have good battery life, and now they’re releasing a phone that’s got the same battery space limitations but none of the overall compactness. I kind of see why some people will like it, but seriously Apple, if you’re going back down that route you really can’t just release an actually small phone as well?
They discontinued it because it sold poorly. Battery life is one part of that, but given the way that big screens won so decisively in the Wild West of the android market, I suspect the small size of the screen was a bigger issue.
It's sad because the 13 mini sold extremely well by Android standards. But Apple only wants products with mass market appeal - except in the case of the Vision Pro for some unknown reason.
Well, it sold well by Google standards maybe. Roughly speaking the 13 mini sold ~6m, which is fairly bad by Apple or Samsung standards.
But moreover, there is an opportunity cost - the mini versions use much if not most of the same components of the other iPhone models. If they're by far the worst selling ones, it only makes sense to redirect those components to the phones that people prefer.
The vision pro is a new market segment. It doesn't directly take from the iPhone product line, and it's somewhat expected that a new product line can have mixed sales - that was true of the apple watch, but it found its niche eventually.
There is value in making products like the vision to prevent yourself from being Nokia or Blackberry - unwilling to experiment, and ultimately destroyed within a few years by Apple themselves. It's a hedge, essentially.
Nokia allegedly killed internal development on a touchscreen smartphone similar to the iPhone in 2005 because they were afraid it would compete too much with their existing products.
They thought they were untouchable and stopped innovating. This is pretty much inevitable at any tech company that starts listening more to lawyers and accountants than actual tech people.
There's a markedly big difference between the Kodak maneuver Nokia did (Kodak also killed their digital cameras to stop them from cannibalizing film sales) and the iPhone minis literally being released for two years and selling by far the worst.
Trust me, if the iPhone 13 mini had USB-C I would have bought that in a heartbeat. But they were still using lightning. So here I am with a 15 Pro.
I'm not accusing Apple of pulling a Kodak maneuver here. I genuinely think the 12/13 mini iPhones failed in the market place because those of us who like small phones are not as big of a market as we think we are.
I also don't think Lightning was a major barrier to iPhone adoption. When the port was first introduced in 2012, it was a major improvement over the micro-USB ports common on Android phones at the time. It wasn't until USB-C became ubiquitous that Lightning began to feel like a hindrance. Getting a USB-C iPhone was actually mildly annoying for me because I already had 10 years worth of Lightning cables in all the places I charge my phone.
oh no the lightning was a me problem. i absolutely hated how they dragged that particular corpse all the way to 2023 when every other portable thing i had used USB C
Tbh I think the new "mini" format will eventually be the clamshell foldable, when apple decides to invest in that. Thst gives the best of both worlds with a normal phone that can compress itself to half its size in your pocket/purse. It might even have a nostalgia factor for the millennial audience.
It's going to take a very long time to get bendable displays to last as long as slab phones. Right now, they're a wear part. A lot of users have then fail within 1-2 years. Even if you're careful, all it takes is a single grain of sand or some dust to kill them.
IMO I don't want a thicker square in my pocket. My 13 mini is well sized so that it doesn't get in my way when I run, bike, bend over, or sit down in a comfy chair. A lot of small phone enthusiasts strongly prefer durability over flashiness.
I don't think it has to last as long as a slab phone. I think we're beyond the "switch phones yearly" trend, but you'll see that even a well taken care of slab phone will probably be switched out in 3-4 years, even if the hardware can probably last more around 5-7 years. If it can get to that point, I think people will flock to it.
That's a benefit of a clamshell, though. it naturally protects its screen when folded up. Much less vulnerable to having coins other pocket items scratch up the sceen. The main factor is whether or not the screen itself is duable enough for X0000 bends.
But if the form factor is too thick for you, I understand. I feel like that's the one area where this obsession with thinness can come in handy one day (I prefer a better battery than making a phone 4mm thick or whatever. Especially since apparently we need 6mm of camera anywa)
No it doesn’t. The clamshell phones leave a slight gap when they close because, if they didn’t, closing it with a grain of sand inside would crack the screen. But then that gap with a grain of sand inside when it compresses will scratch the shit out of the screen. They’re naturally quite fragile. It is genuinely surprising how much sand and random dirt can end up in a jeans pocket.
That’s not to say it couldn’t work. The latest Google one does meet IPv6 dust proofing standards, but that’s technically only for the inside of the device, not the screen when it’s closed (which is still technically the outside of the device).
I think a display that bites it after 2-3 years is doable, but only if it’s actually treated as a wear item and replacement is cheap and easy. I feel like batteries ought to be treated the same way. They don’t need to be user replaceable, but they do need to be easily replaceable by the sort of licensed professional that you should be able to find in any medium sized town or mall.
This will teach me to type when on a conference call. IP6X lol.
This is a form factor that would actually get me to consider a foldable
The Vision Pro isn’t its final form though. And I desperately want the end result of this product development exploration, so I can see why they are intent on figuring it out.
The vision pro is apple being desperate to innovate. They know that phones are stale, and Apple is fundementally a phone company that makes a few computers and other things.
Phones haven't done anything interesting or new in... I don't know, 10 years? Every phone that comes out is just a slightly faster version of the one that came out before it. Speed doesn't even really matter anymore either. So if a phone is a phone, and you don't really need I keep buying one every two years, where does that leave apple?
They're looking for their next iPad or earpod, and they haven't quite found it yet, but they're desperate for it. Without it, the company is going to slowly decline to being just some other commodity manufacturer instead of the 3rd most valuable company in the world. They're not like Microsoft has retooled itself to be where they can survive forever off of entrenched subscription costs from businesses, or like Amazon where basically everyone does all of their shopping through them.
Their business model requires them to sell a lot of phones, and phones aren't interesting or exciting, and haven't been for some time.
I’m going by the party line I’ve heard from a few people at Apple, but yeah, in reality I’m sure it’s a sprinkle of that with a whole scoop of them not liking the sales numbers without wanting to explicitly say “y’all aren’t a big enough market for us to care about”.
The Air just kind of shines a light on that fact, and it’s very annoying because there are basically no good, small phones - either Android or Apple. There are a few tens of millions of us, the response to comments like this always suggests I’m not alone in really wanting an option here, and it just kinda sucks that the answer is “eh, you’ll still buy a bigger phone eventually if we force you to, so deal with it”. It’s just business, I know, and it’s an extremely first world problem - but it also seems like a Mini SKU on a three year cycle wouldn’t be that onerous to ask for.
[Edit] Come to think of it, physical size was also enough to get me to switch ecosystems entirely, which as I understand it is relatively rare for customers to do. I used and preferred Android for at least a decade (still do prefer it in some ways) but the iPhone Mini was the last bastion of one-hand-usable phones when my venerable Pixel 4 finally gave up so that’s what I bought.
I have a sneaking suspicion that manufacturers are looking at the much higher percentage of the market that prefers large phones, but underestimating how much a preference for small phones will absolutely dominate the purchasing decision for those of us who want one.
I used to be team 'mini phones', thinking big phones were gargantuan and grotesque — until I got a big phone.
Now I'm on team 'big phones'. Modern life happens through our phones, and having the extra screen real estate makes everything significantly easier. I'm often find myself researching restaurants, looking up hiking trails, pulling up legal or event ticket pdfs, reading an eBook when I'm on a bus, and so on.
Still firmly team 'mini phone'. And I'm not talking 3.5" Chinese nano phone, 5" bezel-less was always the perfect size. Now 6" is the new "compact". I hate it - love everything else about my Pixel 8, but the screen is to large to comfortably one-hand everything.
This is true, of course. But going from 5" to 6.5" or 7" doesn't actually give you all that much real estate. Not enough to meaningfully run apps side-by-side. Not enough to use the often-superior desktop version of a site. Not enough to give you a quick way to switch between open tabs. In the end, "real" research (restaurants, hiking trails, ect.) needs 14" - and a keyboard.
Never had a problem with that on my 5" phone. And I did the majority of my reading on public transit on that screen. But I have 20/20 vision and a steady hand...
But now see there are many people for whom their phone is Their Computer: they don't own a laptop or desktop. They do everything on the phone: banking, shopping, reviewing and signing contracts, etc. When they think of A Computer, they think of the phone.
Many Tildes users grew up desktop-first and then later got a phone. But there many people—especially in newly middle-class countries—whose first foray into consumer tech is the (smart)phone.
It's why some years ago iOS transitioned to doing on-device restore, no longer requiring connecting to desktop iTunes. And why—outside of the US where middle-class consumers are used to doing 'serious' tasks on a personal home computer—do-everything apps like WeChat have become so big.
I’m in the same boat. Earlier this year I finally took the gamble of going with the biggest phone that Apple sells, from the smallest (iPhone SE -> iPhone 16 pro max) and I agree with all of your points. It’s not big enough to run two apps, and even if realistically it could based on pixel density, too many UI decisions these days just try to add too much blank space around everything anyway.
I have great eyesight, so when I switched I did notice that the new phone was not only physically bigger, but also decently higher pixel density (going from 326 ppi to 460 ppi if the stats pages are correct) and honestly if I could have got an iPhone with the higher pixel density and tiny bezels on the older form factor, I might have been tempted to stick with the smaller one.
For now, I think I’ll continue this experiment to see if the larger size that requires two hands to type will ever feel as effortlessly natural as the smaller size, or if I eventually ditch it and go back to whatever the smallest option is. That said, the extra fancy cameras are pretty nice…
Same. It only took a few days with my new, bigger phone, to get 100% used to it and enjoy the bigger size. It can be annoying that I can't reach the whole screen without using both hands, but that's quickly forgotten about. Everything else is just much more comfortable on a bigger screen.
I do understand why some people still prefer smaller phones although I'd also guess that most of them haven't tried a bigger phone for more than a few minutes?
I haven't, but I can't think of a use case in my life currently where a larger screen would be beneficial and I wouldn't be able to jump to using a different device better suited for the job.
When I'm on a commute around the city it's a benefit to be able to use my phone one-handed if I need to stand on the bus/train and hold on to something with the other. I prefer listening to podcasts rather than looking at my phone during those times so screen size is irrelevant, but I also don't have any problems reading text.
If I'm on a flight or longer train trip it's no problem to pack my aging iPad which still works fine for shows and movies and is significantly larger than any phone. If I'm stationary somewhere and want to get anything done beyond passively checking Tildes, Bluesky, or Discord, then I have my laptop open most of the day because I want a physical keyboard and better window management.
I know a lot of people essentially live on their phones these days but I'm not one of them. I don't use Tiktok or similar short-form video platforms and the only mobile game I play is the gacha hell known as Fate/Grand Order where screen size isn't meaningful.
Didn't consider different devices! Definitely many use cases between all of these sizes, you're right. I only have my 6" iPhone 13 or a 27" desktop computer. Only if I go proper traveling do I dust off my 14" laptop. But I rarely do. So more than 99% of the year, it's between the phone and the big stationary at home, no in between haha
Off-topic a bit: I was also in a gacha hell (AFK Arena) for a long time and I'm happy to report I finally found something better to play with Pokémon Go. Although I live in the middle of a city so I have tons of resources all the time so that's the only reason it's playable every day. Could not be said for when I lived in the suburbs back when it came out 9 years ago. Basically unable to play it back then unless you had it open on the phone the whole time and made it your 1 activity. Right now it's oftentimes just passively logging walking distance through the iOS health app that it imports when next you open the game.
After thinking about it some more, if I didn't have a laptop available then I'd probably consider a larger phone for myself to aim for the middle ground. As it is I don't mind spreading things out across a bunch of devices, particularly since Apple's made that convenient with continuity features; I can easily bring a site I had on my phone to my computer, or write some text on my laptop then paste it on my phone.
I enjoyed Pokémon Go when it launched (the public parks in Boston had spontaneous hangouts of people all playing it) but fell off from that as I found myself staring at my screen too much when walking around. I've subsequently given a few other games along those lines a try but nothing stuck, and hearing about updates from friends who are still into PoGo hasn't given me an urge to return to it.
I've gradually gotten used to each phone I've bought over the years...
Except the pixel 7 pro, which is 6.7" phone and after 3 years of ownership feels too big still. I have a Pixel 8a also as a work phone and switching between the two on a daily basis the size of the 8a is preferable for me.
It looks like I’m going to have no choice other than testing theory whenever my current phone gives up, so fingers crossed!
As I get older and my eyesight is getting worse, I like a larger screen so I can have some larger text, but still able to see a decent amount of data at once.
Despite a massive push to make phones basically mandatory it is still possible to minimize their use. Personally I prefer to do that when possible as the experience is simply not good, both because of sw and form factor.
This is true, but I’m increasingly becoming team cellular Apple Watch with the phone staying in a bag if I really need it. I guess that’s team “big phone” since, at that point, the size doesn’t really matter. But I’m growing to resent the amount of time and attention the phone sucks out of me.
Another reason why some of us strongly prefer small phones! When I had a bigger phone (and even that was small by modern standards), I found it WAY too easy to essentially... fall into the screen and disappear for tens of minutes at a time. Often with no recollection of what the hell I had done! A smaller phone makes it harder for me to get 'sucked in', but it's hard to say exactly why.
But it makes me very hesitant to upgrade to a larger phone: if I already have the smartphone equivalent of cocaine, why would I want to upgrade to the equivalent of crack?
For a while I used to keep my phone in a wallet that snapped shut with two snap buttons. I found even that tiny amount of friction was enough to reduce my screen time by some crazy amount. The temptation to pull it out when, for example, waiting in line for something went away instantly.
Eventually the phones got too big to fit and that company went out for business so I went back to normal cases and the habit crept back in. I think the only thing I really missed was inability to select music and podcasts without taking it out of the wallet.
That’s still a bit of a problem with the Apple Watch, but mostly because it’s hard to differentiate between interacting with files ON the watch vs. the watch being used as a control interface for the phone as they beam audio to my wireless earphones.
Tbh I think the small phone people just overestimate how many of them there are. Many manufacturers have experimented with small phones now and they just don’t pan out. The data is there. If there was some trove of small phone lovers, we’d know.
I was meaning that for those of us who do want one, it's the number one criterion - as in, I didn't even particularly want an iPhone but I bought one anyway because of the Mini. So I'm less suggesting that it's a large group, more that it's a group with a very strong preference.
In terms of numbers, yeah, a few tens of millions of users seems to be about the shape of it based on Apple selling about 6M units per year when the Mini was still current, and people replacing their phones on a 3-4 year average timeline.
I get that 20M users isn't massive, certainly not by Apple's standards, but my hypothesis is that any company making a small phone will immediately get pretty much all of those 20M potential users. I see it as a small but safe bet, whereas I think the manufacturers have been expecting it to be larger (and therefore being disappointed) as well as underestimating the buyer loyalty (and therefore being more willing to cut the lines).
If that were true, it would show in the statistics. The number of android to iPhone switchers during the 12 mini and 13 mini were not particularly high. Nor do small android phones enjoy this supposed die hard fanbase sales.
There have been no high quality, even near flagship level small android phones for years. The last were probably the Pixel 5 and 4a, or debatably the Xperia Compact line. All enjoy a serious markup in the used market thanks to their small size.
I'm not sure we have enough information about mini users to draw the conclusions you seem to be drawing. I understand your skepticism, but you feel a little too ready to shoot down ideas about small phones.
It's niche, and definitely not for everyone, but I'm very excited about the BlackBerry Q20 revival that's currently in progress [0]. If your goals are "small size and not-gimped hardware", it might be worth a look. Reasonable specs & camera, running up-to-date Android, in a properly-small size
[0] https://linkapus.com/
Planning on sticking with my 13 Mini for at least another year, battery's starting to show its age a bit but that can be replaced. Doesn't even seem like there's a comparable Android model out there with decent specs and a small size or I'd consider switching despite being mostly in Apple's ecosystem these days.
It feels rough to ride or die my 13 mini after "ride or die" on my 2016 SE for so many years. But it seems the modern phone industry hasn't figured out that some people just don't want a big screen or a big brick.
It’s insane how few choices there are for smaller phones. When I got my iPhone 15, it was begrudgingly after doing a ton of research and finding out that it was basically the smallest phone I could get that supports 5g and has USB-C and a half decent camera. The only other choice was the Zenfone 10, which is only marginally smaller and is a markedly worse phone. Despite me getting my 15 early last year, I almost wish I had bought the iPhone 13 mini anyways, but too late now. I think I’ll stay on this one until it literally no longer functions, but if apple made another mini, I would buy it.
I had my previous phone before the 13 mini for 8 years. I wont mind having this one for as long too, but I am scared that there wont be a replacement even after all that time.
I'm not super into the "small phone" thing or anything but I just got the battery replaced on my 13 Pro. The phone feels basically as good as new now.
For me, USB-C charging is maybe the only upgrade I care about on newer iPhones but I'll probably just keep this and eventually switch to a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS (assuming it's still supported) whenever this thing dies for real.
My SE3 is likewise has “they can take it from my cold dead hands” status. I definitely need to get an aftermarket battery replacement though, my capacity is down to 75%
Given the failure of the Plus, I'm hoping that we'll someday return to a small screen phone. Honestly I would love a 17e mini, even. Just one phone option below a 6" screen (or more importantly, below 14cm height) would make all the difference.
I wonder if an ideal world is a 2 year flip-flop between "big screen, skinny" and "small screen, fat"?
I think a non-annual new model like the SE had would be ideal for most people that want those kinds of phones, they probably aren't going to go out and swap it for the new model the next year (probably one reason why the 13 Mini didn't sell as well with a lot of its target audience already on the 12 Mini).
Interestingly the Air doesn't have the 17 attached to it so maybe they learned and won't refresh it as often as the base model.
I'm on a 12 mini that is technically brand new because the Apple store fucked up in my favor... but yeah, I'm hoping to ride with this until we get an iPhone 28 mini or whatever.
...i've never had to stop and recharge my 12 mini, although i typically plug it in overnight every day or two...
...i keep an ipad pro for heavy lifting at home, so my typical phone loads away from home comprise a couple of hours of video conferencing, a couple hours of browsing, + six to eight hours of music; my heaviest use case is occasional site photography, which does drain the battery pretty quickly but is generally heat-limited more than anything else...that said, i make a point to close power-hungry applications and i never travel overnight without carrying a charging cable, neither of which i bothered with for my iphone 6, which often managed a week between charges albeit under a much lighter use case...
...regardless, i'm tracking to keep my 12 mini at least as long as my 6, until the next compact phone comes around...
I wish I kept the mini. I hate how big these phones are and how few options exist out there for decent small phones. I'd even consider switching to Android if, say, the Pixel came in a small size.
They discontinued the mini because sales were terrible. It makes me sad too, I loved my 12 mini. People who like to use their phone with one hand are apparently a very small market.
The Air is getting the most attention, but to be honest I think the most significant aspect of today's announcement is that the base model iPhone finally has a 120 Hz display.
Also I think the 17 Pro is hideous. But the Pixel-derived camera bar on the Air looks good to me.
Edit:
Oh I also just realized the flagship iPhones are no longer made with titanium as they were with the 15 Pro and 16 Pro models. The Air is now the only phone in the current lineup made with a titanium body.
IMO the Air looks more like the Nexus 6P. Except with an extra annoying camera protrusion on the mesa.
Agreed about the Pro, though. I love the orange color, but god damn that two-tone mesa-with bump back looks awful to me. Are they trying to push people to the non-Pro? And no black option to boot, only navy blue?
The orange seems divisive but I really like it. It looks like the same tone as the orange highlight button on my black Watch Ultra 2, which I also like. I hope this is the beginning of a trend of bolder colors like we used see in iMacs and iPods. The only thing like that in a long time were the Product(RED) models, which were also pretty cool.
More split on the design of the phone itself but I’ve seen worse.
As a sometimes-user of Apple products (phone, one particular Apple Silicon computer) I'm just consistently not a fan of a lot of their direction as a company, its a begrudging relationship for me as it is with mostly any "big tech", so most of the alternatives would be just as annoying. I think I'll use my 14 Pro until it becomes completely unusable. I'm so glad it doesn't run most of their AI shtick either. Sick of their obsession with "thinness" and other garbage. They do a number of things exceedingly well, while at the same time doing things that are endlessly frustrating
Can't lie, the iPhone Air is very intriguing IMO. Personally I would love a phone with the same screen size but lighter, and this seems like it. I'll have to wait until reviews to see how much the battery life is sacrificed, but it's definitely something I'm considering more than either the 17 and 17 pro.
The gap between the 17 and 17 pro went down quite a lot this gen. It's almost just the camera + USB3 speeds on the port. So the 17 pro seems very much like a "creator" camera, product segmentation wise.
I didn’t watch the actual presentation, but if this is the case, then it’s actually pretty funny. It means that we have now basically circled back to phones with replaceable batteries, just that the actual phone has a “reserve battery” built in.
I’m somewhat facetious, and I realise this was likely not Apple’s intention, but it strikes me as a pretty funny side effect.
There are some important differences:
Modern phone batteries + efficient processors means that with moderate usage you will get 1–1.5 days of battery life, so most modern phone users don't need a recharge. But heavy habitual (you watch lots of TikTok videos on the train) or situational (you're traveling and taking lots of video and photos) use can bring that down to 0.5 days battery life, so then you can just slap on this little battery backpack and bam, you've got the other half of the day covered.
Also, that being said, many modern phones have both USB-C and Qi charging—their chargers are ubiquitous—so people are frequently topping up their charge at the office, in restaurants, in the car, at friends' homes, etc. It's very different from the days when there are like 100 different proprietary charger cable types so you couldn't rely on finding your phone's type outside the home. If my phone battery is low and I'm out and have forgotten mine, I'll often just ask the gym reception desk or restaurant waitstaff to charge my phone for me.
The sealed design isn't actually necessary for water resistance. The Galaxy S5, the last set of Casio G'Zone phones, and the Kyocera smartphones have all had water resistance while having user-reaceable batteries. Locking backs and good gaskets are all that's really required.
Of course, if one is still insistent on super thin devices, then sure, that becomes harder, but still not impossible (again, see the S5).
Getting me out of lurk mode for this...
I'm surprised that, even with some tech content creators pointing this out, apple refuses to change this "feature" of the base model but the screen is a start. Is the average consumer really unaware that their flashy phones are using a connection that's over 20 years old? I guess they're listening since marquess always complained in his videos about the screen.
Boring history
USB3 was released ~15 years and that's what the pro models use. Apple doesn't even list the actual speeds nor the specific standard--is this a 3.0, 3.1 gen1? Looks like it's 3.1 gen1 but I'm too listless to search into this and that's not the point.
Anyways I suspect this comment will attract more responses like the comment I made about their computer/tablets but I'll say it anyways. It feels as if Apple hasn't updated their phones since 2012 (lightning connector released), specially when their base models are still using USB2 (circa 2000). There's definitely been improvements to their components and it's not a deal breaker but are their executives that desperate to push for pro sales that they refuse to update this part?
Back to phones
As usual the max pro models seem to fill that niche audience that uses the device in production. Air looks awful but maybe that's what people want; R.I.P.
Well, yeah, 99% of iPhone users will not use the port for anything but charging. The main use case where you would want file transfer over cable is content creators grabbing video files. The iPhone pro also can record directly to SSDs.
I don't think I've ever used my iPhone 15 Pro's USB 3 port for data transfers. All of the photos and videos I record get stored in iCloud so even that won't need to go over a cable.
You're probably right but then why offer this on the pro models and why not just have this be exclusive to the pro max models? This also reminds me of the argument for the high refresh rate displays which is that people "don't care" or use the feature. I'm curios about what changed their mind on the display.
For some reason Apple only ever comes up on TikTok if someone is upset about them. I swear that yesterday people were acting like the new iPhone models murdered their family.
lots of people on the internet think that the epitome of activism is being angry at premium toys for not being cheap enough
this applies to video games as well
The Switch 2 outrage was incomprehensible to me. I understand the increase puts it out of some people's range of affordability and it's okay to be upset about that. But social media encourages people to take any feeling and make it either 10/10 good or 10/10 bad.
That's probably just your own algorithm though right?
Either using the app on an android phone which then recommends ragebait to you based on that alone, or maybe you've watched some tech stuff about other companies than Apple and then again it recommends you engagement bait. I don't have TikTok but I do use Instagram and I have an iPhone and I can't say I've ever seen that type of content!
Social media algorithms are a helluvadrug and kinda scary.
Is it just me or does the comparison drop-down on the product page exclude all 16 series models?
That would reveal how little things have changed since last year's model. Apple always does this.
The thickness of that camera bump on the 17 Air is as thick as the phone's body, looks crazy from the side! Also, how sharp is it gonna feel in the hand? My 13 always leaves a kind of dent in my palm when I use it for more than like 15-20 minutes at a time and it even becomes a little sore after like 30 minutes or more. Hope they go back to more rounded edges in future.
Think I can safely keep that 13 for now anyways. Still working perfectly fine although I'm a little bit nervous about it becoming too slow from further software updates.
I agree but I’ve always used covers so maybe a cover would even out the camera bump. I’m considering this for my 13 mini but I don’t know.
I am not the target audience for this (even though the show the other duopolist puts on might change at least part of why) so IDK. Especially the Air is truly ugly and I suspect the camera bump causing that might be actual problem for everyday use.
I know I gripe in the wrong place but why is there not even a single mainstream phone model that prioritizes actual utility? Do people truly care about the fractions of a milimetre less thickness with every model, especially when that comes with smaller battery, camera bump and excuses how removable battery and ports have to be sacrificed for it? The things that actually matter for everyday usage.
Here's what I want from my phone
What I don't care about
So for me, the current phones are very high in utility. They do well on the things that matter for my everyday use, what can I say.
Everyones use case and preferences are different but in the current market only the side that centers around preferences you wrote about wins.
There is massive lack of choice around fundamentals in the smartphone market and I don't personally think any perceived lack of market demand is the root cause.
As a sidenote I have sadly given up on removable battery for now but more battery life has value of its own.
I think everyone can have their subjective preferences, but my point is more that statements like
implies that the things that I and the many people with those preferences prioritize are not "real", and that somehow the people who want SD-cards and flat backs and whatever are more "real" in some way. Which I do not think is the case.
I suppose it could be taken that way. In any case I simply prioritize different kind of utlity in likely different circumstances and was completely ignored along with anyone else with those preferences for decade or more and I am not particularly enthusiastic about that. I also admit I do consider the current trends over specializing but it is in a direction I don't care about already.
I also don't think these preferences are incompatible even on a single device but I probably could have written it a less combative tone.
I assume that a large part of the cause for market convergence into the modern smartphone is the cost of R&D. It's so much cheaper to just take the panel that Samsung is offering at a discount because they plan to make 300,000,000 of them than to ask for a custom smaller part with the same functionality. Repeat for all other parts in the phone.
The Air looks cool. Except for the large camera bump, which I know is unavoidable. But I just got a 16 Pro earlier in the year to replace my former 13 Pro. So I'm not upgrading anytime soon. Ideally, next one will be in 3-4yrs.
17 Pro in Orange is certainly a choice. Kinda surprised they don't have a black or at least dark gray option. Though the Deep Blue is nice.
Why is the bump unavoidable? I was eyeing the Air because I want a lighter phone, but then I saw the bump... one bump, then a second for the camera. Why not at least just one bump? Anyway... I have a 15 Pro so can't justify the upgrade anyway.
Just the physics of lenses and the desired quality level. You can have thinner lenses but the quality would suck. This is because there’s basically an acceptable ratio between the sensor size and the lens distance, so if you want the lens distance short you can’t have a very large sensor, and the public has decided they need a certain quality level for their instagram posts. You could have original iPhone level (2 megapixel) cameras with no bump in a modern thin form factor, but nobody would accept that.
However! There is practical research going on in the field of metalenses which are basically flat materials that have weird internal structure that redirects light more efficiently than a regular curved piece of glass. These could ultimately remove the bump, but aren’t quite there yet.
https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-and-postech-advance-metalens-technology-with-study-in-nature-communications
I would accept it :D
Thanks for the explanation.
At first I assumed it would rest on a table like a Pixel does but it looks like the second bump actually protrudes far enough that it still wobbles when laid down.
I kinda feel like that if you say your phone is ultra thin, but it has a massive camera bump.. then your phone is not ultra thin.
Little side-bar: the iPhone Air was actually on the ABC national news tonight. Kinda wild to me to see a product announcement get a spot on the already-crowded national news.
Despite closely following the leaks, it's cool to see the final products.
I'm surprised by how loud the orange on the Pro models really is. I do like the new design, just wish they made the lenses flush with the plateau, much like how Google did with the Pixels. Apple really seem to have taken thermals seriously with this generation of Pro. The vapor chamber combined with the aluminum unibody should cool the A19 Pro really well and keep the chassis cool as well. I'm not a serious enough photographer or videographer to appreciate the camera improvements, besides the square selfie sensor which is cool. I do think my favorite of the Pro color is the silver+white combo surprisingly enough, it really brings me back to the Apple designs of the late 2000s like the original Mac mini and the original Apple TV.
The regular 17 seems like the value play here. You get a proper LTPO 1-120Hz OLED display, good enough dual camera system, compact-ish chassis, and I think the best colors of all iPhones announced this event. I love the green and the purple. I'd be interested in seeing how this device holds up.
The Air is an interesting device overall. I was skeptical of the S25 Edge when it came out earlier in the year but I sorta understood the hype when I first held the device at Best Buy. It's kinda unreal holding a super thin device with a big screen. I can definitely see this device being engineering practice in a way for Apple's rumored upcoming folding iPhone. I also do wonder what battery life will be like. I know the S25 Edge struggles with battery but I think Apple can optimize their way to some half-decent battery life.
I know this article focuses on the iPhone but the Airpods really caught my attention. I have the USB-C Airpods Pros 2 from 2023 and they've held up fantastic and the ANC is surreal at times. I can't imagine what improving on this ANC would be like, it might give my WH-1000XM4s a run for their money.
I was considering replacing my 12 Pro this year but looking at the price (£1340 for the base 17 Pro with AppleCare with theft coverage for 2 years) I think I'll run my 12 Pro until it dies.
MKBHD video: iPhone 17/Pro/Air Impressions: Spot the Red Flags!
Another year without a smaller phone (iPhone mini). In the era of Instagram and TikTok, there seems to be no appetite for Apple to make happy the people who don't care about large screens, who just want something usable that fits COMFORTABLY in a pocket, that doesn't feel like a dumbbell when you have a case on it, that doesn't require a purse or sling or fannypack to COMFORTABLY carry around.
The modern smartphone is a electronic rectangular pancake that is more akin to a ball and chain than to a device that allows me to feel free and express myself. More a vehicle for ad distribution and cheap dopamine fixes than a proper tool to communicate with people.
The focus seems to be on making sure the camera rivals a DSLR. Do we not have enough pixels? How many more is "enough"? Between 17, 17 Pro, and 17 Air, can't one of these have no bump, be smaller, cheaper, and still a decent phone? Apparently not.
I'd gladly switch to Android, even though it would be a pain to move all my stuff to the Google ecosystem, but they don't have a small phone either. There are some odd Android brands on Amazon that I have no idea how good they are. There are the minimalist phones that try to market to me... they look good, but sacrificing that much functionality feels like an extreme compromise.
F Apple. F Google. F smartphones. I'm gonna leave it all behind and move to a cabin in the woods and be eaten by a bear. A better outcome than living under the tutelage of these big tech companies for another 40-50 years.
Thanks for attending my rant.
I increasingly feel the same. Maybe someday there will be enough of us to create a market opportunity, if the government ever decided to start enforcing antitrust laws again. Unfortunately the Apple/Google platform duopoly makes it way too hard for another entrant to offer the bare minimum apps for most use cases (especially since Google owns the most popular navigation stack and Apple owns the most popular messaging stack, and most social media these days barely exists in a broken format outside of mobile apps). But if enshittification gets bad enough I could see something minimal taking off.
In the meantime, I'll pray for an iPhone 17e mini. At least on iOS I can keep things simple and only use on-device AI features I actually like, like transcriptions, translations, and OCR.
Some of the privacy and on-device processing options have been one of my own reasons to stick to Apple and turn a blind eye to some of the things I dislike. For now I’m sticking to the 15 pro… see what else they release over the next few years. At least the pro shops remain functional for a while even if it’s larger and heavier than I’d like.
In March/April this year, I was on the fence about buying a new phone. My previous phone was holding up fine, so it wasn’t urgent, and I was tossing up between getting the 16 Pro Max or holding off until the 17 was announced.
Ultimately I decided to go for the 16 mostly because I wanted nicer cameras before heading to a festival, so I could take lots of photos while I was there. I was even considering getting the 16 and then upgrading to the 17 as soon as it came out, since I know there’s a trade-in/upgrade program if your phone is still in good condition.
Seeing the hideous 17 Pro Max I am so glad I jumped on the 16, and I will not be considering upgrading until the phones look half decent again. I could even forgive their lack of black/grey option if it was basically a single colour all over, but that horrible two-tone back panel and the mismatched colours around the raised section are so ugly to me.
Air looks cool but it also feels like an in-between product before they eventually release a foldable phone. One half of a future product, if you will.
I have a 14 Pro in purple currently. I was hoping that something this year would be a good purple color. I really want to get lightning out of my life, but there isn’t really anything compelling about the new phones. They are good, but I don’t think I would use any of the fancy features.
Instead of upgrading my phone, I think I might grab the new watch ultra. I have an S8, and the battery needs to be replaced. The satellite and longer battery of the ultra might get me to upgrade. And the titanium Milanese loop is apparently pretty good. Even with a new battery, my watch would run through the battery pretty fast on long runs or kayaks. Last kayak trip, the battery only lasted a few hours from a full charge. Hmmm.
Anyone have insights for someone debating moving from a Pixel 8a to the apple ecosystem? My main use-cases are:
Will answer what I can:
uBlock Origin Lite is now a proper iOS content blocker, FYI! You can get it in the app store.
Thanks. Hearing car integration is more or less equivalent is good to hear.
@ogre mentioned AdGuard. I use Firefox (on Android), so I viewed extensions as something installed via browser as opposed to a separate app. It's much better than nothing.
There are ad blocking extensions for safari, like AdGuard.
I use Orion, it ports a few Firefox extensions including uBlock origin. It works well enough.
I actually use Kagi, and saw they were working on Orion. Was mildly disappointed it's available only on apple's ecosystem.
They’re now working on a Linux version too. They’re limited to platforms where WebKit support is good, which for now is macOS, iOS, and Linux. WebKit on Android used to be good but has become derelict after Google shifted the primary web framework in Android to Blink, and support on Windows hasn’t been great ever since Apple gave up on Safari for Windows.
Google Maps is available for on iOS, so your experience could be identical to what you are used to. However I would give Apple Maps a try if you switch. I just really like the user interface of Apple Maps better. Google Maps seems like a UI that Google spent a decade shoving various features into. As a result, it has a lot of features, but the UI is busy and cramped. Especially once a navigation is in progress, the UI should get out of my way, and Apple Maps does a better job of this. As for transit directions themselves, Apple Maps (where transit is supported) seemed to me to have slightly better transit data than Google Maps. Still, if it is available in that city, I would always recommend Citymapper.
Can’t help much, but it should be possible without transcoding. Another option is to spin up plex and use one of the many plex clients.
Extensions very much do exist, including adblocking extensions. You can even have extensions in safari.
Apple is far from perfect, but right now only one company is even giving lip service to privacy, and that is Apple. iCloud accounts even have an end to end encryption mode that encrypts all data backed up to Apple. The mode is called “advanced data protection” if you want to do more research. I am sure a secured iPhone still isn’t as good as graphene OS, but Apple is the only vendor making devices for non-technical users who want privacy.
Interesting stuff, thanks. I'll see if I can "trial" run an iPhone for a week or so.
I'm actually using GrapheneOS at the moment, but honestly, I'm using it mostly to sandbox google's stuff (maps + auto). Not so much to harden against hacking/etc.
Apple actually has a really good return policy. You would have to buy straight from them. I think it’s like 14 days no questions asked returns. Look online for the details. Should be enough for a short trial run.
My recommendation is to ask a family member or friend to see if you can try their old iPhone.
I've never understood the small phone crowd, and am even a bit annoyed by them. Tiny screens have always been a menace to me. I want to read comfortably, and actually see what I'm watching or playing with some level of detail. What's funny is that phones like the Galaxy Fold don't interest me too much. I can count the number of times I wished I could side-by-side apps on my phone in the last year on about 2 fingers, and that's being generous when one considers how dead simple it is to quickly switch between apps. And for media, a Galaxy Fold's screen ratio means I'm not really getting more screen space in a meaningful way.
I view one-handed use as distracted use. The notion being that the other hand is otherwise unavailable, because what other reason would you have to be so cavalier with your $500+ (usually a lot more these days) device? But since I don't understand the desire at all, the only thing I can think of is people texting while driving.
I know people who miss the days of thinner phones, and the Air will scratch that itch. As long as the battery gets through a day, it will sell incredibly well. iPhone 13 minis, from what I heard, did not get through a day. One thing I can appreciate from the thinner phone crowd is that they don't show up in every single phone thread to moan. And iPhones have been chunky for a while.
So we'll see how that goes. I liked the new Pro phones quite a bit. I don't mind two-tone, and if not for the Pro moniker, there's room to experiment with more playful two tone combinations.
All in all, the updates seemed pretty solid, with my exception being the Airpods Pro 3. Better ANC because of foam tips? I'll pick up some Comply tips. And I think they're straight up lying about needing new earbuds for things like live translation. I'm curious about the new shape, but I won't be getting new buds until at least the 5-series, barring accidents. Solid watch updates, I look forward to the massive leaps when my 8 simply doesn't function anymore.
For context, my phone journey was Galaxy Nexus -> Nexus 5 -> Pixel 2 XL -> iPhone 13 (same screen size as the Pixel 2 XL in a smaller body) -> iPhone 16 Pro Max. I got tired of Google killing services, walling off Android, and putting out lackluster hardware. If they want their users in a walled garden, I might as well go to the nicer garden.
Just because I want a small phone doesn't mean I want to take away your big phone. I just want one option that isn't an offbrand unsupported Android phone with no security updates and poor US band support.
I prefer to use my phone one-handed most of the time because I mostly use it for communication, music, and navigation. I don't need two hands for most of those things. I never watch videos on my phone, and I wear glasses, so a big screen has zero appeal. The most important feature of a small phone is that it actually fits in my shorts pockets. I'm not tall, and I'm pretty skinny, so there isn't much space there. I really just want a phone that fits my size.
These use case arguments make little sense as a defense for a small phone. For music and navigation, I need zero hands. Once the album or playlist or destination is selected, I'm not still holding my phone. So what if I hold my phone with two hands to pick the music that's playing for the next hour or more? Sounds like a micro-optimization with no actual benefit. For navigation, a bigger screen is a clear winner. The last thing I want to be doing is craning or squinting to see when that turn is coming up. For communication, a larger screen is really nice. Not just for text input, but video calls. Or use swipe features, even on large phones, the keyboard can be shrunk and put to one side. It's again moot. These arguments don't really work.
I also wear glasses. I fail to see the correlation.
I also don't recall saying anything about my phone being taken away. I do recall stating how annoying it is to see small phone people in every phone article throwing themselves a pity party. Small phones have been given more than their fair shake in the market, and the market responded.
You want something that fits in your pocket? What's wrong with a Z Flip or a Razr? Too thick? Would you have actually been okay if the iPhone 13 were as thick as it needed to be for good battery life? Big hint, it'd be a lot closer to the thickness of the foldable.
More generally, I always hear about never watching videos and/or loathing social media. So why not a flip phone? They can do music, calls, and texting just fine. Or I always hear about the "right tool for the job." So buy a dedicated music player to go with your flip phone. And carry an e-reader while you're at it, and a tablet. And a laptop, according to comments here. Carry all of those so you can have your small phone. I'll stick with my big phone.
Take it down a notch, friend. I personally want something that doesn't exist. I'm sure the small phone pity parties are very annoying, but please remember that you live in a world where practically every phone caters to your taste.
I just want something that meets my needs and fits comfortably in my pocket. It's frustrating that my 13 mini, which easily meets my battery needs, has no successor, especially since I'd like to switch to USB-C.
You know what's more annoying than small phone lovers lamenting the death of small phones? Small phone lover haters trying to shove much too large slabs or much too brittle foldables down my throat. You're just like all the people who said I'd get over the headphone jack if I embraced bluetooth, or that Face ID is better than TouchID, or who insisted that the butterfly keyboard was an improvement just because it was new. Some of us just have different preferences. I respect yours, and hope the market continues to meet your needs. Please respect mine.
Small phone people being annoyed at my posts is peak hypocrisy to me.
Your level of annoyance, as evidenced by the desire to respond, is what small phone people do in every phone article. And you’re saying I should just accept it or not be bothered by it, and that small phone people are just fine as-is.
I’m not more annoying, I’m just as annoying. And the fact that you don’t like my posts here is a perfect demonstration of my point. We’re supposed to be talking about what was actually announced, but count how many top-level comments are complaining about no small phones instead.
You’re also hanging out in the wrong circles if people were trying to convince you about the butterfly keyboard. Or are these out-of-pocket comparisons just part of the proselytizing as well? There’s been at least one wild claim or correlation in every rebuttal.
I can understand both sides.
From the perspective of someone who uses their phone a lot, a big screen is nice (which is why I’ve been using Plus and Pro Max variants since the iPhone 6, with exception to the X).
From the perspective of someone who wants their smartphone to take a more auxiliary role, much as they did for most people from 2007-2014 or so, something like a modern iPhone 3GS/5S sounds amazing — lighter, more pocketable, less likely to become a distraction.
As far as ease of reading goes, I think that has more to do with screen panel quality and DPI. Generally small models have suffered here, with the larger models getting the primo panels that are easy on the eyes.
There are a lot of reasons for one-handed phone use beyond distracted use though. I read on my phone and I like holding a cup of coffee in my other hand. Sometimes I use it for recipes and only one hand is clean. Sometimes I'm petting my dog while I'm sending texts. Some people have smaller hands or joint pain that can make large phones tricky even with two hands. Some people only have one hand. Some people are sick of having their phone fall out of their tiny, tiny pockets constantly but also appreciate the convenience of modern smart phones and view the smaller screen as a worthwhile trade off.
None of these reasons are texting and driving. I'm glad a larger screen is helpful for you! It's great that you have so many options available for that. It can also be kind of a bummer to be part of a group that doesn't have any options to have their needs met. Sure, the market has decided these products don't need to exist, but as an individual human bean, that doesn't mean that need goes away; inconveniently, my body and lifestyle don't change to match the market. Maybe instead of being annoyed by a pity party, just recognize that there is a group of people trying to advocate for something that would be a better fit for them, wish them good luck, and then move on to the other comments visible on your large screen.
It's not advocating, though. It's a pity party. They're simply not the same.
And the thing is I don't have large hands. Probably average for a male of average height. And the big secret is that I don't always hold my phone with both hands. I can do things (yes, less things, but things nonetheless) with one hand. Like read, or text. My grip has had to adjust over the years, but iOS at least provides plenty of ability to do things one-handed, and pop sockets and the like aren't brand new things.
What stops you from adopting the pinkie shelf grip, using a pop socket-like grip, or shrinking your keyboard and putting its entirety within reach of your thumb? While an extra thing, iOS offers a gesture to bring the top half of the screen to the bottom half.
But I've found it's this no compromise approach with small phone people. "Real phones for real people, but only exactly like this and if anything is different I will throw a fit." If the Z Flip were as fragile as small phone people claim, it wouldn't be as succcessful as it is. I will admit its service percentage is probably higher, but it's not as bad as small phone people make it to be. If it's not the fragility, now it's too thick. It's always something. I've even heard people say that Apple set the iPhone 13 Mini up to fail, ignoring the reality of physics.
Why do I have to be the one to adapt, and not you? Why do I have to make accommodations, and not you? Again, this is putting it all on me. You're just saying, "I can complain all I want, and you're the one that needs to deal with it." You deal with it, and stop dragging everyone along.
We all have to adapt to something somewhere, a UI designers choice, a hardware designers choice.
Having more options available wouldn't be dragging anyone down, its just more options that you can choose from.
If the 'pity parties' annoy you to such an extent, give them a cursory glance and skip over them, they will keep existing. Try not to get yourself annoyed at something so small, it will only get big if you give it the attention and emotions.
May I recommend you take your own advice? Give my posts a glance and skip over them. They will keep existing. This thread is only big because of the attention it’s being given.
Again, I shouldn’t be the only one to adapt or change. Thanks for making my point.
Point to where the small phone people are saying that the small option should be the only one. You're the only absolutist I've seen in here.
This is the weakest argument I’ve seen yet. Point to where I’m being an absolutist. I’m just giving small phone people a taste of their own medicine by airing my grievance in public. My grievance is not an absolute stance on phones, it’s an expression of annoyance at small phone people who show up in every phone article and make it about themselves, in the same vein. And the fact so many people find my thread annoying proves my point. Which is that their incessant moaning is annoying.
Per their own words, my thread is perfectly valid and if it’s such a non-issue everyone taking issue with it should just move on and not give it all this energy.
EDIT: Just wanted to point out this also further cements the notion there's always being some out-of-pocket logical leap or wild claim, as I noted elsewhere. This is a random spot, but I'll also point out that I have kept my annoyance talk restricted to my own thread. I'm letting people feel sorry for themselves. Let me be annoyed, maybe? A brand new annoyance has been the amount of people coming into my thread and giving a "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude.
Or maybe I should go into every top-level thread moaning about no small phone and express my annoyance there?
I'm asking you to point out one of these "no compromise" comments. Generally, I've only ever seen the desire paraphrased as "it would be nice if we could have the current slate of phones plus a smaller variant". Why are you so mad at that opinion? I don't think I've seen people advocate for removing your option in order to advance theirs.
First, you said:
You did not ask me to point out a no-compromise comment. They are very different things, and context clues would have told you as much. But sure, play the burden of proof game. I'll point out that you didn't point out my absolutist comments while we're playing this silly game. Again, this is the rules for thee but not for me attitude.
And you're asking me to distill years of observations and generalizations into a few soundbites? No. My complaint has been general since the beginning, and attemping to shift the posts to limit it to this single discussion is disingenuous. Even so:
One clear example in this discussion was someone suggesting clamshell foldables, which seems like a perfect solution. When closed, the newer clamshells are incredibly useful for quick tasks that small phone people commonly cite. But what was the response? Did anyone say they'd tried it out, or that they would? No, they didn't. "It's too fragile" or "it's too thick" are now the problems. How much more "Not like that" can you get? There's your no-compromise comment.
How many times in this thread do I have to state that I am expressing my own annoyance? And if you read my top comment, you'll see it was an aside. I would much rather be discussing the actual announced products, not the infinite amount of things not announced, and especially not this unnanounced product. I'm not the one who has taken issue and made my thread all about small phones. But I'm also not going to be told to move on, when the very people that I'm annoyed with refuse to do the same. It's a double standard.
And finally and again, what do you care what I think? If you don't mind small phone people complaining, why can't I complain? Take the advice offended small phone people have been giving me. Ignore me and move on. I'll just be over here being grumpy and ignored. Small phone people hate the lack of small phones, I hate that they always make every phone thread about them. Case closed.
Imagine people talking about their dishwashers like this. But let me go on a tangent and offend a whole other crowd, the people who constantly moan about a dumb screen for their TV. Just don't connect it to the goddamn Internet. But no, they insist on complaining in every TV article. They are equally grating.
Nobody is taking away your large phone by the looks of it. Not sure why it annoys you that some people prefer smaller phones. Not everyone uses the phone the way you do. I play zero games, I hate social media so I don’t watch videos, and text can always be zoomed in or out and adjusted in the settings. If I want games, media, etc I prefer the iPad or laptop or TV. To each their own.
I state pretty clearly why it annoys me. But to be more explicit, I can't read a single article about any phone without small phone people throwing themselves a pity party in the comments, without fail. It's beyond tired. There's clearly not a sufficient market for it.
And how does hating social media equate to watching zero videos? I also hate social media. But I also like watching my shows during lunch. And you think exacerbating the size of the screen by putting even less content on it by zooming in is reasonable?
Just read the proselytizing and evangelizing in this post. It's all the same recycled talking points.
And then that's all before we get into the superiority complex present in your post and all small phone posts. Sure, this time it can be chalked as a response to my strong language, but look at the other threads as well. It's the same holier-than-thou tone.
Superiority complex? Holier than thou? I don’t think so. I’m just annoyed with Apple, and ranting a bit. I don’t think I’m better than others. Ultimately it’s just a phone and by tomorrow I will have forgotten about this entire news story and I’ll pick it up again next September. Don’t let these things get to you, it’s not worth it.
To your last point, I might recommend you take your own advice. If it's not worth it, if it isn't getting to you, then why are you already planning on complaining about it next year? Just let it go.
I thought about that too. I feel like this is all “first world problems” and shouldn’t let it get to me.
Have had similar phone upgrade history as you funny enough. Samsung Galaxy S (the first one!) -> Nexus 5 -> Samsung Galaxy A50 -> iPhone 13. Likely going to wait to upgrade until 18 or maybe even 19.
irt. the small phone thing, it's kind of hilarious going back to take a look at my Nexus 5 how tiny it is compared to iPhone 13. The size of it is cute in comparison!
Curious about what other thoughts you have on these Airpods! Was gifted a set of 2's a couple of months ago and returned them specifically because I knew 3 would come out soon and wanted to wait for them.
TL;DR: I think the Airpods Pro 3 are going to be a great set of earbuds. It's just a smaller generational leap over the 2s, to the point that I think nearly no one should consider the jump from 2 -> 3 outside of factors like loss or damage.
Smart move waiting for the 3s. I've had my Pro 2s for about a year now (so I have a Type-C case). I bought 1st gen Pros the year the Pro 2 was announced (bad timing on my part), and only upgraded because I was able to do a family shuffle. Even with the multi-year generations, I'll just use the buds I have until they no longer function. And when it's time for a replacement, I'll also want the newest thing so I can maximize the amount of time I have to run them into the ground.
It's not that I don't like Airpods Pro, quite the opposite. I watched the announcement, and I found Apple's language to be overly flowery because the upgrade simply wasn't that substantial. Compared to the 1 -> 2 upgrades, 2 -> 3 is less substantial. I can buy good foam tips for my buds today if I wanted to. Comply has been doing compatible memory foam tips for ages now.
Someone in the Ars comments noted that live translation is indeed coming to the Pro 2 line, and you need an Apple Intelligence capbable phone anyway.
The fitness updates, while cool, don't affect me as much right now. Like I said, the most intriguing update is the new shape. I do have issues with longer listening sessions where my buds might slowly slip out. It's not every time; I'm probably a bit oilier/sweatier those days, but if the new shape (and foam) help with that, great!
This would have normally been our phone upgrade year (our upgrade cycle is typically 4 years), but the spouse and I were itching to get off Lightning (we were very cagey about buying too many cables because the switch was imminent) and bump up our storage. So we'll have our 16 Pro Maxes until the 20 or 21 or so.
Bookmarked this as I ponder about getting them - thank you so much for the in depth reply!