I wanted to leave a quick comment in here to say thanks to everyone, whether you're donating or not. The donations are greatly appreciated and extremely encouraging for me, but I also don't want...
I wanted to leave a quick comment in here to say thanks to everyone, whether you're donating or not.
The donations are greatly appreciated and extremely encouraging for me, but I also don't want people to feel compelled to donate, or guilty if you're not (or can't). Monetary contributions definitely aren't the only important type, and I also really appreciate everyone being active on the site (even just lurking), giving feedback, inviting others, and so on.
What is the best way to leave feedback?? e.g. there appears to be no next button at the bottom of your user profile in order to see your older submissions https://tildes.net/user/Deimos
What is the best way to leave feedback??
e.g. there appears to be no next button at the bottom of your user profile in order to see your older submissions
Your site is very fast and simply beautiful. Thanks for the invite. My #1 suggestion is to politely say no as often as you can. My favorite way of saying no is simply saying "good idea."
Your site is very fast and simply beautiful. Thanks for the invite.
My #1 suggestion is to politely say no as often as you can.
My favorite way of saying no is simply saying "good idea."
Small monthly donation via Patreon. I deleted the Reddit app because this place immediately offered more sustenance in one day than a week over there, and with a very small user base. I want...
Small monthly donation via Patreon.
I deleted the Reddit app because this place immediately offered more sustenance in one day than a week over there, and with a very small user base. I want tildes to grow with more similarly minded/directed people.
Exactly. I’m looking forward to helping build this exact type of community, particularly in political discussions. Lots of people are upset. I’m upset. But the echoes don’t resolve the issues. I...
Exactly. I’m looking forward to helping build this exact type of community, particularly in political discussions. Lots of people are upset. I’m upset. But the echoes don’t resolve the issues. I don’t need to consume or feed the vitriol monster. I just want a place to just be, and I have high hopes and a willingness to help make this into that place.
I really like these initial conversations as tildes grows. They’re like the cave drawings of a forming society. It’ll be fun to revisit these in a couple of years.
I have to say that I love our current politics thread. We have people with several different viewpoints (though the majority appears to be left leaning), and it has stayed civil, with people...
I have to say that I love our current politics thread. We have people with several different viewpoints (though the majority appears to be left leaning), and it has stayed civil, with people discussing each others viewpoints.
I’m definitely looking forward to some time in the politics thread. The one thing I’ll miss -perhaps a guilty pleasure that I’ll soon lose a taste for- is poppinKream’s analyses. Those were...
I’m definitely looking forward to some time in the politics thread. The one thing I’ll miss -perhaps a guilty pleasure that I’ll soon lose a taste for- is poppinKream’s analyses. Those were insightful and well cited but inciting in the climate over there. That was a lot of me saying words with sight/cite in ‘em.
I made a donation, but not via Patreon. The initial sell for the site has me convinced that it's a decent idea, but before I set up anything recurring I want to see everything working out for a while.
I made a donation, but not via Patreon. The initial sell for the site has me convinced that it's a decent idea, but before I set up anything recurring I want to see everything working out for a while.
I agree with you there. If it seems to work out long term I'll start a patreon thing ~but I've heard patreon takes 40%ish~ so I might just occasionally donate a bit more in a block via paypal...
I agree with you there. If it seems to work out long term I'll start a patreon thing ~but I've heard patreon takes 40%ish~ so I might just occasionally donate a bit more in a block via paypal which has smaller fees for a larger donation.
https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204606125-How-do-you-calculate-fees- It seems to me that Patreon takes 5%, and payment processors take on average of 2.9%. Those few "extra cents" are...
It seems to me that Patreon takes 5%, and payment processors take on average of 2.9%. Those few "extra cents" are probably notable on small $1 donations, but I've heard people mention that the total charges are usually no more than 10%.
40% would be Steam & app store level charges, which would be outrageous considering Patreon doesn't provide nearly as many services.
IIRC most digital sales platforms take 30% as standard (Valve/Steam, EA/Origin, Apple, Google, Etc.) with one of the few exceptions being BandCamp which only takes 15% up to $5000/yr in sales then...
IIRC most digital sales platforms take 30% as standard (Valve/Steam, EA/Origin, Apple, Google, Etc.) with one of the few exceptions being BandCamp which only takes 15% up to $5000/yr in sales then drops down to 10% after that... Which is why I try my best to go out of my way to use BandCamp whenever I buy music nowadays.
fun fact - bandcamp is one of the few digital music services that actually make a profit. seems like their business model works well for them as well as the artist!
fun fact - bandcamp is one of the few digital music services that actually make a profit. seems like their business model works well for them as well as the artist!
Thanks for correcting me. I personally thought it was sorta resonably with people who release a lot of videos onto patreon but I can see how it's shit for no perks.
Thanks for correcting me. I personally thought it was sorta resonably with people who release a lot of videos onto patreon but I can see how it's shit for no perks.
I am. I want to contribute on a regular basis, but I suck with remembering so having something that takes care of it automatically is nice. I’m excited to see this grow. I need and WANT it to grow...
I am. I want to contribute on a regular basis, but I suck with remembering so having something that takes care of it automatically is nice.
I’m excited to see this grow. I need and WANT it to grow and become wonderful. I loved reddit when I joined 7 years ago because of all the wonderful discussion happening in the comments. The snark, the puns, the insights from insiders and actual experts, etc. I’m hoping this one day becomes something similar- a place online where I can go to keep a pulse on things I’m interested in or might be, as well as be exposed to and consider multiple well-thought-out points of view on many subjects, and using all that information to become a more considerate, informed, and balanced individual.
5$ here. Reddit has been extremely formative for me as a forum to either witness or participate in an honest and open exchange of ideas and as a stepping stone for finding valuable content and...
5$ here.
Reddit has been extremely formative for me as a forum to either witness or participate in an honest and open exchange of ideas and as a stepping stone for finding valuable content and resources. Unfortunately that's slowly shifted over the years towards a saturated echo chamber where during 10-15 minute visit instead of learning anything interesting I'd be scrolling through memes, short videos, etc. It felt like junk food.
I liked what I saw when I joined ~ and pledged 1$, but after seeing the amount of thought being put into it I upped the pledge to 5. I think communities like ~ can be extremely valuable.
Money is a bit tight but if I'm really worried about that there's worse spending to tackle first.
I support a whole bunch of content producers/sites already for a few bucks a month on patreon (e.g. Townsends, Primitive Technology, Cloth Map, Strange Parts, ForgottenWeapons, etc)... so I...
I support a whole bunch of content producers/sites already for a few bucks a month on patreon (e.g. Townsends, Primitive Technology, Cloth Map, Strange Parts, ForgottenWeapons, etc)... so I figured since I love ~ enough to volunteer my time trying my best (and sometimes failing) to help @deimos out with it, I might as well do so financially as well. :)
Link for the lazy: https://www.patreon.com/tildes I donate and strongly suggest that you should too, not just for financial purposes but for early signals of viability for Deimos. If it looks more...
I donate and strongly suggest that you should too, not just for financial purposes but for early signals of viability for Deimos. If it looks more likely to be viable he will continue to work on it. For that reason I think it’s super important to contribute to something like this early.
Edited to add: I know @deimos would never say this and maybe say “there are lots of other ways to see traction” - which I agree with! But this is probably one of the most core ways to understand if tildes will be sustainable. Contribute!
So first of all I definitely with your enthusiasm here. Personally I think everyone who believes in this thing and can afford to donate absolutely should. @Deimos seems 100% dedicated in making...
So first of all I definitely with your enthusiasm here. Personally I think everyone who believes in this thing and can afford to donate absolutely should. @Deimos seems 100% dedicated in making this thing work and if he can do that comfortably full-time then donations are absolutely key to that.
Where I kind of disagree is not so much the emphasis you're putting on it, but the exclusive nature of it. I'd argue that equally if not more important is users who "get it" and help build the community in a constructive, positive manner. People who provide valuable content, replies, discussions, treat others well, etc. Money helps ensure the site's existence, but good users ensure its prosperity. Being one of the latter could arguably be more valuable than raw financial support.
...that said my intuition would be that the type of person that would be a strong asset to the community is probably the type of person that'd be in a economic position to flick at least a dollar a month in the site's general direction.
I'm a strong believer in the voluntary donations model. A dollar a month is nothing. If you've got 5000 users who donate an average of 1$ that's 60k/y!
On a side note now I'm wondering how server costs scale with active user count.
That’s all fair and I don’t think I really intended for it to be exclusive, although I totally get how it reads that way. Momentum from the start for a community like this is critical, I agree.
That’s all fair and I don’t think I really intended for it to be exclusive, although I totally get how it reads that way. Momentum from the start for a community like this is critical, I agree.
I am, £2 a month. As to why, it seems a good idea, and stuff like this wont be free. Rather donate a small amount that I can happily afford than see it become ad supported.
I am, £2 a month.
As to why, it seems a good idea, and stuff like this wont be free. Rather donate a small amount that I can happily afford than see it become ad supported.
I'm not because my income is extremely unpredictable. From time to time I'll be able to, and very happy to, make one-off donations but I'm not signing up for a regular payment no matter how small...
I'm not because my income is extremely unpredictable. From time to time I'll be able to, and very happy to, make one-off donations but I'm not signing up for a regular payment no matter how small it is. I'd rather drop £50 once a year than £4/month.
Actually @deimos you can likely register for Amazon Smile. Basically charitable affiliate scheme where you get a small kickback from people using Amazon and having you as their Smile recipient.
Actually @deimos you can likely register for Amazon Smile. Basically charitable affiliate scheme where you get a small kickback from people using Amazon and having you as their Smile recipient.
Isn’t Smile restricted to charities only? And even then, AFAIK they also only support American charities since I’m pretty sure Amazon Canada doesn’t have a Smile program and ~ is a Canadian...
Isn’t Smile restricted to charities only? And even then, AFAIK they also only support American charities since I’m pretty sure Amazon Canada doesn’t have a Smile program and ~ is a Canadian Not-for-profit Corporation. This is definitely something that should be looked into further though, IMO.
If they're a registered charitable organization (which they're not, I think, just an NPO) they can use Canada Helps, which facilitates donations/tax receipts and is independent (not owned by Amazon).
If they're a registered charitable organization (which they're not, I think, just an NPO) they can use Canada Helps, which facilitates donations/tax receipts and is independent (not owned by Amazon).
Unfortunately, Canada's requirements for charity status are very restricted and it's unlikely it will ever qualify: https://docs.tildes.net/faq#why-is-tildes-a-non-profit-and-not-a-charity
I signed up for $10/month. Part of that will come from not renewing reddit gold as I'm not going to support the direction they're currently headed. I really hope more people will sign up to be...
I signed up for $10/month. Part of that will come from not renewing reddit gold as I'm not going to support the direction they're currently headed.
I really hope more people will sign up to be monthly contributors; enough so @deimos can work on this full time. I think most people can afford $10/month.
I do not have a credit card linked to PP and I use patreon. I have a bank account tied to it and a debit card, but the money comes off the bank account.
I do not have a credit card linked to PP and I use patreon. I have a bank account tied to it and a debit card, but the money comes off the bank account.
People avoid PayPal for idoligical reasons. I for one had my account suspended after someone claimed I didn't ship an item through an eBay transaction. I had proof as it was certified mail but the...
People avoid PayPal for idoligical reasons. I for one had my account suspended after someone claimed I didn't ship an item through an eBay transaction. I had proof as it was certified mail but the process of reinstating my account was so fucking brutal I decided to never use it again.
I tried using PayPal once. I was forced to use it by a buyer on eBay when I was selling something. I ended up not being able to withdraw my money (I forget why - something about minimum...
I tried using PayPal once. I was forced to use it by a buyer on eBay when I was selling something. I ended up not being able to withdraw my money (I forget why - something about minimum transaction limits, I think...).
I've never gone back to it. I just remember it as unusable and impractical.
What, not having a credit card? I'm in the EU and my bank issued me a debit card (VISA) that can be used like a credit card. Already used it to donate to ~ :)
What, not having a credit card? I'm in the EU and my bank issued me a debit card (VISA) that can be used like a credit card. Already used it to donate to ~ :)
I sent $12, I figure that's the same as a $1 a month patreon for the next year without having it eaten up by fees. If this is still around ina year I'll probably remember to do it again.
I sent $12, I figure that's the same as a $1 a month patreon for the next year without having it eaten up by fees. If this is still around ina year I'll probably remember to do it again.
I don't support via Patreon, but made a sizable donation via Stripe. I plan to make another donation next year. Nothing wrong with Patreon; I just used a different method.
I don't support via Patreon, but made a sizable donation via Stripe. I plan to make another donation next year.
Nothing wrong with Patreon; I just used a different method.
I haven't really sponsored any site or project before, and I don't make much money, but I am genuinely desperate enough for a "conscientious Reddit alternative" that I will throw a few bucks a...
I haven't really sponsored any site or project before, and I don't make much money, but I am genuinely desperate enough for a "conscientious Reddit alternative" that I will throw a few bucks a month to the developers.
I started out on Patreon with just $1 per month pre-invitation, but just upped it to $10 based solely on the initial content of the alpha users. As someone who remembers the early days of the...
I started out on Patreon with just $1 per month pre-invitation, but just upped it to $10 based solely on the initial content of the alpha users. As someone who remembers the early days of the Internet - and even back to BBSs - there is so much that has gone fundamentally wrong - amongst the many improvements. I really want Tildes to succeed - so my plan is to start off on Patreon at a fairly reasonable level for me ($10/month) considering the currently limited content, see where it goes and increase or decrease accordingly. I'd rather start off higher than it's currently worth in order to help ensure its success. I think Patreon's service charge is probably a bit high - but I believe there needs to be a service out there like Patreon and they seem best (if not only). The main criticism I have with Patreon is the lack of a clear ban policies and procedures - which could lead to issues we have seen before (need I list some?)...
I’ll never forget the disappointment and frustration in my parents when they finally got me the second phone line for my BBS, so that they could use their phone again, and all it meant was that 2...
even back to BBSs
I’ll never forget the disappointment and frustration in my parents when they finally got me the second phone line for my BBS, so that they could use their phone again, and all it meant was that 2 people could simultaneously connect to my sever. Sorry mom!
I'm broke, but I also personally think that if someone's starting something like this that they should generate their own capital from somewhere other than they're user base. Way too many of these...
I'm broke, but I also personally think that if someone's starting something like this that they should generate their own capital from somewhere other than they're user base. Way too many of these ventures fail eventually and you'll never see anything for the money you've contributed.
I feel the same way about businesses that short change their employees so the owner can making a living wage. If you can't afford your endeavor with the ability to pay your employees the wage they deserve, you don't deserve to own a business plain and simple.
If this site is successful it's not like the money you invested is going to generate a monetary return. That's all going in someone else's pocket and they're not going to share. Even in a non profit situation they can pay themselves whatever they want.
Users utilizing the website and building up content so the site is successful is the only contribution a user should ever have to make. There's the investment in the website imo.
Not only clashes with the ethos but AFAIK is legally prohibited as well since non-profits in Canada cannot take on private investors since all profits must, by law, be reinvested back into the...
Not only clashes with the ethos but AFAIK is legally prohibited as well since non-profits in Canada cannot take on private investors since all profits must, by law, be reinvested back into the non-profit to further its aims/goals and ongoing projects. Non-profit specific loans and grants (both usually with strict requirements and obligations), yes... but not private investors/VC. Also, non-profit loans are risky for a startup and both them and grants often come with major strings attached. Both are also time consuming and difficult processes to navigate through unless you use a non-profit loan/grant application service but those tend to be expensive while also not guaranteed to get you any results.
So, a question if you don't mind (not trying to cause a fight, honest, just genuinely curious)... but why are you here on ~ if you fundamentally disagree with one of the fundamental principles of...
So, a question if you don't mind (not trying to cause a fight, honest, just genuinely curious)... but why are you here on ~ if you fundamentally disagree with one of the fundamental principles of the site? There is no obligation for anyone here to donate, but it seems a bit incongruous you would choose to inhabit a non-profit social media site that is founded on the principles of charity and relying on donations in order to run while disagreeing that it should. And, I'm also curious what you feel about Wikipedia if that is the case?
I'm interested in how I'm getting so much flack for a single opinion, when all of you had a conversation two weeks ago that was warm and fuzzy with an alt right Trump fan boy. If any of you had...
I'm interested in how I'm getting so much flack for a single opinion, when all of you had a conversation two weeks ago that was warm and fuzzy with an alt right Trump fan boy.
If any of you had done any research on the guy you'd have found out that his viewpoints run against pretty much every aspect of what this site stands for. And that's despite the fact that everyone fell for his 'reasonable alt right guy' schtick.
As far as Wikipedia goes, I'd say that websites that provide the educational content they do should be kept free of any outside influence when it comes to money. An entertainment site though? I dunno.
If that's the one thing I sort of disagree with I guess that apparently makes me worse than an alt right guy masquerading something they're not. Running through that thread and thinking about the fact that I've gotten five messages attacking me over this is just kind of a head shaker.
Guess we're finding out who the attack dogs are going to be.
You're not "getting flack", people are just disagreeing with you and explaining, rationally and calmly why. They aren't "attack dogs"... look at the rest of the thread. You're literally the only...
You're not "getting flack", people are just disagreeing with you and explaining, rationally and calmly why. They aren't "attack dogs"... look at the rest of the thread. You're literally the only dissenting opinion about the donation model, so of course people are going to reply to you and attempt to explain their contrary positions. What else did you expect to happen?
And I tried my absolute best to make it 100% clear I wasn't attacking you or trying to start a fight. I was genuinely interested to hear you opinion on why you think ~ shouldn't rely on donations and was interested in knowing why you were on the site if you thought it shouldn't. Truly, I just wanted to understand your position. Although now I regret asking because of how personal you are taking all this.
Also, I have no idea what mumberthrax has to do with any of this, nor did anyone accuse you of being worse than an alt-righter... where are you getting that from?
I just think it's bizarre that one dissenting opinion of mine was met with force when that garbage was entertained for days. I think it's great if users who can manage to donate or want to do....
I just think it's bizarre that one dissenting opinion of mine was met with force when that garbage was entertained for days. I think it's great if users who can manage to donate or want to do.
Some of us can't or won't. Unless there's a paid subscription model I don't know how you could enforce something like that. People pay in to start ups that fail all the time and get nothing out of it. If you donate 100 bucks and the site disappears on day for any reason, then you're not getting anything back on your investment.
If I were ever to be able to donate, it'd honestly have to be pretty proven and clearly sustainable long term as far as quality content and stuff goes. I thought it'd be enough to some extent to contribute content and conversation since that's half the equation anyway.
Met with force? You got 4 direct replies and none of them were personal attacks nor were they accusatory, derogatory or insulting in any way. You let your opinion be known, it's in the minority...
Met with force? You got 4 direct replies and none of them were personal attacks nor were they accusatory, derogatory or insulting in any way. You let your opinion be known, it's in the minority and so a few people who disagreed with you tried to calmly, rationally explain why they do.
I don't know how you could enforce something like that
Again, where are you getting this from? Nobody anywhere implied anyone must donate to use the site. I even explicitly stated otherwise in my question to you:
Every service online gets controlled by the people paying for it. Reddit is a mess because the people funding it want growth, growth, growth, with no regard for quality. Tildes is built on the...
Every service online gets controlled by the people paying for it.
Reddit is a mess because the people funding it want growth, growth, growth, with no regard for quality.
Tildes is built on the principle of not seeking external funding for this reason. If Tildes will be controlled by anyone funding it, the funders will be the users.
As they say, nothing is free, and if the users aren't paying for it directly with money then they'll be paying for it some other way. Deimos obviously has the capital to start with to host the...
As they say, nothing is free, and if the users aren't paying for it directly with money then they'll be paying for it some other way. Deimos obviously has the capital to start with to host the site for a small collection of users; that isn't too hard. Unfortunately, if the site is to become something larger, then it will be impossible to just come in with some set amount of money already allocated to it (out of the sheer generosity of the site's operator, no less) and run off that until the end of time (unless Deimos is a billionaire, I suppose).
I think based on the site's goals, the users who will be most interested in this place will appreciate that a monetary sacrifice is a lesser one than a sacrifice of privacy. If all users contributed just a little bit, the site ought to be quite sustainable.
I see a lot of ways this community could go. Some I like, some I don't. Basically, if as time goes on it looks more like the kind of place I want to stick around in, I'll drop a donation. Almost...
I see a lot of ways this community could go. Some I like, some I don't. Basically, if as time goes on it looks more like the kind of place I want to stick around in, I'll drop a donation. Almost did it yesterday but I don't want to feel bad about supporting something that turns out to be a negative space.
Not yet but I will be in the future if this place continues on the path that it is now. As soon as I reorganize my financials I in for some amount a month.
Not yet but I will be in the future if this place continues on the path that it is now. As soon as I reorganize my financials I in for some amount a month.
The site is only in alpha, so I'm not going to donate yet. Let's see how well it takes off. If I continue to use it beyond the alpha, then I believe I will continue to donate for as long as I post...
The site is only in alpha, so I'm not going to donate yet. Let's see how well it takes off. If I continue to use it beyond the alpha, then I believe I will continue to donate for as long as I post here and as long as it remains ad-free.
As someone who just got here (this is my first comment/post), because I wanna see how this goes. If I end up spending as much time here as I do on Reddit, I'll gladly send some money their way....
As someone who just got here (this is my first comment/post), because I wanna see how this goes. If I end up spending as much time here as I do on Reddit, I'll gladly send some money their way. Which is kinda weird since I never felt compelled to help Reddit... huh...
I wanted to leave a quick comment in here to say thanks to everyone, whether you're donating or not.
The donations are greatly appreciated and extremely encouraging for me, but I also don't want people to feel compelled to donate, or guilty if you're not (or can't). Monetary contributions definitely aren't the only important type, and I also really appreciate everyone being active on the site (even just lurking), giving feedback, inviting others, and so on.
What is the best way to leave feedback??
e.g. there appears to be no next button at the bottom of your user profile in order to see your older submissions
https://tildes.net/user/Deimos
You can message me, post in ~tildes, or put it on the issue tracker. I'm aware of that one though, user pages aren't paginated yet.
Your site is very fast and simply beautiful. Thanks for the invite.
My #1 suggestion is to politely say no as often as you can.
My favorite way of saying no is simply saying "good idea."
Nice.
Pagination simply hasn't been added yet. It's coming eventually.
I'm not but that's just because I'm pretty much broke... Tildes definitly deserves donations
Same. Still in school and don't exactly have a good source of income, but if I did, I definitely would.
Same. 70k college tuition... Anyone wanna help me out too? lol
Small monthly donation via Patreon.
I deleted the Reddit app because this place immediately offered more sustenance in one day than a week over there, and with a very small user base. I want tildes to grow with more similarly minded/directed people.
Even people of different opinions are good (if not great for less of an echo chamber) as long as they're cordial.
Exactly. I’m looking forward to helping build this exact type of community, particularly in political discussions. Lots of people are upset. I’m upset. But the echoes don’t resolve the issues. I don’t need to consume or feed the vitriol monster. I just want a place to just be, and I have high hopes and a willingness to help make this into that place.
I really like these initial conversations as tildes grows. They’re like the cave drawings of a forming society. It’ll be fun to revisit these in a couple of years.
I have to say that I love our current politics thread. We have people with several different viewpoints (though the majority appears to be left leaning), and it has stayed civil, with people discussing each others viewpoints.
I’m definitely looking forward to some time in the politics thread. The one thing I’ll miss -perhaps a guilty pleasure that I’ll soon lose a taste for- is poppinKream’s analyses. Those were insightful and well cited but inciting in the climate over there. That was a lot of me saying words with sight/cite in ‘em.
That was really nicely put. Yeah, hopefully it'll be looking back to the start to see how we created something great.
Great you like it here!
I made a donation, but not via Patreon. The initial sell for the site has me convinced that it's a decent idea, but before I set up anything recurring I want to see everything working out for a while.
I agree with you there. If it seems to work out long term I'll start a patreon thing ~but I've heard patreon takes 40%ish~ so I might just occasionally donate a bit more in a block via paypal which has smaller fees for a larger donation.
I'm wrong about Patreon: see reply from @Twelph
https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204606125-How-do-you-calculate-fees-
It seems to me that Patreon takes 5%, and payment processors take on average of 2.9%. Those few "extra cents" are probably notable on small $1 donations, but I've heard people mention that the total charges are usually no more than 10%.
40% would be Steam & app store level charges, which would be outrageous considering Patreon doesn't provide nearly as many services.
IIRC most digital sales platforms take 30% as standard (Valve/Steam, EA/Origin, Apple, Google, Etc.) with one of the few exceptions being BandCamp which only takes 15% up to $5000/yr in sales then drops down to 10% after that... Which is why I try my best to go out of my way to use BandCamp whenever I buy music nowadays.
That's good to know, I always try to use Bandcamp for all the lossy and lossless download options.
Thanks for educating me on that. I'll try to use BandCamp when I buy music although to be honest I mostly use Spotify.
fun fact - bandcamp is one of the few digital music services that actually make a profit. seems like their business model works well for them as well as the artist!
good to know about Bandcamp.
Gonna buy my music there from now on, thanks for the info.
Thanks for correcting me. I personally thought it was sorta resonably with people who release a lot of videos onto patreon but I can see how it's shit for no perks.
I want to see if ~ feels like a community I want to stick with first, but I'm definitely considering something like $3-5/month if I like it enough.
I am. I want to contribute on a regular basis, but I suck with remembering so having something that takes care of it automatically is nice.
I’m excited to see this grow. I need and WANT it to grow and become wonderful. I loved reddit when I joined 7 years ago because of all the wonderful discussion happening in the comments. The snark, the puns, the insights from insiders and actual experts, etc. I’m hoping this one day becomes something similar- a place online where I can go to keep a pulse on things I’m interested in or might be, as well as be exposed to and consider multiple well-thought-out points of view on many subjects, and using all that information to become a more considerate, informed, and balanced individual.
5$ here.
Reddit has been extremely formative for me as a forum to either witness or participate in an honest and open exchange of ideas and as a stepping stone for finding valuable content and resources. Unfortunately that's slowly shifted over the years towards a saturated echo chamber where during 10-15 minute visit instead of learning anything interesting I'd be scrolling through memes, short videos, etc. It felt like junk food.
I liked what I saw when I joined ~ and pledged 1$, but after seeing the amount of thought being put into it I upped the pledge to 5. I think communities like ~ can be extremely valuable.
Money is a bit tight but if I'm really worried about that there's worse spending to tackle first.
I support a whole bunch of content producers/sites already for a few bucks a month on patreon (e.g. Townsends, Primitive Technology, Cloth Map, Strange Parts, ForgottenWeapons, etc)... so I figured since I love ~ enough to volunteer my time trying my best (and sometimes failing) to help @deimos out with it, I might as well do so financially as well. :)
Link for the lazy: https://www.patreon.com/tildes
I donate and strongly suggest that you should too, not just for financial purposes but for early signals of viability for Deimos. If it looks more likely to be viable he will continue to work on it. For that reason I think it’s super important to contribute to something like this early.
Edited to add: I know @deimos would never say this and maybe say “there are lots of other ways to see traction” - which I agree with! But this is probably one of the most core ways to understand if tildes will be sustainable. Contribute!
So first of all I definitely with your enthusiasm here. Personally I think everyone who believes in this thing and can afford to donate absolutely should. @Deimos seems 100% dedicated in making this thing work and if he can do that comfortably full-time then donations are absolutely key to that.
Where I kind of disagree is not so much the emphasis you're putting on it, but the exclusive nature of it. I'd argue that equally if not more important is users who "get it" and help build the community in a constructive, positive manner. People who provide valuable content, replies, discussions, treat others well, etc. Money helps ensure the site's existence, but good users ensure its prosperity. Being one of the latter could arguably be more valuable than raw financial support.
...that said my intuition would be that the type of person that would be a strong asset to the community is probably the type of person that'd be in a economic position to flick at least a dollar a month in the site's general direction.
I'm a strong believer in the voluntary donations model. A dollar a month is nothing. If you've got 5000 users who donate an average of 1$ that's 60k/y!
On a side note now I'm wondering how server costs scale with active user count.
That’s all fair and I don’t think I really intended for it to be exclusive, although I totally get how it reads that way. Momentum from the start for a community like this is critical, I agree.
I am, £2 a month.
As to why, it seems a good idea, and stuff like this wont be free. Rather donate a small amount that I can happily afford than see it become ad supported.
I'm not because my income is extremely unpredictable. From time to time I'll be able to, and very happy to, make one-off donations but I'm not signing up for a regular payment no matter how small it is. I'd rather drop £50 once a year than £4/month.
Actually @deimos you can likely register for Amazon Smile. Basically charitable affiliate scheme where you get a small kickback from people using Amazon and having you as their Smile recipient.
Isn’t Smile restricted to charities only? And even then, AFAIK they also only support American charities since I’m pretty sure Amazon Canada doesn’t have a Smile program and ~ is a Canadian Not-for-profit Corporation. This is definitely something that should be looked into further though, IMO.
If they're a registered charitable organization (which they're not, I think, just an NPO) they can use Canada Helps, which facilitates donations/tax receipts and is independent (not owned by Amazon).
Unfortunately, Canada's requirements for charity status are very restricted and it's unlikely it will ever qualify: https://docs.tildes.net/faq#why-is-tildes-a-non-profit-and-not-a-charity
I signed up for $10/month. Part of that will come from not renewing reddit gold as I'm not going to support the direction they're currently headed.
I really hope more people will sign up to be monthly contributors; enough so @deimos can work on this full time. I think most people can afford $10/month.
Don’t have a credit card. Yea, that’s a thing in the EU, still.
You can do patreon via PayPal, which just requires a bank account.
PayPal requires a credit card for some transactions. I think Patreon is one of them. I have paypal.
I do not have a credit card linked to PP and I use patreon. I have a bank account tied to it and a debit card, but the money comes off the bank account.
Not everyone uses PayPal. Shocking, I know, but true.
Yes but if credit card was the problem then PayPal was an alternative that gets round it.
Yes, but if someone doesn't use PayPal, that alternative won't work.
So sign up for a PayPal account? Am I missing something?
People avoid PayPal for idoligical reasons. I for one had my account suspended after someone claimed I didn't ship an item through an eBay transaction. I had proof as it was certified mail but the process of reinstating my account was so fucking brutal I decided to never use it again.
I tried using PayPal once. I was forced to use it by a buyer on eBay when I was selling something. I ended up not being able to withdraw my money (I forget why - something about minimum transaction limits, I think...).
I've never gone back to it. I just remember it as unusable and impractical.
What, not having a credit card? I'm in the EU and my bank issued me a debit card (VISA) that can be used like a credit card. Already used it to donate to ~ :)
Where in the EU?
I know, that some banks in Germany do this. At least I have one like he's describing. But not all afaik.
I sent $12, I figure that's the same as a $1 a month patreon for the next year without having it eaten up by fees. If this is still around ina year I'll probably remember to do it again.
I will get on it today. Didn’t know it was there.
Edit: done.
Same! I just found out about the Patreon so I jumped on it for a few dollars.
I don't support via Patreon, but made a sizable donation via Stripe. I plan to make another donation next year.
Nothing wrong with Patreon; I just used a different method.
I haven't really sponsored any site or project before, and I don't make much money, but I am genuinely desperate enough for a "conscientious Reddit alternative" that I will throw a few bucks a month to the developers.
I started out on Patreon with just $1 per month pre-invitation, but just upped it to $10 based solely on the initial content of the alpha users. As someone who remembers the early days of the Internet - and even back to BBSs - there is so much that has gone fundamentally wrong - amongst the many improvements. I really want Tildes to succeed - so my plan is to start off on Patreon at a fairly reasonable level for me ($10/month) considering the currently limited content, see where it goes and increase or decrease accordingly. I'd rather start off higher than it's currently worth in order to help ensure its success. I think Patreon's service charge is probably a bit high - but I believe there needs to be a service out there like Patreon and they seem best (if not only). The main criticism I have with Patreon is the lack of a clear ban policies and procedures - which could lead to issues we have seen before (need I list some?)...
I’ll never forget the disappointment and frustration in my parents when they finally got me the second phone line for my BBS, so that they could use their phone again, and all it meant was that 2 people could simultaneously connect to my sever. Sorry mom!
Edit: spellings
I'm broke, but I also personally think that if someone's starting something like this that they should generate their own capital from somewhere other than they're user base. Way too many of these ventures fail eventually and you'll never see anything for the money you've contributed.
I feel the same way about businesses that short change their employees so the owner can making a living wage. If you can't afford your endeavor with the ability to pay your employees the wage they deserve, you don't deserve to own a business plain and simple.
If this site is successful it's not like the money you invested is going to generate a monetary return. That's all going in someone else's pocket and they're not going to share. Even in a non profit situation they can pay themselves whatever they want.
Users utilizing the website and building up content so the site is successful is the only contribution a user should ever have to make. There's the investment in the website imo.
I think that clashes with the basic ethos @deimos is shooting for. You should check out the faq etc.
Not only clashes with the ethos but AFAIK is legally prohibited as well since non-profits in Canada cannot take on private investors since all profits must, by law, be reinvested back into the non-profit to further its aims/goals and ongoing projects. Non-profit specific loans and grants (both usually with strict requirements and obligations), yes... but not private investors/VC. Also, non-profit loans are risky for a startup and both them and grants often come with major strings attached. Both are also time consuming and difficult processes to navigate through unless you use a non-profit loan/grant application service but those tend to be expensive while also not guaranteed to get you any results.
It's just my opinion. I agree with everything but that. Especially if it's not exclusive eventually.
So, a question if you don't mind (not trying to cause a fight, honest, just genuinely curious)... but why are you here on ~ if you fundamentally disagree with one of the fundamental principles of the site? There is no obligation for anyone here to donate, but it seems a bit incongruous you would choose to inhabit a non-profit social media site that is founded on the principles of charity and relying on donations in order to run while disagreeing that it should. And, I'm also curious what you feel about Wikipedia if that is the case?
I'm interested in how I'm getting so much flack for a single opinion, when all of you had a conversation two weeks ago that was warm and fuzzy with an alt right Trump fan boy.
If any of you had done any research on the guy you'd have found out that his viewpoints run against pretty much every aspect of what this site stands for. And that's despite the fact that everyone fell for his 'reasonable alt right guy' schtick.
As far as Wikipedia goes, I'd say that websites that provide the educational content they do should be kept free of any outside influence when it comes to money. An entertainment site though? I dunno.
If that's the one thing I sort of disagree with I guess that apparently makes me worse than an alt right guy masquerading something they're not. Running through that thread and thinking about the fact that I've gotten five messages attacking me over this is just kind of a head shaker.
Guess we're finding out who the attack dogs are going to be.
You're not "getting flack", people are just disagreeing with you and explaining, rationally and calmly why. They aren't "attack dogs"... look at the rest of the thread. You're literally the only dissenting opinion about the donation model, so of course people are going to reply to you and attempt to explain their contrary positions. What else did you expect to happen?
And I tried my absolute best to make it 100% clear I wasn't attacking you or trying to start a fight. I was genuinely interested to hear you opinion on why you think ~ shouldn't rely on donations and was interested in knowing why you were on the site if you thought it shouldn't. Truly, I just wanted to understand your position. Although now I regret asking because of how personal you are taking all this.
Also, I have no idea what mumberthrax has to do with any of this, nor did anyone accuse you of being worse than an alt-righter... where are you getting that from?
I just think it's bizarre that one dissenting opinion of mine was met with force when that garbage was entertained for days. I think it's great if users who can manage to donate or want to do.
Some of us can't or won't. Unless there's a paid subscription model I don't know how you could enforce something like that. People pay in to start ups that fail all the time and get nothing out of it. If you donate 100 bucks and the site disappears on day for any reason, then you're not getting anything back on your investment.
If I were ever to be able to donate, it'd honestly have to be pretty proven and clearly sustainable long term as far as quality content and stuff goes. I thought it'd be enough to some extent to contribute content and conversation since that's half the equation anyway.
Met with force? You got 4 direct replies and none of them were personal attacks nor were they accusatory, derogatory or insulting in any way. You let your opinion be known, it's in the minority and so a few people who disagreed with you tried to calmly, rationally explain why they do.
Again, where are you getting this from? Nobody anywhere implied anyone must donate to use the site. I even explicitly stated otherwise in my question to you:
@deimos made a statement to similar effect in this very comment section as well.
Every service online gets controlled by the people paying for it.
Reddit is a mess because the people funding it want growth, growth, growth, with no regard for quality.
Tildes is built on the principle of not seeking external funding for this reason. If Tildes will be controlled by anyone funding it, the funders will be the users.
As they say, nothing is free, and if the users aren't paying for it directly with money then they'll be paying for it some other way. Deimos obviously has the capital to start with to host the site for a small collection of users; that isn't too hard. Unfortunately, if the site is to become something larger, then it will be impossible to just come in with some set amount of money already allocated to it (out of the sheer generosity of the site's operator, no less) and run off that until the end of time (unless Deimos is a billionaire, I suppose).
I think based on the site's goals, the users who will be most interested in this place will appreciate that a monetary sacrifice is a lesser one than a sacrifice of privacy. If all users contributed just a little bit, the site ought to be quite sustainable.
I just started at $2/mo because of this thread. If it happens to steal me away from the echo chamber that is reddit, I'll probably double it.
I see a lot of ways this community could go. Some I like, some I don't. Basically, if as time goes on it looks more like the kind of place I want to stick around in, I'll drop a donation. Almost did it yesterday but I don't want to feel bad about supporting something that turns out to be a negative space.
5 USD per month
Not yet but I will be in the future if this place continues on the path that it is now. As soon as I reorganize my financials I in for some amount a month.
I don’t, because I’m a minor without a credit card. The most I can do is PM him itunes gift card codes, but how much good would THAT be?
The site is only in alpha, so I'm not going to donate yet. Let's see how well it takes off. If I continue to use it beyond the alpha, then I believe I will continue to donate for as long as I post here and as long as it remains ad-free.
I'll be donating for an Android application.
As someone who just got here (this is my first comment/post), because I wanna see how this goes. If I end up spending as much time here as I do on Reddit, I'll gladly send some money their way. Which is kinda weird since I never felt compelled to help Reddit... huh...