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12 votes
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Democrat. Dictator. Which path will Thailand's Prayuth Chan-ocha choose?
6 votes -
Be It resolved: What you call "political correctness" I call "civility"
I'll level with you right now: I hate both of these terms. "Political Correctness" is a term that gets used by a lot of people to talk about what I would consider to be basic politeness ("don't...
I'll level with you right now: I hate both of these terms.
"Political Correctness" is a term that gets used by a lot of people to talk about what I would consider to be basic politeness ("don't intentionally offend someone if they've made it clear they don't like a word, or would prefer to be referred in a certain way; just try"). I have suspected for a while that what these people typically really mean when they talk about political correctness is a fatigue with feeling like they're being forced to meet standards of politeness that are decided by others, and which they do not share.
"Civility" is a term that gets used just about every way you can imagine. It can mean politeness, it can mean "nonviolent protest," it can mean voting, it can mean only certain kinds of protest, and it can mean meeting decorum (which is a more formal way of saying politeness, but it has its nuanced differences, so I suppose I'll list it, goddamn, twist my arm why don't you). The range of possible meanings makes it pretty annoying, and borderline useless to talk about directly.
The title of this thread is an intentional play on one of my frustrations with a munk debate which was shared about a month ago. I believed the terms were too dependent on who "you" are in the statement. So rather than have them redo the munk debate, I thought we could have one of our own.
I definitely have my own views on this claim (that I'll be sharing below), but this has been such an awkward issue on this site that I think it's worth exploring directly. So explore with me:
- Is there a difference between "political correctness" and "civility"?
- Is either term valuable to society?
- Why the hell are so many people so hot and bothered about these two terms, and also seemingly unable to interact meaningfully with anyone else?
21 votes -
A better reason to delay Kennedy’s replacement (People under the cloud of investigation do not get to pick the judges who may preside over their cases.)
14 votes -
Supreme Court Justice Kennedy is retiring
@kimberlyrobinsn: Justice Kennedy is retiring. #SCOTUS
63 votes -
Facebook chats from planning session of Unite The Right 2 have been leaked
17 votes -
A political scientist argues that the Democratic Party must play "procedural hardball" too: The Republicans aren’t engaged in a policy fight. instead, they’re waging a “procedural war.”
13 votes -
If you could scrap and rewrite the Constitution, what would you do differently? What would you change, add, or remove?
[Serious]
25 votes -
Tips for staying civil while debating child prisons
23 votes -
Inside the White House’s quiet campaign to create a Supreme Court opening
9 votes -
EU leaders reach breakthrough deal on migrant crisis
5 votes -
Australian Senate backs loot box investigation
7 votes -
Democrats are wrong about Republicans. Republicans are wrong about Democrats.
27 votes -
Parliament passes sweeping new foreign influence laws
3 votes -
'We need more time': Malcolm Turnbull government concedes defeat on Australian company tax cuts
3 votes -
Politics have always been divisive - A brief discussion on the Journal of Nicholas Cresswell (1774-1777)
2 votes -
Young, progressive, DSA-backed Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ousted ten-term incumbent in NY primary
31 votes -
US Supreme Court upholds Donald Trump travel ban
26 votes -
The Civility Debate Has Reached Peak Stupidity
23 votes -
In Louisiana, Trump's trade war spooks America's biggest port
5 votes -
Do you think "incivility" can be used as a tool for positive change?
I have been reading a lot of the articles on uncivility. A big complaint is politicians don't like the power it gives people. Which I understand can be bad, but it also seems like for the first...
I have been reading a lot of the articles on uncivility. A big complaint is politicians don't like the power it gives people. Which I understand can be bad, but it also seems like for the first time in a long time, the average person has a way to impact these high powered politicians. Ordinarily there is nothing we can do, we can't touch them when they continually do things not in the best interest of the people they represent. They do shady things, and we have to go with it.
They are arguing uncivility is dangerous because it creates the problem of officials being scared to make decisions based on how they will be impacted. If a judge rules one way, and the masses start making his life hard, they say it isn't really fair to the judge. Which makes sense.
This is the information age. We have access to so much more going on than adults did before us. We actually have platforms to be heard on a large scale. Which means pressuring these people to do right through "uncivility" could be harnessed and used positively to enforce change. If the people making these decisions that are not in our best interest have something to lose, maybe they will finally start doing right by us.
What are your thoughts on this aspect of the uncivility debate going on right now?
16 votes -
Whistleblower leaks video from detention facility where children were threatened against speaking to press
17 votes -
How James Comey intervened to kill WikiLeaks' US immunity deal
4 votes -
Australia to spend nearly $7 billion buying unmanned military planes from America
5 votes -
Chinese tech giant Huawei revealed as leading sponsor of travel for Australian MPs
3 votes -
'The Expanse' co-author Daniel Abraham tells the inside story about sci-fi books, TV … and politics
8 votes -
In Turkish election, jailed candidate seeks presidency and to keep Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's party below majority in parliament
14 votes -
BMW joins Airbus in Brexit warning
8 votes -
Venezuela crisis: UN says security forces killed hundreds
12 votes -
China just handed the world a 111-million-ton trash problem
17 votes -
Ethiopian prime minister vows to stick to reforms after explosion at rally. Abiy Ahmed commented on Addis Ababa blast that killed one and injured more than 100, saying ‘killing others is a defeat’.
7 votes -
A world for all of us, not just the billionaires
12 votes -
First lady’s ‘I don’t care’ jacket causes a stir
14 votes -
DOJ: Trump's immigration crackdown 'diverting' resources from drug cases
6 votes -
Send them to Taiwan: Turnbull government's secret refugee deal revealed
2 votes -
Algeria shuts down the internet for two hours to prevent leaks and cheating on exams
9 votes -
US President Donald Trump proposes ending the crisis he created by creating another crisis -- The proposed executive order ending family separation is just here to create more hostages
11 votes -
Who here is eligible to vote but not registered to vote?
The USA in particular has one of the lowest voter turnouts and the lowest registration levels of most developed countries....
The USA in particular has one of the lowest voter turnouts and the lowest registration levels of most developed countries.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/21/u-s-voter-turnout-trails-most-developed-countries/
In 2016 only 61% of eligible citizens voted and only 70% were registered.
https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/voting-and-registration/p20-580.html
And that was a good year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout#Trends_of_decreasing_turnout_since_the_1980s
10 votes -
ABC will launch a ‘Roseanne’ spinoff without Roseanne in it
9 votes -
Violence keeps Central Americans coming to US despite Trump
3 votes -
The identifying terms we use (and the political history behind them)
Today's political climate has all sorts of terms being thrown around with varying meanings and history behind them. There are Liberals (political ideology for FREEDUM), and Liberals (foreign...
Today's political climate has all sorts of terms being thrown around with varying meanings and history behind them. There are Liberals (political ideology for FREEDUM), and Liberals (foreign policy), and Liberals (economic policy), and Liberals ("conservatives"), and Liberals ("centrist, anti-absolute monarchists"), and Liberals ("democrats"), and Liberals (some other field that annoys the shit out of me). There are Progressives, and Conservatives, Nationalists, Socialists, Social Democrats, unreconstructed Monarchists, Reconstructed Monarchists, Anarchists, and I'm sure some other political identity that I've missed.
So, given the rather long list of ways to identify politically, and the just about as long history for those ways to identify politically, I thought we should have a discussion focused exclusively on the political history of the terms we used.
So, the questions:
1. What terms do you commonly use to describe yourself and others in your political environment? 2. What is the relevant history that informs the way you use common political terms to describe yourself and others? 3. Got any links, movies, books, etc., that delve into that history?
This has the potential to get hairy because of how broad it is, so I'm going to try to remind people of some best practices that I use when engaging in meaningful discussion:
- Understand before criticizing. - Be able to frame someone's view in a way that they can agree with themselves before critiquing their view. Questions are your friend, but make sure the questions are focused on better understanding someone's view, not on biasing reactions to a view.
- Assume good faith. - Calling people "trolls" makes me very angry. Don't do it. For any reason. To anyone. If your case is so bulletproof that you'd be willing to call someone out for it here, take it to @Deimos instead. I don't want to read it here.
- I Could Be Wrong - There is nothing wrong with having confidence in your view, but there should be some part of you that recognizes you can be wrong about whatever claim you make. Nothing is 100%. Absolutely Only Sith Deal In Absolutes, etc.
11 votes -
How Identity, Not Issues, Explains the Partisan Divide
4 votes -
Migrants and refugees are good for economies: Analysis of thirty years of data from Western Europe refutes suggestions that asylum seekers pose a financial burden
6 votes -
Jeff Sessions: "We don't want to separate parents from kids"
6 votes -
US President Donald Trump's new executive order on immigration is not a "reversal": The mass detention and deportation of asylum-seekers has been his plan all along
5 votes -
California's Net Neutrality bill has been gutted
26 votes -
Senate passes sweeping income tax cut plan
4 votes -
Victoria passes Aboriginal treaty bill
3 votes -
In reversal, Trump signs order stopping family separation
34 votes -
We don't lock people in cages
I'm a bit behind the news cycle, but I saw the first images of the families being separated on the news last night. I'm aghast. I'm just so utterly confused. Not addressing the issue of...
I'm a bit behind the news cycle, but I saw the first images of the families being separated on the news last night. I'm aghast. I'm just so utterly confused. Not addressing the issue of immigration or even the splitting up of families...
We don't fucking lock people in cages.
(Sidepoint: I know prisons exist, but this is a very different situation.)
36 votes