That's a title that is way more harmful than you think. I file this firmly under my "Breathing oxygen will lead to death" category. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old guy or the fact I did loads of...
That's a title that is way more harmful than you think.
I file this firmly under my "Breathing oxygen will lead to death" category.
Maybe I'm just a grumpy old guy or the fact I did loads of stupid things (still do) that make my children say "It's a wonder you're still alive Dad" but this, to me, is one of those articles that's full of potentially etc. etc. and is basically scare-mongering rubbish.
From the article itself:
can do more harm than good
can cause problems
potential damage to the cornea
may even be one of the foremost causes of keratoconus
Some people think that eye rubbing
You can see the weasel words here: can, may, potentially, think.
I mean yes, you might become one of the 0.04% of people with keratoconus but let me just say here, this is just how many people have it, not how they got it and certainly they don't mention anything about it being linked to rubbing your eye in the article. Notice how I had to say might here; another of those words.
And the scary:
Your hands, teeming with bacteria and pathogens
is the icing on the cake isn't it.
Whether we're supposed to live dirtier and over-sanitisation has led to the rise of allergies and so on isn't for me to say but adding eye-rubbing to the list of deadly things we do is so small a consideration that the article and fear-mongering that is does are probably more harmful than rubbing your eye if it itches.
This is the only time I saw the article mention how hard you'd have to rub to potentially cause damage. Babies rub their eyes, it's a natural reflex. I had to unlearn it when I started wearing...
“If you rub hard enough, you're significantly indenting the globe — the front of the eye towards the back,” says Douglas Lazzaro, an ophthalmologist at New York University Langone Health.
This is the only time I saw the article mention how hard you'd have to rub to potentially cause damage.
Babies rub their eyes, it's a natural reflex. I had to unlearn it when I started wearing contacts so they wouldn't go wandering around. The problems you usually see with older adults are cataracts (will happen if you live long enough) and glaucoma.
You reaction goes too far in the other direction, IMO. It's just an article warning about the potential risks of rubbing your eyes, which I personally found interesting. And it's not like it's...
You reaction goes too far in the other direction, IMO. It's just an article warning about the potential risks of rubbing your eyes, which I personally found interesting. And it's not like it's pure conjecture by the author... the article features quotes from two University professors (an allergist and an optometrist) and a University hospital ophthalmologist, who are presumably more well-informed on this issue than we are. And I think the warning about rubbing your eyes after you've had LASIK is 100% legit because hospitals and vision clinics warning patients against that is pretty standard.
p.s. Loads of people actually do get pinkeye every year from rubbing their eyes, so mentioning the bacteria and pathogens issue isn't crazy fear mongering either.
Researching this a little bit... overly-vigorous or excessive rubbing may be a cause of keratoconus but they really don't know what causes it and that isn't listed as a possible cause in a lot of...
Exemplary
Researching this a little bit... overly-vigorous or excessive rubbing may be a cause of keratoconus but they really don't know what causes it and that isn't listed as a possible cause in a lot of theories.
Not only that I went to look at the study but it's paywalled. Having said that nowhere in the listed Purpose, Design, Methods, Results or Conclusions does it mention eye-rubbing.
Hopefully if you have LASIK they emphasise the need to resist rubbing your eyes. I'll agree that is definitely something that should make clear.
This was actually the purpose of the study — PURPOSE To assess the prevalence and economic burden of keratoconus in the United States. It doesn't even mention trying to find a cause or studying eye-rubbing.
I'm sorry but by every measure this is a lazy alarmist article and imo the energy expended writing it would be better used elsewhere.
mentioning
teeming with..
Finally the title "More harmful than you think" Well, I'd argue most people think it may be a little harmful, which it turns out, is correct.
Sorry for the rambling/ranting but stuff like this winds me up.
Sure but how many of those pinkeye cases would be prevented with just better handwashing habits? Is it the fact they rubbed their eye or the fact there's shit on their hands that got in their eye?...
Sure but how many of those pinkeye cases would be prevented with just better handwashing habits? Is it the fact they rubbed their eye or the fact there's shit on their hands that got in their eye?
And I understand that our hands always have bacteria on them and eyes are a particularly exposed area that is very amenable to bacterial populations and easy entry into the blood stream. But generally we've evolved systems to combat general environmental exposure to infection. Like is opening your eyes under water exposing your eyes to less bacteria than rubbing your eyes with "relatively" clean hands?
I'm all for risk minimization and if someone has itchy eyes it's probably best not to be rubbing them constantly. But I agree with the original commentator that headlines/articles like this get taken too far by germophobes and some outlets take advantage of this. Weasel words really undermine the point, they could just reports hard numbers and effect sizes with advice from experts without "it could maybe possible be a potential cause for this other condition."
Seriously. People will write or say stuff like this, then go get into their car (car accidents are the third leading cause of death in the US). And they won’t even think twice. Or, heck, they’ll...
Seriously. People will write or say stuff like this, then go get into their car (car crashes accidents are the third leading cause of death in the US). And they won’t even think twice.
Or, heck, they’ll continue eating the American Standard Diet (ASD). The connection between that and heart disease is doubtlessly much better established than what this article hand-waves at. Heart disease is of course the leading cause of death in the US.
Yeah of all the things we do starting to worry about rubbing our eyes should be very, very, very far down our list. Unless of course you rub abnormally hard or for an abnormal length of time. I...
Yeah of all the things we do starting to worry about rubbing our eyes should be very, very, very far down our list. Unless of course you rub abnormally hard or for an abnormal length of time.
I suppose the headline "Are you in the 0.04% that may possibly just a very slim chance but we don't really know may have got from rubbing you eyes.. oh and in fact that's not what we were studying anyway we were just counting?" wouldn't do it though.
The article loses some cred by incorrectly referencing histamines as antihistamines (why is it my job to fix this?), and its tone is on the alarmist side, but the message is still valid - rubbing...
The article loses some cred by incorrectly referencing histamines as antihistamines (why is it my job to fix this?), and its tone is on the alarmist side, but the message is still valid - rubbing your eyes is not a good practice.
Evolution (probably) made sure it wouldn't kill us or keep us from breeding, it doesn't have a lot of impact on whether we can read in a well-lit room when we're 65. I don't actually think you're...
Evolution (probably) made sure it wouldn't kill us or keep us from breeding, it doesn't have a lot of impact on whether we can read in a well-lit room when we're 65.
I don't actually think you're wrong about it not being that big of a deal, but evolution isn't good evidence of that.
You're correct ofc and I think I mucked up the point I was trying to make there. It was along the lines of, if it was a serious problem evolution would have sorted it along the way somewhere so...
You're correct ofc and I think I mucked up the point I was trying to make there.
It was along the lines of, if it was a serious problem evolution would have sorted it along the way somewhere so it's probably not as big of a deal as the article states. But as you can see from the word salad, I'm not sure I had a point or if there was, could/can articulate it correctly. Sorry.
Ah, evolution only cares that it is good enough. It was good enough for when our lifespans were a lot more shortened due to not having science and stuff to overcome diseases and ailments and even...
Ah, evolution only cares that it is good enough. It was good enough for when our lifespans were a lot more shortened due to not having science and stuff to overcome diseases and ailments and even born with disabilities. Meaning that rubbing your eyes probably isn't bad for a "natural" lifespan of a human before you factor in our way of life has been heavily influenced by ways to overcome nature. But that doesn't mean for as long as our lives are now that it won't have effects over the long run.
Also, evolution also evolved our cells in a way that they age themselves and that cancer happens... so, evolution doesn't always mean it is the best way to do things. Just that it was good enough to keep our species going.
I'm with you all the way here. In the context of the harm of rubbing your eyes, it's plenty good enough. Even for our modern lifespans. So much that you don't need to worry about rubbing your...
I'm with you all the way here.
In the context of the harm of rubbing your eyes, it's plenty good enough. Even for our modern lifespans. So much that you don't need to worry about rubbing your eyes. The only evidence that it is harmful over our current lifespan is if you do it excessively or overly vigorously, and even that evidence is minimal. It certainly doesn't warrant the article imo.
If my body doesn't want my eyes injured it can stop reacting every time a tree releases pollen somewhere in a 20 mile radius. This is clearly a hostage situation at this point so there will be no...
Exemplary
If my body doesn't want my eyes injured it can stop reacting every time a tree releases pollen somewhere in a 20 mile radius.
This is clearly a hostage situation at this point so there will be no winners.
Every spring and fall (at least in certain parts of the world) I have a few weeks where my eyes are constantly itchy and the only thing that relieves the itch is to rub them...but when I do that,...
Every spring and fall (at least in certain parts of the world) I have a few weeks where my eyes are constantly itchy and the only thing that relieves the itch is to rub them...but when I do that, my eyes start to hurt. The only thing that relieves that pain is to rub them more. But as soon as I'm done rubbing, they hurt even more. It pretty quickly gets to the point where I can't open them (or at least one of them). My eyes get dried out from the rubbing to the point that it feels like there is something stuck under my eyelid, which just makes me want to rub them even more. So I have to decide how itchy vs painful and red and blond I want my eyes to be. That's before all the other allergy symptoms and the inability to breathe through my nose whatsoever.
In high school, I had a coach ask me if I was high because my eyes were so bloodshot, this year I had multiple people tell me they thought I had pink eye. It sucks. It's definitely the worst time of the year for me. Luckily it ended within the past week.
I would recommend getting a sinus rinse kit. My allergies are primarily congestion, so doing a sinus rinse made a lot of sense. I also get itchy eyes, and I expected the sinus rinse to do almost...
I would recommend getting a sinus rinse kit. My allergies are primarily congestion, so doing a sinus rinse made a lot of sense. I also get itchy eyes, and I expected the sinus rinse to do almost nothing for that. To my surprise, it actually reduced the itching by quite a bit. My regimen now is a daily antihistamine tablet and a sinus rinse as needed.
Yep, although my doctor recommended against a classic neti pot. He recommended the NeilMed squeeze bottle sinus rinse because it can be more forceful. I have also heard that they are a bit safer...
Yep, although my doctor recommended against a classic neti pot. He recommended the NeilMed squeeze bottle sinus rinse because it can be more forceful. I have also heard that they are a bit safer in terms of being sterile. I haven’t had any problems so far.
UGH, that sounds awful. I'm lucky to have lighter allergies than that, but tree pollen is only my suspected suspect. I'm starting to wonder if it's cornfield-related instead, or even better, BOTH....
UGH, that sounds awful. I'm lucky to have lighter allergies than that, but tree pollen is only my suspected suspect. I'm starting to wonder if it's cornfield-related instead, or even better, BOTH.
I hope there's something that can help your itchy eyes. Allergy drops? :(
Eye drops have worked wonders for me. Ones with antihistamines in them but also simple over the counter ones with salt water if my eyes still happen to break into itchiness - the relief is nearly...
Eye drops have worked wonders for me. Ones with antihistamines in them but also simple over the counter ones with salt water if my eyes still happen to break into itchiness - the relief is nearly instant! It feels the same way as drinking a glass of cold water after hours of being thirsty
Drops help but I have a physical aversion to them. Like I'm not afraid of them at all but I cannot stop my body from physically recoiling from them. It's so weird. I have to drop them into the...
Drops help but I have a physical aversion to them. Like I'm not afraid of them at all but I cannot stop my body from physically recoiling from them. It's so weird. I have to drop them into the corners of my eyes and then let them spread into my eyes. All the other tricks I have tried have barely worked.
But I have found that Astepro nasal spray 2x daily combined with Zyrtec in the mornings has worked pretty well.
Oh I get that, I am not good at getting drops in my eye, the anticipation Is awful but I can usually get there. (I cannot however pour anything up my nose, nasal spray I hate but can do, neti pot?...
Oh I get that, I am not good at getting drops in my eye, the anticipation Is awful but I can usually get there. (I cannot however pour anything up my nose, nasal spray I hate but can do, neti pot? Absolutely the fuck not)
Then don't. Close your eyes, drop the liquid into the corners by your nose and then blink rapidly to spread the liquid. Ideally wash your eye corners before, but I never had any issues without it.
Then don't. Close your eyes, drop the liquid into the corners by your nose and then blink rapidly to spread the liquid.
Ideally wash your eye corners before, but I never had any issues without it.
Pouring a Neti Pot up (down?) my nose sounds very unsettling--things should not go up and into my nose! But I probably sniffle so often that I'm used to sucking (what is more or less) liquid up my...
Pouring a Neti Pot up (down?) my nose sounds very unsettling--things should not go up and into my nose!
But I probably sniffle so often that I'm used to sucking (what is more or less) liquid up my nose so it might not be too weird.
I blame being a swimmer and learning to keep positive air pressure in my nose. Water just does not belong there. Nasal spray only sneaks by briefly. I got a septum piercing and the nose baths were...
I blame being a swimmer and learning to keep positive air pressure in my nose. Water just does not belong there. Nasal spray only sneaks by briefly.
I got a septum piercing and the nose baths were tragic.
Interestingly, I was a swimmer for years and have the opposite reaction. Blowing air out my nose is air I can’t breathe, so water just goes where it’s gunna go. My nose is just a place for water...
Interestingly, I was a swimmer for years and have the opposite reaction. Blowing air out my nose is air I can’t breathe, so water just goes where it’s gunna go. My nose is just a place for water until it decides to leave.
I swear I don't constantly blow air out, it's just like, a positive air pressure thing. But also I haven't swam in years so it's definitely not something I can interrogate rationally.
I swear I don't constantly blow air out, it's just like, a positive air pressure thing. But also I haven't swam in years so it's definitely not something I can interrogate rationally.
That, in particular, sounds like what it feels like to have (slightly) scratched the surface of your eyeballs. It’s difficult to describe because it kinda feels like there’s something stuck under...
to the point that it feels like there is something stuck under my eyelid
That, in particular, sounds like what it feels like to have (slightly) scratched the surface of your eyeballs.
It’s difficult to describe because it kinda feels like there’s something stuck under the eyelid… But at the same time, even completely flooding my eyes with tears doesn’t feel like it dislodges anything, so that’s when I know it’s scratched rather than actually having something stuck there.
Minor scratches like that can heal, but still I’d recommend looking into medical advice (if doctor visits are expensive, I believe chemists and pharmacists are usually free to just ask for advice?) to try to get your allergies under control. You shouldn’t need to just put up with allergies bad enough to affect you like that, you deserve relief!
Yeah, I've been wanting to do allergy shots, but they stopped doing them locally so I have to drive 45 minutes to the nearest place, meaning that it's like a 3.5 hour total commitment every week...
Yeah, I've been wanting to do allergy shots, but they stopped doing them locally so I have to drive 45 minutes to the nearest place, meaning that it's like a 3.5 hour total commitment every week or every other week for months.
I have problems with itchy eyes and medicine doesn't help but honestly, rubbing them just makes them itch more and makes me want to rub them more. It certianly feels good while I am rubbing them...
I have problems with itchy eyes and medicine doesn't help but honestly, rubbing them just makes them itch more and makes me want to rub them more. It certianly feels good while I am rubbing them but it makes them worse afterwords.
Sounds like we occupied the same or analogous parts of the world for awhile. Every year from about April to early June I would also have maddeningly itchy eyes and the only cures were intense...
Sounds like we occupied the same or analogous parts of the world for awhile. Every year from about April to early June I would also have maddeningly itchy eyes and the only cures were intense rubbing, cold showers, or a heavy dose of antihistamines.
Thankfully I've moved very far away from that yellow inferno of tree sex and I don't suffer anymore. I think it's a combination of a later start to spring and different tree species. I didn't even just swap one set of allergies for another, I have little to no reaction to any pollen here and I consider myself extremely lucky.
This doesn't help but I commiserate with you and hope you ultimately find relief in one fashion or another.
For me the issue isn't even allergies, it's eyelashes and cat hairs. I constantly have eyelashes and cat hairs in my eyes, and a cold compress isn't going to remove them. I've been told that...
For me the issue isn't even allergies, it's eyelashes and cat hairs. I constantly have eyelashes and cat hairs in my eyes, and a cold compress isn't going to remove them. I've been told that blinking is supposed to increase the tear production and wash them out, but that's never worked, and neither has rinsing them with actual water. I have to physically stick my finger in my eye to remove the physical source of my discomfort or it will never go away. I honestly don't know how else to function.
Whenever I get something stuck in my eye, which happens a lot when I'm landscaping, I grab my top eyelashes, and use them to pull/lift my eyelid away from my eyeball for a few seconds. Doing that...
Whenever I get something stuck in my eye, which happens a lot when I'm landscaping, I grab my top eyelashes, and use them to pull/lift my eyelid away from my eyeball for a few seconds. Doing that usually causes my eye to start watering like crazy, making the debris easier to flush out when rapidly blinking afterwards. You should give that a try next time.
I've tried that! Even if I can work up a bunch of tears, it doesn't seem to move the hair. It's like my eyeballs are incredibly sticky or something. Sometimes that makes it go under one of my...
I've tried that! Even if I can work up a bunch of tears, it doesn't seem to move the hair. It's like my eyeballs are incredibly sticky or something. Sometimes that makes it go under one of my eyelids, which is just so much worse.
Are you 100% positive of what is stuck under your eyelid? Because it totally feels like something is stuck under my eyelids when I rub them but it's just the dryness causing sticking.
Are you 100% positive of what is stuck under your eyelid? Because it totally feels like something is stuck under my eyelids when I rub them but it's just the dryness causing sticking.
Yes, I can usually see the eyelash or cat hair if I look in a mirror. If possible I try to find it in a mirror first before I touch my eye so that I'm touching it as little as possible.
Yes, I can usually see the eyelash or cat hair if I look in a mirror. If possible I try to find it in a mirror first before I touch my eye so that I'm touching it as little as possible.
I got so fed up with eyelashes and eyebrow hairs getting into my eyes that I adopted this habit, which I highly recommend: Every day, gentle tug all along your eyelashes and eyebrows to pull out...
I got so fed up with eyelashes and eyebrow hairs getting into my eyes that I adopted this habit, which I highly recommend:
Every day, gentle tug all along your eyelashes and eyebrows to pull out any loose hairs. I usually get a few loose hairs per day, so getting rid of them manually can dramatically reduce the risk of one of them randomly falling into your eyes.
That's the only way I've ever been able to remove eyelashes. I have noticed that if I press on/close my tear ducts, my eyes will feel less dry. Tear ducts are where tears leave the eye, so it...
That's the only way I've ever been able to remove eyelashes.
I have noticed that if I press on/close my tear ducts, my eyes will feel less dry. Tear ducts are where tears leave the eye, so it makes sense. I've never seen it discussed as helping remove anything, though. I'm more concerned about something scratching my cornea than I am about removing that thing with a clean finger.
Lol, I adore this framing. My immune system, in its ever-vigilant and fiercely loyal attempt to protect me, is all “I WILL KILL YOU MYSELF BEFORE I LET THESE TREES DO IT.” Meanwhile I’m just like,...
Lol, I adore this framing.
My immune system, in its ever-vigilant and fiercely loyal attempt to protect me, is all “I WILL KILL YOU MYSELF BEFORE I LET THESE TREES DO IT.”
Meanwhile I’m just like, exhaustedly pleading with it through sniffles and tears, trying to let it know that nobody actually has to die here and that the trees are actually kind and lovely.
But my immune system doesn’t care. Can’t let its guard down — especially not with murderous flowers lurking around…
Ugh, autoimmune stuff is so frustrating, from allergies to T1 diabetes, to well everything. Like, please immune system, you have one job. You run security. It's ok to not do EXTRA SECURITY to...
Ugh, autoimmune stuff is so frustrating, from allergies to T1 diabetes, to well everything. Like, please immune system, you have one job. You run security. It's ok to not do EXTRA SECURITY to protect me from tree jizz.
Sleep crusties. That's cause #1 for me, and I've found a quick face wash takes care of it no problem....real annoying if I have to hurry out of the house though.
Sleep crusties. That's cause #1 for me, and I've found a quick face wash takes care of it no problem....real annoying if I have to hurry out of the house though.
I completely stopped rubbing my eyes at a young age; breaking the habit made my eyes way less itchy and the thought of doing it now seems very horrifying and gross. As someone with perpetual...
I completely stopped rubbing my eyes at a young age; breaking the habit made my eyes way less itchy and the thought of doing it now seems very horrifying and gross. As someone with perpetual allergies, I now use antihistamines and routinely dab my eye with a bit of water after washing my hands. When something gets stuck in my eye, I splash it some water, blink a bunch, close my eyes then stroke from the caruncle towards the other end of the eye with the tip of my finger.
The most frequent cause of eye rubbing for me is for muscle relief when they’re fatigued in the evening hours or occasionally in the mornings after nights where my eye muscles have become...
The most frequent cause of eye rubbing for me is for muscle relief when they’re fatigued in the evening hours or occasionally in the mornings after nights where my eye muscles have become hyper-relaxed during sleep and need a little prodding to get fully operational again, not unlike having to stretch after sitting through a long movie. The proposed solutions don’t really do anything for either case.
Who is rubbing their eyes directly??? 😨 I think the entire article is over-exaggerating. From what I gather, rubbing your eye signals to your cells that something is damaged causing them to...
do it gently through the upper lids
Who is rubbing their eyes directly??? 😨
I think the entire article is over-exaggerating. From what I gather, rubbing your eye signals to your cells that something is damaged causing them to release enzymes to break down the damaged area in preparation for healing. Some people produce too much of these enzymes which leads to loosening the fibers and causing keratoconus. If you aren't predisposed to overproducing the enzymes, rubbing or pressing the eyes won't do anything, there's not enough data on Keratoconus to even say if excessive rubbing alone will cause it. I would expect far more people who get itchy eyes from allergies to have it if rubbing alone caused it and you'd expect to see it among older people, not 18-39, as it can take years to get bad.
Ugh... I'm horrible about this. And I always assumed it is bad for my eyes (every time I see the eye doctor now I keep worrying they are going to find my eyes are in horrible shape due to my eye...
Ugh... I'm horrible about this. And I always assumed it is bad for my eyes (every time I see the eye doctor now I keep worrying they are going to find my eyes are in horrible shape due to my eye itching). I have very little willpower when it comes to do not scratch. And anti allergy medicines do almost nothing to keep my eyes from itching in my experience.
Yeah, I tried drops my eye doctor recommended and they don't do much at all. And I'm not sure it would be due to dry eyes as many times my eyes get watery too at the same time. But if it makes...
Yeah, I tried drops my eye doctor recommended and they don't do much at all. And I'm not sure it would be due to dry eyes as many times my eyes get watery too at the same time. But if it makes sense I know I had problems with contacts drying my eyes really easy back in college (I don't do contacts anymore. Found glasses I don't feel so dorky in and contacts pissed me off with how dry my eyes would get).
Oh, "dry eyes" doesn't necessarily mean they're dry. It can be from a lack of tears sure, but it can also be from something wrong with your tears. Your tears form 3 layers on your eye call "tear...
Oh, "dry eyes" doesn't necessarily mean they're dry. It can be from a lack of tears sure, but it can also be from something wrong with your tears. Your tears form 3 layers on your eye call "tear film". The layers are mucus, water and lipids. If something is wrong with any of those then your eyes can become irritated. My mother has this issue and uses special eye drops that mimic healthy tears.
That's a title that is way more harmful than you think.
I file this firmly under my "Breathing oxygen will lead to death" category.
Maybe I'm just a grumpy old guy or the fact I did loads of stupid things (still do) that make my children say "It's a wonder you're still alive Dad" but this, to me, is one of those articles that's full of potentially etc. etc. and is basically scare-mongering rubbish.
From the article itself:
You can see the weasel words here: can, may, potentially, think.
I mean yes, you might become one of the 0.04% of people with keratoconus but let me just say here, this is just how many people have it, not how they got it and certainly they don't mention anything about it being linked to rubbing your eye in the article. Notice how I had to say might here; another of those words.
And the scary:
is the icing on the cake isn't it.
Whether we're supposed to live dirtier and over-sanitisation has led to the rise of allergies and so on isn't for me to say but adding eye-rubbing to the list of deadly things we do is so small a consideration that the article and fear-mongering that is does are probably more harmful than rubbing your eye if it itches.
This is the only time I saw the article mention how hard you'd have to rub to potentially cause damage.
Babies rub their eyes, it's a natural reflex. I had to unlearn it when I started wearing contacts so they wouldn't go wandering around. The problems you usually see with older adults are cataracts (will happen if you live long enough) and glaucoma.
I found a study where eye rubbing causes glaucoma!
That's not normal. Even with really bad allergies I don't think most people would do that.
I appreciate your diligence. Thanks.
This is exactly my take here. No definitive words, only passive weasel words so that his inflammatory statements cant be said to be incorrect
You reaction goes too far in the other direction, IMO. It's just an article warning about the potential risks of rubbing your eyes, which I personally found interesting. And it's not like it's pure conjecture by the author... the article features quotes from two University professors (an allergist and an optometrist) and a University hospital ophthalmologist, who are presumably more well-informed on this issue than we are. And I think the warning about rubbing your eyes after you've had LASIK is 100% legit because hospitals and vision clinics warning patients against that is pretty standard.
p.s. Loads of people actually do get pinkeye every year from rubbing their eyes, so mentioning the bacteria and pathogens issue isn't crazy fear mongering either.
Researching this a little bit... overly-vigorous or excessive rubbing may be a cause of keratoconus but they really don't know what causes it and that isn't listed as a possible cause in a lot of theories.
Not only that I went to look at the study but it's paywalled. Having said that nowhere in the listed Purpose, Design, Methods, Results or Conclusions does it mention eye-rubbing.
Hopefully if you have LASIK they emphasise the need to resist rubbing your eyes. I'll agree that is definitely something that should make clear.
This was actually the purpose of the study — PURPOSE To assess the prevalence and economic burden of keratoconus in the United States. It doesn't even mention trying to find a cause or studying eye-rubbing.
I'm sorry but by every measure this is a lazy alarmist article and imo the energy expended writing it would be better used elsewhere.
teeming with..
Finally the title "More harmful than you think" Well, I'd argue most people think it may be a little harmful, which it turns out, is correct.
Sorry for the rambling/ranting but stuff like this winds me up.
Sure but how many of those pinkeye cases would be prevented with just better handwashing habits? Is it the fact they rubbed their eye or the fact there's shit on their hands that got in their eye?
And I understand that our hands always have bacteria on them and eyes are a particularly exposed area that is very amenable to bacterial populations and easy entry into the blood stream. But generally we've evolved systems to combat general environmental exposure to infection. Like is opening your eyes under water exposing your eyes to less bacteria than rubbing your eyes with "relatively" clean hands?
I'm all for risk minimization and if someone has itchy eyes it's probably best not to be rubbing them constantly. But I agree with the original commentator that headlines/articles like this get taken too far by germophobes and some outlets take advantage of this. Weasel words really undermine the point, they could just reports hard numbers and effect sizes with advice from experts without "it could maybe possible be a potential cause for this other condition."
Seriously. People will write or say stuff like this, then go get into their car (car
crashesaccidents are the third leading cause of death in the US). And they won’t even think twice.Or, heck, they’ll continue eating the American Standard Diet (ASD). The connection between that and heart disease is doubtlessly much better established than what this article hand-waves at. Heart disease is of course the leading cause of death in the US.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
Yeah of all the things we do starting to worry about rubbing our eyes should be very, very, very far down our list. Unless of course you rub abnormally hard or for an abnormal length of time.
I suppose the headline "Are you in the 0.04% that may possibly just a very slim chance but we don't really know may have got from rubbing you eyes.. oh and in fact that's not what we were studying anyway we were just counting?" wouldn't do it though.
Get ready for few products to safely itch your eye
I only want it if it comes with a LLM-powered AI to correctly identify if I’m rubbing my eyes too hard based on an always-on cloud-based video feed
LOL True.
The article loses some cred by incorrectly referencing histamines as antihistamines (why is it my job to fix this?), and its tone is on the alarmist side, but the message is still valid - rubbing your eyes is not a good practice.
Excessive or overly vigorous rubbing — I'll give you that. Just rubbing your eyes, I'm sorry I'm gonna bow down to evolution for evidence it's fine.
and it applies to almost everything in life.
Absolutely.
Evolution (probably) made sure it wouldn't kill us or keep us from breeding, it doesn't have a lot of impact on whether we can read in a well-lit room when we're 65.
I don't actually think you're wrong about it not being that big of a deal, but evolution isn't good evidence of that.
You're correct ofc and I think I mucked up the point I was trying to make there.
It was along the lines of, if it was a serious problem evolution would have sorted it along the way somewhere so it's probably not as big of a deal as the article states. But as you can see from the word salad, I'm not sure I had a point or if there was, could/can articulate it correctly. Sorry.
Ah, evolution only cares that it is good enough. It was good enough for when our lifespans were a lot more shortened due to not having science and stuff to overcome diseases and ailments and even born with disabilities. Meaning that rubbing your eyes probably isn't bad for a "natural" lifespan of a human before you factor in our way of life has been heavily influenced by ways to overcome nature. But that doesn't mean for as long as our lives are now that it won't have effects over the long run.
Also, evolution also evolved our cells in a way that they age themselves and that cancer happens... so, evolution doesn't always mean it is the best way to do things. Just that it was good enough to keep our species going.
I'm with you all the way here.
In the context of the harm of rubbing your eyes, it's plenty good enough. Even for our modern lifespans. So much that you don't need to worry about rubbing your eyes. The only evidence that it is harmful over our current lifespan is if you do it excessively or overly vigorously, and even that evidence is minimal. It certainly doesn't warrant the article imo.
If my body doesn't want my eyes injured it can stop reacting every time a tree releases pollen somewhere in a 20 mile radius.
This is clearly a hostage situation at this point so there will be no winners.
(A cold compress really is a good idea though)
Every spring and fall (at least in certain parts of the world) I have a few weeks where my eyes are constantly itchy and the only thing that relieves the itch is to rub them...but when I do that, my eyes start to hurt. The only thing that relieves that pain is to rub them more. But as soon as I'm done rubbing, they hurt even more. It pretty quickly gets to the point where I can't open them (or at least one of them). My eyes get dried out from the rubbing to the point that it feels like there is something stuck under my eyelid, which just makes me want to rub them even more. So I have to decide how itchy vs painful and red and blond I want my eyes to be. That's before all the other allergy symptoms and the inability to breathe through my nose whatsoever.
In high school, I had a coach ask me if I was high because my eyes were so bloodshot, this year I had multiple people tell me they thought I had pink eye. It sucks. It's definitely the worst time of the year for me. Luckily it ended within the past week.
I would recommend getting a sinus rinse kit. My allergies are primarily congestion, so doing a sinus rinse made a lot of sense. I also get itchy eyes, and I expected the sinus rinse to do almost nothing for that. To my surprise, it actually reduced the itching by quite a bit. My regimen now is a daily antihistamine tablet and a sinus rinse as needed.
Sinus rinse as in like a Neti Pot?
Yep, although my doctor recommended against a classic neti pot. He recommended the NeilMed squeeze bottle sinus rinse because it can be more forceful. I have also heard that they are a bit safer in terms of being sterile. I haven’t had any problems so far.
Amazon example
UGH, that sounds awful. I'm lucky to have lighter allergies than that, but tree pollen is only my suspected suspect. I'm starting to wonder if it's cornfield-related instead, or even better, BOTH.
I hope there's something that can help your itchy eyes. Allergy drops? :(
Eye drops have worked wonders for me. Ones with antihistamines in them but also simple over the counter ones with salt water if my eyes still happen to break into itchiness - the relief is nearly instant! It feels the same way as drinking a glass of cold water after hours of being thirsty
Same. In emergency just rinsing them with cold tap water and bearing with dryness for a bit helps a lot.
Drops help but I have a physical aversion to them. Like I'm not afraid of them at all but I cannot stop my body from physically recoiling from them. It's so weird. I have to drop them into the corners of my eyes and then let them spread into my eyes. All the other tricks I have tried have barely worked.
But I have found that Astepro nasal spray 2x daily combined with Zyrtec in the mornings has worked pretty well.
Oh I get that, I am not good at getting drops in my eye, the anticipation Is awful but I can usually get there. (I cannot however pour anything up my nose, nasal spray I hate but can do, neti pot? Absolutely the fuck not)
Then don't. Close your eyes, drop the liquid into the corners by your nose and then blink rapidly to spread the liquid.
Ideally wash your eye corners before, but I never had any issues without it.
Doesn't really help with the anticipation which is all mental. Thankfully if I stay hydrated I don't need drops as a general rule.
Pouring a Neti Pot up (down?) my nose sounds very unsettling--things should not go up and into my nose!
But I probably sniffle so often that I'm used to sucking (what is more or less) liquid up my nose so it might not be too weird.
I blame being a swimmer and learning to keep positive air pressure in my nose. Water just does not belong there. Nasal spray only sneaks by briefly.
I got a septum piercing and the nose baths were tragic.
Interestingly, I was a swimmer for years and have the opposite reaction. Blowing air out my nose is air I can’t breathe, so water just goes where it’s gunna go. My nose is just a place for water until it decides to leave.
I swear I don't constantly blow air out, it's just like, a positive air pressure thing. But also I haven't swam in years so it's definitely not something I can interrogate rationally.
That, in particular, sounds like what it feels like to have (slightly) scratched the surface of your eyeballs.
It’s difficult to describe because it kinda feels like there’s something stuck under the eyelid… But at the same time, even completely flooding my eyes with tears doesn’t feel like it dislodges anything, so that’s when I know it’s scratched rather than actually having something stuck there.
Minor scratches like that can heal, but still I’d recommend looking into medical advice (if doctor visits are expensive, I believe chemists and pharmacists are usually free to just ask for advice?) to try to get your allergies under control. You shouldn’t need to just put up with allergies bad enough to affect you like that, you deserve relief!
Yeah, I've been wanting to do allergy shots, but they stopped doing them locally so I have to drive 45 minutes to the nearest place, meaning that it's like a 3.5 hour total commitment every week or every other week for months.
I have problems with itchy eyes and medicine doesn't help but honestly, rubbing them just makes them itch more and makes me want to rub them more. It certianly feels good while I am rubbing them but it makes them worse afterwords.
Sounds like we occupied the same or analogous parts of the world for awhile. Every year from about April to early June I would also have maddeningly itchy eyes and the only cures were intense rubbing, cold showers, or a heavy dose of antihistamines.
Thankfully I've moved very far away from that yellow inferno of tree sex and I don't suffer anymore. I think it's a combination of a later start to spring and different tree species. I didn't even just swap one set of allergies for another, I have little to no reaction to any pollen here and I consider myself extremely lucky.
This doesn't help but I commiserate with you and hope you ultimately find relief in one fashion or another.
I found this year that using a combination of Astepro spray (2x daily) and Zyrtec worked pretty well.
For me the issue isn't even allergies, it's eyelashes and cat hairs. I constantly have eyelashes and cat hairs in my eyes, and a cold compress isn't going to remove them. I've been told that blinking is supposed to increase the tear production and wash them out, but that's never worked, and neither has rinsing them with actual water. I have to physically stick my finger in my eye to remove the physical source of my discomfort or it will never go away. I honestly don't know how else to function.
Whenever I get something stuck in my eye, which happens a lot when I'm landscaping, I grab my top eyelashes, and use them to pull/lift my eyelid away from my eyeball for a few seconds. Doing that usually causes my eye to start watering like crazy, making the debris easier to flush out when rapidly blinking afterwards. You should give that a try next time.
I've tried that! Even if I can work up a bunch of tears, it doesn't seem to move the hair. It's like my eyeballs are incredibly sticky or something. Sometimes that makes it go under one of my eyelids, which is just so much worse.
Are you 100% positive of what is stuck under your eyelid? Because it totally feels like something is stuck under my eyelids when I rub them but it's just the dryness causing sticking.
Yes, I can usually see the eyelash or cat hair if I look in a mirror. If possible I try to find it in a mirror first before I touch my eye so that I'm touching it as little as possible.
I got so fed up with eyelashes and eyebrow hairs getting into my eyes that I adopted this habit, which I highly recommend:
Every day, gentle tug all along your eyelashes and eyebrows to pull out any loose hairs. I usually get a few loose hairs per day, so getting rid of them manually can dramatically reduce the risk of one of them randomly falling into your eyes.
Oooh, I will try that!
Unfortunately no matter how much I brush my cats I can't remove all of their hair manually. :'(
That's the only way I've ever been able to remove eyelashes.
I have noticed that if I press on/close my tear ducts, my eyes will feel less dry. Tear ducts are where tears leave the eye, so it makes sense. I've never seen it discussed as helping remove anything, though. I'm more concerned about something scratching my cornea than I am about removing that thing with a clean finger.
Lol, I adore this framing.
My immune system, in its ever-vigilant and fiercely loyal attempt to protect me, is all “I WILL KILL YOU MYSELF BEFORE I LET THESE TREES DO IT.”
Meanwhile I’m just like, exhaustedly pleading with it through sniffles and tears, trying to let it know that nobody actually has to die here and that the trees are actually kind and lovely.
But my immune system doesn’t care. Can’t let its guard down — especially not with murderous flowers lurking around…
Ugh, autoimmune stuff is so frustrating, from allergies to T1 diabetes, to well everything. Like, please immune system, you have one job. You run security. It's ok to not do EXTRA SECURITY to protect me from tree jizz.
Sleep crusties. That's cause #1 for me, and I've found a quick face wash takes care of it no problem....real annoying if I have to hurry out of the house though.
I completely stopped rubbing my eyes at a young age; breaking the habit made my eyes way less itchy and the thought of doing it now seems very horrifying and gross. As someone with perpetual allergies, I now use antihistamines and routinely dab my eye with a bit of water after washing my hands. When something gets stuck in my eye, I splash it some water, blink a bunch, close my eyes then stroke from the caruncle towards the other end of the eye with the tip of my finger.
The most frequent cause of eye rubbing for me is for muscle relief when they’re fatigued in the evening hours or occasionally in the mornings after nights where my eye muscles have become hyper-relaxed during sleep and need a little prodding to get fully operational again, not unlike having to stretch after sitting through a long movie. The proposed solutions don’t really do anything for either case.
Who is rubbing their eyes directly??? 😨
I think the entire article is over-exaggerating. From what I gather, rubbing your eye signals to your cells that something is damaged causing them to release enzymes to break down the damaged area in preparation for healing. Some people produce too much of these enzymes which leads to loosening the fibers and causing keratoconus. If you aren't predisposed to overproducing the enzymes, rubbing or pressing the eyes won't do anything, there's not enough data on Keratoconus to even say if excessive rubbing alone will cause it. I would expect far more people who get itchy eyes from allergies to have it if rubbing alone caused it and you'd expect to see it among older people, not 18-39, as it can take years to get bad.
Ugh... I'm horrible about this. And I always assumed it is bad for my eyes (every time I see the eye doctor now I keep worrying they are going to find my eyes are in horrible shape due to my eye itching). I have very little willpower when it comes to do not scratch. And anti allergy medicines do almost nothing to keep my eyes from itching in my experience.
Even antihistamine eye drops?
You don't have dry eyes do you? If your tear film is missing something then it can cause itchy eyes.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/dry-eyes/symptoms-causes/syc-20371863
Yeah, I tried drops my eye doctor recommended and they don't do much at all. And I'm not sure it would be due to dry eyes as many times my eyes get watery too at the same time. But if it makes sense I know I had problems with contacts drying my eyes really easy back in college (I don't do contacts anymore. Found glasses I don't feel so dorky in and contacts pissed me off with how dry my eyes would get).
Oh, "dry eyes" doesn't necessarily mean they're dry. It can be from a lack of tears sure, but it can also be from something wrong with your tears. Your tears form 3 layers on your eye call "tear film". The layers are mucus, water and lipids. If something is wrong with any of those then your eyes can become irritated. My mother has this issue and uses special eye drops that mimic healthy tears.
I have rubbed my eyes without thinking like six times while on Tildes this evening. Bury me now.
But they I T C H ....