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What do we want out of ~life.women?
I just wanted to clarify what kind of space we want this to be. What kind of topics are acceptable/unacceptable to be put here and so on. Are men encouraged to post here too (I hope so because I am one), or do we want this to be a place primarily around giving a voice to women?
I used to be pretty active on r/twoxchromosomes several years ago. While it was great to have a community of people I could commiserate with about the struggles of modern life as a woman, it did rapidly turn into doom scrolling and had a profound impact on the way I perceived the world. I don’t really have a firm suggestion, but it would be nice if that kind of energy could be either avoided or at least not be the only type of discussion.
I couldn't agree more. When I still had an active Reddit account, I would participate in 2X frequently. But then, there was a noticeable decline that sorta of coincided with it becoming a default and the rapidly declining political situation in the US. While the posts there are a reflection of the reality that I and other women have endured and continue to endure, it sorta evolved in a perpetual trigger reminding me of the direness of being a woman in the US at this time.
While this space should certainly be a haven for discussing those difficult things, it also needs a balance that doesn't devolve into a 24/7 news cycle feed of pain. Terrible events drive always on news stations and 2X was no different due to it being on Reddit. It caused those doomscrolling topics to always be at the top because tragedy drives views and clicks.
I am hopeful that Tildes's approach to topic discussion will help balance the feed we'll see here. Perhaps we need to consider some of the more positive areas that women have an impact in. More celebrating women's accomplishments, women of the past and now who need more recognition, art created by women, women's views on other topics, women's shared experiences, and just so much more.
r/witchesvspatriarchy had a lovely vibe last that I remember that I started enjoying more than 2X. It was playful and creative, but also sharing things from a woman's perspective.
Also loved WitchesVsPatriarchy. Very inclusive, very empowering.
Agreed! I'm a man, so I never posted there, but I used to lurk on WitchesVsPatriarchy all the time. It had such wonderful energy. And the posts were varied and frequently creative!
While this is far from the only factor, I think a bunch of dudes (many of whom were... suffice it to say, not feminists) getting auto-subbed to TwoX did not help. I'm fine with men in feminist spaces but this was a recipe for sexist bullshit in the comments leading to arguments and I can't even imagine how awful that was to moderate. Even now that default subs no longer exist there are still a surprising number of sexist dudes who hate-sub to TwoX.
Ditto on loving WitchesVsPatriarchy! It felt like a really positive place compared to TwoX for sure.
I agree. I think opt-in is best for woman/LGBTQ-centric communities, especially on such a large site like reddit. What do you think about Tildes, since all groups are opt-out rather than opt-in? For now, it seems like many of the people who choose to join Tildes have been drawn here specifically because it is a respectful space for such topics.
I think Tildes has a generally better culture around such discussion, and that combined with Deimos not hesitating to ban bad actors makes all the groups being opt-out totally fine imo. Maybe that'll change later but for now it's fine I think.
I preferred WitchesVsPatriarchy myself, since it tended to lean more positive and empowering even when venting about injustice. I fully agree that we should focus on ensuring there's positive discussion just as much as support for women who need it, so that the overall mood is uplifting.
I never subscribed to it for the exact reasons you said, but every time it appeared on r/all it was posts about either DV or SA. Posts like that certainly need to exist and have a place somewhere, but I totally agree and really hope it won't be too common here
I took a spin at modding 2xc for a while, and had to demod because it was making me hate humanity. And this was YEARS ago, long before reddit got this big. I can only imagine how vile it is now.
It’s been said but I think it’s important enough to me to reiterate in a top level comment: I would like to see men post here. Cis and trans men, trans women, non-binary and gender fluid folks, and anyone else I’m forgetting or too uninformed to know about, all should be welcome here. I see this as a place not exclusively for women, but about women.
We might see articles relating to the glass ceiling, gender pay gap, inspiring women or embracing femininity. What I would prefer not to see here is things relating to women’s health - I believe that should go in ~health as we are 50% of the population!
The thing that keeps gnawing at the back of head about this is that so many topics regarding “women” do rely heavily on the things that may fall under health. The division can be very nuanced if a discussion is about the medical side of health or about the more personal side. For me it seems like women centric topics always fall along a spectrum of social to medical, but there are many many in the middle that I don’t want to see discouraged because of the often unclear guidelines about splitting health discussions away. For me right now I am not sure that I would feel comfortable posting about my journey conceiving in health, as it feels like a more emotional/personal story than a medical story. But I also would definitely start second guessing myself about posting in women if there are set rules or guidelines about not discussing things are not inclusive to all types of women.
One of the large things for me with a group like women is that while women as a whole can represent a huge population, all of the women within the group have their own experiences that may not apply to everyone else. And that should be totally ok. Conversations about/for women that relate to experiences that I personally do not have any slate or claim to should be ok as long as they are still about women. I might be just getting a bit paranoid because I am prone to it, but I think the correction towards inclusivity can sometimes discourage niche topics. Especially when they are related to things that have high emotional stakes.
This is absolutely not me arguing against inclusivity, I just think we need to be careful about the way the messaging is done. All experiences of women should be welcome here, regardless of how broadly that experience may apply to the rest.
I absolutely agree. I said in a reply to another poster that posting female health topics under ~health would be my own ideal but not one I would want to be a hard rule. I think for personal posts, people should be able to post wherever they’re most comfortable, and I would hope those posts wouldn’t get moved by the few users who are allowed to move posts to a “more appropriate” group.
As others have more eloquently said than me, if for example a trans man posts in ~health about an issue and it’s moved here, that wouldn’t be inclusive. And on the flip side someone posting here about an issue might feel uncomfortable if the topic were moved to ~health.
I’m not really concerned if this means a topic (eg menstruation) is split under two groups. I’d rather the people posting are cared for appropriately!
"Supportive of women" or "supportive of women's issues" maybe.
Inclusive, but still intentional, and positive.
I'm a woman, and I have always enjoyed female-centric communities where all genders are able to participate in fully, as long as people are respectful. Light guidelines would be helpful, such as the expectation that top level commenters should be women only on "ask women" style topics, other genders being welcome to respond to individual comments. (I would expect the same for similar groups as well.)
I want to echo some support here as far as top level comments coming from women, and any other comments from men being a-okay.
Also, I’ve always found it helpful whenever folks comment as an ‘outsider looking in’ and would say so up-front. Adds to the perspective. I’m generally against echo chambers.
Idk if these need to be rigid rules. But IMO definitely encouraged as ettiquette. :)
Edit:
The whole thing seems kind of silly when you consider anonymity on the internet, and who is even who they claim to be anyway?
The other issue is, it would limit any questions about the opposite sex people could have. Like, if a guy was seeking some kind of understanding on womens’ issues let’s say, where could he post it?
Sorry, I’m just spit-balling here. Gotta get to sleep and pull another night shift.
Yay, I’m excited for the new womens group! :)
Agreed. I think it's important to remember that men have many perspectives to share or questions to ask about the women in their lives, or their daughters. In general, people of all genders have a lot to gain from understanding one another.
That's actually exactly what I meant when I said "askwomen style posts!" I think ~life.women is the perfect place for questions like that. Men (and anyone else) could post the actual topic itself, and then asking for woman-only top level comments in those posts would prevent the age-old askreddit annoyance of questions like "Plumbers, what do you think about _____?" and people answer with "Well, I'm not anything even close to a plumber, but here's what I think..." Which is even worse when the question is directed at women specifically.
I was active in r/askwomenover30 and really enjoyed that helpful supportive community. I much prefer if men are welcome as long as they are respectful, supportive, speak from their own experience and don't try to talk over or refute women's experience.
I'm hoping that the tagging system will allow for support over difficult experiences and political topics but allow people to filter if they don't want to see that content.
The conversation and connection I would like to see in this space is that if women (all women not just cis) are speaking on their lived experience, that others listen and not invalidate their statements. The thing that got toxic about 2x (imho) was that when it was made a default subreddit, more often than not it felt like one needed to be on the defensive against others coming to the space to argue or discredit what women were saying or talking about.
I do agree that everyone should feel welcome to post here, but respect is paramount.
I would also expect in the ~life.men group that the inverse of what I have stated above to also be true. That it would be a safe space for people to speak and have others listen and learn from each other.
Nothing is more important than connecting with each other and learning from our respective lived experiences <3
To limit the risk of alienating transwomen, transmen, intersex folks, and others, I might suggest that we be cautious of placing medical topics that relate to biological sex here. For example, articles about breast cancer should maybe go in the health group instead of in life.women (and likewise for, for example, articles about testicular cancer in life.men).
I feel very strongly about this. All health topics should be in ~health, including sex-specific health. For a long time women have been taught to be embarrassed about medical things which affect us and I’d like to see that countered here on tildes. I’m not sure whether men feel the same or not. And as you say, it feels more inclusive.
Having said that, and contrary to what I’ve said above, I don’t think it should be enforced (it’s my own ideal, but Id never push it on anyone else). If someone feels more comfortable posting in the women, men or LGBT group about a medical issue they should be free to do so. I’d rather not see a third party move health topics around, and for them to stay in whichever place the poster feels is best, despite this making things a little messier in terms of categorisation.
I largely agree with you. I particularly would not want to discourage people from speaking freely about topics that come up in the comment section; I think it would severely hamper free discussion if, for example, the topic of childbirth was discouraged here. And in general, I definitely don't like the idea of comments having to stay on topic (in any group, not just this one); human conversation is organic and takes many twists and turns, and that is arguably what makes it worthwhile.
I mean to refer to the filing of top-level posts and links. There are definitely some matters that skirt the line (e.g., discussing how medical research often excludes women as subjects because they want to control for hormone-related factors, but this has unfortunate consequences for women's health), and I am fine with those going in either location. I guess this is just a gentle plea that we avoid excessively equating "woman" with "female" and "man" with "male" when it can reasonably be avoided.
Yes I think we’re in agreement here. I’d be ok with articles being moved, I just hope people’s more personal posts aren’t. Totally agree re not automatically equating sex and gender. I think the moderation and rules will need to be sensitive and nuanced, here.
I’m curious to know how this is handled in the LGBT group, does anyone who’s been around a while know?
Yes, this is where I land as well, I think.
I'm not sure there's an equivalent "this" in the lgbt group? Healthcare-related posts in an lgbt group are most likely to be transition related, which is obviously on-topic for an lgbt group. I'm not sure there's an equivalent to "What menstrual cup brand do you recommend?" type posts there.
How about breastfeeding as a topic. I could see that being in health or in life.women. as a breastfeeding mom who's weaning and it's affecting my mood, libido, exercise/muscle growth I sometimes struggle on posting/sharing the challenge of it because I don't know if it fits in the space but I've decided to add it when I feel it fits and for me it's really been making fitness hard, so I commented there with that and it went well.
Oh yeah I see plenty of topics like that with regards to a women's group, where it's not clear whether or not it should be here or in ~health, I just think it's more unambiguous whether or not something belongs in ~lgbt by comparison so there isn't likely to be a history of dealing with similar issues to learn from there.
True
What I’m really asking, is whether if someone decided to post something asking about, for example, transitioning in ~health would someone move it to ~LGBT or is it allowed to stay where the poster wanted it?
My position is that wherever people feel most comfortable putting more personal posts about health, that’s where it should stay even if it means that some posts about women’s health stay here and some are in ~health. Articles I’m more ok with being moved around, though.
In practice I'm not super sure it's come up. My instinct is that stuff more relating to personal experience is likely to be better in ~lgbt but stuff more related to the medical side of things would be better in ~health. But tbh I don't know!
Once I get top surgery I'll probably post on Tildes asking for recovery arvice, so I guess I'll find out then!
Yeah I think you’re right, I had a little look in ~LGBT and couldn’t see any health posts that had been moved. I guess I just see how really these topics are equally appropriate under either group, and I can see how in the interests of being “tidy” people might move things around. But I think keeping people as their first priority, and how they feel, is important.
This has been answered: I see some posts now in ~life.women that were previously in ~health or ~health.mental. That really rubs me the wrong way, actually. Not sure how others feel about it, though
My assumption would be that it's just for any topic that specifically relates to women, I don't think it matters whether you're a woman or not as long as there's genuine discussion about whatever.
I would envision it to be a combination of various subreddits, like /r/twoxchromosomes, /r/femalelivingspace, /r/makeupaddiction, and /r/askwomen all in one. Sort of.
makeupaddiction is probably better suited for ~life.style but otherwise I agree.
Depends on whether ~life.women is "about women," "for women," or "by women."
A lot of arguments happened on Reddit when users had different underlying expectations.
"~life.women" is so general it could mean anything, so maybe it should be all of the above.
So much this. Reading the comments it seems like there's a strong sense that it's for anything about women, whereas I came into thinking it was for and by women.
I don't think it's a bad idea to be inclusive and allow men to ask questions they way they often do in women-centric subreddits, but maybe corralling clueless questions into a weekly thread instead of top level posts might be something to consider?
IDK, I'm just remembering r/bigboobproblems and how for every guy with a legit question on how to make things better for their wife/sister/daughter, there'd be two more posting badly disguised questions designed to gather fap material. I stopped visiting that sub when it seemed like every other day some other husband or father's well meaning (maybe) post reminded me that the space had many male members, lurkers and otherwise. The lurkers I could forget about readily, but seeing the sub dominated by cishet men's posts made me feel very uncomfortable because the space stopped feeling like a space for people with boobs and more like a space about people with boobs.
Broadly speaking, a very visible male presence tends to make women like me reluctant to participate on any truly personal level. Yes, exceptions exist and this isn't always the case, but I guess in this case it's going to depend on what the group ultimately is - for or about women.
I think a megathread for "Ask Women" type questions could be useful and help avoid the group being overwhelmed by that type of question!
That said, even on reddit spaces that were dedicated to women but were inclusive of all genders did exist without feeling overwhelmed by men. It was very dependent on good moderation though.
I initially read this as "what do we want out of life, women?" :))
Some fun topics for this space might include:
I think fitness is a great topic to be had here. I've personally been working on my own fitness journey and would love to hear from other women their struggles and other nuances about working out. How our cycles affect that would be a great topic in its own right. All the dips and hills hormonally, and even just the bloat and weight fluctuation that come with it are wild and I'm interested to know how others deal with it.
Those are great topics, but I would assume fashion/style and skincare/beauty would go under ~life.style, and most fitness would go under ~health, rather than ~life.women, no? (And I'm getting slightly off-topic here, but I'd also advocate for at least the sun-protection element of skincare to be fall under ~health, though it might be more intuitive for people to put in wherever all the rest of the skincare conversations are going.)
However, I do think you and the other person who responded are correct that there are definitely female-specific fitness topics that should go under ~life.women.