Relationships take work, and pop culture taught us that finding the one meant finding a relationships that works without any kind of effort. You don't find the one, you find someone that wants to...
Exemplary
Relationships take work, and pop culture taught us that finding the one meant finding a relationships that works without any kind of effort.
You don't find the one, you find someone that wants to be your one and that you want to be the one of.
I think that's kind of what they are asking though. I don't think many of us think there is "one" person for everyone, but I'd say this is the heart of their question: "someone... you want to be...
I think that's kind of what they are asking though. I don't think many of us think there is "one" person for everyone, but I'd say this is the heart of their question: "someone... you want to be the one of". How do you know that's what you found? I think that's really obvious in hindsight, but not everyone ends up with that.
It's important to listen to your gut. You'll have lots of relationships and if your gut is telling you to move on it's probably a good idea to listen. If you imagine getting married to that person does it fill you with dread or joy. There are hints you're moving in the right direction. Do you feel seen? Do you feel understood? When you think of their intention do you jump to positive or negative conclusions. If those are all positive, awesome, sounds like someone you want to be with. Then you move into the work period. If that isn't there to begin with there is no point to work on it.
Not entirely effortless but I actually knew they were the one cause it was easier than previous relationships. I think maybe theres just some people you communicate well with naturally and others...
Not entirely effortless but I actually knew they were the one cause it was easier than previous relationships. I think maybe theres just some people you communicate well with naturally and others you dont.
Oh, I just knew. We're both pretty sceptical, down to earth people, but we were also both like "oh so this is that 'love at first sight' thing. Huh." We met on a Friday, had our first date that...
Oh, I just knew. We're both pretty sceptical, down to earth people, but we were also both like "oh so this is that 'love at first sight' thing. Huh."
We met on a Friday, had our first date that Tuesday, and decided to be exclusive that Friday after. I knew I was going to marry him then. He felt the exact same way.
Celebrated 10 years together last August, married for 5.5 😄
Sorry that I can't be more helpful, it wasn't even a big event. Just like a very knowing feeling of 'oh look there he is, that's the guy. Great, let's start planning our lives together.'
Edit: There were also 0 doubts about any major relationships milestones. Moving in together was essentially a foregone conclusion and more of a logistics discussion at the end of my studies after our first 2 years together. Getting married was never like a 'are we ready for this' sort of talk either. I feel like we moved in together after 2.5 years in April of 2019, and it seemed natural to start looking at engagement rings that summer.
Then 2020 happened and instead of planning a wedding, we (and others around us that had been together for the same length of time) went 'welp, this is terrifying. If you end up in the hospital, I am legally nothing and no one to you. Let's get married and we'll have the party after the world is back to normal'. So we got married in January 2021 at the courthouse.
Edit2eletricboogaloo: all this to say that the relationship itself is pretty much like any other relationship I think, in terms of having its ups and down, fights and such. It's not fantasy lala land, the housing market is way too crap here in the Netherlands to get through buying a house and getting a mortgage unscathed 😂 but we compromise and talk about it and we both always want to make it work and we both always think about the other's happiness.
I think the calibration that would help us understand your perspective is how typical this type of thinking is/was for you. Were huge, life-changing decisions fairly easy for you to make? Were you...
I think the calibration that would help us understand your perspective is how typical this type of thinking is/was for you. Were huge, life-changing decisions fairly easy for you to make? Were you a romantic who would expect to have this kind of reaction eventually?
Oh very much atypical - that's what I meant by sceptical, down to earth people :) I didn't believe in that sort of thing at all, really. I figured people find those who they want to marry by...
Oh very much atypical - that's what I meant by sceptical, down to earth people :)
I didn't believe in that sort of thing at all, really. I figured people find those who they want to marry by either 1) meeting someone, hitting it off (attraction), dating, getting to really know them, then it slowly grows into a real relationship; or 2) having a friend turn into a romantic partner after realising the attraction (or not feeling attraction until they were a friend, if you're demi).
I did have two more of those moments in my life I should say, which is how I recognised it when I felt it for a person. Those were when I knew what I wanted to study, and when I knew where I wanted to go to university.
It's really difficult to explain the feeling. I meant it when I said it was just like 'oh, there you are'.
Nothing else seemed to much matter either. Not that there was 12.5 years between us, not that he lived 2.5 hours away, nothing. And then it didn't end up mattering. The only agegap related issue we've ever really had is that I - in my opinion - make a really funny Dora the Explorer reference every time we plate hamburgers, but he's never seen Dora the Explorer so it's unfortunately lost on him. And the distance didn't matter, because we just spent entire weekends together and would alternate houses, until we moved in together.
Anyway, long rambling that boils down to me being someone who would've never expected that sort of romantic movie type of crap to happen actually did happen.
Happy for you, and sounds like this is one of those idealised physics question: assume frictionless plane with no air resistance and zero surface tension. Can I assume you're both pretty mentally...
Happy for you, and sounds like this is one of those idealised physics question: assume frictionless plane with no air resistance and zero surface tension.
Can I assume you're both pretty mentally healthy and grew up in decently happy homes without major educational hurdles or trauma? Or at least you've each worked it out before meeting each other. What's been your biggest struggle in the relationship so far? It really can be very easy when it is easy :)
Hah, the happily family life is definitely very off - but the working it out before we met each other isn't. We both agree that his dealing with his awful family life in therapy prior before we...
Hah, the happily family life is definitely very off - but the working it out before we met each other isn't. We both agree that his dealing with his awful family life in therapy prior before we met, and me having just started therapy at the time (my family life was ok, but I was struggling with undiagnosed ADHD and had had a very abusive relationship that ended 5 years prior) was probably a really good influence on our ability to communicate.
The fact that we were very compatible (and I mean like weirdly compatible, down to our super specific preferred play style of certain video games) was part of the whirlwind. But when I see friends around us, who have also been together for 8+ years, and the problems they deal with I feel like we just... don't have those issues.
Maybe this'll help someone, so imma just list them:
We were on the same page about marriage (I was fine to marry sooner than my peers, and I got married at 27 which indeed made me the first in my larger friend group to get married)
We were on the same page about children from the start (an adamant 'nope')
Same page about pets (many please)
We have the same preference for communication frequency (we talk all day every day over text; less from my side now I've got a big stressful job, but he still sends me a stream of consciousness and memes and I still very much appreciate those even if I can't always answer within a few hours)
We have the same wake-up / sleep rhythm (messed up to hell when we were younger, now we're both up at 07.30 usually, and this was a natural progression without friction)
We have the same physical intimacy frequency preferences (wont go into that one)
We have the same ideas about the importance of family vs. friends (take or leave the first one, the second one is much more important)
We have compatible (not the same!) preferences for how much we like work (me a lot, him less so, so we've worked out a really great schedule that boils down to him essentially being a househusband who runs every aspect of our household, which holy crap is a g.d. dream come true for my extremely-ambitious/happily-workaholic butt; also neither of us are vacation people and we both like me taking frequent long weekends over weeks in a row off)
In the same vein, we're also on the same page about money (allergic to credit cards, like saving but also splurging on something when we've discussed it together)
Every single one of my friends who have been with their partner for more than 5 years fight about, at minimum, one of the points above.
So, very very very long story short - it's a lot easier to navigate difficult things like a big move, or illness, or deaths in the family, when there's so very little you disagree on. Makes compromise a lot easier when you don't have to do it on the big stuff, you know?
100%: I think of it as relationship savings account, when the day to day is so frictionless admins energizing you save up "credits" everyday, it makes it easier to afford the rare crises every...
Makes compromise a lot easier when you don't have to do it on the big stuff, you know?
100%: I think of it as relationship savings account, when the day to day is so frictionless admins energizing you save up "credits" everyday, it makes it easier to afford the rare crises every once in a blue moon. And even then it's not about zero sum I win you lose, but two people shoulder to shoulder facing the same hurdle together
A big question to ask yourself is why you want to get married in the first place. Is it because that's what people are expected to do, or it feels like you'll be missing out on a major life step...
Exemplary
A big question to ask yourself is why you want to get married in the first place.
Is it because that's what people are expected to do, or it feels like you'll be missing out on a major life step if you don't, or you hope it will fix the ache in your soul, or you've always dreamed of your wedding day? If the answer is yes, you might not be ready to get married.
Is it because marriage has practical benefits (e.g., immigration, children, health insurance)? These are valid reasons to seek a legal partnership, but ask yourself: would you still want to spend the rest of your life with your partner even if legal marriage weren't an option, or would you prefer to cut your losses and find someone else to marry in that case? If the answer is that you'd want to stay, you might be ready to get married and to your partner, but if the answer is that you'd rather move on, you might be ready to get married but possibly not to this person.
Is it because you love your partner so deeply that you feel almost like you have to marry them? If the answer is yes, I'd take that as a good sign, but I'd caution against getting married just yet. In my opinion, you should get married only after the novelty of the relationship has worn off and you can think soberly about what exactly marriage to this person would look like — and, not to put a downer on things, but what divorce with this person might look like, too. If you can't think of any potential risks or downsides to spending your lives together, you might be too twitterpated to get married (yet).
Your partner should ask themselves the same questions, and you should make sure that you're generally aligned: both of you want to get married and specifically to each other, both of you are hoping to get the same (or at least compatible) things out of marriage, and your relationship has matured sufficiently that you can talk productively about issues you might run into (like differing ideas about housework, budgeting, raising kids, illness, in-laws, infidelity, recovering from lost passion, etc.).
Apart from all that, how much do you and your partner just plain like each other? Are you best friends? If one of you ended up in an accident and you couldn't have sex anymore or do any of your favorite romantic activities anymore, would you still love hanging out together? Would your relationship still be fun and interesting?
How's your compatibility? Does your relationship energize you or exhaust you? If something bad is going on in your life, does telling your partner make you feel better or worse? If you have to work on a project together or organize an activity together, does it leave you feeling closer or further apart? If your partner became depressed or ill or lost their income, do you like the idea of taking care of them, or does that sound awful?
If both of you can answer these questions to your mutual satisfaction and there's no glaring reason why you shouldn't get married, but you still have cold feet, think about where those cold feet could be coming from. Do you often get cold feet before making large or lifelong decisions, or are you getting uniquely bad feelings about this relationship? Are you (and/or your partner) someone who tends to jump into big decisions and then regret them later, or are you (and/or your partner) someone who routinely gets anxious before big decisions even when they're the right decision and you're ultimately happy you made them? Do any of your friends or family share your reservations, and if so, what are their concerns?
This is really great insight! OP, I'm not sure where you are in life and relationships, but you don't necessarily have to get married, and I don't think everyone's relationship style or lifestyle...
This is really great insight! OP, I'm not sure where you are in life and relationships, but you don't necessarily have to get married, and I don't think everyone's relationship style or lifestyle is necessarily suited to it.
For me, I wanted a person in my life with whom I could live with and be intimate with and make a family unit with. That doesn't require marriage, but I wanted a life partner. That also meant that I needed to find someone 1) that generally had similar interests, and that I enjoyed living and adventuring and talking with, 2) that I felt able to communicate with, and in particular able to disagree with, and 3) also wanted to be my life partner. I dated a few different people that failed critically on at least one of these points - I didn't feel able to disagree with a couple, and one just straight up did not listen to me, and one I found horrifically boring after a couple of years and I grew to actively dislike him. With all of the people I dated seriously, I felt committed to trying to make things work and only realized it wasn't working when some critically awful thing happened. I personally couldn't recognize when my love and effort weren't enough.
When I met my current husband, I had very low expectations initially. He was really cool and very easygoing, and he was also really supportive. There are times (now and also back then) where he could be really obstinate, or where it took multiple conversations to explain my feelings, but we were always able to get to a place where we understood each other, even if we didn't agree. We were both at places in our lives where we felt ready to be married, and I think that's also a really important criterion to marriage. When you feel ready to settle down and do the family thing, if you do, it's important to find a person that's also there. If I had met my spouse in my 20s, I don't think I would have been ready to settle down and likely would have polluted our relationship in some way. Timing was genuinely really important for me.
I don't think there's necessarily a way to know "the one". I've met some people I felt deeply connected with, and we are good friends, but personally I think there's a lot of other life mechanics that determine whether someone makes a good life partner/spouse. I agree with the adage that "love is not enough"; for me, both people need to be on the same page emotionally and try to be there for and support each other. It is an every day kind of thing, where you choose to be there and be supportive even when you might be tired and need a time out. I would recommend just doing the thing, live your life and see what happens.
The question isn't right. There is no person you "should" marry, unless you're an 18th century European aristocrat or other player in a multi-generational Imperial politicking situation. You'll...
The question isn't right. There is no person you "should" marry, unless you're an 18th century European aristocrat or other player in a multi-generational Imperial politicking situation.
You'll know if the person you're with is someone you want to marry because you'll feel like you want to marry them. If you don't think that then... don't marry them!
It's also important to remember that marriage is just a legal state. It doesn't really change anything about your relationship as human beings. You're still the same people the day after as you were the day before. So if you want to spend your life with a particular someone just.. do that. Maybe you'll both want to get married, maybe you won't.
Maybe you'll spend 15 years together and then find out that actually one of you quite likes the idea and the other hadn't even thought of it so you get married then (happened to me). Maybe it'll be cheaper to get married than to draw up the relevant documents to ensure everyone has legal rights over the kids or shared property should one partner die (several friends of mine). Maybe you'll get married, spend 25 happy years together then get amicably divorced at 60 because your lives are going in different directions (another friend last month).
I agree overall with all the comments that there is no one. I think there are multiple ones, and that you're really trying to find someone that clicks well with you. That's not to say that it's a...
I agree overall with all the comments that there is no one. I think there are multiple ones, and that you're really trying to find someone that clicks well with you. That's not to say that it's a perfect match, relationships are still a lot of work. But when the times get tough, they will work together with you as a team. It'll be the both of you figuring the tough times out together, even when it feels like the tough times are trying to pit you against each other.
That being said, here were some early signs that my current partner is a one. Almost all of this happened in the first couple of years of the relationship.
Several people already thought we were married/engaged, and I didn't bother to correct them. It wasn't that I wanted to be married at this time, it's that I was happy enough being with him I didn't think it really mattered what state people thought our relationship was in. In previous relationships, I would have corrected the person speaking.
I really hate dancing. I have a difficult time telling where my body is in space, and multiple people have told me in public that I am bad at it and should probably stop. That being said, I still enjoy it when I'm able to let go and let the music take me. The first date me and my partner took to a club, I danced with him without a second thought. I just felt really comfortable around him, and that the way I dance wouldn't change the way he saw me. Not only that, I really wanted to dance with him.
We just so happened to move in together right as covid was starting. I don't think we would have done it then if we knew a pandemic was going to happen, would have seemed like a good chance things will go wrong when you're stuck together 24/7 and it's a relatively young relationship (1.5 years old). But, it was fine. There was of course some uncomfortable moments, and we did have periodic arguments, but it was just really natural to adjust to each other.
So, it kinda feels cliche, but I think it's really when you know it's working, you know. You feel comfortable being yourself, and you want your partner to be themselves too. Me and my partner also have done couples counseling, cause at one point our relationship was having a breakdown in communication. I'll remember that the therapist also said a good sign a couple will make it, is if they respect each other, even when they're angry at each other. So, I presume that is also a good sign of finding a one.
All of this of course presumes that the relationship is not abusive (which is also a sign that respect is missing from the abusive partner). In which case, you may feel some of the things I listed above, but it is being used against you by your abuser. If you feel like you're walking on egg shells around them, even if you feel the above, that is a bad sign. Just thought I would throw this out for anyone who needs it.
You are your only "the one". Even in the best case scenario, where you find someone with whom it just clicks and everything feels natural, that's no guarantee that it will stay that way. People...
You are your only "the one".
Even in the best case scenario, where you find someone with whom it just clicks and everything feels natural, that's no guarantee that it will stay that way. People change, you'll change, and something that was once beautiful and sweet can turn into poison for both of you. Someone can go from saying they want to grow old together to leaving you alone and penniless within a shockingly short span.
This doesn't mean it's not worth it to look for someone you love and love to be with. But there is no perfect pair for you out there with whom everything is going to magically work. If there were, I'd still be married to mine. Relationships are hard work and it's impossible to guarantee they won't eventually break. Plenty of things like that are worth doing regardless, but don't make them the foundation for your entire life and personality. You need to invest in and protect yourself first and foremost.
Ooh chills, I'm stealing this one and keeping it forever. Along with @DefinitelyNotAFae's "people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks whose rounding you're willing to do".
You are your only "the one".
Ooh chills, I'm stealing this one and keeping it forever. Along with @DefinitelyNotAFae's "people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks whose rounding you're willing to do".
My wife and I have been married 14 years, together for going on 20. "The One" doesn't exist. I picked my wife (and she picked me), because I found her interesting. I wasn't really sure I wanted to...
My wife and I have been married 14 years, together for going on 20.
"The One" doesn't exist.
I picked my wife (and she picked me), because I found her interesting. I wasn't really sure I wanted to date her in the first place; I thought she was cute, but not the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen. But, she had these things about her that I really enjoyed;, she was (is) sarcastic and could rip me to shreds, which is a personality trait I enjoy in people (and myself). She had a dark sense of humor and would laugh at my dark jokes.
She had some traits I really wasn't into; she's extroverted (that's grown on me over the years) and likes to go out, travel, etc, compared to my introversion and homebodied nature. She loved to go to parties and would constantly drag me to them, much to my chagrin.
But I stuck it out, because I hadn't met many women with that sense of humor that connected with mine. I figured, "Well, let's try this out. I really like that about her, even if there's other stuff I don't care for." And yeah, we are and were compatible, but it's also work. It was always work and still is work. I'm thankful she's willing to compromise and do some self-examination, just as I am, so we're both amenable to changing our behavior and looking at things from each others perspective; I believe this is what has kept our relationship strong. We fight, absolutely. But we calm down, we apologize, we talk about it and say sorry when we understand we're wrong or we explain to each other why we might have been angry and our reasoning behind it and we listen.
I think I could be happy with another person and I think there's plenty of other people out there who I could build a good relationship with. There's no, "The One", it's just finding someone who has some traits you rank highly (such as that sense of humor for my wife) and then building out from there. But we've been able to build this relationship through mutual trust and understanding and it's been a strong foundation for the both of us. I'm kind of getting mealy mouthed here, I guess, but what I'm trying to say is:
I feel like it's important to note that there's not any particular reason to think that everyone has a singular person that they are going to be happy in a single monogamous relationship with for...
I feel like it's important to note that there's not any particular reason to think that everyone has a singular person that they are going to be happy in a single monogamous relationship with for the rest of their life. Some people seem to find this, some people don't. Sometimes people that appear to have found this actually spend their lives hiding their misery from everyone outside their marriage. Some people seem to be genuinely happy (on net) for their whole lives with their spouse/life partner. Some people have multiple life partners. Some have little (or big) polycule families. Some don't have any life partners at all, but have shorter relationships with many people, either in sequence or simultaneously.
I've been married to my wife for almost 4 years. We've been a monogamous couple for almost 13 (!!). Before that, I had dated a lot of people, which I think was a good thing. I had had some relationships that lasted a week, some that lasted several months, some that lasted years. I learned a lot about what I was like in different relationships and what I liked in my relationship partners. I learned how to be a good partner myself.
With my wife, everything built slowly. At each point that we decided to move forward in our relationship, we both found that we felt like it was past time to take that step, so we did. After two years of dating, an opportunity arose to move into the same apartment building (different apartments), and we both thought "well, we're already spending nearly every night together, this'll make that easier for sure". Then it was time to move across the country for work, and we both thought "well, I really don't want to be on the other side of the country from you". And then it was time to get a dog, and move again, and get another dog, and move again, and at some point we both started thinking "we seem pretty committed to this relationship, do we want to get married? Why?"
For us, getting married wasn't itself a life change. Unlike moving in together, or adopting a dog (or a second dog), or moving across the country together, we didn't think anything would change after we got married (we were right). Rather, marriage was a way for us to tell our families and friends "this person is maximally important to me — I'm starting a family with them, and they're going to be here for a while. You should get to know each other." The framing for our wedding was: let's get all our favorite people in one place so that my favorite people and my wife's favorite people can spend time together and become one big group of our favorite people.
Now we have our first kid, and we're eyeing a seconsd, and I feel endlessly lucky to have found my wife exactly when I did, when both of us were single and compatible and ready to try something new and meaningful. Our favorite thing about our relationship is how well we solve problems, for ourselves and each other and our family. We are able to talk through what we're feeling without feeling judged or ashamed (mostly). We're able to work together to find solutions for the problems we're facing, or just comfort each other when there are no solutions. We're a good team. And we love each other with a deep, knowing love. We really understand and care about each other. We want to meet each other's needs.
But all of that came with time (a lot of time!). We're completely different people now than when we first met. We grew together, rather than apart, and we keep growing together, it seems.
There are things we look for when dating or meeting someone interesting - values and goals that align well enough, sexual and emotional compatibility, absence of red flags, having a fun time...
There are things we look for when dating or meeting someone interesting - values and goals that align well enough, sexual and emotional compatibility, absence of red flags, having a fun time together etc. Once I've met someone that feels right, I tend to hold my horses until I've had at least a couple major disagreements with them and gotten to see and experience their negative personality traits (which every human has), and they mine. That's when I know.
Most people can get along fine when it's just a normal, fun day without extra challenge. But in life, we occasionally face challenging situations and get into arguments. The way you and your partner go through those is extremely important. If the way you resolve conflicts repeatedly leaves one or both of you feeling hurt or unheard, your happiness is going to be eroded over time. If conflict resolution works well, with both people expressing themselves openly and feeling heard, and if your partner's worst traits are tolerable for you (and vice versa), that relationship is built to last.
My answer might differ from others, but after 2 failed relationships in 2 years, those two being the only girls I had in 30 years, loving being single... it was tough to find "the one". So I...
My answer might differ from others, but after 2 failed relationships in 2 years, those two being the only girls I had in 30 years, loving being single... it was tough to find "the one". So I listened to the others who said you will never find someone if you set such high expectations. So I took the time to find out what I reaaaally wanted in a girlfriend.
I figured that if I loved gaming/playing, with people and alone, then I wanted someone who could give me that. I wanted someone that was able to communicate well, someone that let me be who I am and is willing to work with me.
My girlfriend is not the prettiest, she has her issues, she has her mood swings. But she has what I really wanted. And for that I will love her to death. She has tons of qualities that I "discovered" through the relationship and it's still so fun to be with her.
It is work though. If you are unwilling to compromise, to take blame or to self-reflect, you're doomed. You will never be happy. There are some things that to you are evident, some things you're like "you must do it this way". But the reality of life is that we all see life from our point of view. But our point of view is not the "truth".
Find the one you're willing to work for. Not the one that "fits all criteria". Because you'll really find that unless you spend a TON of time with someone, you never truly know them. You think they fit the criteria, but you'll have many surprises...
As someone who has never been in a relationship, this question is regularly on my mind as well. I'm aware that this is likely due to me fearing rejection, and that I should just throw myself out...
As someone who has never been in a relationship, this question is regularly on my mind as well. I'm aware that this is likely due to me fearing rejection, and that I should just throw myself out there and see where things goes. But the other part is when imagining what a hypothetical relationship would look like, it just feels like a lot of work, and the reward doesn't seem worth it. Like, I'm barely able to manage time for myself, now I need to find time for a whole other person?
To build onto your question, I guess "the one" in my case would be someone who'd make me feel like I want to find time for. But after so long not having come across such a person, does it mean I should keep looking and wait till this unknown feeling make itself known one day, or maybe it's time to revise my expectation and follow some other more "objective" guideline?
It's probably lucky for me that I've only found out about "incel culture" as a concept pretty late otherwise I could have been swept into it for sure.
I had similar feelings first couple years out of college. Never been in a relationship, I was trying to get myself together in terms of living on my own, in a new apartment, in a new job. I didn't...
I had similar feelings first couple years out of college. Never been in a relationship, I was trying to get myself together in terms of living on my own, in a new apartment, in a new job. I didn't have the effort or interest in pursuing romantic relationships. Focused on being independent and on my career, making friends. And that's okay. I thought about relationships in terms of thought experiments but never acted on them. At some point I felt like I adjusted to my new lifestyle and routine, and the next step was to find a life long partner, so next I had to consider romantic relationships. I mentally became more open to the idea, and when I had an opportunity to date someone I was interested in I took it, over time decided to commit to our relationship and now we are getting married :)
I think everyone has their own time line of when they will be ready. Or maybe marriage isn't necessarily your goal and that's okay too.
How is your friendship life, do you have a variety of types of friends of different gender? I don't know about you at all so this isn't a snap judgement just a curiosity: there are some people I...
How is your friendship life, do you have a variety of types of friends of different gender? I don't know about you at all so this isn't a snap judgement just a curiosity: there are some people I know who find it hard to get into a romantic relationship because they don't meet a lot of people they invest time into getting to know on a deeper level. Some people only discover folks they want to spend time for only after they've got lots of practice making themselves spend time on "okay" people: that people grow on them after a while from "meh" to "after what we talked about / experienced together today I'm in love with them".
That sounds like me haha, my social circle are colleagues and a couple of friends from uni who are still nearby so not much variety. We mostly just talk about work or catching up, our hobbies...
That sounds like me haha, my social circle are colleagues and a couple of friends from uni who are still nearby so not much variety. We mostly just talk about work or catching up, our hobbies don't match so conversations usually don't grow well there. There were few occasions that I run into someone with the same interest, but even then I still struggle to keep the conversation going, so maybe I just don't know how to talk (and/or listen), at least not in a way that could deepen a relationship I guess.
I found that I am continuing to be a better and better partner by becoming their closer friend, even after 20 years of marriage. There's a lot of skill overlaps here, that I think folks waiting...
I found that I am continuing to be a better and better partner by becoming their closer friend, even after 20 years of marriage. There's a lot of skill overlaps here, that I think folks waiting for a romantic partner should really be working on the whole time. In no particular order and not limited to:
overcoming "it's easier if I just stay home / do this alone / do it my way" : the person is sharing your life
putting in effort even when you kinda don't feel like it
regular check in
self restraint when you have something to say or a sudden intrusive joke or whatever: read their mood a bit and see if there is a need or if what you wanted to share is hurtful / ill timed unintentionally
not blowing them off if you made a prior commitment and then something fun came along or you'd rather not
be quick to apologize if it's your fault - do not excuse your way out just apologize for the no excuse portion. And likewise when they upset you, be slow to anger, listen first, and try to be curious about why they did something like that that hurt you . Rom Coms would be a completely dead genre if characters would just listen first.
practice thinking about them when you do small things like make your own travel plans or getting a new game
get their advice if this is their wheelhouse, doesn't mean you have to take all of it but just involving them in something you're doing
@thearctic -- there's no such thing as the one, but there are signs of one of the ones you could spend the rest of your life with. a good partner is someone who see you doing the above, show appreciation for you, and returns your energy in match. And someone who isn't, is someone that sees you doing this and leans in further to squeeze more out of you : a bad partner may do the above especially as part of the initial charm phase or during the Hoover phase of an abusive cycle, but their default setting is gleefully squeezing a bit more and a bit more, making your world feel smaller when you spend time with them, and when you come home from a date you feel worn down and lonely rather than energized and cared for.
I didn't. I'm not monogamous. I've found "a" one, but a don't really believe in "the" one. I forget whose framing this was but I believe in people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks...
I didn't. I'm not monogamous. I've found "a" one, but a don't really believe in "the" one.
I forget whose framing this was but I believe in people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks whose rounding you're willing to do.
Trying to find a perfect 1 or to round up from too low of a number will leave you miserable in either direction.
And all relationships end, until one (or more) doesn't.*
*Arguably with death all do but that's not really what people mean in these questions.
Ooohhhh I really love this. Never heard it framed this way before, but in my (very autistic) circle of friends we've had conversations about exactly this, just not said as succinctly. Hopefully it...
people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks whose rounding you're willing to do.
Ooohhhh I really love this. Never heard it framed this way before, but in my (very autistic) circle of friends we've had conversations about exactly this, just not said as succinctly. Hopefully it will stick in my brain long enough to share the next time the topic comes up!
I wish I remember who I got it from! But it's always made more sense for me than expecting a "perfect" 1, you know? In one of my fantasy series (Owlsight, Valdemar, by Mercedes Lackey) there was a...
I wish I remember who I got it from! But it's always made more sense for me than expecting a "perfect" 1, you know?
In one of my fantasy series (Owlsight, Valdemar, by Mercedes Lackey) there was a wedding ceremony whose direct quote I cannot find and it's got similar vibes to me as it speaks to how you're not two people becoming one, you're always two people, but you're two people choosing to walk down the path together.
Which implies you may choose otherwise in the future. And I think the acceptance of endings is something we struggle with as a society, so this feels particularly meaningful to me.
Not sure if it's his original thought, but I have heard Dan Savage say it many times (and a variation on "all relationships end" or "a relationship that ends isn't necessarily a failed one, it's...
Not sure if it's his original thought, but I have heard Dan Savage say it many times (and a variation on "all relationships end" or "a relationship that ends isn't necessarily a failed one, it's just a relationship").
Dan Savage is a very likely source for the "all relationships end until one doesn't". I read him in the weekly STL paper in college and as a young polyamorous person he was one of the few public...
Dan Savage is a very likely source for the "all relationships end until one doesn't". I read him in the weekly STL paper in college and as a young polyamorous person he was one of the few public sources of affirmation.
He may be the source of the "round up to one" too.
After 15 years with my highschool sweetheart, beginning and finishing our respective university curriculum (semi long distance), moving together and getting stable jobs, marriage seems like the...
After 15 years with my highschool sweetheart, beginning and finishing our respective university curriculum (semi long distance), moving together and getting stable jobs, marriage seems like the natural next step.
Moving together to see if we could really live together was the perceived hardest challenge (turns out it wasn't hard).
For me really just a case of never questioning otherwise. Not being together is about as alien as asking whether I should keep my right arm, so any doubt has never been present. We have been...
For me really just a case of never questioning otherwise. Not being together is about as alien as asking whether I should keep my right arm, so any doubt has never been present. We have been together since we were 15 and just matured and grown together, having the same priorities in life and it never feels wrong for any of us.
Growing up and growing old together is such a blessing when it happens, glad for you guys! (Also folks who get together early get to celebrate all kinds of big milestones well ahead of our peers...
Growing up and growing old together is such a blessing when it happens, glad for you guys! (Also folks who get together early get to celebrate all kinds of big milestones well ahead of our peers as well)
It's messy, its complicated, and maybe a bit spiritual? At the very core, long-term romantic relationships are simultaneously: 2 (usually) people enjoying the flirtation and fancy of a romantic...
It's messy, its complicated, and maybe a bit spiritual?
At the very core, long-term romantic relationships are simultaneously:
2 (usually) people enjoying the flirtation and fancy of a romantic arrangement. i.e. the couple-specific uniqueness and shared experience of the arrangement.
A political arrangement structured around long term life commitments, specifically existing as a series of resource sharing arrangements.
'The One' is simply one idea of how this done. Having a singular romantic partner that one establishes as their legal equal is a facet of our culture, not a universal human innateness. Other romantic partnership structures have emerged over the course of human history. In fact, the current "Mainstream" version of a romantic legal partnership is something that emerged from specific Victorian ideals, which were later reinterpreted as "family values" during the middle of the 20th century, as part of a cultural push for the "nuclear family." As my girlfriend might aptly put it, "Most people in our culture are really mono-brained."
I assume that monogamy and the idea of 'One True Person' or even 'One True Partnership that gets Formed" must work for someone, but in my experience, most people actually don't like to think that way, and instead force that idea into themselves to feel secure. Most people have multiple relationships in life, and most of those relationships don't work out.
Additionally, I feel our culture has a massive blind spot around what courtship is, and lacks the proper vocabulary to discuss it. This gets wrapped up in in the present gender dynamics and discourse, and whatever new-wave or retro-wave trends are present.
For example: In my relationship with my wife, we found almost immediately there was an economic differences in our family backgrounds. Over the course of our relationship, my privilege and familial resources were used for the procurement of several big-ticket items that she expressly owns. (Her car, and the house we jointly own) Romantically, that can be interpreted as dowry payments for her hand in marriage. However, these items are also expressly used as an aspect of our partnership. Logically? my wife is more effective with a fully functioning vehicle that she enjoys using, and the honourable thing for me to do as a partner, is for me to ensure that she has adequate ownership of our shared domicile.
And these are things we discuss! Our relationship has been a conversation, a series of ongoing negotiations for the two of us to work on our long term goals. We both work to provide for each other's unique personal wants and needs. Ultimately, our personal respect for each other and our choices is what has allowed us to love each other long term. Polyamory was something that was discussed when we got back together after our 8th break-up. Getting a house was something we discussed as a long term goal, was agreed to over other goals, and then was something we both worked on achieving.
Meanwhile, my girlfriend is someone I had known for years, had discussed opinions about polyamory with, and was someone who knew and understood who I was. Beginning a relationship with her was something that was discussed with my wife, and with her. Rules and boundaries were established, with long term understandings of our life plans. She and my wife are good friends, and frequently work together on household projects.
Finally, Love is as much terror as it is enjoyment. In my opinion, you cannot love anyone until you've fully admitted to yourself that you would be upset if they were gone from your life. Love has that cost.
I mention all of these various sub-points, because that is the nuance and nitty-gritty required for a long term romantic partnership. While I Love both my wife and my girlfriend, our long term relationship is ultimately sustainable by secured by a complex series of agreements and understandings that as built from the ground up.
With all that in mind, I'll answer your question.
With my Wife, I knew quickly. Part of it is hard for me to rationalize since its all hindsight this many years later.
There was this moment when we first locked eyes, on a staircase. She wondering how she had managed to bump into the exact person she was planning to dodge going on a date with, and me thinking that it was funny that I'd bumped into the very cute girl I was about to go on a date with, and that she looked very cute when she was bewildered.
There was the time my (then) best friend had a mental health crisis, and the subsequent fallout ended the friendship. This was right after a particularly bad breakup with her, and without knowing who else to talk to, I called her.
I recall us cuddling in my dorm room, and me telling her my philosophy about relationships. That every stage of our relationship was about both of us taking a chance - and that I would keep taking chances until I ran out of chances. (part of this is a quote from Rogue One) Anyways, I asked her to marry me shortly after the first time we broke up and got back together. I'd only known her about two months at that point.
Maybe I realized she was the one during a late night chat, wandering the hallways of our terrible little college, or on an off night from when we were both working overnights.
Or perhaps it was after I bailed her out of a situation for the third time in 3 years, effortlessly resolving an issue of immense stress and hardship for her, with me realizing that I would bail this woman out of anything, and I should probably come to terms with that.
I guess it could have been the valentines day that I finally came out of the closet, and she unambiguously supported me, and helped me process and try on clothes.
In total, she dumped me 8 times, (I dumped her twice), Cops were called at least twice, I changed genders, she realized how gay she was, and we were negotiating at every stage of the process. We've lived in 3 different cities. Our relationship ultimately worked out because She is gay, I am a woman, and we both are very morally flexible people who come from weird backgrounds. Oh, and fate liked to intervene.
Without saying more, discussions of power, honour, and betrayal have always been present in our talks. Ultimately, as she does make the majority of the food, she could easily poison me. I trust her to only do that if its necessary.
I've asked her how she knew. She's said that it was a series of evaluations she made over time, with her deciding that her feelings were supported by the logical best series of outcomes.
The first time I asked her to marry me, I asked two of my family friends about it. They told me they both had known quickly with their partners. I didn't ask my parents. To add the one point of relevant advice that doesn't fit anywhere else, my father would always say "never marry a woman who hasn't thrown a plate at you."
I call her my soulmate, but that didn't just happen. It was luck, hard work, emotional moments, and blood, sweat and tears, and us understanding who we both were. Polyamory, and the ability to have multiple partners, is a part of that. We're at a decade.
With my girlfriend, it was when in a protracted argument over Axis and Allies, a (now former) friend of ours rolled her eyes, and said "would you just kiss already." From there, it developed organically, and with the express consent of my wife.
I think for her, it was when I realized I found myself smiling anytime I thought about her. The relationship is recent, but I find that time moves quickly these days.
So, to finally and FULLY answer your question, "When do you know that you've found "the person you marry'?" It's F---ing complicated. It's a question humanity has always asked, always fretted over, and poets and musicians will eternally attempt to capture.
To Me? It was personal. It was having hope, it was negotiating, and it was giving in to fate, and it was doing the irrational thing because I loved someone. It was knowing when to surrender, and knowing when to pursue. It was knowing when to yield, when to admit I was wrong, and when to forgive. And until I had all that hindsight later, it was letting my heart and head come to a union, and acting then insisting, in face of any evidence, that my relationship was going to work out that way.
Oh, and when you know you want to marry someone? Make sure you sign a pre-nup.
I'm gonna have to be a bit cynical and say that you will know it in about 3 years into the relationship if you're paying attention. I'm in a great relationship for 8+ years and the first 1-2 years...
I'm gonna have to be a bit cynical and say that you will know it in about 3 years into the relationship if you're paying attention. I'm in a great relationship for 8+ years and the first 1-2 years it felt almost the same as my earlier poor relationships.
Then again, there's experience. I don't think I'd make those mistakes again.
I wish I knew. I thought I felt it twice, and both relationships ended up failing. After those experiences I've given up looking for a life partner. I guess you just throw your hat in and hope for...
I wish I knew. I thought I felt it twice, and both relationships ended up failing. After those experiences I've given up looking for a life partner.
I guess you just throw your hat in and hope for the best. On a long enough relationship timeline, you either grow together or you grow apart.
So, I agree with everyone: my belief system doesn't allow me to have concepts like "the one" or "destined marriage." I believe we must, statistically, have lots of "the ones" every day based on...
So, I agree with everyone: my belief system doesn't allow me to have concepts like "the one" or "destined marriage." I believe we must, statistically, have lots of "the ones" every day based on who we are at that nexus in time. I think with one guy, I imagined a monogamish setup where he'd travel and bang and I'd have a delightful amount of time to myself and my hobbies. With another, I imagined a Tim Burton / Helena Bonham Carter setup, where we would live apart yet right next door. With another, whose relationship ended over having or not having kids, I toyed with the idea of being pregnant and the awkward hilarity of our parents meeting given the age difference... the possibilities were endless. However, dating was... it took a lot of time and disappointment. So by the time you get there, despite every single permutation of choice, mistake, and the slightest difference of feeling-- literally every other possible outcome... as you realize you and the person in front of you love each other anyway, it definitely will feel, to some degree, it couldn't have happened with anyone else. Your "one."
Now to actually answer the question. He and I came in as 2 really independent people who didn't necessarily see marriage as being in the cards or a need. I can say we're now really sweet together, we do talk about marriage, and I feel a new and positive dimension that I discovered being with someone kind who made me feel safe. These are the moments I think about in hindsight. Hard to say how often these things happened and I just retconned it after the guy didn't work out, but nevertheless:
Scared for good reasons: He seemed sweeter and more thoughtful than the usual guys, which actually made me nervous he wouldn't like me. I wouldn't describe my previous dates as "not nice," but I think there was almost a computational nature to our interactions where we were 2 busy people meeting where one probably really wanted to have sex and everything was in service to that. I wouldn't say I'm particularly "sweet," so I felt worried he wouldn't like that about me. However, I also knew it was stupid to preemptively nope out because I thought a sweet person wouldn't like me. That is how you date assholes forever. (As it turned out, the right person can be a good example of kindness to you, as he is for me.)
Weird emotional clarity: I noticed without him very obviously touting this that he was extremely observant and thus considerate of his family and doing free manual labor for them. I was a bit nervous as I had guessed he was unemployed (though in a great job market). I think some people describe this as "God" speaking to them, but I think of it like the show Travelers, where my future consciousness intercepted my present and said "if he's that good to his family, if you love each other, he will be that good to you. Also, if he's doing hard labor for free when he's unemployed from a desk job, he will never not work hard if it matters to you / his family." 4 years and one sick parent later, I think this was shockingly astute.
No logical reason to seek out other options: At times I considered staying in the dating market (as one does in a big city, as it's basically emotional gambling). I thought to myself "what would I do there?"
First, this was extremely improbable, as I'd had plenty of handsome and accomplished dates. This guy had a mix of attributes I considered rare. Waste of time.
Secondly, even if it happened, dating 2 guys sounds torturous if I end up really liking both. I know 'other people' exist out there but I don't care because I don't believe in 'the one', I only need "a one." Waste of time.
Thirdly, even if the other guy was 'better,' the attributes that could be better were not enough for me to risk missing a good match.
Lastly, if I had someone I considered so promising in front of me, it would be stupid to risk distancing this person just because I had a knee-jerk reaction to keep my options open. If Fate existed, it'd be saying "put up or shut up Sunshine, you asked for someone, here's your moment. Seize it." So, I proactively said I wasn't going to explore my options, and we DTRd shortly after.
You like to disagree: Our relationship was pretty good, then rocky (he said he felt scarred from a past relationship), and extremely good. During the rocky portion, what kept us together was the points above + it was easy to be together + we had extremely civil disagreements.
You have a plan for if your marriage gets weak: As we talked, we just saw eye to eye on a lot of practical things, and I think being practical is probably a love language for us. We don't like to get mired in competition or unreasonable demands. One thing we discussed is "what if you fall out of love with someone?" We both considered that to be normal, because people are always changing, so you must choose to fall back in love and stay on course together. You are still each others companions in life. Neither of us were strongly "we have to get married if we're together forever" at that point, but I think this conversation was extremely influential in us both feeling like it could be an option for us.
Relationships take work, and pop culture taught us that finding the one meant finding a relationships that works without any kind of effort.
You don't find the one, you find someone that wants to be your one and that you want to be the one of.
I think that's kind of what they are asking though. I don't think many of us think there is "one" person for everyone, but I'd say this is the heart of their question: "someone... you want to be the one of". How do you know that's what you found? I think that's really obvious in hindsight, but not everyone ends up with that.
It's important to listen to your gut. You'll have lots of relationships and if your gut is telling you to move on it's probably a good idea to listen. If you imagine getting married to that person does it fill you with dread or joy. There are hints you're moving in the right direction. Do you feel seen? Do you feel understood? When you think of their intention do you jump to positive or negative conclusions. If those are all positive, awesome, sounds like someone you want to be with. Then you move into the work period. If that isn't there to begin with there is no point to work on it.
Not entirely effortless but I actually knew they were the one cause it was easier than previous relationships. I think maybe theres just some people you communicate well with naturally and others you dont.
Oh, I just knew. We're both pretty sceptical, down to earth people, but we were also both like "oh so this is that 'love at first sight' thing. Huh."
We met on a Friday, had our first date that Tuesday, and decided to be exclusive that Friday after. I knew I was going to marry him then. He felt the exact same way.
Celebrated 10 years together last August, married for 5.5 😄
Sorry that I can't be more helpful, it wasn't even a big event. Just like a very knowing feeling of 'oh look there he is, that's the guy. Great, let's start planning our lives together.'
Edit: There were also 0 doubts about any major relationships milestones. Moving in together was essentially a foregone conclusion and more of a logistics discussion at the end of my studies after our first 2 years together. Getting married was never like a 'are we ready for this' sort of talk either. I feel like we moved in together after 2.5 years in April of 2019, and it seemed natural to start looking at engagement rings that summer.
Then 2020 happened and instead of planning a wedding, we (and others around us that had been together for the same length of time) went 'welp, this is terrifying. If you end up in the hospital, I am legally nothing and no one to you. Let's get married and we'll have the party after the world is back to normal'. So we got married in January 2021 at the courthouse.
Edit2eletricboogaloo: all this to say that the relationship itself is pretty much like any other relationship I think, in terms of having its ups and down, fights and such. It's not fantasy lala land, the housing market is way too crap here in the Netherlands to get through buying a house and getting a mortgage unscathed 😂 but we compromise and talk about it and we both always want to make it work and we both always think about the other's happiness.
I think the calibration that would help us understand your perspective is how typical this type of thinking is/was for you. Were huge, life-changing decisions fairly easy for you to make? Were you a romantic who would expect to have this kind of reaction eventually?
Oh very much atypical - that's what I meant by sceptical, down to earth people :)
I didn't believe in that sort of thing at all, really. I figured people find those who they want to marry by either 1) meeting someone, hitting it off (attraction), dating, getting to really know them, then it slowly grows into a real relationship; or 2) having a friend turn into a romantic partner after realising the attraction (or not feeling attraction until they were a friend, if you're demi).
I did have two more of those moments in my life I should say, which is how I recognised it when I felt it for a person. Those were when I knew what I wanted to study, and when I knew where I wanted to go to university.
It's really difficult to explain the feeling. I meant it when I said it was just like 'oh, there you are'.
Nothing else seemed to much matter either. Not that there was 12.5 years between us, not that he lived 2.5 hours away, nothing. And then it didn't end up mattering. The only agegap related issue we've ever really had is that I - in my opinion - make a really funny Dora the Explorer reference every time we plate hamburgers, but he's never seen Dora the Explorer so it's unfortunately lost on him. And the distance didn't matter, because we just spent entire weekends together and would alternate houses, until we moved in together.
Anyway, long rambling that boils down to me being someone who would've never expected that sort of romantic movie type of crap to happen actually did happen.
Happy for you, and sounds like this is one of those idealised physics question: assume frictionless plane with no air resistance and zero surface tension.
Can I assume you're both pretty mentally healthy and grew up in decently happy homes without major educational hurdles or trauma? Or at least you've each worked it out before meeting each other. What's been your biggest struggle in the relationship so far? It really can be very easy when it is easy :)
Hah, the happily family life is definitely very off - but the working it out before we met each other isn't. We both agree that his dealing with his awful family life in therapy prior before we met, and me having just started therapy at the time (my family life was ok, but I was struggling with undiagnosed ADHD and had had a very abusive relationship that ended 5 years prior) was probably a really good influence on our ability to communicate.
The fact that we were very compatible (and I mean like weirdly compatible, down to our super specific preferred play style of certain video games) was part of the whirlwind. But when I see friends around us, who have also been together for 8+ years, and the problems they deal with I feel like we just... don't have those issues.
Maybe this'll help someone, so imma just list them:
We were on the same page about marriage (I was fine to marry sooner than my peers, and I got married at 27 which indeed made me the first in my larger friend group to get married)
We were on the same page about children from the start (an adamant 'nope')
Same page about pets (many please)
We have the same preference for communication frequency (we talk all day every day over text; less from my side now I've got a big stressful job, but he still sends me a stream of consciousness and memes and I still very much appreciate those even if I can't always answer within a few hours)
We have the same wake-up / sleep rhythm (messed up to hell when we were younger, now we're both up at 07.30 usually, and this was a natural progression without friction)
We have the same physical intimacy frequency preferences (wont go into that one)
We have the same ideas about the importance of family vs. friends (take or leave the first one, the second one is much more important)
We have compatible (not the same!) preferences for how much we like work (me a lot, him less so, so we've worked out a really great schedule that boils down to him essentially being a househusband who runs every aspect of our household, which holy crap is a g.d. dream come true for my extremely-ambitious/happily-workaholic butt; also neither of us are vacation people and we both like me taking frequent long weekends over weeks in a row off)
In the same vein, we're also on the same page about money (allergic to credit cards, like saving but also splurging on something when we've discussed it together)
Every single one of my friends who have been with their partner for more than 5 years fight about, at minimum, one of the points above.
So, very very very long story short - it's a lot easier to navigate difficult things like a big move, or illness, or deaths in the family, when there's so very little you disagree on. Makes compromise a lot easier when you don't have to do it on the big stuff, you know?
100%: I think of it as relationship savings account, when the day to day is so frictionless admins energizing you save up "credits" everyday, it makes it easier to afford the rare crises every once in a blue moon. And even then it's not about zero sum I win you lose, but two people shoulder to shoulder facing the same hurdle together
A big question to ask yourself is why you want to get married in the first place.
Is it because that's what people are expected to do, or it feels like you'll be missing out on a major life step if you don't, or you hope it will fix the ache in your soul, or you've always dreamed of your wedding day? If the answer is yes, you might not be ready to get married.
Is it because marriage has practical benefits (e.g., immigration, children, health insurance)? These are valid reasons to seek a legal partnership, but ask yourself: would you still want to spend the rest of your life with your partner even if legal marriage weren't an option, or would you prefer to cut your losses and find someone else to marry in that case? If the answer is that you'd want to stay, you might be ready to get married and to your partner, but if the answer is that you'd rather move on, you might be ready to get married but possibly not to this person.
Is it because you love your partner so deeply that you feel almost like you have to marry them? If the answer is yes, I'd take that as a good sign, but I'd caution against getting married just yet. In my opinion, you should get married only after the novelty of the relationship has worn off and you can think soberly about what exactly marriage to this person would look like — and, not to put a downer on things, but what divorce with this person might look like, too. If you can't think of any potential risks or downsides to spending your lives together, you might be too twitterpated to get married (yet).
Your partner should ask themselves the same questions, and you should make sure that you're generally aligned: both of you want to get married and specifically to each other, both of you are hoping to get the same (or at least compatible) things out of marriage, and your relationship has matured sufficiently that you can talk productively about issues you might run into (like differing ideas about housework, budgeting, raising kids, illness, in-laws, infidelity, recovering from lost passion, etc.).
Apart from all that, how much do you and your partner just plain like each other? Are you best friends? If one of you ended up in an accident and you couldn't have sex anymore or do any of your favorite romantic activities anymore, would you still love hanging out together? Would your relationship still be fun and interesting?
How's your compatibility? Does your relationship energize you or exhaust you? If something bad is going on in your life, does telling your partner make you feel better or worse? If you have to work on a project together or organize an activity together, does it leave you feeling closer or further apart? If your partner became depressed or ill or lost their income, do you like the idea of taking care of them, or does that sound awful?
If both of you can answer these questions to your mutual satisfaction and there's no glaring reason why you shouldn't get married, but you still have cold feet, think about where those cold feet could be coming from. Do you often get cold feet before making large or lifelong decisions, or are you getting uniquely bad feelings about this relationship? Are you (and/or your partner) someone who tends to jump into big decisions and then regret them later, or are you (and/or your partner) someone who routinely gets anxious before big decisions even when they're the right decision and you're ultimately happy you made them? Do any of your friends or family share your reservations, and if so, what are their concerns?
This is really great insight! OP, I'm not sure where you are in life and relationships, but you don't necessarily have to get married, and I don't think everyone's relationship style or lifestyle is necessarily suited to it.
For me, I wanted a person in my life with whom I could live with and be intimate with and make a family unit with. That doesn't require marriage, but I wanted a life partner. That also meant that I needed to find someone 1) that generally had similar interests, and that I enjoyed living and adventuring and talking with, 2) that I felt able to communicate with, and in particular able to disagree with, and 3) also wanted to be my life partner. I dated a few different people that failed critically on at least one of these points - I didn't feel able to disagree with a couple, and one just straight up did not listen to me, and one I found horrifically boring after a couple of years and I grew to actively dislike him. With all of the people I dated seriously, I felt committed to trying to make things work and only realized it wasn't working when some critically awful thing happened. I personally couldn't recognize when my love and effort weren't enough.
When I met my current husband, I had very low expectations initially. He was really cool and very easygoing, and he was also really supportive. There are times (now and also back then) where he could be really obstinate, or where it took multiple conversations to explain my feelings, but we were always able to get to a place where we understood each other, even if we didn't agree. We were both at places in our lives where we felt ready to be married, and I think that's also a really important criterion to marriage. When you feel ready to settle down and do the family thing, if you do, it's important to find a person that's also there. If I had met my spouse in my 20s, I don't think I would have been ready to settle down and likely would have polluted our relationship in some way. Timing was genuinely really important for me.
I don't think there's necessarily a way to know "the one". I've met some people I felt deeply connected with, and we are good friends, but personally I think there's a lot of other life mechanics that determine whether someone makes a good life partner/spouse. I agree with the adage that "love is not enough"; for me, both people need to be on the same page emotionally and try to be there for and support each other. It is an every day kind of thing, where you choose to be there and be supportive even when you might be tired and need a time out. I would recommend just doing the thing, live your life and see what happens.
The question isn't right. There is no person you "should" marry, unless you're an 18th century European aristocrat or other player in a multi-generational Imperial politicking situation.
You'll know if the person you're with is someone you want to marry because you'll feel like you want to marry them. If you don't think that then... don't marry them!
It's also important to remember that marriage is just a legal state. It doesn't really change anything about your relationship as human beings. You're still the same people the day after as you were the day before. So if you want to spend your life with a particular someone just.. do that. Maybe you'll both want to get married, maybe you won't.
Maybe you'll spend 15 years together and then find out that actually one of you quite likes the idea and the other hadn't even thought of it so you get married then (happened to me). Maybe it'll be cheaper to get married than to draw up the relevant documents to ensure everyone has legal rights over the kids or shared property should one partner die (several friends of mine). Maybe you'll get married, spend 25 happy years together then get amicably divorced at 60 because your lives are going in different directions (another friend last month).
It doesn't matter.
I agree overall with all the comments that there is no one. I think there are multiple ones, and that you're really trying to find someone that clicks well with you. That's not to say that it's a perfect match, relationships are still a lot of work. But when the times get tough, they will work together with you as a team. It'll be the both of you figuring the tough times out together, even when it feels like the tough times are trying to pit you against each other.
That being said, here were some early signs that my current partner is a one. Almost all of this happened in the first couple of years of the relationship.
So, it kinda feels cliche, but I think it's really when you know it's working, you know. You feel comfortable being yourself, and you want your partner to be themselves too. Me and my partner also have done couples counseling, cause at one point our relationship was having a breakdown in communication. I'll remember that the therapist also said a good sign a couple will make it, is if they respect each other, even when they're angry at each other. So, I presume that is also a good sign of finding a one.
All of this of course presumes that the relationship is not abusive (which is also a sign that respect is missing from the abusive partner). In which case, you may feel some of the things I listed above, but it is being used against you by your abuser. If you feel like you're walking on egg shells around them, even if you feel the above, that is a bad sign. Just thought I would throw this out for anyone who needs it.
You are your only "the one".
Even in the best case scenario, where you find someone with whom it just clicks and everything feels natural, that's no guarantee that it will stay that way. People change, you'll change, and something that was once beautiful and sweet can turn into poison for both of you. Someone can go from saying they want to grow old together to leaving you alone and penniless within a shockingly short span.
This doesn't mean it's not worth it to look for someone you love and love to be with. But there is no perfect pair for you out there with whom everything is going to magically work. If there were, I'd still be married to mine. Relationships are hard work and it's impossible to guarantee they won't eventually break. Plenty of things like that are worth doing regardless, but don't make them the foundation for your entire life and personality. You need to invest in and protect yourself first and foremost.
Ooh chills, I'm stealing this one and keeping it forever. Along with @DefinitelyNotAFae's "people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks whose rounding you're willing to do".
Aw thanks! I worried that my comment came across as too "divorced-coded", but this is something I really do believe.
My wife and I have been married 14 years, together for going on 20.
"The One" doesn't exist.
I picked my wife (and she picked me), because I found her interesting. I wasn't really sure I wanted to date her in the first place; I thought she was cute, but not the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen. But, she had these things about her that I really enjoyed;, she was (is) sarcastic and could rip me to shreds, which is a personality trait I enjoy in people (and myself). She had a dark sense of humor and would laugh at my dark jokes.
She had some traits I really wasn't into; she's extroverted (that's grown on me over the years) and likes to go out, travel, etc, compared to my introversion and homebodied nature. She loved to go to parties and would constantly drag me to them, much to my chagrin.
But I stuck it out, because I hadn't met many women with that sense of humor that connected with mine. I figured, "Well, let's try this out. I really like that about her, even if there's other stuff I don't care for." And yeah, we are and were compatible, but it's also work. It was always work and still is work. I'm thankful she's willing to compromise and do some self-examination, just as I am, so we're both amenable to changing our behavior and looking at things from each others perspective; I believe this is what has kept our relationship strong. We fight, absolutely. But we calm down, we apologize, we talk about it and say sorry when we understand we're wrong or we explain to each other why we might have been angry and our reasoning behind it and we listen.
I think I could be happy with another person and I think there's plenty of other people out there who I could build a good relationship with. There's no, "The One", it's just finding someone who has some traits you rank highly (such as that sense of humor for my wife) and then building out from there. But we've been able to build this relationship through mutual trust and understanding and it's been a strong foundation for the both of us. I'm kind of getting mealy mouthed here, I guess, but what I'm trying to say is:
The grass is greenest where you water it
To put things simply.
I feel like it's important to note that there's not any particular reason to think that everyone has a singular person that they are going to be happy in a single monogamous relationship with for the rest of their life. Some people seem to find this, some people don't. Sometimes people that appear to have found this actually spend their lives hiding their misery from everyone outside their marriage. Some people seem to be genuinely happy (on net) for their whole lives with their spouse/life partner. Some people have multiple life partners. Some have little (or big) polycule families. Some don't have any life partners at all, but have shorter relationships with many people, either in sequence or simultaneously.
I've been married to my wife for almost 4 years. We've been a monogamous couple for almost 13 (!!). Before that, I had dated a lot of people, which I think was a good thing. I had had some relationships that lasted a week, some that lasted several months, some that lasted years. I learned a lot about what I was like in different relationships and what I liked in my relationship partners. I learned how to be a good partner myself.
With my wife, everything built slowly. At each point that we decided to move forward in our relationship, we both found that we felt like it was past time to take that step, so we did. After two years of dating, an opportunity arose to move into the same apartment building (different apartments), and we both thought "well, we're already spending nearly every night together, this'll make that easier for sure". Then it was time to move across the country for work, and we both thought "well, I really don't want to be on the other side of the country from you". And then it was time to get a dog, and move again, and get another dog, and move again, and at some point we both started thinking "we seem pretty committed to this relationship, do we want to get married? Why?"
For us, getting married wasn't itself a life change. Unlike moving in together, or adopting a dog (or a second dog), or moving across the country together, we didn't think anything would change after we got married (we were right). Rather, marriage was a way for us to tell our families and friends "this person is maximally important to me — I'm starting a family with them, and they're going to be here for a while. You should get to know each other." The framing for our wedding was: let's get all our favorite people in one place so that my favorite people and my wife's favorite people can spend time together and become one big group of our favorite people.
Now we have our first kid, and we're eyeing a seconsd, and I feel endlessly lucky to have found my wife exactly when I did, when both of us were single and compatible and ready to try something new and meaningful. Our favorite thing about our relationship is how well we solve problems, for ourselves and each other and our family. We are able to talk through what we're feeling without feeling judged or ashamed (mostly). We're able to work together to find solutions for the problems we're facing, or just comfort each other when there are no solutions. We're a good team. And we love each other with a deep, knowing love. We really understand and care about each other. We want to meet each other's needs.
But all of that came with time (a lot of time!). We're completely different people now than when we first met. We grew together, rather than apart, and we keep growing together, it seems.
There are things we look for when dating or meeting someone interesting - values and goals that align well enough, sexual and emotional compatibility, absence of red flags, having a fun time together etc. Once I've met someone that feels right, I tend to hold my horses until I've had at least a couple major disagreements with them and gotten to see and experience their negative personality traits (which every human has), and they mine. That's when I know.
Most people can get along fine when it's just a normal, fun day without extra challenge. But in life, we occasionally face challenging situations and get into arguments. The way you and your partner go through those is extremely important. If the way you resolve conflicts repeatedly leaves one or both of you feeling hurt or unheard, your happiness is going to be eroded over time. If conflict resolution works well, with both people expressing themselves openly and feeling heard, and if your partner's worst traits are tolerable for you (and vice versa), that relationship is built to last.
My answer might differ from others, but after 2 failed relationships in 2 years, those two being the only girls I had in 30 years, loving being single... it was tough to find "the one". So I listened to the others who said you will never find someone if you set such high expectations. So I took the time to find out what I reaaaally wanted in a girlfriend.
I figured that if I loved gaming/playing, with people and alone, then I wanted someone who could give me that. I wanted someone that was able to communicate well, someone that let me be who I am and is willing to work with me.
My girlfriend is not the prettiest, she has her issues, she has her mood swings. But she has what I really wanted. And for that I will love her to death. She has tons of qualities that I "discovered" through the relationship and it's still so fun to be with her.
It is work though. If you are unwilling to compromise, to take blame or to self-reflect, you're doomed. You will never be happy. There are some things that to you are evident, some things you're like "you must do it this way". But the reality of life is that we all see life from our point of view. But our point of view is not the "truth".
Find the one you're willing to work for. Not the one that "fits all criteria". Because you'll really find that unless you spend a TON of time with someone, you never truly know them. You think they fit the criteria, but you'll have many surprises...
As someone who has never been in a relationship, this question is regularly on my mind as well. I'm aware that this is likely due to me fearing rejection, and that I should just throw myself out there and see where things goes. But the other part is when imagining what a hypothetical relationship would look like, it just feels like a lot of work, and the reward doesn't seem worth it. Like, I'm barely able to manage time for myself, now I need to find time for a whole other person?
To build onto your question, I guess "the one" in my case would be someone who'd make me feel like I want to find time for. But after so long not having come across such a person, does it mean I should keep looking and wait till this unknown feeling make itself known one day, or maybe it's time to revise my expectation and follow some other more "objective" guideline?
It's probably lucky for me that I've only found out about "incel culture" as a concept pretty late otherwise I could have been swept into it for sure.
I had similar feelings first couple years out of college. Never been in a relationship, I was trying to get myself together in terms of living on my own, in a new apartment, in a new job. I didn't have the effort or interest in pursuing romantic relationships. Focused on being independent and on my career, making friends. And that's okay. I thought about relationships in terms of thought experiments but never acted on them. At some point I felt like I adjusted to my new lifestyle and routine, and the next step was to find a life long partner, so next I had to consider romantic relationships. I mentally became more open to the idea, and when I had an opportunity to date someone I was interested in I took it, over time decided to commit to our relationship and now we are getting married :)
I think everyone has their own time line of when they will be ready. Or maybe marriage isn't necessarily your goal and that's okay too.
I'm still at the point where I need to sort out my life routines I suppose. If my path would turn out similar to yours, guess it'd be alright.
How is your friendship life, do you have a variety of types of friends of different gender? I don't know about you at all so this isn't a snap judgement just a curiosity: there are some people I know who find it hard to get into a romantic relationship because they don't meet a lot of people they invest time into getting to know on a deeper level. Some people only discover folks they want to spend time for only after they've got lots of practice making themselves spend time on "okay" people: that people grow on them after a while from "meh" to "after what we talked about / experienced together today I'm in love with them".
That sounds like me haha, my social circle are colleagues and a couple of friends from uni who are still nearby so not much variety. We mostly just talk about work or catching up, our hobbies don't match so conversations usually don't grow well there. There were few occasions that I run into someone with the same interest, but even then I still struggle to keep the conversation going, so maybe I just don't know how to talk (and/or listen), at least not in a way that could deepen a relationship I guess.
I found that I am continuing to be a better and better partner by becoming their closer friend, even after 20 years of marriage. There's a lot of skill overlaps here, that I think folks waiting for a romantic partner should really be working on the whole time. In no particular order and not limited to:
overcoming "it's easier if I just stay home / do this alone / do it my way" : the person is sharing your life
putting in effort even when you kinda don't feel like it
regular check in
self restraint when you have something to say or a sudden intrusive joke or whatever: read their mood a bit and see if there is a need or if what you wanted to share is hurtful / ill timed unintentionally
not blowing them off if you made a prior commitment and then something fun came along or you'd rather not
be quick to apologize if it's your fault - do not excuse your way out just apologize for the no excuse portion. And likewise when they upset you, be slow to anger, listen first, and try to be curious about why they did something like that that hurt you . Rom Coms would be a completely dead genre if characters would just listen first.
practice thinking about them when you do small things like make your own travel plans or getting a new game
get their advice if this is their wheelhouse, doesn't mean you have to take all of it but just involving them in something you're doing
@thearctic -- there's no such thing as the one, but there are signs of one of the ones you could spend the rest of your life with. a good partner is someone who see you doing the above, show appreciation for you, and returns your energy in match. And someone who isn't, is someone that sees you doing this and leans in further to squeeze more out of you : a bad partner may do the above especially as part of the initial charm phase or during the Hoover phase of an abusive cycle, but their default setting is gleefully squeezing a bit more and a bit more, making your world feel smaller when you spend time with them, and when you come home from a date you feel worn down and lonely rather than energized and cared for.
I didn't. I'm not monogamous. I've found "a" one, but a don't really believe in "the" one.
I forget whose framing this was but I believe in people who round up to your 1, and you find the folks whose rounding you're willing to do.
Trying to find a perfect 1 or to round up from too low of a number will leave you miserable in either direction.
And all relationships end, until one (or more) doesn't.*
*Arguably with death all do but that's not really what people mean in these questions.
Ooohhhh I really love this. Never heard it framed this way before, but in my (very autistic) circle of friends we've had conversations about exactly this, just not said as succinctly. Hopefully it will stick in my brain long enough to share the next time the topic comes up!
I wish I remember who I got it from! But it's always made more sense for me than expecting a "perfect" 1, you know?
In one of my fantasy series (Owlsight, Valdemar, by Mercedes Lackey) there was a wedding ceremony whose direct quote I cannot find and it's got similar vibes to me as it speaks to how you're not two people becoming one, you're always two people, but you're two people choosing to walk down the path together.
Which implies you may choose otherwise in the future. And I think the acceptance of endings is something we struggle with as a society, so this feels particularly meaningful to me.
Not sure if it's his original thought, but I have heard Dan Savage say it many times (and a variation on "all relationships end" or "a relationship that ends isn't necessarily a failed one, it's just a relationship").
Dan Savage is a very likely source for the "all relationships end until one doesn't". I read him in the weekly STL paper in college and as a young polyamorous person he was one of the few public sources of affirmation.
He may be the source of the "round up to one" too.
After 15 years with my highschool sweetheart, beginning and finishing our respective university curriculum (semi long distance), moving together and getting stable jobs, marriage seems like the natural next step.
Moving together to see if we could really live together was the perceived hardest challenge (turns out it wasn't hard).
For me really just a case of never questioning otherwise. Not being together is about as alien as asking whether I should keep my right arm, so any doubt has never been present. We have been together since we were 15 and just matured and grown together, having the same priorities in life and it never feels wrong for any of us.
Growing up and growing old together is such a blessing when it happens, glad for you guys! (Also folks who get together early get to celebrate all kinds of big milestones well ahead of our peers as well)
It's messy, its complicated, and maybe a bit spiritual?
At the very core, long-term romantic relationships are simultaneously:
'The One' is simply one idea of how this done. Having a singular romantic partner that one establishes as their legal equal is a facet of our culture, not a universal human innateness. Other romantic partnership structures have emerged over the course of human history. In fact, the current "Mainstream" version of a romantic legal partnership is something that emerged from specific Victorian ideals, which were later reinterpreted as "family values" during the middle of the 20th century, as part of a cultural push for the "nuclear family." As my girlfriend might aptly put it, "Most people in our culture are really mono-brained."
I assume that monogamy and the idea of 'One True Person' or even 'One True Partnership that gets Formed" must work for someone, but in my experience, most people actually don't like to think that way, and instead force that idea into themselves to feel secure. Most people have multiple relationships in life, and most of those relationships don't work out.
Additionally, I feel our culture has a massive blind spot around what courtship is, and lacks the proper vocabulary to discuss it. This gets wrapped up in in the present gender dynamics and discourse, and whatever new-wave or retro-wave trends are present.
For example: In my relationship with my wife, we found almost immediately there was an economic differences in our family backgrounds. Over the course of our relationship, my privilege and familial resources were used for the procurement of several big-ticket items that she expressly owns. (Her car, and the house we jointly own) Romantically, that can be interpreted as dowry payments for her hand in marriage. However, these items are also expressly used as an aspect of our partnership. Logically? my wife is more effective with a fully functioning vehicle that she enjoys using, and the honourable thing for me to do as a partner, is for me to ensure that she has adequate ownership of our shared domicile.
And these are things we discuss! Our relationship has been a conversation, a series of ongoing negotiations for the two of us to work on our long term goals. We both work to provide for each other's unique personal wants and needs. Ultimately, our personal respect for each other and our choices is what has allowed us to love each other long term. Polyamory was something that was discussed when we got back together after our 8th break-up. Getting a house was something we discussed as a long term goal, was agreed to over other goals, and then was something we both worked on achieving.
Meanwhile, my girlfriend is someone I had known for years, had discussed opinions about polyamory with, and was someone who knew and understood who I was. Beginning a relationship with her was something that was discussed with my wife, and with her. Rules and boundaries were established, with long term understandings of our life plans. She and my wife are good friends, and frequently work together on household projects.
Finally, Love is as much terror as it is enjoyment. In my opinion, you cannot love anyone until you've fully admitted to yourself that you would be upset if they were gone from your life. Love has that cost.
I mention all of these various sub-points, because that is the nuance and nitty-gritty required for a long term romantic partnership. While I Love both my wife and my girlfriend, our long term relationship is ultimately sustainable by secured by a complex series of agreements and understandings that as built from the ground up.
With all that in mind, I'll answer your question.
With my Wife, I knew quickly. Part of it is hard for me to rationalize since its all hindsight this many years later.
There was this moment when we first locked eyes, on a staircase. She wondering how she had managed to bump into the exact person she was planning to dodge going on a date with, and me thinking that it was funny that I'd bumped into the very cute girl I was about to go on a date with, and that she looked very cute when she was bewildered.
There was the time my (then) best friend had a mental health crisis, and the subsequent fallout ended the friendship. This was right after a particularly bad breakup with her, and without knowing who else to talk to, I called her.
I recall us cuddling in my dorm room, and me telling her my philosophy about relationships. That every stage of our relationship was about both of us taking a chance - and that I would keep taking chances until I ran out of chances. (part of this is a quote from Rogue One) Anyways, I asked her to marry me shortly after the first time we broke up and got back together. I'd only known her about two months at that point.
Maybe I realized she was the one during a late night chat, wandering the hallways of our terrible little college, or on an off night from when we were both working overnights.
Or perhaps it was after I bailed her out of a situation for the third time in 3 years, effortlessly resolving an issue of immense stress and hardship for her, with me realizing that I would bail this woman out of anything, and I should probably come to terms with that.
I guess it could have been the valentines day that I finally came out of the closet, and she unambiguously supported me, and helped me process and try on clothes.
In total, she dumped me 8 times, (I dumped her twice), Cops were called at least twice, I changed genders, she realized how gay she was, and we were negotiating at every stage of the process. We've lived in 3 different cities. Our relationship ultimately worked out because She is gay, I am a woman, and we both are very morally flexible people who come from weird backgrounds. Oh, and fate liked to intervene.
Without saying more, discussions of power, honour, and betrayal have always been present in our talks. Ultimately, as she does make the majority of the food, she could easily poison me. I trust her to only do that if its necessary.
I've asked her how she knew. She's said that it was a series of evaluations she made over time, with her deciding that her feelings were supported by the logical best series of outcomes.
The first time I asked her to marry me, I asked two of my family friends about it. They told me they both had known quickly with their partners. I didn't ask my parents. To add the one point of relevant advice that doesn't fit anywhere else, my father would always say "never marry a woman who hasn't thrown a plate at you."
I call her my soulmate, but that didn't just happen. It was luck, hard work, emotional moments, and blood, sweat and tears, and us understanding who we both were. Polyamory, and the ability to have multiple partners, is a part of that. We're at a decade.
With my girlfriend, it was when in a protracted argument over Axis and Allies, a (now former) friend of ours rolled her eyes, and said "would you just kiss already." From there, it developed organically, and with the express consent of my wife.
I think for her, it was when I realized I found myself smiling anytime I thought about her. The relationship is recent, but I find that time moves quickly these days.
So, to finally and FULLY answer your question, "When do you know that you've found "the person you marry'?" It's F---ing complicated. It's a question humanity has always asked, always fretted over, and poets and musicians will eternally attempt to capture.
To Me? It was personal. It was having hope, it was negotiating, and it was giving in to fate, and it was doing the irrational thing because I loved someone. It was knowing when to surrender, and knowing when to pursue. It was knowing when to yield, when to admit I was wrong, and when to forgive. And until I had all that hindsight later, it was letting my heart and head come to a union, and acting then insisting, in face of any evidence, that my relationship was going to work out that way.
Oh, and when you know you want to marry someone? Make sure you sign a pre-nup.
I'm gonna have to be a bit cynical and say that you will know it in about 3 years into the relationship if you're paying attention. I'm in a great relationship for 8+ years and the first 1-2 years it felt almost the same as my earlier poor relationships.
Then again, there's experience. I don't think I'd make those mistakes again.
According to the statements of random straight couples on social media for the past 1.5+ decades: When you fart comfortably in front of each other.
Sadly, not a definitive criterion in my experience.
I wish I knew. I thought I felt it twice, and both relationships ended up failing. After those experiences I've given up looking for a life partner.
I guess you just throw your hat in and hope for the best. On a long enough relationship timeline, you either grow together or you grow apart.
So, I agree with everyone: my belief system doesn't allow me to have concepts like "the one" or "destined marriage." I believe we must, statistically, have lots of "the ones" every day based on who we are at that nexus in time. I think with one guy, I imagined a monogamish setup where he'd travel and bang and I'd have a delightful amount of time to myself and my hobbies. With another, I imagined a Tim Burton / Helena Bonham Carter setup, where we would live apart yet right next door. With another, whose relationship ended over having or not having kids, I toyed with the idea of being pregnant and the awkward hilarity of our parents meeting given the age difference... the possibilities were endless. However, dating was... it took a lot of time and disappointment. So by the time you get there, despite every single permutation of choice, mistake, and the slightest difference of feeling-- literally every other possible outcome... as you realize you and the person in front of you love each other anyway, it definitely will feel, to some degree, it couldn't have happened with anyone else. Your "one."
Now to actually answer the question. He and I came in as 2 really independent people who didn't necessarily see marriage as being in the cards or a need. I can say we're now really sweet together, we do talk about marriage, and I feel a new and positive dimension that I discovered being with someone kind who made me feel safe. These are the moments I think about in hindsight. Hard to say how often these things happened and I just retconned it after the guy didn't work out, but nevertheless: