I don't think anyone can conclude that the protest is over or has failed when this many subreddits are still private or restricting submissions, yet I've read many users saying exactly that. Let's...
I don't think anyone can conclude that the protest is over or has failed when this many subreddits are still private or restricting submissions, yet I've read many users saying exactly that. Let's follow the data and see what happens because we won't know the full impact of the protest in the short-term.
I don't know what the full scale impact will be, but personally I've realized it's time I began contributing at tilde more seriously. I already don't trust corporate governance, and now it's clear...
I don't know what the full scale impact will be, but personally I've realized it's time I began contributing at tilde more seriously. I already don't trust corporate governance, and now it's clear that Reddit's is rotten.
I have always been a lurker/infrequent poster on most forums dating all the way back to old BBS posts, but as the years have gone on I have increasingly lurked more and posted less, Reddit being...
Exemplary
I have always been a lurker/infrequent poster on most forums dating all the way back to old BBS posts, but as the years have gone on I have increasingly lurked more and posted less, Reddit being no exception. In my near daily (lurking) use of Reddit, it is (in my estimation) been rotten for a while. But like any large entity, it takes a while for the affects of that rottenness to become apparent to more observers. Bots, low effort posts, reposts, the evolution of meta posting, increasing segregation and division. And yet I continued to lurk. Because what would my one voice do against that tide.
"I've realized it's time I began contributing at tilde..." really resonated with me. I am very new to tildes but the feel of this place is like a breath of fresh air in the world of an increasingly corporate internet and reminds me of an earlier time. Old lurking habits may die hard and while Reddit maybe rotten, I am going to contribute my voice to tildes.
Agreed. This whole situation has honestly been a big positive for me. Discovering Tildes has led to me contributing a lot more, and having some actual conversations.
Agreed. This whole situation has honestly been a big positive for me. Discovering Tildes has led to me contributing a lot more, and having some actual conversations.
I really resonate with this. I only rarely posted/commented when I first joined reddit 12 years ago, and as time went on I stopped completely. I still lurked daily, but saw the quality of content...
I really resonate with this. I only rarely posted/commented when I first joined reddit 12 years ago, and as time went on I stopped completely. I still lurked daily, but saw the quality of content deteriorate to the point where most of what I was seeing was bots/ads/spam. Even with the poor content I still lurked, mostly because Apollo was so well designed and fixed a lot of what was broken with the official app.
I recently joined tildes, and I am finding a desire to post/comment again which I haven't felt for a long time on reddit. It's like waking up from a bad dream and finding the internet of old again.
Based on the Reddit internal memo from spez that was revealed yesterday, its clear he's dismissive of the Reddit user community and surprisingly ignorant of just how much his site relies on unpaid...
Based on the Reddit internal memo from spez that was revealed yesterday, its clear he's dismissive of the Reddit user community and surprisingly ignorant of just how much his site relies on unpaid labor and contributions by its users, especially a core group of power users who do most of the moderation, posting and commenting.
Reddit creates nothing, and contributes nothing - they're just a clearinghouse. The value is in their user base. Spez alienates them at his peril.
Remember when it was bought by Conde, we held our noses but kept on, then 10 percent was bought by tencent, keeping the nose closed, then the complete inability to browse reddit on mobile without...
Remember when it was bought by Conde, we held our noses but kept on, then 10 percent was bought by tencent, keeping the nose closed, then the complete inability to browse reddit on mobile without crashing your device....like how does that even work? But we kept on because we had 3rd party apps like redreader which is getting an api pass since it is open source, ad free and 2000 employees can't figure out how to cater to those with a disability.
It's like someone stealing your lunch for so long you just get used to it.
Sorry, I'm just a bit of a pessimist and seeing ones stop being dark and some of the responses that support that or even never wanted them to go dark has me being pessimistic. In the end, time...
Sorry, I'm just a bit of a pessimist and seeing ones stop being dark and some of the responses that support that or even never wanted them to go dark has me being pessimistic.
I've checked in on a few subs who decided to poll their users. And while, this makes sense in theory, it's very likely that those that want the sub to remain closed simply aren't browsing reddit...
I've checked in on a few subs who decided to poll their users. And while, this makes sense in theory, it's very likely that those that want the sub to remain closed simply aren't browsing reddit at all.
I had the same reaction when I went back to my 2 favorite subs that had reopened, but just like everything else on reddit, the loudest individuals skew our perception of the overall user base.
I had the same reaction when I went back to my 2 favorite subs that had reopened, but just like everything else on reddit, the loudest individuals skew our perception of the overall user base.
I'm also pessimistic and think this will simply keep escalating. Sure, maybe enough people are happy with using eht website, but I wouldn't be surprised if old.reddit gets hit on the chopping...
I'm also pessimistic and think this will simply keep escalating. Sure, maybe enough people are happy with using eht website, but I wouldn't be surprised if old.reddit gets hit on the chopping block within the next 12 months at this rate.
And then even worse than that with extensions somehow. The Reddit Enhancement Suite is the literal lifeblood of reddit for me and provided features year ahead, or at least allowed me to work around features reddit (IMO) regressed on. If reddit breaks that I don't see any going back for me.
This is good news! I for one was very skeptical of a protest with a fixed two-day length (the result was obviously going to be what we saw, which was reddit saying they didn't care and they could...
This is good news! I for one was very skeptical of a protest with a fixed two-day length (the result was obviously going to be what we saw, which was reddit saying they didn't care and they could outlast it easily). If these 6000 subs keep going, I guess there's a chance that something maybe comes from this.
The number has slowly ticked down while I've had the window open for about half an hour. Presumably as people come online, have their internal discussions, then flip the switch. We'll have a much...
The number has slowly ticked down while I've had the window open for about half an hour. Presumably as people come online, have their internal discussions, then flip the switch. We'll have a much better idea of the indefinite protesters in 24 hours once we're a little more removed from the initial 48-hour period.
There's also continuing talk for some subs that have reopened on what should be done going forward. Talk ranges from going dark one day a week (Tuesday has been mentioned a few times) to extending...
There's also continuing talk for some subs that have reopened on what should be done going forward. Talk ranges from going dark one day a week (Tuesday has been mentioned a few times) to extending the blackout.
https://www.adweek.com/social-marketing/ripples-through-reddit-as-advertisers-weather-moderators-strike/ Advertisers are wary. The next couple weeks will make or break the revenue stream that is...
I was just talking about that in another thread because my company advertises on reddit. Didn't have any ongoing campaigns, but we were planning to run ads over the summer and are now having a...
I was just talking about that in another thread because my company advertises on reddit. Didn't have any ongoing campaigns, but we were planning to run ads over the summer and are now having a totally different discussion about reddit. I have to assume larger companies that make up a lot more of reddit's ad revenue are having similar discussions.
That article makes me think that subs staying closed, even if it's not all of them, could be effective. It sounds like part of the appeal of reddit to advertisers is targeted ads on relevant...
That article makes me think that subs staying closed, even if it's not all of them, could be effective. It sounds like part of the appeal of reddit to advertisers is targeted ads on relevant subreddits. Anything that splinters subreddits, either through users making new subreddits in response to a sub being closed, or reddit replacing mods and angering the subreddit could effectively hurt reddit's profitability. Interesting read.
In a way, I'm relieved. Lately the internet feels hostile. Misinformation was always rampant, but now it's industrialized and sharp. It doesn't even matter what the sources are or what the context...
In a way, I'm relieved.
Lately the internet feels hostile. Misinformation was always rampant, but now it's industrialized and sharp. It doesn't even matter what the sources are or what the context is, because all you need to do is make a few people angry to make something go viral and make even more people angry. Then once you find your crowd and you know what works, you just keep doubling down.
Rage was found by bad actors to be the most profitable to exploit, and the easiest to abuse. When you're angry you don't care about the source or the context, you sort of let your guard down, and in doing so you're exposing yourself to predatory manipulation from your peers. Overtime, your common sense begins to shift to the point where it can radically different from other people's outside your bubble of hatred.
I remember Reddit before 2012. Before the front page was laced with trying to get me to resent someone or something. Although I never posted, I still felt at home. Fast forward to today, and even though I was active on Reddit, I never felt safe. I never felt like I understand the other person, because a lot of the time I wasn't even sure if it was a person. That, or if they're not just driving outrage to pass the time.
Having been on here for just a day or two I already feel at ease, and after experiencing this kind of web again I struggle to imagine going back. I genuinely believe that if things continue to get worse, these kinds of semi-public communities are the only place where you'll be able to reliably and verifiably speak to other "normal" people, meaning people that know how to engage with others with some semblance of maturity. I assume that Tildes isn't planning on keeping this semi-public state forever, and I trust that it will only be removed with a clear maintenance plan, but I have to admit there's something calming about being surrounded by comprehensive and high-quality discussion without scrolling past miles of inane comments trying to win likes or whatever.
Of the politics and politics-adjacent subs I wonder how many 'right' leaning and 'left' leaning subs have gone dark, and is there a relationship with collectivist values & individualistic values?...
Of the politics and politics-adjacent subs I wonder how many 'right' leaning and 'left' leaning subs have gone dark, and is there a relationship with collectivist values & individualistic values?
Just had this exact conversation! My guess is that those of us more informed and opposed to quarterly vulture capitalism will leave, so I'd guess reddit would become more individualistic and...
Just had this exact conversation! My guess is that those of us more informed and opposed to quarterly vulture capitalism will leave, so I'd guess reddit would become more individualistic and right. I am definitely biased, though.
I can only imagine what that will do to the community. It was already unpleasant outside of reasonably moderated subs, so with both mods and the left leaving disproportionately, this could spur on...
I can only imagine what that will do to the community. It was already unpleasant outside of reasonably moderated subs, so with both mods and the left leaving disproportionately, this could spur on a unrecoverable slide into being a hateful toxic shithole. Think Voat, just 10,000x bigger.
In any event, that'll be a ton of potential advertising revenue down the drain. I don't think we'll see the full impact for a little while though. See what the place looks like at months end.
In any event, that'll be a ton of potential advertising revenue down the drain.
I don't think we'll see the full impact for a little while though. See what the place looks like at months end.
It looks like subreddits will also start trying their own forms of protest. Some are just staying restricted for example. Some are asking their communities what should be done. It’s cool to see so...
It looks like subreddits will also start trying their own forms of protest. Some are just staying restricted for example. Some are asking their communities what should be done. It’s cool to see so many different approaches.
i don't think staying closed will do anything, honestly. there are just too many subreddits not participating. by staying closed all the subreddits are doing is limiting access to information and...
i don't think staying closed will do anything, honestly. there are just too many subreddits not participating. by staying closed all the subreddits are doing is limiting access to information and shooting their community on the foot, and a lot of people “protesting” are not even deleting their reddit account and moving to alternatives like tildes.
i guess a better way to do this is by not moderating and letting reddit just become a cesspool, but that gives the admins a reason to replace mods (“they’re inactive”). i don’t know, i think at this point there’s no real way reddit is going to back down even with indefinite shutdowns.
I privated a sub I made years ago and deleted my account. It was reopened with new mods. Not sure how it happens but sure they will just reopen the closed subs
I privated a sub I made years ago and deleted my account. It was reopened with new mods. Not sure how it happens but sure they will just reopen the closed subs
I think some are missing this point. The subs will be reopened. The only problem will be if new moderators step up and how well those moderators can perform that job. Poor moderation will end up...
I think some are missing this point. The subs will be reopened. The only problem will be if new moderators step up and how well those moderators can perform that job. Poor moderation will end up leading to a migration.... to equivalent subreddits more than anything. Moving people off of Reddit will require them to have a compelling reason to leave. Probably a combination of a good alternative plus an even worse scenario on Reddit than the present situation.
If mods remain active on the site and don't delete their accounts, then their subreddits won't be scooped up so easily. Not without the admins completely revamping the /r/redditrequest rules and...
I think some are missing this point. The subs will be reopened.
If mods remain active on the site and don't delete their accounts, then their subreddits won't be scooped up so easily. Not without the admins completely revamping the /r/redditrequest rules and processing requests manually. The only reasons the person you're responding to lost their sub are (presumably) because they deleted their account, they were the only mod of that subreddit, and the /r/redditrequest process handled it automatically based on that criteria. The bot doesn't work if the mods are still active on the site.
The subreddits don't have to be scooped up. We're already seen new subreddits getting created to take the place of some of the subs that plan to remain dark indefinitely. If subs continue to stay...
The subreddits don't have to be scooped up. We're already seen new subreddits getting created to take the place of some of the subs that plan to remain dark indefinitely. If subs continue to stay dark, I suspect more new subs will pop up to take their place.
Even then, we may still be watching the decline and fall of Reddit but it will take some time.
I don't really see it myself. The Internet was unmoderated for many years and went just fine. People just need to take things less seriously and use their own brains to filter content. Reddit...
I don't really see it myself. The Internet was unmoderated for many years and went just fine. People just need to take things less seriously and use their own brains to filter content. Reddit would do just fine only removing illegal content and letting everything else be a fee for all. It might even make it grow
It's a wild opinion to have that makes me believe that they haven't seen what unmoderated large communities actually look like these days. Between trolls, spam bots, and just downright unpleasant...
It's a wild opinion to have that makes me believe that they haven't seen what unmoderated large communities actually look like these days.
Between trolls, spam bots, and just downright unpleasant people; subreddits quickly go to shit when unmoderated.
If you don't tend a garden, it's soon infested with weeds and vermin. It's a depressingly short trip from unmoderated "free speech" to racist hate speech and CP.
If you don't tend a garden, it's soon infested with weeds and vermin.
It's a depressingly short trip from unmoderated "free speech" to racist hate speech and CP.
When was the internet unmoderated? Every community I've ever been a part of including those in the earlier days of the web was moderated much, much tighter than most public websites today. It is...
When was the internet unmoderated? Every community I've ever been a part of including those in the earlier days of the web was moderated much, much tighter than most public websites today.
It is hard to filter content 24/7. I personally don't believe that it's okay to subject your users to an unending stream of dubious articles and ads made to be predatory. I shouldn't have to dig through articles to find out if someone's post is blatant misinformation designed to make me angry; when moderators fail to make sure the things posted to their forums are coherent and factual or at the very least rational, then that community will radicalize and take a side in some way, eventually.
I was always astounded when blatant and unabashed astroturfing and clickbait were just sitting at the top of popular subreddits. Like, the moderators became less about maintaining the community, and more about enforcing the rules. I think that the difference between the two is vast.
Yahoo chats was unmoderated so were most irc rooms I agree moderation is required especially to remove illegal content. I just don't think the way it's done on reddit works. The Internet was a...
Yahoo chats was unmoderated so were most irc rooms I agree moderation is required especially to remove illegal content. I just don't think the way it's done on reddit works. The Internet was a better place when barrier to entry was a keyboard and a mouse and setting up a 56k connection
I want to point out that while in theory this sounds nice, in practice at that point in history the internet was ridiculously expensive for the average family/person and unobtainable. Part of the...
The Internet was a better place when barrier to entry was a keyboard and a mouse and setting up a 56k connection
I want to point out that while in theory this sounds nice, in practice at that point in history the internet was ridiculously expensive for the average family/person and unobtainable. Part of the reason why there was so much “less” moderation at that point was because there were magnitudes less people on the internet.
Per this website, there were 4 billion people on the internet in 2020, and only 400 million in 2000. (FWIW, 1997 was when I first got in home internet that could be used on a regular basis, and there were only 120 million people with access. I was quite lucky.)
The halcyon days you are reaching for is one where only the absolute wealthiest and most privileged had constant access to the internet, and even then there was constant moderation, it was just far less obvious to you.
The unmoderated internet was only good for a time before spammers realized they could make use of those unmoderated locations. Usenet became a complete mess filled with bits of content scattered...
The unmoderated internet was only good for a time before spammers realized they could make use of those unmoderated locations. Usenet became a complete mess filled with bits of content scattered through a pile of spam and junk. Reddit would end up much the same place. Good if you're looking to drive people off Reddit. Not good if you're looking for Reddit to continue having interesting content.
If you deleted your account, that meant the subreddit was unmoderated. That made it eligible to be claimed by any other user via /r/RedditRequest. It's a very common process. (I've done it a few...
If you deleted your account, that meant the subreddit was unmoderated. That made it eligible to be claimed by any other user via /r/RedditRequest. It's a very common process. (I've done it a few times myself.)
Part of me is waiting for the shoe to drop where spez takes over the high subscriber subreddits and just replaces the mod team and reopens the subreddit if the protests go on too long. He'd cover...
Part of me is waiting for the shoe to drop where spez takes over the high subscriber subreddits and just replaces the mod team and reopens the subreddit if the protests go on too long. He'd cover it as "these protests are interfering with the users that don't want them to continue" despite polling previous showing very high for long term blackout
Where reddit is different to other large social networks is that they rely on its users for content and the work of thousands of unpaid mods to help keep the site somewhere people want to be....
Where reddit is different to other large social networks is that they rely on its users for content and the work of thousands of unpaid mods to help keep the site somewhere people want to be. Reddit for the most part don't do the moderating.
So yes, it is their company, they can do what the hell they like, but when they are looking to IPO in the coming months, it is a braindead move to piss off a large chunk of the most active mods/users who are the ones who make the site valuable.
There are obvious ways they could monetize that they have completely failed to entertain, rather they go down the shortsighted cost cutting route that will hurt them in the long run.
Well...yes, you're right. However, it feels like it's missing the point. Contractually, Reddit can do whatever they like, up to and including banning every moderator who participated in this and...
Well...yes, you're right. However, it feels like it's missing the point. Contractually, Reddit can do whatever they like, up to and including banning every moderator who participated in this and replacing them as soon as possible. Why haven't they? That would solve all these issues.
As a long-time critic of social media as we know it today, and all proprietary communication networks, this is the message that everyone needs to digest. If you don't own it, in a meaningful sense, then you cannot control what happens to it. The dumbing down of the average website, the loss of the games/computing -> technical skills pipeline through a ruthless sanding of rough edges has ensured that the web today is populated with users who refuse to challenge themselves to make the world a better place, because they've internalized the helplessness fostered by these poorly-moderated and perversely-motivated corporate forums. So they just throw a tantrum, because they don't know what else to do.
I really do worry that people have fewer options to learn how to misbehave. It's important to practice bucking authority, and it keeps getting harder to safely do so. I agree with you.
I really do worry that people have fewer options to learn how to misbehave. It's important to practice bucking authority, and it keeps getting harder to safely do so.
They are well within their right. However, the counterpoint to this is that then the users are also within their right to delete their content, get angry and leave. This is what happened with Digg...
I don't think Reddit is under any obligation to cater to it's users. If they reopen all subreddits under new management they are well within their rights. What's on the site is theirs to do with as they please.
They are well within their right. However, the counterpoint to this is that then the users are also within their right to delete their content, get angry and leave. This is what happened with Digg and numerous other social media in the past.
The "direct user" form of money making that Reddit (and Twitter with Blue) are attempting right now is, to be blunt, doomed to failure. API access will never make a substantial amount of revenue for a social media company, because the users aren't supposed to be the customers, they're the product. A thriving ecosystem of happy users is the best thing a social media company can have to ensure profitability through advertising and other monetization means. So yes, they absolutely can go down this road, but the amount of goodwill and social capital it will burn from the users who bring the most content to their website (via the 1% rule) will do incredible harm to their company in the long term.
That's how all boycotts and protests are. If users could enact the change themselves they wouldn't need to protest or leave to enact change. That said we depend on lots of corporations outside of...
That's how all boycotts and protests are. If users could enact the change themselves they wouldn't need to protest or leave to enact change. That said we depend on lots of corporations outside of our control. I have a feeling most people here rely on ISPs that have and could make policies that interfere with internet access.
Poking my head back into a few of the subreddits that I used to enjoy before the lockout was all that I needed to delete my account without any regrets. Seeing so much vitriol being spouted at...
Poking my head back into a few of the subreddits that I used to enjoy before the lockout was all that I needed to delete my account without any regrets. Seeing so much vitriol being spouted at moderators who chose to take their subs private would be enough for me to resign if I were a moderator. If reddit wants to continue with new moderation in those subs, more power to them, I'll just quietly find somewhere else to go that provides what I'm looking for.
I don't think anyone can conclude that the protest is over or has failed when this many subreddits are still private or restricting submissions, yet I've read many users saying exactly that. Let's follow the data and see what happens because we won't know the full impact of the protest in the short-term.
I don't know what the full scale impact will be, but personally I've realized it's time I began contributing at tilde more seriously. I already don't trust corporate governance, and now it's clear that Reddit's is rotten.
I have always been a lurker/infrequent poster on most forums dating all the way back to old BBS posts, but as the years have gone on I have increasingly lurked more and posted less, Reddit being no exception. In my near daily (lurking) use of Reddit, it is (in my estimation) been rotten for a while. But like any large entity, it takes a while for the affects of that rottenness to become apparent to more observers. Bots, low effort posts, reposts, the evolution of meta posting, increasing segregation and division. And yet I continued to lurk. Because what would my one voice do against that tide.
"I've realized it's time I began contributing at tilde..." really resonated with me. I am very new to tildes but the feel of this place is like a breath of fresh air in the world of an increasingly corporate internet and reminds me of an earlier time. Old lurking habits may die hard and while Reddit maybe rotten, I am going to contribute my voice to tildes.
Agreed. This whole situation has honestly been a big positive for me. Discovering Tildes has led to me contributing a lot more, and having some actual conversations.
I really resonate with this. I only rarely posted/commented when I first joined reddit 12 years ago, and as time went on I stopped completely. I still lurked daily, but saw the quality of content deteriorate to the point where most of what I was seeing was bots/ads/spam. Even with the poor content I still lurked, mostly because Apollo was so well designed and fixed a lot of what was broken with the official app.
I recently joined tildes, and I am finding a desire to post/comment again which I haven't felt for a long time on reddit. It's like waking up from a bad dream and finding the internet of old again.
Based on the Reddit internal memo from spez that was revealed yesterday, its clear he's dismissive of the Reddit user community and surprisingly ignorant of just how much his site relies on unpaid labor and contributions by its users, especially a core group of power users who do most of the moderation, posting and commenting.
Reddit creates nothing, and contributes nothing - they're just a clearinghouse. The value is in their user base. Spez alienates them at his peril.
Remember when it was bought by Conde, we held our noses but kept on, then 10 percent was bought by tencent, keeping the nose closed, then the complete inability to browse reddit on mobile without crashing your device....like how does that even work? But we kept on because we had 3rd party apps like redreader which is getting an api pass since it is open source, ad free and 2000 employees can't figure out how to cater to those with a disability.
It's like someone stealing your lunch for so long you just get used to it.
Sorry, I'm just a bit of a pessimist and seeing ones stop being dark and some of the responses that support that or even never wanted them to go dark has me being pessimistic.
In the end, time will tell.
I've checked in on a few subs who decided to poll their users. And while, this makes sense in theory, it's very likely that those that want the sub to remain closed simply aren't browsing reddit at all.
I had the same reaction when I went back to my 2 favorite subs that had reopened, but just like everything else on reddit, the loudest individuals skew our perception of the overall user base.
I'm also pessimistic and think this will simply keep escalating. Sure, maybe enough people are happy with using eht website, but I wouldn't be surprised if old.reddit gets hit on the chopping block within the next 12 months at this rate.
And then even worse than that with extensions somehow. The Reddit Enhancement Suite is the literal lifeblood of reddit for me and provided features year ahead, or at least allowed me to work around features reddit (IMO) regressed on. If reddit breaks that I don't see any going back for me.
This is good news! I for one was very skeptical of a protest with a fixed two-day length (the result was obviously going to be what we saw, which was reddit saying they didn't care and they could outlast it easily). If these 6000 subs keep going, I guess there's a chance that something maybe comes from this.
The number has slowly ticked down while I've had the window open for about half an hour. Presumably as people come online, have their internal discussions, then flip the switch. We'll have a much better idea of the indefinite protesters in 24 hours once we're a little more removed from the initial 48-hour period.
There's also continuing talk for some subs that have reopened on what should be done going forward. Talk ranges from going dark one day a week (Tuesday has been mentioned a few times) to extending the blackout.
https://www.adweek.com/social-marketing/ripples-through-reddit-as-advertisers-weather-moderators-strike/
Advertisers are wary. The next couple weeks will make or break the revenue stream that is essential for both profitability and an IPO.
u/spez should be sweating out loud ... not hushing the mods.
I was just talking about that in another thread because my company advertises on reddit. Didn't have any ongoing campaigns, but we were planning to run ads over the summer and are now having a totally different discussion about reddit. I have to assume larger companies that make up a lot more of reddit's ad revenue are having similar discussions.
Thanks. I joined Tildes like 5 minutes ago and missed that highly-relevant discussion.
Well that's... convenient.
That article makes me think that subs staying closed, even if it's not all of them, could be effective. It sounds like part of the appeal of reddit to advertisers is targeted ads on relevant subreddits. Anything that splinters subreddits, either through users making new subreddits in response to a sub being closed, or reddit replacing mods and angering the subreddit could effectively hurt reddit's profitability. Interesting read.
Precisely. Reddit's only value is targeted ad spending. You disrupt that, advertisers will find another place to spend their $$$$$.
In a way, I'm relieved.
Lately the internet feels hostile. Misinformation was always rampant, but now it's industrialized and sharp. It doesn't even matter what the sources are or what the context is, because all you need to do is make a few people angry to make something go viral and make even more people angry. Then once you find your crowd and you know what works, you just keep doubling down.
Rage was found by bad actors to be the most profitable to exploit, and the easiest to abuse. When you're angry you don't care about the source or the context, you sort of let your guard down, and in doing so you're exposing yourself to predatory manipulation from your peers. Overtime, your common sense begins to shift to the point where it can radically different from other people's outside your bubble of hatred.
I remember Reddit before 2012. Before the front page was laced with trying to get me to resent someone or something. Although I never posted, I still felt at home. Fast forward to today, and even though I was active on Reddit, I never felt safe. I never felt like I understand the other person, because a lot of the time I wasn't even sure if it was a person. That, or if they're not just driving outrage to pass the time.
Having been on here for just a day or two I already feel at ease, and after experiencing this kind of web again I struggle to imagine going back. I genuinely believe that if things continue to get worse, these kinds of semi-public communities are the only place where you'll be able to reliably and verifiably speak to other "normal" people, meaning people that know how to engage with others with some semblance of maturity. I assume that Tildes isn't planning on keeping this semi-public state forever, and I trust that it will only be removed with a clear maintenance plan, but I have to admit there's something calming about being surrounded by comprehensive and high-quality discussion without scrolling past miles of inane comments trying to win likes or whatever.
Good riddance.
Of the politics and politics-adjacent subs I wonder how many 'right' leaning and 'left' leaning subs have gone dark, and is there a relationship with collectivist values & individualistic values?
Edit: I personally am too lazy to check.
Just had this exact conversation! My guess is that those of us more informed and opposed to quarterly vulture capitalism will leave, so I'd guess reddit would become more individualistic and right. I am definitely biased, though.
I can only imagine what that will do to the community. It was already unpleasant outside of reasonably moderated subs, so with both mods and the left leaving disproportionately, this could spur on a unrecoverable slide into being a hateful toxic shithole. Think Voat, just 10,000x bigger.
That's another solid argument for never going back, thank you. Sounds absolutely fucking awful.
Thats been my encounter on those supporting reddit - right leaning and a progressive.
In any event, that'll be a ton of potential advertising revenue down the drain.
I don't think we'll see the full impact for a little while though. See what the place looks like at months end.
It looks like subreddits will also start trying their own forms of protest. Some are just staying restricted for example. Some are asking their communities what should be done. It’s cool to see so many different approaches.
i don't think staying closed will do anything, honestly. there are just too many subreddits not participating. by staying closed all the subreddits are doing is limiting access to information and shooting their community on the foot, and a lot of people “protesting” are not even deleting their reddit account and moving to alternatives like tildes.
i guess a better way to do this is by not moderating and letting reddit just become a cesspool, but that gives the admins a reason to replace mods (“they’re inactive”). i don’t know, i think at this point there’s no real way reddit is going to back down even with indefinite shutdowns.
I privated a sub I made years ago and deleted my account. It was reopened with new mods. Not sure how it happens but sure they will just reopen the closed subs
I think some are missing this point. The subs will be reopened. The only problem will be if new moderators step up and how well those moderators can perform that job. Poor moderation will end up leading to a migration.... to equivalent subreddits more than anything. Moving people off of Reddit will require them to have a compelling reason to leave. Probably a combination of a good alternative plus an even worse scenario on Reddit than the present situation.
If mods remain active on the site and don't delete their accounts, then their subreddits won't be scooped up so easily. Not without the admins completely revamping the /r/redditrequest rules and processing requests manually. The only reasons the person you're responding to lost their sub are (presumably) because they deleted their account, they were the only mod of that subreddit, and the /r/redditrequest process handled it automatically based on that criteria. The bot doesn't work if the mods are still active on the site.
The subreddits don't have to be scooped up. We're already seen new subreddits getting created to take the place of some of the subs that plan to remain dark indefinitely. If subs continue to stay dark, I suspect more new subs will pop up to take their place.
Even then, we may still be watching the decline and fall of Reddit but it will take some time.
I don't really see it myself. The Internet was unmoderated for many years and went just fine. People just need to take things less seriously and use their own brains to filter content. Reddit would do just fine only removing illegal content and letting everything else be a fee for all. It might even make it grow
You're definitely on the wrong site if you disagree with moderation and think the internet is "fine" without it.
It's a wild opinion to have that makes me believe that they haven't seen what unmoderated large communities actually look like these days.
Between trolls, spam bots, and just downright unpleasant people; subreddits quickly go to shit when unmoderated.
If you don't tend a garden, it's soon infested with weeds and vermin.
It's a depressingly short trip from unmoderated "free speech" to racist hate speech and CP.
I don't disagree entirely I just prefer the old days of censoring ones self. I understand with so many people online that's not possible.
When was the internet unmoderated? Every community I've ever been a part of including those in the earlier days of the web was moderated much, much tighter than most public websites today.
It is hard to filter content 24/7. I personally don't believe that it's okay to subject your users to an unending stream of dubious articles and ads made to be predatory. I shouldn't have to dig through articles to find out if someone's post is blatant misinformation designed to make me angry; when moderators fail to make sure the things posted to their forums are coherent and factual or at the very least rational, then that community will radicalize and take a side in some way, eventually.
I was always astounded when blatant and unabashed astroturfing and clickbait were just sitting at the top of popular subreddits. Like, the moderators became less about maintaining the community, and more about enforcing the rules. I think that the difference between the two is vast.
Yahoo chats was unmoderated so were most irc rooms I agree moderation is required especially to remove illegal content. I just don't think the way it's done on reddit works. The Internet was a better place when barrier to entry was a keyboard and a mouse and setting up a 56k connection
I want to point out that while in theory this sounds nice, in practice at that point in history the internet was ridiculously expensive for the average family/person and unobtainable. Part of the reason why there was so much “less” moderation at that point was because there were magnitudes less people on the internet.
Per this website, there were 4 billion people on the internet in 2020, and only 400 million in 2000. (FWIW, 1997 was when I first got in home internet that could be used on a regular basis, and there were only 120 million people with access. I was quite lucky.)
The halcyon days you are reaching for is one where only the absolute wealthiest and most privileged had constant access to the internet, and even then there was constant moderation, it was just far less obvious to you.
The unmoderated internet was only good for a time before spammers realized they could make use of those unmoderated locations. Usenet became a complete mess filled with bits of content scattered through a pile of spam and junk. Reddit would end up much the same place. Good if you're looking to drive people off Reddit. Not good if you're looking for Reddit to continue having interesting content.
No, it would die just like truth soical as it fills with trolls and hate groups.
If you deleted your account, that meant the subreddit was unmoderated. That made it eligible to be claimed by any other user via /r/RedditRequest. It's a very common process. (I've done it a few times myself.)
Part of me is waiting for the shoe to drop where spez takes over the high subscriber subreddits and just replaces the mod team and reopens the subreddit if the protests go on too long. He'd cover it as "these protests are interfering with the users that don't want them to continue" despite polling previous showing very high for long term blackout
Good
Let it stay that way. Let them beg for users
Where reddit is different to other large social networks is that they rely on its users for content and the work of thousands of unpaid mods to help keep the site somewhere people want to be. Reddit for the most part don't do the moderating.
So yes, it is their company, they can do what the hell they like, but when they are looking to IPO in the coming months, it is a braindead move to piss off a large chunk of the most active mods/users who are the ones who make the site valuable.
There are obvious ways they could monetize that they have completely failed to entertain, rather they go down the shortsighted cost cutting route that will hurt them in the long run.
Well...yes, you're right. However, it feels like it's missing the point. Contractually, Reddit can do whatever they like, up to and including banning every moderator who participated in this and replacing them as soon as possible. Why haven't they? That would solve all these issues.
As a long-time critic of social media as we know it today, and all proprietary communication networks, this is the message that everyone needs to digest. If you don't own it, in a meaningful sense, then you cannot control what happens to it. The dumbing down of the average website, the loss of the games/computing -> technical skills pipeline through a ruthless sanding of rough edges has ensured that the web today is populated with users who refuse to challenge themselves to make the world a better place, because they've internalized the helplessness fostered by these poorly-moderated and perversely-motivated corporate forums. So they just throw a tantrum, because they don't know what else to do.
I really do worry that people have fewer options to learn how to misbehave. It's important to practice bucking authority, and it keeps getting harder to safely do so.
I agree with you.
They are well within their right. However, the counterpoint to this is that then the users are also within their right to delete their content, get angry and leave. This is what happened with Digg and numerous other social media in the past.
The "direct user" form of money making that Reddit (and Twitter with Blue) are attempting right now is, to be blunt, doomed to failure. API access will never make a substantial amount of revenue for a social media company, because the users aren't supposed to be the customers, they're the product. A thriving ecosystem of happy users is the best thing a social media company can have to ensure profitability through advertising and other monetization means. So yes, they absolutely can go down this road, but the amount of goodwill and social capital it will burn from the users who bring the most content to their website (via the 1% rule) will do incredible harm to their company in the long term.
That's how all boycotts and protests are. If users could enact the change themselves they wouldn't need to protest or leave to enact change. That said we depend on lots of corporations outside of our control. I have a feeling most people here rely on ISPs that have and could make policies that interfere with internet access.
Poking my head back into a few of the subreddits that I used to enjoy before the lockout was all that I needed to delete my account without any regrets. Seeing so much vitriol being spouted at moderators who chose to take their subs private would be enough for me to resign if I were a moderator. If reddit wants to continue with new moderation in those subs, more power to them, I'll just quietly find somewhere else to go that provides what I'm looking for.