The schadenfreude is strong with this one. I am so tired of them sidelining the content I pay them for (music streaming) and using dark patterns to try and force me to listen to podcasts on their...
The schadenfreude is strong with this one. I am so tired of them sidelining the content I pay them for (music streaming) and using dark patterns to try and force me to listen to podcasts on their app. I don't want it, I will never want it, leave me the hell alone and let me hide it from the UI.
Very much agreed. I don’t mind a podcast here or there, but that’s not what I go to Spotify for. I happily pay for Spotify premium, and have for years, because I love the easy access to commercial...
Very much agreed. I don’t mind a podcast here or there, but that’s not what I go to Spotify for. I happily pay for Spotify premium, and have for years, because I love the easy access to commercial free music and being able to download playlists. I’ve never gone to Spotify for the podcast, and it really annoys me when they pop them in my face. I already pay for your service, stop aggressively marketing it to me.
Where I really think they screwed up is with signing Joe Rogan for an obscene amount of money. And I say this as someone who is a longtime fan of MMA, and recognizes what Joe Rogan has contributed to the sport. He went completely off the rails and is now indefensible. What are used to be a fun little podcast with silly conspiracy theories like does Bigfoot exist has become something much more sinister, and Spotify gave that a bigger platform and a butt load of money. If there was an alternative, I would happily subscribe to it instead of supporting what they’ve done there.
Edit: I got some great suggestions for alternative music services in the comments here. I’ll be sure to check them all out, especially since most have a free trial. One drawback of living in Canada is that often these services don’t get here until years later, if at all. Or the library is much more limited than it is in the US. But a few years have passed since I last checked so it’s definitely worth taking another look.
I've enjoyed Tidal for a good while now. They don't force videos on you in curated playlists and the like, either - though there are fewer of those in general.
I've enjoyed Tidal for a good while now. They don't force videos on you in curated playlists and the like, either - though there are fewer of those in general.
Honestly Spotify's algorithms are trash, or were for the last year that I was using them. Moved onto a different service and I'm much, much happier. Better recommendations, better playlist...
Honestly Spotify's algorithms are trash, or were for the last year that I was using them.
Moved onto a different service and I'm much, much happier. Better recommendations, better playlist building, better service.
All the Rogan bullshit is just the cherry on top, knowing that none of my money is going to them.
I've had the opposite experience with Spotify algorithms! It has introduced me to a lot of music I love. That being said, I also pump my play history into last.fm for another algorithm to feed me...
I've had the opposite experience with Spotify algorithms! It has introduced me to a lot of music I love.
That being said, I also pump my play history into last.fm for another algorithm to feed me recommendations.
I’ve definitely had some issues with Spotify’s recommendations, though it’s also led me to some stuff I love. I really like the enhanced playlists, but it often re-adds songs again after I’ve...
I’ve definitely had some issues with Spotify’s recommendations, though it’s also led me to some stuff I love. I really like the enhanced playlists, but it often re-adds songs again after I’ve removed them. And also adds way too much pop music, which I enjoy in small doses, but I am more of an industrial/metal fan.
Ugh. That sucks. Thankfully, I pretty much exclusively use Apple Music on my iPad and iPhone. Beyond that, I have Plex to stream my personal library of FLACs.
Ugh. That sucks. Thankfully, I pretty much exclusively use Apple Music on my iPad and iPhone. Beyond that, I have Plex to stream my personal library of FLACs.
I can also recommend Apple Music. My go to app is Albums. It focuses on listening to entire albums as individual pieces. It has changed the way I interact with music. I have also heard good things...
I can also recommend Apple Music. My go to app is Albums. It focuses on listening to entire albums as individual pieces. It has changed the way I interact with music.
Albums looks pretty cool! Though I already do listen to my music as albums and I’m not keen on yet another subscription. But I do like the idea of metrics and stats!
Albums looks pretty cool! Though I already do listen to my music as albums and I’m not keen on yet another subscription. But I do like the idea of metrics and stats!
I use YT Music, Spotify, and Apple Music. The reason I have YT Music is due to Youtube Premium I sometimes use YT Music to listen to unreleased music by an artists. I’m planning to drop Spotify...
I use YT Music, Spotify, and Apple Music. The reason I have YT Music is due to Youtube Premium I sometimes use YT Music to listen to unreleased music by an artists. I’m planning to drop Spotify soon I feel like when I listen to music in Spotify I’m inclined more to do playlist than listen to them by album. On the other hand, I feel like when I use Apple Music I get to listen to my fave or new artists by the album. Maybe it has something to do with the UI or that AM reminds me so much of iTunes when I was young. But I prefer the emphasis on album listening than to playlist, granted you can do either side on every platform. I guess my take away is that every music platforms focuses on varying listening habits.
Like YouTube Music? I still preferred it as Google Play Music, but it's grown on me. Being able to upload your own music to stream anywhere is super handy, especially for stuff that isn't strictly...
If there was an alternative, I would happily subscribe to it instead of supporting what they’ve done there.
Like YouTube Music?
I still preferred it as Google Play Music, but it's grown on me. Being able to upload your own music to stream anywhere is super handy, especially for stuff that isn't strictly music (like comedian stand up sets) that I want to listen to on a whim sometimes but will never be on a streaming service.
I tried Spotify for a year or so and kept getting the same few songs played over and over again so went back to YouTube Music. Ad-free YouTube is also a nice side effect.
If you're on desktop, you NEED YouTube Music Desktop App as the standard web interface is completely bollocks. It also enables scrobbling to last.fm which I find super useful.
The other protip for YouTube Music is to use a different account four Music than YouTube itself. Otherwise your Music recommendations get all screwed up if you accidentally click on a link that somehow features Ed Sheeran audio or something. It ends up like that Family Guy baby photos meme, just smashing your face with Ed Sheeran music for the rest of your existence no matter how little you want it.
I might understand it wrong but if you get Youtube premium won't you be forced to use the same account for both since you want the premium features on music as well as youtube?
I might understand it wrong but if you get Youtube premium won't you be forced to use the same account for both since you want the premium features on music as well as youtube?
You can have multiple channels under one account. That's how I avoid cross contamination between my main youtube watching channel and my YT Music listening one.
You can have multiple channels under one account. That's how I avoid cross contamination between my main youtube watching channel and my YT Music listening one.
I'm also in Canada and use YouTube music, I switched from Spotify a couple years ago for the same reasons you outlined. It's good! The web interface for PC can be a little clunky, but otherwise it...
I'm also in Canada and use YouTube music, I switched from Spotify a couple years ago for the same reasons you outlined. It's good! The web interface for PC can be a little clunky, but otherwise it does everything I need it to do - I saw another poster mention a desktop app with a better interface so I'm going to check that out!
I second this. No ads on Youtube, good music recommendations, AND their podcast attempt failed a while ago, so they probably won't try mixing podcasts into music in the near future.
I second this. No ads on Youtube, good music recommendations, AND their podcast attempt failed a while ago, so they probably won't try mixing podcasts into music in the near future.
I see a lot of alternatives mentioned already, but no one has said Deezer. I've been using it for more than a year now and it's pretty good. There is a "flow" feature which let's you choose a...
I see a lot of alternatives mentioned already, but no one has said Deezer. I've been using it for more than a year now and it's pretty good. There is a "flow" feature which let's you choose a general mood and it plays songs based on that and your listening habits and I've been using it extensively - sometimes it gets too "general", but skipping the songs you don't like "trains" the algorithm well enough imo
I use Spotify mostly on my phone and haven't seen a podcast recommendation for a long time. I just checked and it has two tabs now, one for music and one for podcasts. I do absolutely understand...
I use Spotify mostly on my phone and haven't seen a podcast recommendation for a long time. I just checked and it has two tabs now, one for music and one for podcasts.
I do absolutely understand the frustration. I was so tired of rogans face looking at me whenever I opened the app, that I sent them an angry email threatening to cancel the subscription if they don't remove it from my frontpage.
I can't exactly tell how long it has been that I don't see podcasts anymore, but I haven't felt the anger of seeing joes face for quite some time now.
Good to know. What streaming service pays the best? I know it used to be GPM but I just kind of assumed Google switched to YouTube music as an excuse to screw over musicians.
Good to know. What streaming service pays the best? I know it used to be GPM but I just kind of assumed Google switched to YouTube music as an excuse to screw over musicians.
Youtube, if someone with Youtube premium streams your tracks/videos.. Apple music is pretty good too. Im not so sure about the others because the streaming numbers on some platforms are so small...
Youtube, if someone with Youtube premium streams your tracks/videos.. Apple music is pretty good too. Im not so sure about the others because the streaming numbers on some platforms are so small for me.
Cool, good to know. Are you indie or with a record label? Does streaming end up being a decent source of income or is touring and selling merch still your best bet? And please tell me if you don't...
Cool, good to know.
Are you indie or with a record label?
Does streaming end up being a decent source of income or is touring and selling merch still your best bet?
And please tell me if you don't want to share. I'm legitimately interested.
I never liked the idea of platform exclusive podcasts like what Spotify started to do. When I try to explain why, I struggled because it's the same model as video games, tv shows, and movies......
I never liked the idea of platform exclusive podcasts like what Spotify started to do. When I try to explain why, I struggled because it's the same model as video games, tv shows, and movies... most of them can only be accessed on one or two platforms.
Then I realized that the podcast model of open distribution to a client of your choice is a better distribution model for us the listeners. I'm glad the Spotify approach is struggling here. Hopefully it will stop the process of creating walled gardens for podcasts.
I remember loading podcasts in to my mp3 player in like 2005. That’s what’s frustrating about Spotify to me, we were doing just fine without a middleman for decades.
I remember loading podcasts in to my mp3 player in like 2005. That’s what’s frustrating about Spotify to me, we were doing just fine without a middleman for decades.
It is the same model but it's a bad distribution model for all these other forms of media too, at least as far as the consumer is concerned. It's only a good model for the distributor (e.g....
I struggled because it's the same model as video games, tv shows, and movies... most of them can only be accessed on one or two platforms.
It is the same model but it's a bad distribution model for all these other forms of media too, at least as far as the consumer is concerned. It's only a good model for the distributor (e.g. Spofity/Netflix/Valve/whoever)
The crazy part is that from the get-go, the distribution model was inherently open and independent. That's literally what made podcasts what they are...they're audio files served via RSS, which is...
The crazy part is that from the get-go, the distribution model was inherently open and independent. That's literally what made podcasts what they are...they're audio files served via RSS, which is still extremely effective even in 2023. It's always felt wrong to me when a show distributed outside of that original model was called a "podcast"...the traditional "radio show" makes more sense to my ears. Corporate backed and centrally distributed "podcasts" always struck me as a contradiction.
The majority of podcasts are just audio files distributed on RSS feeds that any podcast player can support. Any attempt to move towards a company controlling this ecosystem is something I won't...
Don't all platforms do that to a certain extent?
The majority of podcasts are just audio files distributed on RSS feeds that any podcast player can support. Any attempt to move towards a company controlling this ecosystem is something I won't ever support.
Who is all? I only knew of Spotify, and you've mentioned Audible, but besides that: German radio/tv station (WDR) has podcasts that are available for anyone to download. Don't need to go to their...
all platforms
Who is all? I only knew of Spotify, and you've mentioned Audible, but besides that:
German radio/tv station (WDR) has podcasts that are available for anyone to download. Don't need to go to their site/platform.
Nerdland (Flemish) is available anywhere as well. Didn't use to have ads, though they just promote their own live shows and books and stuff, but now has a sponsor at the very end of the episode
Flanders University podcast is ad-free and available anywhere as well
Volksjury, together with the above the top few podcasts of Belgium afaik, uses a sponsor model also, but again no lock-in
Tweakers (Dutch) is available anywhere, though they're owned by a big publisher who could easily have set up their own podcast platform, it's just not how most people consume podcasts
MNOT is now contracted (owned?) by a Danish podcast firm, previously Day&Night Media (Dutch firm iirc), but regardless, they're available anywhere and have always been. You just get ads if you aren't a "friend of the show" (you buy friends with money now), and if you are, it's a private RSS feed. No vendor lock-in.
Dutch radio station BNR had their own website where you could listen live or replay since forever, but moved to publishing many (most?) shows also as a podcast. No ads, available anywhere
Darknet Diaries (USA?) has a shitton of ads but, again, available anywhere
But maybe the joke's on me and I'm missing hidden gems
Anywag this is how it goes in the universe. Those who do it for fun and no big incentive to themselves are less motivated to promote their work via commercial avenues, and may not have money for doing interesting things or spending tons of time, and thus risk being outcompeted by those that have a self-replenishing budget for all of the above. This may or may not, in turn, be outcompeted by more lucrative exclusivity contracts, depending on whether they manage to portray a public image that it's normal to have to have some specific DRM player to be able to listen to a specific set of podcasts and people who are new to the concept (introduced via their music player (Spotify) or audiobook player (Audible)) just don't know any better.
Yes, that's why I don't quite feel like my attitude towards Spotify is warranted. There might be a few other exclusives out there, but I think the open model is better for listeners.
Yes, that's why I don't quite feel like my attitude towards Spotify is warranted. There might be a few other exclusives out there, but I think the open model is better for listeners.
It's a better distribution model for any type of media I feel. That's why it's so nice to be a pc gamer right now because you can play almost any game from any company (except for Nintendo) and...
It's a better distribution model for any type of media I feel.
That's why it's so nice to be a pc gamer right now because you can play almost any game from any company (except for Nintendo) and from any era.
That's also why Spotify works well because you can access any music from their app (almost) and you don't have to look through several apps to find what you want.
In a bit of neat math, Spotify is laying off exactly one employee from their podcast division for each million dollars they're paying Joe Rogan to distribute vaccine disinformation. (200)
In a bit of neat math, Spotify is laying off exactly one employee from their podcast division for each million dollars they're paying Joe Rogan to distribute vaccine disinformation. (200)
For whatever reason I fell off the podcast wagon way back in 2012. I assumed that podcasts would just die. I stopped paying attention. I was surprised to learn around 2017 or so that that first...
For whatever reason I fell off the podcast wagon way back in 2012. I assumed that podcasts would just die. I stopped paying attention. I was surprised to learn around 2017 or so that that first "wave" was only the beginning and that podcasts were booming. Everyone and their moms had podcasts.
And along with the glut of podcasts, the drama and the in-jokes. Want to listen to an interesting podcast about a specific topic? Good luck making it through the personal lives of the hosts. Trying to jump into the middle of a DECADE-running podcast? Whoops, the jokes don't make any sense without literally hundreds of episodes of context.
It all seems so exhausting.
I listened to a LOT of podcasts in those early days. I never thought they would die, it doesn't surprise me that they've become more popular - surprised you say you expected them to die out....
I listened to a LOT of podcasts in those early days. I never thought they would die, it doesn't surprise me that they've become more popular - surprised you say you expected them to die out. They've been consistently on the rise.
I don't listen to them much now just bc of circumstances (I used to have a job where I could listen to them all day long without really messing up my focus, not anymore). There is definitely an oversaturation now and I feel you on inside jokes etc. There are a couple podcasts I still listen to that I've listened to since the start (MBMBAM being one that is 13 years old now). I feel like people love the inside jokes/running gags/personal life stuff etc and it contributes to the "intimate" feeling a lot of podcasts play on.
Oh yeah, I totally agree twice. 1. I'm a dingus who thought they'd die, that's on me. 2. The "intimate" feeling is certainly a draw. Funny you should mention MBMBAM; that's one of the podcasts I...
Oh yeah, I totally agree twice. 1. I'm a dingus who thought they'd die, that's on me. 2. The "intimate" feeling is certainly a draw. Funny you should mention MBMBAM; that's one of the podcasts I tried to catch up on but was left floundering.
I don't think you really need to catch up on much to listen to MBMBAM but you do need to listen to a few episodes to get the segments they do, the dynamic between them etc. It's also one of those...
I don't think you really need to catch up on much to listen to MBMBAM but you do need to listen to a few episodes to get the segments they do, the dynamic between them etc.
It's also one of those where I'd say... go listen to the back catalog bc it's worth it. And unlike podcasts focusing on current events and such it's not like it really matters if you're listening to older episodes, they're rarely "topical" anyway.
I've had to cull a lot of mine. I really meant to catch up, but I can't realistically get through thousands of hours of content, and it was causing me a lot of stress to see all those unread...
I've had to cull a lot of mine. I really meant to catch up, but I can't realistically get through thousands of hours of content, and it was causing me a lot of stress to see all those unread episodes.
The only podcasts I listen to now are ones that are specifically targeted with an eventual end date (Persona 5 playthrough, Zelda lore), and history podcasts. And even those, I had to cut some good ones out. Sorry History of Egypt, I just can't listen to 300 episodes.
If you enjoy it, what's the issue with a practically infinite supply of it? Do you primarily listen to storytelling podcasts where you'd want closure before moving on? I wish any of my podcasts...
I can't realistically get through thousands of hours of content
If you enjoy it, what's the issue with a practically infinite supply of it? Do you primarily listen to storytelling podcasts where you'd want closure before moving on?
I wish any of my podcasts (mainly science, news, or true crime) had thousands of hours of published material rather than waiting on average a week for on average 45 minutes of content. That sounds amazing ._.
Basically. So the problem is what I'm getting to the Fourth Crusade in Byzantine history, the fall of Kassite Babylon in Oldest Stories, the Greco Bactrians in Hellenistic, and the end of the...
Basically. So the problem is what I'm getting to the Fourth Crusade in Byzantine history, the fall of Kassite Babylon in Oldest Stories, the Greco Bactrians in Hellenistic, and the end of the Achaemenids in Persia. I'd like to finish something.
Wikipedia can only give you so much context. You also lose any sense of narrative, interviews with historians in the field, the reasoning of experts, etc. You also need to keep track of every link...
Wikipedia can only give you so much context. You also lose any sense of narrative, interviews with historians in the field, the reasoning of experts, etc.
You also need to keep track of every link you see, since explanations for different events will have their own page, which in turn have their own pages, and a curator is really useful.
In addition, you need to already know what you're looking for. I wouldn't have know about the neo Sumerian attributes of the Sealand Dynasty of Mesopotamia if not for the Oldest Stories podcast. There's definitely an article about it, but it's just something that wouldn't have come up unless I was reading about the peripheries of Babylonian history
For Egypt specifically, you need a lot of episodes because Egypt has a very long history, which continues to this day. I've had to cull it just because I don't care about Egypt enough to keep committing so much of my time. But I'm still happily subscribed to the History of Byzantium, History of Persia, Oldest Stories and the Hellenistic Age podcasts. All of those time periods fascinate me, and I want someone to build a narrative around them so that I can understand the events they're involved in.
I have a hardcore schedule of 5 weekly podcasts that I will not miss but, to me, the interesting thing is that I'm not sure how the market grows from there. Like, I love podcasts. They're...
I have a hardcore schedule of 5 weekly podcasts that I will not miss but, to me, the interesting thing is that I'm not sure how the market grows from there. Like, I love podcasts. They're fantastic for my brain while I do busy work around the house. But I, someone who should be a huge target for marketing, will never, ever click on any new podcast ads because I don't WANT more for the exact reasons you mention. I like living in my little sphere.
I don't know. Maybe that's an issue across the board with media now and not podcast specific. I just have to imagine the podcast bubble bursts soon.
Well, I do. There's more listening time than there is good podcast material available that I've found so far. Which is not to say that I'm a fan of ads and I may not follow for that reason (or...
I'm not sure how the market grows from there [...] But I, someone who should be a huge target for marketing, will never, ever click on any new podcast ads because I don't WANT more
Well, I do. There's more listening time than there is good podcast material available that I've found so far.
Which is not to say that I'm a fan of ads and I may not follow for that reason (or listen to the ad to begin with), but that's a different story.
Also, most people just don't listen to any at all. That, and stealing listeners from other podcasts by having better or refreshing content, are the primary growth opportunities I'd expect
Not to mention that, at least for me, there are different "tiers" of podcasts. Some I will dedicate 95% of my attention to while doing something super menial or even just lying in bed. Others, I...
Not to mention that, at least for me, there are different "tiers" of podcasts. Some I will dedicate 95% of my attention to while doing something super menial or even just lying in bed. Others, I will put on so that something is in the background and maybe just catch half of it, if that.
I go through at least 20+ hours of podcasts every week, many of them completely new; but since I don't really pay attention to most of it, I am not overly picky about the quality, as long as it's even remotely interesting or funny.
I prefer podcasts endorsements / shoutouts within a podcast I actually like, because the quality / production value will most likely match that of the endorsing podcast, so I think that's cool.
I really like Off Menu, TaskMaster the Podcast and No Such Thing As A Fish None* of them have a "required listening" sort of deal, it's easy enough to jump into any episode and listen to it and be...
I really like Off Menu, TaskMaster the Podcast and No Such Thing As A Fish
None* of them have a "required listening" sort of deal, it's easy enough to jump into any episode and listen to it and be entertained
For Taskmaster there's an episode for each episode of the TV show, and if you don't watch the TV show nothing will make sense
I was with you when you were saying that a lot of them have a lot of personal blah blah to listen through to get to the content, but having to listen to a previous episode (let alone "hundreds of...
Trying to jump into the middle of a DECADE-running podcast? Whoops, the jokes don't make any sense without literally hundreds of episodes of context.
I was with you when you were saying that a lot of them have a lot of personal blah blah to listen through to get to the content, but having to listen to a previous episode (let alone "hundreds of hours' worth") to get a joke has never once happened to me.
Granted, I'm not as new to the space (got into it again in 2020), but I just can't think of any inside joke in anything I listen to. Most general cross-referencing is accompanied by a 1-2 sentence recap of the topic I think.
Just guessing here, maybe this is a culture thing? I noticed I can't stand most English-spoken podcasts because the hosts feel like they're amazing comedians and their audience would surely rather hear another butt joke (that's hardly funny, but the hosts can barely breathe), or personal funny "what happened to me the other day" story, than content reflecting the title of the podcast or episode. There's some exceptions like Exocast (discussing papers and interviewing people on the topic of exoplanets), or A Problem Squared which is made by people that genuinely do comedic stage performances for a living, but for the average podcast made by an average Joe, maybe it's a cultural thing? You could try a podcast from a second language that you speak
I'd be curious if any other germanic language speakers (Dutch, German, Swedish, etc.) experienced this similarly, since that's where I'm from
I went through the same thought process. I tried out some podcasts years ago, and was unimpressed. I figured it’s not for me and didn’t look back or pay attention to them. They’ve taken off ever...
I went through the same thought process. I tried out some podcasts years ago, and was unimpressed. I figured it’s not for me and didn’t look back or pay attention to them. They’ve taken off ever since.
Even today, my family will sometimes link me to an interesting podcast they’d listened to, and more often than not it’s unabridged, unedited content. It’s sometimes an hour of listening for 10 minutes of information.
Particularly for science/political oriented podcasts, the long meandering conversational style seems perfectly suited for presenting misinformation or inaccurate information and leading you to believe it. Probably one reason Joe Rogan’s podcast is so successful.
In the past week, Joe Rogan — the man responsible for delivering an outsize portion of Spotify’s podcast ad revenue — invited an anti-vaxxer presidential candidate on his show. The same day, a $20 million podcast deal with a certain royal couple fell apart, which was followed by a top executive calling the duo a pair of “fucking grifters” on his own podcast. And that all follows two rounds of layoffs in 2023 alone, the latter of which primarily focused on Spotify’s podcast division.
Spotify knows something is wrong with its podcast strategy — and these past few weeks have proved it. The company’s missteps reveal how fundamentally different the formula of success is in podcasts from film, video games, books, and even music. Franchises, IP, and name recognition can be enough to deliver a hit across many different mediums. But in the world of podcasts, a series from an acclaimed filmmaker, best-selling author, or even a former president can barely register on the charts. And after years of chasing this hit-making strategy, it all seems to be falling apart.
Rogan is the reason I left Spotify and went to Tidal. I don't want to support his shit, I just want to listen to music. Being a music host is rarely met with controversy, only hitting issues when...
Rogan is the reason I left Spotify and went to Tidal. I don't want to support his shit, I just want to listen to music. Being a music host is rarely met with controversy, only hitting issues when they try to push content due to selling promotions.
Being a podcast host though is very different. Music can have inflammatory lyrics but usually people care more about avoiding bad artists than they do bad songs. Podcasts have people avoiding both. It's even worse as Spotify pushes inflammatory content like Rogan on everyone. TV got away with having Fox next to NBC mostly because TV didn't promote any channels beyond the unavoidable bundling. Spotify makes sure you never forget what they are promoting.
I switched to Tidal in the beginning of the year. It has its faults (trust me, there are many), but it isn't trying to constantly shove something I don't want. It costs the same as Spotify but...
I switched to Tidal in the beginning of the year. It has its faults (trust me, there are many), but it isn't trying to constantly shove something I don't want. It costs the same as Spotify but provides HiFi audio (I don't have good hardware to take advantage of this sadly, but at least they aren't trying to charge extra for it) and they pay artists more per stream.
If I'm paying for something, I should be able to control the app's experience and not vice versa.
I have been considering switching to Tidal as well. If you don't mind, could you share some of it's faults and your experience migrating to Tidal? Was it easy to move your playlists? Does it work...
I have been considering switching to Tidal as well.
If you don't mind, could you share some of it's faults and your experience migrating to Tidal? Was it easy to move your playlists? Does it work well with Android Auto?
I have the following issues with Tidal: Transferring your library from Spotify to Tidal requires effort. Tidal promotes TuneMyMusic for this, but it has a limit of 500 songs for free users. I...
I have the following issues with Tidal:
Transferring your library from Spotify to Tidal requires effort. Tidal promotes TuneMyMusic for this, but it has a limit of 500 songs for free users. I personally did not move my library and started fresh.
Tidal may not always have the songs/albums you want. As an example, they don't have the album "Funky Stuff" by "Jiro Inagaki & Soul Media".
Spotify Connect works with your phone, laptop, game console, TV, etc. I can control music playing on one device with any other device. Tidal Connect only works with supported devices.
Some might view this as a pro rather than a con, as you can technically have multiple streams playing on multiple devices while logged into the same account, allowing you to share a subscription with friends/family.
No yearly rewind. If we've learned anything from the blue bubble debacle, it's that FOMO is real.
Spotify's user-generated public playlists are what I consider its greatest strength. Tidal doesn't have the user base, and so it lacks that goldmine. You're stuck with having to "steal" those playlists and copy them over with tools like TuneMyMusic.
I've been on Google Music (well, YouTube Music now) since it launched. I've considered swapping services, but never getting ads on YouTube is a benefit it turns out I make massive use of. How's...
I've been on Google Music (well, YouTube Music now) since it launched. I've considered swapping services, but never getting ads on YouTube is a benefit it turns out I make massive use of.
For me, Tidal's library still falls short compared to Spotify. Certain Japanese city pop songs I'm into aren't available. Nothing will ever beat YouTube Music's catalog, due to it being YouTube.
For me, Tidal's library still falls short compared to Spotify. Certain Japanese city pop songs I'm into aren't available.
Nothing will ever beat YouTube Music's catalog, due to it being YouTube.
Japanese city pop (and some very obscure dubstep) is the exact reason I switched from Tidal to YT Music, so much music that has been uploaded on YouTube that will never be officially added, and...
Japanese city pop (and some very obscure dubstep) is the exact reason I switched from Tidal to YT Music, so much music that has been uploaded on YouTube that will never be officially added, and the ability to upload music yourself is also a major benefit there.
Lately I've been thinking about going back to just having local-first music, but YTM has filled my need for the most part.
I do love that they pay the artists more, but I’m curious about what issues you run into. I’m definitely going to check out a few alternative services to Spotify, which I mostly use it to download...
I do love that they pay the artists more, but I’m curious about what issues you run into. I’m definitely going to check out a few alternative services to Spotify, which I mostly use it to download playlist for running and driving. Spotify also has some interface issues with CarPlay. But I’m not sure if that’s a Spotify issue or a CarPlay issue.
Tidal is also very underrated. It's site / UI are very fast-loading and efficient, and the app is the same way. It feels snappy and enjoyable to use as a streaming service. I used it for a long...
Tidal is also very underrated. It's site / UI are very fast-loading and efficient, and the app is the same way. It feels snappy and enjoyable to use as a streaming service. I used it for a long time. Only reason I don't now is because I already get YT premium so I just use YTM when I need a streaming service. That said, I don't stream often. I prefer to have my own mp3 collection and play it instead when I can.
If I were to switch back to any dedicated music streaming service though, it would be Tidal- I don't feel any of the competition is remotely close.
I purposely avoid Spotify for multiple reasons. Trying to add exclusivity / essentially DRM to podcasts and make it their own thing vs. just a common thing podcasters offer everywhere, paying Joe Rogan, etc.
Podcasts like Heavyweight, that went Spotify exclusive a while ago, are now even publishing previous seasons on the old RSS feeds to promote upcoming releases. As someone who resonates with the...
Keeping certain podcasts exclusive to Spotify meant a drop in audience.
Podcasts like Heavyweight, that went Spotify exclusive a while ago, are now even publishing previous seasons on the old RSS feeds to promote upcoming releases.
As someone who resonates with the simplicity, flexibility and openess that has made the podcasting ecosystem so creative and successful I struggle to see the down side in the struggling of Spotify's podcasting division.
When Gimlet went to Spotify, the podcasts they forced to go Spotify only just disappeared from my headspace, it's not like I don't have enough podcasts to listen to (plus my commute had just...
When Gimlet went to Spotify, the podcasts they forced to go Spotify only just disappeared from my headspace, it's not like I don't have enough podcasts to listen to (plus my commute had just disappeared due to covid, so that's less podcast time). Them losing all their famous personalities was just the last nail on the coffin.
Honestly I want to see their entire approach to podcasts to fail until they finally get that dangerous hack Rogan off of there. They're giving a guy with multiple TBI's a platform to tell people...
Honestly I want to see their entire approach to podcasts to fail until they finally get that dangerous hack Rogan off of there. They're giving a guy with multiple TBI's a platform to tell people whats fact or not. Stick with music spotify, instead of misinformation.
Throw him and Bill Simmons out. They're both to blame for what's transpiring. I've had my fucking fill of this obnoxious bostonian and his bad jokes. He was better at ESPN because they had him on...
Throw him and Bill Simmons out. They're both to blame for what's transpiring.
I've had my fucking fill of this obnoxious bostonian and his bad jokes. He was better at ESPN because they had him on a leash.
Spotify was my one stop shop for music and podcasts until they merged the 2 interfaces. I will never understand why you would ever put these 2 drastically different forms of media, with totally...
Spotify was my one stop shop for music and podcasts until they merged the 2 interfaces. I will never understand why you would ever put these 2 drastically different forms of media, with totally unique filters, sorting, and management, into a single giant playlist when there were 2 perfectly fine interfaces before. Who pulls out their phone and wants to browse through Podcasts and Music simultaneously? Does anyone really mix multiple long-form audio narratives with a couple tracks off an artist’s new hit album?
I just felt like I was losing my mind when they trashed the interface, mixed all their media together, and I immediately had to jump to PocketCasts just to have a decent podcast management interface. A monumental step backwards, which was apparently an omen of their total lack of understand of the Podcast audience and market.
I have had PocketCasts for over a decade and never felt any reason to listen to podcasts anywhere else. It did me right when I was a heavy listener in the early to mid2010s and still does me right...
I have had PocketCasts for over a decade and never felt any reason to listen to podcasts anywhere else. It did me right when I was a heavy listener in the early to mid2010s and still does me right now.
I've dumped several podcasts the moment I heard they were moving to Spotify, and a few have gone down in flames since the transition. No tears shed from me.
I've dumped several podcasts the moment I heard they were moving to Spotify, and a few have gone down in flames since the transition. No tears shed from me.
I miss the days of getting my podcasts from RSS. I used to use BeyondPod to pull them and would sync to my phone and with a scheduled task, my NAS so I could listen to them in Plex. The...
I miss the days of getting my podcasts from RSS. I used to use BeyondPod to pull them and would sync to my phone and with a scheduled task, my NAS so I could listen to them in Plex. The centralization to Spotify is once again another product of the enshittification cycle. I don't want to use a dawdling music streaming that admittingly, did introduce me to some new artists if its going to shove the Russian Ark episode of Heavyweight down my fucking throat EVERY THREE FUCKING MINUTES!
And as such, I have completely given up on podcasts altogether. If I can't get them the way I want, then I won't play the game. And it seems to have worked out, because its a crowded space and the ones I liked, like Revolutions or TWIT or even Last Podcast on the Left no longer hit the same way. It's a crowded space and its careening towards a crash.
Also, Spotify gave Joe Rogan a platform, and is letting the worst impulses of Bill Simmons ruin everything given how he's the "podfather" there and has his hands in the busting of the Gimlet union. Spotify should make a separate app for podcasting, but they won't. This is the only way they are getting any engagement. They're fucked.
Music streaming is increasingly played out for me, too. Maybe i'll find an artist I like, and I go straight to Bandcamp to buy the FLACs, because I get to have the final say on how I listen to it.
I've been listening to podcasts exclusively through PocketCasts for years now: https://pocketcasts.com/ It's as close to RSS as I can get. There're a couple of Patreons I subscribe to (Blank Check...
I've been listening to podcasts exclusively through PocketCasts for years now: https://pocketcasts.com/
It's as close to RSS as I can get. There're a couple of Patreons I subscribe to (Blank Check and QAA) that have a feed you can load up to it, which works really well.
That was one of the recommendation when I posted this (https://tildes.net/~tech/x21/recommend_me_a_podcast_app_for_android) thread a while ago. I enjoyed it but ended up settling with AntennaPod...
That was one of the recommendation when I posted this (https://tildes.net/~tech/x21/recommend_me_a_podcast_app_for_android) thread a while ago. I enjoyed it but ended up settling with AntennaPod which is also very RSS remincent and can still add postcasts via RSS if you have the links.
As it honestly deserves to. It was home to a platform which had no restrictions for harmful misinformation and shoved it down people's throats no matter what. I can see some benefits of Spotify...
As it honestly deserves to. It was home to a platform which had no restrictions for harmful misinformation and shoved it down people's throats no matter what. I can see some benefits of Spotify like some songs being released there, but downloading outside of a commercial app has its perks too, this little fiasco being a good example
I mean you're being kind of a jerk about it but in general, sure, you're right about some of that. Many of us are capable of weighing the pros/cons and deciding to tolerate the bad parts in order...
I mean you're being kind of a jerk about it but in general, sure, you're right about some of that. Many of us are capable of weighing the pros/cons and deciding to tolerate the bad parts in order to benefit from the good parts. Spotify's algorithmic recommendations, huge library, and ease of multi-device streaming are strong enough incentives to keep me on the platform. But I'm not going to "quit my bitching" about the aspects of the platform I dislike.
You tried a couple of podcasts, stopped listening, and you're happy that Spotify doesn't try to get you to listen again. Cool. That's about the bare minimum they could possibly do for usability. My complaint is that the very top of my home screen on Spotify is "Episodes for you" full of podcasts that I have never listened to and have no interest in listening to. I don't want to listen to podcasts or audiobooks on Spotify. I don't want their marketing popups trying to convince me to listen to them. I don't want the "Podcasts & Shows" tab in front of the "Albums" and "Artists" tab. I want to entirely hide this content or at the very least put it under/after music.
It isn't about Joe Rogan or whatever, I could not care less about that dude. I listen to podcasts/audiobooks on different apps and will not be switching to theirs. Spotify's abuse of my existing relationship with them to nag me, constantly, to use their platform for these things not only annoys me, but it tarnishes my opinion of their product and company as a whole.
Instead of loving them for the things they do well, I begrudgingly tolerate them because I'm captive by those things. It's a terrible way to treat your users when all you have to do is give me a checkbox to say "never display or recommend podcasts". The only reason this very basic, obvious feature is absent is because they want to nag me. Some mind-numbingly inhuman calculation of profits has convinced them to diminish the user experience and relationship because it will eek out $x more in profit, and I hate it.
In other words, the enshittification of all platforms continues.
I'm mostly very happy with it. It has far more of my music than the alternatives even though I think the others have better UI. I just wouldn't be listening to new music ever if I had to find it...
I'm mostly very happy with it. It has far more of my music than the alternatives even though I think the others have better UI. I just wouldn't be listening to new music ever if I had to find it and individually download new music every time. And most of the music I listen to isn't gonna be the top-seeded torrent, and may not even have a torrent to begin with.
Podcast shows benefit from the openness and opaque nature of existing podcast distribution platforms. Advertisers get subscriber numbers and weekly downloads, maybe download analytics (regions,...
Podcast shows benefit from the openness and opaque nature of existing podcast distribution platforms. Advertisers get subscriber numbers and weekly downloads, maybe download analytics (regions, ages, etc) and that's it. They don't learn if a listener decided to skip that particular episode, if they skipped through the ad, etc. The SECOND podcasts sign to a platform like spotify, they lose the safety of that unknown. Suddenly advertisers are on their ass about engagement and skipping ads and all the bullshit that comes along with a platform that can track every single action a user takes and report back to the advertisers. Users lose out too, getting a worse experience as time goes on, imagine in the future the app forcefully slowing down an adread to 1x speed and locking out skipping ahead, or real-time injecting their own ads into designated breaks. I wouldn't use spotify as a podcast platform ever, I use one where I am in control.
That article is all over the place. It's one thing to dislike Spotify moving into podcasts and signing exclusivity deals. It's another thing to disagree ideologically with the podcasts that...
That article is all over the place. It's one thing to dislike Spotify moving into podcasts and signing exclusivity deals. It's another thing to disagree ideologically with the podcasts that Spotify hosts. We conflate the two at our peril as a society.
It's been really hard for me to find a good streaming service lately. I feel like they've all gone downhill in some way or another. I've tried Spotify, YouTube Music, Qobuz, Amazon Music, Tidal,...
It's been really hard for me to find a good streaming service lately. I feel like they've all gone downhill in some way or another. I've tried Spotify, YouTube Music, Qobuz, Amazon Music, Tidal, and Deezer. They all have their pros and cons.
As an audiophile, YouTube Music is just out of contention for sound quality alone. Spotify is "good enough" but not amazing. Tidal was pretty good when I tried them, but I didn't like their Android Auto app very much (which I use a lot), they removed last.fm scrobbling support, and I thought Spotify's playlists and discovery were better. Amazon Music was just awful. I really loved Qobuz but it was lacking too many artists and albums for me to seriously use it full time. So many artists just didn't show up when I went to search them.
I'm currently on Deezer and it was great for a couple months. The app was pretty good, the AA app is great, the discovery was good, the sound quality for the hifi tier was excellent. But as time has gone on, it started playing the same songs over and over in their Flow feature - which is one of the best things about their service when it works right. Not only that, but in the last month or so, the app has started to have issues disconnecting me or only playing two songs or so before stopping and buffering for a minute or more before resuming (sometimes not at all and I have to manually go to a new playlist or restart Flow). It's getting so frustrating that I'm about to cancel my subscription but I don't know where to go. I guess back to Spotify?
The schadenfreude is strong with this one. I am so tired of them sidelining the content I pay them for (music streaming) and using dark patterns to try and force me to listen to podcasts on their app. I don't want it, I will never want it, leave me the hell alone and let me hide it from the UI.
Very much agreed. I don’t mind a podcast here or there, but that’s not what I go to Spotify for. I happily pay for Spotify premium, and have for years, because I love the easy access to commercial free music and being able to download playlists. I’ve never gone to Spotify for the podcast, and it really annoys me when they pop them in my face. I already pay for your service, stop aggressively marketing it to me.
Where I really think they screwed up is with signing Joe Rogan for an obscene amount of money. And I say this as someone who is a longtime fan of MMA, and recognizes what Joe Rogan has contributed to the sport. He went completely off the rails and is now indefensible. What are used to be a fun little podcast with silly conspiracy theories like does Bigfoot exist has become something much more sinister, and Spotify gave that a bigger platform and a butt load of money. If there was an alternative, I would happily subscribe to it instead of supporting what they’ve done there.
Edit: I got some great suggestions for alternative music services in the comments here. I’ll be sure to check them all out, especially since most have a free trial. One drawback of living in Canada is that often these services don’t get here until years later, if at all. Or the library is much more limited than it is in the US. But a few years have passed since I last checked so it’s definitely worth taking another look.
I've enjoyed Tidal for a good while now. They don't force videos on you in curated playlists and the like, either - though there are fewer of those in general.
Honestly Spotify's algorithms are trash, or were for the last year that I was using them.
Moved onto a different service and I'm much, much happier. Better recommendations, better playlist building, better service.
All the Rogan bullshit is just the cherry on top, knowing that none of my money is going to them.
I've had the opposite experience with Spotify algorithms! It has introduced me to a lot of music I love.
That being said, I also pump my play history into last.fm for another algorithm to feed me recommendations.
I’ve definitely had some issues with Spotify’s recommendations, though it’s also led me to some stuff I love. I really like the enhanced playlists, but it often re-adds songs again after I’ve removed them. And also adds way too much pop music, which I enjoy in small doses, but I am more of an industrial/metal fan.
I’ll check it out. Thanks!
I’m happy with Apple Music. You don’t even need a Mac to use it anymore with Cider, an Apple Music app available on Linux and Windows.
No thanks. https://old.reddit.com/r/AppleMusic/comments/vydyj8/i_know_everyone_likes_cider_but_the_devs_are/
Ugh. That sucks. Thankfully, I pretty much exclusively use Apple Music on my iPad and iPhone. Beyond that, I have Plex to stream my personal library of FLACs.
fwiw Apple now has their own Windows app in the Microsoft store... It's very buggy but works about as well as Cider ever did for me.
I can also recommend Apple Music. My go to app is Albums. It focuses on listening to entire albums as individual pieces. It has changed the way I interact with music.
I have also heard good things about Mavis Pro.
Albums looks pretty cool! Though I already do listen to my music as albums and I’m not keen on yet another subscription. But I do like the idea of metrics and stats!
I use YT Music, Spotify, and Apple Music. The reason I have YT Music is due to Youtube Premium I sometimes use YT Music to listen to unreleased music by an artists. I’m planning to drop Spotify soon I feel like when I listen to music in Spotify I’m inclined more to do playlist than listen to them by album. On the other hand, I feel like when I use Apple Music I get to listen to my fave or new artists by the album. Maybe it has something to do with the UI or that AM reminds me so much of iTunes when I was young. But I prefer the emphasis on album listening than to playlist, granted you can do either side on every platform. I guess my take away is that every music platforms focuses on varying listening habits.
You can also use iTunes lol.
Like YouTube Music?
I still preferred it as Google Play Music, but it's grown on me. Being able to upload your own music to stream anywhere is super handy, especially for stuff that isn't strictly music (like comedian stand up sets) that I want to listen to on a whim sometimes but will never be on a streaming service.
I tried Spotify for a year or so and kept getting the same few songs played over and over again so went back to YouTube Music. Ad-free YouTube is also a nice side effect.
If you're on desktop, you NEED YouTube Music Desktop App as the standard web interface is completely bollocks. It also enables scrobbling to last.fm which I find super useful.
The other protip for YouTube Music is to use a different account four Music than YouTube itself. Otherwise your Music recommendations get all screwed up if you accidentally click on a link that somehow features Ed Sheeran audio or something. It ends up like that Family Guy baby photos meme, just smashing your face with Ed Sheeran music for the rest of your existence no matter how little you want it.
I might understand it wrong but if you get Youtube premium won't you be forced to use the same account for both since you want the premium features on music as well as youtube?
You can have multiple channels under one account. That's how I avoid cross contamination between my main youtube watching channel and my YT Music listening one.
I’ll check it out! It wasn’t available in Canada when I got Spotify.
I'm also in Canada and use YouTube music, I switched from Spotify a couple years ago for the same reasons you outlined. It's good! The web interface for PC can be a little clunky, but otherwise it does everything I need it to do - I saw another poster mention a desktop app with a better interface so I'm going to check that out!
I second this. No ads on Youtube, good music recommendations, AND their podcast attempt failed a while ago, so they probably won't try mixing podcasts into music in the near future.
I see a lot of alternatives mentioned already, but no one has said Deezer. I've been using it for more than a year now and it's pretty good. There is a "flow" feature which let's you choose a general mood and it plays songs based on that and your listening habits and I've been using it extensively - sometimes it gets too "general", but skipping the songs you don't like "trains" the algorithm well enough imo
I use Spotify mostly on my phone and haven't seen a podcast recommendation for a long time. I just checked and it has two tabs now, one for music and one for podcasts.
I do absolutely understand the frustration. I was so tired of rogans face looking at me whenever I opened the app, that I sent them an angry email threatening to cancel the subscription if they don't remove it from my frontpage.
I can't exactly tell how long it has been that I don't see podcasts anymore, but I haven't felt the anger of seeing joes face for quite some time now.
I mostly listen to podcasts, and I'm pissed at Spotify too, but mostly for signing up Joe Rogan and blasting so much money up his ass.
As a musician, I can't wait for the worst paying streaming service to go under.
Good to know. What streaming service pays the best? I know it used to be GPM but I just kind of assumed Google switched to YouTube music as an excuse to screw over musicians.
Youtube, if someone with Youtube premium streams your tracks/videos.. Apple music is pretty good too. Im not so sure about the others because the streaming numbers on some platforms are so small for me.
Cool, good to know.
Are you indie or with a record label?
Does streaming end up being a decent source of income or is touring and selling merch still your best bet?
And please tell me if you don't want to share. I'm legitimately interested.
I never liked the idea of platform exclusive podcasts like what Spotify started to do. When I try to explain why, I struggled because it's the same model as video games, tv shows, and movies... most of them can only be accessed on one or two platforms.
Then I realized that the podcast model of open distribution to a client of your choice is a better distribution model for us the listeners. I'm glad the Spotify approach is struggling here. Hopefully it will stop the process of creating walled gardens for podcasts.
I remember loading podcasts in to my mp3 player in like 2005. That’s what’s frustrating about Spotify to me, we were doing just fine without a middleman for decades.
It is the same model but it's a bad distribution model for all these other forms of media too, at least as far as the consumer is concerned. It's only a good model for the distributor (e.g. Spofity/Netflix/Valve/whoever)
The crazy part is that from the get-go, the distribution model was inherently open and independent. That's literally what made podcasts what they are...they're audio files served via RSS, which is still extremely effective even in 2023. It's always felt wrong to me when a show distributed outside of that original model was called a "podcast"...the traditional "radio show" makes more sense to my ears. Corporate backed and centrally distributed "podcasts" always struck me as a contradiction.
Don't all platforms do that to a certain extent? Personally I'm fond of Audible's radio drama style podcasts, but they're only on Audible.
The majority of podcasts are just audio files distributed on RSS feeds that any podcast player can support. Any attempt to move towards a company controlling this ecosystem is something I won't ever support.
Who is all? I only knew of Spotify, and you've mentioned Audible, but besides that:
But maybe the joke's on me and I'm missing hidden gems
Anywag this is how it goes in the universe. Those who do it for fun and no big incentive to themselves are less motivated to promote their work via commercial avenues, and may not have money for doing interesting things or spending tons of time, and thus risk being outcompeted by those that have a self-replenishing budget for all of the above. This may or may not, in turn, be outcompeted by more lucrative exclusivity contracts, depending on whether they manage to portray a public image that it's normal to have to have some specific DRM player to be able to listen to a specific set of podcasts and people who are new to the concept (introduced via their music player (Spotify) or audiobook player (Audible)) just don't know any better.
Yes, that's why I don't quite feel like my attitude towards Spotify is warranted. There might be a few other exclusives out there, but I think the open model is better for listeners.
It's a better distribution model for any type of media I feel.
That's why it's so nice to be a pc gamer right now because you can play almost any game from any company (except for Nintendo) and from any era.
That's also why Spotify works well because you can access any music from their app (almost) and you don't have to look through several apps to find what you want.
In a bit of neat math, Spotify is laying off exactly one employee from their podcast division for each million dollars they're paying Joe Rogan to distribute vaccine disinformation. (200)
For whatever reason I fell off the podcast wagon way back in 2012. I assumed that podcasts would just die. I stopped paying attention. I was surprised to learn around 2017 or so that that first "wave" was only the beginning and that podcasts were booming. Everyone and their moms had podcasts.
And along with the glut of podcasts, the drama and the in-jokes. Want to listen to an interesting podcast about a specific topic? Good luck making it through the personal lives of the hosts. Trying to jump into the middle of a DECADE-running podcast? Whoops, the jokes don't make any sense without literally hundreds of episodes of context.
It all seems so exhausting.
I listened to a LOT of podcasts in those early days. I never thought they would die, it doesn't surprise me that they've become more popular - surprised you say you expected them to die out. They've been consistently on the rise.
I don't listen to them much now just bc of circumstances (I used to have a job where I could listen to them all day long without really messing up my focus, not anymore). There is definitely an oversaturation now and I feel you on inside jokes etc. There are a couple podcasts I still listen to that I've listened to since the start (MBMBAM being one that is 13 years old now). I feel like people love the inside jokes/running gags/personal life stuff etc and it contributes to the "intimate" feeling a lot of podcasts play on.
Oh yeah, I totally agree twice. 1. I'm a dingus who thought they'd die, that's on me. 2. The "intimate" feeling is certainly a draw. Funny you should mention MBMBAM; that's one of the podcasts I tried to catch up on but was left floundering.
I don't think you really need to catch up on much to listen to MBMBAM but you do need to listen to a few episodes to get the segments they do, the dynamic between them etc.
It's also one of those where I'd say... go listen to the back catalog bc it's worth it. And unlike podcasts focusing on current events and such it's not like it really matters if you're listening to older episodes, they're rarely "topical" anyway.
I've had to cull a lot of mine. I really meant to catch up, but I can't realistically get through thousands of hours of content, and it was causing me a lot of stress to see all those unread episodes.
The only podcasts I listen to now are ones that are specifically targeted with an eventual end date (Persona 5 playthrough, Zelda lore), and history podcasts. And even those, I had to cut some good ones out. Sorry History of Egypt, I just can't listen to 300 episodes.
If you enjoy it, what's the issue with a practically infinite supply of it? Do you primarily listen to storytelling podcasts where you'd want closure before moving on?
I wish any of my podcasts (mainly science, news, or true crime) had thousands of hours of published material rather than waiting on average a week for on average 45 minutes of content. That sounds amazing ._.
Basically. So the problem is what I'm getting to the Fourth Crusade in Byzantine history, the fall of Kassite Babylon in Oldest Stories, the Greco Bactrians in Hellenistic, and the end of the Achaemenids in Persia. I'd like to finish something.
Exactly. I already stress out about my YouTube subscriptions...don't need to add audio to it!
Why does it need 300 episodes... It seems it'd be faster to read a bunch of wikis instead
Wikipedia can only give you so much context. You also lose any sense of narrative, interviews with historians in the field, the reasoning of experts, etc.
You also need to keep track of every link you see, since explanations for different events will have their own page, which in turn have their own pages, and a curator is really useful.
In addition, you need to already know what you're looking for. I wouldn't have know about the neo Sumerian attributes of the Sealand Dynasty of Mesopotamia if not for the Oldest Stories podcast. There's definitely an article about it, but it's just something that wouldn't have come up unless I was reading about the peripheries of Babylonian history
For Egypt specifically, you need a lot of episodes because Egypt has a very long history, which continues to this day. I've had to cull it just because I don't care about Egypt enough to keep committing so much of my time. But I'm still happily subscribed to the History of Byzantium, History of Persia, Oldest Stories and the Hellenistic Age podcasts. All of those time periods fascinate me, and I want someone to build a narrative around them so that I can understand the events they're involved in.
Let me know the next up and coming thing you think will die in the next five years, so I can turn around and heavily invest in it.
😂😂😂
I have a hardcore schedule of 5 weekly podcasts that I will not miss but, to me, the interesting thing is that I'm not sure how the market grows from there. Like, I love podcasts. They're fantastic for my brain while I do busy work around the house. But I, someone who should be a huge target for marketing, will never, ever click on any new podcast ads because I don't WANT more for the exact reasons you mention. I like living in my little sphere.
I don't know. Maybe that's an issue across the board with media now and not podcast specific. I just have to imagine the podcast bubble bursts soon.
Well, I do. There's more listening time than there is good podcast material available that I've found so far.
Which is not to say that I'm a fan of ads and I may not follow for that reason (or listen to the ad to begin with), but that's a different story.
Also, most people just don't listen to any at all. That, and stealing listeners from other podcasts by having better or refreshing content, are the primary growth opportunities I'd expect
Not to mention that, at least for me, there are different "tiers" of podcasts. Some I will dedicate 95% of my attention to while doing something super menial or even just lying in bed. Others, I will put on so that something is in the background and maybe just catch half of it, if that.
I go through at least 20+ hours of podcasts every week, many of them completely new; but since I don't really pay attention to most of it, I am not overly picky about the quality, as long as it's even remotely interesting or funny.
I prefer podcasts endorsements / shoutouts within a podcast I actually like, because the quality / production value will most likely match that of the endorsing podcast, so I think that's cool.
I really like Off Menu, TaskMaster the Podcast and No Such Thing As A Fish
None* of them have a "required listening" sort of deal, it's easy enough to jump into any episode and listen to it and be entertained
I was with you when you were saying that a lot of them have a lot of personal blah blah to listen through to get to the content, but having to listen to a previous episode (let alone "hundreds of hours' worth") to get a joke has never once happened to me.
Granted, I'm not as new to the space (got into it again in 2020), but I just can't think of any inside joke in anything I listen to. Most general cross-referencing is accompanied by a 1-2 sentence recap of the topic I think.
Just guessing here, maybe this is a culture thing? I noticed I can't stand most English-spoken podcasts because the hosts feel like they're amazing comedians and their audience would surely rather hear another butt joke (that's hardly funny, but the hosts can barely breathe), or personal funny "what happened to me the other day" story, than content reflecting the title of the podcast or episode. There's some exceptions like Exocast (discussing papers and interviewing people on the topic of exoplanets), or A Problem Squared which is made by people that genuinely do comedic stage performances for a living, but for the average podcast made by an average Joe, maybe it's a cultural thing? You could try a podcast from a second language that you speak
I'd be curious if any other germanic language speakers (Dutch, German, Swedish, etc.) experienced this similarly, since that's where I'm from
I went through the same thought process. I tried out some podcasts years ago, and was unimpressed. I figured it’s not for me and didn’t look back or pay attention to them. They’ve taken off ever since.
Even today, my family will sometimes link me to an interesting podcast they’d listened to, and more often than not it’s unabridged, unedited content. It’s sometimes an hour of listening for 10 minutes of information.
Particularly for science/political oriented podcasts, the long meandering conversational style seems perfectly suited for presenting misinformation or inaccurate information and leading you to believe it. Probably one reason Joe Rogan’s podcast is so successful.
Rogan is the reason I left Spotify and went to Tidal. I don't want to support his shit, I just want to listen to music. Being a music host is rarely met with controversy, only hitting issues when they try to push content due to selling promotions.
Being a podcast host though is very different. Music can have inflammatory lyrics but usually people care more about avoiding bad artists than they do bad songs. Podcasts have people avoiding both. It's even worse as Spotify pushes inflammatory content like Rogan on everyone. TV got away with having Fox next to NBC mostly because TV didn't promote any channels beyond the unavoidable bundling. Spotify makes sure you never forget what they are promoting.
Imagine buying Gimlet and then completely fucking it all up.
I switched to Tidal in the beginning of the year. It has its faults (trust me, there are many), but it isn't trying to constantly shove something I don't want. It costs the same as Spotify but provides HiFi audio (I don't have good hardware to take advantage of this sadly, but at least they aren't trying to charge extra for it) and they pay artists more per stream.
If I'm paying for something, I should be able to control the app's experience and not vice versa.
I have been considering switching to Tidal as well.
If you don't mind, could you share some of it's faults and your experience migrating to Tidal? Was it easy to move your playlists? Does it work well with Android Auto?
I have the following issues with Tidal:
Pinging @phedre for visibility.
Thanks! Very thorough and unfortunately lists a lot of features I use heavily on Spotify.
I've been on Google Music (well, YouTube Music now) since it launched. I've considered swapping services, but never getting ads on YouTube is a benefit it turns out I make massive use of.
How's Tidal's library? Is everything on par now?
For me, Tidal's library still falls short compared to Spotify. Certain Japanese city pop songs I'm into aren't available.
Nothing will ever beat YouTube Music's catalog, due to it being YouTube.
Japanese city pop (and some very obscure dubstep) is the exact reason I switched from Tidal to YT Music, so much music that has been uploaded on YouTube that will never be officially added, and the ability to upload music yourself is also a major benefit there.
Lately I've been thinking about going back to just having local-first music, but YTM has filled my need for the most part.
I do love that they pay the artists more, but I’m curious about what issues you run into. I’m definitely going to check out a few alternative services to Spotify, which I mostly use it to download playlist for running and driving. Spotify also has some interface issues with CarPlay. But I’m not sure if that’s a Spotify issue or a CarPlay issue.
Tidal is also very underrated. It's site / UI are very fast-loading and efficient, and the app is the same way. It feels snappy and enjoyable to use as a streaming service. I used it for a long time. Only reason I don't now is because I already get YT premium so I just use YTM when I need a streaming service. That said, I don't stream often. I prefer to have my own mp3 collection and play it instead when I can.
If I were to switch back to any dedicated music streaming service though, it would be Tidal- I don't feel any of the competition is remotely close.
I purposely avoid Spotify for multiple reasons. Trying to add exclusivity / essentially DRM to podcasts and make it their own thing vs. just a common thing podcasters offer everywhere, paying Joe Rogan, etc.
Podcasts like Heavyweight, that went Spotify exclusive a while ago, are now even publishing previous seasons on the old RSS feeds to promote upcoming releases.
As someone who resonates with the simplicity, flexibility and openess that has made the podcasting ecosystem so creative and successful I struggle to see the down side in the struggling of Spotify's podcasting division.
When Gimlet went to Spotify, the podcasts they forced to go Spotify only just disappeared from my headspace, it's not like I don't have enough podcasts to listen to (plus my commute had just disappeared due to covid, so that's less podcast time). Them losing all their famous personalities was just the last nail on the coffin.
Honestly I want to see their entire approach to podcasts to fail until they finally get that dangerous hack Rogan off of there. They're giving a guy with multiple TBI's a platform to tell people whats fact or not. Stick with music spotify, instead of misinformation.
Throw him and Bill Simmons out. They're both to blame for what's transpiring.
I've had my fucking fill of this obnoxious bostonian and his bad jokes. He was better at ESPN because they had him on a leash.
Spotify was my one stop shop for music and podcasts until they merged the 2 interfaces. I will never understand why you would ever put these 2 drastically different forms of media, with totally unique filters, sorting, and management, into a single giant playlist when there were 2 perfectly fine interfaces before. Who pulls out their phone and wants to browse through Podcasts and Music simultaneously? Does anyone really mix multiple long-form audio narratives with a couple tracks off an artist’s new hit album?
I just felt like I was losing my mind when they trashed the interface, mixed all their media together, and I immediately had to jump to PocketCasts just to have a decent podcast management interface. A monumental step backwards, which was apparently an omen of their total lack of understand of the Podcast audience and market.
I have had PocketCasts for over a decade and never felt any reason to listen to podcasts anywhere else. It did me right when I was a heavy listener in the early to mid2010s and still does me right now.
I've dumped several podcasts the moment I heard they were moving to Spotify, and a few have gone down in flames since the transition. No tears shed from me.
I miss the days of getting my podcasts from RSS. I used to use BeyondPod to pull them and would sync to my phone and with a scheduled task, my NAS so I could listen to them in Plex. The centralization to Spotify is once again another product of the enshittification cycle. I don't want to use a dawdling music streaming that admittingly, did introduce me to some new artists if its going to shove the Russian Ark episode of Heavyweight down my fucking throat EVERY THREE FUCKING MINUTES!
And as such, I have completely given up on podcasts altogether. If I can't get them the way I want, then I won't play the game. And it seems to have worked out, because its a crowded space and the ones I liked, like Revolutions or TWIT or even Last Podcast on the Left no longer hit the same way. It's a crowded space and its careening towards a crash.
Also, Spotify gave Joe Rogan a platform, and is letting the worst impulses of Bill Simmons ruin everything given how he's the "podfather" there and has his hands in the busting of the Gimlet union. Spotify should make a separate app for podcasting, but they won't. This is the only way they are getting any engagement. They're fucked.
Music streaming is increasingly played out for me, too. Maybe i'll find an artist I like, and I go straight to Bandcamp to buy the FLACs, because I get to have the final say on how I listen to it.
I've been listening to podcasts exclusively through PocketCasts for years now: https://pocketcasts.com/
It's as close to RSS as I can get. There're a couple of Patreons I subscribe to (Blank Check and QAA) that have a feed you can load up to it, which works really well.
That was one of the recommendation when I posted this (https://tildes.net/~tech/x21/recommend_me_a_podcast_app_for_android) thread a while ago. I enjoyed it but ended up settling with AntennaPod which is also very RSS remincent and can still add postcasts via RSS if you have the links.
As it honestly deserves to. It was home to a platform which had no restrictions for harmful misinformation and shoved it down people's throats no matter what. I can see some benefits of Spotify like some songs being released there, but downloading outside of a commercial app has its perks too, this little fiasco being a good example
I mean you're being kind of a jerk about it but in general, sure, you're right about some of that. Many of us are capable of weighing the pros/cons and deciding to tolerate the bad parts in order to benefit from the good parts. Spotify's algorithmic recommendations, huge library, and ease of multi-device streaming are strong enough incentives to keep me on the platform. But I'm not going to "quit my bitching" about the aspects of the platform I dislike.
You tried a couple of podcasts, stopped listening, and you're happy that Spotify doesn't try to get you to listen again. Cool. That's about the bare minimum they could possibly do for usability. My complaint is that the very top of my home screen on Spotify is "Episodes for you" full of podcasts that I have never listened to and have no interest in listening to. I don't want to listen to podcasts or audiobooks on Spotify. I don't want their marketing popups trying to convince me to listen to them. I don't want the "Podcasts & Shows" tab in front of the "Albums" and "Artists" tab. I want to entirely hide this content or at the very least put it under/after music.
It isn't about Joe Rogan or whatever, I could not care less about that dude. I listen to podcasts/audiobooks on different apps and will not be switching to theirs. Spotify's abuse of my existing relationship with them to nag me, constantly, to use their platform for these things not only annoys me, but it tarnishes my opinion of their product and company as a whole.
Instead of loving them for the things they do well, I begrudgingly tolerate them because I'm captive by those things. It's a terrible way to treat your users when all you have to do is give me a checkbox to say "never display or recommend podcasts". The only reason this very basic, obvious feature is absent is because they want to nag me. Some mind-numbingly inhuman calculation of profits has convinced them to diminish the user experience and relationship because it will eek out $x more in profit, and I hate it.
In other words, the enshittification of all platforms continues.
I'm mostly very happy with it. It has far more of my music than the alternatives even though I think the others have better UI. I just wouldn't be listening to new music ever if I had to find it and individually download new music every time. And most of the music I listen to isn't gonna be the top-seeded torrent, and may not even have a torrent to begin with.
Podcast shows benefit from the openness and opaque nature of existing podcast distribution platforms. Advertisers get subscriber numbers and weekly downloads, maybe download analytics (regions, ages, etc) and that's it. They don't learn if a listener decided to skip that particular episode, if they skipped through the ad, etc. The SECOND podcasts sign to a platform like spotify, they lose the safety of that unknown. Suddenly advertisers are on their ass about engagement and skipping ads and all the bullshit that comes along with a platform that can track every single action a user takes and report back to the advertisers. Users lose out too, getting a worse experience as time goes on, imagine in the future the app forcefully slowing down an adread to 1x speed and locking out skipping ahead, or real-time injecting their own ads into designated breaks. I wouldn't use spotify as a podcast platform ever, I use one where I am in control.
That article is all over the place. It's one thing to dislike Spotify moving into podcasts and signing exclusivity deals. It's another thing to disagree ideologically with the podcasts that Spotify hosts. We conflate the two at our peril as a society.
It's been really hard for me to find a good streaming service lately. I feel like they've all gone downhill in some way or another. I've tried Spotify, YouTube Music, Qobuz, Amazon Music, Tidal, and Deezer. They all have their pros and cons.
As an audiophile, YouTube Music is just out of contention for sound quality alone. Spotify is "good enough" but not amazing. Tidal was pretty good when I tried them, but I didn't like their Android Auto app very much (which I use a lot), they removed last.fm scrobbling support, and I thought Spotify's playlists and discovery were better. Amazon Music was just awful. I really loved Qobuz but it was lacking too many artists and albums for me to seriously use it full time. So many artists just didn't show up when I went to search them.
I'm currently on Deezer and it was great for a couple months. The app was pretty good, the AA app is great, the discovery was good, the sound quality for the hifi tier was excellent. But as time has gone on, it started playing the same songs over and over in their Flow feature - which is one of the best things about their service when it works right. Not only that, but in the last month or so, the app has started to have issues disconnecting me or only playing two songs or so before stopping and buffering for a minute or more before resuming (sometimes not at all and I have to manually go to a new playlist or restart Flow). It's getting so frustrating that I'm about to cancel my subscription but I don't know where to go. I guess back to Spotify?