The facile take is that Apple has run out of hardware ideas and now just adds a new button to the iPhone each year — Action button last year, Camera Control this year, maybe they’ll finally add those green/red phone call buttons next year. But that’s underestimating just how radical it is for Apple, in the iPhone’s 18th annual hardware iteration, to add a hardware button dedicated to a single application.
After over a week using several iPhone 16 review units, my summary of Camera Control is that it takes a while to get used to — I feel like I’m still getting used to it — but it already feels like something I wouldn’t want to do without. It’s a great idea, and a bold one.
Also, none of the Apple Intelligence features currently in iOS 18.1 are game-changing. The Clean Up feature in Photos is pretty good, and when it doesn’t produce good results, you can simply revert to the original. The AI-generated summaries of messages, notifications, and emails in Mail are at times apt, but at others not so much. I haven’t tried the Rewrite tool because I’m, let’s face it, pretty confident in my own writing ability. But, after my own final editing pass, I ran this entire review through the Proofread feature, and it correctly flagged seven mistakes I missed, and an eighth that I had marked, but had forgotten to fix. Most of its suggestions that I have chosen to ignore were, by the book, legitimate.
Type to Siri is definitely cool, but I don’t see why we couldn’t have had that feature since 2010. I have actually used the new “Product Knowledge” feature, where Siri draws upon knowledge from Apple’s own support documentation, while writing this review. It’s great. But maybe Apple’s support website should have had better search years ago?
These are all good features. But let’s say you never heard of LLMs or ChatGPT. And instead, at WWDC this year, without any overarching “Apple Intelligence” marketing umbrella, Apple had simply announced features like a new cool-looking Siri interface, typing rather than talking to Siri, being able to remove unwanted background objects from photos, a “proofreading” feature for the standard text system that extends and improves the years-old but (IMO) kinda lame grammar-checking feature on MacOS, and brings it to iOS too? Those would seem like totally normal features Apple might add this year. But not tentpole features. These Apple Intelligence features strike me as nothing more than the sort of nice little improvements Apple makes across its OSes every year.
I might be underselling how impossible the Clean Up feature would be without generative AI. I am very likely underselling how valuable the new writing tools might prove to people trying to write in a second language, or who simply aren’t capable of expressing themselves well in their first language. But like I said, they’re all good features. I just don’t see them as combining to form the collective tentpole that Apple is marketing “Apple Intelligence” as. I get it that from Apple’s perspective, engineering-wise, it’s like adding an entire platform to the existing OS. It’s a massive engineering effort and the on-device execution constraints are onerous. But from a user’s perspective, they’re just ... features. When’s the last year Apple has not added cool new features along the scope of these?
If not for the AI hype wave the industry is currently caught in, this emphasis on which features are part of “Apple Intelligence” would seem as strange as Apple emphasizing, in advertisements, which apps are now built using SwiftUI.
Every phone on the market will soon be able to generate impersonal saccharine passages of text and uncanny-valley images via LLMs. Only Apple has the talent and passion to create something as innovative and genuinely useful as Camera Control.
I have to say, I'm normally OK with Gruber's writings, and I'm a happy iPhone user, but sometimes the Apple glazing borders into self parody
I have to say, I'm normally OK with Gruber's writings, and I'm a happy iPhone user, but sometimes the Apple glazing borders into self parody
Every phone on the market will soon be able to generate impersonal saccharine passages of text and uncanny-valley images via LLMs. Only Apple has the talent and passion to create something as innovative and genuinely useful as Camera Control.
Like, I can't remember the last Andoid phone I had that didn't have "double press power button to launch camera app even when phone is locked." On my S21, I can then choose to have the volume keys...
Like, I can't remember the last Andoid phone I had that didn't have "double press power button to launch camera app even when phone is locked."
On my S21, I can then choose to have the volume keys control zoom or act as the shutter.
I guess now that Apple's doing it's innovative though.
It's not just a button that opens the camera app. It's also a touch panel for making fine adjustments. It defaults to zoom in the camera app, and there's an API that lets other apps make use of it...
It's not just a button that opens the camera app. It's also a touch panel for making fine adjustments. It defaults to zoom in the camera app, and there's an API that lets other apps make use of it for whatever they want.
Ok, so it uses a touch panel instead of volume buttons. It's neat, but hardly 'innovation of the year' material. It's derivative. That's fine, but 'Only Apple has the talent' is so eye-rollingly...
Ok, so it uses a touch panel instead of volume buttons. It's neat, but hardly 'innovation of the year' material. It's derivative. That's fine, but 'Only Apple has the talent' is so eye-rollingly bad I broke my personal rule to not comment on Apple threads.
I'm glad Apple users will get to discover the joy of programmable buttons. My ebook app uses the volume keys to scroll. My terminal emulator uses them to zoom text. Most other apps are better served with it as the volume key.
Maybe next year they'll innovate a replaceable battery.
Sure, the exaggeration is a bit much, but some of us Apple users see it for more than you are. First of all, it's a re-imagining of a technology that existed back from the 2016 MacBook Pros with...
Sure, the exaggeration is a bit much, but some of us Apple users see it for more than you are. First of all, it's a re-imagining of a technology that existed back from the 2016 MacBook Pros with its Taptic Engine providing haptic feedback. An experience so good that it's mind blowing it took 5 years for some Windows OEMs to even start thinking about it.
The second is the impressive pass through of the capacitive capabilities to first party cases as well rather than just cheating with a cutout. That's engineering that they added into a product that's generally just made with a simple mold. It can be argued this is a bad thing, but it's certainly a different beast which makes it interesting.
The third is the implication for other buttons. Does this add better weather proofing? Does this open up more features in the future on all the other buttons? Does this mean that my future buttons will always be the exact same satisfying clickiness?
The fourth is the third reiterated, but after the Apple Vision Pro came out, it's been very clear that Apple takes technology from one device and moves it into another later. They're thinking about these features and how to integrate into other product categories, sometimes a decade later. Will we see a merging of hardware with half presses and software, doubling the actions per button over the binary state right now?
Maybe none of this seems terribly exciting to you, but it's at least something Apple-esque about it that we're not seeing in other manufacturers. Adding just another button is not the same thing.
I used the camera control button in store for a minute and it felt okay. It felt great for landscape photos, terrible for portrait, and ultimately left me wondering if it was even worth learning over just the existing on screen controls. But regardless, it's fascinating to see an attempt at something new!
But doesn't Apple already do this kind of with 3D Touch (RIP) and Haptic Touch? But those have potentially more than three states even? Do people even use these existing technologies? Will a...
Will we see a merging of hardware with half presses and software, doubling the actions per button over the binary state right now?
But doesn't Apple already do this kind of with 3D Touch (RIP) and Haptic Touch? But those have potentially more than three states even? Do people even use these existing technologies? Will a physical button make that more likely? Just kinda spitballing questions. I think maybe a physical button might increase adoption of half presses/haptic touches.
Heh, in my experience, mostly no. A very small minority of users adopted the features. I think this time, Apple is hoping for something different by making a very focused interaction in...
Do people even use these existing technologies?
Heh, in my experience, mostly no. A very small minority of users adopted the features. I think this time, Apple is hoping for something different by making a very focused interaction in camera-only. I agree with you that a physical button might increase adoption. 3D Touch was put on screens that aren't obviously supposed to be pressed, and in fact went against the grain of everything we're taught (glass being fragile).
I think 3D Touch and Haptic Touch fell victim to the design of smartphone UI that we refined over the course of years. In the formative years for all-screen phones there was no secondary "click"...
I think 3D Touch and Haptic Touch fell victim to the design of smartphone UI that we refined over the course of years. In the formative years for all-screen phones there was no secondary "click" action available. All of a sudden you can now get a secondary tap/click - like right-clicking on a laptop/desktop. But everything is designed so that you don't need to, and redesigning so that some capabilities are hidden behind the second action would be confusing and more complicated.
Haptic Touch is still going strong, it's just that... well... it's just a long-press, which has been the "right click" idiom for touchscreens since the beginning.
Haptic Touch is still going strong, it's just that... well... it's just a long-press, which has been the "right click" idiom for touchscreens since the beginning.
I don't ever use it, though. And I know it exists. Sometimes I'm bored and long press on an icon on the home screen. I see a little menu pop up, think "huh..." and then leave the menu.
I don't ever use it, though. And I know it exists. Sometimes I'm bored and long press on an icon on the home screen. I see a little menu pop up, think "huh..." and then leave the menu.
That's a misconception that illustrates exactly why 3D Touch didn't work out on iPhones though. The entire duration of it, most users couldn't figure out that it wasn't built as a long press...
That's a misconception that illustrates exactly why 3D Touch didn't work out on iPhones though. The entire duration of it, most users couldn't figure out that it wasn't built as a long press alternative. You could do a press, a long press, or a hard press. It added an extra element that today Apple has tried to merge with long press since 3D Touch died, but it's still a bit different.
But like... whats the point? One of the biggest problems with UX is that if a user can't see it, it might as well not exist. In that way, even the old 'giant menus of text' still have an advantage...
But like... whats the point? One of the biggest problems with UX is that if a user can't see it, it might as well not exist. In that way, even the old 'giant menus of text' still have an advantage over having to learn 2 different alt-presses.
Users are constantly performing non obvious actions. And products constantly build in "hidden" features. I found out this year that the majority of my friends (20s and 30s) don't even know ctrl+t...
Users are constantly performing non obvious actions. And products constantly build in "hidden" features. I found out this year that the majority of my friends (20s and 30s) don't even know ctrl+t exists for opening a tab. At least with the iPhone, Apple's spent a significant amount of money advertising the functionality so maybe people will know it exists. Maybe they won't! But Apple has the money to try to find new paradigms so.. why not would be a better question. If it doesn't work out, no harm done.
Edit: u/vord, I missed that your message was in reply to the 3D Touch. I thought you meant the new Camera Control. I think the feeling mostly still applies so I will leave this up, but wanted to let you know in case it didn't make sense.
It's unfortunate, because macOS has used little power user bits in the vein of 3D/Haptic touch all over the place for most of its existence to great effect. iOS could stand to learn some things...
It's unfortunate, because macOS has used little power user bits in the vein of 3D/Haptic touch all over the place for most of its existence to great effect. iOS could stand to learn some things from its older sibling.
Honest question: does anyone intensely desire a revolutionary phone at this point? Aside from improvements to things we already have, such as a better camera or battery life? I kinda feel like...
Honest question: does anyone intensely desire a revolutionary phone at this point? Aside from improvements to things we already have, such as a better camera or battery life? I kinda feel like smartphones are like bicycles at this point. Sure, some bicycles are better than others, but the basics are more of less set in stone. A new bicycle may be good, but that's hardly exciting.
Linus from LTT had pretty much the same take. This phone isn’t for people who have the iPhone 15. Possibly not even for people with the 14. It’s for people with the iPhone 13 or older (and Android...
Linus from LTT had pretty much the same take. This phone isn’t for people who have the iPhone 15. Possibly not even for people with the 14. It’s for people with the iPhone 13 or older (and Android phones of similar age). There have been enough combined yearly improvements that the new package is worth it. This is a sign of a mature product segment, and it’s a good thing.
When Apple upgrades the MacBook Pro from an M2 to an M3 with almost no other changes, we don’t bemoan that it makes no sense for someone with a months old M2 to upgrade. It’s for the people still on intel models, or first gen M1 users who want more power.
Personally I am happy with my 14 pro in purple. I really want usb c, and the action button and camera control would be very nice to have, but there aren’t really meaningful reasons for me to upgrade, and that is fine. Maybe if the 17 pro has actually good color options like the 14 did I will upgrade to that one.
To be honest I upgraded from an 8 to a new 14 this week. Since the release of the 16 it was $600 new from Apple. I feel like the jump isn't worth the additional $400.
To be honest I upgraded from an 8 to a new 14 this week. Since the release of the 16 it was $600 new from Apple. I feel like the jump isn't worth the additional $400.
Growth focus is the death of all products. Everything has to keep going - Zoom now is a platform. Dropbox is a platform. Iphone obviously has been a platform but they will keep adding on to it...
Growth focus is the death of all products. Everything has to keep going - Zoom now is a platform. Dropbox is a platform. Iphone obviously has been a platform but they will keep adding on to it until it’s trash. This is how MBA kill products. Unless you have a Jobs to think of whats next, you just keep adding “buttons” because it doesn’t take actual innovation.
Tangentially related, but in the tv show The Bear, super duper chef roast his trainee’s dish because it’s too complicated, tells him to ‘subtract’. He writes this onto a piece of paper and keeps...
Tangentially related, but in the tv show The Bear, super duper chef roast his trainee’s dish because it’s too complicated, tells him to ‘subtract’. He writes this onto a piece of paper and keeps it somewhere visible when preparing dishes.
I've only seen that speculation on Reddit, so I take it with a giant grain of salt. They do seem to be posting prototype updates as recently as a few days ago. Most credit cards have pretty good...
I've only seen that speculation on Reddit, so I take it with a giant grain of salt. They do seem to be posting prototype updates as recently as a few days ago. Most credit cards have pretty good protection, getting a chargeback against a non-delivered product should be pretty trivial.
I've been hovering over that preorder button for a bit, but I'll admit I haven't pulled the trigger yet myself.
There was some… I believe Russian company which circa 2014 came out with a model that had a regular screen in the front and an e-ink backside, defaulting to something like an always-on clock...
There was some… I believe Russian company which circa 2014 came out with a model that had a regular screen in the front and an e-ink backside, defaulting to something like an always-on clock display, but capable of mirroring the regular screen, especially text.
Absolutely. A phone running open linux distribution out of the box featuring today midrange hw and solid sw support. With an eink screen and replaceable battery and expandable storage. Made from...
Absolutely. A phone running open linux distribution out of the box featuring today midrange hw and solid sw support.
With an eink screen and replaceable battery and expandable storage. Made from ground up to be easy to repair.
Personally I used Pinephone(which at least tried in some points) as my main phone for about a year about two years ago but in the end the sw was not there yet and the battery life was too bad.
I just want a repairable phone that is affordable, fairly powerful and high refresh rate. The Fairphone comes close, but has underpowered hardware and is way overpriced for me. Something like the...
I just want a repairable phone that is affordable, fairly powerful and high refresh rate. The Fairphone comes close, but has underpowered hardware and is way overpriced for me. Something like the pricepoint and design of the Framework laptop would be great: extremely repairable and multiple selling points and up-to-date/hardware with a premium. I think I'm just going to end up buying a new phone around 2027 when they need to have replacable batteries in the EU as that's the part that fails the most quickly.
I do! I've been with Pixel phones since the 1, but I'm switching to Motorola on Black Friday cuz I want a flip phone. I think the technology is super cool and I'm really excited for a smaller...
I do! I've been with Pixel phones since the 1, but I'm switching to Motorola on Black Friday cuz I want a flip phone. I think the technology is super cool and I'm really excited for a smaller phone. I hope the new technology wave is flip and fold phones.
A few weeks ago there was a review of the iPhone 16 that talked about how apple removed features over the years (such as physical buttons and the headphone jack) and now were bringing them back....
A few weeks ago there was a review of the iPhone 16 that talked about how apple removed features over the years (such as physical buttons and the headphone jack) and now were bringing them back. And I got very interested because "what? they are bringing back the headphone jack?" and I considered buying one. But no, sadly they didn't bring back the headphone jack.
I find the removal of the jack a very user-hostile design decision. They had some lame excuse for it, maybe about waterproofing, as if a usb port was easier to waterproof than a headphone jack. But clearly it was just to sell more wireless headphones. It's even more hostile that they removed it from the iPads.
Well, there's two ways to look at it. That's a negative angle to see it as, the positive would be that "they" knew that wireless headphones had crossed the point where they would be the best...
But clearly it was just to sell more wireless headphones.
Well, there's two ways to look at it. That's a negative angle to see it as, the positive would be that "they" knew that wireless headphones had crossed the point where they would be the best option for most people, and removing the headphone jack was a seismic shock to get people on board.
And for that matter, that's effectively my experience. I hadn't really bothered with bluetooth headphones before then, since they were known for being clunky. But I was forced to give it a shot with the iPhone 7, and haven't looked back since; I still have ATH-m50x's collecting dust in the closet because it turns I actually can't stand having a wire tug at my head, despite being objectively better in audio quality than any of my wireless headphones.
I was solidly in the Android camp at the time. I remember making fun of Apple and the Apple sheep who thought this was a good idea. But it also seemed to have a similar effect on the rest of the...
I was solidly in the Android camp at the time. I remember making fun of Apple and the Apple sheep who thought this was a good idea. But it also seemed to have a similar effect on the rest of the industry. For a few years, everyone was trying to figure out how to make “true wireless” earbuds like the AirPods. Then they started getting much better than AirPods. And Apple started making AirPods also much better. It effectively spurred some pretty intense competition and lead to some excellent products from many manufacturers.
My last Android device was a galaxy s10e. It had a headphone jack, but I didn’t end up using it at all after the first few months. I got the galaxy buds a few months later. Despite having nice in ear monitors with great sound quality, I used the buds with worse sound quality far more often because they were so much more convenient. Even just not untangling the cable is so much better for my quality of life.
So yeah, in retrospect I agree with you. I can’t say for sure that Apple removed it at the right time, but I am glad someone removed it at some point. It was a turning point for the industry and propelled everyone forward with some great innovation. Even if I went back to Android today, I would not go out of my way to get one with a headphone jack.
If you need to force an innovation by taking away choice, rather than merely adding it, then that doesn't inspire confidence in the innovation, and the subsequent acceptance of it feels more like...
If you need to force an innovation by taking away choice, rather than merely adding it, then that doesn't inspire confidence in the innovation, and the subsequent acceptance of it feels more like stockholm syndrome than anything.
"It was controversial when Apple forced automakers to use thumbsticks instead of steering wheels, but I really learned to like the thumbstick."
Every product that sells, even bad ones, sell because someone has a use case for it, however niche or ubiquitous that use case may be. In that context, I agree that Apple taking away choice is an...
Every product that sells, even bad ones, sell because someone has a use case for it, however niche or ubiquitous that use case may be. In that context, I agree that Apple taking away choice is an overall negative for consumers. There’s plenty of reasons why someone would want to continue using wired headphones regardless of how good Bluetooth is. There are people who can just barely afford an iPhone and just want cheap wired earphones they already have laying around. On the other end you have people who already spent $1,000 on fancy wired IEMS, who don’t have any incentive to switch. And plenty of reasons in between.
Howeveeerrr…personally I had a very similar experience to Weldawadyathink. I’ve never been good at managing wired headphones. They always turn into a rats nest in my pocket that I eventually have to spend 5 minutes untangling. I don’t think I ever seriously considered Bluetooth before the headphone jack was taken out, but it’s all I use for mobile devices now. They’re just too dang convenient, and I’ve never really had issues with them falling out like I thought they would.
How much of a nuisance wires can be really becomes clear after getting used to wireless. I think if for some reason I wanted to switch back to wired on the go, I'd do a few things to make them...
How much of a nuisance wires can be really becomes clear after getting used to wireless.
I think if for some reason I wanted to switch back to wired on the go, I'd do a few things to make them more practical:
Grab some cheap-but-decent IEMs with replaceable cables
Buy a short, braided fabric cable that isn't as tangle-prone for said IEMs
Use them not with my phone, but something akin to one of those tiny iPod shuffles which can be worn in a shirt pocket, clipped onto a collar/sleeve, etc making cable length a non-issue
That I think would reduce the nuisance factor of cables adequately.
I mean, I'm not above using Bluetooth, even before they took my headphone jack away. But also I'm not always on the move, or at least not in a 'wires are a significant nuisance' way. Even when...
I mean, I'm not above using Bluetooth, even before they took my headphone jack away.
But also I'm not always on the move, or at least not in a 'wires are a significant nuisance' way. Even when cleaning, if I wanna use my studio headphones I just run the wire under my shirt then tuck the excess in my pocket.
And when plugged in to the stereo I just use an adapter now. I love doing this instead of bluetooth, because bluetooth still cuts out randomly, and also it forces me to leave my phone on the stereo and focus on literally anything else.
Anything that has me touching my phone less is a feature, not a detriment. :)
In my opinion, headphones is a solved problem and I don't want to be forced to use something else. I don't want wireless headphones. I don't want to need to charge them I don't want to lose them I...
In my opinion, headphones is a solved problem and I don't want to be forced to use something else.
I don't want wireless headphones.
I don't want to need to charge them
I don't want to lose them
I don't want extra e-waste from the batteries.
I want to be able to use any of the thousands of types of nice headphones that have been around for decades. I want to use the same headphones for my laptop and my old walkman and my phone. And I could, until Apple created wireless headphones and decided that it was better to force people to buy those instead of just supporting what has worked for decades.
Sure you can get an adapter, but USB adapters for headphones have problems. For one thing, they tend to disconnect when the device goes to sleep, so you need to unplug and re-plug them.
I use apple's dongle in an iPad that has usb c. As I implied in my earlier post, it's actually more annoying that they took the jack away from the tablets. My iPhone is an 11 which has a lightning...
I use apple's dongle in an iPad that has usb c. As I implied in my earlier post, it's actually more annoying that they took the jack away from the tablets.
My iPhone is an 11 which has a lightning adapter. I have apple headphones with a lightning plug for that (not an adapter). Which reminds me of another annoyance, you can't use those headphones while the phone is charging.
You can charge and use wired headphones at the same time. You just have to use a wireless charger. If you must use wires, I think I have had my phone charge when using a powered USB-C dock before,...
You can charge and use wired headphones at the same time. You just have to use a wireless charger.
If you must use wires, I think I have had my phone charge when using a powered USB-C dock before, but I can't remember if it was an Android handset or an iPhone.
Positive would be leaving the user a choice. Companies know a lot of things that are very definitely good(enough) for most people and are happy to make them reality.
Positive would be leaving the user a choice. Companies know a lot of things that are very definitely good(enough) for most people and are happy to make them reality.
The only good justification for removing the jack is that it restores just that many more cubic millimeters for additional battery. IIRC, some Android phone proved they weren’t a major impediment...
The only good justification for removing the jack is that it restores just that many more cubic millimeters for additional battery. IIRC, some Android phone proved they weren’t a major impediment to waterproofing when Apple had its courageous moment.
My Galaxy S5 was IP67 in 2014, same as the Iphone 7 in 2016, and you just yanked that back plastic off to replace the SIM, SD Card, and battery. It had a headphone jack and a dual-width USB3 (god...
My Galaxy S5 was IP67 in 2014, same as the Iphone 7 in 2016, and you just yanked that back plastic off to replace the SIM, SD Card, and battery. It had a headphone jack and a dual-width USB3 (god that was an awful connector). I still miss being able to use my phone as an IR remote.
I dropped that thing in many puddles and it still works (though I killed the battery recently). I still contend that was one of the best phones ever made (terrible USB port aside).
If I recall correctly the argument for removing it from phones had more to do with the amount of physical space the jack occupies internally, which is rather large relative to newer connectors....
If I recall correctly the argument for removing it from phones had more to do with the amount of physical space the jack occupies internally, which is rather large relative to newer connectors. Really though, to me that just says that it might be time for a new smaller headphone connector, especially when considering the durability/robustness gains that could be had with a new design (¼" jacks have significant wear issues and can snap somewhat easily).
That argument is much more weak on iPads, particularly on the larger models which are about the same physical size as a 13" MacBook Air.
Anecdotally I have never had one of those jacks ever break on me. As far as tube-shaped jacks go they are fairly durable. They also don’t actually take that much space; they are barely larger than...
Anecdotally I have never had one of those jacks ever break on me. As far as tube-shaped jacks go they are fairly durable.
They also don’t actually take that much space; they are barely larger than the male end. I seem to remember when they took it out there were critics saying there was a void in the phone.
Fair, my estimations of the jack's fragility may just be a bit of technological paranoia on my part! I've always been a little bit afraid of accidentally applying too much sheer force on a plugged...
Fair, my estimations of the jack's fragility may just be a bit of technological paranoia on my part! I've always been a little bit afraid of accidentally applying too much sheer force on a plugged in jack and breaking it off.
Regardless, I think a little circular or roundrect magsafe-type connector with shallow grooves for easy cleaning would be a nice little quality of life uplift over the old jacks.
I completely disagree. The standard TRS connectors are great in both 1/8" (3.5mm) and 1/4" and so a new standard is a terrible idea. I honestly am surprised that you have problems with 1/4", as I...
I completely disagree. The standard TRS connectors are great in both 1/8" (3.5mm) and 1/4" and so a new standard is a terrible idea. I honestly am surprised that you have problems with 1/4", as I find it such a robust and sturdy connector, especially compared to 1/8". I have also used 1/4" connectors a lot and have never had any break on me, it is a standard connector for too many things in the audio world because of how well it works. Also, moving to a different standard would involve replacing so many devices and would make current headphones obsolete. Also, as someone who has worked in the A/V industry, audio engineers are not giving up their 1/4" TRS headphones, and since most of those are actually terminated in 1/8" with a screw on 1/4" adapter, the standard would never change.
Nice catch that I was conflating sizes, in previous posts when referencing 1/4" jacks I was meaning the smaller more common 1/8" or 3.5mm jacks. The main wear issues I've encountered with...
Nice catch that I was conflating sizes, in previous posts when referencing 1/4" jacks I was meaning the smaller more common 1/8" or 3.5mm jacks.
The main wear issues I've encountered with headphone jacks haven't been with breaking (as noted in my other comment, that's just a perhaps-irrational fear) but rather with the jacks loosening, getting debris stuck in them, becoming flaky (have to turn the plug a certain way to for it sound right), etc.
That's the main reason why I might want a replacement, which could be designed for higher durability, easier cleaning, and smaller physical size. Being an analog signal, adapters would be easy to make and as cheap as chips so it's not as if traditional headphones would become useless.
They're definitely trying to make more money with that maneuver. And the same year they removed the headphone jack they also released AirPods. But Apple is the type of company to account for every...
They're definitely trying to make more money with that maneuver. And the same year they removed the headphone jack they also released AirPods. But Apple is the type of company to account for every cubic millimeter inside of their devices. They could have worked with tighter constraints by leaving it in. But I have to assume many hardware engineers for the iPhone were looking forward to its removal.
I have a feeling that I am in the minority here (on Tildes), but I don't need massive innovation on my phone to feel that an upgrade is worth it. I don't upgrade every year or anything, but I am...
I have a feeling that I am in the minority here (on Tildes), but I don't need massive innovation on my phone to feel that an upgrade is worth it. I don't upgrade every year or anything, but I am thinking of switching from my 12 mini to the 16.
I use my phone every single day, sometimes for multiple hours, sometimes in stressful situations, sometimes as a critical tool. I want it to work, to work smoothly, to be pleasant to use. Added up over the lifespan of a couple of years, I really don't think the ~$600 price tag is unreasonable, considering how much I use it. I view a phone in the same way as a pair of shoes or a mattress: I spend enough time using any of them that I really don't care about the price as long as the experience is worthwhile.
I used Android about a decade ago before switching to iPhones. I used Arch Linux until about 4 years ago before switching to OSX. In both cases my user experience on the Apple device has been magnitudes more pleasant than what I was using before. Maybe that makes me fanboy material, but so be it — I like Apple devices because they work for me and I don't have to think about them if I don't want to. And to quote Halt and Catch Fire, computers aren't the thing, they're the thing that gets us to thing. That's what I want.
I think this is why Apple stuff has much higher adoption than one might expect within techy (programmers, etc) circles. Logically Linux + Android would be the pairing of choice, but perhaps for...
I like Apple devices because they work for me and I don't have to think about them if I don't want to. And to quote Halt and Catch Fire, computers aren't the thing, they're the thing that gets us to thing.
I think this is why Apple stuff has much higher adoption than one might expect within techy (programmers, etc) circles. Logically Linux + Android would be the pairing of choice, but perhaps for many, something they don't need to tinker or fight with outside of work hours is appealing.
This is a significant factor, at least for me. I love my job, I’m still passionate about tech, but I do not want to spend my free time troubleshooting or tinkering with technology. I want it to...
something they don't need to tinker or fight with outside of work hours is appealing.
This is a significant factor, at least for me. I love my job, I’m still passionate about tech, but I do not want to spend my free time troubleshooting or tinkering with technology. I want it to function reliably, so I can enjoy my life.
Most of my family is in trades, and you know what the last thing the mechanics in my family generally want to do after work is? Fix cars.
Sure, there are some with project cars, but the work on those is generally slow and sporadic and they aren’t relied on daily to get the groceries. It’s the difference between tinkering with a gaming computer and your phone.
I have to say, I'm normally OK with Gruber's writings, and I'm a happy iPhone user, but sometimes the Apple glazing borders into self parody
Like, I can't remember the last Andoid phone I had that didn't have "double press power button to launch camera app even when phone is locked."
On my S21, I can then choose to have the volume keys control zoom or act as the shutter.
I guess now that Apple's doing it's innovative though.
It's not just a button that opens the camera app. It's also a touch panel for making fine adjustments. It defaults to zoom in the camera app, and there's an API that lets other apps make use of it for whatever they want.
Ok, so it uses a touch panel instead of volume buttons. It's neat, but hardly 'innovation of the year' material. It's derivative. That's fine, but 'Only Apple has the talent' is so eye-rollingly bad I broke my personal rule to not comment on Apple threads.
I'm glad Apple users will get to discover the joy of programmable buttons. My ebook app uses the volume keys to scroll. My terminal emulator uses them to zoom text. Most other apps are better served with it as the volume key.
Maybe next year they'll innovate a replaceable battery.
They did some innovation there for the regular 16.
But yes, I'm all for easy replaceable batteries in everything, especially their AirPods.
Sure, the exaggeration is a bit much, but some of us Apple users see it for more than you are. First of all, it's a re-imagining of a technology that existed back from the 2016 MacBook Pros with its Taptic Engine providing haptic feedback. An experience so good that it's mind blowing it took 5 years for some Windows OEMs to even start thinking about it.
The second is the impressive pass through of the capacitive capabilities to first party cases as well rather than just cheating with a cutout. That's engineering that they added into a product that's generally just made with a simple mold. It can be argued this is a bad thing, but it's certainly a different beast which makes it interesting.
The third is the implication for other buttons. Does this add better weather proofing? Does this open up more features in the future on all the other buttons? Does this mean that my future buttons will always be the exact same satisfying clickiness?
The fourth is the third reiterated, but after the Apple Vision Pro came out, it's been very clear that Apple takes technology from one device and moves it into another later. They're thinking about these features and how to integrate into other product categories, sometimes a decade later. Will we see a merging of hardware with half presses and software, doubling the actions per button over the binary state right now?
Maybe none of this seems terribly exciting to you, but it's at least something Apple-esque about it that we're not seeing in other manufacturers. Adding just another button is not the same thing.
I used the camera control button in store for a minute and it felt okay. It felt great for landscape photos, terrible for portrait, and ultimately left me wondering if it was even worth learning over just the existing on screen controls. But regardless, it's fascinating to see an attempt at something new!
But doesn't Apple already do this kind of with 3D Touch (RIP) and Haptic Touch? But those have potentially more than three states even? Do people even use these existing technologies? Will a physical button make that more likely? Just kinda spitballing questions. I think maybe a physical button might increase adoption of half presses/haptic touches.
Heh, in my experience, mostly no. A very small minority of users adopted the features. I think this time, Apple is hoping for something different by making a very focused interaction in camera-only. I agree with you that a physical button might increase adoption. 3D Touch was put on screens that aren't obviously supposed to be pressed, and in fact went against the grain of everything we're taught (glass being fragile).
I think 3D Touch and Haptic Touch fell victim to the design of smartphone UI that we refined over the course of years. In the formative years for all-screen phones there was no secondary "click" action available. All of a sudden you can now get a secondary tap/click - like right-clicking on a laptop/desktop. But everything is designed so that you don't need to, and redesigning so that some capabilities are hidden behind the second action would be confusing and more complicated.
Haptic Touch is still going strong, it's just that... well... it's just a long-press, which has been the "right click" idiom for touchscreens since the beginning.
I don't ever use it, though. And I know it exists. Sometimes I'm bored and long press on an icon on the home screen. I see a little menu pop up, think "huh..." and then leave the menu.
That's a misconception that illustrates exactly why 3D Touch didn't work out on iPhones though. The entire duration of it, most users couldn't figure out that it wasn't built as a long press alternative. You could do a press, a long press, or a hard press. It added an extra element that today Apple has tried to merge with long press since 3D Touch died, but it's still a bit different.
But like... whats the point? One of the biggest problems with UX is that if a user can't see it, it might as well not exist. In that way, even the old 'giant menus of text' still have an advantage over having to learn 2 different alt-presses.
Users are constantly performing non obvious actions. And products constantly build in "hidden" features. I found out this year that the majority of my friends (20s and 30s) don't even know ctrl+t exists for opening a tab. At least with the iPhone, Apple's spent a significant amount of money advertising the functionality so maybe people will know it exists. Maybe they won't! But Apple has the money to try to find new paradigms so.. why not would be a better question. If it doesn't work out, no harm done.
Edit: u/vord, I missed that your message was in reply to the 3D Touch. I thought you meant the new Camera Control. I think the feeling mostly still applies so I will leave this up, but wanted to let you know in case it didn't make sense.
It's unfortunate, because macOS has used little power user bits in the vein of 3D/Haptic touch all over the place for most of its existence to great effect. iOS could stand to learn some things from its older sibling.
Honest question: does anyone intensely desire a revolutionary phone at this point? Aside from improvements to things we already have, such as a better camera or battery life? I kinda feel like smartphones are like bicycles at this point. Sure, some bicycles are better than others, but the basics are more of less set in stone. A new bicycle may be good, but that's hardly exciting.
Linus from LTT had pretty much the same take. This phone isn’t for people who have the iPhone 15. Possibly not even for people with the 14. It’s for people with the iPhone 13 or older (and Android phones of similar age). There have been enough combined yearly improvements that the new package is worth it. This is a sign of a mature product segment, and it’s a good thing.
When Apple upgrades the MacBook Pro from an M2 to an M3 with almost no other changes, we don’t bemoan that it makes no sense for someone with a months old M2 to upgrade. It’s for the people still on intel models, or first gen M1 users who want more power.
Personally I am happy with my 14 pro in purple. I really want usb c, and the action button and camera control would be very nice to have, but there aren’t really meaningful reasons for me to upgrade, and that is fine. Maybe if the 17 pro has actually good color options like the 14 did I will upgrade to that one.
To be honest I upgraded from an 8 to a new 14 this week. Since the release of the 16 it was $600 new from Apple. I feel like the jump isn't worth the additional $400.
Growth focus is the death of all products. Everything has to keep going - Zoom now is a platform. Dropbox is a platform. Iphone obviously has been a platform but they will keep adding on to it until it’s trash. This is how MBA kill products. Unless you have a Jobs to think of whats next, you just keep adding “buttons” because it doesn’t take actual innovation.
Tangentially related, but in the tv show The Bear, super duper chef roast his trainee’s dish because it’s too complicated, tells him to ‘subtract’. He writes this onto a piece of paper and keeps it somewhere visible when preparing dishes.
I want an E-ink phone. It's not exactly revolutionary, but I think it would be a big deal for me personally.
Here you go. If you get it, toss up a review.
I've seen speculation that this is vaporware. Have any gone out to consumers, and are there any reviews by people who have actually used them?
I've only seen that speculation on Reddit, so I take it with a giant grain of salt. They do seem to be posting prototype updates as recently as a few days ago. Most credit cards have pretty good protection, getting a chargeback against a non-delivered product should be pretty trivial.
I've been hovering over that preorder button for a bit, but I'll admit I haven't pulled the trigger yet myself.
There was some… I believe Russian company which circa 2014 came out with a model that had a regular screen in the front and an e-ink backside, defaulting to something like an always-on clock display, but capable of mirroring the regular screen, especially text.
That phone was cool.
Edit: Yotaphone 2
Absolutely. A phone running open linux distribution out of the box featuring today midrange hw and solid sw support.
With an eink screen and replaceable battery and expandable storage. Made from ground up to be easy to repair.
Personally I used Pinephone(which at least tried in some points) as my main phone for about a year about two years ago but in the end the sw was not there yet and the battery life was too bad.
Yeah, I would prefer for companies to keep trying. You never know what will change your life until it happens.
I just want a repairable phone that is affordable, fairly powerful and high refresh rate. The Fairphone comes close, but has underpowered hardware and is way overpriced for me. Something like the pricepoint and design of the Framework laptop would be great: extremely repairable and multiple selling points and up-to-date/hardware with a premium. I think I'm just going to end up buying a new phone around 2027 when they need to have replacable batteries in the EU as that's the part that fails the most quickly.
I want a revolutionary improvement in speech-to-text transcription, but that's an app on my existing phone, not a new phone
so, not really
I do! I've been with Pixel phones since the 1, but I'm switching to Motorola on Black Friday cuz I want a flip phone. I think the technology is super cool and I'm really excited for a smaller phone. I hope the new technology wave is flip and fold phones.
A few weeks ago there was a review of the iPhone 16 that talked about how apple removed features over the years (such as physical buttons and the headphone jack) and now were bringing them back. And I got very interested because "what? they are bringing back the headphone jack?" and I considered buying one. But no, sadly they didn't bring back the headphone jack.
I find the removal of the jack a very user-hostile design decision. They had some lame excuse for it, maybe about waterproofing, as if a usb port was easier to waterproof than a headphone jack. But clearly it was just to sell more wireless headphones. It's even more hostile that they removed it from the iPads.
Well, there's two ways to look at it. That's a negative angle to see it as, the positive would be that "they" knew that wireless headphones had crossed the point where they would be the best option for most people, and removing the headphone jack was a seismic shock to get people on board.
And for that matter, that's effectively my experience. I hadn't really bothered with bluetooth headphones before then, since they were known for being clunky. But I was forced to give it a shot with the iPhone 7, and haven't looked back since; I still have ATH-m50x's collecting dust in the closet because it turns I actually can't stand having a wire tug at my head, despite being objectively better in audio quality than any of my wireless headphones.
I was solidly in the Android camp at the time. I remember making fun of Apple and the Apple sheep who thought this was a good idea. But it also seemed to have a similar effect on the rest of the industry. For a few years, everyone was trying to figure out how to make “true wireless” earbuds like the AirPods. Then they started getting much better than AirPods. And Apple started making AirPods also much better. It effectively spurred some pretty intense competition and lead to some excellent products from many manufacturers.
My last Android device was a galaxy s10e. It had a headphone jack, but I didn’t end up using it at all after the first few months. I got the galaxy buds a few months later. Despite having nice in ear monitors with great sound quality, I used the buds with worse sound quality far more often because they were so much more convenient. Even just not untangling the cable is so much better for my quality of life.
So yeah, in retrospect I agree with you. I can’t say for sure that Apple removed it at the right time, but I am glad someone removed it at some point. It was a turning point for the industry and propelled everyone forward with some great innovation. Even if I went back to Android today, I would not go out of my way to get one with a headphone jack.
If you need to force an innovation by taking away choice, rather than merely adding it, then that doesn't inspire confidence in the innovation, and the subsequent acceptance of it feels more like stockholm syndrome than anything.
"It was controversial when Apple forced automakers to use thumbsticks instead of steering wheels, but I really learned to like the thumbstick."
Never forget the hockey puck. Nor the Magic Mouse 2
Every product that sells, even bad ones, sell because someone has a use case for it, however niche or ubiquitous that use case may be. In that context, I agree that Apple taking away choice is an overall negative for consumers. There’s plenty of reasons why someone would want to continue using wired headphones regardless of how good Bluetooth is. There are people who can just barely afford an iPhone and just want cheap wired earphones they already have laying around. On the other end you have people who already spent $1,000 on fancy wired IEMS, who don’t have any incentive to switch. And plenty of reasons in between.
Howeveeerrr…personally I had a very similar experience to Weldawadyathink. I’ve never been good at managing wired headphones. They always turn into a rats nest in my pocket that I eventually have to spend 5 minutes untangling. I don’t think I ever seriously considered Bluetooth before the headphone jack was taken out, but it’s all I use for mobile devices now. They’re just too dang convenient, and I’ve never really had issues with them falling out like I thought they would.
How much of a nuisance wires can be really becomes clear after getting used to wireless.
I think if for some reason I wanted to switch back to wired on the go, I'd do a few things to make them more practical:
That I think would reduce the nuisance factor of cables adequately.
I mean, I'm not above using Bluetooth, even before they took my headphone jack away.
But also I'm not always on the move, or at least not in a 'wires are a significant nuisance' way. Even when cleaning, if I wanna use my studio headphones I just run the wire under my shirt then tuck the excess in my pocket.
And when plugged in to the stereo I just use an adapter now. I love doing this instead of bluetooth, because bluetooth still cuts out randomly, and also it forces me to leave my phone on the stereo and focus on literally anything else.
Anything that has me touching my phone less is a feature, not a detriment. :)
In my opinion, headphones is a solved problem and I don't want to be forced to use something else.
I don't want wireless headphones.
I want to be able to use any of the thousands of types of nice headphones that have been around for decades. I want to use the same headphones for my laptop and my old walkman and my phone. And I could, until Apple created wireless headphones and decided that it was better to force people to buy those instead of just supporting what has worked for decades.
Sure you can get an adapter, but USB adapters for headphones have problems. For one thing, they tend to disconnect when the device goes to sleep, so you need to unplug and re-plug them.
I have never found a USB adapter for headphones (Qudelix 5K, Apple's dongle) to disconnect when plugged in. When does a phone sleep, anyway?
I use apple's dongle in an iPad that has usb c. As I implied in my earlier post, it's actually more annoying that they took the jack away from the tablets.
My iPhone is an 11 which has a lightning adapter. I have apple headphones with a lightning plug for that (not an adapter). Which reminds me of another annoyance, you can't use those headphones while the phone is charging.
You can charge and use wired headphones at the same time. You just have to use a wireless charger.
If you must use wires, I think I have had my phone charge when using a powered USB-C dock before, but I can't remember if it was an Android handset or an iPhone.
Positive would be leaving the user a choice. Companies know a lot of things that are very definitely good(enough) for most people and are happy to make them reality.
The only good justification for removing the jack is that it restores just that many more cubic millimeters for additional battery. IIRC, some Android phone proved they weren’t a major impediment to waterproofing when Apple had its courageous moment.
My Galaxy S5 was IP67 in 2014, same as the Iphone 7 in 2016, and you just yanked that back plastic off to replace the SIM, SD Card, and battery. It had a headphone jack and a dual-width USB3 (god that was an awful connector). I still miss being able to use my phone as an IR remote.
I dropped that thing in many puddles and it still works (though I killed the battery recently). I still contend that was one of the best phones ever made (terrible USB port aside).
If I recall correctly the argument for removing it from phones had more to do with the amount of physical space the jack occupies internally, which is rather large relative to newer connectors. Really though, to me that just says that it might be time for a new smaller headphone connector, especially when considering the durability/robustness gains that could be had with a new design (¼" jacks have significant wear issues and can snap somewhat easily).
That argument is much more weak on iPads, particularly on the larger models which are about the same physical size as a 13" MacBook Air.
Anecdotally I have never had one of those jacks ever break on me. As far as tube-shaped jacks go they are fairly durable.
They also don’t actually take that much space; they are barely larger than the male end. I seem to remember when they took it out there were critics saying there was a void in the phone.
Fair, my estimations of the jack's fragility may just be a bit of technological paranoia on my part! I've always been a little bit afraid of accidentally applying too much sheer force on a plugged in jack and breaking it off.
Regardless, I think a little circular or roundrect magsafe-type connector with shallow grooves for easy cleaning would be a nice little quality of life uplift over the old jacks.
I completely disagree. The standard TRS connectors are great in both 1/8" (3.5mm) and 1/4" and so a new standard is a terrible idea. I honestly am surprised that you have problems with 1/4", as I find it such a robust and sturdy connector, especially compared to 1/8". I have also used 1/4" connectors a lot and have never had any break on me, it is a standard connector for too many things in the audio world because of how well it works. Also, moving to a different standard would involve replacing so many devices and would make current headphones obsolete. Also, as someone who has worked in the A/V industry, audio engineers are not giving up their 1/4" TRS headphones, and since most of those are actually terminated in 1/8" with a screw on 1/4" adapter, the standard would never change.
Nice catch that I was conflating sizes, in previous posts when referencing 1/4" jacks I was meaning the smaller more common 1/8" or 3.5mm jacks.
The main wear issues I've encountered with headphone jacks haven't been with breaking (as noted in my other comment, that's just a perhaps-irrational fear) but rather with the jacks loosening, getting debris stuck in them, becoming flaky (have to turn the plug a certain way to for it sound right), etc.
That's the main reason why I might want a replacement, which could be designed for higher durability, easier cleaning, and smaller physical size. Being an analog signal, adapters would be easy to make and as cheap as chips so it's not as if traditional headphones would become useless.
https://xkcd.com/927/
I am so with you. A programmable mini magsafe, that could transform by dongle into anything: lightning, 1/8” audio, usb-c, hdmi….
They're definitely trying to make more money with that maneuver. And the same year they removed the headphone jack they also released AirPods. But Apple is the type of company to account for every cubic millimeter inside of their devices. They could have worked with tighter constraints by leaving it in. But I have to assume many hardware engineers for the iPhone were looking forward to its removal.
I have a feeling that I am in the minority here (on Tildes), but I don't need massive innovation on my phone to feel that an upgrade is worth it. I don't upgrade every year or anything, but I am thinking of switching from my 12 mini to the 16.
I use my phone every single day, sometimes for multiple hours, sometimes in stressful situations, sometimes as a critical tool. I want it to work, to work smoothly, to be pleasant to use. Added up over the lifespan of a couple of years, I really don't think the ~$600 price tag is unreasonable, considering how much I use it. I view a phone in the same way as a pair of shoes or a mattress: I spend enough time using any of them that I really don't care about the price as long as the experience is worthwhile.
I used Android about a decade ago before switching to iPhones. I used Arch Linux until about 4 years ago before switching to OSX. In both cases my user experience on the Apple device has been magnitudes more pleasant than what I was using before. Maybe that makes me fanboy material, but so be it — I like Apple devices because they work for me and I don't have to think about them if I don't want to. And to quote Halt and Catch Fire, computers aren't the thing, they're the thing that gets us to thing. That's what I want.
I think this is why Apple stuff has much higher adoption than one might expect within techy (programmers, etc) circles. Logically Linux + Android would be the pairing of choice, but perhaps for many, something they don't need to tinker or fight with outside of work hours is appealing.
This is a significant factor, at least for me. I love my job, I’m still passionate about tech, but I do not want to spend my free time troubleshooting or tinkering with technology. I want it to function reliably, so I can enjoy my life.
Most of my family is in trades, and you know what the last thing the mechanics in my family generally want to do after work is? Fix cars.
Sure, there are some with project cars, but the work on those is generally slow and sporadic and they aren’t relied on daily to get the groceries. It’s the difference between tinkering with a gaming computer and your phone.