It's unfortunate that this survey "did not examine the motivations behind the women's decisions". Without that context, one could look at my wife taking my last name and conclude that she did it...
It's unfortunate that this survey "did not examine the motivations behind the women's decisions". Without that context, one could look at my wife taking my last name and conclude that she did it simply because of wanting to show love and commitment and subconscious submission to me. However, prior to us getting married, we had an open discussion about this topic where we considered all options: Her taking my name, hyphenating both names, me taking her name, or coming up with a new surname entirely. Unfortunately for this anecdote I don't remember the ultimate reason behind her decision because it was a long time ago, but I can guarantee it wasn't due to any notion of tradition. I do sometimes wish I pushed harder for a new surname for both of us because my name is uncommon, hard to spell, even harder to pronounce correctly, and often leads to people making incorrect assumptions.
As an aside, I have often wondered what happens when two people with hyphenated surnames get married. Is there anyone out there with a four-part hyphenated "law office" name?
Yeah they just quoted a professor making extremely far reaching and poorly supported assertions speculating as to the motivations and cultural impact. Academics should really avoid getting over...
It's unfortunate that this survey "did not examine the motivations behind the women's decisions".
Yeah they just quoted a professor making extremely far reaching and poorly supported assertions speculating as to the motivations and cultural impact. Academics should really avoid getting over their skis and making reaches like this. Their title creates a false sense of authority around the claims when those claims are pure supposition.
As for the second part with your question, I think the Spanish tradition makes sense there where they usually go with first name -> paternal family name -> maternal family name and then with each subsequent generation that lop off the previous maternal family name. You could probably just decide which of the family names to drop for the subsequent generation.
Two generations removed. With the Spanish patriarchal tradition, both the wife and the children keep it, and it's lost for the grandchildren. In the English one, it's lost immediately.
Two generations removed. With the Spanish patriarchal tradition, both the wife and the children keep it, and it's lost for the grandchildren. In the English one, it's lost immediately.
In Spain you can also decide if you want the maternal name first, although is not a very popular option. Ik general people use their first name more and more, even in formal ocassions, so they...
In Spain you can also decide if you want the maternal name first, although is not a very popular option. Ik general people use their first name more and more, even in formal ocassions, so they don't care about last names, unless is something ridiculous, hard to spell or nobility.
Several of my friends went for portmanteau surnames where they took the front half of one name and the back half of the other and smooshed them into one new name. Much less clunky than...
Several of my friends went for portmanteau surnames where they took the front half of one name and the back half of the other and smooshed them into one new name. Much less clunky than hyphenating, which I think is often an ugly solution (and definitely would have been in our case). So I really wanted to do this when I got married but mine and my wife's names made either something completely unpronounceable or the surname of a famous serial killer so in the end we just went with my surname because she slightly preferred that over her own.
I have also wondered what happens when two hyphenated people get hitched.
I've heard a suggestion once to drop the name after they hyphen, e.g. Smith-Wesson marrying Bell-Howell would become Smith-Bell. Aparantly it's common practice when choosing a hyphenated name when...
I've heard a suggestion once to drop the name after they hyphen, e.g. Smith-Wesson marrying Bell-Howell would become Smith-Bell. Aparantly it's common practice when choosing a hyphenated name when just one person already has a hyphenated last name, but I have seen at least one person with a double-hyphenated name as well.
I didn't change my name out of laziness. My husband and I also had a discussion about this. His name is very common, while mine is very uncommon, and changing my name, while it would have been...
I didn't change my name out of laziness. My husband and I also had a discussion about this. His name is very common, while mine is very uncommon, and changing my name, while it would have been easy when we filled out the marriage license paperwork, would have been a lot more work after that. I would have had to change my passport, social security, Global Entry, License, professional stuff... The list goes on. He didn't want to change his name, which is totally fair. My last name is hard to pronounce and somewhat longer (at least, longer than his). He wouldn't want to hyphenate and neither of us wanted to come up with a new last name, because, again, laziness.
Husband and I are also both Jewish, and his last name is "more Jewish" than mine is, technically (even though I'm more Jewish than he is according to 23andme). It felt weird at the time to make myself sound more Jewish than I already was as well, when I am very much culturally and not religiously Jewish.
It is funny hearing people call me Mrs. X. I get to correct them and go, actually, that's my mother-in-law! It's mostly the older crowd, and often, husband's family friends/family. We still get holiday cards addressed to mr. and mrs. X, two years later, even though most people know at this point that we didn't change last names. It doesn't bother me, but it does make me laugh at how stubborn some people are when it comes to "tradition"
I can relate to this; I too am lazy about the process it requires. Initially I liked the idea of dropping my last name and taking my husband's since I viewed it as the final departure from a...
I can relate to this; I too am lazy about the process it requires. Initially I liked the idea of dropping my last name and taking my husband's since I viewed it as the final departure from a family I wanted no association with. But due to us getting married during the pandemic, the process to change my name seemed more trouble than it was worth. Time has passed since then and I've grown to appreciate my last name more because it's a unique slavic one and having looked into my genealogy, it gets more fascinating! I guess also it's a new way for reclaiming it too after having despised it for a moment.
I also decided I was too lazy to change my name, in part. We were going to change both our names, probably combine them because the result is cooler than both individual surnames (think 'lionrock'...
I also decided I was too lazy to change my name, in part. We were going to change both our names, probably combine them because the result is cooler than both individual surnames (think 'lionrock' or 'wolfriver'), but it was shaping up to be an enormous pain in the ass.
If I ever get hyperfocused on doing unnecessary clerical work, it might happen. Lol.
Agreed. My wife also took my name but tradition had nothing to do with it. She just likes the name (I often joke she only married me for the name). I'm sure there are plenty who do take their...
Agreed. My wife also took my name but tradition had nothing to do with it. She just likes the name (I often joke she only married me for the name).
I'm sure there are plenty who do take their husbands name as a result of tradition but it would have been great to see them look into the reasons behind the decision.
Very unfortunate, since the motivation is literally the first question raised by the result, at least in my mind. Anecdotally, in my experience it tends to relate to circumstances more often than...
Very unfortunate, since the motivation is literally the first question raised by the result, at least in my mind.
Anecdotally, in my experience it tends to relate to circumstances more often than any adherence to tradition. People with public-facing careers who don't want to confuse their brand by changing names, or with public-facing side hustles they want to keep separate from their day job identity.
Not yet, but soonTM. My wife doesn't have a hyphenated last name, but she has a two last names (or two middle names, depending on how you want to cut it) as she was given both her mother and...
As an aside, I have often wondered what happens when two people with hyphenated surnames get married. Is there anyone out there with a four-part hyphenated "law office" name?
Not yet, but soonTM.
My wife doesn't have a hyphenated last name, but she has a two last names (or two middle names, depending on how you want to cut it) as she was given both her mother and father's surnames as her mother also didn't take her father's last name. So her name structure is FirstName MiddleName MaternalSurname PaternalSurname. We've discussed exchanging last names while also keeping it simple by not changing the actual last name. When we get around to doing so my surname would be added in the "middle" like so: FirstName MiddleName MarriedSurname MaternalSurname PaternalSurname
At the same time I'd be changing my name to add her surnames to mine to form: FirstName MiddleName HerMaternalSurname HerPaternalSurname MyCurrentSurname
This is a low priority for us, but one of those when-we-get-around-to-it items and we've been married for a number of years. Part of the low priority is the fact that I also intend to add an extra middle name or two for humor's sake.
I honestly wish that it was acceptable to start a completely new surname when you get married. Here in California you have the option when getting married to keep your surname, adopt your spouse’s...
I honestly wish that it was acceptable to start a completely new surname when you get married.
Here in California you have the option when getting married to keep your surname, adopt your spouse’s surname, or adopt a hyphenated combination. I don’t care for mine but I wasn’t really part of my husband’s family so I just kept my name.
She is not, just had a proud Englishwoman (with a very English surname) as a mother with a long line of Englishwomen that kept their maiden names in her family. Her mother has the typical three...
She is not, just had a proud Englishwoman (with a very English surname) as a mother with a long line of Englishwomen that kept their maiden names in her family. Her mother has the typical three names, the kids just got four.
I disagree. This is the only time in most societies where people have any sort of choice on what their own name is, and that is by all means a deeply personal choice. Names have meanings.
I disagree. This is the only time in most societies where people have any sort of choice on what their own name is, and that is by all means a deeply personal choice. Names have meanings.
Exactly. The only time in my life I've had any modification to my name was adding a prefix to it because of a terminal degree - but that hardly counts. In contrast, my partner will have the...
Exactly. The only time in my life I've had any modification to my name was adding a prefix to it because of a terminal degree - but that hardly counts.
In contrast, my partner will have the societal expectation thrust upon her to replace her surname with mine when we get married. That's weird. It's a tradition rooted in possession in much of the world, and painting over an important part of one's identity shouldn't be the default IMHO.
I will say that excluding the actual paperwork to change names, which is indeed a pain, it is a bit easier having the same last name as sort of "proof" that you're actually related to that person....
I will say that excluding the actual paperwork to change names, which is indeed a pain, it is a bit easier having the same last name as sort of "proof" that you're actually related to that person. Certainly, legal stuff might require verification of actual marriage. But simple things like - if one of us orders something and the other goes to pick it up, they're less likely to question it if we have the same last name. That's a silly reason to take your partner's name if you want to keep your own name for "keeping my identity" reasons, but it is a benefit beyond the feeling of commitment and such.
My mom ran into issues when Florida started the Real ID driver's license switch. She married my father and took his last name. He died shortly after I was born and she eventually married my dad...
My mom ran into issues when Florida started the Real ID driver's license switch.
She married my father and took his last name. He died shortly after I was born and she eventually married my dad and took his last name.
When she went to get her Real ID license, she needed her original marriage license, his death cert, her new marriage license and essentially a letter of approval from my dad (not really, but really). She really needed 2 bills in her name but none of the bills were in her name at their address because when they moved she stayed to sell off their business and rent out their house when we moved and my dad had came up here to get the restaurant fixed up and ready to open. He was the one here so all the utilities went either in the business name or his name. Since she didn't have any bills in her name, she needed a letter from my dad saying that she lived at that address.
I always joked that she basically needed to ask his permission to get her driver's license. While my dad would never do that to her I always thought of women who did have controlling husbands that wouldn't have signed that letter..
As a side note, it always seemed weird to me that having bills in your name is used for any sort of identification. Don’t companies just put whatever the customer says on the bill?
As a side note, it always seemed weird to me that having bills in your name is used for any sort of identification. Don’t companies just put whatever the customer says on the bill?
Yes can't speak for other countries, but my dad was technically my step father but he met my mum when I was four. I unofficially used his last name until I legally changed it at 18 and by that...
Yes can't speak for other countries, but my dad was technically my step father but he met my mum when I was four. I unofficially used his last name until I legally changed it at 18 and by that time I had bank accounts, national insurance card (social security ID essentially), even a passport in a name which was not on my birth certificate. I guess I managed to get the bank account just by telling them a name then got all my other documents based on that. No idea if you'd get away with that these days!
That’s fascinating, that a bank would just go ahead and open an account without a bunch of proof of ID — I know when I went to open my first bank account (probably 15 years ago) I needed a bunch...
That’s fascinating, that a bank would just go ahead and open an account without a bunch of proof of ID — I know when I went to open my first bank account (probably 15 years ago) I needed a bunch of proof including birth certificate (I was a teenager so didn’t have any licences or bills in my name or anything)
Ironically they also just got it wrong, even on the back of that info — I had a totally different middle name on my card, which happened to have the same starting letter. So when I went to get it fixed, I was basically told they can’t change the name once the account was opened, but they can abridge my middle name to just the letter, which matches. It was surreal to be told that they can’t (or probably more likely, they can but don’t want to) change my name to the correct name, and that I could have just spun up a new identity off the back of some clerical error!
I didn't take my husband's last name and I pick stuff up for him all the time. They even let me pick up his Adderall prescription, I just had to show them my license that had the same address as his.
I didn't take my husband's last name and I pick stuff up for him all the time. They even let me pick up his Adderall prescription, I just had to show them my license that had the same address as his.
My husband picks my adderall up on occasion. It's the same here. He and I don't have the same last name, or even the same insurance policies. But as long as he shows his license and signs the form...
My husband picks my adderall up on occasion. It's the same here. He and I don't have the same last name, or even the same insurance policies. But as long as he shows his license and signs the form stating he knows it's a scheduled drug, he's good to go. I might send him to get it today, too.
My parents each kept their own last names, and they decided to give daughters her name and sons his name. It was never an issue for us. People just tended to assume that we were a blended family...
My parents each kept their own last names, and they decided to give daughters her name and sons his name. It was never an issue for us. People just tended to assume that we were a blended family (e.g., that my dad was my stepdad and my brother was my stepbrother), which is a common enough phenomenon that it never raised any eyebrows.
Now, my partner's mother did change her name when she got married, but because she already had an established career, she continued to use her maiden name specifically within her career and used her husband's name for legal and social purposes. She told me that this was a mistake and, if she could go back and redo things, she would not have changed her legal name.
I used to toy with the idea of my partner and me both changing our names to a new one. However, after going through the process of immigrating to another country and seeing the mountains of paperwork I got to skip solely because my legal name matched my birth certificate, I would now strongly urge everyone to keep their birth name if they think there is any possibility that they will move overseas or undergo some other bureaucratically complex process.
If you live anywhere with any amount of Latin people in it, every government office and business in the area knows to not depend on the last name being the same. Anecdotally, neither me (Latin)...
If you live anywhere with any amount of Latin people in it, every government office and business in the area knows to not depend on the last name being the same. Anecdotally, neither me (Latin) nor my wife (NZ European) have ever had any problems doing the kind of stuff you're mentioning.
Well there's obviously more practical value in sharing a name with your spouse than with your sibling or parent (as an adult), but it is still a little zero-sum. :) I grew up with a different name...
Well there's obviously more practical value in sharing a name with your spouse than with your sibling or parent (as an adult), but it is still a little zero-sum. :)
I grew up with a different name than my mother because she took her second husband's name. I don't think it was inconvenient but now I'm curious to ask. I think she was mostly annoyed that it was difficult to spell.
I can't imagine why I'd want the bother of changing my last name; my spouse and I both kept ours. I have 2 degrees, a registration of birth abroad, and a naturalization certificate in my name, not...
I can't imagine why I'd want the bother of changing my last name; my spouse and I both kept ours. I have 2 degrees, a registration of birth abroad, and a naturalization certificate in my name, not to mention the obvious ones (my birth certificate, ID, passports, SSN, credit cards, and bank accounts). I know that the difficulties of name changes are surmountable (and well worth it in many cases), but if you don't particularly want to change your name why would you take on so much extra work?
The biggest issue I've run into is this type of situation: "Yes, we can board your dogs this weekend. What name are they under?" Me: "Umm... let's try Smith first..." "Nope, nothing under smith."...
The biggest issue I've run into is this type of situation:
"Yes, we can board your dogs this weekend. What name are they under?"
Me: "Umm... let's try Smith first..."
"Nope, nothing under smith."
Me: "Okay, maybe they're under my wife's last name... let's go with Brown."
One tiny perk of sharing a last name is that the above situation is streamlined.
Why not? My wife did not take my last name when we got married. We don't have kids, but are considering it in the future. In all of our discussions, kids are the sole reason she would be...
Why not? My wife did not take my last name when we got married. We don't have kids, but are considering it in the future. In all of our discussions, kids are the sole reason she would be interested in taking my name. In someplace like the US, lots of assumptions are tied to surnames and it's not unreasonable to consider whose name children would take.
We don't want kids, so nope! I wouldn't want to change my name just for that, though, and they probably wouldn't either. So who knows, maybe we'd hyphenate for just the kids, so we'd both have an...
We don't want kids, so nope! I wouldn't want to change my name just for that, though, and they probably wouldn't either. So who knows, maybe we'd hyphenate for just the kids, so we'd both have an easy-to-see connection to them.
My wife and I were in a similar situation; her professional licenses (of which there are many) are in her birth name and I can't imagine how much effort it would take to change that. Our...
My wife and I were in a similar situation; her professional licenses (of which there are many) are in her birth name and I can't imagine how much effort it would take to change that.
Our additional wrinkle is that I'm from an area of the world that doesn't exchange names, so it never crossed my mind that she would take my name.
Aaah, they way I read your comment was you had added your license to your name. Like you had gotten your doctorate and changed your name from "Jane Doe" to "Jane Doe PhD", like it was legally part...
Aaah, they way I read your comment was you had added your license to your name. Like you had gotten your doctorate and changed your name from "Jane Doe" to "Jane Doe PhD", like it was legally part of your name.
Kim Elsesser 79% of the women who responded said changed their last name Women who retained their last name Some background around surnames Ms. Motivation Gender equality
Kim Elsesser
79% of the women who responded said changed their last name
A Pew Research Center survey questioned women who were married to men and found that 79% changed their name to their husband’s. Of the remaining women, 14% kept their surname after saying "I do," and an additional 5% hyphenated their name with their spouse's name. The survey did not analyze the name-changing preferences of same-sex couples.
Women who retained their last name
The researchers found that younger women, white women, and women with a post-graduate degree were the most likely to keep their last name after marriage. In addition, Democratic women were twice as likely as their Republican counterparts to stick with their names post-nuptials.
Some background around surnames
In the United States, our traditions relating to marriage and surnames can be traced back to England. According to University of Illinois law professor Deborah Anthony, surnames were introduced to England with the Norman Conquest of 1066. In a history of marriage and surnames, she explained that surnames became hereditary from parent to child around the fifteenth century.
At that time, women sometimes retained their birth names at marriage, and men sometimes adopted their wives' surnames. "Surnames became closely tied to the concept of property, such that the person with the property was the holder and creator of the family name. That person was more often the man, but not always. As women's property ownership became more severely restricted over time, these diverse surname practices eventually disappeared," Anthony wrote. After women no longer controlled any property, they took their husband’s surname after marriage.
Feminist Lucy Stone was the first U.S. woman to keep her surname when she married in 1855. "A wife should no more take her husband's name than he should hers. My name is my identity and must not be lost," Stone wrote in a letter to her future husband. Although it was legal for Stone to marry without adopting her husband's name, she was denied the right to vote because she refused to register under her husband's name.
As recently as the 1970s, some state laws still required a woman to use her husband's name to vote or obtain a passport. Hawaii was the last state to have a law requiring a woman to assume her husband's name after marriage. The law was reversed in 1976.
Ms.
Also, in the 1970s, the feminist movement was gaining momentum. The prefix "Ms." became a popular way to recognize a woman independently of her marital status. And keeping one's surname after marriage became a symbol of gender equality.
Motivation
Although the Pew survey did not examine the motivations behind women's decisions, prior research has found that, like Lucy Stone, many women choose to keep their names because they feel it's linked to their identity. Other women wish to retain their names for professional reasons. Women who adopt their husbands' names say they want to show love and commitment to their husbands, to become one family unit, and because they feel pressure to adhere to tradition.
Gender equality
Regardless of the reasons, Simon Duncan, a professor in family life at the University of Bradford, told the BBC the name-changing tradition is "quite dangerous." He explained, "It perpetuates the idea that the husband's in authority...reproducing the tradition that the man is the head of the household."
In pursuit of gender equality, certain regions have prohibited women from adopting their husband's names. As of 1981, provincial law in Quebec forbids a woman from taking her husband's surname after marriage. Greece passed a similar law in 1983 requiring women to retain their maiden names after marriage. France, Belgium and the Netherlands all have laws on the books that require surnames to remain the same after marriage. In contrast, some countries, such as Korea, Malaysia, and Spain, lack legal mandates but follow a tradition where women tend to retain their own names after marriage.
Despite the laws and standard practices elsewhere, the tradition of adopting a married name remains robust in the United States. As more women recognize the significance of preserving their identities, societal norms may also evolve here.
That seems insane to preserve gender equality by banning changing names after marriage. Do they really require you to not change your name or do they just mandate that you can't have the option on...
That seems insane to preserve gender equality by banning changing names after marriage. Do they really require you to not change your name or do they just mandate that you can't have the option on your license, etc?
It's unfortunate that this survey "did not examine the motivations behind the women's decisions". Without that context, one could look at my wife taking my last name and conclude that she did it simply because of wanting to show love and commitment and subconscious submission to me. However, prior to us getting married, we had an open discussion about this topic where we considered all options: Her taking my name, hyphenating both names, me taking her name, or coming up with a new surname entirely. Unfortunately for this anecdote I don't remember the ultimate reason behind her decision because it was a long time ago, but I can guarantee it wasn't due to any notion of tradition. I do sometimes wish I pushed harder for a new surname for both of us because my name is uncommon, hard to spell, even harder to pronounce correctly, and often leads to people making incorrect assumptions.
As an aside, I have often wondered what happens when two people with hyphenated surnames get married. Is there anyone out there with a four-part hyphenated "law office" name?
Yeah they just quoted a professor making extremely far reaching and poorly supported assertions speculating as to the motivations and cultural impact. Academics should really avoid getting over their skis and making reaches like this. Their title creates a false sense of authority around the claims when those claims are pure supposition.
As for the second part with your question, I think the Spanish tradition makes sense there where they usually go with first name -> paternal family name -> maternal family name and then with each subsequent generation that lop off the previous maternal family name. You could probably just decide which of the family names to drop for the subsequent generation.
Isn't looping off the maternal family name the same issue as the woman changing her name, just one generation removed?
Two generations removed. With the Spanish patriarchal tradition, both the wife and the children keep it, and it's lost for the grandchildren. In the English one, it's lost immediately.
If you make that the default, but you could just decide in each generation which family name becomes the family name for that generation.
In Spain you can also decide if you want the maternal name first, although is not a very popular option. Ik general people use their first name more and more, even in formal ocassions, so they don't care about last names, unless is something ridiculous, hard to spell or nobility.
Several of my friends went for portmanteau surnames where they took the front half of one name and the back half of the other and smooshed them into one new name. Much less clunky than hyphenating, which I think is often an ugly solution (and definitely would have been in our case). So I really wanted to do this when I got married but mine and my wife's names made either something completely unpronounceable or the surname of a famous serial killer so in the end we just went with my surname because she slightly preferred that over her own.
I have also wondered what happens when two hyphenated people get hitched.
I've heard a suggestion once to drop the name after they hyphen, e.g. Smith-Wesson marrying Bell-Howell would become Smith-Bell. Aparantly it's common practice when choosing a hyphenated name when just one person already has a hyphenated last name, but I have seen at least one person with a double-hyphenated name as well.
I didn't change my name out of laziness. My husband and I also had a discussion about this. His name is very common, while mine is very uncommon, and changing my name, while it would have been easy when we filled out the marriage license paperwork, would have been a lot more work after that. I would have had to change my passport, social security, Global Entry, License, professional stuff... The list goes on. He didn't want to change his name, which is totally fair. My last name is hard to pronounce and somewhat longer (at least, longer than his). He wouldn't want to hyphenate and neither of us wanted to come up with a new last name, because, again, laziness.
Husband and I are also both Jewish, and his last name is "more Jewish" than mine is, technically (even though I'm more Jewish than he is according to 23andme). It felt weird at the time to make myself sound more Jewish than I already was as well, when I am very much culturally and not religiously Jewish.
It is funny hearing people call me Mrs. X. I get to correct them and go, actually, that's my mother-in-law! It's mostly the older crowd, and often, husband's family friends/family. We still get holiday cards addressed to mr. and mrs. X, two years later, even though most people know at this point that we didn't change last names. It doesn't bother me, but it does make me laugh at how stubborn some people are when it comes to "tradition"
I can relate to this; I too am lazy about the process it requires. Initially I liked the idea of dropping my last name and taking my husband's since I viewed it as the final departure from a family I wanted no association with. But due to us getting married during the pandemic, the process to change my name seemed more trouble than it was worth. Time has passed since then and I've grown to appreciate my last name more because it's a unique slavic one and having looked into my genealogy, it gets more fascinating! I guess also it's a new way for reclaiming it too after having despised it for a moment.
I also decided I was too lazy to change my name, in part. We were going to change both our names, probably combine them because the result is cooler than both individual surnames (think 'lionrock' or 'wolfriver'), but it was shaping up to be an enormous pain in the ass.
If I ever get hyperfocused on doing unnecessary clerical work, it might happen. Lol.
My wife didn’t take my last name for the same reasons. It’s had zero impact on our lives.
Agreed. My wife also took my name but tradition had nothing to do with it. She just likes the name (I often joke she only married me for the name).
I'm sure there are plenty who do take their husbands name as a result of tradition but it would have been great to see them look into the reasons behind the decision.
Very unfortunate, since the motivation is literally the first question raised by the result, at least in my mind.
Anecdotally, in my experience it tends to relate to circumstances more often than any adherence to tradition. People with public-facing careers who don't want to confuse their brand by changing names, or with public-facing side hustles they want to keep separate from their day job identity.
Not yet, but soonTM.
My wife doesn't have a hyphenated last name, but she has a two last names (or two middle names, depending on how you want to cut it) as she was given both her mother and father's surnames as her mother also didn't take her father's last name. So her name structure is FirstName MiddleName MaternalSurname PaternalSurname. We've discussed exchanging last names while also keeping it simple by not changing the actual last name. When we get around to doing so my surname would be added in the "middle" like so: FirstName MiddleName MarriedSurname MaternalSurname PaternalSurname
At the same time I'd be changing my name to add her surnames to mine to form: FirstName MiddleName HerMaternalSurname HerPaternalSurname MyCurrentSurname
This is a low priority for us, but one of those when-we-get-around-to-it items and we've been married for a number of years. Part of the low priority is the fact that I also intend to add an extra middle name or two for humor's sake.
I honestly wish that it was acceptable to start a completely new surname when you get married.
Here in California you have the option when getting married to keep your surname, adopt your spouse’s surname, or adopt a hyphenated combination. I don’t care for mine but I wasn’t really part of my husband’s family so I just kept my name.
Is she Latina? That naming convention is common among some Latin American cultures and countries. I'm sure elsewhere too.
She is not, just had a proud Englishwoman (with a very English surname) as a mother with a long line of Englishwomen that kept their maiden names in her family. Her mother has the typical three names, the kids just got four.
Ah very neat! I think different naming conventions are fun as they challenge assumptions about "how things are"
I disagree. This is the only time in most societies where people have any sort of choice on what their own name is, and that is by all means a deeply personal choice. Names have meanings.
The fact that it is the easy answer is something that should be examined, though.
Exactly. The only time in my life I've had any modification to my name was adding a prefix to it because of a terminal degree - but that hardly counts.
In contrast, my partner will have the societal expectation thrust upon her to replace her surname with mine when we get married. That's weird. It's a tradition rooted in possession in much of the world, and painting over an important part of one's identity shouldn't be the default IMHO.
You've hit the nail precisely on the head though. Woman taking man's last name is easy. Man taking woman's last name is less easy. Why?
Legacy code.
I know not really that, but inertia and tradition is a hell of a drug. Otherwise maybe we would have stopped circumcising years ago.
Why didn't he take her name?
I will say that excluding the actual paperwork to change names, which is indeed a pain, it is a bit easier having the same last name as sort of "proof" that you're actually related to that person. Certainly, legal stuff might require verification of actual marriage. But simple things like - if one of us orders something and the other goes to pick it up, they're less likely to question it if we have the same last name. That's a silly reason to take your partner's name if you want to keep your own name for "keeping my identity" reasons, but it is a benefit beyond the feeling of commitment and such.
My mom ran into issues when Florida started the Real ID driver's license switch.
She married my father and took his last name. He died shortly after I was born and she eventually married my dad and took his last name.
When she went to get her Real ID license, she needed her original marriage license, his death cert, her new marriage license and essentially a letter of approval from my dad (not really, but really). She really needed 2 bills in her name but none of the bills were in her name at their address because when they moved she stayed to sell off their business and rent out their house when we moved and my dad had came up here to get the restaurant fixed up and ready to open. He was the one here so all the utilities went either in the business name or his name. Since she didn't have any bills in her name, she needed a letter from my dad saying that she lived at that address.
I always joked that she basically needed to ask his permission to get her driver's license. While my dad would never do that to her I always thought of women who did have controlling husbands that wouldn't have signed that letter..
As a side note, it always seemed weird to me that having bills in your name is used for any sort of identification. Don’t companies just put whatever the customer says on the bill?
Yes can't speak for other countries, but my dad was technically my step father but he met my mum when I was four. I unofficially used his last name until I legally changed it at 18 and by that time I had bank accounts, national insurance card (social security ID essentially), even a passport in a name which was not on my birth certificate. I guess I managed to get the bank account just by telling them a name then got all my other documents based on that. No idea if you'd get away with that these days!
That’s fascinating, that a bank would just go ahead and open an account without a bunch of proof of ID — I know when I went to open my first bank account (probably 15 years ago) I needed a bunch of proof including birth certificate (I was a teenager so didn’t have any licences or bills in my name or anything)
Ironically they also just got it wrong, even on the back of that info — I had a totally different middle name on my card, which happened to have the same starting letter. So when I went to get it fixed, I was basically told they can’t change the name once the account was opened, but they can abridge my middle name to just the letter, which matches. It was surreal to be told that they can’t (or probably more likely, they can but don’t want to) change my name to the correct name, and that I could have just spun up a new identity off the back of some clerical error!
I didn't take my husband's last name and I pick stuff up for him all the time. They even let me pick up his Adderall prescription, I just had to show them my license that had the same address as his.
My husband picks my adderall up on occasion. It's the same here. He and I don't have the same last name, or even the same insurance policies. But as long as he shows his license and signs the form stating he knows it's a scheduled drug, he's good to go. I might send him to get it today, too.
My parents each kept their own last names, and they decided to give daughters her name and sons his name. It was never an issue for us. People just tended to assume that we were a blended family (e.g., that my dad was my stepdad and my brother was my stepbrother), which is a common enough phenomenon that it never raised any eyebrows.
Now, my partner's mother did change her name when she got married, but because she already had an established career, she continued to use her maiden name specifically within her career and used her husband's name for legal and social purposes. She told me that this was a mistake and, if she could go back and redo things, she would not have changed her legal name.
I used to toy with the idea of my partner and me both changing our names to a new one. However, after going through the process of immigrating to another country and seeing the mountains of paperwork I got to skip solely because my legal name matched my birth certificate, I would now strongly urge everyone to keep their birth name if they think there is any possibility that they will move overseas or undergo some other bureaucratically complex process.
If you live anywhere with any amount of Latin people in it, every government office and business in the area knows to not depend on the last name being the same. Anecdotally, neither me (Latin) nor my wife (NZ European) have ever had any problems doing the kind of stuff you're mentioning.
Well there's obviously more practical value in sharing a name with your spouse than with your sibling or parent (as an adult), but it is still a little zero-sum. :)
I grew up with a different name than my mother because she took her second husband's name. I don't think it was inconvenient but now I'm curious to ask. I think she was mostly annoyed that it was difficult to spell.
I can't imagine why I'd want the bother of changing my last name; my spouse and I both kept ours. I have 2 degrees, a registration of birth abroad, and a naturalization certificate in my name, not to mention the obvious ones (my birth certificate, ID, passports, SSN, credit cards, and bank accounts). I know that the difficulties of name changes are surmountable (and well worth it in many cases), but if you don't particularly want to change your name why would you take on so much extra work?
The biggest issue I've run into is this type of situation:
"Yes, we can board your dogs this weekend. What name are they under?"
Me: "Umm... let's try Smith first..."
"Nope, nothing under smith."
Me: "Okay, maybe they're under my wife's last name... let's go with Brown."
One tiny perk of sharing a last name is that the above situation is streamlined.
Have you guys discussed if you were to have kids who's last name they would take
Not everyone wants kids, nor can have kids. They shouldn't factor into the equation of whether or not you change your name.
Why not? My wife did not take my last name when we got married. We don't have kids, but are considering it in the future. In all of our discussions, kids are the sole reason she would be interested in taking my name. In someplace like the US, lots of assumptions are tied to surnames and it's not unreasonable to consider whose name children would take.
We don't want kids, so nope! I wouldn't want to change my name just for that, though, and they probably wouldn't either. So who knows, maybe we'd hyphenate for just the kids, so we'd both have an easy-to-see connection to them.
I had a professional license in my birth name. I didn't consider changing, simply to avoid paperwork. It's worked out fine.
My wife and I were in a similar situation; her professional licenses (of which there are many) are in her birth name and I can't imagine how much effort it would take to change that.
Our additional wrinkle is that I'm from an area of the world that doesn't exchange names, so it never crossed my mind that she would take my name.
Can you explain this more? Professional license in your name?
I'm a lawyer. Changing my name with the bar association, firm websites, effects on professional reputation, marketing etc would be a pain at best.
Aaah, they way I read your comment was you had added your license to your name. Like you had gotten your doctorate and changed your name from "Jane Doe" to "Jane Doe PhD", like it was legally part of your name.
I think the way I wrote it is correct usage but perhaps saying under might have been more clear.
Nah, rereading it, it makes sense. Brain fart on my part
Kim Elsesser
79% of the women who responded said changed their last name
Women who retained their last name
Some background around surnames
Ms.
Motivation
Gender equality
That seems insane to preserve gender equality by banning changing names after marriage. Do they really require you to not change your name or do they just mandate that you can't have the option on your license, etc?