Struggling in my relationship
Preface: Sorry if this isn't the place, and if I'm cagey on some specifics. Also sorry for the length, this turned out a lot longer than I anticipated.
My partner and I have been together for nearly 8 years at this point. This was my first serious, long-term committed relationship; every other one I'd had was short-lived (<3 months) and I hadn't exactly had a lot of them. Maybe this is why I was blind to the cracks until things got unavoidable.
It started off strong and passionate of course, and things moved rather quickly. We (they, I'm not on the title) bought a house and we were expecting a child within a year. I should have kept things slower, thought with my head instead of blindly following my heart. I'd been very lonely for a very long time. I was happy those first few years, even if in hindsight the cracks were beginning to show. Even before baby came along, intimacy fell off a cliff. I had many talks about this with them, which led nowhere much really. The rest of the relationship still felt solid to me though. I pressed on.
In the beginning, they had a better job than I did. I earned far less. Luckily an opportunity came up for me to finish my schooling and further my career, and I put a lot of work into achieving just that. Now things have changed with that, and I feel like we could be doing well together... If it weren't for the financial instability I feel they bring. I'd never been great with money, but my partner's father took me under his wing and taught me a lot of financial literacy. I became adept at putting together spreadsheets and managing our finances. Our first major crisis we overcame together through being very fiscally conservative and digging our way out. We also had several windfalls that helped us out. Then... another crisis, again because of overspending on their end. We pulled from our IRAs in order to stay afloat, with promises to do better. Then... another crisis. Again. Same reasons. We put together a loan against the home's equity. More promises.
We are again heading to a crisis. We are out of windfalls and options and frankly I'm exhausted.
Finally, parenting and housekeeping. I've always loved how my partner cares so much for their children (from a prior relationship) as well as ours. They have a way of making magical moments which I envy. This is contrasted by their complete inability to parent effectively. There's no consequences, no expectations, no boundaries, and it's infuriating. Initially it wasn't quite that bad, and I felt I had equal say in parenting. Over the years, that's eroded to my partner viewing me as authoritarian and domineering. The kids know they'll get their way with them so why would they ever come to me first?
Maybe it was the extra time during COVID but they also put more effort into housekeeping early on as well. Now I feel it mostly falls on my shoulders, and my will to clean and keep up is murdered by the fact that within hours it's a mess again. It isn't helped by the fact that my partner is a hoarder. I have to gut things from the house in secret. I haven't seen the corners of my walls in ages. I spent a week while they were away cleaning the home top to bottom last year. Within a day it looked like a bomb went off.
These are all things I've tried discussing with them, multiple times, over the years. I mostly get brushed off, or (what I feel now are) empty promises. Most infuriating to me is "I don't know what you want me to say." I want you to say what's in your heart, what you feel! Don't tell me something you think I want to hear, be honest.
I feel I know where this is going, I don't want to fall in the same trap I see many couples are in where it's clearly over and yet they keep moving along. We're not married, a clean break is reasonable, I know my partner can be mature about things because their relationship with their ex is amazingly calm and chill.
I'm terrified in a way of being alone again.
I don't really know where to turn for more perspective. I've already talked with my sister, and a close co-worker who is going through some of the same feelings I am. Those conversations have been very helpful. Recently, what really put things in stark contrast was the other day when my partner's father asked "So is everything ok between you two?" If he went out and asked, it means it's really obvious things are not ok.
I've been fantasizing a lot lately about what a split would be like. Making plans for where to go, and figuring out how to reconcile things like accounts, items, and debts. Worst of all I've been fantasizing about being with other people; the intimacy and passions has been gone between us for a long time. The last time my partner initiated anything between us was a year ago, and I don't even remember the time before that. Everything feels so wrong and unsatisfactory.
I told them yesterday we need a frank talk, and not through text this time - their preferred method of communication with me for a while now... But I have no idea when we even have time for that away from the kids.
Closing thought: I don't want to feel like I've pre-determined my outcome here. I feel I've done what I can though, to make my own feelings clear. Thank you for any thoughts.
I'm going to do the counter cultural thing here and phrase my thoughts from the context of "not separating", not because I believe it's wrong (it's not) and not because you're not legally married (you are common law) and not because it'll be bad for the kids (imho it usually is independent of how it affects the kids). It's only because I assume everywhere you go you will be advised to ditch the dead weight, and you have no shortage of support on the lawyer up hit the gym side of how this works.
caveats and disclaimer
Caveat 1: the well-being of your children are paramount here; if they are harmed by you staying and enabling then you have the duty to leave.Caveat 2: if you are experiencing thoughts of self harm or violence then you also have the duty to at minimum take a break.
With the disclaimers out of the way, I'll offer my humble thoughts on if you were to stay what might help, or help feel less bad. Feel free to use me as a rubber ducky and "but no ---" me, I won't be offended or think less of you. You sound like you're lonely in where we should feel most secure and connected, and you're in pain. I've fared far worse with less challenges, so I would understand if you tell me I'm just not understanding.
Support
You've done well to share with your sister, and others. Your putting thoughts down here is very good. Your partner's father sounds like an excellent candidate: he was already a mentor about financial things, and he might have insights on why your partner is like this with money. He'll be biased, for sure, but he also understands you're a positive figure in the life of his daughter and his grandchildren. Take him up on it, invite him over, go out on a camping trip or something just the two of you, get some male bonding and moments of adult sanity. Sometimes when we recharge from where there isn't a problem, we still feel more energized to deal with where there is a problem. Another source of support could be speaking to a paid person, assuming you have employee health benefits. A regular professional is good, but a rotating set of rando phone "support people" could also be good if you only expect them to be rubber duckies and know you can safely exit the conversation when they talk out of their butts.
finances
What's the underlying reason for why they are this way with money? You don't have to share with us, but if there are mental health challenges or addiction or spending is how they deal with traumatic grief or whatever, that might need to be addressed. Is this perhaps possibly temporary?
Is your partner amenable to living with you holding all the financial reins? Are they working full time ? A third party can be used to draft an agreement such that it is fair and non abusive: eg, all salary money goes into joint locked accounts, all bills paid from that pot, but discretionary spending is hard capped at say $500/month for both of you, and all receipts and spending are "audited" by the two of you to ensure you're not buying $200 worth of milk, returning them then spending it on mobile app purchases. If your partner does not want to voluntarily receive help this way, it might be time to prioritize your child's financial future by leaving.
I would definitely approach partner's father on advice about worse case scenario financial protection for your child: and speak to a family lawyer as well. I'm assuming you make payments on the home even if you're not on title. In the event that your family loses the home, what options do you have to recoup portions of the sale? Can you financially seperate in a way that ensure at least your child will be provided for. If you have any sort of relationship with the other childrens' father, maybe get partner's dad to bring him in for a worse case planning joint session.
partner as resource
Our partners are our greatest asset, even if sometimes it can feel like they're our greatest and only source of stress. It can feel like, my life is excellent were it not for my partner's problems.
We can't compare our lives with/out partner apples or oranges. I mean, compare (1) keep all the positive variables of current living situation, current level of companionship, current level of child care availability, pet care etc to (2) everything positive sans partner's difficulties. We have to compare everything we have now, to loneliness, to being dating again, the complications from future partners, driving your kid to ex, court dates, juggling new relationships and if they get along with child, moving, etc.
It works for some people who don't ever want to be in another relationship again. But it sounds like you will want to be. Life can get way more complex very quickly when new people are added to the mix. Is your partner likely to find someone else and have more kids if you split? That's part of the consideration for your child too.
your kid and the other children
Anyway, that's wonderful you remember the magical moments they shared with the kids. Sometimes as a pair you need to negotiate strengthens and make up each others' deficits. Say you would never be the type to make cupcakes together, execute a birthday to remember, or plan a holiday feast: they might, so your offer in the bargain is cleaning up the aftermath. The home will always be messy perhaps, but is it dirty and dangerous for health, or is it a place where the children feel free to experience life and celebrate each other and use up the resources and know their new hobby obsessions are supported? There are perfectly clean homes where the children always walk softly, always whisper, and the couch is never to be sat on and the perfect doilies never touched, where the parents sit on millions but the children eat expired beans bought on sale. (There are also homes where it's full of garbage but no child is ever allowed to touch anything either. Bad bad bad.)
How is your child doing? Is your child better served by you guys working on it, or will they fare better even with a move, being driven back and forth, having less time with step-siblings, your attention split and distracted by new romances and potentially added step-siblings or new bio kids? Is your child picking up on the sour atmosphere and having to take on the roles of parenting emotionally immature parent(s)?
Replying to you since you're top comment, and one who really highlighted alternatives.
Yesterday evening was tough. I detailed it in another top level comment. After that text chain, nothing got addressed in person because they went to bed immediately after coming home from the oldest child's practice. I still got up, made everyone breakfast and lunch in the morning, and got their bags ready. It's routine by now.
Not feeling so good.
I'd like to talk about what you brought up as well. I appreciate your views, always have had a lot of respect for you.
This is something we'd already been planning for the future. I fear it's a bit late now. My partner's attitude towards money is something they're very much aware of; it was a constant issue in their previous relationship as well. Nothing new.
The more I think on it, the more it's apparent that they have a shopping addiction. They've been on home shopping network style streams for years and our account is a constant list of paypal and affirm purchases. I use neither.
With some introspection last night I really feel it is an addiction of sorts. We used to focus on each other, spend our evenings crafting together and watching shows and movies. As the kids got older and spent more time with us instead of their father, we had less of this time for each other. It's slowly morphed into our new norm: they spend their time watching a show on a laptop, with a shopping stream playing alongside; I spend my time with either reading or gaming. We don't spend any time together.
This is what I'm most worried about. I am the product of an extremely toxic divorce. I overcame all of that, and had plenty of mental health issues stemming from it which I worked through. I never wanted my child to go through that.
This was how it was for some time. Things kept piling up, and nothing got taken out. Places in the home fell into disrepair, and we never had money (or time) to get them fixed. It's slowly morphing into a health hazard; I want to take drastic action. I won't have time for that for many months though.
Ah yes my childhood. My father was this way. My mother was a depressed hoarder. She's better now, my father isn't.
They need so much better structure and support. Examples:
At age 6 they still sleep in our bed. My partner never made an effort (I did) to get them to sleep in their own room. Now that room is for one of the older children and we have no spare space.
They are given unrestricted access to a device/youtube if I'm not around. If I am and try to change that, my child just goes to my partner to get it changed.
They are constantly fed snacks and candies, and despite me trying to push meals and healthier foods they know they can just run to my partner to change it.
Edit: I acknowledge this is a lot of negativity. I'm having a hard time seeing the positives at this moment.
Hey man, if we can't let it all out with an alt account when can we, amirite. I can see that everyone on Tildes super care about you and these hurdles, and we're all here for you in these small ways. If the thread goes old, still reply and add more or come back and keep chatting, for as long as you find it helpful. Don't worry about keeping it light for our sake: the thread is tagged, much like our monthly mental health one, and for example I don't check it when I'm not doing well enough to do so.
I don't have professional insights, but I do have experience with leaning heavily into something as an escape from having to be in a situation where I know I'm supposed to do something or I know more is expected of me, but I feel like I don't have the resources within myself to be able to tackle them. It sounds like buying stuff hits that high for your partner: the more they spend the more they want to hide, and they spend as a way to hide from dealing with the fallout of having spent that money.
The intimacy falling away, not having the internal resources to clean up, avoiding confrontation with children and just giving in, seem to be co-symptoms of not knowing how to deal with feeling overwhelmed and just retreating into the endorphins of buying stuff.
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like they want to address it with you together. I know you said you're busy and of course you need healthy outlets and have your emotions validated as well, so if I don't hear back I'll assume you're working it out, and I'm cheering for you
One small suggestion if you do get a chance to talk: sometimes (if things aren't too terrible) when I'm having a hard talk, I specifically try to sit side by side instead of right in front. I try to have our knees touch, and I ask if they would like to hold hands, and if there's a pause I ask if they would like a hug. Talks are easier after we have a hug.
Your situation sounds a lot more dire, though, so all I will say further is that we're in your corner, good job still functioning and going to work, and your kids are lucky to have you with them.
I know they won't. It was abundantly clear in communication yesterday. All they focused on was the financials, telling me that's what we need to fix because for them, it's most important.
Not us. In a way I see their point - trying to give stability for the kids... However in my eyes it's just a loveless marriage at that point, which my partner hated about their own parents marriage. Yet, here we are. I refuse to be in that kind of relationship.
I'm so sorry, OP. I wish they had been able to reconnect as partners, as someone who loves you and want the best for you and your family.
When you have a breather, your company EAP might have financial advisors you can speak with about debt from common law partner for your area. I would begin with seperation of finances: sometimes people want to talk when they feel it's finally necessary. At the minimum you can keep the lights on and the water from being shut off if they don't have access to it. And maybe maybe maybe when your partner comes out of the "must fuel addiction" funk, they'll be ready to talk. It does look dire, and desperation manipulative hoovering is also a thing.
I see your membership badge; my sympathies. Sometimes we jump into relationships that aren't the greatest because we don't know what healthy looks like, because the initial rush is so surreal we convince ourselves it's the missing piece we longed for, and maybe because we just accept our childhood as an unhealthy baseline.
Yesterday was mostly radio silence. This morning I tried at least cuddling. Nothing was given back, just stonewalling. I asked them about counseling, they said "No, counseling sucked I'm never doing it again." I asked about working on anything else alongside the money, which is all they're focused on right now. Nothing.
"If I have to fix the money by myself then that's what I'll do."
That super sucks.
It might be too soon, but try to track a few things for the coming week:
Are you eating okay and drinking water and getting some sleep?
How are you feeling, do you feel less lost, burned out and confused, or are you gaining some insights and more clarity and direction?
Can you find a minute or two to just enjoy a long shower, or slowly sip a favourite hot autumn beverage, or do a slow breathing exercise?
It probably feels awful to get nothing back. But I hope you're finding strength from within yourself and giving yourself a big big pat on the shoulder and a good hug.
I'm feeling it most when I need to sleep. I've been having trouble sleeping the last few months - I thought it was stress from a new job but it's likely compounded by the other feelings I'm having. I've been severely depressed before, to the point of staring into the abyss a few times. I can feel myself sliding and creeping towards that. I never, ever want to return to that place.
I'm going to focus on finding a way forward now. I feel I have my answers, if nothing changes in my partners communication, tone, and intention. I feel I've been clear, direct, and purposeful.
Do you have the time and will for jogging/walking/cycling? I find that they help me passively feel better and also help me sleep. It also have me an excuse to get away from the epicenter of my misery when I was going through something a little like this.
I usually do a lot of cycling! Lately I haven't had the time, will, or energy - and with the weather turning, it's becoming harder to do any of that.
If not now, due to finances, consider counseling for yourself. Marriage counseling isn't always about "saving" a relationship anyway though usually that's why people go; individual counseling may help you manage the fallout, separation, navigating the co-parenting relationship as needed, and just your emotions. It can help to have someone with expert knowledge validate your need to take the right steps for you and not sacrifice everything for a partner or kids or whomever.
In the meantime movement is definitely great. If you can't get outside to do the thing you love consider even indoor walking or the stairs at work or whatever works for you.
I appreciate your perspective. It is very hard to find relationship advice online that optimizes for keeping the relationship. Which is usually the outcome people want to achieve. Rather, it becomes a classification game based off the info that is shared by someone really fed up.
Well, I was going to take the time to go through responses tonight and discuss things - sorry, I have a hectic work day - fate seems to have forced a hand though.
We maxed out a card, which prompted my partner to a ask (through text, since they're out) what was up. I explained this is exactly what I tried warning them about weeks and days ago. They blamed me for not managing the money well enough. I laid my feelings bare.
I probably didn't phrase things perfectly. I probably didn't do everything right. Nobody can. I did my best to say what I felt.
Their response - they're pissed of course, but they also said we can't work things out until the debt issues are solved... I responded that no, it was all tied up together.
I didn't expect it to go as the book says, "slowly, and then all at once".
You may not have done everything right, but you told your partner how you felt and asserted yourself, and that's a good first step. It is not your fault that the money situation got out of hand. You are clearly going out of your way to try to keep things working, and it sounds like you may be the only one. You are right, the debt issues and the other issues are tied together, and fixing just the debt will be temporary until it's an issue again. Keep advocating for yourself and for your kid. Hang in there.
This clarified something for me, they don't see anything involving money to be a shared responsibility. I wonder if this may be carrying into the other things you've brought up.
Perhaps they see housework as your thing, this happens to women all the time. The person who cares about the housework does most or all of the housework, at least in part because they have the ability to see what needs to be done. It's not okay that this happens, but it's pretty common.
I'm not clear on how much their ex is involved with the kids, even if they're not in the picture the past might be driving your partner's parenting behavior.
I apologize if I've missed you saying you already had a counseling discussion. Counseling is a step in the right direction if you really do want to stay together, as well as a source of feeling like you've done everything you can do if things end up not working out. You can't know what's going on in someone else's mind unless they tell you, a trained person is going to be good at asking the right questions to draw out miscommunications and misunderstandings.
If you're fantasizing about ending things, that's a pretty big sign things should end imo. At bare minimum, you need professional relationship counseling. And I think you owe it to your partner to communicate to them clearly that you're so close to the end of your rope. One of the biggest pain points from my own divorce was that my partner completely blindsided me with it and never brought up the obvious-in-retrospect problems with our relationship until she asked for a divorce.
I don't ultimately think the fact that you aren't legally married is gonna matter that much fwiw -- and I say this as someone currently going through the process of divorce myself. The fact that you apparently have kids together is going to make a "clean break" much harder than the legal institution of marriage would. I hope you don't own any shared property -- when they're present, kids and home ownership are the two hardest things to handle when breaking up a serious relationship like this, and lacking a legal marriage is not gonna make that easier.
You're absolutely right and it's something I have already stated, earlier this month even. I'll need to reiterate it.
Of course you're right about the kids. We share some debts but I have no stake in the property(ies). I don't really even care about that at this point.
Note on discussion, some people receive information differently, and might assume the partner is just angry or said in the heat of the moment. When you reiterate it, make sure they understand this is something persistently on your mind and not just when day is bad.
If they're not good at introspection in general, it might be difficult to talk through the next steps of "this is not sustainable, something has to change" meaning they have to change instead of passively have weather happen to them.
This is an important point. OP, the mention that your partner prefers to communicate over text, to me, sounds like the pressure of a face to face discussion is too much.
I've been to therapy with somebody whose anxiety around having a conversation about expectations, shared responsibility (to things, each other) began with identifying their anxiety as something that I needed to appreciate and navigate.
As frustrating as that was for me to acknowledge that something I perceived as deficiency ("Why is this a thing? Why can't you just try harder to pick up after yourself?"), acknowledging that this barrier existed for them and committing to working through an issue on terms that respected their anxiety was very important.
I'm not sure whether the hoarding, the texting or the financial issues are the result of something like this, but it sounds to me like avoidance of a more foundational issue. If they're able to explore that outloud with you in a mediated session, it could help bring you closer together.
Good luck. Marriage isn't always easy but when I think of the alternative, I certainly prefer it.
I just want to add to what sparksbet said above. I know you said you've said a lot to your partner already, but in case this would be insightful to you:
Speaking from experience, sometimes people (like me) just don't get it, and don't pick up on clues, can't read the situations -- whatever you want to call it. Then, the other person goes ballistic one day, and only then do people like me see how big of a deal it's been -- but not before the ballistics. I have often thought in my head (and sometimes verbalized -- but that usually just sparks more fire), "I wish I knew. I wish you said it more explicitly." Like, I feel like people like me need an explicit description of where things are headed. Anything like "I am feeling [negative feelings] right now because of [circumstances, state; you keep doing X; you keep ignoring X]. I'm telling you, if things continue like this, in [time frame], I am going to (be furious / leave / take Y action)."
I'm not guaranteeing this will help, but it might. If the other side genuinely cares, they'll take it seriously, and take action, or at least want to fix it, even if they don't know how. And, if they want to, but don't know how, you can offer solutions or plans that you both can agree to.
I'd add that you should be as clear as you possibly can be. Saying "I'm scared [or whatever feeling] because I've been fantasizing about what my life would be like if we ended things. I don't want to do that. But something has to change because clearly this is not sustainable for me."
Also, it's pretty normal for someone to respond to this sort of thing pretty negatively. If you can, try to have the space to let them respond poorly, and not take it personally or give it too much stock. "Well if you want to leave then leave!!!" as a defensive response is very normal, very expected, and shouldn't be taken for anything other than the monkey-brain self-preservation response that it is.
An update for those keeping tabs here.
I finally got to have a sit down talk with my partner, though it felt like twisting their arm to do so. I started off restating my core issue: that I feel our connection, our relationship, is falling or has fallen apart and we need to work to rebuild it. I figured that everything else is secondary to that.
Main takeaways were that they feel I've been "weird" and ignoring them for the last two weeks. The last time I showed affection was when I posted about cuddling, the last time I said "I love you" it was ignored. They also stated that they felt they hadn't changed at all over the last 8 years we've been together, I tried pointing out how much has changed though. They stated kids growing up changes things; I stated that doesn't mean we need to ignore our relationship as a couple. They stated they felt I was putting it all on them; I said I've been trying to point out issues and offer solutions for ages to no avail, and they don't try to solve anything I talk about unless it involves money. They stated with regards to affection that they "just aren't like that" - ignoring the near complete 180 over the years in how they show affection.
Overall it felt like a lot of walls and deflection. I feel these are defenses to make it easier to justify a break - making it seem less their fault and more mine in their eyes. This is eerily similar to the kinds of stories I got about their Ex who, in my experience, is actually a quite decent person though sometimes completely oblivious to the obvious. There was never any anger there, and there isn't really any anger here either.
I've heard it said the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. I don't really feel sad, or angry; I don't hate them, I don't despise them. I don't really know what I feel right now except stress.
I do feel my path forward has been made clearer. I told my partner that I'd love to see an effort to change things over the next year. I still love them, I said (nevermind that they didn't say it back) and I want to give them a way to return to a place of love. That seemed to go nowhere.
I talked about how we'd be splitting our finances again immediately. I'm going to open a bank account and move my deposits there asap. I already took myself off the authorized user lists of the cards she added me onto. I've been having a lot of talks about this with a good friend of mine who recently went through a similar separation and they've been guiding me on next steps.
I'm very grateful to the friends and family I have been able to lean on during this time, and for you here and your perspectives and ideas. I hope I bring better news next time.
Thanks for the update. I'm glad they were finally willing to sit down and talk to you, but it sounds like it was a really frustrating conversation in some ways. I think the three most important skills I've learned for long-term relationships are 1) listening and empathizing with the other person's point of view, 2) taking accountability, and 3) apologizing meaningfully. It's hard to smush two lives together, and being flexible and communicating clearly are really important.
I'm not sure if your partner is being willfully inflexible and unwilling to take responsibility, or else is in such a difficult place and mental state that they don't have the bandwidth to add more things to worry about, but this sounds like the sort of situation that needs a therapist or other mediator to help. Although if they've done therapy before and found that the therapist was never siding with them, that might mean that nothing would change in this situation, either, but it seems that there are some real hurdles for your partner that are difficult for them to navigate. I hope that they do continue to open up and listen, and that you're able to get things working a little more smoothly. (I think of relationships like driving a giant boat - everyone on board is a team to make sure the boat moves where they want it to. It isn't helpful to parcel out specific blame a lot of the time, and if the boat isn't moving in the right direction, it's a collective team failure. It doesn't seem like your partner is willing to take responsibility for their role in the subpar navigation, but I feel like it's a necessary step. You can't be the only reason the boat isn't moving properly, especially if you're the only one paying close attention!)
To further the boat analogy, if there are two in a row boat and both claim they're rowing, but only one is actually putting the oar in the water, the boat turns around in a circle going nowhere. Even a boat where only one person sits while the other row both oars will go slowly in any direction.
@ThrowawayForMe - cheep_cheep already said what I was going to say. Good job trying to have that conversation again, good job expressing that you still love them and leaving the door open and not being angry, plus excellent job starting that financial delineation.
Will again plug free counselling via any employee assistance programs you might have. And check out the recent Honk your honk thread on safe venting. I prefer All You Can Sing karaoke private room for an afternoon: lyric writers' poetry + detachment/depersonalization + nostalgia is my therapy of choice.
Thank you for both your kind words (@cheep_cheep in see you don't see this). The boat analogy is such a great way to look at it and I really feel like I've been the main one paddling for a while now. Note I don't say only one... It gets exhausting feeling like I'm the one putting in most of the effort though.
I'll look into counseling, I believe I should have resources available. I'm lucky I have good friends and family to rely on and talk to. It's been invaluable. I know I've said enough when I don't want to tell anyone anything more and instead want time to process things myself.
I'm taking some time to go out with friends this weekend and spend more time with my son. It'll be good for me. Thanks everyone, I'll keep putting updates in here for major things or even just to talk about difficulties.
One thought I've been having (well, two connected thoughts) is dealing with loneliness again and what I'll feel if/when my partner starts dating again in the future. Statistically they are far more likely to find someone else in any given time frame than I am, and I know it's a stupid and useless thought, but it does cross my mind.
Loneliness is what I've been feeling a lot of already anyways, that I can handle and mitigate to an extent. The other feeling I have not handled well historically.
Thanks for sharing. It's great that you're taking time for yourself and thinking ahead, and being honest with yourself about your feelings.
I mentioned before that I stayed in an abusive and toxic relationship far longer than I should have. I was worried about some of the same feelings you are now - loneliness and a partner's post relationship love life. I was right about those...but there were so many other emotions that I didn't expect and were much more salient. The primary one I felt, immediately the morning I woke up alone in my own apartment for the first time, was intense and seething rage! I totally did not expect it. I was violently pissed off that I had allowed my ex to treat me so terribly, and angry at the time and energy and emotions I had wasted on him. And ultimately I was so, SO much happier leaving. In many ways, it's easier to feel lonely on your own, with your own pleasant and constant company, than to be around someone who mistreats you and makes you feel terrible. There will be other people out there who can fill that void, especially friends, who can help rebuild your sense of normalcy and calm, especially after so many crises. If you'll be co-parenting, you can't leave your partner's life entirely, but you have much less responsibility and day-to-day involvement in those crises, and you get a lot of autonomy and freedom back - freedom in your feelings and actions, and free to have your own conceptualization of yourself. Those are really powerful, and I had completely forgotten about them when in the darkest parts of my relationship. Leaving can seem really hard, and the unknown can be lot scarier than the terrors you already know, but in many cases, it's a leap worth taking.
I think if things go down that road, giving yourself time and space and reconnecting with yourself are really important. Breakups can feel really overwhelming because you're changing major aspects of your social and emotional life, and it can leave you feeling a lot of uncertainty and anxiety. Going slow, thinking about what you really want and how you feel can help you start to open up possibilities and ideas that you hardly even realized you'd tucked away. Change can be really, really hard, but there's an element of rebirth and restart, too, and those can be consoling even while you're hurting. I'm really hopeful that your future, however it turns out, will be a better place than where you are right now. Taking the time and taking steps to make that future real are great, even if they don't feel that way right now.
Thank you, your perspective is invaluable. I'll have a lot of emotions to process over the coming weeks and months and years. Just take it a step at a time. I feel happiest at work, where I know I am making a genuine difference and positive change in the world. I want to bring that energy into my own life.
You spoke of big changes being a sort of rebirth - that's something I know well, too. It seems my life is full of them, and that this is yet another turning point... Which of course immediately puts Green Day's "Good Riddance" into my head.
I've been listening to a lot of breakup songs (and notable, the entirety of "Rumors" by Fleetwood Mac). Music truly is my place for working through difficult feelings. I wonder what it was for you?
Music was (and is!) super important to help me process feelings. I find breakups so complicated, because one moment you'll be wistful and miss the good times, and a week later you may want to scream bloody murder about how much you hate them and how they ruined your life. I wish I had made playlists to cover different moods (wistful, nostalgic, depressed, ragey), because I did have a few different go-to types of songs that really helped me with my emotional constipation at any given moment - put on the song, go for a walk, walk all those feelings out. I found that mixing in positivity and hope helped me not dwell too deeply on misery for too long, but sometimes you just feel bad and you need to work through it.
I'll say too that sometimes I still feel strong emotions for past relationships. Three years after my toxic relationship ended I remember I threw on that year's Eurovision playlist and heard a song I had formerly not cared for and it hit me so hard, I ended up ugly crying for two hours. For whatever reason, that time it just hit me right, I was able to see my relationship through that lens and it just ripped all this latent ugliness out of me. I think that can be pretty normal, especially when you have a huge, messy morass of feelings in relationships like these - you never know how you're going to feel as you're moving forward, and sometimes you can feel three or four different conflicting feelings at the same time. It's kind of annoying, honestly! But for me, putting on certain musical "themes" also really helped me regulate my mood when I was feeling really unstable.
I'll say too that I went through multiple rounds of therapy for that breakup (and I could probably go for another, honestly). The feelings I had early in that breakup were very different from feelings I had a year or two later, and I was finding that my residual unhappiness became unmanageable and it was helpful to talk with professionals who could steer me toward healthier behaviors and thought patterns. So I totally encourage you to feel your feelings completely, but don't feel bad or concerned if you get stuck somewhere, even years later - long and difficult relationships can really linger in your brain, and it's not always easy to find a way forward yourself.
I remembered that my go-to album was Lemonade, just for how comprehensively it captured different emotions about love and betrayal. I still blast "Sorry" sometimes when I feel righteously angry!
Have you brought up (and would you be open to) couples counseling? Having a mediator to help facilitate conversation may be helpful, perhaps there are some things your partner doesn't know how to say, but would be beneficial to (both of) your understanding(s) of the situation. It seems that the solutions you're trying are the solutions you've already tried, and sadly, repeating them isn't changing the outcome.
Second this, my partner and I had almost exactly the same issues as OP (minus the kids) and just a couple months of therapy helped us feel like we could keep going.
The therapy didn’t fix our issues, but it opened up communication so that we could start to fix our issues and very slowly, things did actually change. My partners habits are so much better now. Ive been slowly having them take over household tasks all year, we’re up to cleaning dishes and cooking. Its amazing.
Also! The “go-through” pile downstairs has vanished! No more pile!
Do recommend. Any therapist at all. It didnt feel like she helped at all but weeks went by and things were just better.
What is a go through pile?
A pile of stuff that you're like 'eh, I'll sort through it later', but then it keeps piling up and now it's a huge task to go through it all.
Doesn't have to be a pile, could be a drawer or a stack of papers.
It's a drawer for me... But we cope with it by me having my drawer and as long as I can find anything I need in it under a minute, I have the deal with my partner that he won't interfere with the Noox-drawer, so we make it work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Exactly what the other user said - in our case it was a stack of boxes with misc junk on top of the boxes. I kept having to manage it cause every so often he’d pile more on top and it would end up blocking the doorway which is a huge safety hazard in the event of a fire or some similar scenario.
I actually lost my shit on him once cause he’d piled cardboard boxes on top of an oven range we don’t use and don’t check often. I’d never been so upset at a person before. I used to work as an EMT and I had been to a couple house fires and they start exactly like that.
Anyway, he fixed it. We’re happy now
My entire house is a go through pile. -..- well maybe not papers on the range bad but I'm closer to that end than pristine plastic wrapper around the remote kind of house.
Its like an adhd thing isn’t it? Thats what my s/o has.
I go through things periodically because it helps me process my life. If my room is a mess its because theres something I’m not processing.
I’m not totally sure if this is what it is, but from the outside it appears like my s/o just doesn’t process anything ever. His memory is shit, his emotional intelligence is kinda shit, he can’t focus… it’s all symptoms of adhd and it drives me mad cause on the outside it looks like it would be so easy for him to just stop for a second and think about what he’s doing but I know thats not how it works and its actually way more difficult than it sounds.
It's definitely related to the ADHD, but not all ADHD people are like this (just most), and I might have other problems in the mix too.
I only recently acknowledged that I don't get runner's high from physical exertion, and I don't seem to have much of a euphoric sense of completing a task either. Probably the ADHD makes it harder for me to (1) interrupt already ongoing task (2) switch task (3) but not to idle meaningless time wasting preferred activities (3) somehow find motivation to do a non-preferred task (4) deal with the frustration of not sure how to get started (5) get started but sustain activity by not following random breadcrumbs away from non-preferred task (6) do until task is done or at a state where I won't be walking away having made an ever bigger mess. And all without sense of satisfaction.
For me, doing non preferred tasks is like asking you to do a co-workers' work for no pay, during your own working hours, while you've got other things you're doing.
Organizing my space is a preferred task to me though. I like going through mail, cleaning a surface, emptying the dishwasher. It helps my brain organize and put away its own thoughts.
I struggle way more with doing work I get paid for than I do with household tasks. My job is meaningless and only serves to contribute to the heat death of the universe while still somehow causing me stress anyway. Id much rather be doing the dishes, at least that helps me.
My s/o seems to be the opposite, he not only accepts the pointlessness of his salaried work, he thrives in that environment. Theres no way he actually seriously thinks about the nature of what he’s doing, cause then he wouldn’t be able to do it, it would cease to be a preferred task.
I can relate to this. Just wanted to say that, mostly so I remember I'm not alone in this but it also might be helpful for you to know.
Wooo club of at least two
Count me in (ADHD-pi)
What does "-pi" mean/stand for in this context?
Predominantly Inattentive
I'd be open to it, my worry is this is something they tried in their last marriage and they seemed dismissive about it. I'm not sure if it would help here. I'm not sure what would help.
Edit: changed pronouns cause oops. Additional note: something I've become increasingly aware of in the relationship is that they have an extremely difficult time with self reflection/introspection.
Additionally, it would be yet another expense that I don't think we can afford at the moment.
Okay this is probably weird but... it sounds like you still have close relationships with family on your side and theirs, and they know something is up. Maybe you can discuss this with them as well (inc. finances), and ask if anyone is able and willing to help the two of you put the money together for the initial counseling?
Also possible the other party will try a bit harder to participate if additional close family has expressed a hope for things to improve and even contributed money to help out.
Maybe it would also just be super uncomfortable or the other party would take it horribly. IDK sorry :(
Edit: and if family/in-laws are willing to contribute (maybe even if they can't financially?) perhaps both sides can help when searching for counseling as it seems like a few extra heads could make a difference.
I brought this up today. "No, counseling sucked I hated it, never doing it again." So that answers that.
I feel I'm trying so hard and getting nothing I'm asking for back.
Well that's a rough response. Ultimately it's a problem that needs a two sided solution -- If you're presenting a solution and your partner isn't buying in, they (ideally) should have some alteration or alternative to your solution, something that builds towards addressing/solving the conflict.
In my experience, a two person problem with only one working to solve it, does not get solved. But I'm also generalizing to non-relationship problems. While my wife and I do occasionally have disagreement or conflict, I've been very lucky that we both are committed to each other, and solving those pop up issues. Not at all to try and say "hey look at how great I have it", just illustrating that my viewpoint comes from generalization and not first hand experience, take it with a grain and/or bucket load of salt.
In any case, best of luck. I hope no matter the route taken, you look back on this in a year and think "that was a turning point for the better".
Small update, nothing major. I opened a new bank account for myself and now need to begin the process of migrating everything to it... As someone with adhd, this whole process is absolutely awful. I know it's essential, but UGH.
I spoke yesterday with my FIL about how things are, mainly focusing on finances and our relationship. He seems genuinely sad that we're likely heading for a split. We don't always see eye to eye but I have a lot of respect for him, and I think he for me. Reiterated that at this point, my financial concerns for my son's future are paramount in my mind.
My partner withdrew from their IRA to pay off their debts, and in the week or so since doing that they have already racked up over $1000 in additional credit card charges. That's the reality I had to deal with, that's what they told me to "Just fix." Yesterday I made the last payment from my (our) money on the mortgage. Now I focus on other things. If they want to spend, that's on them.
I talked about all this with my FIL, who agreed that it was wasteful, and that they've had many, many, many conversations with my partner about their spending, always to no avail. They've always had someone out something to rely on to bail them out.
I'm really looking forward to meeting a good friend tonight. I've been texting a lot with them about the situation, but we haven't had a chance to sit and talk in person. It'll be good for me.
To focus on a couple of points I've yet to see others do:
Two big issues here - the hoarding, of course, but also having to do anything secretly while in a relationship, with the exception of things like gifts, is a huge red flag to me.
For the hoarding, it wouldn't hurt to quickly skim the DSM-V diagnostic criteria, but it sounds like a match from your description (assuming the underlying cause is not another health condition). It's a very difficult disorder to apply an effective treatment plan to, and you would want to find a therapist who specializes in it. This is assuming you can get your partner to be "on board" with this at some point.
I highlight this specifically as I've seen my parents split over addiction. It's not as cut and dry as people make it sound - my mom's own words were "he's a great guy when he isn't drunk - but he's almost always drunk." This line of thinking even led to them "retrying" the relationship years after a divorce, but it didn't work out. If someone either denies having an addiction or refuses to seek help, they are not magically going to get better. But it is worth extending this offer a few times, in a few different ways, with as much compassion as possible. It sounds like you have supportive family - bring them in if you think it could help. If they are not ready to work on themselves after this, you can't put hope into them changing their mind one day, because it is not up to you - it's up to them.
Perhaps I'm connecting dots that don't exist, but I could see how this ties into the financial issues caused by their overspending. Maybe even some excessive spending on the kids in an attempt to create more of these "magical moments" you continue to observe and feel excluded from.
This is something I have struggled with a lot. I was raised in a way that led to me feel like everything needed to be solution oriented, and that "touchy feely stuff" will get you nowhere. So I went through a lot of occurrences where I would tell my partner "I don't know what I'm supposed to say/do." My partner helped me with this by explaining her side in a calm moment. That she just wants to understand the "why" and that I should stop skipping straight to fix it mode. Even though I now know this, it's a difficult pattern to break. So while it may seem obvious to you, it may not be as straightforward for someone else.
All this said, while it sounds like this post is stating you've made up your mind, I don't think you would have shared it if there wasn't some hesitation. (And of course there is - an 8 year relationship is a very long one!) But I guess I'll end with a couple more points:
Finally, since I know my responses can sometimes come across as cold - I am genuinely sorry you are going through this. It is a shitty situation and your emotions and thoughts are valid. I hope you are able to get to a point where you enjoy a relationship again- regardless of how you get there.
I looked through - I don't believe it qualifies for the disorder, though. Not enough markers. With some introspection about it, I feel it's more just a consequence of the constant spending and buying of things. I'm wondering if it's actually a shopping addiction.
I think today that coin flip happened. I offered to try counseling, and asked again for her to look past the money problems and instead look at us for a moment. Completely shut down the counseling idea and again ignored any comment about feelings between us. Only focused on financials.
I feel I've tried about everything I can. I don't know what I might be missing.
Sounds like you haven't missed anything. If your relationship requires significant change for you to be happy, and your partner refuses to discuss it seriously, then it's likely not going to work out.
This sounds terrible and it sounds like you are at the end of your rope. The financial part and hoarding especially sound so very stressful to me. The lack of intimacy, the difference in parenting styles, sharing the housekeeping workload: those things I can see you’d be able to work through. But if somebody is sabotaging your life financially and clogging up the house, I don’t think I could go on with that in my life.
It sounds like you may have a really good relationship with your father in law, have you considered having a really frank talk with him to see what he thinks is going on? Your partner sounds like he may have bigger issues they need to work on.
It really does sound like you’ve made up your mind. The best of luck to you.
This, to me, is likely a big reason that things are failing. It's just so hard to convey nuance, empathy and more through text. I could be wrong of course, but I would personally not like to be in any form of relationship where text is the main form of communication.
Thank you, it's why I kept pushing to talk instead. I'm not even that good at speaking my feelings. I just know it's easier to clear up miscommunications and convey that nuance you mentioned.
I'd argue that if you're not good at talking about feelings the tone and body language is even more important. Both of them are much more automatic and subconscious than selecting which words to use. Doesn't matter if your partner refuses to talk to you though. Do you know the reasoning behind why they won't talk to you?
They are confrontation avoidant.
Does she suffer from depression?
What's she overspending on?
If the house is just in her name then have you been paying into it? Or is it her asset that has a loan against it to pay for her spending? That would be a lot cleaner, though obviously still undesirable.
This is complicated because she has authority over all the kids and you don't. Even though you have equal parenting authority over your own kid in practice she's going to set the tone for the household. You can't win by fighting this, regardless of whether you're right.
So don't try. Instead of trying to shift her to being more authoritarian or authoritative, focus on shifting yourself to more of a "gentle parenting" style. Even if you think this is objectively a worse style of parenting, shifting allows you to influence her to be less permissive because it removes her built-up defence of dismissing your approach as authoritarian. Sometimes it's better to be effective than to be right.
First, I want to express to you that this sounds like an exhausting situation, and it's no wonder you're struggling. It seems like most dimensions of your life are just very difficult, and your partner doesn't seem like they're able to meet you where you're at right now. I hope you're able to find outlets for yourself to destress, as well as good people to vent to.
For context, I'll say that I was in a long-term unhealthy relationship with an abusive person. For a long, long time, I tried so hard to express to them how their behaviour hurt me, and things i needed to be happy, and they ultimately told me, in a couple of different ways, that they didn't care enough about me to do that, and ultimately, they knew I would cave and try to compromise, and they would never have to do anything. I have a strong suspicion they weee a sociopath. Anyway, I have had a few longer term relationships, and I think one of the things it's important to remember is that a relationship should be a partnership that you both want to work. There needs to be balance, and there needs to be a shared vision of how your lives together will look. I'm not a therapist, but I do echo the calls of others to see a counselor, either individually or separate, to help you navigate how to process. I would also recommend you find a way to tell your partner that you need to have a talk, a real talk, where you set boundaries and goals, because you already have one foot out the door. That can be really scary and can permanently affect the dynamics of your relationship, but it really seems like your partner doesn't respect you or your shared lives, and they seem to know that you will bend and twist yourself to make things work.
I will say too that it seems like your partner may be going through something on their end that is out of your hands. I'm not sure if it's mental health related or midlife crisis related or what, but if they're not willing to converse with you directly and they're distant from you physically and with the intimacy, there may be broader things going on that a conversation is not going to change. This is why counseling can help, but if they are going through an episode, that may make it really hard for them to seek the help they need, and so as other posters mentioned, seeking help from in-laws may help, if you feel comfortable.
Finally, I think you should consider making a list for yourself of things you want done differently in your relationship, and perhaps boundaries that need to be set. How much do you want your partner contributing to household activities? What sort of financial goals or boundaries need to be set, given their overspending habits (or compulsions)? What dynamics with your own children do you want, and are there any dynamics between you and your partner that you would like to change generally in your household? Obviously they should get the final say on their own kids, but if you feel like you're being constantly undermined or disrespected and it's affecting your relationship with your kid, articulating for yourself what you want to see change might be able to sort out the "actionable items" from the general morass of pain and exhaustion you're feeling. And as part of that list, give yourself some boundaries for when you call it quits. Is it when they tell you they'll make a change within x time and fail to do it? Is it when you reach a particular level of despair and misery? Is it when your actions around the house are ignored and nothing changes? When you have a moment of calm, setting thresholds for yourself and actually sticking to them I think could be really helpful for you, especially given that this is your first long-term relationship. I set boundaries for myself and let them get crossed over and over because I thought my ex would change, and they had no intention of doing it. I should have left years earlier, which would have saved me a lot of heartache and a good deal of trauma that I still carry with me. It wasn't worth it - I should have left the first time I noticed a problem.
This isn't your fault. It sounds like you have tried really hard to keep the ship afloat, but you can't do that by yourself indefinitely, and it isn't fair to you to have to do these things by yourself. I hope you reach out to trusted people who know the situation and ask for their advice; let them know that you can't do this much longer and that things need to change. In many ways, the relationship is familiar, and that may make it scary to leave, but you are getting hardly any of your needs met, and you are allowing your own happiness to be sacrificed in the name of stability. You deserve better than that. I hope you find a solution that gives you solace, and I wish you the best of luck.
If you’re having conversations for the explicit purpose of resolving conflict and can try to model positive conflict resolution behaviors, why does it matter if the kids are around? How else will they learn it?
Because discussing things that sound like divorce can be very stressful for kids. I know my kids overhear me and my wife sometimes and then quietly worry.
I’m suggesting something like:
Not something like:
One is the start of a conversation that leaves room for conflict resolution and mutual understanding, the other is an ultimatum.
But honestly, even talking about divorce in front of kids is probably for the best if you can model good communication and conflict resolution behavior. How else will kids learn to end a relationship in a healthy way?
As a child of divorce, hearing them talk about it would have just made things worse. They could easily have a private conversation about it and then talk to the kids once the decision is made. What matters is how they’re told. The kids just randomly hearing their parents talking about getting divorced would be extremely upsetting and depending on their age, traumatic.
As a child of divorce, the parents talking about it in private and then talking to the kids once the decision has been made is the parents randomly talking about getting divorce.
And there’s a big “if” that I think may have been misunderstood. I’m not talking about an “I know about Becky with the good hair, I want a divorce” type conversation. I’m talking about a conversation that is a continuation of good conflict resolution and communication behaviors, “[partner], we’ve done [x, y, and z] to try to resolve [conflict] but it’s a still an issue for us. Do you want to try [w] or would it be fairer for both of us to consider separating at this point?”
As I was reading the post, I kept thinking about how there were solutions to most of the problems you listed. Some of them would involve a decent amount of work, but they were doable. Once I got to this sentence though, my perspective changed. If you’re really feeling that way and it isn’t just idle daydreaming (“What if I was married to Brad Pitt and had millions of dollars?!”), that is a pretty clear indicator that you want out.
Fantasizing about other people isn’t a bad thing. It’s natural. But doing it from a lack of intimacy with your primary partner is a problem. Have you discussed this with your partner?
I think any one of the problems you mentioned can be overcome. But together they may be insurmountable. It sounds like a tangled web of interconnected issues that might be difficult to deal with.
However, if you feel up to it and want to give things one last try, I would suggest sitting your partner down after the kids go to bed and in very blunt and simple terms that you’re unhappy and that things need to change if your relationship is to continue. Don’t be mean, but don’t dance around the issues. If you’re willing to work with them on changing things slowly, let them know. If you are willing and can afford it, a couple’s councilor might be able to facilitate things beyond the initial discussion. But make your requirements clear. Let them know X, Y and Z need to happen for the relationship to continue.
Know going in that it may end with them storming off and being mad at you. Feelings will most likely get hurt. But letting these things fester is never a good option.