61 votes

Air India 787 crashes after takeoff in Ahmedabad, India

41 comments

  1. kari
    Link
    I know Boeing hasn't exactly had a good reputation for a few years... but this is the first ever fatal 787 accident after 11 years in service.

    I know Boeing hasn't exactly had a good reputation for a few years... but this is the first ever fatal 787 accident after 11 years in service.

    25 votes
  2. CannibalisticApple
    Link
    Adding to the chaos, I saw on reddit that the hostel was for the local hospital. A comment on there mentions it was during lunch time, and the plane hit the mess hall. Looking it up, AP news' live...

    Adding to the chaos, I saw on reddit that the hostel was for the local hospital.

    • The situation is very serious at Civil Hospital. Along with 240 passengers and 10 cree members, 100+ medical students and doctors were present in the building where the plane crashed.

    • Resident doctors quaters are completely destroyed, while there is severe damge on hostel as well

    • There is shortage of doctors right now in civil which is generally crowded always.

    • patients are shifted to Sola hospital as well as Asarva civil is already full

    A comment on there mentions it was during lunch time, and the plane hit the mess hall. Looking it up, AP news' live updates report at least five medical students are dead, and "nearly 50 injured". Possibly one of the worst places that plane could hit,.

    19 votes
  3. Raspcoffee
    Link
    Man. Just. Can I say here 'what a week'? It reminds me of a darker version of what we saw at the end of last year. So much shit that before you can even process one thing, another one pops up. My...

    Man. Just. Can I say here 'what a week'? It reminds me of a darker version of what we saw at the end of last year. So much shit that before you can even process one thing, another one pops up.

    My deepest condolences to the victims, their families, and friends... just. Man. I can't imagine having to mourn while the world is practically burning down like this.

    14 votes
  4. [5]
    NaraVara
    Link
    Further context This seems to be one of the specific planes that the Boeing whistleblower who conveniently died said kept him up at night. When another QA engineer told her manager it was not...

    Further context

    This seems to be one of the specific planes that the Boeing whistleblower who conveniently died said kept him up at night. When another QA engineer told her manager it was not airworthy he told her “don’t worry, these are being shipped overseas.”

    Truly ghoulish individuals who deserve every bad thing that could happen to them.

    14 votes
    1. [2]
      thearrow
      Link Parent
      Ironic that the top-voted comment in this thread is praising the fact that this plane flew 11 years before crashing: — John Barnett, Boeing whistleblower

      Ironic that the top-voted comment in this thread is praising the fact that this plane flew 11 years before crashing:

      It generally takes, he’d say with audible sadness, ten or twelve years for assembly-line sloppiness to culminate in a plane crash.

      — John Barnett, Boeing whistleblower

      20 votes
      1. Weldawadyathink
        Link Parent
        I guess that makes the door plug incident even more special. That sloppiness didn’t take 10 years to cause problems.

        I guess that makes the door plug incident even more special. That sloppiness didn’t take 10 years to cause problems.

        7 votes
    2. skybrian
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      That's quite an irresponsible article. They should have stopped there, but no, they have to keep pushing their preferred theory instead of waiting for the results of the crash investigation. A...

      That's quite an irresponsible article.

      It’s too early to know exactly what caused the bizarre crash of Air India 171

      They should have stopped there, but no, they have to keep pushing their preferred theory instead of waiting for the results of the crash investigation. A casual reader will come away assuming the crash was caused by a manufacturing defect when we don't know that yet.

      We'll know soon enough.

      15 votes
    3. CannibalisticApple
      Link Parent
      Damn. Highly recommend people read that article. I was already aware how bad Boeing is now, but this is a good reminder of just how bad it is. The fact a single company had to replace hundreds of...

      Damn. Highly recommend people read that article. I was already aware how bad Boeing is now, but this is a good reminder of just how bad it is. The fact a single company had to replace hundreds of engines for this model is... Yeah, not good.

      Related anecdote my mom reminded me when I read some of it out to her: we have a pilot friend, now retired, who was still flying when the Boeing 737 Max was grounded in 2019-2020 due to the issue with the MCAS causing two crashes in five months. She confirmed to my mom that there was no mention of the MCAS existing: not in any training, not in the manual, not online. Given that thing's purpose is to be a horizontal stabilizer, that's pretty vital information for pilots to know.

      She said pilots used to say "if it ain't Boeing, I'm not going." Now though, between that issue and now everything mentioned in this article, I think the sentiment is "if it's Boeing, I ain't going." The whole reason I found Admiral Cloudberg's write-ups of crashes surprisingly reassuring was because the investigations would focus on how to change things to prevent those specific accidents from happening again, but when the issue is Boeing making shitty planes... yeah, not much you can do to fix that besides scrapping them all. Every Boeing plane is a potential ticking time bomb at this point.

      7 votes
  5. [4]
    skybrian
    Link
    Fuel switches cut off before Air India crash that killed 260, preliminary report says (BBC) So it's still a mystery, but it rules lots of things out. Also: nowadays, crashes are rare enough that...

    Fuel switches cut off before Air India crash that killed 260, preliminary report says (BBC)

    [B]oth engine fuel cut off switches moved from run to cut off within seconds of takeoff, abruptly cutting the plane's thrust at 180 knots.

    Cockpit voice recordings capture one pilot asking the other why they'd shut the engines down, only to be met with a denial - heightening suspicion that this wasn’t a routine or accidental action. Engineers note these switches are specifically guarded and require deliberate operation, typically reserved for emergencies like engine fire - not mid-flight manoeuvres.

    So it's still a mystery, but it rules lots of things out.

    Also: nowadays, crashes are rare enough that it's often due to something very weird happening.

    10 votes
    1. [3]
      nukeman
      Link Parent
      The general speculation on r/flying is that it was likely intentional. Either by one of the pilots, or someone in a jumpseat.

      The general speculation on r/flying is that it was likely intentional. Either by one of the pilots, or someone in a jumpseat.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        Possibly, but did they find any additional evidence supporting that theory?

        Possibly, but did they find any additional evidence supporting that theory?

        2 votes
        1. Eji1700
          Link Parent
          Not really from what I’ve read/discussed. Mechanical failure is extremely unlikely as described. Malicious intent is possible, but I do wonder why “mistake” is being ignored? Seems about as likely...

          Not really from what I’ve read/discussed.

          Mechanical failure is extremely unlikely as described.

          Malicious intent is possible, but I do wonder why “mistake” is being ignored? Seems about as likely as “let’s kill everyone on this plane” and it does happen with rote operations. People will sometimes get into the wrong muscle memory and I believe those switches are by the gear so maybe just some crossed wires in the brain at the worst possible moment.

          Overall not anything solid either way as of yet.

          4 votes
  6. [15]
    gowestyoungman
    Link
    This isn't helping my longstanding wish to not to ever board a plane again. Ironically I used to work for an international carrier and flew quite often. But while statistically you're much less...

    This isn't helping my longstanding wish to not to ever board a plane again. Ironically I used to work for an international carrier and flew quite often. But while statistically you're much less likely to DIE in a commercial plane, what the media rarely talk about, is how many incidents happen while flying that make it far less than comfortable. I've been in a plane that had a lightning strike, one that blew tires on landing, one that took emergency diversionary procedures a few seconds before landing and worst of all, heavy turbulence that lifted us out of our seats. None of thats going to make the news, but when you start to add up how many times very uncomfortable things happen, driving suddenly seems SO much calmer. And at least you have some control over your situation.

    And god forbid, you're in a car accident, its over in 2 seconds and you either died or more than likely, just got injured. But its over. In one of these catastrophic plane accidents, you have plenty of time to realize that you're about to die, anywhere from several seconds to MINUTES of terror as your plane falls out of the sky and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

    Nope. If I cant drive, Im not going. Ive had enough 'incidents' to fill my transportation stress cup to the top.

    9 votes
    1. [10]
      CannibalisticApple
      Link Parent
      How often did you used to fly? I've flown many times over my life, and I think the closest thing to an "incident" was just flying through bad weather, leading to a bumpy ride. So I'm curious at...

      How often did you used to fly? I've flown many times over my life, and I think the closest thing to an "incident" was just flying through bad weather, leading to a bumpy ride. So I'm curious at the odds you'd have four separate incidents, since I feel like most people never (knowingly) encounter an incident. (Knowingly, because sometimes smaller things can happen in the background but can get resolved or handled without the passengers ever learning anything was wrong. Honestly reassuring to me to know that the crews have the training to handle problems.)

      Honestly, just being in a plane struck by lightning would probably be good enough reason to avoid flying. I'm not superstitious but I do believe some people are just jinxed in some way (mainly because of my dad, who would always receive the wrong order at drive-throughs or always run into traffic issues), so... Yeah, I can't blame you for giving up flying altogether.

      12 votes
      1. [9]
        dhcrazy333
        Link Parent
        As someone else who absolutely hates flying and never wants to get into a plane ever again, a lot of it comes down to control. I really do not like heights, especially if I am not in control, so...

        As someone else who absolutely hates flying and never wants to get into a plane ever again, a lot of it comes down to control. I really do not like heights, especially if I am not in control, so nothing about soaring 40k feet in the air going hundreds of mph in a metal tube sounds appealing. Add in any slight turbulence, I absolutely get terrible "this is it! It's over!" feelings.

        Logically speaking I know it's irrational, given that airplanes are generally speaking, safer travel than cars. I know this, it just doesn't cut through the lack of my own control combined with the fear of heights combo.

        Is much rather drive 16 hours than deal with a 3 hour flight, especially if there's good scenery. Driving doesn't give me anxiety, I'm in control, I can set my schedule stop when I want, start when I want, etc. I know that I am unfortunately at the whims and terrible decision making of other drivers but it's still far less anxiety inducing.

        4 votes
        1. [4]
          ButteredToast
          Link Parent
          It’s probably because I’m a newish (~1yr) driver, but it’s the opposite for me. Driving makes me anxious, especially when I don’t know the roads being taken, because I trust myself and others on...

          It’s probably because I’m a newish (~1yr) driver, but it’s the opposite for me. Driving makes me anxious, especially when I don’t know the roads being taken, because I trust myself and others on the road a whole lot less than I do a professional flight crew. I wonder how much experience it’d take to flip that.

          6 votes
          1. [2]
            daychilde
            Link Parent
            I've been driving for more than 30 years. In some ways, I still have that: So many drivers do not pay attention when they drive and it drives me crazy. My suggestion would be: Get in the habit of...

            I've been driving for more than 30 years. In some ways, I still have that: So many drivers do not pay attention when they drive and it drives me crazy.

            My suggestion would be: Get in the habit of checking your mirrors as you drive - a couple of times per minute if not more. Also, make sure you're not looking just at the car ahead of you, but farther ahead. Most drivers don't do these.

            On the latter: A lot of accidents happen on roads because people are "surprised" by sudden stops that they should not have been. If you're keeping an eye on traffic ahead, you'll see slowdowns before the reach you and can start slowing down and being prepared for them. The drivers who are only paying attention to the car in front will speed up before it's worth it, then have to hit the brakes as the "springiness" of traffic naturally occurs. And worse, when people hit the brakes, their delayed reaction means they hit the brakes harder, and that cascades back until someone runs out of time and hits someone. Keeping an eye out means you won't be that person.

            On the former: You should generally not be "surprised" by a car that passes you at high speed, because you hopefully will be keeping an eye on traffic around you. It's also practically helpful: If you have to suddenly swerve, if you have a mental picture of what's around you, you know if there's a car next to you or not andif it's safe to swerve in that direction. This has absolutely saved me, knowing it was clear.

            Being aware like this also keeps your head fully "in the game" — you are driving first. I will talk to passengers, have music, eat food, whatever — but I am driving first and I take it seriously.

            And so far, while I have been hit twice in my life, outside of two times in traffic I bumped into someone early on - since 2000 I have not been hit nor hit anyone.

            If you're curious about the four times I mention: 1. I was on a freeway that always durign rush hour at a particular place went from full 70mph (in a 55mph) down to stop and go. Every day. I reached the slowdown and came to a stop. Sitting there for liek 10-15 seconds which is an eternity on a freeway and a minivan was late braking and hit me at like 5-10mph. There was zero excuse. But also, zero fault on my side. 2. Driving in th middle of three lanes in a 35mph zone on a road, passing a semi in the left lane who ws doing 25mph-ish, on a rainy day. A van appeared suddenly in front of me - turning from a sideroad in front of the semi, deciding to try and beat it into the middlel ane - where I was. I slammed on the brakes but thanks to the slick roads bent their bumper and dented my hood. Annoying, but again, not my fault 3. I don't remember the circumstances, but I tapped a bumper in traffic at low speed 4. I do remember the circumstances. In rush hour traffic on interstate in stop-and-go and I was too close and sneezed or something and nearly still stopped in time, but at like 1-2mph bounced off - and I mean I felt it being pushed backward slightly. We got out, both saw no damage, I apolgized profusely, and we both went on our merry way

            So the latter two were my fault, but I'd been driving less than a decade, but also stepped up my paying attention after that, and so now in more than 25 years, nothing further. Some close calls, but I was able to avoid them because I was paying attention

            I think experience and getting into the habit of paying attention will only help. Since very early on with my driving - and my wife would do this too - we've both gotten a feel for other drivers. You can't predict everything, but jsut paying attention helps. Are they drifting about - in their lane and with their speed? Careful around them, they're distracted. Being able to sense this about drivers will mean they surprise you less when they made sudden lane changes. My wife and I both have had the experience of driving with people and being like "Look at this asshat" and our passenger is like"what?" and sure enough, asshat does something stupid. You get a feel for that to some degree.

            Also, more driving helps. You get a feel for how people drive when you drive more and are around them more. For the most part, most people are pretty relaxed - most people let people in, just want to get where they're going, etc. So be kind as you would want others to be kind.

            Some people get uptight out there. If someone's on your ass, if there's any way you can let them around - even pulling off - do it. Let them go their merry way and be angry at someone else.

            And while I used to speed horribly and lane-change aggressively when I was younger - I'm much more relaxed about it. On your average journey, it makes so little difference as to be stupid. Arriving 30 seconds quicker - IF you manage to actually MAKE progress - just does nothing. We'll all get there, just relax and don't stress.

            (That said, it's silly to sit behind someone going very slow when you can get around them - going back to paying attention to traffic around you - you should see yourself approaching slow cars ahead and be able to go around in plenty of time, not hit your brakes right behind them and then starting to think about going around - you should already know!)

            So I think more driving, and more thoughtful and considerate driving - more paying attention - is what builds confidence in driving.

            7 votes
            1. gary
              Link Parent
              Yeah I totally agree with everything you're saying here. I have zero recollection that they taught us anything you're saying in Driver's Ed, but it would have been infinitely more useful to learn...

              Yeah I totally agree with everything you're saying here. I have zero recollection that they taught us anything you're saying in Driver's Ed, but it would have been infinitely more useful to learn how to anticipate the flow of traffic than to go over what a specific sign means for the tenth time.

              Given the way so many people drive, I don't think everyone picks up what you're saying even after driving for a while. Some people actively look to see how they can improve their driving and some people don't.

              4 votes
          2. crialpaca
            Link Parent
            I'm on year 9 of driving (began driving as an adult) and I still feel that way. But, for context, at some point in my teens and even more since, I've realized that neither of my parents are...

            I'm on year 9 of driving (began driving as an adult) and I still feel that way. But, for context, at some point in my teens and even more since, I've realized that neither of my parents are responsible drivers - which has made me feel even less safe on the road, because a LOT of people drive like them. I'm now much happier to take transit for my commute than driving myself. I also haven't had any issues flying, which I've done a fair amount of.

            3 votes
        2. [2]
          hobbes64
          Link Parent
          I also dislike flying but I think a lot of it is caused by the crowding on a large commercial plane. It's kind of claustrophobic and people can be noisy and rude. If there is any danger a lot of...

          I also dislike flying but I think a lot of it is caused by the crowding on a large commercial plane. It's kind of claustrophobic and people can be noisy and rude. If there is any danger a lot of people will freak out and make the situation worse. I would feel more comfortable on a smaller plane even though they are generally less safe.

          6 votes
          1. gowestyoungman
            Link Parent
            I was on a red eye back from Hawaii and the guy two rows behind me had a few too many and wouldn't stop talking. Thats ok for a few minutes but within half an hour every other passenger had their...

            people can be noisy and rude.

            I was on a red eye back from Hawaii and the guy two rows behind me had a few too many and wouldn't stop talking. Thats ok for a few minutes but within half an hour every other passenger had their light off and was trying to sleep and Mr Yappy just kept talking, calling the flight attendants, trying to get even more drinks, which they refused. He disturbed everyone within earshot for the ENTIRE five hour flight and quite a few of us got zero sleep because of his ignorant behavior.
            When we landed and everyone stood up to get their luggage he started to complain loudly and the man standing directly in front of him finally had enough. He turned around and YELLED "SHUT YOUR STUPID MOUTH! WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!" and then punched Mr. Yappy right in the face! There was a moment of silence and then the entire plane broke into applause! It was obvious the boor had ticked off over 180 people and someone finally let him know in no uncertain terms.

            10 votes
        3. CannibalisticApple
          Link Parent
          I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to fly. Plane accidents are scary. I'm not scared of flying, but the possibility is still always there when I do fly. And uh, with all the recent incidents...

          I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to fly. Plane accidents are scary. I'm not scared of flying, but the possibility is still always there when I do fly. And uh, with all the recent incidents making the news (and also the stuff with air traffic control systems just, shutting down, what—) I don't think I want to fly anytime soon unless I have to.

          Or at the very least, not on a Boeing plane...

          3 votes
        4. BeardyHat
          Link Parent
          I did a whole bunch of flying last year, at least 6 flights off the top of my head, two of which were 9 hours a piece. This same problem just didn't get better for me; I just have relatively...

          I did a whole bunch of flying last year, at least 6 flights off the top of my head, two of which were 9 hours a piece. This same problem just didn't get better for me; I just have relatively extreme anxiety when flying, but I keep doing it because it's the easiest way to get from point a to point b, especially with my kids.

          I have another flight coming up at the end of the month and while I'm looking forward to the trip, I am not the flights themselves.

          2 votes
    2. [4]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      Don't forget the options of permanently paralyzed or permanently brain damaged.

      And god forbid, you're in a car accident, its over in 2 seconds and you either died or more than likely, just got injured.

      Don't forget the options of permanently paralyzed or permanently brain damaged.

      12 votes
      1. [3]
        gowestyoungman
        Link Parent
        Im still playing the odds... although now that I think about it, I do know one person who is in a wheelchair for life because of a car accident. But I have an old friend's parents who were killed...

        Im still playing the odds... although now that I think about it, I do know one person who is in a wheelchair for life because of a car accident. But I have an old friend's parents who were killed in a plane crash years ago, as well as a very good friend and a cousin who were killed in separate small plane crashes. So.... Im sticking with cars.

        1 vote
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          Not wanting to fly on commercial planes is a comfort issue, and my partner has been disabled for 15+ years, now paralyzed due to a car (with a semi) accident, but you couldn't pay me to fly in a...

          Not wanting to fly on commercial planes is a comfort issue, and my partner has been disabled for 15+ years, now paralyzed due to a car (with a semi) accident, but you couldn't pay me to fly in a little plane like a Cessna or ride a motorcycle. It's all about relative risk

          9 votes
        2. teaearlgraycold
          Link Parent
          Please don’t fly if you don’t want to. It’s a highly pollutive activity.

          Please don’t fly if you don’t want to. It’s a highly pollutive activity.

          4 votes
  7. [5]
    guissmo
    Link
    Are crashes happening more frequently these days or is it a case of me seeing reports more often? Seems like every crash I hear of is a Boeing.

    Are crashes happening more frequently these days or is it a case of me seeing reports more often?

    Seems like every crash I hear of is a Boeing.

    7 votes
    1. [4]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      Believe it or not but there’s actually been less aviation accidents this year relative to prior years. https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/monthly-dashboard.aspx We’re about halfway through the...

      Believe it or not but there’s actually been less aviation accidents this year relative to prior years.

      https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/monthly-dashboard.aspx

      We’re about halfway through the year but way less than half 2024’s count. There’s been 470 so far, and in 2024 by June there were 740.

      29 votes
      1. [3]
        guissmo
        Link Parent
        Is there a way to see accidents involving other continents? At first I was like wow Europe and Asia seem super safe until I realized the data was for US only

        Is there a way to see accidents involving other continents?

        At first I was like wow Europe and Asia seem super safe until I realized the data was for US only

        2 votes
        1. Foreigner
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          The Aviation Safety Network should have the information you're looking for. Looking at total numbers for 2024 and numbers so far for 2025, halfway through the year we're at slightly *less than...

          The Aviation Safety Network should have the information you're looking for. Looking at total numbers for 2024 and numbers so far for 2025, halfway through the year we're at slightly *less than half in terms of total incidents and fatalities. Seems to be on par with previous years as well. Interestingly in 2020 when COVID travel restrictions hit, fatalities were lower but not by that much compared to other years.

          12 votes
        2. stu2b50
          Link Parent
          It will vary by country. Europe and Asia aren’t countries, so there’ll be piecemeal data available. It includes all US flights, so accidents by US registered planes will count.

          It will vary by country. Europe and Asia aren’t countries, so there’ll be piecemeal data available.

          It includes all US flights, so accidents by US registered planes will count.

          1 vote
  8. [9]
    Minori
    Link
    Found a short of the plane crash: https://youtube.com/shorts/dcj-rI7CwPY I'm no aviation expert, but it looks like it glided down?

    Found a short of the plane crash: https://youtube.com/shorts/dcj-rI7CwPY

    I'm no aviation expert, but it looks like it glided down?

    1 vote
    1. [4]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        vektor
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        That inspires confidence. Not that ATC was at all likely to be a factor, but... at least in the US, the public can be as informed as they please about that particular problem.

        Also, we won't have ATC comms for at least some time if ever because it's apparently illegal in India to record that.

        That inspires confidence.

        Not that ATC was at all likely to be a factor, but... at least in the US, the public can be as informed as they please about that particular problem.

        5 votes
        1. Minori
          Link Parent
          India's bureaucracy is...challenging to say the least. Their government regulations aren't great.

          India's bureaucracy is...challenging to say the least. Their government regulations aren't great.

          2 votes
      2. NaraVara
        Link Parent
        Very helpful to have this context on the engineering specifics, thanks.

        Very helpful to have this context on the engineering specifics, thanks.

        2 votes
    2. [2]
      kari
      Link Parent
      Apparently the last transmission from the plane was a mayday call about engine failure

      Apparently the last transmission from the plane was a mayday call about engine failure

      7 votes
      1. gowestyoungman
        Link Parent
        Would have to be both engines. The Dreamliner has enough power to take off just on one engine.

        Would have to be both engines. The Dreamliner has enough power to take off just on one engine.

        5 votes
    3. datavoid
      Link Parent
      Allegedly someone walked out of the plane.. absolutely insane.

      Allegedly someone walked out of the plane.. absolutely insane.

      3 votes
    4. [2]
      TaylorSwiftsPickles
      Link Parent
      The explosion at the end is horrifying D:

      The explosion at the end is horrifying D:

      1 vote
      1. feigneddork
        Link Parent
        I genuinely wish I hadn't seen it. It's horrifying and quite haunting.

        I genuinely wish I hadn't seen it. It's horrifying and quite haunting.

        3 votes