I have wasps building hives under the eves on my house. I'm looking for a way to kill them without Raid or other harsh chemicals. Right now there seems to be about 10 hornets starting on this hive. I see a number of other places they've made hives around the house that were removed before we moved in. My current options that I've found so far are spraying with dawn soap/water/garden sprayer or peppermint. It seems a little too high to get a garbage bag around them easily before pissing them off. Any other good ideas?

Beginner amateur photographer here (emphasis on the amateur - zero desire to monetize my photos or start a business). Several months ago I bought a Sony A6000 after doing some research on cameras for beginners. The camera was fine but to completely honest I wasn't very enthused with the pictures coming out.

Then I bought a 50 mm prime lens, and what a difference! Compared to the kit lenses, my photos started coming out the way I envisioned them. They say you should never blame the gear and while I agree with the general sentiment, photography became a lot more fun after acquiring my nifty fifty.

My question to all the photographers out there is, what next? For context, I mostly enjoy shooting people from close distances (1-5 m) away. However, a lot of my shots are of groups of people doing sports-like activities so when there's more than two people I have trouble capturing it all with my current setup. Any recommendations are much appreciated!

Hoping this is the right group?

Inspired by coffee/cocktail threads, here’s one for my favorite consumable, cigars!

Here’re some potential questions to maybe inspire some discussion.

• What have you smoked recently that has surprised or impressed you?

• What’s a favorite cigar memory?

• What’re your stogie rituals?

• What’re some recent acquisitions and why did you purchase them?

• What’s your #1 cigar rec of all time? What’s your top rec from something new to you in the last year?

• How did you get into cigars and how long have you been smoking?

And anything else!

I’ve discussed cigars extensively in various online spaces and I’m very optimistic about the idea of tildes’ text-only and highly discoursive environment to provide some cool cigar content and a bit more than just photos of half smoked sticks (which I love too but get a lot of!).

I’ll hit on a few of my icebreaker questions at once. My most recent smoke was a Plasecnia Alma del Fuego Eduardo I which was absolutely fantastic. A lot of pepperiness throughout, with a lot of earthiness and meatiness. Quite full bodied, phenomenal smoke production and a very easy draw.

This stick was new to me but I am no stranger to Plasencia. I’ve been closely following their growth the last few years and the Alma Fuerte Salomon was my top stick of 2022.

I'm an avid cigar smoker and thought it might be a good hobby to pick up. Curious about a few of the aspects around doing it.

How long does it take to roll a single cigar? 10 cigars?
Is it that much cheaper?
How much difference is there in each blend? Is it hard to mimic cigars you already like?

Learn my love of flashlights from Reddit and got this deal. I'm not sponsored or shilling just like this flashlights and wanted to share the deal. (And cut my teeth on posting here.)

Sofirn flashlights are highly regarded in the flashlight community. I've gotten a few of their torches and I've never been disappointed. This is a pretty amazing deal which includes the 18650 Li-ion battery with built in C charging.

https://www.amazon.com/promocode/A1ULCAIBGHXI4S

Note that you have to clip the 20% off coupon on Amazon as well as use the promo for 30% off.

Any other flashlight fans here? What's your poison?

So me and my wife have temporarily moved in with my parents to save up for a down payment (boy houses are expensive right now). Their house is in a more rural part of Arizona and they have a tons of trails and fire roads that I'm looking at riding when it gets cooler. I have a Canyon Grizl AL 6 with 45mm tires and a rigid carbon fork. The tires are set up tubeless and have pretty good dry grip so I think I should be fine and I would be less than 5 miles from a car accessible road at all times. I have under biked a bit before but not on a desert trail. I was curious if any riders here have any experience and/or advice for taking a gravel bike on single track.

This is a good time to repeat the prompt made by @0d_billie back in 2020, and I will also reuse the questions in their post.

So are any tilderen martial artists? If so, tell me about it!

• What do you practice?
• How long have you done it?
• How does it benefit you?
• Do you attend classes or practice solo?
• Would you recommend your martial art to a beginner?

I'm curious to know what martial ars everyone likes the most, and why!

i've been climbing for a few years now, and am realising my mindset, patterns, etc need changing. on the other hand i want to continue to enjoy climbing as a hobby, and not treat it like a grueling workout/job/torture.

what do you do on the wall, off the wall, and outside of climbing itself (i.e. daily life) to help you improve?

Started way back in 2013, but due to injuries at work I took a break until beginning on this year. Finally found a friend to start back up at it with a local school in Vancouver. Love it.

I've done some Rapier and Smallsword, but focusing on Longsword right now. Entering my first tournament this Friday. Excited to get my butt kicked.

Anyone else practicing HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)?

Our school is more focus on Fiore's teachings and Italian fencing, but from time to time we get other more experienced practitioners from other school to teach German, British, etc. Fighting styles.

Do you love a good trail? Are you a hiker, backpacker, trail runner, or neighborhood saunterer? If so, this conversation is for you! Share your favorite routes, dream trips, the gear you love, where you find inspiration, or essential advice. Got any cool trips planned, in the near or distant future? Whether you’re a newbie or trail-tested veteran, share what you know!

Hey guys!

I do traditional archery, make my own gear, and I love talking about it. If you're not an archer, please feel free to peruse the comments and ask questions if you have any! As for my questions for you:

• How did you get into it?
• What's your setup like?
• What are your archery-related goals and expectations for the year?

My first exposure to archery began as early as Zelda 1 for the NES. I instantly understood the value of being able to attack moblins and gohmas from afar. It was not until the pandemic some 30 years later that I picked up my old man's bow and fell in love with something that I feel I've been missing all of my life. My setup is a 50" cartel doosung epic zen korean bow that reaches 50# @ 32" max draw length with a modified cowhide and deerskin grip. I use only wooden arrows. I tend to draw my bow only to 28", however, which reaches 36#, and that's enough for now as I'm recovering from some shoulder pain. My goals this year are to recover, stay in form, and to make an educational video about arrows.

I’m building a house and will have ample opportunity to walk with the builder to specify outlets, cat 6, and coax runs and locations. What sorts of little things do you wish you had done in your house or would be useful?

I plan to run cat 6 from mostly every room (some in multiple locations) to the office where my servers will be. I will also be running a few runs of cat 6 out to the shop for future connectivity out there. Anything else that might be useful?

I have a box of scrap parts of PLA left over from 3D printing and I'm wondering what to do with them. PLA can apparently biodegrade but only in really specific conditions I don't think I can achieve like keeping it at 60c. I know there is a device that can turn the scraps in to new filament but its way too expensive for me. What should with this stuff?

I'm always in the market for new podcast recommendations, so here are some of mine. All available via your regualar podcasting app, probably.

No Such Thing As a Fish, the QI podcast. Odd facts and trivia. Rarely do I hear things I already know on this one. Obviously it's no Answer Me This but what is?

A Problem Squared, comedian Bec Hill and stand up mathematician Matt Parker answer listener questions, usually in excessive and fascinating detail. The presenters are good friends in non-podcast life and it shows in their chemistry.

The Guilty Feminist, a great mixture of standup comedy and discussion on a wide range of topics. Great selection of guests.

Lateral, Youtuber Tom Scott hosts a panel quiz where lateral thinking is rewarded. Fairly lightweight but still fun.

A Podcast of Unnecessary Detail, the Festival of the Spoken Nerd team do a podcast (Steve Mould, Matt Parker, Helen Arney). It is as you might expect, nerdy facty sciency stuff.

Wheel of Misfortune, comedians Fern Brady and Alison Spittle take listener submissions on unfortunate or embarrassing events and discuss their own misfortunes with a guest with a different topic each episode. More funny than perhaps it sounds.

Hey guys, anyone else into keyboards? Would love to hear about what you use or experiment with, I've only been into the hobby a few months so I am still pretty new. I'd love to hear your guys set up and what got you into it, how it's evolved.

Currently rocking a Keychron Q2 (65%) with Tecsee purple panda switches and Drop MT3 Cyber keycaps - Co piloting this is a KBDcrafts Addams numpad with their s2 engine switches.

I do also have a keychron Q8 (Alice) in transit - I plan to swap the switches to the KBD s2 engine switches as I am really liking them on the numpad. I ordered this model because my carpal tunnel issues are what awoke me to the mechanical keyboard world, the alice layout isn't perfect but better than standard for ergos it looks like.

Early on in the hobby I was convinced I'd be a tactile switch guy, but the s2 engine switches really changed my mind on liking linear, eager to try a full board with them.

This got rambly, but would love to hear from others into the hobby!

I was just in the thread about if stores should stop accepting cash, and to my horror there was many people advocating to getrid of small change

So are there any coin roll hunters here that would be mega bummed out if we got rid of small change?

Here in canada, there's still some neat coins you can find in circulation

with nickels you can still find old laureate crown portraits and even older king George the 6th, and if your super lucky to hit a collection dump, king George the 5th nickels

With dimes there was still many silver dimes you can find in circulation, I recently hit 4 rolls of silver dimes on a hunt, awesome collection dump, thats $370 worth of silver for $20, I rode that high for days

Quarters still have some old silver coins in circulation, but not as many as dimes

And Canada has something bad the americans dont have ARP, alloy recycling program, you see in canada all modern coins are made of steel on this inside, with plating of other metals,like nickel plated steel or bronze plated steel

So dimes and quarter pre 2000 are 100% nickel, and ARP takes them out of circulation

Nickels pre2000 are same alloy American nickels and pre 1982 are 100% nickel, ARP takes both these out of circulation

So in canada us coin roll hunters are scrambling to get the coins we want before ARP does

If there are no coin roll hunters to speak up on tildes, AMA about coin roll hunting

I'll start, Sony A7C, w/ Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 as my main lens. Have a Sony 28-60mm f/4 as well, though its more for where I need a really compact setup.

Looking to get a Tamron 20-40mm f/2.8 for a little extra fov when indoors, while still having some reach. Planning on getting the A7CII when it comes out supposedly later this year according to sonyalpharumors.

Reject modernity, return to analog

Let's talk retro tech, or anything of the sort! What projects or hobbies are you currently working on? Are you leaning towards a crisp hi-fi sound for your turn-table (yo), or just browsing eBay for old broken tech you know you don't need? Is this submission just a cry for help, because I've found myself browsing old Bose Wave systems from days gone by?

I have a box full of old Gameboy motherboards I need to do something with (the current plan is to gift my close friends their own modded Gameboy, because seriously why can't I hold all these Gameboy motherboards). Then there's my AIWA Walkman that needs a new belt, but I've never cracked one of those open before, so we'll see. Then there's this Gameboy Camera mod that is keeping me up at night.

What about you fine folks? I thought about posting this to ~tech, but I thought ~hobbies was just as relevant, since this isn't exactly leading edge stuff (though it may be in the retro tech space!)

I'm on day 4 of a 4 day weekend (lucky me!) here in zone 7b, so I've been spending a lot of time out in the garden. The bunnies and deer have been keeping me busy chasing them out, and have entirely beheaded my tomatoes and peppers, but haven't touched the flowers and herbs at all.

We're on week 4 of very little rain (we got about 5 minutes of thunderstorm two days ago, but that didn't do much more than make the grass wet). I set up an automated irrigation system in my garden bed so it is extremely well watered and lush, and everything else is dry, the grass is yellow and the trees are starting to look wilty. I think that's part of what is attracting the herbivores to my garden, it's like a little oasis, so I can't be too mad about it. Luckily it looks like it's supposed to rain every day next week!

My peas are done for the year, so I pulled them out, and I have lots of tiny green peppers, tomatoes, and cucumbers, but nothing much else. I'm thinking to plant beans where the peas were. Do you have a favorite crop that is harvested in June that can fill this gap? What sorts of things do you plant in June in your zone?

I've been struggling with herbivory indoors too - the stupider cat decided for the first time that transcendentia zebrina was the best thing ever, and took several leaves off. Luckily it's not very toxic, she didn't actually consume much, and she doesn't seem to be showing any symptoms of poisoning, but now I'm trying to figure out how to keep this plant in the same window but out of her reach. Any recommendations for shelves or hanging baskets that would work in front of a window in a bedroom/office?

I also gave my extremely leggy silver ann pothos a haircut, so it looks much better. I cut the trimmings into 3-4 node sections and they are all now in very damp soil to hopefully root - I got 36 sections so I'm sure I'll have at least some successes, although I'm hoping they aren't ALL successful or I will be drowning in pothos!

I'm very on board with the concept of permaculture, and while I understand the concepts I don't have a good intuition for which plants fix which nutrients. For example suppose I grow basil in my herb garden.

How do I figure out which nutrients it will eventually deplete? How do I figure out a good buddy crop(s) to replenish those nutrients?

Any permaculturists out there that can point me in the right direction?

Anyone using a drip irrigation system they can recommend? This would be for watering veggies (and possibly flowers in the future) in raised beds. These are some of the things I’m looking for but I’m getting a bit overwhelmed with all the choices out there:

• network capability, whether that be an app (iPhone) or website I can look at stats and control from
• 2 different garden beds to start with (3’ x 8’), with possibly 2 more in the future
• drip is the only irrigation I’m really concerned with so no need for sprinklers or anything (I don’t think, at least)
• there is only one spigot available for the area the beds are in

I've got a K40 laser engraver that I've had a lot of fun getting up and running with K40 whisperer on a Raspberry pi, and lately I've been thinking about getting a cheap 3d printer. Does anyone have an entry level 3d printer they like and want to recommend? What kinds of projects do you like to make? Anybody have a desktop cnc or other fun toys? Let's hear about 'em.

I have an Aerogarden Harvest. It's a pretty neat little device I picked up a few years ago on sale, and I use it as a starter for my outdoor garden. My outdoor garden inevitably fails due to forgetfulness, rabbits, or bugs. This year, after my lettuce was ravaged for the third time, I decided I'd like to scale up my indoor growing solution. My wife is on board, albeit hesitantly as she knows I'm a utilitarian and give little concern to form once function is established. We have a relatively small space, and no out-of-sight-storage-rooms to utilize for the project.

In short: I'm looking for advice on small scale, low startup cost hydro/aqua/aeroponic DIY projects for leafy greens/herbs that can be made to be "cute" or at least finished-looking, rather than a heap of PVC and 5 gallon buckets.

My best guess currently is one of the single-tower vertical PVC pipe systems with a nice hardwood box built around the 5 gallon bucket sump (lipstick on a pig) or a stacked/tiered NFT system with a nice wooden frame and channels made from some "nicer-looking" gutter.

Has anyone here actually accomplished an indoor grow that they were allowed to keep in their kitchen?

Edit: There's been a lot of great input here. I'm still researching, and if anyone else is going down this road, this channel has been very informative: https://www.youtube.com/@KeepOnGrowin

Since it seems we have a few other cyclists on here, I thought I would ask for a recommendation. I'm looking at bike computers, and I've been going back and forth between Wahoo and Garmin. I don't need anything super fancy, so I've been looking at the Bolt or the 530. I really want it for making a route on the computer, and then getting directions at turns (along with the basics like speed, distance, time, etc.).

My biggest priority is stability and battery life. I've read some reviews of the Wahoo saying it crashed or froze on them, which would be a huge turn off to me. My current "computer" is just a simple magnet on the wheel that runs a sensor - it never crashes or freezes or anything like that, and I change the battery about once or twice a year.

So, I'm curious if anyone has suggestions or experience with these.

And also I just wanted to get more cycling content on here... :-)

Do you Fish? Do you eat them or let 'em go? How'd you get into it and what were the confusing bits? Memory of a good time or lessons you wished someone taught you?

Do you want to try but haven't ever been? Did you fish as a kid and never again? What would make it easier for you to give it a go? Tried your city's "learn to fish" programs? What if you had someone else clean and cook it?

If your experience or interest limited to digital fish only, what's your thoughts on why every game and its predecessor has fishing mini-games? It's the dangnabbit armageddon but let's pause and fish for a bit first. Wild.

inspired by this super cool thread on treasure hunting kind of fishing,

I'm a knitter, cross stitcher, and general nerd. I can't actually create at the moment due to probable carpal tunnel, but I would love to see my fellow fiber artists of any and all genders speak up.

As for me, it's more about the process than the product! I love Grandmother's Favorite dishcloths as a mindless knitting stim, or cross stitching on a project until my hands hurt.

ETA: I'm not trying to ignore everyone. I'm really excited with the responses I'm getting. I'm just fighting some serious pain this morning. I'll try to reply to folks as soon as I can think!

ETA2: This got bigger than I had hoped! I don't think I can catch up and reply to everyone, but I do appreciate reading everyone's experiences! Thanks for humoring me today.

Hey there LEGO enthusiasts - wondering what you all do with kits after you build them? I really enjoy building LEGO (especially large complicated sets) but I don't want LEGO models taking over my house and getting dusty. What do you do?

I'm personally a little busy for 3d printing at the moment - but I love to see and be inspired by what others are doing. I know this is text based, but I'm also interested in what issues you are running into. I find it useful to see examples of what common problems and solutions others are running into.

I've got an "old" Prusa MK3S that is still going strong for me. When I get the time again I've got a few projects lined up: a brain, a mask, and a fluid desk sculpture that I'm excited to get printing.

What have you been printing lately?

Just curious. I've been trying to understand watercolors better. What I love about watercolors: so much expression, so much freedom. It also seems like a uniquely frustrating medium; understanding how much water is needed, how water reacts with certain papers, different types of brushes, etc. (I should mention it's the only painting I do, so maybe this stuff isn't unique to watercolor.)

Curious if there's any other watercolor enthusiasts here. Care to share your experiences, or tips for a novice?

I have 3 gal of blackberry wine aging on oak cubes in a carboy right now. Relatively new to the hobby but my best so far have been elderberry wine (full bodied and tannic, kind of like a Cabernet), and apple wine from store-bought juice (dry and crisp). This fall I'm planning on sourcing some locally grown Pinot Noir and trying my hand at making a "real" wine for the first time.

I'm in zone 4b so it gets frigid here in winter, I'm thinking wood burning stove and I bought the thickest double walled plastic panels for the roof that I could find. I'm just finishing an insulated slab and I'm about to start framing. Please share with me any photos, plans, or guidance you might have! I have no idea what I'm doing!

Hello Tildes geocachers! Found any good caches lately? Going in any good trips? Going to the Greater Bay Area Mega at the end of the month? I would love to know, and meet you online! I’d love to learn more about any interesting caches you’ve found lately and maybe we can discuss puzzles and challenges here.

So I got a 1.20m, 30kg punching bag, and hung it on the upper floor. I don't have boxing gloves yet but my friend suggested I just use cloth bandages on my hands. I'm looking for a boxing gym near me. I'm open to any striking art but I've done taekwondo before and I'd really like to concentrate on boxing now. I can throw basic punches. I've been watching some videos on boxing basics and I think it's awesome. Anything I could start working on for myself?

I'm already confident in self-defense. I don't have any specific reason to do it other than boxing looks fun. It's something I've been meaning to get into for years.

I'm not in shape at all.

Tips are welcome!

First and foremost: I'm not certain whether this belongs in ~hobbies or ~comp. As I consider this a hobby, this seemed like the more appropriate spot, but I'm more than happy to move/repost in ~comp.

So for the past few years, I've really been hit by the computer nostalgia bug. It originally started as me just wanting to dive back into MUDs, and the whole retrocomputing fascination probably came from me wanting to recreate the "good ole' days" where I would pull up the Windows 98 terminal app and connect to my favorite MUD.

Now I've got a room in my house dedicated to this old, esoteric hobby that happens to take up a lot of space. Admittedly, I don't know a TON about hardware but I've been having a blast tinkering around on old machines. It's even more fun to see how I can push the limits of the computers given a few modern tweaks here and there.

Here's what I've currently got sitting up in the Upstairs Museum of Retrocomputing:

• A Compaq Prolinea 5/75 Pentium - this was given to me by a friend who had it sitting in the basement. To my surprise, everything was still in working order and it fired right up (Windows NT 4.0!) on the first try. Of course, I ripped out the old barrel clock battery and put in something safer. I'd say I tinker with this one the most on the software side, while still trying to keep the hardware as close to original as possible.
• A Compaq Prolinea 3/25s 386 - I just picked this bad boy up and am working on getting an OS installed. It had some damage from a leaky clock battery but I don't believe anything was irreversible. I'm not too confident in the whopping 4 MB of memory, but I'm planning on installing Windows 3.11 on this one.
• A Tandy TRS-80 CoCo 2 - It works, but I haven't spent a ton of time with it because I don't have an old TV or monitor with a coax connection. I'd love to figure out how to create my own cartridge with a homebrew version of Zork or Adventure.
• A Power Mac G5 - It's not ancient, but I think it's still worthy of being in the museum. I haven't had a chance to play around with it yet because I don't have the right video cable. I'll get around to it eventually.
• A Generic Pentium 4 - I actually found this one at a Goodwill store. This one fired right up and had a copy of Windows 2000 installed, including all of the old work files that the person left intact. This one has been the easiest to mod because it's somewhat closer to modern and uses a common form factor. So I've plugged in a new OS, new ethernet, etc. At some point the technology starts to blur and you start questioning why you aren't just using a modern computer.

What's next on my list? I'd like to start playing around with computers/OSes that I'm unfamiliar with. I grew up in a DOS/Mac OS 7-10/Windows world, so I'd love to get my hands on a NeXt, BeOS, etc. or even an Apple II.

But first I need to get the damn 386 running again.

In a few weeks, I'll be making a short trip (3 days) to Palo Alto, working in the Stanford Medical Center area.

I'm hoping for some local or experienced insight into "don't miss" destinations for food, culture, history, and sight-seeing. It's likely I'll only have Sunday afternoon and weekday evenings free, so the personal tour may have to be more focused than local guides might otherwise suggest.

My home area has great food, but I'm really starving for Eastern cuisines. I'm willing to go beyond what a corporate travel budget permits if there's truly extraordinary, "can't get anywhere else" dining available.

Your insights are greatly appreciated!

Curious to see and talk with others about using AI to dynamically write personal novels as a hobby, a form of choose-your-own-adventure where you can offload part of the creativity and majority of the grunt-work involved with writing onto the AI.

I started around half a year ago with Novel AI, yet when my stories would reach around the 15,000 word count the context management required due to the 2k token limit caused for a a net negative experience. A few months ago I experimented with ChatGPT at its 4k token limit, but the major cons of the limited ability to edit the content combined with the "always happy" bias hard-wired in made it short lived. That is until I discovered the variant site, Open AI Playground in Chat mode. It isn't free, but the first $5 are free as a trial. (And technically they mention it isn't for entertainment purposes and to use it responsibly)

Using the Playground I've written a 41,000, 23,000, and 21,000 (in-progress, plan is to hit 6 digits) word count personal stories/novels/adventures thus far. Using the co-DM system of bouncing with the AI to suggest creative alternatives (e.g. "List 10 twists that could occur next in the story"), adding creative embellishments (e.g. "Describe the city in detail, using epic high-fantasy influence"), and many other tips it's kept me hooked on some wild adventures across my favorite genre(s), tailored to me.

Edit:
OpenAI just released a GPT 3.5 Turbo 16k model for the Playground, lol. Absolutely obliterating NovelAI's 2k and the previous 4k limits. You could fit a significant portion of an entire novel and it'd take into account every sentence said. It'd probably take a pretty penny to use even half the context window, but could be useful for more critical moments of my novels.

I'm an amateur fish keeper who is looking at buying a new 4ft tank setup.

While on the hunt for a nice looking cabinet and tank combination, I've noticed that most freshwater setups are designed for a canister/ hang on back / in tank filter, whereas saltwater is almost always designed as a sump configuration despite the same physical tank size and capacity.

Is there a reason freshwater tank setups are less likely to be sold in a sump configuration? Does salt benefit more from an overflow style of filtration then freshwater does? Should freshwater be pulling water for filtration from lower in the tank because there's likely slower water movement and therefore debris will settle on the substrate?

As a quick example, AquaOne have a "freshwater" range, and a "marine" range. They are available in comparable physical sizes, but the freshwater tanks are not drilled for sumps whereas the marine are. No matter how fancy / big you go in the freshwater configuration, you never have the option of a sump.

Freshwater list: https://aquaone.com.au/2015-04-16-04-47-04/2015-04-16-06-00-17/coldwater-tropical

Marine list: https://www.aquaone.com.au/2015-04-16-04-47-04/2015-04-16-06-00-17/marine-aquariums

Pun intended.

I'm just getting into bouldering / top roping and need to start my gear hunt. What do you recommend? What things do you stay away from? Right now I'm just climbing indoors with no real plans to go outdoors yet.

I tried looking around a bit but couldn't find anyone that was interested in this. For me it had been on my radar for years through various forums, but I only built my first watercooled PC in 2020. For that I designed and manufactured my own case and now I am working on a second one! It's become a fun hobby that's taught me CAD and more about manufacturing in general.

So I was curious if anyone else is into the same thing here? It's probably a bit more niche than the mechanical keyboard thread I saw!