Most of my family members (notably everyone in the older generation) are variously xenophobic (very), transphobic (plenty) and racist (enough). They're openly right wing populist party voters. In family gatherings, or even in online messaging, I normally ignore them or try to divert the conversation away from their stupid political takes - even the ones who know I am pansexual are likely to say some nasty shit, showing (I believe) that they don't have a drop of respect for me or my gay brother. There is nothing I can ever convince them of, political or not, because (I believe) they will always treat my arguments with disdain, regardless of any reason or evidence. I don't think much better of their politics myself, since I find most of their constant complaining about entire classes of people they've never even interacted with incredibly tiresome, not to mention wholly inconsistent with their supposed christian values (I know, this situation sounds very american, even though I am not.)

I personally believe there is some value in some, but not all, arguments that are for restricting or reorganizing immigration at this time, mainly due to problems stemming from years of lazy policymaking, and in some right wing fiscal policy (we have some extremely expensive and inefficient government programmes right now - NOT health or education - and misguided protectionism of certain huge and mismanaged private companies), so we can usually meet on that common ground.

Today at a gathering an aunt decided out of the blue to loudly proclaim how happy she was that Donald Trump was elected in the US. Other relatives quickly agreed, after which they started a conversation about how a Trump presidency will be good for the economy. At this point I will just politely say I didn't understand what they were talking about (my thoughts weren't as kind at the time); we are not americans, and I have the notion that Trump is an isolationist who admires dictators and despises the EU and doesn't value us as allies; I am led to believe he wants to do things with regard to defense, tariffs, etc. that are unambiguously bad for us and will directly translate into a harder life and more danger for Europeans over the next few years.

A younger relative then said he was happy that we finally had "an insane dictator" on "our side". According to him, none of the crazy authoritarians in the world respected a man like Biden, but they were wary of Trump, since Trump is unpredictable. I remember hearing this argument eight years ago, but I'm not so sure of this. Historically, as I said, Trump seems to me to fawn over strongmen and demagogues leading other nations, while he hasn't exactly conveyed that he is "on our side". As far as I know, he's been suspiciously an enabler of Vladimir Putin, for instance.

So at this point I explained to my family that we weren't there to discuss politics and the politics conversation was to end immediately or I was going to start insulting people.

I'd like you all to tell me if I'm in the wrong here. Am I out of touch? Can you explain my family's perspective to me in a way that makes them sound less insane? This isn't some kind of bait. Just because I don't like Donald Trump (and neither do the majority of people in this community, AFAIK), I pride myself in being a fairly rational person. I can be convinced of things, as long as there's rationally constructed argument underpinning them. Maybe there's some value to their position?

Like I did last time Trump was in office, I've been reading up on authoritarianism and fascism.

Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco
On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder
They Thought They were Free by Milton Mayer

And if you want a hot take from someone who argues that Trump himself is not a fascist but rather something worse, here is a great video from Morbid Zoo. Note: the main argument in this video begins at about 11:30. The lead up is responding to criticisms of her first video on the topic and laying some groundwork for her argument. You'll be fine to start at 11:30.

I wonder still if there is enough fight left in this country to resist him. I wonder if Trumpism will fizzle out upon his death or when he leaves office in four years. I wonder if America's institutions are strong enough, its people just smart enough, to not go that route. I suppose I'm feeling anxiety because I would like to, here and now before I become accustomed to another "new normal," set my boundaries on when there is no going back. I don't want to look back and say that I missed the obvious moment and I should have known. I want to be ready and keep my wife and son safe.

My question is this:

Where is your uncrossable line? What would Trump and crew have to do before you decided to leave by any means with no concern for your debts, possessions, etc.? Or, if the frog is boiled more gradually, when would you start seriously making preparations?

We live in Texas, so abortion is already illegal here. We ordered a plan C pill as soon as Roe v Wade was overturned back in 2022 and just ordered another yesterday, as well. We also went to Costco to get some plan B, just in case, and the pharmacist literally said they'd sold over 100. It's so crazy to me that Trump can win with policies as unpopular as abortion bans, ugh. I worry for my girlfriend and women and LGBTQ+ people across the US, but especially in red states like here.

So this is reality. I warned myself not to take anything for granted with Trump, 2016 happened, but still I was starting to feel hopeful for a minute there. But nope, this is what America looks like now. For now.

This sucks for a lot of Americans, some are justifiably devastated. A lot is uncertain and we all have to figure out how to navigate this version of the country for, at least, the next 4 years. That's of course part of the insanity, that there are big questions about what happens when Trump's term is over. We kinda know there's going to be some level of a coup attempt, we just don't know if it will be successful.

But for the moment I want to put aside the myriad fucked up social, economic and geopolitical implications and explore what it means from a more ideology and identity sort of angle.

This means that we don't live in a just world. When my partner was crying last night, I think that's what she was feeling the loss of most of all. The idea that despite the imperfections of the world, somewhere underneath there is some form of justice based in the fundamentally good nature of human beings.

Intellectually it seems obvious that there is no inherent justice. But emotionally it's a different story. Speaking for Americans, it's not the story we're told growing up in the shining beacon of democracy. The concept of what America is, and who Americans are, that we translate to our childen is missing most of the nuance. And many of us keep that with us emotionally as adults, even if we know better.

The grown up version, the story we tell ourselves in American culture, has more nuance but not as much as you'd hope for. As an example, we've been pretending that giant corporations, conglomerates and the ultrawealthy can serve the public interest for an embarrassingly long time. We've made materialism into an art. A little light to medium evil in our foreign policy is just something we need to accept.

Of course the nuance isn't lost on everyone, a lot of us have a clear view of what America is, and western capitalist democracy writ large, but Trump is president, in part, because a lot of people do not. Full stop. We, as a culture, are telling the wrong stories about ourselves.

But Trump is president, in spite of his escalating rhetoric and Jan 6th and the nazis on parade and the election wasn't even close. So we have to come to terms with what that means about what America is, and who Americans are.

That's going to take time and processing and I'm not sure how that might or should look. I just want to add that this isn't new. This is the country we've been living in for some time. The only thing that's really changed is that we can't rationally tell any other story now.

It's heartbreaking but after we grieve I think we'll have an opportunity, collectively, to come to terms with what we are, good and bad. Which is of course a vital early step in the process of change.

One thing I'd like to add to the conversation, that's been said a lot and still not nearly enough, is that the enemies here are not just bigotry, or ignorance, or extremist religion or lack of security. Perhaps the biggest reason, directly and indirectly, for Trump's second term is unchecked capitalism.

I hope that, as a whole, we'll learn from this, and focus our energy on the right demons. The ones we maybe have to deal with before we can handle the others.

And also I want to say: this is sad and it feels bleak at the moment... and this grief is shared by millions. We're not alone in this. We'll get through it.

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*TRIGGER WARNING: Racist and Anti-LGBTQ topics contained below with hurtful language *

Hello all,

TL;DR: I am wondering if there's any generally recommended resources, books, or general advice (peer-reviewed research would be ideal) on dealing with racist, close-minded family after you have made the transition to more progressive worldviews? I don't really like my family these days because of their Trump support as well as their generally close-minded, reality-denying views. It's weighing on me, because I miss having some sort of good connection with them like I used to. Their health is starting to decline, but I've gotten to the point that I don't really like them that much, and I haven't been going to see them. These two parts of me are kind of at odds with each other, and I'm struggling to find a balance.

Background & Context: I (33M) and I grew up in a rather conservative family (2 older brothers), to the point that a "light" level of racism was generally accepted and talked about in the family, and as an example, jokes using the N-word with the hard R were told by my dad and grandparents semi-regularly. I say "light" racism because we don't have a family history of racial violence or owning slaves (we're descendants of 1900's European immigrants, mostly.) I also think my family generally supported the Civil Rights Act back in the day. As a result, I grew up finding racist and gay jokes funny and frequently repeated them, and generally had a close-minded approach to the world before I went to college - but I never truly wished anyone any ill will. I got along well with my family, and while we were never super close, I at least talked to my family about stuff but we never really shared emotions or talked about depression with each other. None of us ever really learned how to deal with their emotions and talk about them. My family never traveled, either, so I never got out of my home state till I was in high school, and it was of my own volition. My parents are also conservative Christians, so they have generally anti-LGBTQ views. My mom calls LGBTQ people "abominations" per the bible, for example. It's disgusting.

Once I got out into the real world working with people of other cultures and befriending them, my worldviews began to change. Especially once I went to college and started working in scientific research, wherein your critical thinking and objectivity are especially stressed, I started to pivot more and more to progressive views. Beyond that, the more I saw that data generally supported progressive views and policies, I started to disagree harder and harder with my parents on political topics. Additionally, I slowly lost my faith, and started to become more and more annoyed by my mother citing the bible as a reference for topics such as LGBTQ marriage rights. I now commonly refer to myself a recovering Catholic.

And then Trump happened. Honestly, in his first run, I could understand why people voted for Trump. They were tired of traditional politics and feeling like it wasn't working for them, especially in midwest and blue collar areas, so they figured "fuck it, throw some chaos into the system." But after COVID and January 6th? I just can't fathom still having a SHRED of support for that disgusting shell of a man. And yet my parents do. My mom watches Newsmax, thinks COVID vaccines are deadly, and thinks the 2020 election was stolen. She thinks Biden was kidnapped and was being impersonated by the Deep State. I can't. I just can't with her. It's all she wants to talk about, and my dad won't say anything to her about how fucking crazy the shit she spouts is.

I was also close to one of my brothers for many years, as we went to concerts and played games together mostly. We just "click" when it comes to gaming together, and it feels seamless and fun to play with him in a way that it doesn't with anyone else I've ever played with. But then, politics comes up. My brother would probably be aptly described as an incel, in that he reads 4chan still, and also has some batshit crazy views. One, for example, is that he doesn't think the races should mix, because something along the lines of black and white genes don't work as well together. He has straight up said that to me, and I regularly wonder if I should cut off contact with him for that alone. He often blames women in sexual assault cases or characterizes them as gold diggers. A part of me wonders if I am doing a disservice to the aforementioned groups by even still associating with him after saying things like that. If I am also doing a disservice to myself by even sometimes associating with someone who has such an awful worldview?

And herein lies my dilemma: I haven't gone to see my family in over 6 months, now (I live <30 mins away). My parents' health is declining - it is likely that one of them is going to die in the next 5-10 years, and yet I don't even want to go be around them, especially my mom. I still game online with my brother, but this dilemma is slowly eating away at me.

But also? I feel a deep empathy and sorrow for them, to the point that I'm choked up as I'm writing this post because they are lonely people who, in my opinion, have been grossly manipulated and mislead throughout their lives. I wouldn't want someone to give up on me, as I feel I am doing to them by avoiding them. I also used to be deeply entrenched in close-mindedness, and I wouldn't be where I'm at without people who kept trying to convince me of a better path. But the other part of me thinks: Is there a line somewhere? At some point, do you become too deeply entrenched that I can't convince you out of it? What do I do at that point? How do I even define that point?

Are there any resources or books on this topic? Are there any objective things I can do to try and improve this situation and feel better about it? I have spoken with a therapist about this in the past, but I wouldn't describe the feedback I got as very helpful. I would like to go see a therapist again, partially about this, but it's so damn expensive thanks to the American healthcare system. Any input anyone has is appreciated, even if it's anecdotal. This post is also partially just cathartic to write out as it is also to ask for feedback. Thank you.

Texts, documents hint at convicted witness bail bond business owner Scott Hall's wide ties to Coffee County breach, Trump allies ahead of trial

Hall played a part in various post-election events, and he's taken a plea deal. He will testify in the Georgia 2020 election trials.

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/special-reports/ga-trump-investigation/scott-halls-witness-trump-case-georgia/85-ad5ca637-6272-448b-8f52-c0c8aba74ef0

Hall's alleged involvement following the 2020 election reaches beyond the small south Georgia county. This includes personal relationships with those close to the former president.

Several media outlets, including CNN, have reported that Hall is related to David Bossie, chairman of the conservative group Citizens United who briefly led the former president's post-election legal challenges. Bossie's name appears in the Fulton indictment.

In late November 2020, David Shafer introduced Hall to a group of individuals including Robert Sinners, a current spokesperson for the Georgia Secretary of State's office who then worked for Trump's campaign. In the email, Shafer said Hall was "looking into the election" on behalf of the former president at Bossie's request.

This is described in Act 4 in the indictment, though Sinners is referred to as "unindicted co-conspirator Individual 4" by Fulton prosecutors. Sinners has since disavowed the post-2020 election activities that took place in Georgia.

Hall may also know about the letter former Justice Department official Jeffery Clark wanted to send that alleged the agency "identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple States, including the State of Georgia."

Maybe this topic is silly, but I am up from insomnia, so here it goes.

I watched a piece on the news about how the election may come down to teeny tiny little town in Nebraska. I remember a similar situation coming to pass in the 2020 election.

There are many teleworkers now. Many of them are IT people who would be happy anywhere there is a good Internet connection.

I was thinking that a movement to get people to move to where their votes would count the most would be interesting. At least to talk about.

There could be a web site/app that would identify the potential most crucial areas, like that little Nebraska town.

Nomadic and patriotic teleworkers could then move to such places a year in advance of an election, vote, and move on if they aren't happy in those places.