Meat eaters of Tildes - what have you tried to make use more ethical?

I guess one thing my SO and I have been doing is just loading up meals with way more vegetables and beans. Like meals that used to be 1:1 meat to vegetable might be 1:3 meat to vegetable. Which usually works out well.

It's so time intensive to find foods that are somewhat friendly toward animal welfare and ecologically low impact. Yesterday I found myself pondering whether free range or cage free was better for the chicken. There is a store near me that sells beef, bison, pork, etc from local ranchers which I can see from driving past them they don't seem to be factory farm operations. It's just a whole separate trip to make so I don't do it frequently.

Long story short is, it's on my mind, but I don't feel like I have time to make sure everything I eat is from l good sources. It would be a full time job to go around to every farmers market and ranch and buy food. I've though about buying a quarter cow but I would have to buy another freezer.

I think hunting is the most ethically sourced food I have. But that's not sustainable for the masses. I do feel better about eating an elk that roamed free its entire life and was harvested quickly with a clean shot than the horrors cattle, swine, and chickens go through at factory farms.

Because this is Tildes and not Some Other Site, I'm going to assume this is a good faith question to have some friendly but serious debate and discussion. Given that assumption:

1. I'm not sure we can source our meat more ethically than we already do. We buy as close to the farming source as possible and indeed do voluntary work for a local community farm picking up meat from the abattoir, and again buy some of that directly. We ensure we only buy from places with established animal welfare policies in place that go well beyond what the law requires. We are also both qualified and licensed deer stalkers and have taken our own meat in the past, although we haven't done this since covid - we now buy venison from our local butcher (who shoots it himself) and we shoot the deer with cameras instead.

2. My wife is an exceptional cook (I am not) and we both like the taste of properly cooked vegetables - she just makes very flavoursome food packed out with veg. This in itself means we need less meat to have a full meal although this isn't to eat less meat, it's because it's what we enjoy - if we have a roast dinner there is a giant slab of meat there because that's "appropriate" for the meal. If we go out for dinner and have a meal we enjoy that's mostly meat then great.

3. Honestly, none, and we've tried a few. They've all had something odd about them either in flavour or texture. It's also how we found out my wife is mildly sensitive to soy and if she eats large quantities of it (say with tofu) it exits out the back pretty fucking quickly. The best meat free dishes I've had didn't try to pretend to be meat, they thrived on their own merit.

My wife has been a vegetarian since she was like 8 years old, so it just makes sense to not eat any meat at home. In addition to that I've made the decision to only eat meat if we're at a good restaurant or if it's served to me which already reduces my intake significantly.

I'm not particularly opposed to the eating of meat itself, but rather the industrialisation of it and the ramifications of said industrialisation on this scale. I'm inherently opposed to banning choice and as such, think people that want to eat meat should simply... eat less of it. There's just no defending the practice when you see the impact on climate and if everyone ate less, it would already help. Considerably. Consumerism isn't just material stuff like luxury cars. Eating meat daily is part of that too.

My husband and I have been on a journey of reducing consumption and purchasing more "humane" meat as our budget allows. Being able to purchase those items is a luxury and not a privilege that everyone has. Additionally cooking decent vegetarian meals is a skill that takes time that not everyone has. With that said:

1. I try to purchase the majority of my meat from Whole Foods. I hate the association they have with Amazon, but it is the best option I have locally for acquiring any meat that has some form of animal welfare considerations. They have their own GAP in addition to carrying products with the Certified Humane labeling. I understand that these labels have come under fire in the past and Vox has a great write up diving into what they actually mean, but it's the best option I have for my area. Some of these labels and certifications have more meaning or higher guidelines for others, so I try my best to vote with my wallet on these. We have stripped out basically all beef with a rare exception for a good burger or Italian meatballs. Oddly enough the only co-op or direct from farm meat I can buy in my area is beef.
2. Indian dishes are a great start to eating and cooking vegetarian based meals. There are loads of flavorful, veggies and bean packed offerings and each region of India has their own takes. Learning how to cook tofu properly is a valuable skill that takes some trial and error. My best method I've found is using Firm/Extra Firm, draining it from the package, cutting it into cubes, then setting it to dry overnight in the fridge on a baking sheet lined with paper towels or extra thick table setting mats with additional layer on top. The next day it's ready to be marinated or coating for frying, and this method works in under a few hours if needed. America's Test Kitchen: The Complete Plant Based Cookbook is also an amazing resource that I used heavily when I first started exploring plant based cuisine. The spine is falling apart on my copy due to how much I have used it.
3. Tofu! And I actually kinda prefer it compared to some of the meat alternatives. I guess because it's not attempting to be something, but instead is it's own being. It's been the most rewarding thing to learn how to cook as I have gotten better with it; even my tofu tacos satisfied a devout meat eater. Tahini marinated Tofu has been one of my favorite discoveries and the most rewarding when it comes to taste.

I've decided to go for a "fake vegetarian" approach to eating meat. I figure that eating 90% less meat is 90% as good as being vegetarian. I also buy non-dairy when I feel like it's comparable or better - right now that means buying Oatly milk and vegan protein powder.

Honestly it's been really really easy. I feel like everyone should do this. I eat a lot of beans, peas, eggs, and diary for protein. I've put on some muscle since doing this (not without putting in effort at the gym, though). I generally feel better when eating a vegetarian meal than a meat one. And I can still eat meat socially - as many people do with consuming alcohol. The worst part of being vegetarian seems to be making yourself into a nuisance for others when picking restaurants, running BBQs, etc.

My wife and I raise chickens and Muscovy ducks. The chickens are laying hens and we use the eggs from our ducks, but once we let the ducks hatch a clutch we keep the largest one or two males and butcher the others.
Muscovy is a great option as it is a red meat bird, so you would cook the duck breasts like a steak and not like other poultry. It's very lean and sustainable for backyard flocks like ours.
We also try to use mushrooms in many of our dishes.

I was vegetarian for several years, but I started eating meat again about six months ago because I was experiencing a serious medical issue. (I kind of feel the need to talk about it a bit because until I experienced it first-hand I thought "having to eat meat for health" was a very bad excuse. It's also a tangent so I'll put it under a cut.)

The main way I try to reduce my impact is by doing my best to not contribute to factory farming. I get a vast majority of my meat and eggs from a local farm via a seasonal membership, although it's quite expensive and I understand it's not an option for everyone. I still eat a lot of beans and lentils and tofu, with my favourite alt proteins being tempeh and TVP. When I go out to eat I always order vegetarian as well.

When I cook with meat not a single part gets thrown out or wasted if I can help it. I save all of my bones and scraps for broths and soups. I render fat and skin into lard or schmaltz and any other part that I can't or won't eat becomes dinner for the pets if it's safe for them to consume. If it's a shame that an animal dies for the meat, it's even more of a shame for any usable part to rot uselessly in a dump - the thought is horrible to me.

I have also stopped purchasing beef at all due it its particular outsize impact on the climate (and love for cows); I'm on the fence about pork as well. I'm in kind of a weird spot right now overall with the ethics of food, honestly.

Finally, I volunteer at a local nonprofit that focuses on sustainable, well-rounded communities, which of course involves food security and local farmers. While I'm not on any food-related committees directly, my role is to help raise money for the organization as a whole to support them. I mostly plan events, do some light IT, and write lots of letters. It's not super direct, but the money I raise goes into stuff like maintaining our community gardens. That can enable people to have access to low-impact, fresh produce without access to a yard.

I was vegetarian since birth, then started eating fish about 10 years ago, and started eating chicken about a year ago (I had to go gluten free and it was just so hard trying to find gluten free and vegetarian products. I don’t always have the time or energy to cook from scratch) so I’m coming at this from the opposite direction than most people.

I eat chicken once or twice a week and fish maybe once a month (usually only eat fish when eating out because I suck at cooking it).

1. I do think about the ethics, but I don’t necessarily trust that it makes a difference. I still find it worth buying in case I’m wrong though.

2. I love vegetables so all my meals are very veg heavy. When I eat chicken it might be half a chicken breast. Even when I make a bolognese using fake beef I’ll add red lentils and extra veg to up the fibre and flavour.

3. I grew up eating a lot of the fake meats so I like them all. My husband (who used to be a “it’s not a real meal if there’s no meat” guy) likes some of it too - the Fry’s brand schnitzels are so yummy. My husband will eat most of the fake meats, he says you just have to not think of it as a meat replacement and think of it as its own thing instead. I also love tofu (the thing to remember with tofu is that it’s like bread - it’s just a vessel for other flavours).

1. I have not done much to try to source ethical meat. i would like to, and i think it's important, but most of the methods of doing that are prohibitively expensive for me, or require more space than i have, or are mired in my own cynicism - meaning, like, when someone says 'cage free chicken' in the U.S. I know that doesn't really mean what it means on the surface. It's hard to put any trust into someone selling you something because businesses are intentionally misleading.

2. I can eat vegetarian for long stretches of time, but not vegan. My main source of protein can be protein shakes for a long time, totally eliminating any need for meat in my meals. My real food tends to just be veggies, nuts, fruits, and rice. I will get something like chicken teriyaki once a week.

3. I like the quorn products, but they're hard to find near me and they're pricey. Beans and rice are always a classic - but the beans are hard on my stomach. Protein shakes are palatable, but I wouldn't call them tasty - they're more just a means to an end. Same with fried tofu.

I set this protein requirement calculator for a 25 year old active man who is six feet tall and 200 lbs.

https://www.nal.usda.gov/human-nutrition-and-food-safety/dri-calculator/results

Result: 73 grams a day.

The British and the W.H.O. protein requirements are lower.

The biggest culprit for greenhouse contributions, water usage, and energy expenditures is beef.

Decide to eat beef twice a week or whatever number that suits you. Then eat something else.

A different kind type of meat, dairy products, seafood, legumes, etc.

You can use a food diary site like cronometer.com for 1-2 weeks to see if you get enough protein with your new habits.

You can go the easy route and just observe the international "Meat Free Monday"
https://meatfreemondays.com/

As far as sourcing goes, I haven't changed anything. It's just not worth (to me) paying 2x-3x the price, and cost is a factor for me when it comes to diet and ingredients.

But what I do try and to is to use as much of the animal as I can. The meat that we eat the most of is chicken. I buy whole chickens, part them out myself and make stock with whatever is left so that I don't waste any of it.

I can't really do this with beef due to the size of the animal, but we eat very little of it anyway (mostly due to cost and dietary/health reasons). Same goes for pork - we eat even less of that than beef.

One change I did make in the past few years is just eating less meat in general. I used to have meat with every meal, and now I cook 1 out of 4 meals per week vegetarian. Even with our meat dishes, I use a lot more vegetables than I used to. Dietary reasons were the main factor for this, but it has overall helped reduce our meat consumption in general.

So I guess at the end of the day, the changes that we made were not driven by ethics, but better ethics were a byproduct of the dietary changes we made.

1. I kinda try to eat poultry only (chicken and sometimes turkey) and get it from brands that I've found to be more ethical based on some cursory research. Honestly though I don't think I really do enough on that front.
2. It's... not the healthiest choice... but I just eat less meat and replace it with carbs or veggies until I feel full enough.
3. Morning Star's chikn nuggets are good! A little different from real chicken but quite tasty, to the point where I've switched to them for lunches and other quick meals. Edamame is a good snack, too, but probably not a good replacement for meat entirely. I'd like to try experimenting with tofu a bit to see if that's something I can add, too.

After several years of experience in the slaughter industry we've cut our meat intake substantially.

1. The only way you will ethically source most meat is by purchasing from a local supplier. We are fortunate to have a local butcher who accredits and sources his meat from a 60 miles radius. Really your best bet is to just reduce meat from your diet. My personal rule is that I do not purchase red meat for consumption at home. I will eat it if prepared for me or at a restaurant. I eat 4 oz of red meat a week (a burger from my favorite food truck on fridays). I avoid pork entirely, they are too smart and their conditions during farming are likely the worst. We use chicken, turkey, or salmon several times a week at home.
2. Just make good veggie dishes. We love split pea soup, lentils, roasted veggies and chickpeas, chilis, curries.
3. Tofu and Tempeh are both excellent sources of protein. I also supplement protein with shakes and cottage cheese to fill in the gaps. We've tried many meat substitutes but a veggie dish without pretending to have meat tends to be better than shoehorning something fake in.

I’m a deer hunter and my wife is a vegetarian. So unless I’m cooking up some venison that I harvested, I try to cook vegetarian meals.

I also supplement with vegan protein, (Orgain) and that seems to keep me satiated and satisfied.

We almost exclusive use Beyond Meat or Impossible in place of beef now, both come in chuck which allows a lot of versatility, from custom size burgers (love thin burgers, smash burgers, etc), to meatballs, to ground, and more. When we do eat real meat it's the flair to the dish, not the main course.

My wife stumbled upon Dr. Praeger's brand of plant based products and we've really enjoyed them. The Perfect Fiesta Burger is our go-to, but the kale burger is also pretty tasty. To me, they aren't trying so hard to be meat-like, but the fiesta burger has a nice consistency / firmness to it. They have other things as well, like General Tso's chicken, that we've enjoyed.

We've also tried Jack & Annie's brand "chicken" nuggets (made with jackfruit) that are pretty tasty.

One of our local vegan cafes uses BeHive seitan products. The chorizo burrito they make is quite good.

Beyond that, tofu makes a regular appearance in our meals.

My wife eats closer to vegetarian / plant-based than I do, but my meat consumption has definitely decreased in favor of plant-based alternatives. If you had told me 10 years ago that I'd be eating less meat, I'm not sure I would have believed you.

Until recently I had chickens for meat and eggs. I want to get a goat for dairy products but that might wait until after inflation settles down, we had to relocate recently.

I shop a lot for cost, so i apply some of these of these when there are sales/opportunities. I also cant really eat tofu or other processed 'plant based' fake meats.

1. Mostly eat eggs and legumes. Eggs are nice when sourced from local farms, but its often not possible for me to do this. For legumes, i eat a lot of lentil and veg soups, black bean soup, dal, or persian recipes with yellow split peas.
2. Bacon I portion out and freeze and use as a flavorant in dishes. A pack often lasts a year, so it's feasible to shell out for good stuff.
3. I look out for sales on chicken and pork raised without antibiotics, and buy in bulk+freeze when available.
4. As a treat, source local, small scale farms.
5. I used to have a great, cheap source for bones from local farms, without antibiotics. I'd make broth and also salvage the small pieces of meat from the bones to use in soups. I really miss this one and would love to find something similar in my current location.
6. For ground meat dishes like meatloaf and even burgers, sub in some pre-cooked red lentils or black beans to bulk out the dish.
7. Been considering taking up small game hunting one day, but that'd be longer term and Im not sure if it's really for me.

It sucks that finding ethical sources of meat will always be dubious unless I show up to the farm myself (thanks capitalism)... Various ethical labels and companies have been subject to controversy; I try to avoid brands that have been exposed for lying about their humane practices. When budget allows, I refer to the ASPCA Shop With Your Heart resource. There is a gradient of humane conditions implied by the labels, but I'll do what I can to reduce my "cruelty footprint".

In terms of cooking, I find it easier to swap out the meat if it's a component of the dish rather than the star of the show. For example, I've added chickpeas instead of chicken to my Greek bowls, tofu instead of beef to my curry, hard boiled eggs instead of ham to my salad, more beans to my chili. I apply the same techniques to get the most flavor out of ingredients: browning ingredients, frying spices, deglazing the pan. My secret boost of umami flavor is a handful of nutritional yeast. For direct meat replacements, I'll get vegan ground beef, sausage, chicken strips, nuggets, corn dogs, burger patties, etc. I like the taste of Impossible Foods and Gardein the best, then Morning Star, and then Beyond.

Tasty vegetarian protein sources include cheese, yogurt, and eggs. For vegan sources, you might be surprised to find that peas, broccoli, and sweet potato have some protein. So do some nuts and seeds, though they are calorie dense. Rice, quinoa, and millet are grains that also contain a little bit of protein.

Chicken and eggs that are "certified humane", they're a real third party organization that observes the process to see if it's actually humane. Unlike grassfed, cage free, free range, and other bullshit tags that do the bare MINIMUM to be what they say.

Like for instance free range chicken means they only have to be outside and see the sky or some bullshit. So they'll pack them in giant hangers and have a small door with a 3x3 cage that they can see the sky from

This is a little easier for me since I live in a rural farming region, and my family operates a small farm. To clarify, they own less than 15 cattle on a small 33 acre farm. So, I know pretty much everything about how the cows were treated, what kind of food they ate, and what kind of life they had. Heck, sometimes I'm the one out there feeding them! It's as simple as popping over to my parents house to pick up 20-30 pounds of meat. In the past we've also raised pork and chickens (for eggs, not meat).

As for cooking, I remember something my old biology professor said: In most countries, meat makes an appearance at the meal rather than being the meal. I don't cook hamburgers, I make spaghetti with meat sauce. I don't serve steak, I make beef curry over rice. Why have a whole chicken breast on a plate when I can shred it and add it too a broccoli cheese and rice casserole? Or, even better, chicken fried rice? It's better for the environment and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than making meat the main course of the meal.

I think the only exceptions are that I occasionally make chicken strips, and whenever I cook fish (like tilapia, pollock, salmon, etc) I usually serve it as the main course.

1. There isn't much difference between brands within my country so not much alternatives. Though what exactly did you mean by ethical ?

2. Pure meat dishes ( especially red meat ) are not easily accessible due to price anyway so you usually mix it with vegetable/grain dishes or you add small amounts of mince to give just enough flavor.

3. Chickpeas,lentils, bulgur wheat,beans.

This is purely for my own health but I eat vegan cheese instead of cheese. So .. like vegan cheese on some roast beef or vegan cheese on chicken.

Vegan cheese is not that tasty, but once you learn how to use it you can work around it's problems. The health benefits are worth it.

edit: sorry I totally forgot to mention the point of my post ---> regular cheese is really really bad for the environment : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u_sLantkq4

I just want to point out that there is no such thing “more ethical” source for meat. There is only least unethical sources of meat.

I love cooking with tofu. I’ve cooked many meals for my friends and family that they absolutely loved. Sometimes they even ask me to make the meals for them. With Tofu, you have to make sure to get most of the water out. Then it’ll soak up whatever sauces/flavors you introduce to it. Also rice and beans are delicious!

I think it’s easy to veganize many meals nowadays, because there are many types of imitation meats available. I believe meat consumption should be a delicacy. The only times I eat meat are; A, when there is going to be wasted food, otherwise thrown away food. And B, for special occasions, like a wedding or traditional celebrations.

Animal agriculture is a high factor in global warming and destroying our planet. We should all find more ways to eat ethical sources of food and animal products are the most unethical sources for food.

1. I've tried hunting. That way I know where my food came from and how it died.
2. I don't normally change the cooking method (barbecue, bake, stove top skillet etc), but I do use recipes that have veggies, eggs, and cheese.
3. Beans, spinach, asparagus, broccoli, cheese, eggs, yogurt, most everything really.

• We eat Clarence Court eggs, which are expensive but guaranteed high welfare and have offered tours of their farms
• Eat a lot of wild venison, which has had a free life until a clean bullet has dispatched it - probably the least painful way to die for a wild animal
• Gone from “meat everyday” to meat 2-3 times per week
• Free range meat if we do purchase farm meat
• Pad our meals with tonnes more vegetables which in turn has made us healthier!

I try to eat "ethically". I define it as "more ethical than the current average".

For meat it's currently avoiding any 4-legged animals, especially pig. They're too smart to be just food.

And if I do get the need for beef, I buy the top-shelf stuff where I know the exact local farm it came from and I know it's not a multi-million head South-American megafarm with most likely very dubious attitude towards animal welfare.

The same with eggs, factory farmed eggs used to be the norm, I bought free range eggs. Now the standard has changed here and everything except for the cheapest are free-range, so I've switched to organic.