I'm sorry but this kind of reads like 'an agoraphobic's list of places they'll never go'. I've worked in the food industry for a long time as well as have my food-safe certification - not to...
Exemplary
I'm sorry but this kind of reads like 'an agoraphobic's list of places they'll never go'. I've worked in the food industry for a long time as well as have my food-safe certification - not to mention have no outstanding cases of causing food poisoning.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't trust my 'I haven't made anyone sick' as a source to listen to (that could just be luck or a bias) but will instead talk about my experiences getting food poisoning.
I've done most of this writer's 'no-list' without error but I've also been cautious. Never accept food that has the 'moisture + protein' combo if it's been at room temperature for 1 hr or more. Never accept somethint where people who make it don't believe in sanitation or hand washing.
But so long as you're cautious and understand where /how your food is being made, it can be OK. Just never eat sushi from cheap places by the beach unless you know how they care for their fish. I couldn't help it - a sunset, Asahi, and sushi...
Just remember - unless it's REALLY bad, you can't taste food poisoning.
Yeah, I was interested but "never eat outside" and "never eat buffets" were enough to make me stop reading but such amazing information as "Use different cutting boards to avoid cross...
Yeah, I was interested but "never eat outside" and "never eat buffets" were enough to make me stop reading but such amazing information as "Use different cutting boards to avoid cross contamination." Well fuck me, no need to renew my SafeServe certs, I'll just direct the health department to this article!
But, c'mon, never reheat rice? So, never eat fried rice? Never eat out, at all? Just stay home and burn all your food and you'll never have to deal with any risk at all.
https://www.bhg.com/recipes/how-to/food-storage-safety/leftover-rice-food-poisoning/ The issue with reheated rice is more about storage; if you pop it in the fridge right away you can reheat and...
The issue with reheated rice is more about storage; if you pop it in the fridge right away you can reheat and eat; if it’s been sitting on the counter for several hours then toss it.
Right, that's correct. The author of the article wrote "never" not "with safe storage, you minimize risk." That's why I'm saying it's nonsense. Using their background as a microbiologist to claim...
Right, that's correct. The author of the article wrote "never" not "with safe storage, you minimize risk." That's why I'm saying it's nonsense. Using their background as a microbiologist to claim you should never, under any circumstances, reheat rice or you'll be vomiting and shitting everywhere is at best silly and at worst clinically paranoid.
Another personal anecdote, but I leave rice out often to cool to room temp before I put it in the fridge. Few hours if I remember, sometimes out longer if I forget. Never had any obvious food...
Another personal anecdote, but I leave rice out often to cool to room temp before I put it in the fridge. Few hours if I remember, sometimes out longer if I forget. Never had any obvious food poisoning issues, but probably should start diving them into smaller containers to cool faster though. But FYI never put hot foods in the fridge, that makes it easy for food already in the fridge to spoil faster.
Do you have scientific evidence to back up your claim? No offense, but that sounds like something that while it might make sense in your head, doesn't actually matter in reality. Either that, or...
Do you have scientific evidence to back up your claim?
No offense, but that sounds like something that while it might make sense in your head, doesn't actually matter in reality. Either that, or maybe it only applied to older, less efficient refrigerators. Maybe if you still have a fridge that struggles to cool, OR if you just really over pack your fridge like a tetris game, then you still may run into issues, but refrigerators cool very quickly (when running properly) so they realistically should not struggle to remove the excess heat your hot item is putting out into the cooled air compartment before it actually impacts your other chilled items
Plus, putting a hot item in the fridge will actually help cool it down faster, which may actually make an argument as to why you should put your hot food directly into the fridge
When you allow foods to cool on the counter, they're in the danger zone for bacteria growth much longer than when they are quickly chilled in a refrigerator
Usually I wouldn't reply to older threads, but I felt like it was important to discuss this, because leaving foods out to cool before refrigeration can actually cause much more harm than good
Thank you!! Back in college when I survived out of a mini fridge, my thought behind this was definitely appropriate. Many sad instances of discovering spoiled foods, so I tried to mitigate by...
Thank you!!
Back in college when I survived out of a mini fridge, my thought behind this was definitely appropriate. Many sad instances of discovering spoiled foods, so I tried to mitigate by minimizing hot foods in there. I was also taught this growing up (with a very old fridge).
Well I'm out of college now, and have a more modern refrigerator now, so I guess TIL that rm temp cooling isn't a necessary step for me and my fridge. Appreciate the effort to explain this!!
If you're concerned about raising the temp of the fridge, put your rice in a plastic container and leave it in an ice bath for a bit (big mixing bowl with ice water). Don't do this with glass...
If you're concerned about raising the temp of the fridge, put your rice in a plastic container and leave it in an ice bath for a bit (big mixing bowl with ice water). Don't do this with glass containers, it's not worth the risk of shattering with thermal shock.
You can get the temp down more quickly and get it into the fridge faster.
Another way is to cool things on a sheet pan or a wide, shallow container. Although it isn't as fast as an ice bath, the more surface area of the product you expose to room temperature, the faster...
Another way is to cool things on a sheet pan or a wide, shallow container. Although it isn't as fast as an ice bath, the more surface area of the product you expose to room temperature, the faster things will cool.
I spent some time in a village in the hills in the Dominican Republic sleeping on the floor of the schoolhouse, we had no fridge and kept food out for a day or two without refrigeration. Didn’t...
I spent some time in a village in the hills in the Dominican Republic sleeping on the floor of the schoolhouse, we had no fridge and kept food out for a day or two without refrigeration. Didn’t get sick.
The one time I did get sick was when I had a vegan burger with mayo at a friend’s house.
Went to Mexico several times, ate all the street food, drank all the agua fresca too, and the only time I got sick was from a fancy vegan place. The only reason why I went there in the first place...
Went to Mexico several times, ate all the street food, drank all the agua fresca too, and the only time I got sick was from a fancy vegan place. The only reason why I went there in the first place was because we were celebrating someone's birthday 🥲
I’ve always humorously viewed it as building my immune system and gut strength. I had an ex that would throw things away that fell on the floor/were left out/expired before I saw them so I...
I’ve always humorously viewed it as building my immune system and gut strength. I had an ex that would throw things away that fell on the floor/were left out/expired before I saw them so I wouldn’t eat them lol
I grew up being fed that kind of stuff (sometimes you gotta eat what you have or you don’t eat) so it never really bothered me.
Only got food sickness once, visiting said ex’s family in Mexico. Was super careful then too, but new environments can be brutal without being accustomed to it
So storing rice in the cooker for up to 2 days at a time isn't recommended? I guess I can start putting it in the fridge. :/ The more I learn about food poisoning the more I wonder how I've never...
So storing rice in the cooker for up to 2 days at a time isn't recommended? I guess I can start putting it in the fridge. :/
The more I learn about food poisoning the more I wonder how I've never poisoned myself.
it's also about how you cook it. pressure cooker will knock out B.cereus spores, but a rice cooker/stove-top won't.
The issue with reheated rice is more about storage; if you pop it in the fridge right away you can reheat and eat; if it’s been sitting on the counter for several hours then toss it.
it's also about how you cook it. pressure cooker will knock out B.cereus spores, but a rice cooker/stove-top won't.
I’ve asked a few microbiologists about how knowledge of their field shaped their lives. They generally fell into two camps; the hypochondriacs like the author of the posted article, and the...
I’ve asked a few microbiologists about how knowledge of their field shaped their lives. They generally fell into two camps; the hypochondriacs like the author of the posted article, and the complete opposite behavior. For the latter, they’re not out there licking doorknobs, but they also would happily eat at a buffet or picnick.
Dr. Rebecca Lancefield's Eggnog recipe is one of those interesting tales of how a Microbiologist used her knowledge to perfect her recipe, while also keeping it safe! By spiking the eggnog, it...
Dr. Rebecca Lancefield's Eggnog recipe is one of those interesting tales of how a Microbiologist used her knowledge to perfect her recipe, while also keeping it safe! By spiking the eggnog, it allowed it to sit and "mellow" thus adding a more complex flavor profile while preventing salmonella. NPR had a segment featuring a Microbiologist from her alma mater, Rockefeller University, test a batch to back the idea with evidence. Her work and recipe creation has made me curious about other Microbiologist who've used their knowledge to do the same.
I've been wanting to attempt the recipe after seeing Adam Ragusea's video on it. It requires a little bit of advanced planning, but it might be something I attempt this holiday season.
I'll add, don't trust meal boxes. Getting a few people to wash their hands is one thing, getting 100 people to do that is expensive. I had to look like a jerk because the in law family I was...
I'll add, don't trust meal boxes. Getting a few people to wash their hands is one thing, getting 100 people to do that is expensive.
I had to look like a jerk because the in law family I was staying with actively left food out all day. Meat, eggs, salad, you name it. My partner got very serious for poisoning, but at least he wasn't rude. Definitely stand up for yourself and say no thank you. It was in the middle of nowhere, so it's not like I could leave, either. Such a nightmare.
I was confused too for a moment, for some reason I didn't connect the term "meal box." I kept thinking of styrofoam containers and being confused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal_kit With that...
I was confused too for a moment, for some reason I didn't connect the term "meal box." I kept thinking of styrofoam containers and being confused.
Yeah, I had both of those thoughts, but meal box just sounds like one meal per box, so I'm not sure. I figured I'd just let them know exactly what they meant rather than guessing.
Yeah, I had both of those thoughts, but meal box just sounds like one meal per box, so I'm not sure. I figured I'd just let them know exactly what they meant rather than guessing.
It's logistically challenging to bring a team of 100 people up to any standard, let alone personal hygiene that affects people you'll never meet. Its one thing to have someone stand at the door as...
It's logistically challenging to bring a team of 100 people up to any standard, let alone personal hygiene that affects people you'll never meet.
Its one thing to have someone stand at the door as everyone comes in for their shift, but, if everyone takes the full amount of time washing their hands, which next to no one does even after food safe handling, the line up at the limited hand wash stations bottlenecks. Many people also rush and skip this step, to put on gloves, if no one is there to watch them.
A basic understanding of gloves and food safety is not covered in food safety courses well enough to create a full understanding or care of gloves. Many people see them as a catch all, easy trade off of convenience for cleanliness. 99.9999% of people do not wash their hands every time they change their gloves. While working at near-refrigerator temperatures, most people who want to keep their fingers from going numb wear personal, cloth gloves on top of their gloves and under gloves again, which is cross contamination. In terms of a basic understanding of cross contamination, many people touch many other things, including boxes; their body; hard surfaces; and come back from the washroom, touching door knobs and whatever else, without concern. People regularly touch their phones on the work floor, which are typically used in very personal situations. Explaining and/or enforcing this nebulous idea is very difficult.
Maintaining a standing for washing fruits and vegetables is very difficult. When there are two people on the same page, they can teach eachbother. When there are 100 people being literally timed and chastised, threatened with warnings and firing as one new manager's managers manager decided, an open workplace of teamwork and knowledge sharing get more and more difficult. It was already difficult to be team wash-the-vegetables please. The skins of fruits and vegetables have things like salmonella in it, and, as these lots of food kept out of refrigerator temperatures (for hours as someone works on 100's of portions by hand) the food is often mishandled. Food hits the ground but will never touch the sink. Washing something like kale properly meant submerging your hands into ice cold water for 20 minutes at a time, if you insisted your group do it. For the individual, there is also a social cost to following food safety procedure or even common sense, because your co-workers will resent you for it. Many will refuse to wash the kale or insist on one rinse, which is just the leaves swimming in dirt. Kale was the only vegetable that was ever washed. A planned process and individual worker advocacy does nothing when the work is unpleasant and no one wants to do it.
In terms of food storage, the kits were given a multi-day shelf life, but many of the components were madeamy days before being sent out. This means, food that hasn't been washed, that's been improperly stored and mishandled, is considered good to eat many days past when it should be, and that's not communicated to the customer. They are told it's freshly prepared. For many weels, old food (such as precut butternut squash) would be kept for another weeks recipes. This is fine in my personal household at times, but I would never sell food to anyone and mislead them about how long it's been sitting around for.
We had many, many complaints of bugs on our greens. When a piece of metal was recieved by a customer, we were simply told not to let that happen again, go go team. I think that some people did care, and if you ever have a problem with your meal kit, please let the office know; however, given my experience with business model of the meal kit service as it grew in size, I do not believe it's rational to expect cleanliness from these start ups.
So, yeah. I could go on into specifics, but I think these examples stand for themselves. The food is still, fine, I ate it as part of my compensation, but I don't have immunocompromised children or adults in my household. It's about whether you want to. I recommend washing all greens, whether they're from a kit or whether they've been triple washed, if any of that bothers you. A lot of food is still good, but, as a chef I worked under said, people are paying for this food. It should be better.
Based on my personal life experience and efforts, absolutely. If you don't believe me, that's your own world view. Edit: not to be snarky, sorry. I did reply in length to someone else that responded.
Based on my personal life experience and efforts, absolutely. If you don't believe me, that's your own world view.
Edit: not to be snarky, sorry. I did reply in length to someone else that responded.
I worked for 5 years in the ministry of health, department of food and feed, in Italy We have one if the most strict regulations in terms of food safety. I've seen the number of alerts that come...
I worked for 5 years in the ministry of health, department of food and feed, in Italy
We have one if the most strict regulations in terms of food safety. I've seen the number of alerts that come through (most from Chinese imports, sorry to confirm the stereotype) but that never made me as fearful as the person writing that article, on the contrary, it made me confident that it would be very hard for something bad to end up in my fridge.
Your mileage may vary in other countries so, the best thing you can do is do your research on how your country is determining what's safe and what's not.
That article feel like the personal vent of a germophobe, sorry
The statement "Do not eat meat if its internal temperature is less than 70℃ (158ºF)." already lost me... Sure, if your primary goal in life is to avoid food poisoning, that might be justifiable....
The statement "Do not eat meat if its internal temperature is less than 70℃ (158ºF)." already lost me... Sure, if your primary goal in life is to avoid food poisoning, that might be justifiable. But otherwise, people do tend to eat for pleasure, and cooking meat to that temperature ruins most meats.
So the question is, am I to interpret this as an insightful look into a germaphobes head, or as advice? Because if it's the latter, the authors priorities seem far out from what I'd consider normal, and it overshadows all other advice for me for the remainder of the text - how serious should I take their other advice if this simple tidbit is already so far from what I'd consider reasonable? I guess it ultimately depends on where in the safety vs pleasure scale one falls, and the beginning already signals to me that the author is very far away from me.
As an aside, the authors position also also just seems wasteful to me - advocating to never take home leftovers might be safer, but it's also a very unsustainable position in a country with massive portion sizes and an unfathomable amount of food waste.
The CDC estimated (2018-2019) Japan to have ~20k annual cases of anisakiasis, and prior to 2010 it had >90% of reported incidents, with noted scarcity of data. Per-meal they may have very high...
The CDC estimated (2018-2019) Japan to have ~20k annual cases of anisakiasis, and prior to 2010 it had >90% of reported incidents, with noted scarcity of data. Per-meal they may have very high standards, but you're always going to be safer cooking fish.
I linked two studies. The first study was estimated annual cases: Accounting for that difference may be the mentioned constant increase in prevalence or limitations of Japan's reporting of...
20,000 cases PRIOR to 2010
I linked two studies. The first study was estimated annual cases:
Using data from 2018–2019 health insurance claims, we estimated the average annual incidence of anisakiasis in Japan to be 19,737 cases.
Accounting for that difference may be the mentioned constant increase in prevalence or limitations of Japan's reporting of anisakiasis / food poisoning. Or maybe just a bad estimate. A review suggests a global increase is due to increased consumption of raw fish and awareness. Asian countries with raw food in their diet may be from a lack of data, or consumption at the start of a meal / with alcohol may be why Japan has more cases.
Look, it's not zero, but I bet that it's probably no worse than the risk of e coli from a salad.
Life should be enjoyed and everyone is free to decide what risks they're comfortable with, not trying to criticize anyone I'm calling you out Japan. I'll eat cookie dough occasionally or sushi socially and I've made it through life without any noteworthy case of food poisoning. Just saying uncooked foods tend to introduce risks that don't exist in cooked ones, even in countries with high standards.
Using the above estimate gives a 19,737 / 125MM ~= 1/6369 chance of a random Japanese person getting that parasite per year, ~1/229k per meal (using 3/month), or~1/200 of at least one incident over 32 years. Not necessarily from sushi, but strictly something that wouldn't come from properly cooked fish.
Given that some of the population wouldn't be at risk due to their diet, P(worms | raw fish fan) would be higher. Comparisons with E. coli would also factor in meal frequency, which I'd like to say would lean towards salads being more common... but maybe not in my current state.
Not bad. That's ~3/100,000. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3622169/ Rate in the US is ~1/20,000 after washing. No idea if Japanese eggs are sanitized....
The prevalence of S. Enteritidis in commercial eggs in Japan is estimated at ∼0.003% which was a tenfold decrease in prevalence compared to similar surveillance in the mid 1990s.
Yeah I'm sure that temperature is 100% safe if you're starting with a really sketchy piece of meat sourced from somewhere that considers "food safety" as another four-letter word. But I have a far...
Yeah I'm sure that temperature is 100% safe if you're starting with a really sketchy piece of meat sourced from somewhere that considers "food safety" as another four-letter word. But I have a far higher level of trust in the people and places preparing my food to keep my food delicious and 99.9% safe to eat.
Okay, I have been doing all of the worst things this article mentions my entire life, I've never contracted food poisoning from any of it. (I had food poisoning once, but I was not the cook that...
Okay, I have been doing all of the worst things this article mentions my entire life, I've never contracted food poisoning from any of it. (I had food poisoning once, but I was not the cook that time.)
Maybe people just need to build up a higher tolerance for bacteria?
That’s the problem with personal experiences, we can’t extrapolate them to the whole population. Public health is all about odds. There are people whole smoke everyday and don’t get lung cancer...
That’s the problem with personal experiences, we can’t extrapolate them to the whole population. Public health is all about odds. There are people whole smoke everyday and don’t get lung cancer after 40 years… does that mean they smoking doesn’t cause lung cancer? Maybe you’ve been lucky with your eating habits, but others won’t have the same experience.
True but my guess would be the majority of people don’t eat after the principles in this article, and apparently the entire population doesn’t get food poisoning every week. So even from a broad...
True but my guess would be the majority of people don’t eat after the principles in this article, and apparently the entire population doesn’t get food poisoning every week. So even from a broad perspective, the odds already seem somewhat low.
This is what I think, also. Some of the best food I’ve eaten was from the shadiest street carts in south east Asia. I enjoy picnics, BBQs, hell, just about everything mentioned in this article and...
This is what I think, also. Some of the best food I’ve eaten was from the shadiest street carts in south east Asia. I enjoy picnics, BBQs, hell, just about everything mentioned in this article and I’m rarely washing my hands before dinner. I believe living the way promoted in this article makes you so much more susceptible to food poisoning. I’ll just keep on enjoying life the way I do.
I'm reminded of a post I saw on the fitness subreddit years ago, basically asking if they're able to drink with friends on the weekends and still be healthy and have a high quality of life. The...
I'm reminded of a post I saw on the fitness subreddit years ago, basically asking if they're able to drink with friends on the weekends and still be healthy and have a high quality of life. The answer he received amounted to, "What do you consider to be a high quality of life? Yeah if you don't drink at all you'll obviously be healthier physically, but there's more to life than just being in peak physical condition." I thought that was interesting, especially coming from a fitness forum. They weren't encouraging this person to go out and drink every night or get wasted on the weekends, but that there was a definite balance to be found (though of course that balance is different for everyone).
Life is short. I think key here is moderating things, even the concept of moderation itself. Shake hands, eat at a buffet if they have an "A" in the window, say hello to strangers! But don't be a dummy, ya know?
It's funny, really. I don't drink alcohol and never have - but I don't judge someone else for it either. We all have our own set of 'sin enjoyments', but people do often feel attacked when I...
"What do you consider to be a high quality of life? Yeah if you don't drink at all you'll obviously be healthier physically, but there's more to life than just being in peak physical condition."
It's funny, really. I don't drink alcohol and never have - but I don't judge someone else for it either. We all have our own set of 'sin enjoyments', but people do often feel attacked when I mention it(although, as I've become an adult and so have my peers that has been happening less).
Self-improvement isn't about perfection, or being 'good enough'. It's about living in a way that for you, personally, improves your life. And this article, and many more, misses that imo. Eating more healthy isn't about being perfectly healthy, fitness isn't about being in perfect shape(whatever that is...?), career advancement isn't about finding that one job you'll be happy at(which is a very misguided way that's pretty common in western countries at least - happiness isn't something you attain).
Life is short. I think key here is moderating things, even the concept of moderation itself. Shake hands, eat at a buffet if they have an "A" in the window, say hello to strangers! But don't be a dummy, ya know?
Agreed. If you spend all your time trying to get the life you feel like you should have you will never enjoy the life you could be experiencing.
I'm sure the writer will probably never contract a foodborne illness but I feel they've gone overboard by turning their food into shoe leather in the name of safety. Actually, pasteurization is...
I'm sure the writer will probably never contract a foodborne illness but I feel they've gone overboard by turning their food into shoe leather in the name of safety. Actually, pasteurization is not just a function of temperature. Yes 165f kills everything instantly, but you can achieve the same result by holding food at a lower temperature for more time and have a much more palatable result.
Disappointed that I didn't see soft-service ice cream machines mentioned. Did you know that, to keep a soft-serve ice cream machine safe, it has to be disassembled and cleaned on a nightly basis,...
Disappointed that I didn't see soft-service ice cream machines mentioned.
Did you know that, to keep a soft-serve ice cream machine safe, it has to be disassembled and cleaned on a nightly basis, with unused product getting thrown away?
As you might expect, most places don't bother. The staff frequently aren't even trained on how to clean the machines, much less do it on a nightly basis like they're supposed to, and management is loathe to throw away product in such a low-margin business. As a result, the warm, dark, damp environment is perfect for growing mold and bacteria, and because of the boatload of calories contained within, also makes them one of the most common locations for cockroaches to inhabit in a restaurant.
Ice makers also tend to get nasty for the same reason, but at least you don't have to worry about the roaches snacking on the ice.
Back in college, whenever I'd be in the dining halls after 10 PM, I'd get to see the staff disassembling them and dumping the leftover product. Those are the only soft-serve machines I have ever felt safe using.
Adding to this, soda fountain machines you see in most places are likely filthy. I worked at a drug store, on our list of nightly duties was to disassemble the spouts of each drink and soak them...
Adding to this, soda fountain machines you see in most places are likely filthy. I worked at a drug store, on our list of nightly duties was to disassemble the spouts of each drink and soak them in warm soapy water, rinse, and reassemble. Only problem is that the majority of employees who worked in that department were high school students that couldn't be bothered, and management didn't know or care to check afterward.
Properly disassembling, cleaning, sanitizing, and reassembling a soft serve machine is no easy task either. The machines that I've worked with had a lot of small parts. Even with practice, doing...
Properly disassembling, cleaning, sanitizing, and reassembling a soft serve machine is no easy task either. The machines that I've worked with had a lot of small parts. Even with practice, doing the job properly can easily take 25 minutes. Like you say, in an industry where margins are so low, it's no surprise that most managers won't want to devote as much labour as they should to cleaning.
I think I’m in the minority but I liked the article, it would have been nice to get a little more explanation on some points (are lettuce hearts packaged in a bag safe? Or is it the already...
I think I’m in the minority but I liked the article, it would have been nice to get a little more explanation on some points (are lettuce hearts packaged in a bag safe? Or is it the already cut/prepared lettuce that’s a risk?) but I generally agree with the points mentioned. Most of it makes sense and I subscribe to “if in doubt, throw it out”.
This is a pretty awful list. This is appealing to peoples' anxieties and isn't really any better than some media scare crap. The author is definitely one of those high-anxiety types. Just that...
This is a pretty awful list. This is appealing to peoples' anxieties and isn't really any better than some media scare crap. The author is definitely one of those high-anxiety types. Just that alone rules out so much food that tastes amazing despite not being the most perfectly safe food to eat.
She has a bias being a microbiologist. It's a shame because I've seen this article linked in a few other places. I can easily see this negatively affecting restaurants, all because of some overly anxious microbiologist's crappy opinion article.
Personally I eat whatever I want and never had issues. I don't want to live my life being afraid of food. I only pay extra attention when I travel to foreign countries which have reputation of...
Personally I eat whatever I want and never had issues. I don't want to live my life being afraid of food. I only pay extra attention when I travel to foreign countries which have reputation of being less hygienic.
I'm sorry but this kind of reads like 'an agoraphobic's list of places they'll never go'. I've worked in the food industry for a long time as well as have my food-safe certification - not to mention have no outstanding cases of causing food poisoning.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't trust my 'I haven't made anyone sick' as a source to listen to (that could just be luck or a bias) but will instead talk about my experiences getting food poisoning.
I've done most of this writer's 'no-list' without error but I've also been cautious. Never accept food that has the 'moisture + protein' combo if it's been at room temperature for 1 hr or more. Never accept somethint where people who make it don't believe in sanitation or hand washing.
But so long as you're cautious and understand where /how your food is being made, it can be OK. Just never eat sushi from cheap places by the beach unless you know how they care for their fish. I couldn't help it - a sunset, Asahi, and sushi...
Just remember - unless it's REALLY bad, you can't taste food poisoning.
Yeah, I was interested but "never eat outside" and "never eat buffets" were enough to make me stop reading but such amazing information as "Use different cutting boards to avoid cross contamination." Well fuck me, no need to renew my SafeServe certs, I'll just direct the health department to this article!
But, c'mon, never reheat rice? So, never eat fried rice? Never eat out, at all? Just stay home and burn all your food and you'll never have to deal with any risk at all.
https://www.bhg.com/recipes/how-to/food-storage-safety/leftover-rice-food-poisoning/
The issue with reheated rice is more about storage; if you pop it in the fridge right away you can reheat and eat; if it’s been sitting on the counter for several hours then toss it.
Right, that's correct. The author of the article wrote "never" not "with safe storage, you minimize risk." That's why I'm saying it's nonsense. Using their background as a microbiologist to claim you should never, under any circumstances, reheat rice or you'll be vomiting and shitting everywhere is at best silly and at worst clinically paranoid.
Hence disregarding the author's statement.
Another personal anecdote, but I leave rice out often to cool to room temp before I put it in the fridge. Few hours if I remember, sometimes out longer if I forget. Never had any obvious food poisoning issues, but probably should start diving them into smaller containers to cool faster though. But FYI never put hot foods in the fridge, that makes it easy for food already in the fridge to spoil faster.
Do you have scientific evidence to back up your claim?
No offense, but that sounds like something that while it might make sense in your head, doesn't actually matter in reality. Either that, or maybe it only applied to older, less efficient refrigerators. Maybe if you still have a fridge that struggles to cool, OR if you just really over pack your fridge like a tetris game, then you still may run into issues, but refrigerators cool very quickly (when running properly) so they realistically should not struggle to remove the excess heat your hot item is putting out into the cooled air compartment before it actually impacts your other chilled items
Plus, putting a hot item in the fridge will actually help cool it down faster, which may actually make an argument as to why you should put your hot food directly into the fridge
After typing this comment, I was still curious so I searched for more information online and I found a registered dietician from Mass General and also this guy that goes into more depth as to why it's best to put hot foods directly in the fridge. There are also countless other posts from sources like AARP saying to put hot food directly in the fridge and then other random sites I've never visited before that still back up the claims made by more credible scientific sources
When you allow foods to cool on the counter, they're in the danger zone for bacteria growth much longer than when they are quickly chilled in a refrigerator
Usually I wouldn't reply to older threads, but I felt like it was important to discuss this, because leaving foods out to cool before refrigeration can actually cause much more harm than good
Thank you!!
Back in college when I survived out of a mini fridge, my thought behind this was definitely appropriate. Many sad instances of discovering spoiled foods, so I tried to mitigate by minimizing hot foods in there. I was also taught this growing up (with a very old fridge).
Well I'm out of college now, and have a more modern refrigerator now, so I guess TIL that rm temp cooling isn't a necessary step for me and my fridge. Appreciate the effort to explain this!!
My pleasure :)
If you're concerned about raising the temp of the fridge, put your rice in a plastic container and leave it in an ice bath for a bit (big mixing bowl with ice water). Don't do this with glass containers, it's not worth the risk of shattering with thermal shock.
You can get the temp down more quickly and get it into the fridge faster.
Another way is to cool things on a sheet pan or a wide, shallow container. Although it isn't as fast as an ice bath, the more surface area of the product you expose to room temperature, the faster things will cool.
Ive eaten 1-4 day old "counter rice" for literally my whole life and never had any issues. Much of the time without reheating. Just my two cents :)
I spent some time in a village in the hills in the Dominican Republic sleeping on the floor of the schoolhouse, we had no fridge and kept food out for a day or two without refrigeration. Didn’t get sick.
The one time I did get sick was when I had a vegan burger with mayo at a friend’s house.
Went to Mexico several times, ate all the street food, drank all the agua fresca too, and the only time I got sick was from a fancy vegan place. The only reason why I went there in the first place was because we were celebrating someone's birthday 🥲
was it normal mayo or vegan mayo?
I think some kind of vegan mayo but I don’t remember after all these years.
I’ve always humorously viewed it as building my immune system and gut strength. I had an ex that would throw things away that fell on the floor/were left out/expired before I saw them so I wouldn’t eat them lol
I grew up being fed that kind of stuff (sometimes you gotta eat what you have or you don’t eat) so it never really bothered me.
Only got food sickness once, visiting said ex’s family in Mexico. Was super careful then too, but new environments can be brutal without being accustomed to it
We also do this regularly too. I think more sensitive groups may affected by it, though.
So storing rice in the cooker for up to 2 days at a time isn't recommended? I guess I can start putting it in the fridge. :/
The more I learn about food poisoning the more I wonder how I've never poisoned myself.
Some rice cookers keep the rice hot enough to prevent bacterial growth, check the manual for yours.
it's also about how you cook it. pressure cooker will knock out B.cereus spores, but a rice cooker/stove-top won't.
I’ve asked a few microbiologists about how knowledge of their field shaped their lives. They generally fell into two camps; the hypochondriacs like the author of the posted article, and the complete opposite behavior. For the latter, they’re not out there licking doorknobs, but they also would happily eat at a buffet or picnick.
Dr. Rebecca Lancefield's Eggnog recipe is one of those interesting tales of how a Microbiologist used her knowledge to perfect her recipe, while also keeping it safe! By spiking the eggnog, it allowed it to sit and "mellow" thus adding a more complex flavor profile while preventing salmonella. NPR had a segment featuring a Microbiologist from her alma mater, Rockefeller University, test a batch to back the idea with evidence. Her work and recipe creation has made me curious about other Microbiologist who've used their knowledge to do the same.
I've been wanting to attempt the recipe after seeing Adam Ragusea's video on it. It requires a little bit of advanced planning, but it might be something I attempt this holiday season.
I'll add, don't trust meal boxes. Getting a few people to wash their hands is one thing, getting 100 people to do that is expensive.
I had to look like a jerk because the in law family I was staying with actively left food out all day. Meat, eggs, salad, you name it. My partner got very serious for poisoning, but at least he wasn't rude. Definitely stand up for yourself and say no thank you. It was in the middle of nowhere, so it's not like I could leave, either. Such a nightmare.
I'll admit I don't really know what you're talking about.
I was confused too for a moment, for some reason I didn't connect the term "meal box." I kept thinking of styrofoam containers and being confused.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal_kit
With that context it all makes a bit more sense
Yeah, I had both of those thoughts, but meal box just sounds like one meal per box, so I'm not sure. I figured I'd just let them know exactly what they meant rather than guessing.
It's logistically challenging to bring a team of 100 people up to any standard, let alone personal hygiene that affects people you'll never meet.
Its one thing to have someone stand at the door as everyone comes in for their shift, but, if everyone takes the full amount of time washing their hands, which next to no one does even after food safe handling, the line up at the limited hand wash stations bottlenecks. Many people also rush and skip this step, to put on gloves, if no one is there to watch them.
A basic understanding of gloves and food safety is not covered in food safety courses well enough to create a full understanding or care of gloves. Many people see them as a catch all, easy trade off of convenience for cleanliness. 99.9999% of people do not wash their hands every time they change their gloves. While working at near-refrigerator temperatures, most people who want to keep their fingers from going numb wear personal, cloth gloves on top of their gloves and under gloves again, which is cross contamination. In terms of a basic understanding of cross contamination, many people touch many other things, including boxes; their body; hard surfaces; and come back from the washroom, touching door knobs and whatever else, without concern. People regularly touch their phones on the work floor, which are typically used in very personal situations. Explaining and/or enforcing this nebulous idea is very difficult.
Maintaining a standing for washing fruits and vegetables is very difficult. When there are two people on the same page, they can teach eachbother. When there are 100 people being literally timed and chastised, threatened with warnings and firing as one new manager's managers manager decided, an open workplace of teamwork and knowledge sharing get more and more difficult. It was already difficult to be team wash-the-vegetables please. The skins of fruits and vegetables have things like salmonella in it, and, as these lots of food kept out of refrigerator temperatures (for hours as someone works on 100's of portions by hand) the food is often mishandled. Food hits the ground but will never touch the sink. Washing something like kale properly meant submerging your hands into ice cold water for 20 minutes at a time, if you insisted your group do it. For the individual, there is also a social cost to following food safety procedure or even common sense, because your co-workers will resent you for it. Many will refuse to wash the kale or insist on one rinse, which is just the leaves swimming in dirt. Kale was the only vegetable that was ever washed. A planned process and individual worker advocacy does nothing when the work is unpleasant and no one wants to do it.
In terms of food storage, the kits were given a multi-day shelf life, but many of the components were madeamy days before being sent out. This means, food that hasn't been washed, that's been improperly stored and mishandled, is considered good to eat many days past when it should be, and that's not communicated to the customer. They are told it's freshly prepared. For many weels, old food (such as precut butternut squash) would be kept for another weeks recipes. This is fine in my personal household at times, but I would never sell food to anyone and mislead them about how long it's been sitting around for.
We had many, many complaints of bugs on our greens. When a piece of metal was recieved by a customer, we were simply told not to let that happen again, go go team. I think that some people did care, and if you ever have a problem with your meal kit, please let the office know; however, given my experience with business model of the meal kit service as it grew in size, I do not believe it's rational to expect cleanliness from these start ups.
So, yeah. I could go on into specifics, but I think these examples stand for themselves. The food is still, fine, I ate it as part of my compensation, but I don't have immunocompromised children or adults in my household. It's about whether you want to. I recommend washing all greens, whether they're from a kit or whether they've been triple washed, if any of that bothers you. A lot of food is still good, but, as a chef I worked under said, people are paying for this food. It should be better.
I don't know about expensive but more chances that an employee who just doesn't care about hand washing handles your food maybe?
But this is what all food and beverage processing facilities do. Are you saying any food processing company with 100+ operators isn't to be trusted?
Based on my personal life experience and efforts, absolutely. If you don't believe me, that's your own world view.
Edit: not to be snarky, sorry. I did reply in length to someone else that responded.
I worked for 5 years in the ministry of health, department of food and feed, in Italy
We have one if the most strict regulations in terms of food safety. I've seen the number of alerts that come through (most from Chinese imports, sorry to confirm the stereotype) but that never made me as fearful as the person writing that article, on the contrary, it made me confident that it would be very hard for something bad to end up in my fridge.
Your mileage may vary in other countries so, the best thing you can do is do your research on how your country is determining what's safe and what's not.
That article feel like the personal vent of a germophobe, sorry
The statement "Do not eat meat if its internal temperature is less than 70℃ (158ºF)." already lost me... Sure, if your primary goal in life is to avoid food poisoning, that might be justifiable. But otherwise, people do tend to eat for pleasure, and cooking meat to that temperature ruins most meats.
So the question is, am I to interpret this as an insightful look into a germaphobes head, or as advice? Because if it's the latter, the authors priorities seem far out from what I'd consider normal, and it overshadows all other advice for me for the remainder of the text - how serious should I take their other advice if this simple tidbit is already so far from what I'd consider reasonable? I guess it ultimately depends on where in the safety vs pleasure scale one falls, and the beginning already signals to me that the author is very far away from me.
As an aside, the authors position also also just seems wasteful to me - advocating to never take home leftovers might be safer, but it's also a very unsustainable position in a country with massive portion sizes and an unfathomable amount of food waste.
The CDC estimated (2018-2019) Japan to have ~20k annual cases of anisakiasis, and prior to 2010 it had >90% of reported incidents, with noted scarcity of data. Per-meal they may have very high standards, but you're always going to be safer cooking fish.
I linked two studies. The first study was estimated annual cases:
Accounting for that difference may be the mentioned constant increase in prevalence or limitations of Japan's reporting of anisakiasis / food poisoning. Or maybe just a bad estimate. A review suggests a global increase is due to increased consumption of raw fish and awareness. Asian countries with raw food in their diet may be from a lack of data, or consumption at the start of a meal / with alcohol may be why Japan has more cases.
Life should be enjoyed and everyone is free to decide what risks they're comfortable with, not trying to criticize anyone I'm calling you out Japan. I'll eat cookie dough occasionally or sushi socially and I've made it through life without any noteworthy case of food poisoning. Just saying uncooked foods tend to introduce risks that don't exist in cooked ones, even in countries with high standards.
Using the above estimate gives a 19,737 / 125MM ~= 1/6369 chance of a random Japanese person getting that parasite per year, ~1/229k per meal (using 3/month), or~1/200 of at least one incident over 32 years. Not necessarily from sushi, but strictly something that wouldn't come from properly cooked fish.
Given that some of the population wouldn't be at risk due to their diet, P(worms | raw fish fan) would be higher. Comparisons with E. coli would also factor in meal frequency, which I'd like to say would lean towards salads being more common... but maybe not in my current state.
Not bad. That's ~3/100,000.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3622169/
Rate in the US is ~1/20,000 after washing. No idea if Japanese eggs are sanitized.
https://extension.umn.edu/preserving-and-preparing/handling-eggs-prevent-salmonella#:~:text=Eggs%20are%20washed%20and%20sanitized,eggs%20are%20contaminated%20with%20Salmonella.
Japanese eggs are indeed washed like the ones in the US are (though idk the specifics of the process in each country).
Yeah I'm sure that temperature is 100% safe if you're starting with a really sketchy piece of meat sourced from somewhere that considers "food safety" as another four-letter word. But I have a far higher level of trust in the people and places preparing my food to keep my food delicious and 99.9% safe to eat.
Okay, I have been doing all of the worst things this article mentions my entire life, I've never contracted food poisoning from any of it. (I had food poisoning once, but I was not the cook that time.)
Maybe people just need to build up a higher tolerance for bacteria?
That’s the problem with personal experiences, we can’t extrapolate them to the whole population. Public health is all about odds. There are people whole smoke everyday and don’t get lung cancer after 40 years… does that mean they smoking doesn’t cause lung cancer? Maybe you’ve been lucky with your eating habits, but others won’t have the same experience.
True but my guess would be the majority of people don’t eat after the principles in this article, and apparently the entire population doesn’t get food poisoning every week. So even from a broad perspective, the odds already seem somewhat low.
Or continue supporting enforcing food safety regulations. :-)
This is what I think, also. Some of the best food I’ve eaten was from the shadiest street carts in south east Asia. I enjoy picnics, BBQs, hell, just about everything mentioned in this article and I’m rarely washing my hands before dinner. I believe living the way promoted in this article makes you so much more susceptible to food poisoning. I’ll just keep on enjoying life the way I do.
I'm reminded of a post I saw on the fitness subreddit years ago, basically asking if they're able to drink with friends on the weekends and still be healthy and have a high quality of life. The answer he received amounted to, "What do you consider to be a high quality of life? Yeah if you don't drink at all you'll obviously be healthier physically, but there's more to life than just being in peak physical condition." I thought that was interesting, especially coming from a fitness forum. They weren't encouraging this person to go out and drink every night or get wasted on the weekends, but that there was a definite balance to be found (though of course that balance is different for everyone).
Life is short. I think key here is moderating things, even the concept of moderation itself. Shake hands, eat at a buffet if they have an "A" in the window, say hello to strangers! But don't be a dummy, ya know?
It's funny, really. I don't drink alcohol and never have - but I don't judge someone else for it either. We all have our own set of 'sin enjoyments', but people do often feel attacked when I mention it(although, as I've become an adult and so have my peers that has been happening less).
Self-improvement isn't about perfection, or being 'good enough'. It's about living in a way that for you, personally, improves your life. And this article, and many more, misses that imo. Eating more healthy isn't about being perfectly healthy, fitness isn't about being in perfect shape(whatever that is...?), career advancement isn't about finding that one job you'll be happy at(which is a very misguided way that's pretty common in western countries at least - happiness isn't something you attain).
Agreed. If you spend all your time trying to get the life you feel like you should have you will never enjoy the life you could be experiencing.
I'm sure the writer will probably never contract a foodborne illness but I feel they've gone overboard by turning their food into shoe leather in the name of safety. Actually, pasteurization is not just a function of temperature. Yes 165f kills everything instantly, but you can achieve the same result by holding food at a lower temperature for more time and have a much more palatable result.
Disappointed that I didn't see soft-service ice cream machines mentioned.
Did you know that, to keep a soft-serve ice cream machine safe, it has to be disassembled and cleaned on a nightly basis, with unused product getting thrown away?
As you might expect, most places don't bother. The staff frequently aren't even trained on how to clean the machines, much less do it on a nightly basis like they're supposed to, and management is loathe to throw away product in such a low-margin business. As a result, the warm, dark, damp environment is perfect for growing mold and bacteria, and because of the boatload of calories contained within, also makes them one of the most common locations for cockroaches to inhabit in a restaurant.
Ice makers also tend to get nasty for the same reason, but at least you don't have to worry about the roaches snacking on the ice.
Back in college, whenever I'd be in the dining halls after 10 PM, I'd get to see the staff disassembling them and dumping the leftover product. Those are the only soft-serve machines I have ever felt safe using.
Adding to this, soda fountain machines you see in most places are likely filthy. I worked at a drug store, on our list of nightly duties was to disassemble the spouts of each drink and soak them in warm soapy water, rinse, and reassemble. Only problem is that the majority of employees who worked in that department were high school students that couldn't be bothered, and management didn't know or care to check afterward.
Properly disassembling, cleaning, sanitizing, and reassembling a soft serve machine is no easy task either. The machines that I've worked with had a lot of small parts. Even with practice, doing the job properly can easily take 25 minutes. Like you say, in an industry where margins are so low, it's no surprise that most managers won't want to devote as much labour as they should to cleaning.
I think I’m in the minority but I liked the article, it would have been nice to get a little more explanation on some points (are lettuce hearts packaged in a bag safe? Or is it the already cut/prepared lettuce that’s a risk?) but I generally agree with the points mentioned. Most of it makes sense and I subscribe to “if in doubt, throw it out”.
Yeah I'm not going to stop eating oysters they rule.
It sounds like this author hasn't discovered the immune system.
This is a pretty awful list. This is appealing to peoples' anxieties and isn't really any better than some media scare crap. The author is definitely one of those high-anxiety types. Just that alone rules out so much food that tastes amazing despite not being the most perfectly safe food to eat.
She has a bias being a microbiologist. It's a shame because I've seen this article linked in a few other places. I can easily see this negatively affecting restaurants, all because of some overly anxious microbiologist's crappy opinion article.
Personally I eat whatever I want and never had issues. I don't want to live my life being afraid of food. I only pay extra attention when I travel to foreign countries which have reputation of being less hygienic.
this article is more common sense than anything. i did not learn any new information from reading it.