Advice for dealing with racist/pro-Donald Trump family?
*TRIGGER WARNING: Racist and Anti-LGBTQ topics contained below with hurtful language *
Hello all,
TL;DR: I am wondering if there's any generally recommended resources, books, or general advice (peer-reviewed research would be ideal) on dealing with racist, close-minded family after you have made the transition to more progressive worldviews? I don't really like my family these days because of their Trump support as well as their generally close-minded, reality-denying views. It's weighing on me, because I miss having some sort of good connection with them like I used to. Their health is starting to decline, but I've gotten to the point that I don't really like them that much, and I haven't been going to see them. These two parts of me are kind of at odds with each other, and I'm struggling to find a balance.
Background & Context: I (33M) and I grew up in a rather conservative family (2 older brothers), to the point that a "light" level of racism was generally accepted and talked about in the family, and as an example, jokes using the N-word with the hard R were told by my dad and grandparents semi-regularly. I say "light" racism because we don't have a family history of racial violence or owning slaves (we're descendants of 1900's European immigrants, mostly.) I also think my family generally supported the Civil Rights Act back in the day. As a result, I grew up finding racist and gay jokes funny and frequently repeated them, and generally had a close-minded approach to the world before I went to college - but I never truly wished anyone any ill will. I got along well with my family, and while we were never super close, I at least talked to my family about stuff but we never really shared emotions or talked about depression with each other. None of us ever really learned how to deal with their emotions and talk about them. My family never traveled, either, so I never got out of my home state till I was in high school, and it was of my own volition. My parents are also conservative Christians, so they have generally anti-LGBTQ views. My mom calls LGBTQ people "abominations" per the bible, for example. It's disgusting.
Once I got out into the real world working with people of other cultures and befriending them, my worldviews began to change. Especially once I went to college and started working in scientific research, wherein your critical thinking and objectivity are especially stressed, I started to pivot more and more to progressive views. Beyond that, the more I saw that data generally supported progressive views and policies, I started to disagree harder and harder with my parents on political topics. Additionally, I slowly lost my faith, and started to become more and more annoyed by my mother citing the bible as a reference for topics such as LGBTQ marriage rights. I now commonly refer to myself a recovering Catholic.
And then Trump happened. Honestly, in his first run, I could understand why people voted for Trump. They were tired of traditional politics and feeling like it wasn't working for them, especially in midwest and blue collar areas, so they figured "fuck it, throw some chaos into the system." But after COVID and January 6th? I just can't fathom still having a SHRED of support for that disgusting shell of a man. And yet my parents do. My mom watches Newsmax, thinks COVID vaccines are deadly, and thinks the 2020 election was stolen. She thinks Biden was kidnapped and was being impersonated by the Deep State. I can't. I just can't with her. It's all she wants to talk about, and my dad won't say anything to her about how fucking crazy the shit she spouts is.
I was also close to one of my brothers for many years, as we went to concerts and played games together mostly. We just "click" when it comes to gaming together, and it feels seamless and fun to play with him in a way that it doesn't with anyone else I've ever played with. But then, politics comes up. My brother would probably be aptly described as an incel, in that he reads 4chan still, and also has some batshit crazy views. One, for example, is that he doesn't think the races should mix, because something along the lines of black and white genes don't work as well together. He has straight up said that to me, and I regularly wonder if I should cut off contact with him for that alone. He often blames women in sexual assault cases or characterizes them as gold diggers. A part of me wonders if I am doing a disservice to the aforementioned groups by even still associating with him after saying things like that. If I am also doing a disservice to myself by even sometimes associating with someone who has such an awful worldview?
And herein lies my dilemma: I haven't gone to see my family in over 6 months, now (I live <30 mins away). My parents' health is declining - it is likely that one of them is going to die in the next 5-10 years, and yet I don't even want to go be around them, especially my mom. I still game online with my brother, but this dilemma is slowly eating away at me.
But also? I feel a deep empathy and sorrow for them, to the point that I'm choked up as I'm writing this post because they are lonely people who, in my opinion, have been grossly manipulated and mislead throughout their lives. I wouldn't want someone to give up on me, as I feel I am doing to them by avoiding them. I also used to be deeply entrenched in close-mindedness, and I wouldn't be where I'm at without people who kept trying to convince me of a better path. But the other part of me thinks: Is there a line somewhere? At some point, do you become too deeply entrenched that I can't convince you out of it? What do I do at that point? How do I even define that point?
Are there any resources or books on this topic? Are there any objective things I can do to try and improve this situation and feel better about it? I have spoken with a therapist about this in the past, but I wouldn't describe the feedback I got as very helpful. I would like to go see a therapist again, partially about this, but it's so damn expensive thanks to the American healthcare system. Any input anyone has is appreciated, even if it's anecdotal. This post is also partially just cathartic to write out as it is also to ask for feedback. Thank you.
I don't have any evidence based practices to suggest, but I wanted to voice some empathy to your situation. I grew up in a mostly similar situation and underwent mostly similar changes as a young adult transitioning to the real world and my first real career. Especially during COVID I had many painful conversations with family who largely didn't give a shit and still don't. But if I can offer a beacon of hope, things did eventually get better, and they can for you too. I think the blueprint of my situation is too fundamentally different from yours to offer any profoundly helpful advice. But, for what it's worth, I feel for you.
Thank you. It helps a bit to know others have found a way in similar situations. If I may ask, did you ever "give up" during your situation? Like not going to see your family for extended periods of time even though you easily could have?
There is saying going around social media about dealing with magas. Roughly paraphrasing:
The best solution I have seen is to let such people know that you don't want to talk about politics.
Of course, they might not cooperate.
I have a life long friend and mentor who Ive known since I was 15ish and their health is declining but I just cant bring myself to maintain a friendship with them.
The most menacing part about Trumpim is how many topics of conversation are off limits now. I cant talk about the weather, traffic, my friends wedding (gay), my friends two year old (two moms), anyone who’s recently been sick because we’re all mad about the healthcare system but can’t agree on who to blame (but its probably not the fault of the immigrants….)
So…. We just stopped talking.
They were over at my house the other day and ended up ranting about how those damn liberal railroad construction workers (???) are “dumb as hell”. I don’t even know how that topic came up.
Sorry to hear that.
Years ago I found my best friend from childhood. He had become a bat-shit libertarian, Rand/Ron Paul style. Like your situation, every topic of conversation was a landmine. I've had good work relationships with republicans, because we both knew how to talk about other things and how not to politicize everything.
Have you ever met someone who was a former conservative? Former evangelical? Do you really think reason wasn't the means by which they deconstructed their old world view?
Only after their emotional attachments to those views were broken by some sort of shock or other non-reasoned revelation.
The exception to this is if they're quite young and being exposed to reason in this way for the first time.
Part of my job is sales, and so sometimes I will get a customer in the store wearing a hat or article of clothing that advertises trump. You can't ask them to cover it up or take off the hat (even though it's usually people old enough to be brought up to know it's rude to wear hats indoors), because it's super easy to make them feel unwelcome because of their political views.
The thing I do is simply ignore the words on their clothing. I don't talk about politics. And I'm good enough that I can get a pretty good rapport with them, with plenty of jokes going around between us.
But the thing is that if I'm ignoring something they feel strongly enough to plaster over their bodies, it's impossible to have a real relationship with them. As much as I'm ignoring them, I know deep down I feel disgusted with them because they are making the world a worse place to live in. They are people who not only endorse an autocrat, but have invested money in their campaign. I might be able to keep up a business relationship, but I sure as hell wouldn't be able to turn it into a personal relationship, even though they are perfectly nice people otherwise.
Here are the questions you have to consider for yourself:
If your answers to those last two questions end up being "no", then don't pursue the relationship.
One thing you might have bearing on your mind is filial duty. And I completely understand that, having had those same thoughts when my parents were dying, but I think it's a result of bad framing. It's true that your parents gave you a lot and it was a big sacrifice for them, but rather than it being something you owe them back for, it was simply what they owed you for bringing you into the world.
The way you talk about your parents, I think they may have not actually changed. The way they expressed themselves changed to fit the times, but the fundamental person behind them hasn't. But you have. You grew up and realized that the things they believed in and did were wrong. There was no time when you lost the parents you grew up; it was the time when you lost your innocence and naivete. But even if they had changed, would it make a difference? They became who they are by their own choice, and nothing you do will ever make them change their minds.
I realize that this might come across as me implying that you should cut them out of your life. I'm not. I don't know you or your parents, but even if I did, the only one who can make that call is you. I just hope that these frames help you see the situation a little clearer. I had a pretty similar thing happen to me to much more disasterous effect with my father when I was still a kid, so I have had a lot of time to think about it.
I can relate a lot to what you're going through. I come from a somewhat similar background (though more extreme) and went through similar growth that you describe. I didn't want to be a violent, racist, sexist, hateful neo-nazi. I was desperate to not become my father. So, after some growth I confronted my father about his extremist views. I knew when I did that at the time that I would never be able to have a peaceful conversation with him again. I had to do it though. I wanted to give him that chance to change. I didn't want to give up on him. He responded poorly - as expected - and I didn't talk to him again for the next 15 years. He died alone a couple years ago. Cutting off contact with my father was one the most painful things I've ever done - even though he was a terrible person. I'm glad I tried to give him that chance to change, but I can't say that you should do what I did. What was right for me may not be right for you.
I think it's great that you have empathy for your family - it speaks to your growth as a person. I would definitely advise talking to a therapist. That was a big part of how I was able to even have the courage to confront my father.
I also recommend asking yourself a few things. Do you feel like your family is a net positive in your life? Does your family respect your wants, needs, and desires? I would think about things like that before making a decision. The family we're born with isn't always the family we end up with. A lot of people build or find their own family.
I spent so much of Trump's first (and hopefully only) term trying to have civil discourse with the MAGA supporters in my circles. This included my Mother in Law, several coworkers I previously respected, and my own parents to a degree. I'm now exhausted. There is a point at which the other person needs to meet you in the middle, and you can't be held responsible for their unwillingness to help themselves.
My advice would be to set boundaries, and pay close attention to those that respect the boundaries. In cases where the line gets crossed repeatedly, it's sometimes best to just pull away from that relationship. In my own life, my parents have been pretty respectful of my boundaries, so we have settled into an agreement. We do sometimes dip into politics, but it is always civil, and I feel as though they are at least somewhat open to listen to differing points of view. My MIL however has not been so respectful, and as a result we don't talk much despite the fact that she's geographically our closest extended family.
In my experience, the most important thing you can do is to call people out on their behavior when they say something racist, homophobic, or otherwise inappropriate. Don’t let them just say something offensive and act like they didn’t just say something wrong. If someone lives in a MAGA bubble, they don’t often hear someone say that what they are saying isn’t right.
But you also have to watch out for yourself and your own well being.
I don't have any specific resources or research to recommend, but my wife is in a similar (though I think less extreme) situation with some members of her family. For example she and her sister have always been close, but her sister's political views have shifted pretty far right over time, and it caused a pretty big rift between them that reached a boiling point the first time Trump ran for president. Eventually they came to an agreement that the only way their relationship can continue on good terms is if they simply avoid talking to each other about politics and culture war topics entirely. It's worked out very well--they still talk all the time and go on trips together and enjoy each others company and conversation despite conflicting worldviews. Their mom has a similar agreement with my wife's sister that is working out well too.
I guess the catch there is that they both like each other and wanted the relationship to continue and are willing and able to avoid talking about the things that trigger each other. It almost certainly wouldn't work if they weren't both on board. I'm not sure how likely something like that would be to work between you and your family members, but maybe you could think about broaching the idea of something like that with them. If the answer is no, then there just may not be a way for you to maintain a healthy relationship with them (but at least you tried).
People who have been conned are often extremely resistant to learning that what they believe is not true. It is very painful to admit that you were wrong.
If you have patience, you might be able to ask questions and listen to their thoughts in a way that leads them to recognize contradictions in their ideas but they have to come to their own realizations. You can't teach them.
The unpersuadables Adventures with the enemies of science by will storr is a good book.
So is being wrong Adventures on the Margin of error. You might also read Wendell Berry's memoir about growing up in a racist family of former slave owners called the hidden wound.
I dealt with mine by simply never speaking to them again, unfortunately that doesn't work for everyone but it sure was effective.
Sorry you're having to deal with that as well - I think there are a lot of us in the same boat. I was raised by a very conservative, very "Christian" family. To their dismay, I took the teachings of Jesus that they had been forcing down my throat since birth seriously - that is, to love people, treat them equally, etc. Unfortunately, it turns out they definitely don't believe any of that, and would rather choose Trump over first born oldest child. It had been building up for a while, but I could no longer bear to be in contact with people who don't believe in basic human rights, who believe the military should be sent in to kill peaceful protesters (even though they knew this included their own son), who believe it's ok to sexually assault women, who believe it's ok to to be bigot (also towards their own son, considering I'm technically disabled).
It was a hard choice, and I wish things never turned out like this. The last straw, however, was when I realized I would absolutely not feel safe with them even physically holding any future children I may have, let alone look after them or care for them in case anything happened. My long term partner is of Mexican ancestry with darker skin, and any children we might have would likely be on the darker side. It's a sad day when you truly comprehend just how much of a danger your parents may be to your child.
They likely won't take it well if you do cut them off completely, but from my experience, no matter how matter-of-factly you lay it out, they will refuse to comprehend it. You can send them a 10+ page document with multiple sources, including Trump's own words, and they likely won't even admit that they support that (if they're still putting up a pretense of decency). I don't think people in general are unable to change, but too many are completely unwilling to, so I would prepare for that.
I wish I had any actual advice to give. I wish things were different and there weren't so many of us going through this. In the end, whatever you decide, just know that it's them pushing you away by voluntarily giving up their humanity and decency. If you're like me, you'll likely feel guilty over this decision, and ruminate over it quite a bit - but would you blame someone for cutting contact with their Nazi supporting parents in the 1930s, especially if they or a loved one was a target of Nazis? I hate to be too hyperbolic in general, but I really don't think it's hyperbole in this case, and I think anyone who's seriously studied the rise of the Nazis can see the blatant parallels and borrowed tactics. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and keep yourself and your loved ones safe above all else. Hopefully this election is the beginning of a peaceful end to all of this. Either way, we probably all will need some serious therapy.