Does anyone else have posting anxiety?
To preface, I have accounts on multiple link aggregators, three microblogging platforms, and I have my own (transiently online) blog. I'm a member of more niche Discord servers than I can count, and I'm in a few other nooks where people generally seem to gather and talk. Despite all that, I find that it's incredibly rare that I ever actually participate in any of the discussions that I see taking place, and that's something that I think I'd like to change.
I think part of the problem is that I grew up in the formative years of the "modern" net, and was always taught that you should be careful about what you say online (and, implicitly, that saying nothing is probably even better), lest an axe murderer track you down and explodify your tibia while you sleep.
So, does anyone else, or have stories about, posting anxiety? Anyone gotten over it? Am I just crazy?
writes out long response
deletes response
All the time. Usually it's because I realize I've just spent 15 minutes writing multiple paragraphs that are tangentially related to one sentence the person I'm talking to said, so after reading the entire comment again I realize it doesn't really fit in context
I just pushed past three separate instances of having the urge to not leave this reply
I went the other end - I write a drawn out response to a very minor point someone made, realize I wrote 5 paragraphs that have no order or sense to them, and then just say fuck it and post it.
Nobody seems to be bothered by it, probably because nobody bothers to read all that spaghetti :)
Or else getting to the point where you think a TL;DR is now necessary, write it... and then realise that actually covers your point well enough so you delete everything else.
Kill your darlings :)
Edit, I first heard about this phrase from Stephen King's 'on writing' which is a great read if you want to know more about him or his writing process.
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/10569
That's... Actually a very interesting process. Thank you for sharing.
My wife does this. She does it with messages, emails, Reddit posts, etc.
My favorite is when she rewords a sentence 11 times because she stresses about how each individual syllable might strike the reader or how she's surely just one word away from destroying the meaning of her message.
Meanwhile, I type as fast as I talk, which is already fast.
Go look at my comment history and see how I edit every single comment after the fact because my dumb ass forgets words and only proof reads effectively after I have posted.
My wife has posting anxiety. I have the opposite, whatever that is.
I'm curious if this is related to how we process thoughts and whether it relates to how we use internal monologue. My internal monologue moves quick and is verbalized in my head as complete sentences.
What is your guys' relationship between your internal monologue and your writing?
A lot of the rewriting comes, for me, from being perceived in a particular way as a woman (albeit a non-binary one in my case). I type very quickly, and I have the ADHD parentheticals and commas (and dashes), and the stupid mobile autocorrect typos. But I still reword things a bunch if I'm making any sort of a point or in a long conversation or writing a work email.
It's odd in places like Tildes and reddit because the lack of emoji use (and lack of widespread tone tags which I'm less familiar with) eliminates my "don't sound like a bitch" counterbalance. I don't internal monologue but I do script and rescript my responses for that reason.
Alternative script
I see you mentioned your wife rewrites a lot and I just wanted to share that I do that too! 😅 In my experience it mostly comes from past experiences with other people misreading negative tone into emails of women (and probably any minoritized gender!) There can absolutely be other anxiety going on too of course but that's just a pattern I see.
I type fast! And I end up using a lot of little sub clauses for all my ADHD thoughts 😅 and I make far too many typos 😞 that I blame on my fast typing and Google's latest updates. But I definitely edit and re-edit myself for a work email, especially if it's for a group!
Not having emojis really makes it harder to indicate tone 😬 (although at least I don't have to balance that with not having too many emojis in a work email, right?) It makes it hard not to be read by others as being a jerk even when I don't mean to! So instead I use a lot of exclamation points! ❗And then I use a lot of couching my language like I did here, which I hope is ok and didn't bother anyone 💜
My original post was more honest, I still feel the need to explain my thoughts but it's an ADHD thing. The spoilered one is an exaggeration but not at the same time. Fewer emojis, the same number of "!" which is just digital "up-talk" and lots of the couched language. I hate it.
Oh, the "write like Spock" problem, I know it well. One of the joys of being a female-appearing person in tech is that you do have to phrase everything as factually and neutrally as possible to avoid any suggestion that you're emotional, yet soften the language enough to prevent the appearance of bitchiness or aggression. Hence, three-sentence e-mails that took an hour to craft in some circumstances. The reward for all that effort was that when Silicon Valley was popular, I got compared, to my face, to Laurie Bream.
Now, I use minimal emojis in work e-mail, all over the place in Slack, and even, rarely, here.
It's interesting because being in a "softer" field, being too factual is definitely being too curt, but then someone else will read being softer as being passive aggressive. Like no, please just handle students with mental health by our documented procedures THANK YOU.
So yeah I relate.
I once got feedback during a training that I was too blunt and then the very next day, a guest speaker told us we need to stop pussyfooting and just say what we mean--and he got a standing ovation for it. Like specifically for that sentence.
Allow me to use the proper emoticon for this
(╯ರ ~ ರ)╯︵ ┻━┻
Also "pussyfooting" in that context after all that....
Double table flip.
┻┻︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵┻┻
I grew up during the age of IRC, when people used a lot of kaomoji and little pre-graphics memes like this
┬─┬ ノ( ‘ u ‘ノ)
To me, a space where people chat kindly to one another, and feel relax enough to use kaomoji will always feel cozy and like old times.
I do try to be mindful and try to rein in my language on Tildes. "That's just who I am" is not an excuse for generating a one-woman-band amount of noise.
(☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞
You're good as far as I'm concerned.
(◠‿・)—☆
Never heard the term kaomoji though I learned a thing.
(~*´∀`)~ thank you
(ʘᴗʘ✿)
Although there are obviously issues affecting women in particular that I can't possibly grasp, I struggle with that as a man as well. Specially coming from a culture that is exceedingly extroverted and histrionic to the point of insanity. Sometimes I just have to make peace with the fact that people will think I'm a cold hearted asshole. There's nothing I can do about it.
For what's worth, I like Laurie Bream. She's a no-nonsense badass in a sea of absurdity.
Ah yes, the thought upon a thought upon a thought parentheticals that plague my posts too (because there's always something else still relevant).
Yeah and sometimes it's a side thought or a slight explanation but it's just very classically ND and I just own it now.
Em dashes are also great fun, and I love to see them in the wild. I think if they were easier to type, more people would experiment with them.
(At one point I had the alt-code memorized for Windows.)
I have no idea the etiquette for an em dash vs en dash. And I'm not gonna retain it if I learn.
I prefer em dashes and I know how to trigger Word to autocorrect to one so that works for me. But mobile leaves me with -
I bet you will! Em dashes are used to make little side comments—instead of using commas, parentheses, or ellipsis...es?—and en dashes are used for ranges (0–10).
Okay, even I might forget en dash vs hyphen—but em dashes are just a way to make your text clear and avoid overuse of other punctuation that might make your text muddled (,, ..., ()) or potentially pretentious (;).
I will immediately forget which is which. And in mobile I use whatever is "under" the H.
That's a hyphen! I just use two of them for the em dash--it's how you type it in MS Office and it approximates it pretty well.
I hate the aesthetic of two! I doubt anyone will ever be like gasp a hyphen/en dash (which seems to be the same with spaces), how gauche.
That's not the point. The en dash is wider than a hyphen so it is used to separate items in a range, whereas the hyphen is used to combine things. Then the em dash is widest because it's used to separate parts of a sentence. It's just about maintaining clarity.
So, the internet is who told me the difference between a hyphen and en dash was the spacing around it, leading to the meaning difference.
But regardless, I'd like to point out that I said upfront I wouldn't retain this, and I'm not actually trying to. I appreciate the attempt and all, but frankly, I'll keep using space hyphen space (which will autocorrect to an em dash in word). I like the aesthetic of a longer dash.
And grammar is really just aesthetics as determined by someone else.
That autocorrects to an en dash. If you want the longest dash, the only thing that autocorrects to the em dash is hyphen hyphen. If you put a space on either side of the double hyphen, it will still convert to an en dash. Space hyphen space looks to be about one pixel wider than hyphen hyphen, but requires an extra key press, so you even get to choose what you prefer there, of course.
Theoretically, an en dash is the width of N, an em dash is the width of M, and a hyphen is a third of the width of an em dash, but typefaces do not follow this strictly.
Eh it's long enough. My bad!
My insisting that I won't retain this is 100% based on past experience. I'll get this wrong in the future. I also truly am fine being "wrong" with it.
I know you are! But every time I mention what an em dash is for—setting apart sections of text—I make it less likely that you'll forget and more likely that you'll remember this annoying conversation 😜
You underestimate my ADHD. I am still missing about $3k worth of keys. So ....I will almost certainly forget this too. Willl accept remembering this if I find my keys though
Don't worry--maybe you'll remember, and maybe you won't--either way, at least it's not as expensive as keys and locks!
eM dash for Musings
eN dash for Numbers
In case that helps anyone remember the difference better
This post is made without punctuation so as to avoid any appearance of bias
This just gave me an interesting thought… are spaces and line breaks punctuation..?
Huh, I hadn't considered them that before, but I don't see what else they could qualify as.
It's actually easier to type an em dash on mobile than with a keyboard—it's almost always a long-press option on the hyphen key.
"-" is a long press on my h key, not requiring me to swap out of my keyboard
In Microsoft products (which I have to use for work so they're the most relevant to me) typing " - " and typing anything after it converts it to an em dash. Meaning it's easier than on mobile for me (and again, the - works fine for most uses even if not technically correct. I am no longer in grad school and no one is grading me)
ETA: guess the dash is the wrong length? Eh I don't mind being wrong
If you're on the Mac,
I used to know a really easy way to type them on Linux, but that likely depends on your WM.
This is why proper support for nested hoofnotes in discussion board software is vital.
Hahahaha, the ADHD parentheticals, commas, and dashes. That's me! Diagnosed ADHD and my comment history is absolutely littered with these. I didn't know that was a thing.
As for tone, I think the best defense against this is being a little less certain and a bit more deferential. Granted, I'm a man.
But yeah, I use phrases like, "I would guess x" or "do you think y?"
I find that people usually come off as rude or irritating when they are over-confident or too blunt/concise. Most of us hate when people are pushy but we also hate when they say, "okay" and leave it at that.
You actually just uncovered a bias I think I might have. If a woman uses those "tonal" emojis, it rarely bothers me. But when a man uses them too much, I tend to think of him as being kind of dramatic. I guess I have this innate (and incorrect) feeling that men "should" only use emojis for comedic effect. I need to be aware of that now because that's not a good bias to have.
I👀👈 am a 🕴️man 👨 who 💯🥇fully lives 💪 🆙 to the 💿 stereotype 🪩 using 🧰 either 0️⃣ emojis 🤣 or by ⌨️spamming 🍅 more ‼️ of them than an 🏩💌 adulterous 🏩 housewife❕
(Actually, such emoji spam is more about channeling an inner boomer than digital drag)
I hate these. Rather, I hate that my first thought on how to open this paragraph was, "Honestly, I hate these…" While they are useful to diffuse an argument, the mental habit of structuring sentences to allow their easy inclusion bleeds into my fiction writing, spamming it with wordy cruft. There are ways to be concise without being a dick about it; it just requires more editing than is justifiable for most online discussions.
Trust me I know how to modify my writing tone - It just depends on the context whether I do or not.
I am glad this was an reflection/educational moment for you though genuinely
I had never heard of this being an ADHD “thing” - but does help to explain why I too do this. To me it “kind of” feels like the style in which I actually talk to people - with pauses (and further explanations as a side bar). I notice it a lot and try to curb it during the 100s of rewrites of emails and such…but now I’m just free-flowing and not changing anything (much). 😬😂
I also have the use emojis a lot to indicate tone to not “come off as a bitch”. Work emails and internal IM are rife with them - sometimes I just need to make my tone known FOR SURE. So many happy face emojis. Work emails are the worst though when it comes to writing/re-writing. Train of thought draft 1 - cut/paste/reword/hit the thesaurus/think about the way words sound together/edit/re-edit/notice all the words I left out/etc. Not a brag but it took me an hour yesterday to enter three sentences into a meeting invitation. 😂
For “!” I think of comedian Gregg Proops and how he would harp on this when he was reading his email. It’s like you’re “shouting at people” - HAVE A NICE DAY!! - so I just hear his voice lamenting this and (try) not to do it. BUT I SOMETIMES CANNOT HELP MYSELF! ☺️
There is a reason House of Leaves is my favorite novel. It's one of the few books structured like my natural thought habits instead of being a mere linear stream of text.
Coincidentally, I have had this in my to-read pile for other reasons for over year :D but this is good to know - I may have to start reading it sooner!
Yep it's very much like the way I talk. I edit it out for work but not for the internet .... Ok maybe I edit it a bit online to avoid six sub parentheticals.
I've mostly found my work voice but I go back and yank about half my ! Or 😀 after the fact. I also will fall into repeating the same euphemisms over and over in the same email and have to re-edit those out now too
Oh…you had me have to think about my euphemisms - I wasn’t even thinking of those till now 😂
I spent several minutes just now typing (and retyping…and retyping) more but just deleted it and gave up because I couldn’t figure out a way to express my point - and if I even actually had one to begin with 🤪
"Hey folks! So I've noticed several times that in recent reports that we're repeating the same turns of phrase. Nothing wrong with a good euphemism, but I just wanted to give you a few tips! "
"Just wanted" or using "just" to soften the words in general is one of mine. Turn of phrase maybe a better ... Turn of phrase. But I absolutely just can't think of more euphemistic things I say now either.
One of my favorites, going back to my school days, has always been to not imply that someone did something wrong but rather construct my complaint as though it just happens. That way it sounds less like an accusation:
Ah yes the passive "it happened" rather than the "you did" a classic
Yes, so much "this happened". At work, mistakes are usually called out like this:
Data for [instrument - field] appears to read [value], when the expected results according to the calculation formula is [correct value]. Could this be reviewed at your earliest convenience？
Or even just request for review plus screen shot of something wrong circled.
It’s difficult to come up with stuff like euphemisms on the spot (goes and looks it up to make super triple sure I know what a “euphemism” is and spends minutes reading the Wikipedia entry…) uh…I had a point but I lost it. Maybe, like, you or course know what a euphemism is and if you thought about it you could probably throw a few out…but on the spot it’s (for me) like my mind goes blank, usually. Or the wrong thing comes out.
I have maybe an opposite problem with using “just/wanted”. I’ll put it down and it looks weird - feels weird. Especially so if it is the first word in a sentence. Like does “just” sound aggressive? Do I sound like I’m nagging? Am I implying people aren’t paying attention? Does it sound sarcastic?
It is something I’ll put down often in a first draft and when proofreading come across it and want to rephrase it or make it just (HA!) without the “just”. “I want”. Which does “sound” a bit aggressive (?) but I feel takes some ownership of the thing(?)
Like, of course this wouldn’t be at work (I hope) but these two phrases feel very different in meaning to me:
“I just wanted to tell you I love you”
“I wanted to tell you I love you”
And this is why it takes me forever to type stuff because of this sort of analysis.. 😂 It has felt pretty nice to be more free form here and not editing as much as I normally do…still a ton but less so. 😊
Those two phrases are different! Some people will read "just" as passive aggressive, some will read it as softer. Some will see it as sarcastic. Yeah. It's complicated. With work stuff I do a pass and edit out some of my couching and exclamation points and such.
Chronic "too much information" sharer, and chronic comment editor because you hit post before you proofread or even fully finished writing out all your thoughts? Because that's definitely me. :/
I'm also on that list. I don't have anything else to add, and normally I wouldn't comment on tildes unless I had something to add, but for this thread it feels sort of ironic not to say anything.
Yup. Finish it in post.
Likewise... I genuinely have to hit "post" because if I linger too long over every imperfection or inarticulacy, I'll cancel altogether. Perfectionism is the death of voice.
The opposite to posting anxiety? I like posting equanimity...
Some people have posting anxiety and others have posting Xanax.
I tend to switch between the sort of stream of consciousness writing style like I'm doing right now, using speech to text to transcribe a sentence as I'm saying it, and a more methodical, nitpicky sort of style. I think it generally depends on the kind of the comment that I'm making. I'll go back and change a word here or there when I'm typing like this, but when I'm trying to convey a lot of specific meaning in as few words as possible, I treat my comment like a darn Rubik's cube.
Now I wonder if you can tell what comments I make like this, and what comments I spend more time on based on the similes that I use, because that slower, more methodical writing style is absolutely nothing like solving a Rubik's cube
ETA: I also think it depends on the platform. My comments are a lot more off the cuff on a more casual platform like Lemmy or Reddit, and I too have to go and edit almost every single one immediately after posting on those platforms because I realize a word sounds wrong. But then, if I'm in an argument, I keep my statements as concise and precise and exact as possible, and I treat it like nobody has ever read the Wikipedia article on the Principle of Charity
Yes
I end up posting a lot, despite my (initial) best effort to ....not. To have few words unless they're as succinct as they are insightful. In my case, my fondness for this community and admiration for its members' opinions spur a curiosity that very often get the better of me. I'm painfully aware of the quote, "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."
My internal monologue only exists as I speak/type, I'm afraid.
The up side, I've been told by friends who've known me for decades, is that I am nearly always free from torturous thinking in circles, I cheer up readily after expressing myself, and I forgive and then forget much easier than most.
It's hard to keep grudges and stay mad/sad when the ledger book keeps getting misplaced. There's nothing much up there so there's less to rattle around.
Please post! Frankly, I stay away from ~tech discussions for the most part because I'm soaking in them IRL, feel like I'd rather hear fresher opinions from others, and life is much bigger than STEM alone.
And as for freakouts from others' responses, I hear you. I walked away from Tildes for a while during the worst of the COVID pandemic because many people everywhere were leaning hard into being afraid of reality, however civilly. Online argument isn't always the best method of persuasion, and self-protection can be an appropriate response.
However, avoiding conflict altogether may also be something that's detrimental throughout your life. It can be helpful (both to yourself and others) to recognize when it's productive to confront others' transgression of your boundaries, call out offensive or intemperate reactions, and own your opinions and experiences wholeheartedly.
I'm the opposite. My perspective is likely unnecessary. I share it anyway.
I found that more true on Reddit—too many people looking to be pedants or pick fights over "phrasing was sus" over there.
If you get the terror, ignore your own post after making it. Can't argue with posts you don't see!
Up until just this moment, that was my strategy!
I like to think by writing something out I at least taught myself something.
It's not just you, I'm also a chronic lurker. Just writing this comment was a struggle. I'm interested to hear if anyone has advice about overcoming posting anxiety because I would love to be more active here and on other forums.
Just as an anecdote about chronic lurking and struggling with posting:
There was a person on /r/castles who started posting beautiful pictures of castles, one per day, and did this for several months. Their titles were almost always on point, named the country/province the castle was located, and there was rarely a typo or anything. Just one photo of a castle and that was it. They rarely if ever posted a comment or participated in discussion.
People started to notice the quality and regularity that they were bringing to the community. There was a lot of real positivity around this person's posts. Eventually someone asked why the OP didn't participate and they explained, in about two sentences, that it was an extreme struggle for them to make posts and it often took them about 45 minutes to get a picture and type out the title for it. I don't recall, but they might've had some health problems as well.
I hadn't thought about how much more difficult it is for some people to make these simple posts than it is for others. It seemed that a lot of other people hadn't, either. People were really struck by this and many people started to take an extra moment of their day to drop a comment saying thanks. OP became like a mascot and their castle pics cheered us up in a new way. It was a simple thing, but these posts and these positive interactions really helped to stimulate the community at a time when niche subreddits weren't that easy to find.
That person stopped posting suddenly and I don't know what happened to them. The community got concerned and it didn't feel the same anymore. I hope that they're well and are just taking a break. They deserve it for all that they did for the community.
I hope people that haven't posted much give it a try, because otherwise we won't know what we're missing. :)
That's lovely, thank you for the anecdote. I hope the rogue castle poster is alright ;-;
Over time I got past my posting anxiety by internalizing a few things:
-Everyone who responds usually means well. People who want to start fights or reply in bad faith make their intentions known pretty quickly. Everyone else responding means I've made some sort of connection and that feels good.
-generally, nobody will remember your post tomorrow, including you, so speak your mind without worrying about your "community reputation". Obviously try not to be a jerk or offensive, but if you say a joke that doesn't land, you aren't going to be forever remembered as "the user who posted that joke that didn't land that one time". It's sort of like hanging out in a friend's living room and chatting about what's on TV. Passing friendly interaction that might be extra nice or meaningful to the right person.
-have no expectation, don't post expecting resounding support and a parade, and don't post expecting a hate brigade. Most likely it'll just be ignored, that's just how Internet engagement works. I expect nothing from the comments I post and get to be pleasantly surprised if people respond.
After a while it feels less like putting myself out there and taking a chance (what chance? There are zero stakes), and more like water cooler small talk.
On some sites, especially HN, I've found this to be less and less true as time goes on. A lot of the cause of rewriting/deleting drafts is the burden of making pedant proof posts on sites like that.
The other part is when topics approach on the political and then you get people from either extreme trying to have a go at you because you're seen as both too much in favour of a point and insufficiently in favour of a point at the same time.
My "favourite" example of this was discussing IMAP. I remember thinking while writing a post, that I can't just say email providers should support IMAP because IMAP in the spec doesn't support TLS and I knew in context I'd get yelled at for that. So I put IMAPS in my post, but as predicted, someone yelled at me there because there's no spec for IMAP over TLS officially so officially IMAPS isn't a thing despite approximately every email provider supporting it. I suppose they wanted me to include that whole aside in my post about data portability as much as explaining all that would derail from the point I was trying to make.
I remember this clearly because it was a point where I realised just how unpleasant the site culture had become even outside the politics-adjacent topics. But Reddit and twitter had gone through similar transformations. I think it's a point scoring mentality egged on by things like the upvote or retweet counts.
$💯% for sure. The orange website has a terrible long-winded userbase. If there's a specific origin for me being flippantly aggressive with my opinion that some kids didn't spend enough time shoved in lockers, it's Hacker News culture.
Reddit used to be mildly friendlier: if someone wrote an entire essay that wasn't pasta, it was almost certainly a legitimate disagreement, not pedantic obstructionism. However, Reddit's userbase these days seems too stupid to understand what they're fighting over/for. Pepole will come out swinging over the words in a post rather than the meaning of the sentences. Perhaps that's a sign of troll armies and government influence campaigns at work.
The number of times I've had to write "no, you did not read what I wrote" on reddit is astronomical. I think I've done it once on Tildes. And then I get people piling on to explain why I'm wrong, none of whom have actually read what I wrote. And these are on the very few subreddits I still subscribe to because they have high quality discussions.
All those tone indicators (obligatory /r/FuckTheS shoutout) the mass-market segment of Reddit loves to use would become unnecessary if they bothered to use capitalization, punctuation, and write out full words instead of using lowercase acronyms for stock sentence stems.
It feels bad when someone comes to my defense, etc., but they use the-s-which-must-not-be-named and I'm forced to downvote them.
I've written in complete sentences since the dawn of texting and I still find a lot of use in tone tags, emojis, etc.
Makes me happy there aren't downvotes here.
/gen (yes, actually, and I know it's ironic given the context but here we are. )
I actually had to look up what /gen means. It's mainly /s that I--and many other people--have a problem with because it's like explaining a joke. I don't have as much of a problem with jk or lol or 😂 when texting/messaging because those are meant to be quick messages, whereas online comments are meant to be things that are at least worth saying, not just conversation for conversation's sake.
Fwiw I use something like /s because if the person doesn't take it as a joke I get called a bitch/asshole.
I don't use tone tags a ton but sometimes it conveys the "I'm not being sarcastic" that's also needed to avoid the above accusation, or indicate a "half joking" moment. It saves a whole extra sentence or two that would be far more "explaining a joke". Ymmv of course but the person you replied to considered all tone tags as unneeded if people just wrote "correctly" and your follow up really made me glad we don't downvote here.
I don't care if some idiot redditor can't understand a huge exaggeration--that I even decided to exaggerate further to make sure it's obvious I'm being sarcastic. As for the downvotes that one of us will receive--I know that's basically just luck of the draw.
Edit: forgot to say that--depending on how you view it--(un)fortunately, this site usually leads to discussions and inferences that don't require tone indicators of any kind and I could probably count on one hand the number of times I have seen them.
I've felt the need to clarify tone - verbally more often than with other indicators - on this website. I think the lack of feeling the need is more about the individual, not whether the need exists.
Sarcasm can be subtle. Combined with too many dense people who don't even get heavy sarcasm is the reason I'm quite happy with /s.
yes, big time. Not so much because I'm worried about the aforementioned axe murdering tibia-exploder though. I grew up in the era of "lie about everything personal online" so I tend to not mention biographical information or anything that might be used as a security question online (although, that kind of depends on the community, too. if it's wide open to the whole internet, I'm gonna talk less in general, but if it's more private, I'll post pretty much anything).
But in general, yes, and in part for the same reason I dont talk IRL - i feel like other people will say anything I could say, but better, so my input isn't wanted or needed. I'm actively debating posting this, because I feel like someone else will come along and say all of this but more coherently, or more humorously, (humerus-ly.....) or whatever.
It's hard to turn thoughts into words, and most of the time it doesn't feel worth it, especially because the internet is forever, and I'm dumb. Say something stupid in meatspace, give it a week and everyone will forget. Say something stupid online and it could be reposted all over social media and get YouTube videos made about it and end up on some gossip site somewhere, y'know?
Idk. Obviously, if you're reading this, I do manage to post sometimes, but it does feel kind of like the internet is now less of a town square to chat in and more of a microscope slide I've been shoved onto, and that kind of makes me less inclined to engage in a lot of spaces. The places I do tend to post in are either completely anonymous and hopefully not scraping much (if any) of my data, or they're niche forums where there's a bar for entry beyond just "press the sign up button", so that's about the only panacea I've found for it.
I hope you find something that works for you, and helps you engage more when you want to!
I squared that circle by becoming a chronic liar. I launder interesting stories of others into my personal lived experience while turning my personal life into a diverse array of eccentric family and friends.
Thank you for sharing. It's nice to hear that I'm not alone in my feelings, and you've certainly struck on a few sentiments that I feel but didn't really articulate.
This is my prime reason.
I will also type out some long comment, read it a few times and delete it, because I think it offers nothing new to the topic.
Aside from that I don’t post anything new since I equally assume no one will really care about the post and add yet more content that someone will just scroll by.
Here's an opposing perspective: my anxiety around posting or comments tends to not be about fear, but whether or not I'm going to get "validated". My brain is wired to massively reward me for online validation and interaction.
I largely keep silent and lurk because I don't want to chase that high like an addict. I'd rather only post when I have something constructive, thought-provoking, kind, or funny to say. But whenever I post anything (including this comment) I get a rush. Votes and comments give me a massive rush, particularly when they're critical. If nobody votes or replies to me, I'll feel disheartened and a transient loss of self-worth—and no amount of mindfulness will prevent those feelings from arising.
It's disconcerting how much power it has over my mental state, so I pick and choose when and where I engage much more carefully nowadays. I've even retrained myself that it's okay to let somebody else have the last word.
My experience around validation must be similar to many others, because why else are so many addicted to social media?
I hadn't considered that angle -- that's really interesting. I certainly felt something akin to that when I woke up and remembered that I'd posted this. Granted, it was diluted by a hefty dose of what I'm calling "ohgodohfuckohshitohfuck," but still. Thank you for sharing!
Maybe we can start by identifying some common reasons for the anxiety. Then we can think of how to work past those.
A few reasons I can think of: Fear of getting corrected and looking stupid. Fear of being ignored. Not wanting to repeat a conversation that's already happened. Not wanting to be pulled into a back-and-forth, because writing the first comment was already so much effort.
We could dive into each of those in depth. But my general advice would be: just do it! It's the same with real life social anxiety. It takes some failures, and it can be the worst feeling when you have a self-inflicted bad interaction and it ruins your day. With the right attitude of wanting to improve, and pushing forward through the failures, we can learn from each one and gradually improve. In that sense, the faster you post, the faster you will improve, and the good interactions hopefully wash away the bad ones.
I do. You've touched on one of the things that bothers me the most which is that I've learned from a very young age of both me and the internet that what you put online stays online and you should think twice about any personal information you put out there.
Another reason is, it takes time and effort to engage with someone, especially if that person is a stranger who do not have any idea about your intentions. If you talk about a sensitive subject, you have to give a long preface of your priors and even then they can just misinterpret your intentions. You can of course do a bad job relaying them too, but the end the result is the same. It takes time and effort to communicate and you get very little, if any, reward at the end.
The last reason is the feeling that whatever I have to say is not going to be worthwhile most of the time. I'm firmly of the opinion that just because I'm part of a platform to have my say, doesn't mean I have to use it. There are hundreds of millions of people that do just that on any given social media platform every day. It doesn't lead to anything good. I may come from a background that differ from most on Tildes but that doesn't make me nor my thoughts or ideas any special. I'm not saying this from a place of woe-is-me, but it's just an objective truth.
That being said, I do wish Tildes had an anonymous mode, at least for ~talk. There have been some threads I'd have liked to have contributed, more recently the weird religious beliefs thread, but opted not to given my sensitivity to privacy, whether it's justified or not.
I kinda like the idea of an anonymous ~talk thread. In the meantime you could always make additional accounts.
I've struggled with some level of posting anxiety, cycles of nihilism, and some shyness when doing public speaking. But if you look at my account, I post a fair amount here and I still have the most posts on certain niche gaming subreddits, even in ones I haven't posted to in over five years.
One thing that helped the posting anxiety was participating on Reddit, and similar places where I can interact and I don't have to experience "live" responses, like one does with Discord. I think it's this "fire and forget" vs "live chat" that really defines whether people are "forum" users or "chat" users. A lot of people exist in both spaces, but the different kinds of interaction mean there is a different comfort level with each one. I am more of a forum user.
So what I did on Reddit was primarily posted news I was interested in, which exists in a sort of neutral space where it's not my opinion and people aren't going to post angry comments towards me. But the topic interests me and I want to hear others' views. By posting, I can look forward to getting replies and reading responses without worrying about toxicity and other things. That helped ease me into responding those responses and generally getting a feel for how I want to participate and how I want to be seen participating.
Nihilism! What more is there to say? ;)
Posting on discord in a new community (or one you only ever lurked in) is kinda like public speaking. You say your piece in front of a lot of people. Maybe you wait for responses, maybe you don't. It's a different feel than chatting with your friends even in the same live chat space. Best thing I can suggest is find some specific people whose posts you enjoy reading, and respond exclusively to them, then broaden that to exclusively topics they bring up, and generally keep responses affirmative (positive or agreeing) or at least wholesome. Don't worry about being a social butterfly, most people on discord aren't and they have the same concerns you do. :D
I agree with pretty much all of this and it resonates with my own experiences.
Although I'd like to chime in and add my bit about the discords. I personally found discord very intimidating (especially in servers about stuff I actually cared about) because I didn't want to appear dumb or engage the wrong way.
I found it very useful to join totally random discords I really had no interest in, low population or high population it doesn't matter, and start talking in there. Maybe make a throw away account to get started. When I started making little comments and people actually enjoyed my e-company that really helped me get my post confidence up and made me feel a lot more happy about posted in the spaces I actually cared about.
I can definitely understand the points about neurodivergence and anxiety. In addition, being a woman - or being a member of a minority that can be detected through a username or posting history - has brought many of us uninvited stress when we post. Even thinking about posting this, I found myself going through my mental library of research and anecdotes (but especially data) to defend my position should some naysayer and/or troll reject my experience. It’s exhausting to think through all the points that could get picked apart, to prepare for more engagement than a simple comment. So I do the calculus of, “How important is this to me?” 99% of the time, it just isn’t worth it. But you can see this question fit the 1%!
Yes, I do.
I don't want to share too much about personal details, so most stuff from my private life is a no-go.
Secondly I think that most discussions on the internet just come to nothing. Social media isn't made for nuance and consideration. I mostly just see shouting matches, and I find it exhausting to enter those types of 'discussions'. (That's definitely different on Tildes though, but it's rare to find a place like this.)
Thirdly I'm also someone who typically writes a long post, edits it for two hours (especially in english as second language)... and then deletes it, because... who needs to hear this?
All that just makes it incredibly exhausting to even start to write a post, unless it's something where I have a bit of information that's trivial to share. A link to a resource, a recommendation of some kind, an answer to a tech question, that's fine.
Otherwise silence is golden, but that's ok. I've made my peace with it.
I agree with the state of social media being a factor. Large, unregulated communities seem to be full of negativity. Public IG reels and posts come to mind. Many users don't finish the 90 second video before complaining about it. I actually lurk in the comments for my daily dose of drama. 😂
When I used to be on reddit, I only subscribed to well-modded communities frequented by more positive and thoughtful users (as evidenced by comment/post activity sorted by hot and new). This worked out well for me regardless of subreddit size. I deleted my account, so I can't say if this holds true after the API fiasco.
On Tildes or my private FB groups, my posting anxiety comes from thinking about the person behind the screen. Like you, I spend a long time editing before posting, then editing some more (hours or days later, even) - or end up deleting the whole thing. Even though I basically wasted my own time, I'm still having fun doing it. So @Spade if you enjoy generating topics over participating in the comments, that's okay. You don't have to push yourself to not have fun, if you truly don't want to.
Thanks, I appreciate the reassurance! To be perfectly honest, I'd love to do both or either, it just seems that the impetus to actually get there needs to be so, so large -- and that is probably detrimental, because I feel that I often have valuable things to say that I end up not saying.
Someone else brought up the similarities between social media and public speaking. I do think that online activity taps into the same fear. We are sort of presenting to an unknown audience. We open ourselves up to their acceptance or judgement. Having a shitty interaction feels like getting heckled or booed off stage.
It helps that you're in niche Discord groups. Those are more likely to be tighter knit, full of passionate people. You also have more room to tell jokes, go off topic, and go back again to shared interests in quick succession. Most people build rapport by starting small, talking about the weather, food, music, shit posting, etc. so keep in mind that you don't always have to say something "valuable", at least in Discord. You got this!
I don’t have anxiety like it sounds like you and others with this problem have, so telling you to “not worry” probably won’t help much.
I definitely am wary of antagonizing people who seem unhinged in discord servers, but generally am not particularly secretive about my life. I try to limit details I give out to prevent people from knowing more than the city I live in, but other people are not as interested in you as you think. People are not taking notes about every piece of personal information you give out over a year in a discord server.
If I’m in an online space, I just talk about what interests me. It’s fun to find other people who want to talk about your niche interests as much as you do. It helps to know that people care about the topic, but they don’t really care about me personally.
I used to have really bad posting anxiety, I would always think "why would anyone care what I have to say?" Nowadays I'm much better about it, except on platforms like discord where I kinda always worry if I'm butting in on a group of friends as an outsider.
The biggest change in my anxiety was to just actually start posting things. As bad as reddit is now, there are still some communities I feel attached to so most of my commenting is done there. I limit my posting to topics I think I know about and have something insightful to add, but I feel much more confident in sharing my ideas on things. I try to keep emotions out of arguments as much as possible, since in my experience on the internet being emotional is the best way to have what you're saying be dismissed. I use alt accounts for posts that I feel are very negative since I find people on the internet are very quick to associate you with your worst moments.
I think part of my anxiety was just due to rejection sensitivity, like the idea people disagreeing with me made me terrified that I would develop a bad reputation among that community. The way I got over that was to just inevitably post bad or controversial takes and receive flack for them. Now when I receive a lot of negative feedback on something I'm confident I'm right in I just remind myself that the average person isn't very smart. It's very elitist and arrogant, but learning to value my opinion over others was a huge lesson I learned way too late in life.
Another factor my anxiety is just my spelling and grammar. I tend to repeat words, use a lot of filler, and spend a lot of time rephrasing things so I often end up accidentally posting something that's poorly worded. I usually read my post before and after posting them so I usually catch my mistakes, but I am embarrassed having to edit a post because of my poor writing. (Edit: the irony...)
I'm relatively careful not to doxx myself or link one screen name I own to another, and I make sure to scrub some accounts every now and then. Obviously this makes it harder to make friends in those communities so I try to use my best judgement when I feel like sharing personal information can deepen a connection. I grew up with a somewhat narcissistic parent, so I am very careful on what information I disclose, but I'm not actually super worried about posting something that someone will be offended enough to harass me for. I (hopefully) have things setup in a way where I can just nuke that account and move on with my life.
The first years I was on Reddit in 2004/2005 I was petrified to even comment. Given that English isn’t my first language and the “quality” of comments seemed out of my reach. This was before [video] and [pic] took over most of the content so everything was very text based. Now I have the same feeling here but I’m older and not so afraid anymore. Although I sometimes tend to comment more when I’m feeling a bit down and therefore the comments are not always thought through. I try to picture what responses I might get to counter this behaviour because if I imitatively get anxious about replies after posting then that’s probably a sign not to comment.
I read through some of the top-level comments and it was u/MechanicalMagpie's comment that I resonated with the most. I've struggled with posting anxiety and in general expressing myself for years (maybe decades?) And the main reason for me was the fear of being wrong or being pointed out that I'm wrong. If I talk about something, I expect myself to have enough knowledge about it to make well-formed arguments. If I don't make good arguments, that means I don't understand it well enough. In my mind I viewed that as equivalent to bullshitting. And I hated that.
As u/MechanicalMagpie wrote:
I always felt this way which made me stop myself from expressing. My first instinct would be to express my opinion, but then I'd supress it, thinking "why bother".
Recently, I had a perspective shift about this, and I had the following realizations:
I find #2 is what gives me the most value. I find growth in that. Just the act of sharing helps me think better because I know there will be the eyes of several strangers on that piece of content. I used to think I can just write my thoughts down and not really have to publish it, what difference does it make. That changed. For me, it's like running 10km on my own vs doing a 10K. The distance is the same, but the experience is different.
After all these realizations, I still rarely post anything. I only do when something resonates with me very deeply (like this post). But I'm not as hesitant or as anxious as I used to be.
Can people find things wrong with this particular post? Sure. Could someone write these same things a 100x better? Of course. But can they feel what I feel? No.
I also realized it's the fear that stops us from doing anything. I know I'm stating the obvious and 'posting anxiety' is literally in the title of this post. But catching ourselves the moment we hesitate and pushing ourselves a little bit will open us up to great results, if not great experiences.
I'm pretty sure this particular post and all the replies you received made you feel really good about posting it. You broke through your posting anxiety and posted about posting anxiety.
(So meta!)
I now approach posting and expressing with curiosity and am open to being corrected and learn from it. The more caught up I am about how I'm perceived, the more hesitant I get about expressing, and the less I grow. Not caring about any of that makes me feel free.
I really like how you framed this and #2 in particular resonated with me.
I think, for me, I don’t post much because of a couple components - probably some similar anxiety, partially paranoia about online being permanent and possible to connect to the ‘real me’, but I think mostly because I just don’t get much value out of it. It so often feels like pointlessly shouting into the void with no ‘reward’ in return, but it still takes time to do. So I usually have an impulse to respond but stop at ‘why spend my time on this?’
But I think what you said about the act of articulating it being valuable itself is spot on. Writing something down helps you organize your own thoughts on the matter, and thus can help you grow. I’ve started journaling lately for the same reason, and maybe posting more is another way I can exercise that process.
Thanks for helping me realize this.
For me, in places like Reddit (or Slashdot, yeah I'm old), it was the negativity of the responses that would make me feel like it wasn't worth the effort to compose a thoughtful reply just to get "slapped down" by a low effort / disingenuous / "um akshually" posts, like @macha was talking about. Once I posted a question looking for solutions to securing my laptop in a grad office environment, and the general tone ofnthe responses was that I am a terrible person for not trusting people. Obviously that didn't stick with me for all these years.
Tildes has been really refreshing because the focus on discussion and the generally positive tone of responses makes it feel worth the effort. Even if I do get a negative tone response, I fond that someone else in the community will often respond in my defense (or at least calling out the negativity), so I don't have to do all the emotional labor on my own. So I'd say try putting yourself out there here and see what happens.
Not only that, I feel like I am (hopefully) contributing to the positivity and discussion. It feels good to be "building" something.
Yep, that's me.
I generally get past it a bit once I can see a community is welcoming, responds in good faith, avoids heated arguments, and so on (hi Tildes!). In private communities where I know a lot of people I end up very chatty. I think for me it's very much overthinking how people might perceive my comments and the potential stress of dealing with negative responses.
Totally, and I'm going to push past my gut response of "lots of folks have already shared, it's too late for you" to add my two cents. I get much less anxiety when I decide to comment on here as opposed to other places, because the community practice of assuming good faith ensures that whatever responses I get will be much less taxing to address. That tells me a lot of where my particular anxiety comes from--it's not so much that I want to avoid rejection, though I still have a sensitivity for it, it's that the rejection I've experienced at other online communities is more often than not disproportionately hostile. Whether it be old forums, imageboards, or mainstream social media, the tenor of conversation ends up seeming adversarial by default, and that's just not fun to engage with at a certain point. All of that lead me to lurk by default, but I still do try to come out of my shell every so often, especially here.
As /u/krellor indicated, sometimes posting anxiety comes through lack of confidence in the strength of your own voice.
The causes expressed above include:
I'm sure that summary misses some nuance or other sources of anxiety, but I've experienced all of the above at one time or another.
As /u/protium said:
In trying to overcome those general posting anxiety issues, I overcompensated for a while. For various reasons, I wound up with well-honed argumentative writing skills via IRL experience. In the era of Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In, with a hefty dose of Pema Chodron's The Places that Scare You, it became a point of pride to throw aside all my fears, post abundantly, risk being wrong, and debate whenever duty called.
At the same time, I was very careful with anonymity, and completely understand the fear that online expression is eternal and the responses unforgiving. I had the experience of being stalked very early in Internet time. I risked serious consequences for any number of different kinds of disclosure (sexuality, mental health, politics, potential violations of business NDAs, national security laws, Sarbanes-Oxley, etc.). I'm grateful for everyone's courage, and hope that Tildes will remain a space where people can be comfortable revealing themselves.
These days, I'm much more in /u/krellor's camp:
I don't have to swing at every pitch anymore. Balancing the worth of the time available to me, and a greater desire to hear what others have to say before I claim the attention of an audience, have taken precedence. I'm not as cautious about anonymity as I used to be - my professional role has changed, I care less about my career and safety, and I'm spending more effort on raising hell IRL than online. With the diminution of overall social anxiety, it's become more fulfilling to interact with people directly.
I encourage all who've posted (or lurked) here to express yourselves whenever the whim takes you. It's rare that I've found anyone's input unworthy or negative. Even when that does occur, it's an opportunity for all of us to practice patience, forbearance, and better understanding. Language fumbles, punctuation errors, or imperfect expression are signs of striving for improvement - none of us is perfect, and forgiveness should be a norm. Listening to each other offers all of us opportunities to learn and grow - it expands our horizons, refines understanding of our positions, and encourages compassion for those whose experience differs from our own.
In my case it's not really anxiety, but simply not having anything profound, interesting, funny or otherwise meaningful to contribute. I don't want to litter the web with even more meaningless "this" or "exactly!" garbage comments or silly puns, so most of the time I just read without posting anything.
This, plus living in a timezone that is most active when a lot of anglophone countries are asleep means that most of my interactions are rather one-sided, but tbh I don't mind
Helps to find a niche, or to be on a large website where you're basically screaming into the void. If nobody sees the math that I did to prove that some obscure item in 5e D&D is technically feasible on reddit, then I'm unoffended. On Tildes, 90% of the comments I leave are in the weekly "what have you been watching" threads in the anime community. I see it as a chance to practice writing about things, since I'm so very bad at turning thoughts and feelings into words.
Re: group chats (like discord), for me it's less fear of revealing too much about myself, and more a fear of being out of place and in the way. I recently joined a discord server centered around an anime that I'm a massive fan of, because the forums move slow, and I want to see more fast paced discussion. But like, when do I reply? What do I say? What's the etiquette? Cognitively, I'm aware that the people in this discord server are very nice, and the few times I have said anything, I haven't gotten the digital equivalent of dirty looks or anything. But any time I comment, I feel like I'm drawing attention to myself, which I don't enjoy at all. Super doesn't help that I cannot get a read on the demographic, and I'd rather not be the 30-year-old guy talking to a bunch of teens on the internet.
Only here because I tend to like to sum things up as I value brevity while this place is almost the opposite. I think intelligent people can grasp a whole lot from very little if need be so I think a lot of long-form answers just tend to be redundant filler so when I have no filler to add for a simple post, I just don't post.
Hey look, it's me!
Historically, I've never been particularly good socially. Tone gets misinterpreted constantly, and more often than not people do assume bad faith in most of the online communities I've been a part of. I'm also very self-critical and internalize what others say about me a lot. I also am hyper-vigilant when it comes to other people's tone in talking with me, and try to read into it too much. Socializing in general is stressful to me unless I'm around people I consider safe.
I now realize that a lot of these problems stem from being an undiagnosed Autistic/ADHD person growing up. I would swing back and forth from desperately needing to socialize but making a fool of myself, and then when that happened I would hide away and vow to never socialize ever again. In the meantime criticism towards me was torrential. Many a memory where people (usually a parental figure) would very obviously consider me a lost cause, while I tried to scramble to figure out what I was doing wrong so I could fix it. It uh sucked.
Now I'm just in the process of untangling all this trauma that I wouldn't admit was trauma. I mean, people seem to enjoy my company? At any point in time I only have a couple friends, and a big reason is because of post anxiety. Writing a single text is hard for me because of how critical I am of even the way I write. I always end up assuming people will interpret anything I say in the least charitable way. The only way I can get myself to communicate regularly is by being forced into a live conversation, so I don't have time to overthink the things I say before I blurt it out. Again, around safe people, I feel okay. But I still get looks from people who think me weird (which I am) and I haven't worked through my own bullshit enough to be okay with someone not liking me.
The only way I can see me getting through it is a combination of self-acceptance and just posting more. Luckily discovering my autism/adhd has helped tremendously. I don't look at myself like a freak anymore, I'm just literally wired differently. Just the little effort I've put in to post places has helped the anxiety as well, and I haven't been met with meanness... yet. Fingers crossed it stays that way.
When I was younger I posted more often and had more stress about it. Part of that was simply a lack of discretion on my part, picking my battles. Not every "wrong" comment needs correcting or response, not every wise crack needs to be told, and not every opinion needs to be aired.
Any more, I try and limit posting to topics that meet certain criteria: 1) I'm credibly knowledgeable either through professional or personal effort, 2) I'm willing to engage in the discussion commensurate to the likelihood there will be replies, and 3) what I'm saying hasn't already been said just as well before.
I don't generally feel stress about posting anymore, but I often decide it isn't worth my time either because what I would say has been said, because the discussion is unlikely to be productive (e.g. the people in the thread, even on Tildes, are arguing in bad faith), or I'm simply not interested enough to put in a high quality reply with follow ups.
I think some of it is simply a matter of building confidence in your positions, but also recognizing when you are outside of your area of expertise and learning to use probabilistic language and quickly learn or admit mistakes.