So I kind of want to get out of the Gmail ecosystem, and have been eyeing Proton as a good replacement, but I can't help but to think that nearly all of Proton's selling points and marketing points are all smoke and mirrors.

And I don't know, maybe I'm looking at this entirely the wrong way, I am just really struggling to see the appeal of Proton.

First, I'll start with my "threat model".

In general I want to be more anonymous online and slip under the radar better.

I'm not planning on doing anything clandestine, but with the direction the US is going, I'd rather not be an easy target if I want to be active in activism spaces if you catch my drift.

And I'm also interested in staying off of databrokers radars, or obfuscate myself to prevent coherent tracking.

With that being said, it seems that even with a proton email if someone wanted to find my identity they could, data brokers or governments alike, even if I pay for my subscription with cash.

And not that I'm really worried about that, but to me that negates like the entirety of Proton's marketing gimmick.

And I'm failing to see what functional benefit Proton has when it comes to privacy outside of just being "aesthetically private".

Here are some of my concerns, please feel free to correct me if I'm completely offbase with any of the logic below, but this is just my initial thoughts, and I'd love to hear some feedback and/or be corrected or provided more context.

1. Why does the encryption of the message body matter if the envelope and address are is still exposed? If a government or data broker can get the sender/receiver info, timestamps, and my IP, they have a map of my life. Isn't the "private content" just a distraction from the real leak? Like other than not having my emails used to train AI or data being sold to data brokers, I can't find a functional improvement or benefit to my daily life to use Proton outside of thinking "Yeah, fuck The Man" every time I log in. Like I am more worried about governments and data brokers knowing who I'm sending/receiving things from than I am about the content of those messages being exposed since I'm not going to be monologuing evil plans over email, and I really don't care if the databroker tracking me knows that I bought a case of liquid death root beer 4 times in one month since they get that information from Amazon or whatever website anyways.

2. Everyone talks about "Swiss protection," but isn't that just a speed bump? If the U.S. government goes to Switzerland with an MLAT request, Proton has to comply. And even if I've payed with cash, they can still be compelled to log the IP logins and hand over the alias emails and primary mailbox used by that account and the metadata. So if I sign up for something using an alias, they can take that alias and file an MLAT request with Switzerland to get my main email, the metadata for my entire inbox(just not the body content) and the other aliases tied to that account, and then do a search for any services using those emails to find my identity. They could technically use an alias email I've made, send an information request to Switzerland/Proton, get back a list of aliases and email metadata, find that I used an alias to sign up to a pizza delivery service, then subpoena that pizza delivery service for my name, phone number, and address, at that point what's the point? Is the point just to make it harder for them? I'm not planning on doing anything that could get them to want to subpoena my emails ANYWAYS, but what's the point of making it harder for them outside of again, just thinking to myself "haha fuck you" every time I send an email?

3. Even if I use an alias, if the site I use the alias on gets tied to my online data/identity, then my privacy is broken, right? Like lets say I want to sign up for a new site called godotshaders.com, I use a proton alias to sign up. This site then collects that data, my IP, my cookie data, browser user agent string data, and that I'm logged into some account with my other non-proton email, etc, that gets tied to my browsing data they're collecting, and suddenly they've linked that alias email to my advertising profile and other browsing. Rinse & repeat. Now all the aliases are tied to me. I don't see how these emails help with online advertising tracking.

4. I have tons of accounts I use, my bitwarden login count sits at around 850 logins, but I probably only regularly use a small fraction of those. But if I end up changing my email on a lot of those accounts to the proton email, even a proton alias, all that does for data brokers is potentially tie every one of those new alias emails to me. And at that point there is no difference in my data broker information just that I have 850 different alias emails. But my data is still tied to those accounts. So AGAIN, what's the point of this? Do I need to sign up for everything from scratch in order to maybe have privacy?

Hey there Tildes, hopefully someone could help me with this. I'm having problems importing all my emails I exported from ProtonMail into macOS Mail app/iCloud.

Recently decided to move my custom domain email addresses to iCloud so I could just use the built-in Mail app on my Mac and iPhone. I backed up all of my emails with ProtonMail's own export tool. It exported every email (or maybe email thread?) as a .eml file and .json file (metadata I believe). After exporting, I switch the domain names over to iCloud. It was pretty easy. I guess I assumed all of my emails would somehow come with me? Seems silly thinking about it now. But I have a backup of all my emails!

All seemed fine until I tried to import them into macOS Mail. Mail wants a mailbox format (.mbox I believe), but I only have .eml files. It let me select all of the .eml files and import them anyway but it's taking about 10 seconds or more per email and I have like ~17,000 emails. ChatGPT says thats 47 hours 13 minutes 20 seconds. It's also freezing the mail app during this insane import process. It would be great if I didn't have to wait that long and that's assuming something doesn't go wrong/the app crashes.

No, I don't need all of those emails (I actually deleted about 10,000 over the past month) but now I'm kind of screwed. I guess for security reasons, when you delete the domain from ProtonMail, it deletes all the emails (as far as I can tell, at least). I'm mentioning this because I was thinking I could have tried to find a way to export it in .mbox format or even delete more emails but it's too late for that.

The way the emails were exported, the filenames are jumbles of letters and numbers so I cant even use Finder to search for specific emails when I need them. I can open each individual email in Mail, so it's not like the files are encrypted, I don't think.

One thing I thought of -- I once used Mail with ProtonBridge that would allow you to use ProtonMail with the Mail app, but still use Proton servers and it synced all my emails with my computer. I disabled that account some time ago (didn't delete it or remove it completely from the list of accounts, just unchecked it). Do you think that directory of emails is still on my computer somewhere? And would it be useable in my situation?

I do realize this is completely of my own doing and should have been more thoughtful but I'm here now and would love any help y'all could give. Thanks everyone!

Edit_1: Oh no... I found the directory for Mail in Application Support and it looks like the Mail importer is making a mailbox for every single email. I tried importing these emails earlier today and it looks like it might have imported everything? Here's a screenshot. 🪦

I wonder if I could try and import them into another app and then export in a better format? Thunderbird? Ugh, I really do need a lot of these emails…

Edit_2: So the export tool mentioned above has a restore feature so currently trying that. It will just import these emails back into ProtonMail and I’ll have to figure out the export part again. Hopefully this works!

Hello everyone! I have been currently debating switching email providers. I have been with Proton for a few years now (free user), but I have become increasingly disappointed. Firstly, I am not exactly a fan of the “we have apps for everything” model, particularly the integration of a password manager is just strange and the crypto wallet feels a bit nauseating, as I have my reservations about cryptocurrency. Consolidating all of my services in a company such as Proton feels misguided if the goal is to avoid walled gardens from the tech giants. There are also some other more recent things that have come up in relation to Proton that just make me question the legitimacy of Proton's “guiding moral imperative” as a privacy focussed company.

Moving on from that, I have mostly settled on two options due to their

• low cost
• generally adequate security (I understand email's limitations on this front, I just want something to be secure enough)
• transparency reports
• location of operation

The main thing I am struggling with here are the pros and cons between the two platforms.

Posteo seems to be less ideal of an email provider because they do not support ARC and lack a good DMARC policy. BUT they claim to support encryption with their calendars, but does this even matter if you are accessing the calendars with CalDAV (which I do not beliece is an E2EE connection)?

I think I trust Mailbox.org more when it comes to security, but I think their contacts / calendar situation is somewhat worse, and their French translation seems … lacking in spots (not that it matters to me much, but still is somewhat jarring for me).

I could just ignore the contacts/calendar problem, and use something like EteSync, but that would become just another thing to pay for, and another app to operate (if I need to use the WebDav bridge).

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated, I am really hoping this inspires some interesting conversations! And of course, feel free to tell me about better options if I have overlooked something. Have a lovely day :)

I recently had a hankering to return to one of my all-time favorite games: FUEL. I couldn't stop thinking: how cool would it be if I could revisit the game from the comfort of my Steam Deck?

That was my dream, but a few problems stood in the way:

1. FUEL was released in 2009 and was delisted from Steam in 2013. (Thankfully, I have a copy of it in my library, but we're talking about an installation build that is over a decade out-of-date at this point.)

2. FUEL still has Securom DRM.

3. FUEL still requires Games for Windows Live, which was also shut down in 2013.

4. FUEL is pretty mediocre unless you install the REFUELED mod.

So, I sat down with my Steam Deck and a hope and a prayer that maybe, somehow, I could get this game working?

Hurdle 1 wasn't even a hurdle. Proton is so damn good now. The game installed and ran flawlessly. I honestly never should have second-guessed it in the first place!

Hurdle 2 was also, surprisingly, a non-issue. Either the Securom servers are somehow still live and actually checked my CD key, or the dialog box lied to me as part of an offline fallback and told me I was cleared anyway (I'm thinking this is more likely?). Either way, I was happy.

Hurdle 3 was the first actual block. The game crashes when trying to pull up GFWL, which is pretty much what I expected -- the service has been down for over a decade now. Thankfully, there's an unexpectedly easy fix. Xliveless is a DLL that bypasses GFWL and lets the game boot (and save) without it.

Hurdle 4 isn't really a hurdle per se, but that's only because the Steam Deck lets you boot into Desktop Mode and get fully under the hood. I downloaded the mod, dumped the files in the installation folder, ran the mod manager through Protontricks, and then set up all of my mod choices. I then jumped back into game mode, and the game is flawlessly running -- mods and all.

I should also mention that I did all of this on-device. I didn't need to break out a mouse and a keyboard or transfer files from my desktop or anything. From the first install of the game to running it fully modded took me maybe ten minutes total? It was amazingly quick, and most of that time was me searching up information or waiting for the Deck to boot over and back between Desktop and Game Mode.

I realize that, in the grand scheme of game tinkering, this doesn't sound like a whole lot, but that's honestly the point. The fact that this comes across as sort of mundane and uneventful is, paradoxically, what makes it noteworthy. If we're keeping score here, I am:

• playing a 2009 Windows game,
• that was delisted in 2013,
• on a Linux handheld device in 2024.

I also:

• somehow passed the game's decade-old DRM check,
• bypassed the game's second DRM system that has been officially shut down for over a decade,
• modded the game in literal seconds,
• and did all that using only a controller -- while lying on my couch.

From a zoomed out perspective, I shouldn't be able to play this game. FUEL should be dead and buried -- nothing more than a fond memory for me. Even if I turn the dial a little more towards optimism, it really shouldn't be this easy to get up and running. I thought I was going to spend hours trying to get it going, with no guarantee that it ever would. Instead I was driving around its world in mere minutes.

I'm literally holding FUEL and its massive open-world in my hands, fifteen years after its release, on an operating system it's not supposed to run on, and on a device nobody could have even imagined was possible when the game released.

We really are living in the future. I remain in absolute awe of and incredibly grateful for all the work that people do to make stuff like this possible.

I've gamed my entire life on Windows until about a month ago, when I switched due to my dissatisfaction with it as an operating system (another thread, another time). After years of hearing that gaming on Linux was improving thanks to Steam Deck and Proton, I took the plunge and installed Pop!_OS on my desktop and loaded my favorite games. Holy smokes, it's amazing. I haven't found a game yet that's required any custom tweaking; download the game through Steam, let it install whatever it needs to on first run, and away they go. I'm blown away.

However, I want to start exploring Linux-native titles in a more deliberate manner. Do many others here game on Linux, and if so what are some of your favorites that you would recommend now that the Steam Summer Sale is on? I mostly gravitate towards builders and colony simulators, RPGs, and 4X games, but I'll take any recommendations that people are excited to share.

[Edit to add:] Thanks for your recommendations everyone! I'll definitely check out several of these.

I've been running Linux full-time pretty much since Valve released Proton. I remember submitting reports to ProtonDB back when it was just a shared Google Sheet! In the years that followed I made it a point to test and report out on different games as new versions of Proton were released and support improved. I thought it important that we have a good data set for what worked and what didn't. Over those years I tested hundreds of games and submitted as many reports to the database.

In thinking back over my gaming in 2023, however, I realized that I fell out of the habit of submitting reports because I'm so used to Proton working that it's stopped occurring to me that it might not.

That doesn't mean that there aren't some games that don't work -- it simply means that the success rate that I used to have (maybe 30-50% on average) has risen high enough that I'm genuinely surprised if something doesn't work (it's probably somewhere around 95% for me now, though that's biased by the types of games that I play). I actually tried to remember the last game that didn't work, and I genuinely couldn't tell you what it was. Everything I've played recently has booted like it's native.

Honestly, I genuinely don't even know which games are native and which run through Proton anymore. I've stopped caring!

I got my Steam Deck halfway through 2022. It was awesome, but it was definitely a bit rough around the edges. There weren't that many compatible games. The OS had some clunkiness. It matured though, and has gotten better. Among my friend group, I'm the only person who cares even a little bit about Linux. If you asked any of them to name three different Linux distributions they'd stare at you blankly because they wouldn't understand the question. Nevertheless, of my friends, SIX of them have Steam Decks and are now gaming regularly on Linux.

There are currently ~4,300 Deck Verified games and ~8,700 Deck Playable games according to Valve. On ProtonDB, ~8,600 games have been verified as working on Linux by at least three users, while ~19,700 games have been verified by at least one user. There is SO much variety available, and the speed with which we've gotten here has been pretty breathtaking.

This was my device breakdown for my Steam Replay for 2023:

• 55% Steam Deck
• 32% Linux
• 10% Virtual Reality
• 4% Windows

The only non-Linux gaming I did was VR and some local multiplayer stuff I have on a Windows machine hooked up to my TV.

I don't want to proselytize too much, but if you have a general interest in gaming, you could probably switch over to Linux full time and be perfectly happy with the variety of games you have available to you. Not too long ago, making the jump felt like a huge sacrifice because you'd be giving up so much -- SO many games were incompatible -- but it no longer feels that way. You can transfer and most of -- probably almost all -- your library will still work! Also, if a particular game doesn't work, there isn't too much sting because, well, there are thousands of others you can give your attention to.

If you have a specific game that you must play, then it's possibly a different story. If you love Destiny 2, for example, then full-time Linux definitely is not for you. The same goes VR -- it's simply not up to snuff on Linux yet. There are other niches too that don't transfer over as well (modding, racing sims, etc.) so, of course, this isn't a blanket recommendation and everyone's situation is different.

But for a prototypical person who's just your sort of general, everyday gamer? It's reached a point where they could be very happy on Linux. In fact, as proven by my friends and their Steam Decks, it's reached a point where people can be gaming on Linux and not even know they're doing that. That's how frictionless it's gotten!

I don't really have a point to this post other than to say it's incredible that we are where we are, and I'm beyond appreciative of all the effort that people have put in to making this possible.

I have self-hosted my email for many years, but am finally encountering some straws that may be breaking the camel's back. A few email providers are now rejecting my server's mail, Microsoft in particular (@hotmail, @outlook). (In case you're wondering, I already set up SPF, DKIM, DMARC, etc. and none of that is the issue.) Self-hosting was fine, and the technical admin work was never really an issue. I'm just tired of the external factors that are beyond my control, like belonging to an IP range that is scored badly by some random blocklist company.

So, I'm now shopping for a good email provider. Privacy and security are important to me, and I am more than willing to pay for email, so all the usual "free" email providers are out of the question. (Update) Also, client access (IMAP, SMTP) is a must.

For now, I am eyeing

• Fastmail Standard plan @ 5 USD / mo
• Proton Unlimited plan @ 10 USD / mo

Proton is looking to be my choice among those two, as I like the replyable email aliases feature. 16 times the storage doesn't hurt, either.

Any other recommendations in the same vein as these two, and in the same price range?

I am curious to see what other peoples experience has been with all of their apps?

I made the decision to switch to proton for mail, drive, calendar and vpn 7 months ago. I wanted to get away from having all my stuff tied to apple/google/microsoft. While it has been pretty solid for the most part, especially with android. The same cannot be said for their iOS/iPadOS apps at all. This will be my personal observation from my experience with iOS/iPadOS apps.

Mail - Pretty solid all around experience, timely notifications on incoming mail. I have 4 email addresses setup based on the type of account I used for them. I only get bothered by the emails that I would need to see and the rest get checked around once a day. Recently the whole app on both iPad and iPhone has just slowed down so much. Opening the app is frustratingly slow, while everything loads in. I will get a new email and click on the notification and the app will sometimes load the last email I viewed and not the one from the notification. I have cleared the cache and signed out and then back in and it still has this behavior.

Drive - This one is the biggest pain point for me. On iPhone the app crashes when you try to watch a video in landscape mode. This is a pretty basic feature in 2023 if you ask me. I did report the bug, to which they said they are aware and have no timeline for when it will be fixed. The next biggest issue with drive on iOS/iPadOS is that you can only upload 1 file at a time. If you do multiple files if not all, almost all of them will fail to upload. You have to do it 1 file at a time. Reported this and was told the same thing I was about the landscape mode. Seems odd to not want to fix a core function of a cloud storage app as soon as possible.

VPN - I really enjoy this vpn and have paid for just the vpn in past. Now it constantly disconnects or gets stuck in connecting. I can’t use quick connect unless I manually pick a country connect then disconnect. After that I can use quick connect with out any issues. This happens without having secure core toggle on. This is happening on both my iPad and iPhone. Waiting on them to actually help trouble shoot this after sending them a bug report.

Calendar - Is the most useless app they have every put out. I was so excited to finally dial this calendar app in when I got my iPad. Only to find out that they don’t have an iPad version of their calendar. Which makes no sense because that is an app that can really shine on an iPad when do well. This whole app just feels like an after thought and they only have it just to say we have a calendar app too.

I feel that compared to when I started using all of their apps back in December. The quality and stability of the apps has really taken a hit. I understand that they probably have a focus on building their brand with an app suite based on privacy. I feel like the quality is really taking a hit especially with iOS/iPadOS versions of the apps. The obvious answer is to just switch back to android and save myself the headache of apple. The reason for apple is a whole post in its own and I want to keep this one on topic.

For clarification, I have been using the iOS versions since December. I was switching between pixel 7 pro and 14 pro max every few weeks. Having an eco system of apps not based on either platform was also why I chose proton everything.

Hi,

I saw that Proton now has a Family Plan that includes all of their services including mail, calendar, drive, etc.

I've been looking to detach my and my family's life a bit from the big corps like Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Proton sounds interesting.

At the same time I am wondering if they're really to be trusted any more than any other company. I found some critique of the E2E encryption being basically snake oil and not properly implemented etc. I am of course aware that there're always tradeoffs and while privacy is definitely nice, I don't need to go to an extreme degree of "no logs whatsoever, never even turning anything over to the police", I think I am just mostly looking to make me and my family less of a product of advertising, possibly AI/ML and so on, so some compromise is definitely possible.

I am curious, does anyone here have any experience with or opinions on the company and their products?

A few years ago I decided to ditch Gmail and started using Disroot as my e-mail provider. It was recommended by privacytools.io.

I realized that at least one e-mail I sent went to spam and now every time I send an e-mail I get paranoid if it will reach its destination. Is there a way to know if the e-mails I send are opened?

I've thought about switching to a more mainstream e-mail provider like ProtonMail but I already have so many accounts linked to Disroot that make switching dreadful. As a matter of fact I still have over 100 accounts that are using my Gmail address because it's so time intensive and not a priority to do the switch. Hopefully in the password-less future this kind of problem will cease to exist.

So I've spent the last few days trying to sync everything up between devices, with the following thoughts in mind:

1. how fucked am I going to be if a device gets corrupted/stolen/lost?
2. how can I easily access everything I need from a mobile device/device not belonging to me?
3. how can I avoid using services from the big tech companies, and keep things open source, as much as possible?

I'm by no means an expert in the field, and I'm hoping in this thread to get a discussion going as to the pros and cons of using different services/setups, to get a general idea as to what others are doing to keep their daily lives simpler and more secure, and to perhaps see what are the future steps for me to take when I feel like playing around again.

Servers & Storage
I span up a 25GB VPS with Vultr for 'active use data', and also took out some 'deep storage'(?) from Wasabi for things which I need to keep, but not really access that much.

Mail
Protonmail with custom domain. Using the ProtonMail app for mobile, and Linux ProtonMail bridge with Evolution mail for desktop.

Pics/Vids
Nextcloud autoupload feature on mobile automatically uploads my pics to an 'autoupload' folder on Nextcloud server. Here, I categorise pics into folders and share what needs sharing before deleting anything I don't need and wiping the pics on my phone.

Passwords
Nothing yet. Looking at getting KeyPass synced across devices.

Bookmarks
Again, nothing yet. Had Firefox Sync running to connect Fennec and Firefox, but am looking for a more open approach which involves Nextcloud somehow, and allows me to tag and order things more effectively as opposed to dragging things around in the sidebar.

Calendar/Contacts
Evolution calendar on desktop, simple calendar on mobile, hooked up to Nextcloud and all synced using davx5

Programs and General Setup
Here, I'd like to somehow take an image/backup of my Ubuntu configs of importance and experiment with getting my setup and customisaitons replicated on another machine quickly and without taking up too much space in storage (i.e. don't need to bakckup all my files as they're already on cloud).

Also, I am very curious as to whether anybody is using Syncthing across their devices? And if so, how are they finding the experience?

I made this an "event" over on reddit, and I figured I'd also mention it here.

The Steam summer sale is alleged to start on June 23rd, and I figured it would be nice if people could go into it with current information on Proton compatibility for games so we can better know what to buy and avoid. As such, it would be great if we could all submit a bunch of ProtonDB reports this coming week.

I plan to go through my library and test high-leverage games: either ones that lack reports or games whose reports are quite old. Let me know if you're wanting to join in the "fun!"