Any website that large will have issues with moderation, its kind of inevitable. People will get banned and then make new accounts, or just learn to toe the line to not get banned. There's simply...
Any website that large will have issues with moderation, its kind of inevitable. People will get banned and then make new accounts, or just learn to toe the line to not get banned. There's simply no solution to moderate websites of that scale consistently, at least not without doing something like requiring every account to be tied to a different individual person and verifying this.
oh undoubtedly, I suppose in the grand scheme "we don't like nazis but we can't catch them all" is better than "nazis deserve an equal voice to you" as a corporate philosophy I'll avoid both...
oh undoubtedly, I suppose in the grand scheme "we don't like nazis but we can't catch them all" is better than "nazis deserve an equal voice to you" as a corporate philosophy
I'll avoid both though because I have standards for myself
It's interesting how they're advertising as a Instagram app, instead of a Meta or Facebook product. While I do think this more appealing to non-tech users compared to the fediverse options, I...
It's interesting how they're advertising as a Instagram app, instead of a Meta or Facebook product. While I do think this more appealing to non-tech users compared to the fediverse options, I still see this going the way of Lasso.
LOL I know tildes is for more better discussion than simply LOL so I'll add here that this is probably the most succinct summary of how I feel and I'll be paraphrasing and stealing this for my own...
LOL
I know tildes is for more better discussion than simply LOL so I'll add here that this is probably the most succinct summary of how I feel and I'll be paraphrasing and stealing this for my own use! Thank you.
I can't touch it even without a pole, they're not bringing it to the EU because it's a personal information collection tool that's 100% against everything the GDPR is for :D Dunno how they're...
I can't touch it even without a pole, they're not bringing it to the EU because it's a personal information collection tool that's 100% against everything the GDPR is for :D
Dunno how they're handling CCPA though, it's even more strict in some cases.
Someone I know made an account and was looking around at deletion, apparently as of now you can't delete your Threads account without deleting your Instagram which is a big red flag.
Someone I know made an account and was looking around at deletion, apparently as of now you can't delete your Threads account without deleting your Instagram which is a big red flag.
We have been advocating for interoperability between platforms for years. The biggest hurdle to users switching platforms when those platforms become exploitative is the lock-in of the social graph, the fact that switching platforms means abandoning everyone you know and who knows you. The fact that large platforms are adopting ActivityPub is not only validation of the movement towards decentralized social media, but a path forward for people locked into these platforms to switch to better providers. Which in turn, puts pressure on such platforms to provide better, less exploitative services. This is a clear victory for our cause, hopefully one of many to come.
In theory it's a positive thing, we want big corporations to adopt decentralized technology, but then I'm reminded of what happened with XMPP (used to be a messaging standard hangouts, facebook,...
In theory it's a positive thing, we want big corporations to adopt decentralized technology, but then I'm reminded of what happened with XMPP (used to be a messaging standard hangouts, facebook, etc. all followed and then abandoned) and I just see a repeat of that here.
I can see Facebook slowly starting to implement their own standards for things and forcing everyone else to follow suit if they want to be compatible. And that's not even mentioning the idea of them cutting access to the rest of the fediverse whenever they feel like it once they've absorbed most of the market.
And what if I interact with a user on threads? Does my data now belong to meta even though I'm on a totally separate instance?
I just can't have good faith in these giant corporations whose revenue model is based on monopolies and selling user data.
This is also why I have no qualms with basically every instance admin I know pre-emptively defederating from threads.
So, according to this and if it stays that way, your (non-public) data should be left alone. But there's no guarantee anywhere there won't be anything happening that changes that. I understand...
[...] we cache and reprocess images and videos for you to view, so that the originating server cannot get your IP address, browser name, or time of access. A server you are not signed up with and logged into cannot get your private data or track you across the web. What it can get are your public profile and public posts, which are publicly accessible.
So, according to this and if it stays that way, your (non-public) data should be left alone. But there's no guarantee anywhere there won't be anything happening that changes that. I understand your concern.
I've found this article and discussion regarding this issue very interesting: https://tildes.net/~tech/16v3/how_to_kill_a_decentralised_network_such_as_the_fediverse
Seems like they hastened the launch date. I couldn't find it directly on the app store for some reason, and had to use the link on the verge article. Looks like it's Instagram login only (although...
Seems like they hastened the launch date. I couldn't find it directly on the app store for some reason, and had to use the link on the verge article.
Looks like it's Instagram login only (although I suppose that's an arbitrary distinction anyway?). When I logged in, I was prompted to follow people I follow on instagram - it seems how that works is that if they make a threads account, I will automatically follow them.
Meta seems to have done a good job coordinated in the background many influential Twitter users to pre-emptively start making tweets threads - I see Shams, the NBA news leaker/informant, CNBC, a littany of other companies, and several celebrities.
It's definitely the most real threat to Twitter, because Instagram has straight up more users than Twitter by a large margin to begin with, and certainly with "normal users" (which Mastodon could never attract).
I finally got tired of not being able to see people's Instagram links and made an account a few months ago... only to have it suspended a few weeks in for absolutely no reason despite me never...
I finally got tired of not being able to see people's Instagram links and made an account a few months ago... only to have it suspended a few weeks in for absolutely no reason despite me never posting or doing literally anything else besides look at things. They wanted me to upload a selfie to dispute it... how about NO?
Rumor is Threads was hastily cobbled together by Twitter employees who left during the mass firings. I'm guessing within a month or two it will branch off from Instagram and require a Meta account.
Rumor is Threads was hastily cobbled together by Twitter employees who left during the mass firings. I'm guessing within a month or two it will branch off from Instagram and require a Meta account.
It's interesting that they're planning on integration with the Fediverse. I wonder how that will go. I made an account to check it out, since I already had an Instagram account. So far, pretty...
It's interesting that they're planning on integration with the Fediverse. I wonder how that will go. I made an account to check it out, since I already had an Instagram account. So far, pretty similar to Twitter.
I went to Zuck's "let's do this, welcome to threads" post which was supposed to have 1,000+ comments. I noticed the comments started looping after maybe like 20 or so comments? I wonder if that's a bug or if they were stress testing with thousands of duplicated comments.
I honestly hope my instance does not federate with them. I don't use Instagram, and I don't think the average Instagram user is going to provide valuable conversation. I actually really like...
I honestly hope my instance does not federate with them. I don't use Instagram, and I don't think the average Instagram user is going to provide valuable conversation. I actually really like Mastodon the way it is right now.
The pearl-clutching about Meta playing in the Fediverse and the absolutist reactions across Mastodon and Lemmy have been both embarrassing and telling. The fact of the matter is Meta and other...
The pearl-clutching about Meta playing in the Fediverse and the absolutist reactions across Mastodon and Lemmy have been both embarrassing and telling. The fact of the matter is Meta and other tech giants will play in this space if it is a viable source of users and source of content for current users. If these platforms cannot be successful in the presence of Meta et al. they aren't strong enough to thrive in their absence either.
Hiding your head in the sand doesn't stop whatever you're hiding from.
That's ridiculous, as if any social platform needed Meta to thrive. Meta is an awful corporation with a history of constant abuse. Hell, even Threads is so abusive that it can't launch in Europe...
If these platforms cannot be successful in the presence of Meta et al. they aren't strong enough to thrive in their absence either.
That's ridiculous, as if any social platform needed Meta to thrive. Meta is an awful corporation with a history of constant abuse. Hell, even Threads is so abusive that it can't launch in Europe right now. The fear is not to have Meta users on the fediverse, the fear is that Meta could very well embrace/extend/extinguish it out of self-preservation.
They need the users and the content they generate. Pretending that Meta's userbase isn't massive and able to contribute at a scale that outright dwarfs all other instances combined is just...
They need the users and the content they generate. Pretending that Meta's userbase isn't massive and able to contribute at a scale that outright dwarfs all other instances combined is just ignoring reality.
Agree, but I didn't say that, and this isn't the same statement as "your social network can't thrive without Meta"
Pretending that Meta's userbase isn't massive and able to contribute at a scale that outright dwarfs all other instances combined is just ignoring reality.
Agree, but I didn't say that, and this isn't the same statement as "your social network can't thrive without Meta"
TBF, reddit has said the exact same about Tildes time and time again. They aren't wrong but are also wrong. As long as we don't define "thrive", we can't properly communicate these things. I infer...
If these platforms cannot be successful in the presence of Meta et al. they aren't strong enough to thrive in their absence either.
TBF, reddit has said the exact same about Tildes time and time again. They aren't wrong but are also wrong.
As long as we don't define "thrive", we can't properly communicate these things. I infer from your statement that "thrive" means "can become a viable competitor to the top websites", but that may not be what other Mastodon users define it as, nor even desire.
Hiding your head in the sand doesn't stop whatever you're hiding from.
In the same way I and others "hide my head in the sand" by not interacting on Facebook/Instagram, I guess. I'm not pretending my lack of pretense is toppling a billion dollar corporation. I simply see it as tailoring my own internet experience. something I've been doing for the better part of 20 years now.
Tildes is nice. However, it is super niche and you can consume and engage with all of the fresh content on here in around an hour a day. That's not what the average user is looking for, hell it's...
Tildes is nice. However, it is super niche and you can consume and engage with all of the fresh content on here in around an hour a day. That's not what the average user is looking for, hell it's not what the vast majority of users are looking for.
It should also be mentioned that choosing not to visit Facebook.com is quite different from harassing instance admins about anything other than a total commitment to defederate with Meta and other large tech instances.
...and it's okay for many places on the net to remain niche. Why is niche bad? I personally do not care what the average user is looking for- if it's not what they're looking for- it's simply not...
...and it's okay for many places on the net to remain niche. Why is niche bad?
I personally do not care what the average user is looking for- if it's not what they're looking for- it's simply not for them, period, IMHO
Everything doesn't have to be a popularity competitor with everything else
The big services with the least friction, which in turn generally tend to be the ones backed by terrible businesses with awful leadership and privacy behavior, seem to always be the ones that will get critical mass- and I'm glad that smaller communities, with no intent on becoming those types of entities, are choosing to be a bulwark against them via defederation. Allow them to exist, but not pollute
Edited to add: The only reason I'm on any of the big services at all (begrudgingly) is because of critical mass (family, friends) - so I understand that - but I don't view my Mastodon instance as some kind of replacement, it's simply just a different community that I wouldn't expect or even want my regular family/friends group on- it's just not for them. I would love for there to be a privacy respecting, well run, highly moderated "big social" service, but that just does not exist at this time, and Threads will not be it. Will it be extremely popular? Maybe, but the big services I begrudgingly use- I am under no confusion about how shitty the companies are that run them, of which Meta is one of the worst
I don't think they were saying that platforms that are more niche are actually bad, just that most people aren't going to limit their social media use to that kind of experience. For better and...
I don't think they were saying that platforms that are more niche are actually bad, just that most people aren't going to limit their social media use to that kind of experience. For better and worse, plenty of folks want to connect and have their posts and ideas be seen by lots of other people. I think that all kinds of social media, big and small, should have a place on the internet, since they all have their own unique strengths and pitfalls. Being in a cozy little Mastodon instance is nice, but it can feel painfully suburban sometimes, and I go to the public square of Twitter (or maybe Threads now?) if I want to see a more active/firehose-like stream of posts. Nowhere is going to be free of toxicity, so at the end of the day, social media won't save us and we need real-life connections too.
Sure, but I was never "the average user" to begin with. Be it in my gamefaqs days arguing about the best RPG or funding some much niche social media sites the mass populace have no idea exists...
That's not what the average user is looking for, hell it's not what the vast majority of users are looking for.
Sure, but I was never "the average user" to begin with. Be it in my gamefaqs days arguing about the best RPG or funding some much niche social media sites the mass populace have no idea exists today.
Fortunately, it's not about appealing to everyone but finding enough of a specific audience. Much harder but feels really good when it does happen.
choosing not to visit Facebook.com is quite different from harassing instance admins about anything other than a total commitment to defederate with Meta and other large tech instances
Ehh, Id just silently quit the instance if it came down to it. No point negotiating unless the admins specifically reach out to the audience, which im guessing they did.
I do not condone harassment in any case. If you feel so strongly, take advantage of the freedom of federation and find an instance that you're comfortable with. If that means you leaving alone and needing to rebuild, that's simply a consequence of your action.
You say that like every person in the interwebs is always on some sort of social media. If I can come into tildes 2-3 times a week, and absorb all the "New" I'm perfectly fine with that. I think...
You say that like every person in the interwebs is always on some sort of social media.
If I can come into tildes 2-3 times a week, and absorb all the "New" I'm perfectly fine with that.
...but how do you measure success? I think there are many ways from the perspective of social media sites. One is "this is a website where everyone that you want to communicate with has an...
...but how do you measure success? I think there are many ways from the perspective of social media sites.
One is "this is a website where everyone that you want to communicate with has an account", which is a desirable goal for many. This is also (necessarily) the measure of success for for-profit sites, since they need as many people to be using it as possible.
But another, also desirable goal is "this is a website where people have nice conversations and interactions, and don't regret the time they spend here". This is the goal that Mastodon (and Tildes!) is going for, and it isn't affected by the relative popularity of other sites. However, federating with instances which don't intend to properly moderate content does threaten that goal, which is why some Mastodon instances are choosing not to.
Mastodon and Lemmy are essentially, at present time, completely unmoderated. You'll get aggressively scolded for not using as many trigger warnings as possible and borderline harassed for not...
Mastodon and Lemmy are essentially, at present time, completely unmoderated. You'll get aggressively scolded for not using as many trigger warnings as possible and borderline harassed for not including alt text in an image post on Mastodon, but that's it. The closest that Lemmy has come to moderation is the larger instances finally defederating from exploding heads, and it's hard to call a decision that obvious "active moderation."
Meta and others will bring a professionalism and legal compliance to moderation in the Fediverse that is completely absent right now. It's far from perfect, but much better than the status quo. And if instances want the status quo, don't federate -- it's that easy. But, don't be surprised when the instances with billions of users creating content on federated instances absolutely eat your lunch and user numbers dwindle to zero.
Well, why not just defederate from meta, for your specific account only? Both mastodon and afaik also kbin offer client side defederation. Why do you want your instance to do it for everyone?
Well, why not just defederate from meta, for your specific account only? Both mastodon and afaik also kbin offer client side defederation. Why do you want your instance to do it for everyone?
With something that big, if you don't defederate the whole instance you won't escape it. Also this is just kinda how Mastodon rolls. It'll be alarming to free speech absolutists but this is by far...
With something that big, if you don't defederate the whole instance you won't escape it. Also this is just kinda how Mastodon rolls. It'll be alarming to free speech absolutists but this is by far the norm. I've seen instances get muted for themselves not defederating from an instance hosting a single well-known and prolific fascist, and the decision was widely approved of by the community. Again, that'll be alien and nigh-dystopian to a free speech absolutist, but it's the norm there to not give any breathing room to threats. They take the "if you have one nazi at a dinner table..." saying quite seriously.
Yes, the instance I am on pulls no punches and defederates from many other instances that have what they consider inadequate moderation. They also defederate from any instance that has strong...
Yes, the instance I am on pulls no punches and defederates from many other instances that have what they consider inadequate moderation. They also defederate from any instance that has strong capitalist/corporate, pro-cop sentiment, or a perceived danger of surveillance.
I love that some instances of Mastodon are like that- and most of the users in these smaller communities have no desire to switch to something like Threads- so Meta / "Big Social" are not a seen as a threat to them in terms of longevity/membership- only a threat in terms of what those big networks represent
Sure, it's only when I see it with a capital T that I even think of that film. I know they mean threads of internet conversation etc, it's just funny to me because Threads is notoriously bleak.
Sure, it's only when I see it with a capital T that I even think of that film.
I know they mean threads of internet conversation etc, it's just funny to me because Threads is notoriously bleak.
Makes me think of the antagonist from The Dragonriders of Pern. Which I guess makes Mastodon the planet Pern, and instance admins riders of genetically engineered dragons whose sole job is to...
Makes me think of the antagonist from The Dragonriders of Pern. Which I guess makes Mastodon the planet Pern, and instance admins riders of genetically engineered dragons whose sole job is to destroy Threads before they can get a foothold on Pern.
Have you read that series recently? I'm curious to know if it's as good as I remember. I last read it when I was in middle school I think, and now all I can remember about it was that it was a far...
Have you read that series recently? I'm curious to know if it's as good as I remember.
I last read it when I was in middle school I think, and now all I can remember about it was that it was a far future alt world fantasy. I think at one point someone teleported 200 years back in time and did a blood transfusion with a carnivorous vine? Should I put it in my backlog?
I read a combination of the first three books recently (Dragonflight, Dragonquest, and The White Dragon). I also hadn't read any of the books since middle school. Honestly, I was pretty impressed...
I read a combination of the first three books recently (Dragonflight, Dragonquest, and The White Dragon). I also hadn't read any of the books since middle school. Honestly, I was pretty impressed -- the universe is well thought out, there are a lot of strong characters of each gender, and the writing style is cleaner than any modern YA I've read. In terms of middle school reading, it's not quite Daniel Pinkwater, but it is some solid fun sci fi/fantasy! A good read for a day at the beach, where you might not need to pay full attention but still want something fun to imagine.
I read the wiki on it. Nuclear bomb goes off, people suffer, there's a baby at the end, that one? Sort of like reverse Children Of Men? What made it so effectively horrifying for you?
I read the wiki on it. Nuclear bomb goes off, people suffer, there's a baby at the end, that one? Sort of like reverse Children Of Men? What made it so effectively horrifying for you?
I'm not the person you're asking, but Threads depicted nuclear war in a time where it was very possible to actually happen at any moment. Imagine watching Jaws while you're drifting on a surf...
I'm not the person you're asking, but Threads depicted nuclear war in a time where it was very possible to actually happen at any moment. Imagine watching Jaws while you're drifting on a surf board in the middle of the ocean with a shark fin poking out from time to time.
Stylistically it was indebted to British kitchen sink realism, so it depicted everyday people in familiar situations, and it was really in-depth about things like physical suffering from fallout....
Stylistically it was indebted to British kitchen sink realism, so it depicted everyday people in familiar situations, and it was really in-depth about things like physical suffering from fallout.
The difference between Threads and most other nuclear war movies is like the difference between Saving Private Ryan and Come And See.
And yeah, it was very plausible when it came out. There's a lot about it on youtube if you want to get a sense of it.
I have no interest in using any Meta products but I do look forward to the schadenfreude as Meta turns the screws on Twitter. I was hoping Bluesky would've done it already but Jacky boy seems to...
I have no interest in using any Meta products but I do look forward to the schadenfreude as Meta turns the screws on Twitter. I was hoping Bluesky would've done it already but Jacky boy seems to be taking his sweet time in invite-only Beta. (For example I've been on the waitlist for five months and have all but given up on ever getting in)
Edit: Big thank you to the person who PMed me a Bluesky invite. It's much appreciated!
FWIW Jack wanted them to public launch much earlier, but the bsky team that wanted a slower rollout to make sure everything would be smooth enough for them to handle.
FWIW Jack wanted them to public launch much earlier, but the bsky team that wanted a slower rollout to make sure everything would be smooth enough for them to handle.
Two things stand out so far: there’s no chronological feed, and you’re forced to see posts from people you don’t follow. Both keep it from replacing twitter for me, since I use it mostly for...
Two things stand out so far: there’s no chronological feed, and you’re forced to see posts from people you don’t follow.
Both keep it from replacing twitter for me, since I use it mostly for real-time sports and news updates
If my Twitter feed (who I largely abandoned for Mastodon when muskrat started talking about buying the bird) were to migrate to Threads and they get ActivityPub, the UI of Threads won't matter at...
If my Twitter feed (who I largely abandoned for Mastodon when muskrat started talking about buying the bird) were to migrate to Threads and they get ActivityPub, the UI of Threads won't matter at all for me, I'll follow my friends from Threads and I'll get the chronological, "only who I follow", feed from Mastodon which will again include posts from my friends who never left Twitter. I can't wait for it to start picking up steam and I hope it gets popular enough to lure those users away. If they adopt the protocol, they can have the worst everything in the world and it won't change a thing for me beyond allowing me to see some old friends again.
I just dipped back into Threads after not using it for a few hours and my feed's already starting to recommend posts based on my interests from the 3 accounts I'd followed. I could see myself...
I just dipped back into Threads after not using it for a few hours and my feed's already starting to recommend posts based on my interests from the 3 accounts I'd followed. I could see myself using 3rd party apps to follow accounts on Meta's platform if it's federated to get a chronological feed.
I think this’ll do well for Meta. It’s essentially a drop-in replacement for Twitter with a decent icon and a familiar UX. I don’t love Meta, but there’s no denying their social reach. I made a...
I think this’ll do well for Meta. It’s essentially a drop-in replacement for Twitter with a decent icon and a familiar UX. I don’t love Meta, but there’s no denying their social reach. I made a burner to poke around and was surprised how many accounts migrated over in the span of hours. It’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, Twitter does to respond.
Edit:
No reverse chronological feed of only the accounts you follow is a bummer to not have at launch and a little sketchy as is delaying the ActivityPub protocol. Hashtags are also conspicuously missing, but that might be for the best.
How did you manage to make a burner? I tried this, but instantly got banned for "trying to circumvent community guidelines regarding identity". It had the option to appeal the ban which involved...
How did you manage to make a burner? I tried this, but instantly got banned for "trying to circumvent community guidelines regarding identity". It had the option to appeal the ban which involved giving my phone number and uploading a picture of myself holding a piece of paper with a code written on it. Horrifying.
Whoa, that is creepy. Sorry, I misspoke (typed?), the IG account I used was the actual “burner”. Its avatar is a dog and doesn’t feature my name or any other info which is the account I used when...
Whoa, that is creepy.
Sorry, I misspoke (typed?), the IG account I used was the actual “burner”. Its avatar is a dog and doesn’t feature my name or any other info which is the account I used when signing up for Threads, but it was created a long time ago — perhaps before those rules were in place?
One hour on: No web client, no searching for posts or hashtags, no followers tab (ONLY algorithm page) and the algorithm is dominated by all the existing instagram verified accounts that came...
One hour on:
No web client, no searching for posts or hashtags, no followers tab (ONLY algorithm page) and the algorithm is dominated by all the existing instagram verified accounts that came across so it winds up being just as inane as the twitter's blue-dominated algorithm.
Curious how Meta launches their Twitter competitor when it's taking on so much water. It looks nice for now, I'm hoping it actually follows through with Federation.
Curious how Meta launches their Twitter competitor when it's taking on so much water. It looks nice for now, I'm hoping it actually follows through with Federation.
From the official Mastodon statement, they don't seem to be worried.
Will Meta embrace-extend-extinguish the ActivityPub protocol?
There are comparisons to be made between Meta adopting ActivityPub for its new social media platform and Meta adopting XMPP for its Messenger service a decade ago. There was a time when users of Facebook and users of Google Talk were able to chat with each other and with people from self-hosted XMPP servers, before each platform was locked down into the silos we know today. What would stop that from repeating? Well, even if Threads abandoned ActivityPub down the line, where we would end up is exactly where we are now. XMPP did not exist on its own outside of nerd circles, while ActivityPub enjoys the support and brand recognition of Mastodon.
Yeah, I know they're not. But I found the Ploum article that's doing the rounds) pretty compelling. At the end of the day siloing isn't the end of the fediverse, but I think Mastodon are being...
At the end of the day siloing isn't the end of the fediverse, but I think Mastodon are being naive if they think it could not negatively affect their userbase if they have their users in federation with a leviathan for a few years, who then have to choose which part of their friend group to cut off during the "extinguish" phase.
Facebook is very big on open source, they are probably the best of the 4 tech giants when it comes to open sourcing their work. They have other things to be worried of when it comes to Meta but...
Facebook is very big on open source, they are probably the best of the 4 tech giants when it comes to open sourcing their work. They have other things to be worried of when it comes to Meta but embrace-extend-extinguish hasn’t been their MO at least not under zuckbot.
I'm not ideologically for or against it, so here's my (useless) take. The first hour or two was fun and everyone was just good-naturedly shitposting. Then brands and celebrities started popping...
I'm not ideologically for or against it, so here's my (useless) take.
The first hour or two was fun and everyone was just good-naturedly shitposting. Then brands and celebrities started popping up, and without the ability to see only people you're following, it became less fun. Lots of people got on board and the interface is fun and minimalistic, but let's see if it'll actually have staying power.
I actually kind of liked the novelty seeing all those posts from celebrities. It felt kitschy and kind of nostalgic, like the way Twitter was before the radical shift to paid, reply-boosted...
I actually kind of liked the novelty seeing all those posts from celebrities. It felt kitschy and kind of nostalgic, like the way Twitter was before the radical shift to paid, reply-boosted bluechecks under Elon. (Not that "pre-Elon Twitter" was some kind of paradise, of course.)
so I don't really know how ActivityPub works, but it has always been hard to scrape instagram and facebook and bibliogram had to shut down because they couldn't keep up with instagram's changes....
so I don't really know how ActivityPub works, but it has always been hard to scrape instagram and facebook and bibliogram had to shut down because they couldn't keep up with instagram's changes. since threads uses ActivityPub would it make it easier for alternative frontends to function ? or would their implementation be different ?
Bluesky is owned by the person who gave Twitter to musk, and they don’t seem to delete hate speech, so I won’t be joining bluesky If I didn’t already have an instagram account I wouldn’t have...
Bluesky is owned by the person who gave Twitter to musk, and they don’t seem to delete hate speech, so I won’t be joining bluesky
If I didn’t already have an instagram account I wouldn’t have joined threads
So I peeked inside. A few things stood out to me: Had to have an instagram account. I could not find a way to sign up without using an existing instagram account. The feed is not in chronological...
So I peeked inside. A few things stood out to me:
Had to have an instagram account. I could not find a way to sign up without using an existing instagram account.
The feed is not in chronological order. There's some sort of algorithm that's serving up everything.
Right now #2 makes the feed a sort of chaotic fun as everyone is peeking in and posting into the void.
They pre-populated Threads with a bunch of influencers and brands, leveraging their audience from Instagram.
There is no way to tag posts. No hashtag support. So as it stands there's no way to seek out certain conversations and topics.
It's clear that Meta has huge power here: they had a user base to immediately bring over to Threads from Instagram. We'll see how many of those users convert. The app is very sparse right now, this was clearly a quickly spun up project.
In the short term, a viable Twitter alternative creates the potential of a large and sudden exodus of users, which will hopefully scare the Twitter management out of some of the unpopular changes...
In the short term, a viable Twitter alternative creates the potential of a large and sudden exodus of users, which will hopefully scare the Twitter management out of some of the unpopular changes they've been making.
Long term, Threads is subject to the same incentives as every other for-profit social network, so it will eventually develop the same problems as Twitter, Reddit, Facebook etc. as it tries to continuously squeeze more juice out of the same orange each and every year. All you get for switching is to set back the enshittification clock a few years. In the meantime, Meta is just gonna be scraping the shit out of your personal data and selling it.
That's why I'm still supporting Mastodon even if it can never grow as large as a corporate-owned, algorithmically addictive nightmare site. Even if you don't enjoy Mastodn, consider maintaining an account, it could come in handy five years from now when Threads is going to shit in a very similar way to Twitter.
99% sure this will go the route of Metaverse. Half arsed efforts at cloning a competing product or one imposed from top without any grassroot study. As much as I want to keep the good faith but I...
99% sure this will go the route of Metaverse. Half arsed efforts at cloning a competing product or one imposed from top without any grassroot study. As much as I want to keep the good faith but I couldn't help feeling at times that companies are doing this deliberately to create pretexts for layoffs?
Has anyone found an easy way to switch accounts without having to log out and then log into the other account? Why they didn’t just add Instagram’s double tap the account button to switch is...
Has anyone found an easy way to switch accounts without having to log out and then log into the other account? Why they didn’t just add Instagram’s double tap the account button to switch is beyond me.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. Sorry, not a very informative comment but it's Meta. So much goes without saying.
right the main selling point to me seems to be "it's not the fascist dumpsterfire that twitter is, it's only as bad as meta"
I'm not itching to hop on
According to my kid who uses it, there are plenty of Nazis on Instagram. He sees them in the comments all the time.
Any website that large will have issues with moderation, its kind of inevitable. People will get banned and then make new accounts, or just learn to toe the line to not get banned. There's simply no solution to moderate websites of that scale consistently, at least not without doing something like requiring every account to be tied to a different individual person and verifying this.
oh undoubtedly, I suppose in the grand scheme "we don't like nazis but we can't catch them all" is better than "nazis deserve an equal voice to you" as a corporate philosophy
I'll avoid both though because I have standards for myself
I've seen it too. It's actually worse than what I've seen on 4chan on its bad days. (4chan's bad days)
It's interesting how they're advertising as a Instagram app, instead of a Meta or Facebook product. While I do think this more appealing to non-tech users compared to the fediverse options, I still see this going the way of Lasso.
LOL
I know tildes is for more better discussion than simply LOL so I'll add here that this is probably the most succinct summary of how I feel and I'll be paraphrasing and stealing this for my own use! Thank you.
I can't touch it even without a pole, they're not bringing it to the EU because it's a personal information collection tool that's 100% against everything the GDPR is for :D
Dunno how they're handling CCPA though, it's even more strict in some cases.
Someone I know made an account and was looking around at deletion, apparently as of now you can't delete your Threads account without deleting your Instagram which is a big red flag.
Here is Mastodon's official statement about this. I'll paste the conclusion:
In theory it's a positive thing, we want big corporations to adopt decentralized technology, but then I'm reminded of what happened with XMPP (used to be a messaging standard hangouts, facebook, etc. all followed and then abandoned) and I just see a repeat of that here.
I can see Facebook slowly starting to implement their own standards for things and forcing everyone else to follow suit if they want to be compatible. And that's not even mentioning the idea of them cutting access to the rest of the fediverse whenever they feel like it once they've absorbed most of the market.
And what if I interact with a user on threads? Does my data now belong to meta even though I'm on a totally separate instance?
I just can't have good faith in these giant corporations whose revenue model is based on monopolies and selling user data.
This is also why I have no qualms with basically every instance admin I know pre-emptively defederating from threads.
So, according to this and if it stays that way, your (non-public) data should be left alone. But there's no guarantee anywhere there won't be anything happening that changes that. I understand your concern.
I've found this article and discussion regarding this issue very interesting: https://tildes.net/~tech/16v3/how_to_kill_a_decentralised_network_such_as_the_fediverse
Seems like they hastened the launch date. I couldn't find it directly on the app store for some reason, and had to use the link on the verge article.
Looks like it's Instagram login only (although I suppose that's an arbitrary distinction anyway?). When I logged in, I was prompted to follow people I follow on instagram - it seems how that works is that if they make a threads account, I will automatically follow them.
Meta seems to have done a good job coordinated in the background many influential Twitter users to pre-emptively start making
tweetsthreads - I see Shams, the NBA news leaker/informant, CNBC, a littany of other companies, and several celebrities.It's definitely the most real threat to Twitter, because Instagram has straight up more users than Twitter by a large margin to begin with, and certainly with "normal users" (which Mastodon could never attract).
Seems interesting!
I believe you must have an Instagram account in order to use Threads. Surprise surprise.
I finally got tired of not being able to see people's Instagram links and made an account a few months ago... only to have it suspended a few weeks in for absolutely no reason despite me never posting or doing literally anything else besides look at things. They wanted me to upload a selfie to dispute it... how about NO?
Rumor is Threads was hastily cobbled together by Twitter employees who left during the mass firings. I'm guessing within a month or two it will branch off from Instagram and require a Meta account.
It's interesting that they're planning on integration with the Fediverse. I wonder how that will go. I made an account to check it out, since I already had an Instagram account. So far, pretty similar to Twitter.
I went to Zuck's "let's do this, welcome to threads" post which was supposed to have 1,000+ comments. I noticed the comments started looping after maybe like 20 or so comments? I wonder if that's a bug or if they were stress testing with thousands of duplicated comments.
I honestly hope my instance does not federate with them. I don't use Instagram, and I don't think the average Instagram user is going to provide valuable conversation. I actually really like Mastodon the way it is right now.
The pearl-clutching about Meta playing in the Fediverse and the absolutist reactions across Mastodon and Lemmy have been both embarrassing and telling. The fact of the matter is Meta and other tech giants will play in this space if it is a viable source of users and source of content for current users. If these platforms cannot be successful in the presence of Meta et al. they aren't strong enough to thrive in their absence either.
Hiding your head in the sand doesn't stop whatever you're hiding from.
That's ridiculous, as if any social platform needed Meta to thrive. Meta is an awful corporation with a history of constant abuse. Hell, even Threads is so abusive that it can't launch in Europe right now. The fear is not to have Meta users on the fediverse, the fear is that Meta could very well embrace/extend/extinguish it out of self-preservation.
They need the users and the content they generate. Pretending that Meta's userbase isn't massive and able to contribute at a scale that outright dwarfs all other instances combined is just ignoring reality.
Agree, but I didn't say that, and this isn't the same statement as "your social network can't thrive without Meta"
TBF, reddit has said the exact same about Tildes time and time again. They aren't wrong but are also wrong.
As long as we don't define "thrive", we can't properly communicate these things. I infer from your statement that "thrive" means "can become a viable competitor to the top websites", but that may not be what other Mastodon users define it as, nor even desire.
In the same way I and others "hide my head in the sand" by not interacting on Facebook/Instagram, I guess. I'm not pretending my lack of pretense is toppling a billion dollar corporation. I simply see it as tailoring my own internet experience. something I've been doing for the better part of 20 years now.
Tildes is nice. However, it is super niche and you can consume and engage with all of the fresh content on here in around an hour a day. That's not what the average user is looking for, hell it's not what the vast majority of users are looking for.
It should also be mentioned that choosing not to visit Facebook.com is quite different from harassing instance admins about anything other than a total commitment to defederate with Meta and other large tech instances.
...and it's okay for many places on the net to remain niche. Why is niche bad?
I personally do not care what the average user is looking for- if it's not what they're looking for- it's simply not for them, period, IMHO
Everything doesn't have to be a popularity competitor with everything else
The big services with the least friction, which in turn generally tend to be the ones backed by terrible businesses with awful leadership and privacy behavior, seem to always be the ones that will get critical mass- and I'm glad that smaller communities, with no intent on becoming those types of entities, are choosing to be a bulwark against them via defederation. Allow them to exist, but not pollute
Edited to add: The only reason I'm on any of the big services at all (begrudgingly) is because of critical mass (family, friends) - so I understand that - but I don't view my Mastodon instance as some kind of replacement, it's simply just a different community that I wouldn't expect or even want my regular family/friends group on- it's just not for them. I would love for there to be a privacy respecting, well run, highly moderated "big social" service, but that just does not exist at this time, and Threads will not be it. Will it be extremely popular? Maybe, but the big services I begrudgingly use- I am under no confusion about how shitty the companies are that run them, of which Meta is one of the worst
I don't think they were saying that platforms that are more niche are actually bad, just that most people aren't going to limit their social media use to that kind of experience. For better and worse, plenty of folks want to connect and have their posts and ideas be seen by lots of other people. I think that all kinds of social media, big and small, should have a place on the internet, since they all have their own unique strengths and pitfalls. Being in a cozy little Mastodon instance is nice, but it can feel painfully suburban sometimes, and I go to the public square of Twitter (or maybe Threads now?) if I want to see a more active/firehose-like stream of posts. Nowhere is going to be free of toxicity, so at the end of the day, social media won't save us and we need real-life connections too.
Sure, but I was never "the average user" to begin with. Be it in my gamefaqs days arguing about the best RPG or funding some much niche social media sites the mass populace have no idea exists today.
Fortunately, it's not about appealing to everyone but finding enough of a specific audience. Much harder but feels really good when it does happen.
Ehh, Id just silently quit the instance if it came down to it. No point negotiating unless the admins specifically reach out to the audience, which im guessing they did.
I do not condone harassment in any case. If you feel so strongly, take advantage of the freedom of federation and find an instance that you're comfortable with. If that means you leaving alone and needing to rebuild, that's simply a consequence of your action.
You say that like every person in the interwebs is always on some sort of social media.
If I can come into tildes 2-3 times a week, and absorb all the "New" I'm perfectly fine with that.
I think most "People on the internet" are too.
That's fine if you feel that way. If you think that most people feel that way you're either obtuse or purposefully ignorant.
It would be interesting to see an actual study of social media use.
As with all things, I'm guessing the "Power users" skew the numbers.
...but how do you measure success? I think there are many ways from the perspective of social media sites.
One is "this is a website where everyone that you want to communicate with has an account", which is a desirable goal for many. This is also (necessarily) the measure of success for for-profit sites, since they need as many people to be using it as possible.
But another, also desirable goal is "this is a website where people have nice conversations and interactions, and don't regret the time they spend here". This is the goal that Mastodon (and Tildes!) is going for, and it isn't affected by the relative popularity of other sites. However, federating with instances which don't intend to properly moderate content does threaten that goal, which is why some Mastodon instances are choosing not to.
Mastodon and Lemmy are essentially, at present time, completely unmoderated. You'll get aggressively scolded for not using as many trigger warnings as possible and borderline harassed for not including alt text in an image post on Mastodon, but that's it. The closest that Lemmy has come to moderation is the larger instances finally defederating from exploding heads, and it's hard to call a decision that obvious "active moderation."
Meta and others will bring a professionalism and legal compliance to moderation in the Fediverse that is completely absent right now. It's far from perfect, but much better than the status quo. And if instances want the status quo, don't federate -- it's that easy. But, don't be surprised when the instances with billions of users creating content on federated instances absolutely eat your lunch and user numbers dwindle to zero.
Well, why not just defederate from meta, for your specific account only? Both mastodon and afaik also kbin offer client side defederation. Why do you want your instance to do it for everyone?
With something that big, if you don't defederate the whole instance you won't escape it. Also this is just kinda how Mastodon rolls. It'll be alarming to free speech absolutists but this is by far the norm. I've seen instances get muted for themselves not defederating from an instance hosting a single well-known and prolific fascist, and the decision was widely approved of by the community. Again, that'll be alien and nigh-dystopian to a free speech absolutist, but it's the norm there to not give any breathing room to threats. They take the "if you have one nazi at a dinner table..." saying quite seriously.
Yes, the instance I am on pulls no punches and defederates from many other instances that have what they consider inadequate moderation. They also defederate from any instance that has strong capitalist/corporate, pro-cop sentiment, or a perceived danger of surveillance.
I love that some instances of Mastodon are like that- and most of the users in these smaller communities have no desire to switch to something like Threads- so Meta / "Big Social" are not a seen as a threat to them in terms of longevity/membership- only a threat in terms of what those big networks represent
When I still looked at Instagram a lot, almost all the posts with more than ten comments would loop like you mentioned.
I love how it's called Threads.
Threads is one of the most horrifyingly dystopian sci fi films ever made.
Ya, but its commonly used term in other contexts.
Sure, it's only when I see it with a capital T that I even think of that film.
I know they mean threads of internet conversation etc, it's just funny to me because Threads is notoriously bleak.
Makes me think of the antagonist from The Dragonriders of Pern. Which I guess makes Mastodon the planet Pern, and instance admins riders of genetically engineered dragons whose sole job is to destroy Threads before they can get a foothold on Pern.
Have you read that series recently? I'm curious to know if it's as good as I remember.
I last read it when I was in middle school I think, and now all I can remember about it was that it was a far future alt world fantasy. I think at one point someone teleported 200 years back in time and did a blood transfusion with a carnivorous vine? Should I put it in my backlog?
I read a combination of the first three books recently (Dragonflight, Dragonquest, and The White Dragon). I also hadn't read any of the books since middle school. Honestly, I was pretty impressed -- the universe is well thought out, there are a lot of strong characters of each gender, and the writing style is cleaner than any modern YA I've read. In terms of middle school reading, it's not quite Daniel Pinkwater, but it is some solid fun sci fi/fantasy! A good read for a day at the beach, where you might not need to pay full attention but still want something fun to imagine.
That's good to hear! I'll have to dredge up a copy somewhere.
Threads is also the name of a now-defunct app by Facebook that was essentially Instagram chat without Instagram.
I read the wiki on it. Nuclear bomb goes off, people suffer, there's a baby at the end, that one? Sort of like reverse Children Of Men? What made it so effectively horrifying for you?
I'm not the person you're asking, but Threads depicted nuclear war in a time where it was very possible to actually happen at any moment. Imagine watching Jaws while you're drifting on a surf board in the middle of the ocean with a shark fin poking out from time to time.
Stylistically it was indebted to British kitchen sink realism, so it depicted everyday people in familiar situations, and it was really in-depth about things like physical suffering from fallout.
The difference between Threads and most other nuclear war movies is like the difference between Saving Private Ryan and Come And See.
And yeah, it was very plausible when it came out. There's a lot about it on youtube if you want to get a sense of it.
Yeah, no thanks. The sheer amount of data that this thing requests on iOS is absolutely abhorrent.
I have no interest in using any Meta products but I do look forward to the schadenfreude as Meta turns the screws on Twitter. I was hoping Bluesky would've done it already but Jacky boy seems to be taking his sweet time in invite-only Beta. (For example I've been on the waitlist for five months and have all but given up on ever getting in)
Edit: Big thank you to the person who PMed me a Bluesky invite. It's much appreciated!
FWIW Jack wanted them to public launch much earlier, but the bsky team that wanted a slower rollout to make sure everything would be smooth enough for them to handle.
You might want to ask Gavin for an invite. He’s running a podcast on Twitter’s situation and is frequently mentioning BlueSky invites.
Two things stand out so far: there’s no chronological feed, and you’re forced to see posts from people you don’t follow.
Both keep it from replacing twitter for me, since I use it mostly for real-time sports and news updates
If my Twitter feed (who I largely abandoned for Mastodon when muskrat started talking about buying the bird) were to migrate to Threads and they get ActivityPub, the UI of Threads won't matter at all for me, I'll follow my friends from Threads and I'll get the chronological, "only who I follow", feed from Mastodon which will again include posts from my friends who never left Twitter. I can't wait for it to start picking up steam and I hope it gets popular enough to lure those users away. If they adopt the protocol, they can have the worst everything in the world and it won't change a thing for me beyond allowing me to see some old friends again.
I just dipped back into Threads after not using it for a few hours and my feed's already starting to recommend posts based on my interests from the 3 accounts I'd followed. I could see myself using 3rd party apps to follow accounts on Meta's platform if it's federated to get a chronological feed.
Since this is for now USA only, I’ll be grabbing a bucket of popcorn and watch from the sideline until the GDPR stuff is sorted out.
I think this’ll do well for Meta. It’s essentially a drop-in replacement for Twitter with a decent icon and a familiar UX. I don’t love Meta, but there’s no denying their social reach. I made a burner to poke around and was surprised how many accounts migrated over in the span of hours. It’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, Twitter does to respond.
Edit:
No reverse chronological feed of only the accounts you follow is a bummer to not have at launch and a little sketchy as is delaying the ActivityPub protocol. Hashtags are also conspicuously missing, but that might be for the best.
How did you manage to make a burner? I tried this, but instantly got banned for "trying to circumvent community guidelines regarding identity". It had the option to appeal the ban which involved giving my phone number and uploading a picture of myself holding a piece of paper with a code written on it. Horrifying.
Whoa, that is creepy.
Sorry, I misspoke (typed?), the IG account I used was the actual “burner”. Its avatar is a dog and doesn’t feature my name or any other info which is the account I used when signing up for Threads, but it was created a long time ago — perhaps before those rules were in place?
One hour on:
No web client, no searching for posts or hashtags, no followers tab (ONLY algorithm page) and the algorithm is dominated by all the existing instagram verified accounts that came across so it winds up being just as inane as the twitter's blue-dominated algorithm.
I'm going back to twitter with BlueBlocker.
Curious how Meta launches their Twitter competitor when it's taking on so much water. It looks nice for now, I'm hoping it actually follows through with Federation.
I'm hoping it doesn't. I don't want ActivityPub to fall victim to the Embrace-Extend-Extinguish policy.
From the official Mastodon statement, they don't seem to be worried.
Yeah, I know they're not. But I found the Ploum article that's doing the rounds) pretty compelling.
At the end of the day siloing isn't the end of the fediverse, but I think Mastodon are being naive if they think it could not negatively affect their userbase if they have their users in federation with a leviathan for a few years, who then have to choose which part of their friend group to cut off during the "extinguish" phase.
Facebook is very big on open source, they are probably the best of the 4 tech giants when it comes to open sourcing their work. They have other things to be worried of when it comes to Meta but embrace-extend-extinguish hasn’t been their MO at least not under zuckbot.
I'm not ideologically for or against it, so here's my (useless) take.
The first hour or two was fun and everyone was just good-naturedly shitposting. Then brands and celebrities started popping up, and without the ability to see only people you're following, it became less fun. Lots of people got on board and the interface is fun and minimalistic, but let's see if it'll actually have staying power.
I actually kind of liked the novelty seeing all those posts from celebrities. It felt kitschy and kind of nostalgic, like the way Twitter was before the radical shift to paid, reply-boosted bluechecks under Elon. (Not that "pre-Elon Twitter" was some kind of paradise, of course.)
Can't browse it anonymously from the web? Then I am as interested in this as I am Twitter.
so I don't really know how ActivityPub works, but it has always been hard to scrape instagram and facebook and bibliogram had to shut down because they couldn't keep up with instagram's changes. since threads uses ActivityPub would it make it easier for alternative frontends to function ? or would their implementation be different ?
I'll probably just hold out for bluesky, thanks. Anything Meta is a hard pass from me.
Bluesky is owned by the person who gave Twitter to musk, and they don’t seem to delete hate speech, so I won’t be joining bluesky
If I didn’t already have an instagram account I wouldn’t have joined threads
Threads is owned by Mark Zuckerberg.
Bluesky is owned by Jay Graber.
I mixed them up, didn't even realize until now
Didn't Dorsey leave well before Musk bought Twitter?
So I peeked inside. A few things stood out to me:
It's clear that Meta has huge power here: they had a user base to immediately bring over to Threads from Instagram. We'll see how many of those users convert. The app is very sparse right now, this was clearly a quickly spun up project.
In the short term, a viable Twitter alternative creates the potential of a large and sudden exodus of users, which will hopefully scare the Twitter management out of some of the unpopular changes they've been making.
Long term, Threads is subject to the same incentives as every other for-profit social network, so it will eventually develop the same problems as Twitter, Reddit, Facebook etc. as it tries to continuously squeeze more juice out of the same orange each and every year. All you get for switching is to set back the enshittification clock a few years. In the meantime, Meta is just gonna be scraping the shit out of your personal data and selling it.
That's why I'm still supporting Mastodon even if it can never grow as large as a corporate-owned, algorithmically addictive nightmare site. Even if you don't enjoy Mastodn, consider maintaining an account, it could come in handy five years from now when Threads is going to shit in a very similar way to Twitter.
99% sure this will go the route of Metaverse. Half arsed efforts at cloning a competing product or one imposed from top without any grassroot study. As much as I want to keep the good faith but I couldn't help feeling at times that companies are doing this deliberately to create pretexts for layoffs?
I don't know. Musk seems pretty determined to drive as many sane minded people off the platform and openly manipulate what he wants people to see.
Has anyone found an easy way to switch accounts without having to log out and then log into the other account? Why they didn’t just add Instagram’s double tap the account button to switch is beyond me.
Gross