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47 votes
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The Witch Trials of JK Rowling
15 votes -
What is a fun or interesting fact about where you live?
Partly posting this because I love those little nuggets of local lore, and partly so I can share this local fact that I just discovered. My city's cathedral has this amazing double-bowl copper...
Partly posting this because I love those little nuggets of local lore, and partly so I can share this local fact that I just discovered.
My city's cathedral has this amazing double-bowl copper font (different angle here) which I had assumed was ancient - the cathedral is almost 1000 years old - but it turns out that until 1994 these bowls were being used at a local chocolate factory to make caramel to go inside Rolos and was gifted to the church when the factory closed.
15 votes -
Film: The reason some of the past was in HD
13 votes -
Texas board votes to eliminate Helen Keller and Hillary Clinton from history curriculum
18 votes -
How Monty Python's Life of Brian moved past culture wars and censorship to become a beloved hit
31 votes -
The fraying of the US Global Currency Reserve System
11 votes -
The Rise and Demise of RSS
35 votes -
Sega Dreamcast at twenty: The futuristic games console that came too soon
28 votes -
The identifying terms we use (and the political history behind them)
Today's political climate has all sorts of terms being thrown around with varying meanings and history behind them. There are Liberals (political ideology for FREEDUM), and Liberals (foreign...
Today's political climate has all sorts of terms being thrown around with varying meanings and history behind them. There are Liberals (political ideology for FREEDUM), and Liberals (foreign policy), and Liberals (economic policy), and Liberals ("conservatives"), and Liberals ("centrist, anti-absolute monarchists"), and Liberals ("democrats"), and Liberals (some other field that annoys the shit out of me). There are Progressives, and Conservatives, Nationalists, Socialists, Social Democrats, unreconstructed Monarchists, Reconstructed Monarchists, Anarchists, and I'm sure some other political identity that I've missed.
So, given the rather long list of ways to identify politically, and the just about as long history for those ways to identify politically, I thought we should have a discussion focused exclusively on the political history of the terms we used.
So, the questions:
1. What terms do you commonly use to describe yourself and others in your political environment? 2. What is the relevant history that informs the way you use common political terms to describe yourself and others? 3. Got any links, movies, books, etc., that delve into that history?
This has the potential to get hairy because of how broad it is, so I'm going to try to remind people of some best practices that I use when engaging in meaningful discussion:
- Understand before criticizing. - Be able to frame someone's view in a way that they can agree with themselves before critiquing their view. Questions are your friend, but make sure the questions are focused on better understanding someone's view, not on biasing reactions to a view.
- Assume good faith. - Calling people "trolls" makes me very angry. Don't do it. For any reason. To anyone. If your case is so bulletproof that you'd be willing to call someone out for it here, take it to @Deimos instead. I don't want to read it here.
- I Could Be Wrong - There is nothing wrong with having confidence in your view, but there should be some part of you that recognizes you can be wrong about whatever claim you make. Nothing is 100%. Absolutely Only Sith Deal In Absolutes, etc.
11 votes -
I found Frank Herbert’s Dune script. It’s hard to imagine a weirder film version of Dune than the one David Lynch released in 1984, but Frank Herbert found a way. Dune: Part Two is better.
32 votes -
Nickelodeon Studios | Abandoned
16 votes -
California man has gone viral for making and eating a historical or weird sandwich on camera every day
18 votes -
How Lisp became god's own programming language (2018)
29 votes -
When reading historical books, how do you keep track of timelines?
I've recently become interested in exploring history. However, though I am usually quick to read and process large amounts of information in other genres, I find myself struggling with the dates...
I've recently become interested in exploring history. However, though I am usually quick to read and process large amounts of information in other genres, I find myself struggling with the dates in history books. For example, here's a excerpt from the book I'm currently reading [1]:
During this period, tsarist policy was contradictory along its Western borders. In Finland, a Parliament was convened in 1863 for the first time in fifty-four years. In 1860, its own currency, the Finnish markka, was introduced, initially tied to the Russion rouble before being tied to the value of silver from 1865, which enabled the Duchy to trade more easily with the West. By 1906, Parliament had passed 400 separate pieces of legislation, and by 1883, Finnish had equal status as a language to Russian.
It takes me surprisingly long to process this; my mind struggles to put together the timeline and most relevant facts. This style is used throughout the whole book and others like it, where multiple dates (and names or facts) are mentioned in a short piece of text, often in seemingly random order. This makes it difficult for me to truly get something out the book -- either I don't remember the information well afterwards or I can't relax while reading because I'm constantly puzzling it together.
For people more familiar with historical works: are there any tricks to this? Does it perhaps get easier in time, when you become more familiar with the genre (similar to keeping track of the characters in fantasy books like Game of Thrones)? Or do some people have a natural affinity for dates, same as others have a mind for numbers or for languages? Looking forward to hearing your opinions and experiences.
[1] N. Taylor, "Estonia, A Modern History", 2nd edition, C. Hurst & Co, 2020.
Update: This was my first post here, and I’m loving the thoughtful replies. Here’s a summary of the tips so far:
- Combining specific dates into a higher level time periods, e.g. start/middle/late century.
- Using historical dates with a personal meaning as anchors to keep an overview of the time period.
- Paying special attention to the first line of each paragraph, the first section of each chapter, and the first chapter of each book, which should be a summary of the following paragraph, chapter, and book, respectively.
- Writing or drawing your own timeline of events, outside of the book.
- Adding context information to your own timeline, based on understanding why each event occurred in that time and that way.
17 votes -
Evolution of the scrollbar
23 votes -
The REAL reason ships go missing in the Bermuda Triangle!!!
9 votes -
The overwhelmingly White image of beer culture erases a much longer, far-reaching narrative of Black brewing
20 votes -
Flickr will soon start deleting photos — and massive chunks of internet history
27 votes -
Choose Your Own Adventure - 45 years ago, one kids book series taught a generation how to make bad decisions
25 votes -
World’s Strongest Man lives the Sumo wrestler lifestyle for 72 hours | Strength Unknown Japan
13 votes -
The most important year in the history of science fiction is 1973, because that’s when science fiction ended
8 votes -
Is alternate history science fiction?
8 votes -
YouTubers are upscaling the past to 4K. Historians want them to stop
9 votes -
What would America look like if it lost WWIII?
9 votes -
What the Prisoner's Dilemma reveals about life, the Universe, and everything
32 votes -
Sewing machines are mechanical marvels – here’s how they work
43 votes -
Why 'The Hobbit' is still underappreciated, eighty-six years later: A Culture Re-View
16 votes -
Wendover Productions on Nebula
28 votes -
Why sitcoms stopped using laugh tracks - Short history of the laff box
8 votes -
In your opinion, what is the most powerful speech in history?
Despite not even being his most famous speech, I think that Martin Luther King's final speech "I've Have Been to the Mountaintop" is the most amazing example of public speaking ever. The grand...
Despite not even being his most famous speech, I think that Martin Luther King's final speech "I've Have Been to the Mountaintop" is the most amazing example of public speaking ever.
The grand finale of Dr. King's great legacy. A speech given by a man who knew that his days were numbered. A speech given by a man who knew he would not live to see his dream come to fruition. Dr. King discusses the adversity that the Civil Rights movement had already faced and how these challenges were overcome through non violent methods. He challenges America and it's citizens to live up to the ideals of the country.
Somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere I read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere I read of the freedom of press. Somewhere I read that the greatness of America is the right to protest for rights. And so just as I said, we aren't going to let dogs or water hoses turn us around. We aren't going to let any injunction turn us around. We are going on.
The speech ends with Dr. King foreshadowing the possibility of his death, an event which would occur the very next day when MLK was assassinated at his motel in Memphis, Tennessee.
Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it really doesn't matter with me now, because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live – a long life; longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land. So I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.
So that's my vote. What do you view as the greatest speech in history and why?
24 votes -
Rediscovering the small web
23 votes -
How do you pronounce "NES"? Nintendo throws a wrench in the debate
15 votes -
Zilog discontinues production of original Z80 processor after 48 years
28 votes -
The Museum of Science and Industry abruptly closed for a day last week to allow it to move “military artifacts from archival storage”
26 votes -
Fajitas, a Mexican dish that was really born in Texas
16 votes -
A Chorus Line: The history behind the line
12 votes -
Shepherd's Pie recipes over time
At the moment some people will say that Shepherd's Pie and Cottage Pie are the same thing (mince meat, sometimes vegetables, covered with potato mash and oven baked), and other people will say...
At the moment some people will say that Shepherd's Pie and Cottage Pie are the same thing (mince meat, sometimes vegetables, covered with potato mash and oven baked), and other people will say that Shepherd's Pie must be minced lamb or minced mutton and Cottage Pie must be minced beef. I don't care, call it what you want. But I was interested about what people said in the past, so here are some old recipes I found in the Internet Archive.
One of the problems I'm having is that some books use "shepherd's pie" and some use "shepherd pie" and the OCR of older books is not great so searching for the correct terms doesn't always return the books, because the OCR is saying something like "Shepherd He" instead. I'll be poking around a it more on Sunday and adding a bit more as I find them.
Lots of these recipes are submitted to news papers and magazines by readers.
1850 - 1899
Rural New Yorker
1850Edit: sorry, it's 1916https://archive.org/details/ruralnewyorker75/page/986/mode/2up?q=%22shepherd+pie%22
"Shepherd Pie. — The left-over meat should be sliced instead of chopped for this recipe. Butter a baking dish and cover the bottom with hot mashed potatoes. Pour on the gravy and sliced meat, cover with more mashed potatoes. Pile the potatoes on lightly and leave the top uneven. Dot with butter and place in hot oven for 10 minutes."
Nor'west Farmer
1882EDIT, sorry, this is 1915 (I was looking at the IA date, not the date printed on the page)https://archive.org/details/norwestfarmer3419unse/page/28/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
mentions that scraps of left over meat can be made into shepherd pie
La cuisine anglaise et la pâtisserie : traité de l'alimentation en Angleterre au point de vue pratique, théorique, anecdotique et descriptif 1894
https://archive.org/details/lacuisineanglai00suzagoog/page/n108/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
I don't speak French but I'm pretty sure they're asking for beef cuts here.
Cookery by Amy G Richards. 1895
https://archive.org/details/cihm_12438/page/n127/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
The recipe says "1 lb cold meat - 1/2 gill gravy - 6 large potatoes boiled and mashed - pepper and salt - 1 tablespoon milk - 1 oz butter. Cut the meat into small pieces, sprinkle it with pepper and salt, put it into a pudding dish, pour the gravy over. Add milk, butter, pepper and salt to potatoes, cover the meat with them, smooth with a knife and mark over with a fork, or the potatoes may be put through a forcing tube. Bake three quarters of an hour. Serve hot."
1900 - 1920
The complete Indian housekeeper & cook : giving the duties of mistress and servants, the general management of the house, and practical recipes for cooking in all its branches (Caution, lots of colonialism) 1909
https://archive.org/details/b21528640/page/278/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
The book mentions Shepherd's Pie: "This is a form of potato pie made with mince, or it may be made with raw collops, or raw meat minced fine and seasoned with pepper and salt." (A collop is a slice of meat.)
The recipe for potato pie appears a page or so earlier: The recipe says "Potato Pie is seldom seen in India. Mash a sufficiency of potatoes thoroughly with milk, pepper, and salt. Make a good thin gravy, and use this to cover thin slices of mutton sufficient to half fill a pie-dish. Pile your mashed potatoes over, trim neatly, and score with a fork. Push into the oven, and serve very hot." (interesting to me that the scoring the potato with a fork appears so early)
Magnet cream separator cook book 1910
https://archive.org/details/cihm_78529/page/n17/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
The recipe says "Shepherd Pie - put cooked meat through chopper, season with salt, pepper, and onion juice, moisten with gravy, mash potatoes, add a beaten egg, melted butter (size of an egg), place this on meat, dot with pieces of butter and bake until thoroughly hot and nicely brown on top. A good dish for leftovers".
Onion juice, or thinly sliced onion, become more common in the early 2th century.
The Cook County cook book 1912
https://archive.org/details/cookcountycookbo00asso/page/372/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
"SHEPHERD PIE.— Spread over a small platter, thoroughly buttered, warm mashed potatoes, mixed with enough milk to make it a little soft, and set in the oven to brown. When stiffened enough, and as brown as pie crust, pour over it minced cold mutton, warmed in a little thickened gravy. Is a nice breakfast dish. —-Mrs. J. R. Bogen, 2722 S. Dearborn St., Chicago, 111."
I find it interesting that people's names and addresses are published. This recipe specifies mutton (probably cold leftover mutton). I find it interesting that she suggests it's a nice breakfast dish, and deconstructs the formula by putting the browned mash under the meat.
And here's a picture of South Dearborn Street in 1905. https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/barnes-crosby-fl-1900/south-dearborn-street-chicago-illinois-usa-c-1905-b-w-photo/black-and-white-photograph/asset/6354687
The same book has a recipe for Cottage Pie on the same page. Here's a cut 'n' paste. "COTTAGE PIE. — Chop cold roast 'beef or veal fine. To each 2 cups of meat add 1 teaspoon onion juice, 1 teaspoon fine-cut parsley or 1 tablespoon chopped celery, 1 tablespoon chopped green peppers, if liked, 1 teaspoon salt, and 1/2 cup gravy stock or boiling water. Mix all together, pack in a buttered dish, cover with a layer of hot, very soft mashed potatoes, about 1 inch thick. Brush the top with milk or wthite of t^^. Bake in a hot oven until the potato is well browned. — Mrs. M. Evans, 2019 S. Clark St., Chicago, 111."
To me this reinforces the point that shepherd's pie and cottage pie were both ways to use up meat leftovers, and while some people were making a distinction between lamb and other meats lots of people weren't.
Recipes: Proved and Approved 1913
https://archive.org/details/recipesprovedapp00unse/page/30/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
"Mince fine, cold meat of any kind and two small onions, season with pepper and salt. Place in an ordinary pudding dish, pour over all some gravy. Boil six large potatoes, mash, and add one beaten egg, a little salt and a tablespoon of butter, beat well, then spread over top of meat and place in hot oven to brown."
This adds an egg to the mash, and uses more onion than we've seen so far.
Low cost recipes by Harbison, Edith Gwendolyn, comp 1914
https://archive.org/details/cu31924003573932/page/n49/mode/2up?q=shep
"Chop some cold cooked mutton quite fine. Measure and for each pint add salt and pepper to taste, 1/2 teaspoonful of onion juice, a dash of curry powder and 1/2 pint of brown sauce. Mix and spread in a greased dish. Cover with a thick layer of hot mashed potato, dabbling the top with a little beaten egg yolk. Brown in a quick oven."
The meat is quite specific: cold, cooked, mutton. I'm not quite sure what 1/2 teaspoon of onion juice is going to achieve here, it doesn't sound like enough to do anything.
* Cook book 365, no. 2* by Pechin, Mary Shelley 1915
https://archive.org/details/cookbook365no200pech/page/62/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
"Cover the bottom of a well greased baking dish, with mashed potatoes, if the potatoes seem too stiff, add a little milk, then fill in the dish with beef cut into small pieces, add a little onion juice and the gravy left from roast, or some hot water seasoned with salt and pepper, and a little melted butter, cover the dish with a layer of mashed potato sprinkled over with bits of butter, place in hot oven and just reheat the meat and potatoes. Serve hot with some pickles."
More onion juice, and also this covers the bottom and top of the dish with mash.
The Kitchen Encyclopaedia 1916
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.148252/page/n345/mode/2up?q=shepherd
"This is made in the same way as Mutton and Potato Pie (p. 333), but with less onions — about 1 tablespoon chopped onion. The surface is either roughened with a fork or smoothed down with the blade of a knife, brushed over with yolk of egg and the whole baked in a moderate oven till browned"
Here's the recipe for Mutton and Potato Pie
"Line a pie-dish with alternate layers of sliced parboiled potatoes, sliced blanched onions, and small thin slices of cooked mutton. Season with salt and pepper, moisten with stock, cover with a greased paper and bake for 1 hour in a moderate oven. Remove the paper 15 minutes before serving, to brown the potatoes."
Make a little meat, go a long way: Use savoury stews and meat pies (with Italian translation (US Department of Agriculture) 1917
https://archive.org/details/CAT31328029005/page/n3/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
"This is the name of a meat pie with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven".
Here's the recipe for Meat Pie.
"MEAT PIES Another good way to use a little meat. Have you ever used rice, cornmeal mush, or hominy for a crust? This is less work than a pastry crust and saves wheat.
4 cups cooked corn meal, rice or hominy
1/8 teaspoon pepper
1 onion
1 teaspoon of fat
2 cups tomato
1 pound raw meat or left-over meat cut up small
1/2 teaspoon of saltMelt the fat, add the sliced onion, and, if raw meat is used, add it and stir until the red color disappears. Add the tomato and seasoning. If cooked meat is used, add it with the tomato and seasoning, after the onion is browned, and heat through. Grease a baking dish, put in a layer of cereal, add the meat and gravy, and cover with the cereal dotted with fat. Bake half an hour."
And then just because, here's a recipe that I'm not going to comment on just to show how far some recipes deviate from the lamb / mutton mince plus mash formula:
Northfield Press 1930
Mackeral Shepherd Pie
https://archive.org/details/1930-05-30_Northfield-Press/page/n5/mode/2up?q=shepherd+pie
"Shepherd Pie with its fluffy topping of mashed potatoes is well-known everywhere, and when fish takes the place of meat in the pie its popularity grows apace. To make Mackerel Shepherd Pie drain an 8 ounce can of diced carrots and add to half a cup of canned peas. Stir gently into two cups of thick white sauce. Flake the fish from a one-pound can of mackerel and fork very carefully into the sauce so that it remains in fairly large pieces. Pour into a buttered baking dish and pile fluffy, well-seasoned mashed potatoes on top. Brush with melted butter and bake in moderate oven until very hot and the potatoes are a golden brown."
37 votes -
Feeding a Greek Hoplite - Ancient rations
21 votes -
The ‘Men’s Liberation’ movement time forgot: Nowadays, the Men’s Rights movement runs the gamut from incels to red pillers, but in the 1970s, men's libbers looked something like… feminists?
11 votes -
HBO Max temporarily removes Gone with the Wind because of ‘racist depictions’
9 votes -
The not-com bubble is popping—The unicorn massacre unfolding today is exactly the opposite of what happened in 2000
22 votes -
'The perfect combination of art and science': Mourning the end of paper maps
18 votes -
How we lost our ambitions for the tech-enabled home
16 votes -
Why the short-lived Calvin and Hobbes is still one of the most beloved and influential comic strips
35 votes -
There used to be a people’s bank at the US Post Office
37 votes -
Recommended books on African American history for non-Americans
Hi all. As the title says, I'm looking for recommendations on books about African American history. I'm Irish and I know the basics about the civil rights movement and some other bits through...
Hi all. As the title says, I'm looking for recommendations on books about African American history. I'm Irish and I know the basics about the civil rights movement and some other bits through documentaries like 13th . Outside of that I've realized that my understanding of what African Americans have been though over the last couple of hundred years is pretty piss poor. I'd really like to educate myself a bit more, so any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
22 votes -
Chuck E Cheese's grew into an enormous, world wide chain, but has since suffered two bankruptcies, fierce competition, and a decline in popularity. Let's explore its fascinating and turbulent history.
29 votes -
A brief history of the concept album
8 votes -
What Game of Thrones got wrong about firebombing
11 votes