Previous topic - https://tildes.net/~comp/1jsx/my_even_smaller_keyboard_upgrade

I'm making this a new topic because this keyboard once again got me to think about a couple of interesting things in regards to both having a smaller keyboard and how to actually make that work. Plus while niche as hell I'd like to contribute some sort of topic to tildes every now and then. For this one i'll be rambling about some of the reasons I've stuck with these things, and the sorts of design concepts it's forced me to think about and problems I ran into (like where the hell the shift key is).

1. Power users and the Nav cluster -

The nav cluster is the Home/End/PgUp/PgDwn/Delete/Insert section and maybe the arrow keys below it on a standard fullsize keyboard. These keys are SUPER useful for text and other sorts of navigation, to the point that it seems most "power user" systems(IDE's or even things like vim, or vimum for browsers) just remap the functionality to somewhere that can be easily reached.

In fact moving the nav cluster and numpad to be somewhere easier to access, so i wasn't constantly moving my hand back and forth, was one of the main reasons I started looking into custom keymaps and eventually smaller keyboards. Being able to trivially hit Home/End without lifting my hands is just so much nicer.

I mention all this to show you the kind of thinking that originally went into me going down this rabbit hole.
In essence:
I wanted to type/navigate faster, oh you can use these keys to be faster, but wait, i'm only a little bit faster and it's MUCH more annoying because I constantly have to move my right hand back and forth, how do I stop that?

Thus i'm always somewhat surprised at how vehemently people can get about remapping keys. Having Up/Down/Left/Right on I/K/J/L with Home/End/PgUp/PgDwn on U/O/Y/H is super intuitive(right handed WASD, with home/end/pgup/pgdwn in line with their corresponding movement) and makes flying around the screen so much easier, and can also open up keybindings that were otherwise used with just porting all this functionality to keys you can easily hit.

2. Chords, and the first major problem -

I'm sure there's a more technical definition but for the purposes of this topic chords are anytime you're hitting one or more keys at once. Shift + a is a chord for A. Ctrl+Shift+Esc is a chord for opening the task manager on windows.

One of the things you don't instantly think about when you get into smaller boards is what chords are popular, and how adding layers to your workflow will affect them. You really want your modifier keys to be accessible at all times, and in a way that makes sense. I don't have a problem that since my Esc key is not on the base layer, the Ctrl+Shift+Esc becomes Ctrl+Shift+Space+Tab for me. To break that down, Ctrl+Shift are on all layers, Space, when held, is the modifier to go to one of my other layers, and on that layer tab becomes esc.

In short, I've added one extra key to the chord, and it doesn't bug me.

What DID bug me, was that with this smaller keyboard, I no longer had room on the left side to put all of those modifier keys. You'll notice that the chord can be easily hit with your left hand alone, and with my previous map, I had shift on the right side. So now I need two hands to hit this chord instead of one. Oh well, right? It's just one chord and I need to use both hands...., whatever?

3. Oh yeah, the mouse......oh shit -
While I do think that more software should be written to allow mostly keyboard interaction, the mouse still serves a useful purpose in my ideal world. Being right handed, I use my right hand for the mouse. Sure I have some mouse functionality bound on one of my layers, but that's not going to replace the speed and precision of the mouse.

And that brings me to Win+Shift+S on windows for taking screenshots. Or more precisely, for selecting an area to take this screenshot....using the mouse.

First off, if you didn't know about this chord and you're on windows, please use it, it's fantastic for those quick "no i mean this" moments where you're trying to send someone a picture of a problem.

Second, this chord SUCKED on my new keyboard layout. On any of my previous keyboards including a normal one, I could hit this chord with just my left hand alone, while I moved my right hand to the mouse to quickly select the area I wanted and then edit it (often drawing red lines around the buttons I needed someone to click on...again....as mentioned in the documentation......).

My new layout had shift on my right hand, and oh dear god did I quickly realize how many other little workflows suck when you need to use both hands to hit the chord and THEN lift up and move it over to the mouse. Most importantly, multiple line/file selection, now required me to move my right hand to the mouse, and my left hand to the right keyboard, so I could hold shift and select things.

Or in overly dramatic terms, lo i had flown too close to the sun and was falling!

4. Wandering in the dark -

For those that for some reason don't have the 5x3 Chiri CE physical layout memorized, here it is (bottom one).

First try:
Move shift to the top button of the left thumb cluster. This was currently tab, but clearly I needed shift on my left hand more. Tab cold go on the right middle, where shift had been, and shift can go where tab was. Problem solved.

No good. That key is often hit with my index finger instead of my thumb, making something like shift+t/g/b super annoying. Hitting that key with your thumb actually requires a shifting of your hands position, and thus feels unnatural.

Worse, the key below it is my space/layer button, so something like shift+ctrl+left, to select previous words(left in this case being space + j), was super uncomfortable to hit. Just moving my thumb up to hit both keys at once did not feel good as I couldn't properly apply pressure and it just felt weird, but I wouldn't be shocked if some people out there are comfortable with that.

Second try:
Ok, we'll just move one of the other 3 thumb keys on the left to the right and put shift there, probably the win key.

No good. Ctrl and Win (or gui/super/meta/whatever) are just as important as shift. That small cluster being close to each other on normal keyboards, so they're left hand control only, means that almost ALL programs assume as much and have built their default hotkeys around it.

Windows window movement and terminal navigation being two of the bigger ones that affected me. Further this still wouldn't solve my win+shift+S screenshot issue, as now i'm just moving the windows key over there. There's no way in hell i'm putting ctrl on the right side because that's also constantly used in assuming its on the left side for various hotkeys, shortcuts, and other behaviors.

Third try:
It was at this point I was entertaining finally looking into homerow modifiers and setting up tap/double tap modifiers instead of hold. I'm still skeptical of how useful any of that is (but being open minded because of course I was skeptical of all of this and now I preach it), and realllly didn't want to go down that road for all sorts of little workflow reasons I was worried it'd collide with.

5. The solution. Pinkies and two shifts -

This stumped for for about two days after I'd decided I just couldn't live with right shift (there were plenty of other awkward workflow things due to having the number layer key be the leftmost thumb on the right pad). I'd really been trying to practice getting used to hitting both thumb keys with my thumb, as I assumed that might be the solution, and unlike basically every other adjustment I've ever had to make for a keyboard, this just felt rough.

So I took a break and just thought about my previous and normal keyboards. Well, again, in those cases, all these chords assume you're using your thumb for one modifier, and your pinky for the other. Sooooo why not just do that?

Thus the solution was born:
MT(MOD_LSFT, KC_X)
MT(MOD_RSFT, KC_SLSH)

For the few of you who don't have your Via/QMK mappings memorized, this just says that if I tap the key in question, type z (or / for the second one), and if I hold the key in question, treat it as if I'm holding the shift key.

So my shift keys are now used by my pinky, just like normally. I have them on Z and /, so I can easily hold either for whatever chord. If I need something like ctrl+shift+z I can just use the right shift, and ditto for ctrl+shift+/.

Even better, this was already my natural inclination. It only took a bit for me to find out just how much faster and easier this was making things, as I already was used to the idea of moving my left pinky downwards to hit shift. In fact, it was even easier than normal. Every now and then I'll get zi instead of I because I didn't hold the key long enough for it to trigger the "shift" function, and I could get really messy and start screwing with how long the keyboard takes to recognize the difference between a press and a tap, but I'm super happy with it.

6. Conclusion -
My wife is right to judge me and I don't care from my superior position in typing valhalla.

So bit more than one month ago my very old Microsoft Sidewinder X4 keyboard broke the membrane on the 'A' key, meaning it was effectively kaput. I decided that I wanted to try a mechanical.

The Search

My use-cases are as follows, in the order of importance:

1. Gaming
2. Programming
3. General typing

These were the first requirements I settled on, based on my limited knowledge of mechanical keyboards:

• ISO nordic layout
• Full size: Because I make heavy use of both numpad and the insert-delete-home-end-page island of keys. Whatever it is called. I have zero interest in compromising on the standard layout.
• Nice to have: Metal body
• Nice to have: General high-quality
• Nice to have: Wireless, but only if 2.4Gz.
• Nice to have: Tactile switches
• Nice to have: Backlit keys
• Nice to have: Simple elegant aesthetic. I especially want to avoid typical gamer aesthetic.
• Budget basically unlimited

With these requirements I eventually settled on Keychron Q6 Max with Jupiter Brown. But just before ordering one, I started thinking about the height of the keys on a normal old-school mechanical.
I don't remember when I have last used one, all my recent keyboard had been modern low-profile so I didn't have a reference for what I was buying other than images.
I started reading about wrist problems from keyboard height and the recommendation of a wrist rest. I looked at the Keychron options and saw that they only had rests that were completely detached from the keyboard.
Thing is that I move my keyboard around my desk a lot, so I figured that having a wrist-rest that was not attached would become an annoyance.
After this I decided to just stick to what I am used to and added another requirement:

• Low-profile

Unfortunately when you set requirements for 100%, ISO, and low-profile, then the otherwise extensive Keychron catalogue becomes super limited. So I started looking elsewhere.
At the time there was a new post about a search engine on the /r/MechanicalKeyboards front page.
Using this I discovered the Cherry MX 10.0N. This seemed like a good deal. High quality all-metal body.
The only real sticking point was that the switches are linear with very short actuation, but I liked the look of this keyboard so much that I decided I could probably learn to live with it.

The review

The keyboard looks great in person. The all-metal body feels very solid and high-quality. It's got good heft and sticks to the table. The entire board is very thin and feels good to rest on.
The keys also feel high quality with minimal wobbling, and long keys sound and feel the same whether pressed on the edge or in the middle.

That's all the good stuff. Now on to the less good.

The foot

The adjustable foot in the back has no real positions. Meaning that there is no point in adjusting it where it will click in place and stay there, and it is under constant spring pressure to return to the stowed position. This means that the only thing keeping the extended foot in place is the weight of the keyboard. As mentioned I move my keyboard around frequently, and this means that everytime I move it I have to readjust the foot.
Additionally, it's highest position is sort of a balancing point, meaning that it you are a bit off, or accidentally push the keyboard a bit in this position, then the foot will suddenly collapse.
It's a minor annoyance, but one that is unique to this keyboard since I don't see this kind of foot design anywhere else. Otherwise the full-length metal foot is really nice, if only they had added proper click positions in its travel.

The switches

As mentioned, these are linear with very short actuation. CHERRY MX LOW PROFILE RGB SPEED switches to be specific. My first thought when trying to type with these was "Oh my god I hate this, how can some prefer this?!".
Constant mistyping was the name of the game. I was so used to being able to slightly miss a key, but still only actuate the intended. But that doesn't fly with this keyboard. If you depress any key even the slightest, it WILL actuate.
For gaming I first didn't understand why I sometimes kept jumping. I eventually figured out its because the mere weight of my thumb resting on the spacebar can be enough to actuate it sometimes.

After 1 month of regular usage, I can confidently say that my thoughts are now "Oh my god I hate this, how can some prefer this?!". Okay, I improved my typing somewhat to maybe half my mistyping. Gaming is still a pain, and I've had to regularly rest my thumb on the table instead to stop the sudden jumping.
Unfortunately this keyboard does not have hot-swappable switches, so there is no fixing it unless I want to buy a soldering iron and replace every single key, which I am not willing to.

Key spacing

So while the keyboard is technically 100%, Cherry has still designed it to be as compact as possible. One area where they have shaved off the length is the spacing between the main keys and the arrows keys and those above. Aswell as on the other side with the numpad.
I didn't know this prior to puchasing this keyboard, but apparently this spacing is essential for my muscle memory to be able to find those keys. The lack of spacing has meant that maybe 25% of the time I use them, I press the wrong key.

Overall

Now the issue with the switches and spacing is really an issue of preference. These aren’t quality issues. They were designed this way because some people like it (somehow). So if this keyboard looks interesting to you, and these preference design choices don't bother you, then I can only recommend the Cherry MX 10.0N. It really is a very high quality keyboard.

For me though, I just can't overlook these choices, so I have started looking for another keyboard again. I'm currently split between the Cherry KW X ULP and Logitech G915 X Lightspeed. None of them are full-metal body unfortunately. The cherry one seems to be the higher quality, but the the key caps remind me of laptops keys, which I really hate the feel of. Maybe I'm overreacting to it. The Logitech one is lower quality, but has all the the features that I would want. If you know of something better then please do leave a comment. I might reconsider my low-profile requirement. I'll give it at least another month before I become serious about switching again.

Hi Tildes!

My Leopold FC900R mechanical keyboard had a sudden thirst for a full cup of joe, which rendered the keyboard mostly unusable, even after drying for days.

This has been my favourite keyboard of all time, it looks and types the same as the day I got it, and I'm actually quite miffed it broke!

So Tildes, could you help me out? What would be a good replacement?

For people that do not know Leopolds lineup specifically, they're pretty much no frills high end mechanical keyboard. The only similar keyboard I've found so far is the Leopold FC900RBTS, but it's quite expensive and the colours it comes in aren't entirely my taste. Although I'm not opposed to putting down that kind of money, I'm wondering if there's no alternative available that matches my requirements at a slightly lower pricepoint.

So here's what I'm looking for:

• Double Shot PBT Keycaps, that's a must have.
• Fullsize keyboard. I still use my numpad!
• Wired connection. The Leopold FC900RBTS has both wired and wireless, that's fine too, but at it's core it must be wired.
• Relatively small sized frame, the frame on the Leopold is quite economically built. It's keys on a board and that makes it rather small even at full size.
• I think the FC900R came with MX Cherry Browns by default. I liked Browns but I'm not married to them.
• Cost can be anywhere between $50 and $150, but I prefer paying more if the quality matches the price.
• Colour scheme shouldn't be too shouty, but doesn't need to be full black/white either. This is what my keyboard looked like. I like that type of distinct but not loud colour scheme.
• Usecase is both typing and gaming, not heavy office work, but a decent amount of Tildes comment writing.

I was debating putting it into ~tech or ~gaming, but I suppose it's too allround for gaming. Although if it needs to move I'd love to hear it.

If someone has a suggestion, please let me know!
Thank you everyone!

Hey guys, anyone else into keyboards? Would love to hear about what you use or experiment with, I've only been into the hobby a few months so I am still pretty new. I'd love to hear your guys set up and what got you into it, how it's evolved.

Currently rocking a Keychron Q2 (65%) with Tecsee purple panda switches and Drop MT3 Cyber keycaps - Co piloting this is a KBDcrafts Addams numpad with their s2 engine switches.

I do also have a keychron Q8 (Alice) in transit - I plan to swap the switches to the KBD s2 engine switches as I am really liking them on the numpad. I ordered this model because my carpal tunnel issues are what awoke me to the mechanical keyboard world, the alice layout isn't perfect but better than standard for ergos it looks like.

Early on in the hobby I was convinced I'd be a tactile switch guy, but the s2 engine switches really changed my mind on liking linear, eager to try a full board with them.

This got rambly, but would love to hear from others into the hobby!

I have been using a "Pok3r"-style 60% board I assembled with MX Browns for years. As time goes on, I'm growing increasingly tired of the limitations, like pressing three different keys to get a ~. I use my keyboard for writing code, writing reports, and playing RTS games like Homeworld, which a 60% board is simply inadequate for doing. While I initially used VIM as my default text editor, I've moved to using VS Code, where using a function key to access arrow keys is simply absurd. So I'd love to get your set up:

What keyboard do you use?

What is your keyboard? What kind of switches? 60%, TKL, 100%? What brand do you use? Do you use a default keyboard with your system, a laptop keyboard, a gaming board, or some sort of ergonomic monstrosity?

What do you use your keyboard for?

Are you a developer? Are you a gamer? Do you write? What are your primary use cases?

I'm looking for a cheap small factor mechanical keyboard. I love the looks of XD64 or a JJ50. How do i go about it? I Don't want the numpad, don't care about leds and prefer more retro/sober styles than the ones with wings and dragons and lasers blazing across the keys.

I live in Brazil, so i'll have to import everything. I'm looking to buy everything from one place if possible.

I was looking at KPrepublic. What do i need for the xd64?

1. Plastic case
2. Key caps
3. XD64 PCB with gateron switchs (Kit 10)

Do i need plate and stabilizers? It's already $91 without it. If it's necessary, i think it would be a better idea to just buy a Durgod Taurus k320 since it's cheaper.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: Got a Magicforce 68 for $47. Thanks for the help!

I know there are at least fifteen threads on ~comp alone about mechanical keyboards, but, this one is mine.

I recently had a run in with tendinitis, which taught me the importance of ergonomics, but I still wanted the clickety clack of a mechanical keyboard, so I decided to consider buying an ergonomic mechanical keyboard.

The first one that I looked at was the ErgoDox EZ (it was the first one I saw). It had a split layout, open source firmware, and a positive review from Linus Tech Tips.

The second one was the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard (I saw the Hacker News thread). I was interested in it for the Trackball Module.

These two keyboards are different enough from each other, so it's hard to compare them.

In conclusion, why should I choose one over the other?

The ErgoDox has been out for a few years now and spawned many, many new designs based off it. My question is how would you improve it? I've been trying to answer this question for a few weeks now and would like to know what the community thinks. What is important in a keyboard for you?

I've thrown my hat into the ring with Gergo which I think comes close. It uses SMD components, reducing the overall size and cost of the board, Removes the ProMicro for a TQFP Atmega32u4, moves the paddles in a tiny bit and removes the extra keys from the thumb cluster. It's meant to be used without a case (using rubbered standoffs to keep it off the desk/surface) and the back has some pretty designs. The hardest part for me to justify was loping off the number row, but seeing as many layouts use a modifier and the right hand pad as a ortho numpad I went with it. Worst case the default layout will have paddle + top row give numbers. In addition, for occasional mouse users, I designed a trackball that fits inside of a 1u key and can be mounted on the right hand side of the board (or a regular key if wanted). The idea being for small movements you have something other then QMKs mouse keys to work with. I've gone into a bit more detail on my blog on the design considerations

The main thing I tried to optimize with Gergo was cost. Ergo keyboards need not be expensive and I think the price point on this board drives it home. With a cheap set of caps off Amazon and some Cherry clones, this board can be put together for under 100$ shipping included. Compared to a ErgoDox EZ with a starting price of 250$ before keys or shipping, I think I've done a decent job.

As keyboards are highly personal devices, what do you look for in a keyboard?

I just got my /dev/tty blanks in from Massdrop and I an thinking of dying them to match my current ABS colorway.

I have looked at the guide and I think I am able to do all that, but I am wondering what kind of look I am going to/can get by dying the gray and red caps?

I assume the gray caps would just yield a slightly darker color, but I am curious if I can get an interesting shade of brown by dying the red keycaps with some other color (or just more brown?)

Any hints on dying the colored caps or dying PBT in general are appreciated.

I'm only a beginner down the rabbithole known as mech-keebs, but I thought I'd source some thoughts here. Apologies if this has been expanded on in other ~hobbies threads.

Those of you who have been in the mech game longer, what switches have you tried? What do you find are your personal preferences on switches and why do you think that is? Have you ventured away from the very popular Cherry MX switches?

What about keycaps? What are your favourite profiles or colourway designs? Preferred material? I am currently rocking a DSA set of keycaps from one of my favourite designers, MiTo: https://mitormk.com/legacy-dsa/ I got the blue/black Tron-inspired set. I gotta admit, I was a little skeptical of ABS caps, but they're really nicely textured in a way that's reminiscent of PBT, but without that powdery grippiness.

Tell me about some of your favourite layouts too! I hear some pretty aggressive proponents of tenkeyless layouts, but I just really like my numpad for lots of numeric input. If it were just a gaming keyboard, I probably would be pretty happy with TKL though.

Are you working on any new projects right now?

Looking forward to all the responses!