Sorry if this is not the right place to post this.

I'm interested in a book about game development for the creation of world's, topics I'd like to see covered are:

• L-System
• Scene generator
• Fractal landscape

Is anyone aware of any material that may help me learn about the implementation of said topics. They don't need to be fully automated like a scene generator. Understanding immersion would also be important.

And perhaps while I'm at it if you have any favourite game development books I'd love to know them.

I'm traveling for the holidays and only have my laptop, which I don't really have many full fledged games I can run on it (it's a macbook, so a combination of poor macOS support in general + the 32bit cliff means many games just don't run on here). I'm also more interested in casual games while traveling anyways.

Let me know if you have any recommendations for browser-based games, ideally something a little off the beaten path. Multiplayer suggestions welcome too for completeness.

I find myself in an unusual situation wanting to play PC games that can't suck me in. Bear with me, this is a weird and specific request.

Ideally I want something I can easily pick up and put down maybe 1-2 times an hour between tasks. Chess or Risk came to mind, but I don't want something that mandates input or else you forfeit. Also thought of Civ, but in the past I've played that for hours at a time. I haven't found a setting that could force me to slow down, but maybe there's a mod I could use? Seems like I need something that either has built-in cooldowns or allows custom time controls.

Maybe there's some mobile games that are on PC that would fall into this category? I played "Egg, Inc" years ago, but remember the cooldowns started to extend into days which is when I stopped.

For reference, I typically play via Steam, Epic, or GOG and I like these game genres: strategy, RTS, tower defense, puzzle/logic, city building, simulation, automation, and exploration. But since there's probably not many games like this I'm definitely willing to branch out!

My weekly D&D group has been running for a number of years now and unfortunately our current DM is suffering from some pretty severe burnout at the moment (both in life and D&D in general). I think ultimately we're going to end up shuttering our D&D campaign, and may well never pick the game up again as we've almost all soured on WotC/Hasbro after the OGL debacle.

This week we entertained ourselves by messing around with image generation (velociraptor nun was a favorite result and became a bit of a running theme through the evening) but the fun in that can only last so long. We've also had some nights playing games like Dead by Daylight and Midnight Ghost Haunt but those are typically games we reserve for around Halloween. We also play some of the Jackbox Party Pack games, but they're only moderately fun to be honest.

We're usually a group of 7, and this particular formation of the friend group has been meeting almost exclusively online and will probably want to continue that way for the foreseeable future. I'd like some suggestions for games we could play together (either video game or TTRPG that works well online) that are: mostly cooperative or at least team based (we're not very competitive), something that won't become repetitive and dry after a couple of sessions (goal-oriented I guess), and something that we don't have to pay a subscription for. The ability to drop in or out as life dictates would be a plus too. Any thoughts?

Looking for an app/platform for logging and rating the games I've played. I play a lot of classic games (playing Dragon Warrior 2 right now) so something with support for older stuff is a must. Tell me what you use!

Recently on here someone recommended a game called travle, which is a lot of fun even though I suck at it, as do my friends who play. Can anyone recommend other similar "one puzzle per day" style games?

Hello, due to some unfortunately circumstances I need to have my left hand in a cast for some time and I'm looking for recommendations for games I could play only using my right hand (so only using the mouse). I have a few in my library that I've already been playing like Super Auto Pets and Let's Revolution, but I'm a bit bored of them. I also tried a tower defense game called Super Sanctuam TD, which was in my library, so I've tried looking for some other TD games but couldn't find anything that caught my eye.

Edit: I only listed what I've played recently, but I don't really want to limit myself to any genre, the only requirement is to be playable only with the mouse.

Set your Wayback machine to the early 2000s, and you'll find me in hog heaven, building and racing old muscle cars from a catalogue of real world parts that interacted as they would in real life. EA released this game as a racing MMO, but I spent most of my time treating it as a single player game, building my hot rods and racing against the computer.

In 2003, they pulled the plug. Since then, nothing has come close. There are mechanic simulators, but you don't get to drive the cars when you finish them. Then there are the racing games, but none of those have the.level of detail in the build and tuning portion that MCO did. In MCO, you needed to actually build your engine in a way that the parts would work well with each other in order to get the best performance. It wasn't simply an upgrade chain, as you could easily spend ten grand on parts and come out with a 200hp brick.

Most recently, my search has led me to a.game called Revhead from Australia. It scratches a LOT of the itch, but it's still missing a lot of the stuff I miss from MCO. You can build cars with parts and race.them, but the build still feels like a more money=more power equation instead of an exercise in research and testing to figure out the perfect recipe for my particular driving style.

Am I chasing a pipe dream in the hopes that there is a.modern equivalent for that old gem?

As title says, once Valve announced the OLED deck, I saw the refurbished originals go on a deep discount and figured it was time to buy in. So I ordered a refurb 512GB and I’m so excited for it to arrive! Been in a gaming rut for a long time now and, having never been a PC gamer, I’m look forward to checking out a bunch of games I’ve never played before.

What tips do you have for a first time Deck owner?

Any essential games I should be sure to get?

And finally, is it possible to get games I own on the Epic Games Store (I collected all their free games over the years) or Xbox Game Pass PC games on my Steam Deck?

I live in a pretty compact house, and have my work office upstairs in a corner of one of my kids bedrooms.

Obviously, gaming in there after they are asleep is a no go! Our one tv is usually given over to my wife on evenings I break out the Steam Deck - which has been my first foray back into gaming since having kids and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

However, I'm interested if anyone has found a neat solution to use it in e.g. desktop mode without a conventional monitor or TV to dock with, that I could break out quickly on a breakfast bar and then stow easily.

I'm envisaging some kinda of Frankensteined cheap laptop shell housing to contain the screen and keyboard-

Steam Deck -> USB C Dock -> HDMI out to laptop screen and USB out to keyboard.

Anyone familiar with something resembling this kind of setup, or something similar?

Recently I've been really nostalgic for really simple, daily turn-based games. Not sure how many people here may have played Empire, but this is what I'm talking about. I very fondly remember dialing in (with a modem) to 4-5 different Unix based BBSes just to play Empire every day. Each day your turn may take 10 minutes. This is the key thing I am nostalgic about...really low time investment every single day, but in a game with lot's of other players.

Other games that I really enjoyed back then were the BBS "door games" like Tradewars. Tradewars can still be played via telnetting into various BBSes that people are keeping up and running.

So, now that I've set the scene, what are the really simple games out there that you may play that are daily turn-based?

Second question, what would people think about a web based version of Empire? I'm thinking of building it, if I don't find the existence of it somewhere already. I think it would be really cool to have someone drop by the web site, click play, and have them thrown into a map with other players (up to 30 per a map or so).

I've been trying, without success, to find a good video game that is in the D&D/Pathfinder type genre, but without mature content. Some very light profanity would be OK. I really want to avoid games that objectify females, which, unfortunately, a lot of games in this genre does. Preferably something that can be played solo, even if that's in a multi-player environment. I'm good with new games, old games, indy games, high priced games, whatever. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

For the first time in my adult life I actually have some real discretionary money, and the one personal purchase I've wanted to make for a long time is a VR rig. I was hoping for input I can be pretty sure isn't tainted by capitalism/ads.

Cost-vs-value will matter a lot, but the actual cost isn't too big a concern anymore. Budget up to maybe $3-4K if it's really worth the money.

And to note, I already have a pretty gnarly personal computer that is more than capable of running VR games (Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core / RTX 3090 / 32GB DDR4) -- I just need the rig.

I got Skyrim on PC, which means that I can really MOD now. However, a lot of the MODs are about making things more difficult, complex, or realistic, appealing to very "pro" players. That is not my case. I just wanna do Skyrim the "right way", but without the cruft of a 2011 game. What are some MODs that make the game more manageable and lively?

And yes I'm playing this instead of Starfield :P

Here's a first world problem: I work remote and sometimes I get bored during meetings. Wondering if you guys had any game recommendations for games I can play on a second monitor or something while I kill boredom in my meetings. Mouse only is probably the biggest requirement, and also something more "turn based" so if I need to I can still pay attention to the parts that I need to.

Some of my recommendations:
Slay the Spire (+ Downfall) - I "beat" all of it (A20H for all characters) so I wanted to take a break, but I loved it.
Monster Train - I didn't get into it as much as StS tbh, it's fineeee but not my personal favorite
Super Auto Pets - I'm not really an Autobattler kinda guy but the slow pace and the rotating sets make this game kinda perfect for what I'm looking for!
Brotato - I've been playing mouse only, but can't really stop it in the middle of an intense run tbh.

Steam or Android games if possible!

Hello all and welcome to the weekend! We made it. Or if your weekend doesn't begin until later, you'll make it yet!

Let's talk cozy games! You know the ones I'm talking about, Animal Crossing, Stardew Valley, Harvest Moon. Games we used to call something else before the collective zeitgeist of the Internet decided to lump them all together under (which I'm personally fine with, I mean what do you call Animal Crossing anyway?)

In a stark contrast to my younger and more vulnerable years, I've become much more of "casual" gamer, and I find myself enjoying shorter bouts of play rather than becoming engrossed in the same world or story for hours on end. Games like Animal Crossing are perfect for this, in that I can just pick it up, talk to some villagers and go fishing or whatever, and put it down whenever I please. Not just that though, but I just absolutely love the warm and well, cozy vibe games like these offer. I've best heard them described as a warm mug of tea by a window as it rains outside.

Enough about me, let's talk about you! What "cozy" games do you enjoy? Feel free to lump them all together, who cares, it doesn't matter! We are all cozy games on this day.

11PM - Animal Crossing: Wild World

So I recently tried to replay Prototype on PC, only to learn that it's essentially incompatible with modern hardware and crashes instantly past the main menu.

I've tried searching other posts on other sites and most people recommend super hero games and Infamous. Well, I don't have a PS, so Infamous is off the table, and super hero games really are not the same. Call me immature, but if I can't massacre civilians in my power fantasy game, it's not really like Prototype.

I've seen pretty much all the AAA games of past and present that get recommended, but I'm wondering if there are any Indie games that aren't at the forefront that I've missed.

Hey all, hope everyone is well today and staying cool!

Lately I've been very interested in incremental mobile games, and also idle games. I'm not 100% on the terminology, but for whatever reason I've found myself enjoying games that simply make me wait. It's odd, I know, but I think it's related to a recent personal decision to distance myself from online apps; an oxymoron, I'm aware.

Anyway! Recommend your favorite incremental/idle apps please. I'm currently enjoying:

• Kittens Game

• Tiny Tower

• Pocket Trains

And.. that's it! If you have any recommendations yourself, let me know. Thanks in advance, and have a wonderful day.

PS: bonus points for outer space! I swear there's a space trading game that was mostly text-based, but the title escapes me.

PPS: Android!

As a reference, I found this thread from 2019. There are several good recommendations, but I'd like to see if there's something new since then.

When I'm homeworking, my wife and I like to play short board games during lunch time. We're very casual players, and have Hive with all extensions, Onitama, and Jaipur. We both like Jaipur because it's more light-hearted and easygoing (and maybe non abstract), but it takes some time and space to setup. Hive and Onitama are much quicker to setup and play, but require more focus than I have during lunch :)

We'll probably buy Hanabi or Patchwork next, to get something cooperative. I'd also like to try another easy deck building game, but I have no idea what to get.

So, what do you like to play during lunch?

I've recently gotten into the board gaming hobby and picked up a few solo games for when I want to play but don't have anyone to play with. I was wondering what everyone's favorite solo board games were, fully solo, solo modes, or 3rd party solo rules.

So far my favorites have been the two lcgs I picked up, Marvel Champions and Lord of the Rings the card game. They both have similar gameplay but are different enough to keep things interesting. I really enjoy the deckbuilding aspect too, though I'm new to it so theres lots of trial and error involved.

I've also played a bit of Star Wars: The Clone Wars, a pandemic spinoff, which seems like it could be fun once I get into it more.

Does anyone have recommendations for a good Stellaris tutorial that is in the intermediate realm? I understand the basics and UI, but with so many changes, I feel like I need some encouragement with properly managing an economy, review into fighting mechanics, etc. I searched YouTube before posting and just found several tutorials that talk about the basic components and the UI - which I understand. Looking into more strategy and intermediate-level mechanics.

I’m slowly getting into warhammer 40k but feel pretty disconnected from the broader 40K universe.

Are there any active communities where people discuss 40K? Discussion about new models, balancing, rule changes, painting show cases, etc.

Right now I’m just painting alone listening to PoorHammer on YouTube 😅.

I thought it'd be fun to have our own recommendation list before the final results are announced.

Here's the link to the theme announcement video (the theme is "Role Reversed") and link to the itch.io page where you can find all the entries. The default sort is 'random' but you can also change to other Sort if you just want to quickly check out some more notable examples. Also select 'Play in browser' in 'Platform' if you're worried about having to download files.

If you participated in the jam, let us know too!

Edit: since the mountain of entries is enormous, I'm thinking a way to narrow the scope and reduce choice paralysis is this: try out 3 entries that caught your interest for whatever reason, and tell us which one among them you like most (you can recommend all of them, or try out more if you're up for it). Feel free to be as loose or selective in your recommendation as you want.

The System Shock remake thread got me thinking about it. I've played the crap out of the Dishonored series, and Prey, along with some Deathloop, and I really enjoy all of them. It's crazy how much fun it can be to just really get into it, I drop the lights and everything, sit 8 inches from my 4k monitor (ghetto VR basically), and just 'enter' the game. This is especially fun when a little THC is involved!

Any games I may have overlooked? I do prefer the First Person type games, the visuals are part of the immersion for me personally.

Hi there,

I enjoy writing! I find all formats fun to play with from short stories to screenplays. One thing I've never really written for is video games. I love the idea though. All the world building, lore notes, dialogue, weapon descriptions, codecs, bestiaries and on and on. There's all sorts of ways to tell a story through a video game and I want to try my hand at it!

Problem being though, I'm not particularly interested in game design. I'm not NOT interested, but it's not where my passion is. I am willing to learn what I need to, so don't shy away from suggestions that would require me to learn some on the design side.

Really the only ideas I've come up with are using the mod creator in Neverwinter Nights 1/2 or something like RPG Maker? Are these overwhelmingly difficult to get started in? Could I write in all the things I mentioned from dialogue to weapon descriptions?

Or perhaps trying to find someone NOT interested in the storytelling side? Someone who wants to focus on design but would love some storytelling in their project and would welcome the addition?

Or even starting with TTRPG modules maybe. Video Games and TTRPG modules seem to have some similar storytelling elements.

Does anyone in the profession have thoughts? Does anyone not in the profession have thoughts?

anyways, bye love you

I game a lot, and I have many ear piercings (the troublesome ones are industrial and cartilage and for ear buds, both tragus, but I'm looking for just normal headsets). Most headsets make my ears ache after 20-45 minutes. I can almost pick out how much they're going to hurt when I try them on, and nothing at my local Best Buy has anything available that feels right. Additionally, many are heavy and sit on the top of my head like a brick - before I completed my ear decorations, that was usually my peeve.

Currently, the only headset I adore is SteelSeries Siberia (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SN9RN8). I can wear them for hours. Sadly, I cannot get a replacement. I tried their Arctis 5 and immediately sent it back. The Siberia does not have a mic, so that's basically the only reason I am wanting to get another set.

If anyone can recommend something with the following characteristics, I'd be willing to drop a pretty penny on them... not that I can afford to, but it'll be an investment if it lasts as long as these Siberia have!

• Preferably cloth ear surface texture;
• Preferably something that doesn't sit heavily on the head - though the ones I've tried that clamped for staying on my ears would give me headaches as well;
• Must be wired. No bluetooth. Caveat: if it has a usb dongle, could be doable. (My computer does not have BT capabilities.) I hate things running out of battery though, so it will have to be good;
• Must have extendable head band up top, if its method is not gripping on your ears without head support;

I'm sure I've missed something, but if there's a fellow ear-pierced gamer whose had issues with many headsets but found the perfect one, please recommend! Thanks!

I have fond memories of trying to solve HTML/text-based riddles on sites like WeffRiddles when I was growing up in the mid-late 2000s. The premise of the site is usually pretty simple: the landing page represents "level 1", and you had to find the correct URL to get to level 2, 3, and so on. The "puzzle/riddle" aspect usually involves inspecting the underlying HTML and looking through clues given in the source code, then using those clues to piece together the URL for the next stage.

It was always fun hanging out on forums and sharing clues about how to solve the level that everyone was stuck on. Also, being a kid back then, frankly I felt like a Hackerman™️ whenever I'd have to inspect the page source, paste it into Windows Notepad, then set font size to 1pt because I thought there was an ASCII art pattern hidden in the HTML. Good times.

Sometimes I get the urge to play these things again, but besides WeffRiddles which I know by name, I don't really know what this type of game is called. The closest "modern" example I can think of is /dev/esc, which is more like an online escape room than a long-form riddle site.

Does this ring a bell for you? Any other fun ones that you remember playing? And what the hell do I type into Google to find more of these?

I'm looking for more recent games that are reminiscent of the original Doom, Quake, and shooters of that era. Preferably on PC, but also on the Xbox.

I am, of course, aware of the most recent Doom games, but I gotta be honest, I'm not a big fan. They don't feel old-school to me.

1990s shooters have a simplicity that I crave.

I have no intention to play online, so a good campaign is a requirement.

Thanks!

The idea is to get a console to play raging in complexity from the NES, SNES, up to Nintendo DS and PSP. Anything above that is not a priority or a necessity. But it would be nice to have a screen large enough to handle DS games in some form. Can I find anything decent in that price range?

Thanks :)

I've been wanting a new card game to sink my teeth into. There's so many though! I plan on trying them all out more or less, but was curious to hear what others are playing, if anything new was on the horizon, and what opinions were!

I've played MtG Arena, Pokemon TCG Live, Yugioh Master Duel, Legends of Runeterra, and KARDS.

I liked them all to varying degrees, but still wanna seek out others before I start leaning in to one. Warhammer also has a digital ccg coming out called Warpforged. I liked the demo, but I don't think it has a release date :(

Anyways, what do y'all think I should try and play?

I'm starting a new campaign soon and I plan to create a homebrew setting and story like I've done in the past. I've used a combination of Google Docs, Evernote, and other general purpose tools for other settings and campaigns. Does anyone use something like World Anvil or Legend Keeper? Something else?

I'm still in the brainstorming stage of world building, and I'd like a place to collect my thoughts and plans. Ideally I'd be able to easily convert that into something searchable and updateable when it's time to actually play in the setting.

Do you use a single tool for creating maps, NPCs, plot points, history, and adventures? Or do you have a suite of tools you find works well to cover all those aspects?

I’m a big fan of simple incremental/idle games to burn a few minutes on the bus, but most of the games for mobile are pretty low quality.

My all time favorite is easily Idle Apocalypse, but there are bound to be other good ones as well.

Hey everyone. The Steam summer sale should go live in a few hours, I thought it would be fun for us to have a topic dedicated to game recommendations. Rather than having an typical review post, I think we can do something different. Think about the games you've played in the last year and pick one that is meaningful to you, then post a comment with it and why you think others should try it.

I have a PS VR2 and it's my first headset. I played call of the mountain, a bit of no man's sky, swordsman, tentacular, and beat saber. I was thinking I would buy Synapse tonight, but it has mediocre reviews. I want to start a new game, but am having trouble deciding which one. Here is my short list.

• Synapse - looks super fun, and I like that it's an exclusive, but mediocre reviews
• Song in the smoke - I enjoy survival games and in general prefer non shooter games, so this has an appeal to me.
• Red Matter 2 - this one has some pretty good reviews and I do enjoy sci-fi tv and movies, but don't go out of my way to play sci-fi games
• Moss - I know it's critically acclaimed, but I was really hoping for a first person experience
• the light brigade - I could see myself enjoying this.

Since I can't decide, I think I'll be happy with just about any of these. I'll play the most voted comment!

Hi friends,

I’ve been enjoying listening to audiobooks a lot lately but find I generally have to be doing something (e.g. going for a walk, doing dishes etc) while I listen to them since it would be strange to just sit in a chair and stare and if I closed my eyes I might fall asleep.

I have found a couple of mindless games I can play on my phone while listening that don’t distract me from the story such as temple run, desert golf and amazing brick, but I’d be interested if anyone else had any suggestions?

I’d also be open to more substantial games as well so long as they didn’t have a lot of dialogue or require a lot of brain power (I’ve found trying to solve chess puzzles while listening to the audiobook just distracts me too much from the book for example).

Thanks in advance!

It seems like every game these days is just some idle clicker or some other lazy game that tries to peddle in app purchases.

Is there anything that actually is worth playing still, for someone that usually plays PC games?

I noticed that r/pokemongo and r/TheSilphRoad are down because of the blackout, so now I'm not sure where to go for information. The actual Silph Road forum was shut down by Niantic, and ones like Pokemon Go Hub aren't as focused on PvP or have the kind of discussion that the subreddit did. Does anyone know of other forums out there?

I'm looking for some games I can play with my team at work as part of our next team building event. We're 7 people, so finding a game that can seat everyone is challenging (and we don't want to split tables in this case).

My favorite board game is 7 wonders, which obviously is perfect except for the fact that it's pretty rules heavy and my team is mostly not boardgamers, so will probably be overwhelmed.

Cards against Humanity was also mentioned but is probably not PG enough for a work event.

What would you play?

I've been interested in getting into it for the last few years but haven't managed to get started, no one I know personally is into it, and within online communities I'm a part of I sometimes miss dates for campaigns, often due to my work schedule.

My Lenovo laptop and Dell desktop have subpar specs on them, so playing a AAA game from the last decade is out of the question. They struggle to run Team Fortress 2, BioShock, and Minecraft at 30 FPS, but 1990's boomer shooters and some indie titles play fairly smoothly. Here are some of the games that they can run:

• Doom (1993 to Final)
• Quake (1-3)
• Deus Ex (2000)
• Max Payne 2
• Half-Life 2 and its episodes
• Portal series
• Batman: Arkham City
• Celeste
• Hue
• The Stanley Parable
• Borderlands 2

Any suggested games would be greatly appreciated.

I used to like Command & Conquer and similar games, but these days I find it stressful and too fast paced.

I want some recommendations of turn based games that does not have a steep learning curve like Hearts of Iron but it's not too simple like Advanced Wars.

It needs to be for PC and run on a Ryzen 3200G laptop.

So right now I'm about to finish persona 5 strikers and I'm not sure on what to play next. This are the possible games (nintendo switch):

• The legend of Zelda: tears of the kingdom
• Cassette beasts
• Cult of the lamb
• Shin megami tensei V

Would you like to help me choose? Please

For example, Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett has forever changed how I roleplay dragons.

I'm going on a camping trip soon. I've loaded up my eReader with books from Appendix N and am looking for other grist for the mill. Mainly looking for books at the moment, but feel free to suggest other things.

Hello everyone,

I have been craving a sort of game genre, but I'm not quite sure what it is or if it really exists as a genre at all.
It is a game with a lot of existential twists to it. I could call it Mystery though I feel it falls short.
The main story tends to be a complete upheaval of what we thought was the basic premise. Think of it like paradigm shift: the game.
They also tend to be games that you can really only play once. Lucky for me my memory is horrible.

So far I came up with these games:

• Outer Wilds
• Enderal (which is a "total conversion mod for Skyrim", but an amazing game)
• The Forgotten City
• Paradise Killer

Most of these have some kind of cycle involved in them, but I'm not sure if that's coincidental. All of them have you learn how the world works and it's never really what you first expected.
They tend to be light in battle, which is probably a skill issue bias on my part.

Honorary mention to:

• Strange Horticulture
• Horizon Zero Dawn, but the sequel less so (although still a very good game)
• The Zero Escape series, although I haven't played the first one yet
• The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (as it really breaks away expectations you got from earlier games too, and the existential dread is dripping off it)
• Nier Automata
• Doki Doki Literature Club

Do you know any others? Or do you know a good match to this list?
What do you think kind of links all this? Feel like playing one of these games?

I've lately exhausted most of my main library of games that would work well with an ultrawide monitor (mine being 21:9). I've been trying to find some new games to try or buy that utilize ultrawides to their potential. I think the default games that they're generally used are first person shooters given the FOV is comfortably wider and gives a competitive edge, but I'm looking for more creative utilization types.

An off-the-cuff example would be It Takes Two: It's still a gain in FOV, but it thoroughly improves the experience when both players can see more of their half of the game. Can anyone think of any other games where the whole ultrawide gets utilized well in either FOV, UI placement, or general design choices?

So, I have been getting into some Blades in the dark stuff recently. I am loving it due to the fact that I really don't need to spend much time between sessions doing any prep. Sure, I can spend as much time brainstorming cool stuff to happen but really it all happens at the table.

So, what other cool TTRPGs are out there that support this kind of play?