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Waving goodbye, carrying my bundle on a stick
Just wanted to say goodbye to everyone. Sorry if I upset anyone, and thanks for all the fun little interactions. I didn't really get to know anyone too to well I suppose, but there are some people I'll miss interacting with. The way things have gone over the past week, I've definitely outstayed my welcome. Or the welcome has outstayed me, I don't know.
ta-ra, hope everyone can live their best lives.
i have no clue wtf you did, but I assume since you're doing goodbyes that you could repair whatever damage was done and not leave.
I can't help but wonder if there's any correlation between the people leaving and the admin post earlier this week.
Either way I've neither seen or read about any bad interactions on here to be honest...
Every time there's a post about some drama here I (rarely) know what anyone is talking about lol.
Sure sometimes it's super obvious and all over the front page, but usually someone posts something like this and I'm scratching my head.
I'm pretty sure I'm subbed to everything except sport maybe. I don't read every thread obviously, but like uh, it never seems that bad?
Guess it's all subjective!
Depending on your demographic it might also not see that bad. For context, see this comment thread.
That's what I'm wondering as well.
I wonder if they do realize that wasn't some announcement of placing the website on life support, right?
I mean, it pretty much means that. No development and no growth just the bare minimum is effectively what life support amounts to.
Also see this comment by Deimos himself.
I mean it kind of is in terms of membership. Emailing to get an invite doesn't work and codes aren't being given out to members. So as a newer user I wonder how much to invest here - I can't invite anyone like minded or even suggest they ask.
Having read Deimos' comments this seems to be deliberate; old users will fade out for any number of reasons and new ones aren't really invited. That very much does spell the end of the site, the question is the timeframe.
I don’t understand what you mean? Each account can generate invite codes which allow new members to join. You can access them on this page
Nope, I've just checked mine and there's none either. Maybe when you joined that was the norm but not for the more recent joiners it seem.
You only get a limited set of them. Once they run out they are out. In the past Deimos has topped them up at times but that never has been a given.
I see your account is from April of this year. I may be wrong, but I thought it takes some time before a new user is potentially given invitation codes.
I saw Deimos' thread like everyone else. But perhaps I missed something. I know he said Tildes isn't looking to grow, but I didn't think that meant zero growth. But maybe I missed him clarifying in the comments. As far as I know, those who have available codes can still send out invitations (I have some still and I've been re-upped a couple times over the last few years). There's still the r/tildes thread that @cfabbro monitors.
In many ways, Tildes was never pro-growth. Or at least hasn't been in a looooong time. Probably since even before I got here in 2019. The fact that the site pop doubled in 2023 was because of an external reason, not anything Tildes did or decided to do. That was all reddit shenanigans and people looking for a new home. Many Tildoes just decided to respond to the call and send out invitations. That wasn't an official Tildes push as far as I'm aware.
I took his post in the literal sense: He's not planning to add any new features, and kindly told people to drop it (i.e. the posts about new tags and features). That was it.
Maybe I also missed some messages between the lines, but I didn't take away that he's planning to kill off Tildes or let it die. It's just on maintenance mode, that's it. Not every piece of software needs to receive new features every year to be considered "alive".
That was my first thought too, but this comment gave me second thoughts.
I'll give you one of my invite codes if you want to invite someone
Bad interactions are highly subjective. There are very few interactions on Tildes done in bad faith, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be unpleasant for parties involved.
Spending time on Tildes is ultimately a completely optional free time activity, so when that arbitrary personal "unpleasant threshold" is exceeded, people leave. Which is completely understandable.
I leave Tildes every day. Sometimes multiple times a day.
That’s precisely what people are leaving, but I find it to be a little odd. Everybody in these threads knows now that it’s not hard to add a user script to ignore users. The real bone of contention appears to be not that they do not want to see comments or posts from certain people, but rather that they are more concerned that I or other people will encounter these comments or posts without being censored or made aware of how wrong what they are saying is.
Heated interactions, but not bad ones. Be yourself, you might offend, learn something, move on. These are the rules for online e discourse, homey.
Its a hard lesson to learn, but so long as you're ready to change your mind as often as you're prepared to stand your ground on things you believe in, then it really doesn't matter how others react. Who cares.
Love the ones who understand this and fuck the rest ;)
The aversion of some users here to see anything that disagrees with their world view or be challenged on anything they believe is very strange to me. I'm seeking the opposite, I want my views challenged, they NEED to be challenged for me to continue to become a better person with a more mature world view. I just want that done in a respectable manner, which is usually what I see on this site and something you don't see as much on Reddit, where things devolve into a gross nightmare quickly.
Agreed, I think it comes down to some sort of difference between people viewing tags on this site as some form of isolated and protected community that shouldn't have to deal with people not already holding some baseline of ideas vs people taking the site as a public whole and commenting wherever they feel they have something to say. There's decent arguments for both but the site has never thrown it's weight behind one identity or the other so we rehash the same issue repeatedly between the micro-cultures.
I've certainly had many of my ideas challenged and changed over the years on here, but sometimes to get there I had to engage in a manner that challenged people's beliefs and necessarily lead to passionate debate. I'm not sure my account would survive that today.
In recent years I've mostly learned those areas of Tildes simply don't want that sort of debate which would give them the opportunity to influence me, so I just filter the tags. Not worth the accusations of bad faith, invading a community, or JAQing off when that's how I've had my good faith debate and learning process perceived before. Nowadays the moderation feels much harsher as well at least from the long term user's I've seen banned here when they had an off day or struck a specific topic wrong, I feel like if I hold what may be a controversial opinion I have to be at my absolute A game when making the argument and have to sign up for two days of debate in order to engage at all and have it come across as good faith.
Instead I usually just chill my own speech and stick to other topics, but I don't really think that's been healthy for the diversity of the site as a whole and it's certainly prevented me from engaging in debate that would have otherwise further developed my worldview.
There are certain topics I also just avoid here due to the same issues, it's unfortunate because I like the back and forth with people, I'm also a passionate person who likes to argue, sometimes playing devil's advocate because it makes me think, but always willing to shake hands and walk away agreeing to disagree no matter how heated things become. As long as respect is maintained I'll debate anything, sometimes passionately.
I remember a class back in highschool where the teacher picked a somewhat (for highschool) polarizing topic and each student had to pick a 'side' and debate it. Once we had picked our sides the teacher announced the teams we were on would now hold the opposite position they signed up for and would have to debate from that opposite point of view. I learned a lot in that debate.
If you felt that other users were attacking a core component of your identity, even if it was “respectful,” would you want them to continue, or would you want them to stop? If they continued doing it even though you told them you didn’t like it and why, would you be okay with that?
I think there's a strong motivation to being part of a project with a vision and that you feel is going somewhere, is getting better over time, it gives you hope and makes you overlook current issues. It's not too surprising some people don't want to invest their time into something that is explicitly not evolving anymore.
I like this comment. I was a bit confused why people wanted to leave just cuz there's no on-going development, this explains it well. It's more about being a part of something that is moving towards a common goal.
I would point out that new alternatives are in rapid development but most (at least in my experience) have very little motivation to try and foster a new community. This is somewhat exacerbated by the onslaught of AI slop recently.
Thanks for putting it succinctly. I've been feeling like that for the last couple of days. Additionally, I don't want to take up any more time or money from someone who might be ready to move on.
The admin post appears to have been a response to two posts asking for additional negative labels for comments, one asking for a “misinformation” label, the other asking for a “one-sided” label that would additionally act to make the comment less visible. Those, in turn, seem to have been motivated by the posters’ experiences over several threads, but the ‘jar-opening’ thread seems to have been a frequently-cited example. The implication from some supporters of those ideas is that they would leave if something was not implemented. I expect others may want to leave simply because of the sense of increased hostility surrounding those discussions and the ones that motivated them.
I must have missed this jar opening thing. I’ve seen it referenced a few times but I have no idea what it was about.
It's here.
(I couldn't find the thread at first, then remembered that I ignored it because it was so
weirdcontroversial.)Yeah that whole thread was a dumpster fire. I feel a little better going back and reading it and seeing all the posts below mine that were also dumpster fires.
I also feel kinda good that I finally saw the drama everyone is talking about, I usually miss these things.
I kinda feel like the drama history and having people “in the know” is part of what creates community.
I see. It looks like it spawned a lot of discussion. I wonder, would that have been better if all the wrong opinions were moderated out of existence, or had community notes attached by the correct thinking people explaining the truth?
You not seeing them doesn't mean they aren't there. That links to someone asking about it in the thread from Deimos with several people giving context to what you are saying.
It's all very tame as opposed to the rest of the net. Oh well, everyone has their own limits.
Seems like in the notorious jar thread nobody had any ill intent but as a whole it may have been interpreted as dismissive by the reader who's predisposed with an opposing viewpoint.
That says a lot more about the sad state of afairs the rest of the net is in. But also doesn't mean that people should just accept everything here.
It is not even really about intent, as I tried to describe here.
As I said there as general advice, if someone tells something about their experiences in life don't see it as something that needs correcting. Most people get annoyed by that, some groups just have to deal with it more often making it more exhausting.
I did actually read it, twice, and agree with every word
I think what Peter may have meant is that on the rest of the internet they come out and just say the words “women don’t deserve to have tools made for them cause they belong in the kitchen” or something along those lines with a lot worse language.
What Ive noticed about Tildes that probably makes it really hard to moderate is that no one does that, instead they pour 1000s of words into “sealing” or whatever you call it, methods a lot harder to catch and punish, or, “tame”
Fyi, a bundle on a stick can also be called a bindle.
You're still welcome to stay and be kind and encourage others to do so. I can at least say for myself we've not had bad interactions together.
Wait, why are you leaving?
Goodbye stranger. I don't know your story, but I'm sad to see you felt unwelcome and I hope you find better out there.
Hey stranger I don't think we interacted but I nudge you to explain just a bit more before you leave so you don't leave all of us in suspense. :) But if not, good luck on your journey!
Well, this is disappointing. I’ve seen a few people say they’re leaving since Deimos’ announcement that tildes development is done. For me Tildes is its community, not its ongoing development. If everyone making an impact leaves, then yeah, it’s over.
That said, I understand being told nothing will change in the face of growing enmity between users over social issues is demoralizing. You’re not wrong to want to move on. I just wish yall would stay.
Question: Can Tildes not allow any new users at this point?