89 votes

Daily Tildes discussion - quality concerns

Yesterday we had quite a few topics posted in ~tildes related to "fluff" content and some similar topics. Today I want to talk about a few related things, and some changes that I'm planning to make in the near future.

Not a reddit replacement

First, something I obviously haven't done a very good job of making clear (and needs to be added to the FAQ) is that Tildes really isn't intended to be a replacement for reddit. It's not my goal to have most people want to move here away from reddit. The goal is much closer to a complement—reddit is making a lot of choices to prioritize "quick entertainment" content, often at the expense of more in-depth content and discussions.

Reddit wants to prioritize that kind of content because it works better for the business goals they have. "Fluff" content attracts the most users, and supports showing far more ads. You can show a lot of (in-line) ads to someone skimming down through hundreds of cat pictures, but you can't really show any to someone that spends an hour having an in-depth discussion inside a single post. So naturally they're going to prioritize quick content—it brings them more users, and directly makes them a lot more money.

Tildes doesn't have the same incentives, so my goal is to be a better home for that in-depth content that's slowly getting pushed out. Reddit can keep the fluff. It's going to be better at it than Tildes ever will be anyway, due to displaying images and autoplaying gifs in-line, and many other design choices they're making to prioritize that type of content.

Concerns about current quality, and some changes

That being said, even though we're really not getting image posts or anything similar yet, we have been getting a lot of "what's your favorite?" type threads, which are especially prominent due to the default activity sort. For example, if I look at what a new user on Tildes would see right now, in the first 20 posts we have:

  • Favorite desktop environment for Arch?
  • Name the online accomplishment you are most proud of
  • What upcoming video games are you looking forward to?
  • What are some TV shows you find yourself constant rewatching?
  • Here's an idea. Comment something really unique (in a good or a bad way) and relatively unknown about a place you're living in or lived in.
  • Name a cool, mostly unknown feature of your OS of choice
  • What are the most influential books to you?
  • What's everyone's favorite movie?
  • So, what have you been working on?

And a few more that are similar as well. None of these are bad topics at all (especially the ones in ~talk where that should be expected), but they're pretty much all just "casual discussion" and not really what I'd consider particularly high-quality content. I don't want to discourage these or start removing them or anything, but I do think we probably need some changes to make them less prominent (or at least easily avoidable if people don't want to see that type of topic right now).

So here's my plans for the short term (all three should happen today, I think):

  1. Implement filtering for topic tags - I have a basic version of this almost done now, which will allow people to set up a (global) list of tags, where any posts with any of those tags will be filtered out of their view. There's a "show unfiltered" toggle as well that allows you to easily see everything.
  2. I'll start editing tags on other people's posts and/or giving other users the ability to do this. Primarily, all "what's your favorite?" type topics should have a common tag so that they can all be filtered easily. I'm thinking "ask" or "survey" or something similar, suggestions are welcome.
  3. Allow users to set their default sorting method for the home page and individual groups, and then probably change the default away from "activity".

Let me know what you think of these plans, or if there's anything else you think we should consider doing.

136 comments

  1. [11]
    cfabbro (edited ) Link
    Creating a ~talk.casual (and/or ~talk.ask) and ~talk.serious could also help with this issues as well, so those of us not interested in the casual chitchat can just subscribe to ~talk.serious. I...

    Creating a ~talk.casual (and/or ~talk.ask) and ~talk.serious could also help with this issues as well, so those of us not interested in the casual chitchat can just subscribe to ~talk.serious.

    I think ~talk is already potentially active enough to justify subgroups and while filtering is nice (letting us ignore casual chichat topics in other groups), I think casual and serious each having their own ~talk subgroup might encourage more serious discussions from being created since they wont be competing as directly with the casual ones anymore.

    59 votes
    1. [2]
      woop Link Parent
      I think this is a perfect solution. There's already a ~talk, so creating the ask, casual, and serious subgroups would allow people to filter out banter while still keeping the potential for...

      I think this is a perfect solution. There's already a ~talk, so creating the ask, casual, and serious subgroups would allow people to filter out banter while still keeping the potential for in-depth discussions.

      17 votes
      1. tan Link Parent
        A perfect solution to the dilution of ~talk topics, maybe, but it wouldn't solve the fluff topics coming up in other groups. Fluff comes up in every community, and I think it makes sense to keep...

        A perfect solution to the dilution of ~talk topics, maybe, but it wouldn't solve the fluff topics coming up in other groups. Fluff comes up in every community, and I think it makes sense to keep it there and tag it than to move it to talk.ask.subgroup.
        There is also the approach of having a culture that doesn't support super-fluffy threads in the first place, too.

        11 votes
    2. [2]
      Soptik Link Parent
      I strongly agree with this, creating ~talk.casual and ~talk.serious would solve the problem and I think it's more elegant than filtering. The problem may be lack of threads in ~talk.serious, but I...

      I strongly agree with this, creating ~talk.casual and ~talk.serious would solve the problem and I think it's more elegant than filtering. The problem may be lack of threads in ~talk.serious, but I think, it'll fix itself very soon.

      12 votes
      1. woop Link Parent
        I agree with your idea on elegance. Having two separate subgroups does so much more for the cohesion of a site than filtering. I feel that filtering would make for a more "individualized"...

        I agree with your idea on elegance. Having two separate subgroups does so much more for the cohesion of a site than filtering. I feel that filtering would make for a more "individualized" experience, so to speak, which doesn't help to foster real discussion, imo.

        5 votes
    3. [3]
      Pilgrim Link Parent
      I think this is better than @Deimos' tag idea (no offense). Tags will be useful but I don't like the idea of having to remember to tag a post for a specific thing. That sounds too much like the...

      I think this is better than @Deimos' tag idea (no offense). Tags will be useful but I don't like the idea of having to remember to tag a post for a specific thing. That sounds too much like the sub-specific reddit posting guidelines that always, always, trip me up.

      9 votes
      1. [2]
        Deimos Link Parent
        It solves a different problem than tagging. It wouldn't help at all with all the "what's your favorite [blank]?" topics that are coming up in ~games, ~movies, ~books, and more. You shouldn't need...

        It solves a different problem than tagging. It wouldn't help at all with all the "what's your favorite [blank]?" topics that are coming up in ~games, ~movies, ~books, and more.

        I don't like the idea of having to remember to tag a post for a specific thing

        You shouldn't need to. Other people can fix it for you if you don't tag correctly.

        22 votes
        1. Pilgrim Link Parent
          Thank you for the response. I read some more about how the sub-tildes would bubble up to the main tildes and so now I understand a bit better; ~talk.casual and ~talk.serious would both end up...

          Thank you for the response. I read some more about how the sub-tildes would bubble up to the main tildes and so now I understand a bit better; ~talk.casual and ~talk.serious would both end up showing up in ~talk.

          1 vote
    4. Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
      I think Deimos' filtering suggestion already goes partway toward addressing this problem. If there was a tag for "casual" and a tag for "serious", then allowing users to filter out all posts with...

      I think Deimos' filtering suggestion already goes partway toward addressing this problem. If there was a tag for "casual" and a tag for "serious", then allowing users to filter out all posts with a "casual" tag would reduce the casual chit-chat posts they see on their front page.

      It's also a first step toward implementing subgroups for these tags.

      7 votes
    5. eeldam Link Parent
      subgroups will never solve this problem completely, since these sorts of posts aren't restricted to a single group / subject matter. A topic titled "What's your favorite video game?" makes more...

      subgroups will never solve this problem completely, since these sorts of posts aren't restricted to a single group / subject matter. A topic titled "What's your favorite video game?" makes more sense in ~games than it does in ~talk, so you'd end up needing to duplicate the same pattern in basically every group (e.g. ~games.serious, ~games.casual).

      The problem gets worse when groups have their own subgroups – where does a question like "What's your favorite RTS game?" go? In ~games.casual, or ~games.rts? Or ~games.rts.casual?

      Doing this with topic tags ends up solving the problem in a much cleaner way, since any topic can just have the same casual tag (or whatever) and people can easily filter out all of that kind of content without having to do a lot of micromanaging of their group subscriptions.

      7 votes
    6. nothis Link Parent
      Would be a nice early test for subgroups, actually, I like it.

      Would be a nice early test for subgroups, actually, I like it.

      3 votes
  2. [6]
    burntcookie90 Link
    This is a great distinction to be made, and should be made aware before the community sees it's first actual major influx of users. I think marking all those topics with [ask] makes sense. They're...

    Not a reddit replacement

    This is a great distinction to be made, and should be made aware before the community sees it's first actual major influx of users.

    I think marking all those topics with [ask] makes sense. They're not un-important topics, per se, but they're just less involved. It's good to have on the site, but would be a tag/topic that I would choose to check out, vs having show up on front page.

    46 votes
    1. [5]
      gksu Link Parent
      Agreed about it being 'not a reddit replacement', but there's got to be a short, marketable phrase to explain what Tildes is. Perhaps something like 'Tildes is the place for friendly,...

      Agreed about it being 'not a reddit replacement', but there's got to be a short, marketable phrase to explain what Tildes is. Perhaps something like 'Tildes is the place for friendly, comprehensive, and abundant, conversation.'

      I don't want to clutter the site, but maybe a short line to that effect at the bottom along with the non-profit and donation message?

      22 votes
      1. [4]
        Pikatu Link Parent
        Would patreon work for something like this? Or would that not be enough for server upkeep? I'm not sure what the best method of monetizing something this large. Somethingawfuls forums were pretty...

        Would patreon work for something like this? Or would that not be enough for server upkeep? I'm not sure what the best method of monetizing something this large. Somethingawfuls forums were pretty good but required a fee to join. This definitely hampered their membership though, but increased quality of posts..

        4 votes
  3. [5]
    EightRoundsRapid Link
    Thank you for emphasising the "not a reddit replacement" aspect. I was starting to get a bit annoyed by the number of ideas and suggestions I keep seeing to duplicate/mimic reddit things.

    Thank you for emphasising the "not a reddit replacement" aspect.

    I was starting to get a bit annoyed by the number of ideas and suggestions I keep seeing to duplicate/mimic reddit things.

    41 votes
    1. [2]
      tomf Link Parent
      I agree that there are a lot, but reddit does do some things really well, just like how HN also does a lot of things really well.

      I agree that there are a lot, but reddit does do some things really well, just like how HN also does a lot of things really well.

      18 votes
      1. Baldemoto Link Parent
        Yeah, we shouldn't disregard everything that Reddit does in an attempt to be different, but at the same time, we shouldn't replicate everything Reddit does to their platform. It should really be...

        Yeah, we shouldn't disregard everything that Reddit does in an attempt to be different, but at the same time, we shouldn't replicate everything Reddit does to their platform. It should really be discussed on a case-by-case basis.

        15 votes
    2. [2]
      TonyQuark Link Parent
      I thought that was particularly well said. Unlike a certain other website with a goat as a logo that frantically tries to deny it's a Reddit clone, while trying to be one, the purpose behind...

      I thought that was particularly well said. Unlike a certain other website with a goat as a logo that frantically tries to deny it's a Reddit clone, while trying to be one, the purpose behind Tildes seems more thought through. And especially the groups and sub-groups are a good way of organizing.

      (Hi ERR! :))

      4 votes
      1. EightRoundsRapid Link Parent
        Yeah, I'm not here for a Reddit replacement/carbon copy. I'm here for a different experience. A more thoughtful, less frenetic and hostile place that functions differently.

        Yeah, I'm not here for a Reddit replacement/carbon copy. I'm here for a different experience. A more thoughtful, less frenetic and hostile place that functions differently.

        6 votes
  4. [8]
    SaucedButLeaking Link
    Part of this may be the size of the userbase. We're still new, and still figuring out how to talk to each other. The culture has not yet developed. However, that means that now is the time for an...

    Part of this may be the size of the userbase. We're still new, and still figuring out how to talk to each other. The culture has not yet developed.

    However, that means that now is the time for an ounce of prevention. Tagging and tag-filtering may be a good solution for this, but without trust does that mean moderators for the time being?

    37 votes
    1. [5]
      CALICO Link Parent
      I think this is part of it for sure. I was here at 150 users, and there wasn't much posting or discussion going on at all. Tildes was more a blank slate, and people weren't fully sure how they...

      I think this is part of it for sure.
      I was here at 150 users, and there wasn't much posting or discussion going on at all. Tildes was more a blank slate, and people weren't fully sure how they wanted to engage with the site yet. Now as we approach 3,000 users, we're in the second hour of the date. We've moved on from some of the awkward small talk, and we're starting to learn how to communicate within this framework. We're still talking surface level on a bunch of things, but that's part of becoming comfortable with a new person (or internet community). As these discussions continue we'll start to have a better picture of the kinds of people we're talking to, and things can move on to deeper conversations.

      25 votes
      1. [2]
        cfabbro (edited ) Link Parent
        Hey, that's not true.... I was spamming the shit out of the place with articles to keep it from being totally empty and me, @amarok, @deimos and a few others were mostly alone in talking between...

        I was here at 150 users, and there wasn't much posting or discussion going on at all.

        Hey, that's not true.... I was spamming the shit out of the place with articles to keep it from being totally empty and me, @amarok, @deimos and a few others were mostly alone in talking between ourselves in almost every thread! ;)

        p.s. Thank God there is actual users here communicating with each other now though. :P

        19 votes
        1. CALICO Link Parent
          Fair! I submitted a few things myself just for the sake of having content on the page. But outside of the Daily Discussions there wasn't much in the way of conversation, not compared to now at...

          Fair! I submitted a few things myself just for the sake of having content on the page. But outside of the Daily Discussions there wasn't much in the way of conversation, not compared to now at least. Things have been moving in a pretty good direction so far, and I'm excited to see how the site culture changes over the next month. The atmosphere almost reminds me of some of the old BBS forums I used to waste my days on before Digg or Reddit.

          9 votes
      2. [2]
        Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
        We're dating? But I didn't dress up for this! I'm still in my sloppy old house clothes. Do I have to go shower & shave, and put on a nice shirt?

        we're in the second hour of the date.

        We're dating? But I didn't dress up for this! I'm still in my sloppy old house clothes. Do I have to go shower & shave, and put on a nice shirt?

        6 votes
        1. CALICO Link Parent
          What matters is that you feel comfortable.

          What matters is that you feel comfortable.

          6 votes
    2. glass_table_girl Link Parent
      As you said, the culture is still developing and, though the tags don't really filter yet, if people think that this is a good solution for the moment, we could just start leaving small reminders...

      As you said, the culture is still developing and, though the tags don't really filter yet, if people think that this is a good solution for the moment, we could just start leaving small reminders in new "ask" threads that next time, tag it. Then you follow up with your own response so you don't seem like a total patoot. (not you, royal... you?)

      5 votes
    3. crius Link Parent
      That was my thought as well. I asked for users to be able to tag other user's topic since quite some time but I've strongly believe it should be a crowd sourced thing. As for the comments, a tag...

      That was my thought as well.

      I asked for users to be able to tag other user's topic since quite some time but I've strongly believe it should be a crowd sourced thing.

      As for the comments, a tag shouldn't be even visible (or just slightly) unless it reaches a threshold calculated as a percent of the total activity on the topic.

      4 votes
  5. [13]
    glass_table_girl Link
    I think it's a good thing that we're having these sorts of discussions early on. While I'm figuring out where I fall on the [fluff] issue, something came up for me this morning while browsing...

    I think it's a good thing that we're having these sorts of discussions early on. While I'm figuring out where I fall on the [fluff] issue, something came up for me this morning while browsing reddit.

    As you pointed out, the topics that you used as an example are very much casual conversation. In a lot of fandom subreddits, especially during off-seasons if it's a TV show, you'll see more of this casual conversation or posts like, "[x character] appreciation thread." While these sorts of threads in and of themselves aren't necessarily fluff, they sometimes end up criticized as "low-effort content."

    What I want to talk about is how we as a community react to these sorts of topics.

    Because again, while these topics aren't necessarily in-depth discussion within the body text or ask, they have the potential to spur in-depth discussion. The thread I was looking at this morning led to a discussion of how fathers tend to be portrayed in a lot of media (dumb, aloof, or even straight up toxic) because we were celebrating the portrayal of a really well-done and well-meaning father figure.

    Unfortunately, sometimes this leads to reactions like... well, I'll just quote it:

    "Can we all just take a moment" posts are almost always the worst ones on this sub. Like people who come to this sub haven't seen the show or something so they need to be reminded every. Fucking. Day. Of something that is obvious. And why? Because posting something with thought and effort is too hard so you guys will just be karma whores knowing this sub can give less than a shit about what they re reading on a hiatus. It's pathetic.

    We've come here because we want to have meaningful discussions. But I don't think that this kind of comment leads to that—and is in fact antithetical to some of these core values of "treat others how you want to be treated." This sort of reaction serves as a distraction from meaningful conversation.

    So how can we, as a community culture, encourage each other to still have meaningful discussions in what may seem to be low-effort content respectfully? And have it serve as an example of the kind of content that's encouraged on here so that folks can follow that example?

    To start, I guess something that I see very much plays into that last question: Rather than complain about low-effort content, be the creator of that content you want to see. Ask questions within topics that probe further.

    18 votes
    1. [12]
      Deimos Link Parent
      I think a lot of the reason you get such people reacting with that level of, uh... frustration is because there aren't good tools for filtering. From that user's perspective, the casual post took...

      I think a lot of the reason you get such people reacting with that level of, uh... frustration is because there aren't good tools for filtering. From that user's perspective, the casual post took up space that they think it didn't "deserve". But I'm sure lots of other users were enjoying it and having a good discussion anyway. That's an inherent conflict you can't really solve, people with different ideas of what constitutes "good content" are forced to share the same space.

      That's where I think we can do a lot better, and a lot of the reason why I wanted to have a good tagging system with filtering, subgroups, and so on.

      19 votes
      1. [4]
        Kraetos Link Parent
        Here's a really important feature that would facilitate this, that reddit completely lacks: the ability to move a topic from one subforum to another one. So I run a "serious discussion" subreddit...

        That's an inherent conflict you can't really solve, people with different ideas of what constitutes "good content" are forced to share the same space.

        Here's a really important feature that would facilitate this, that reddit completely lacks: the ability to move a topic from one subforum to another one.

        So I run a "serious discussion" subreddit and one of the aspects I like least about running it is dealing with people who post not-serious discussion but bear no ill intent. I remove this kind of content when I see it and occasionally warn repeat offenders, but boy do I sometimes feel like a pompous douchebag in the process. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's necessary: the sub would be totally overrun with fluff if we weren't strict about it, but the larger and fluffier reddit gets the more time consuming it is to enforce this rule and the more pushback this rule receives.

        Reddit's mod tools are a collection of rubber hammers: they are neither precise nor subtle. In theory, yes, I can remove a post and recommend OP post it in a more appropriate sister subreddit. When I've seen the suggestion come up in /r/ideasfortheadmins and similar subreddit, this is always what gets recommended: "just remove it and tell OP to repost it, what's the big deal?" But this completely ignores the human factor, the completely normal feeling of 😔when a mod removes your post, even if the mod is friendly, even if the mod makes a suggestion about where to move it.

        As always the devil is in the details. Does a mod need OPs consent to move a post? In practice mods would just remove posts where OP doesn't consent to the move, but maybe that's better than letting the mod do it unilaterally. What about mods of the target subreddit? Do they need to consent? Can posts only be moved "downtree?" Can Tildes in unrelated trees move posts if they set up some kind of "partner" system? Would post moving become a form of trolling? All of this would need to be thought about, but none of this is unresolvable, and a system like this seems to be necessary if you want to be able ensure content gets to the most appropriate venue without seeming unwelcoming to newcomers.

        18 votes
        1. glass_table_girl Link Parent
          Yes, absolutely agree with this, as someone who tries to be that very friendly mod. There have been so many times when I've seen really great content go unseen because OP doesn't want to repost it...

          "just remove it and tell OP to repost it, what's the big deal?" But this completely ignores the human factor, the completely normal feeling of 😔when a mod removes your post, even if the mod is friendly, even if the mod makes a suggestion about where to move it.

          Yes, absolutely agree with this, as someone who tries to be that very friendly mod. There have been so many times when I've seen really great content go unseen because OP doesn't want to repost it (but alas, they must per our rules!). I'm trying to think about what sort of cognitive bias causes this.

          I'd be reluctant, personally, to move someone's post without their permission, depending on the context. Obviously, ideally mods or trusted users of one community would be in conversation with other ones so that there is ahem trust built between the parties to make the right decision.

          11 votes
        2. [2]
          eeldam Link Parent
          I don't think moving a post in reddit makes sense the way it's designed – subreddits are individual communities run by separate groups of moderators. What happens if subreddit A mods think a post...

          I don't think moving a post in reddit makes sense the way it's designed – subreddits are individual communities run by separate groups of moderators. What happens if subreddit A mods think a post belongs in subreddit B, but subreddit B mods think the post belongs in subreddit A? What if there are a dozen subreddits that a post could belong in. What if the user is banned in the "right" subreddit, or doesn't wan't to post there, etc.

          I'm not saying the experience on reddit is good, it's just that reddit is more of a collection of communities. Tildes is currently much more structured – groups can't be created by anyone, so there is essentially a "right" place for everything. There aren't separate moderators for each group, so there's no conflict there either. I think moving topics could work here as the site is now, but not really on reddit as it is now. The right solution for reddit is probably more on the proactive side (keeping people from submitting to the wrong subreddit in the first place with things like submit-time validation and community recommendations) vs reactive (moving the post after the fact).

          4 votes
          1. Kraetos Link Parent
            It could work, but it would have to be built on a mutual permission system. Subreddit B mods would need to have a standing agreement with Subreddit A mods that they are willing to accept posts...

            It could work, but it would have to be built on a mutual permission system. Subreddit B mods would need to have a standing agreement with Subreddit A mods that they are willing to accept posts from Subreddit A. It would be a lot of work that the Reddit staff has neither the inclination nor resources to undertake.

            4 votes
      2. [4]
        glass_table_girl Link Parent
        lol I haven't thought of it from the mechanics point of view, and I think you're right, that filtering and giving people choices to see the content they want would definitely help with that. (The...

        uh... frustration

        lol

        I haven't thought of it from the mechanics point of view, and I think you're right, that filtering and giving people choices to see the content they want would definitely help with that. (The other part of why that comment frustrates me in that context is, to quote Thumper from Bambi: "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin at all.")

        My question would then be in line with some of the questions in this thread, then: Would there be a set of formal guidelines for what constitutes as high-quality enough to not warrant the tag? Or is this just some ideas around these sorts of survey questions at the moment? (I kind of like "survey" more than "ask," fwiw. I think that "ask" can end up being broad and very in-depth, like with AskReddit, whereas "survey" has more of that high-level connotation.)

        6 votes
        1. [3]
          Deimos Link Parent
          I really don't know, and that's probably the sort of thing that will need to evolve along with the site/community. One thought that comes to mind is that we've talked a bit about a very limited...

          Would there be a set of formal guidelines for what constitutes as high-quality enough to not warrant the tag?

          I really don't know, and that's probably the sort of thing that will need to evolve along with the site/community. One thought that comes to mind is that we've talked a bit about a very limited "exemplary vote" that trusted users would be able to use for posts or comments they think are exceptionally high quality. We could potentially allow users to set up something like "override my filter on ask if it gets an exemplary vote".

          6 votes
          1. glass_table_girl Link Parent
            In my anecdotal experience, having things like "exemplary votes" or ways to showcase good content serve as a good way to reward in-depth discussion, exemplify it for others to emulate and thus...

            In my anecdotal experience, having things like "exemplary votes" or ways to showcase good content serve as a good way to reward in-depth discussion, exemplify it for others to emulate and thus stimulate discussion. It sort of serves as an incentive for people to want to also get that "exemplary vote."

            Carrots and sticks, so difficult.

            4 votes
          2. Stone-D Link Parent
            I like this, and I'd also like to suggest "or surpasses [user_defined] votes." for each filter the user has.

            We could potentially allow users to set up something like "override my filter on ask if it gets an exemplary vote".

            I like this, and I'd also like to suggest "or surpasses [user_defined] votes." for each filter the user has.

            3 votes
      3. bee Link Parent
        I also think it clutters up the sub-tilde(?) or subreddit and discourages serious posts. I'm less likely to post a serious article/blog post on /r/programming when I see the amount of posts along...

        I also think it clutters up the sub-tilde(?) or subreddit and discourages serious posts. I'm less likely to post a serious article/blog post on /r/programming when I see the amount of posts along the lines of:

        How do I do extremely specific thing with thing??

        This would most likely be classified as spam, however I feel this also applies with fluff posts. AskReddit has a serious tag for a reason, but I would like most posts on ~ to be assumed serious. This is the problem with fluff, in my opinion.

        5 votes
      4. zowesiouff Link Parent
        if filtering outside of subscribed/unsubscribed from a ~ happens, I'd be curious to see the % of users actually actively use it. It seems like a very power-user kind of thing to have. I'm not sure...

        if filtering outside of subscribed/unsubscribed from a ~ happens, I'd be curious to see the % of users actually actively use it. It seems like a very power-user kind of thing to have. I'm not sure I have a better idea to tackle this issue though.

        2 votes
      5. nothis Link Parent
        Just letting people tag stuff as "fluff" should be a great start. I just wonder about how to tune the filtering. Imagine some borderline "fluff" content that could still be interpreted as worthy...

        Just letting people tag stuff as "fluff" should be a great start. I just wonder about how to tune the filtering. Imagine some borderline "fluff" content that could still be interpreted as worthy discussion based on how you look at it. Someone tags it "fluff", now it disappears forever for everyone who wanted to opt out of "fluffy" content. Would there be some weight to how many people tagged it fluff, who the people were, people tagging it "good discussion" outweighing a few "fluff" tags, etc, etc?

        I guess I'm just curious about the concrete implementation, it seems like there's suddenly so many options once we don't have to settle on "welp, reddit doesn't let you do that" and it makes you wonder.

        2 votes
  6. [10]
    Luca Link
    I wouldn't necessarily consider casual discussion and high quality content to be mutually exclusive. A lot of those threads are pretty broad, but have some great discussion going on inside about...

    I wouldn't necessarily consider casual discussion and high quality content to be mutually exclusive. A lot of those threads are pretty broad, but have some great discussion going on inside about some of the answers.

    I like the idea of filters+tags, though. Giving the user more control over what they do and don't see is never a bad thing.

    17 votes
    1. [6]
      Deimos Link Parent
      Absolutely, we should have both. But I think it's already becoming clear that we'll need tools so that people can choose when they want to see each type.

      Absolutely, we should have both. But I think it's already becoming clear that we'll need tools so that people can choose when they want to see each type.

      12 votes
      1. [5]
        dodger Link Parent
        Really enjoying ~ for both the serious, casual, and especially lack of BS content. I like that I'm currently exposed to both serious and casual message boards right from the beginning. I hope we...

        Really enjoying ~ for both the serious, casual, and especially lack of BS content. I like that I'm currently exposed to both serious and casual message boards right from the beginning. I hope we can continue that with the option of filtering for specific content when desired. Again there's the problem with how to moderate the tags: votes? trust? moderation? I like the trust model, but maybe it can be something that's fluid, regressive, or term-limited in some way?

        7 votes
        1. [4]
          Water Link Parent
          Sometimes though, I think even in casual conversation it may split off into a deep dive on a topic when someone feels passionate about it. Conversations ebb and flow. What would happen if someone...

          Sometimes though, I think even in casual conversation it may split off into a deep dive on a topic when someone feels passionate about it. Conversations ebb and flow. What would happen if someone casually asks a question but a qualified person comes along and gives an amazing in-depth answer? I can see thread-splitting and meta discussions on the rise until something more formal is introduced or ironed out.

          7 votes
          1. [3]
            Zeerph Link Parent
            Here's an idea, of which I do not know the viability. In-post or in-thread tags that can be seen as topics in other groups. I will use an example: "What are the things that most people miss when...

            Here's an idea, of which I do not know the viability.
            In-post or in-thread tags that can be seen as topics in other groups.
            I will use an example:
            "What are the things that most people miss when going through education?" tagged as casual and/or is in ~talk.casual
            Most responses are casual
            Then you get a very detailed response that discusses many different aspects and is rather on the serious side of things.
            Perhaps that thread can be tagged as serious enough times and thus automatically linked in the ~talk.serious group. (And maybe can be safely ignored by those filtering out serious topics)
            That way it increases visibility and helps add more people to that specific conversation, who otherwise may have missed it.

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              Water Link Parent
              That's an interesting thought. I'm not a programmer myself either so I can't vouch for viability. However, would the original people in that thread, who thought they were signing up for casual...

              That's an interesting thought. I'm not a programmer myself either so I can't vouch for viability.

              However, would the original people in that thread, who thought they were signing up for casual talk be dissuaded because now it's in ~talk.serious?

              Or is there a way for the post itself to become a new thread on ~talk.serious, so that further discussions can be there without impinging on the original conversation? It brings into questions about context and thread-jacking variables once the categories start moving around.

              I'm sure there's smarter people than me who must have thought of these dilemmas.

              2 votes
              1. Zeerph Link Parent
                I would say that threads can be fluid (why not?). If something is tagged enough as something else it can get posted in another group, but I think it should stay in the original post, just for...

                I would say that threads can be fluid (why not?). If something is tagged enough as something else it can get posted in another group, but I think it should stay in the original post, just for continuities sake, if anything.

                4 votes
    2. [3]
      glass_table_girl Link Parent
      Maybe we can start by asking users in some of these recommendation threads and such to elaborate more on the "why" of their love for something.

      Maybe we can start by asking users in some of these recommendation threads and such to elaborate more on the "why" of their love for something.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        cfabbro Link Parent
        Yeah, "DAE do/like this?" may be a good seed for discussion but putting a little more effort in the initial question/topic to add immediate value isn't that much to ask, IMO.

        Yeah, "DAE do/like this?" may be a good seed for discussion but putting a little more effort in the initial question/topic to add immediate value isn't that much to ask, IMO.

        5 votes
        1. glass_table_girl Link Parent
          Yeah, in the OP but also in the responses if it isn't built in so as to create that social proof.

          Yeah, in the OP but also in the responses if it isn't built in so as to create that social proof.

          3 votes
  7. [6]
    Zlyme Link
    I feel like the only one confused... what would be ideal things to post then?

    I feel like the only one confused... what would be ideal things to post then?

    12 votes
    1. [5]
      Zeerph Link Parent
      I don't think @Deimos is saying that everyone should only post a certain kind of content, more that much of the current topics posted aren't relevant to people who want more interesting, in depth...

      I don't think @Deimos is saying that everyone should only post a certain kind of content, more that much of the current topics posted aren't relevant to people who want more interesting, in depth discussion. And that they can't be filtered out, so it's all that is seen, and thus limits activity of those who'd prefer something different.

      10 votes
      1. [4]
        Zlyme Link Parent
        OK so what would be an example of a more interesting post?

        OK so what would be an example of a more interesting post?

        3 votes
        1. Zeerph Link Parent
          At least for me, an interesting post poses a question that I would like to think about, know more about, or read the opinions of others. For example: "Why are so many people afraid of an AI...

          At least for me, an interesting post poses a question that I would like to think about, know more about, or read the opinions of others.
          For example: "Why are so many people afraid of an AI revolution?"
          Or
          "With current population stress in many areas, is it a good idea to keep increasing our impact on the world?"
          Or
          "How does American exceptionalism affect education in the country?"

          9 votes
        2. [2]
          Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
          An open-ended question, rather than a closed-ended question. Closed-ended questions like "What's your favourite X?" tend to produce answers that are simple lists of names. There's not always a lot...

          what would be an example of a more interesting post?

          An open-ended question, rather than a closed-ended question.

          Closed-ended questions like "What's your favourite X?" tend to produce answers that are simple lists of names. There's not always a lot there for other people to engage with.

          An open-ended question, by its very nature, should discourage simple answers like that. It will produce opinions and thoughtful answers which provide a lot more material for other people to engage with.

          Examples of Open-Ended and Closed-Ended Questions

          9 votes
          1. SpaceCowBoi Link Parent
            They should have a sort option for longer averagecomment threads. I think that would be most effective for searching for in depth conversation while tagging is still in development

            They should have a sort option for longer averagecomment threads. I think that would be most effective for searching for in depth conversation while tagging is still in development

            1 vote
  8. [3]
    BuckeyeSundae (edited ) Link
    This is a topic that is fundamental to my love for the site and community, and I have been working rather consistently to try to keep injecting some meaningful discussion into an otherwise...

    This is a topic that is fundamental to my love for the site and community, and I have been working rather consistently to try to keep injecting some meaningful discussion into an otherwise survey-dominated ~talk.

    Just some examples for those who haven't noticed or may have joined since seeing most of these:

    And my one, sole "survey" question:

    Let it not ever be said that I have not tried to make this place the hub for in-depth discussion I wanted to see. This is despite being told that politics discussions must always devolve into discord, madness or drama, among other disheartening threads discouraging political discussion content.


    I'm going to spend some time talking about behavioral science theory now, especially concepts of choice architecture and nudging people toward making the decisions you want them to make.

    All Structures Encourage Some Reaction Over Another

    No matter what we choose, we will be encouraging one type of behavior over another. So let's discard from the get-go the comfortable idea that we should not be making a choice of some sort that encourages people to dive deep into threads. Some run-downs on the biases we're likely to see with each of the currently available default styles of sorting:

    • Activity - This sorting method sorts for controversy, as some others have noted in other discussions (though sorry to have forgotten who and where). Threads that are more recently active will self-sort higher in the order. This will encourage users--as we are seeing--to frame discussions and threads in the way that will seem to get the largest reaction, even if that might not ultimately be the most rewarding way to frame debate. There is always a steady stream of content in this order, and you will always know what is most recently getting the views, but the bias is toward broadly applicable, generalized controversy.
    • Most Votes - This sorting method sorts for what lurkers most highly value (which is quick, compelling solely from a title that is often vague clickbait, and often emotionally resonant). I think that demographics survey pretty well established that we are all roughly familiar with Reddit's failings. This method, with no other tools available, will lend itself toward encouraging fluff.
    • Most Comments - This sorting method is like Activity on steroids. Instead of sorting for the most recently commented on, this method would sort for the largest discussion chains. That may give you more reading material if the comments are all long, but it's basically just a numbers game.
    • Newest - This sorting method is like most votes, but on steroids. That is because you don't ever get to see (except in the rarest, usually low-traffic circumstances) a fully formed debate about anything. This sorting method is all about the drive to be the newest and to have your few seconds of fame before falling into the unknowable dustbin of several pages deep of pre-paginated, unsearchable horror. At scale, to survive with any lasting impact on the minds of users, you have to compel them to immediately respond and engage in the content, which is an even heavier drive toward fluff than votes alone would be.

    So it's clear that none of the currently available sorting methods are sufficient for anything getting close to the behavior we want to encourage. We need some structural change to get closer. But what sort of structural change might get us there?

    1. Users Need To Be Able To Hide Uninteresting Content

    This is something you've already touched on, @Deimos, with filtering by tags, but this needs to be possible at every meaningful level. That means both the ability to hide content at the submission and comment level too. You will need some way to tell the user how many threads are hidden on a given page (a little notice at the top or bottom perhaps would do saying "there are X threads hidden on this page"), especially because that gives the user a meaningful opportunity to unhide a thread or to see what trash they're ignoring right now. (edit: It would also be important to give a summary of how many comments are hidden in a particular comment chain, and maybe even whether there are any new comments in that chain). That lets the user audit for themselves how effective their choice architecture is at getting them closer to the tildes experience they want to have.

    2. Users Need To Be Able To Save Interesting Content

    This is surprisingly NOT something I see being touched on prominently, even though it is the other side of the same coin. Suppose you have a thread, maybe one of those that I linked earlier. Let's say that thread about Trade Wars. This thread promises to be very interesting, but there's no discussion in it right now and you don't really have anything to add to it. It might have a fairly slow pace of discussion, and so you as a user want to keep appraised of discussion developments in that thread. Well, why not follow it! Right now there is no tool available to follow threads that interest a user.

    This in a lot of ways would allow users to treat a thread as if they themselves were the OP (without actually being the OP). Maybe all top-level comments would go to a following user's inbox. Maybe a little notice would pop up saying "A thread you're following has new replies!" Boy, that would be exciting!

    This would let users have an opportunity (again) to curate their own experience to the type they most want to have. Users who are looking for in-depth conversations about wonky shit might have a highly curated inbox telling them of all sorts of fun discussions happening that users who are looking for more casual conversation don't get. That's okay. The point is to let users have the experience that most matches their own interests.

    The whole point about none of these default sorting methods being great is all about the discovery process for finding good content and what that discovery process encourages. An option to save interesting content once you've found it lets users remember more of the good discussions they found most meaningful.

    3. Users Need To Be Able To Learn From Other People's Choices

    Okay, so now we have tools that let users hide content and save content. BUT, what about that whole discovery process? What about a sorting method that is based on how many people have saved/followed a particular thread?

    Now, this is another way of saying "most votes," but its crucial distinction is that these are threads that users are actively following and getting messages on. So this isn't the one-and-done style of most-votes where people follow and forget about it. These are conversations that people are STILL finding to be valuable enough to follow. And for the sake of simplicity, we can keep the default to "most followed threads in the past 24 hours" or something. This should give a meaningful chance for in-depth discussions to be discoverable by people who are interested in finding that material.

    It should also have the side effect of allowing for there to be centralized survey threads, as those who are most interested in following the original introduction thread will help other people discover its existence, thus reducing some of the drive to keep making new threads when the old ones will still do fine.

    And maybe there's other ways to structure things to encourage meaningful discussion. This is all just a prototype that is intended to predate the bigger trust system we've all been sold on before joining. It should be easier to implement (because good lord, the mechanics involved for rep intimidate me still). And if I'm right about anything when it comes to choice architecture, it should be a more rewarding experience for users who opt into it.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      eladnarra Link Parent
      One thing that would help-- not just with encouraging meaningful discussion, but encouraging "civil" discussion-- is the ability to selectively mute replies or parts of a thread ("don't tell me...

      This is something you've already touched on, @Deimos, with filtering by tags, but this needs to be possible at every meaningful level. That means both the ability to hide content at the submission and comment level too.

      One thing that would help-- not just with encouraging meaningful discussion, but encouraging "civil" discussion-- is the ability to selectively mute replies or parts of a thread ("don't tell me about new comments here").

      A personal example: I started an unfortunate shitshow with an offtopic comment about language/slurs, and I realized I needed to step away to avoid continuing things. I still got a reply to my last few comments, though, which obviously turned up in my inbox. I managed to ignore them, but if I'd been more fired up (instead of confused and disappointed), that probably would have dragged me back into things. And I don't think that's the sort of thing people are aiming to foster here.

      More generally, I'm definitely in favor of systems that actively encourage certain forms of behavior. I also like the point that people need to be able to audit their experience, and I agree that a note of how many things are hidden would help. Perhaps a "remove filters" toggle, too, if there's some sort of filter panel eventually.

      4 votes
      1. BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
        Yeah, I think especially while we're small enough that people are overwhelmingly working hard to monitor their own behavior we should be looking to give users tools to continue to do so. Then,...

        Yeah, I think especially while we're small enough that people are overwhelmingly working hard to monitor their own behavior we should be looking to give users tools to continue to do so. Then, later on, we can revoke some of these tools and increase barriers to discussion for users who lose trust/rep in however that future system works. But I think seeing now as the tool-building time makes a lot of sense.

        3 votes
  9. [2]
    woop (edited ) Link
    I feel that a clarification on what you mean by "high quality content" could be beneficial. To echo some of the other sentiments I've seen here, a lot of the issue is that the community's culture...

    I feel that a clarification on what you mean by "high quality content" could be beneficial. To echo some of the other sentiments I've seen here, a lot of the issue is that the community's culture is still developing, and a lot of different people have different things tugging at them (desire for fluff, anti-fluff, what people consider in-depth discussion, etc). I see a lot of those favorites threads as a way of people trying to start a discussion, and with that comes the potential for the in-depth qualities that people want in ~.

    I think a tag system is great. The "ask" tag sounds like it could be a perfect solution, imo.

    10 votes
    1. eyehigh Link Parent
      Precisely this. It's far easier to start small talk then dive into a certain topic. "What's your favorite music to listen to when reading?" can return dozens of band names and artists, each with...

      Precisely this. It's far easier to start small talk then dive into a certain topic. "What's your favorite music to listen to when reading?" can return dozens of band names and artists, each with discussions of their works, recommendations of similar artists, interpretation of lyrics, and so on. That's one example off the top of my head. Other small questions can spiral into deeper talks, too.

      4 votes
  10. Axelia Link
    I think maybe people are more open to posting these broad, open-ended questions because the group categories are still fairly broad at the moment. It's possible people don't want to post a...

    I think maybe people are more open to posting these broad, open-ended questions because the group categories are still fairly broad at the moment. It's possible people don't want to post a specific discussion about how to optimally play a hero in Heroes of the Storm out of fear that nobody else here plays HOTS (to give an uncomfortably specific example <.< ). It's easier to just ask "hey what games does everyone play" to receive feedback about the type of audience you might have for future posts.

    9 votes
  11. gksu Link
    I think an "asktildes" tag would work for those types of threads. It's an outgrowth of the AskReddit types because they're text but easy and easily digestible. To me they're nice, but the in-depth...

    I think an "asktildes" tag would work for those types of threads. It's an outgrowth of the AskReddit types because they're text but easy and easily digestible. To me they're nice, but the in-depth discussion version of cake. Tasty, but not nutritious.

    8 votes
  12. [3]
    tan Link
    I'm really glad to see this message here - I was one of those concerned netizens. One point that came up in that thread was that HN's culture only works because its growth has not been anywhere...

    I'm really glad to see this message here - I was one of those concerned netizens.

    One point that came up in that thread was that HN's culture only works because its growth has not been anywhere near as fast as Reddit's, despite them being very close in age. What are your plans for the rate of Tildes' growth as we go on?

    The other big takeaway from that thread, for me, was that tagging can be an incredibly powerful system for tackling this problem. Hopefully we can see this soon (along with search, open sourcing, pagination, and all the other "high priority" issues :P)

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      Deimos Link Parent
      It'll probably stay invite-only for quite a while (I'm expecting months), which gives us pretty firm control of how fast we want it to grow. I'm sure that invites will become easier to get, and...

      What are your plans for the rate of Tildes' growth as we go on?

      It'll probably stay invite-only for quite a while (I'm expecting months), which gives us pretty firm control of how fast we want it to grow. I'm sure that invites will become easier to get, and we'll probably make the site publicly visible before too long (so that people can see if they even want an invite without having to get one), but there's a lot more stuff that needs to be in place before we can handle large, unpredictable influxes of users.

      8 votes
      1. tan Link Parent
        Agreed, and thanks for letting us know. Personally, I would err on the side of putting off open registration until the site and community are 100% definitely ready to handle it.

        Agreed, and thanks for letting us know. Personally, I would err on the side of putting off open registration until the site and community are 100% definitely ready to handle it.

        3 votes
  13. Algernon_Asimov Link
    Wow. This section reads almost exactly like the announcements that kraetos & us other founding moderators of /r/DaystromInstitute used to write when we were promoting our new subreddit as a...

    Not a reddit replacement

    Wow. This section reads almost exactly like the announcements that kraetos & us other founding moderators of /r/DaystromInstitute used to write when we were promoting our new subreddit as a break-away from /r/StarTrek. I feel ya, bro. (ew - did I just write that? haha) I understand exactly what you mean.

    Implement filtering for topic tags

    I'm absolutely in favour of this. As I said yesterday, there's very little point having tags if they don't provide some functionality. Using them as filters is a good move.

    I'll start editing tags on other people's posts and/or giving other users the ability to do this.

    Yep. This is a good step.

    Primarily, all "what's your favorite?" type topics should have a common tag so that they can all be filtered easily.

    Absolutely!

    Allow users to set their default sorting method for the home page and individual groups, and then probably change the default away from "activity".

    You gotta do what you gotta do. I have previously said I kind of like the "activity" sorting, but I've since observed that discussion posts are overshadowing link posts that don't prompt discussion. ~news is chock-full of interesting reading that rarely makes the front page because it's reading material that doesn't necessarily prompt people to post comments in the same way as "your favourite X" posts.

    6 votes
  14. meristele Link
    I always feel sort of useless in these daily issue threads, because all of this is so new to me. @BuckeyeSundae typically throws me in the deep end anyways, so here goes. ~creative.lite vs...

    I always feel sort of useless in these daily issue threads, because all of this is so new to me. @BuckeyeSundae typically throws me in the deep end anyways, so here goes.

    ~creative.lite vs ~creative.heavy looks a little different to me than other areas.

    Critiques sometimes seem like .lite content, because you get few responses. Part of it is how the request is written. The critique meta posts are finding that open ended context information attracts more critiquers. Too much context/closed presentations also gets few responses. Do FAQs work to educate new posters of successful conversation techniques? What about senpai/mentor relationships?

    Links to funky stuff like this seem like fluff. But it's also a needed part of creative growth to people. We get excited by seeing new things. Like books, it's hard to say what will move or inspire people. Do we need a corral like ~creative.inspiration to keep people from being annoyed if they're tired of too much funky stuff?

    Activity threads are also unpredictable. They depend heavily on time and emotional health for many posters. Sometimes one will fail simply because it's a holiday period or the population is too small yet. But activity threads like speedart, poetry jams, writing prompt contests and the like build a community faster than anything else in an artistic population.

    I think that in ~creative at least, it would be nice to have concrete category tags instead of subjective value tags. Then it would still be sortable to peoples' tastes each day without difficult judgement calls. The five I'd like in the beginning are Activity, For Critique, Inspiration, Socialising, and Theory/History (The curation, science, and societal impact portion.)

    Hopefully this makes sense. -_-

    6 votes
  15. [12]
    rkcr Link
    I'm not sure how exactly to solve this problem, but I'd like it if talk threads were in ~talk instead of being inside the related group. E.g., instead of "What's your favorite movie?" being in...

    I'm not sure how exactly to solve this problem, but I'd like it if talk threads were in ~talk instead of being inside the related group. E.g., instead of "What's your favorite movie?" being in ~movies, it would be in ~talk.

    5 votes
    1. [11]
      Deimos Link Parent
      Yeah, that's something I considered too - just moving all those type of threads to ~talk. I'm still open to it (and would like to hear opinions), but I decided that I think having it in the...

      Yeah, that's something I considered too - just moving all those type of threads to ~talk. I'm still open to it (and would like to hear opinions), but I decided that I think having it in the subject-specific places makes a bit more sense.

      For example, "Favorite desktop environment for Arch?" and "How do you manage your dotfiles?" are basically that topic type, but they're really not going to make much sense in ~talk compared to ~comp. So I think a tag that's the same across all groups probably makes more sense in the end.

      9 votes
      1. [4]
        Luca Link Parent
        I'm just spitballing here, so ignore this if it's stupid, but what about having a .talk sub-tilde for each tilde? That way, casual conversation can just go in there, while real content can get...

        I'm just spitballing here, so ignore this if it's stupid, but what about having a .talk sub-tilde for each tilde? That way, casual conversation can just go in there, while real content can get posted to the parent tilde?

        5 votes
        1. SaucedButLeaking Link Parent
          I see where you're going with it, but I think a filterable tag accomplishes the same thing without stymieing the talk section (which I'm not sure why, but I feel like a .talk sub would do)

          I see where you're going with it, but I think a filterable tag accomplishes the same thing without stymieing the talk section (which I'm not sure why, but I feel like a .talk sub would do)

          7 votes
      2. [3]
        rkcr Link Parent
        I think that ultimately, either we want: ~talk.subject ~subject.talk Or enforce tags + filtering.

        I think that ultimately, either we want:

        Or enforce tags + filtering.

        4 votes
        1. tildesatwindmills Link Parent
          Does it have to be either/or? Could talk.subject and subject.talk just mirror each other? That way the best posts bubble up to the tilde I read and I stay informed about the big things. Example:...

          Does it have to be either/or? Could talk.subject and subject.talk just mirror each other? That way the best posts bubble up to the tilde I read and I stay informed about the big things.

          Example: if I subscribe to ~talk but not ~comp, a post on ~comp.talk about the FBI wanting me to reboot my router actually shows up in ~talk and I get the info I need to check my router's security settings and reboot.

          7 votes
        2. eeldam Link Parent
          i think keeping the groups as describing the genre/subject matter (with subgroups getting more specific) and letting topic tags describe the format / type of the individual topic makes the most...

          i think keeping the groups as describing the genre/subject matter (with subgroups getting more specific) and letting topic tags describe the format / type of the individual topic makes the most sense, since those are often universal to subject matter. Things like casual, serious, ama, announcement, nsfw etc could apply anywhere. If these sorts of things were implemented as subgroups in every group, I'm not sure what the point of topic tags would even be.

          2 votes
      3. [3]
        woop Link Parent
        How about a .casual and a .serious tag for groups? For instance, games.serious could feature questions and articles about game development, current markets, etc, while games.casual would feature...

        How about a .casual and a .serious tag for groups? For instance, games.serious could feature questions and articles about game development, current markets, etc, while games.casual would feature the typical "low-hanging" questions you mention in your original post.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          Deimos Link Parent
          I think things don't split up that cleanly into two categories, and I'm sure different people have their own opinions about where the serious/casual line is. It's probably better to just try to...

          I think things don't split up that cleanly into two categories, and I'm sure different people have their own opinions about where the serious/casual line is. It's probably better to just try to tag things and let people make their own decisions about which tags they want to see or not.

          3 votes
          1. woop Link Parent
            Yeah, I can definitely see that stance, and I think that makes more sense. Thank you for clarifying.

            Yeah, I can definitely see that stance, and I think that makes more sense. Thank you for clarifying.

            1 vote
  16. tiz Link
    If possible I think there should be a way for the site to "suggest" tags on the submit topic page. Maybe certain popular ones for certain ~'s. Talk can have suggested tags like; ask, fun, fluff...

    If possible I think there should be a way for the site to "suggest" tags on the submit topic page. Maybe certain popular ones for certain ~'s. Talk can have suggested tags like; ask, fun, fluff etc. That way topics can be tagged correctly and in the future tags won't overlap other tags as much. Like one topic can be tagged as "ask" another as "survey" but they are essentially the same type of topic.

    But I never really used tags or hashtags before so idk really how they work.

    5 votes
  17. [18]
    insubstantial Link
    I came here for more serious discussion and less fluff. I've been wanting to participate less because of all the fluff that's being posted it honestly feels like we ARE back on Reddit and it's...

    I came here for more serious discussion and less fluff. I've been wanting to participate less because of all the fluff that's being posted it honestly feels like we ARE back on Reddit and it's starting to become suffocating.

    5 votes
    1. [16]
      Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
      Be the change you want to see in the website. If you want more serious discussion, then make it happen. Start posting!

      I came here for more serious discussion and less fluff. I

      Be the change you want to see in the website. If you want more serious discussion, then make it happen. Start posting!

      6 votes
      1. [15]
        BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
        I can't speak for @insubstantial, but this sort of reaction is disheartening to me. I do not think the structure right now encourages the type of discovery or memory of good discussion topics that...

        I can't speak for @insubstantial, but this sort of reaction is disheartening to me. I do not think the structure right now encourages the type of discovery or memory of good discussion topics that makes it so insubstantial's base concern is answerable by simply doing more rewarding discussion (as I just got done writing in detail).

        2 votes
        1. [7]
          Algernon_Asimov (edited ) Link Parent
          If someone is feeling "suffocated" by "all the fluff that's being posted", they can take matters into their own hands. If all the people who want high-quality discussion (and that's supposedly a...

          by simply doing more rewarding discussion

          If someone is feeling "suffocated" by "all the fluff that's being posted", they can take matters into their own hands. If all the people who want high-quality discussion (and that's supposedly a lot of us) started making posts to encourage that high-quality discussion (as you did before the latest influx of invitees), then there would be more high-quality discussion happening for people to participate in. It's even possible that the high-quality discussion would outweigh the fluff posts.

          But that can't possibly happen until more people make high-quality posts. Even if the site is changed structurally to highlight high-quality posts (as you suggest), that won't work if there are no high-quality posts to be highlighted.

          Even in the current limited system, it's possible for high-quality discussion to drown out fluff if we all choose to make it so. If we all vote for the high-quality posts and don't vote for the fluff, and participate in high-quality discussions and don't make fluffy comments, the site will be dominated by high-quality discussion, which is what a lot of us supposedly want.

          There's only so much a system can do on its own to highlight high-quality discussion without the help of users. It really does come down to "garbage in, garbage out".

          3 votes
          1. [6]
            BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
            As with many things, the best way forward has to be a bit of both, right? A little column A, posting higher quality content you want to see, and a little column B, better structures to encourage...

            As with many things, the best way forward has to be a bit of both, right? A little column A, posting higher quality content you want to see, and a little column B, better structures to encourage discovery of such content. I'm not saying that encouraging someone to post more high quality stuff is bad. As the standalone response? It's a little saddening.

            Like I (eventually) said to @Zeerph, this comment is almost exclusively about rhetoric, not substance. I don't think you're wrong (I've been doing what you suggest, how silly would that be?). I just think there's a better way to encourage other people to follow suit as a (partial) answer to their concerns.

            1 vote
            1. [5]
              Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
              I know from long experience that most people who complain about the lack of high-quality content on a website are sitting back, passively waiting for someone else to deliver that high-quality...

              I just think there's a better way to encourage other people to follow suit as a (partial) answer to their concerns.

              I know from long experience that most people who complain about the lack of high-quality content on a website are sitting back, passively waiting for someone else to deliver that high-quality content to them on a platter. They need a little reminder that they share some responsibility for the content on a website they're participating in.

              Sure, improving the system is a desirable outcome. However, we should all be very aware that this website is only just barely working. It's a pre-pre-release of an alpha testing product. It really does have only the bare minimum of features to operate as a link aggregator and discussion forum (post and vote - not much more than that). It will take months, even a year or more, before the website is fully functional. Deimos himself has said that he expects to keep Tildes invite-only for another year or so.

              Therefore, we can't sit back and let the system do the work for us. It won't have the right features and algorithms for weeks, even months. In the meantime, the only way to increase the level of high-quality discussion here is for users to post it.

              If we don't... if we allow the fluff to take over now... it will be impossible to change things later. A system can not change a culture once it's embedded. What we do now will influence the culture of this website for years to come. If people just sit back and complain about a lack of high-quality content, and leave it to others to provide that content, this website will be taken over by fluff before it even gets to public release - and it's all downhill from there.

              So, being the change you want to see in the website isn't just a hollow piece of rhetoric on my part. I've been involved as a creator or co-creator of two subreddits, and been an early moderator of a third subreddit (and been a subscriber to a few other start-up subreddits). I know how these things work. If you don't get the culture set up right in the first few months, you'll never get it back.

              2 votes
              1. [4]
                BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
                I'm sorry to be this blunt, but I can't think of another way to put it: your experience (which is considerable and impressive) doesn't help you persuade others if you're going to be lacking...

                I'm sorry to be this blunt, but I can't think of another way to put it: your experience (which is considerable and impressive) doesn't help you persuade others if you're going to be lacking empathy. If you're going to assume things about people who are voicing a concern, it should probably be to their benefits if you're looking to be effective.

                I don't think we disagree about what needs to be done on an individual level. We do seem to have a serious disagreement brewing about what's effective at persuading people to buy in and help out.

                I mean, this isn't my first moderating rodeo either, nor many of the people here (this is a disproportionately reddit mod-heavy community). I don't think it's appropriate for you to be assuming that the person you're responding to is just a regular user. It's pretty likely that you're talking to either a current or former moderator of reddit there. I also don't think the importance of setting up a good community culture immediately is so dire as you seem to (largely because my experience moderating comes from reforming online communities as much as setting them up), but that context does explain a bit of your tone. I don't think you've persuaded me that your rhetorical approach is necessary, but I'm glad that I at least understand it better.

                2 votes
                1. [3]
                  Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
                  Did you achieve those reforms by changing the features of the websites, or by changing people's behaviour?

                  my experience moderating comes from reforming online communities as much as setting them up

                  Did you achieve those reforms by changing the features of the websites, or by changing people's behaviour?

                  2 votes
                  1. [2]
                    BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
                    A bit of both, haha! One of the big challenges I was experiencing was exactly this problem of buy-in that I've been so focused on. Convincing people to buy-in by implementing changes that more...

                    A bit of both, haha!

                    One of the big challenges I was experiencing was exactly this problem of buy-in that I've been so focused on. Convincing people to buy-in by implementing changes that more easily responded to and integrated community feedback, while also spending considerable resources training people on how to be better community members.

                    3 votes
                    1. Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
                      Which is what I assumed. Thanks.

                      A bit of both, haha!

                      Which is what I assumed.

                      Thanks.

                      2 votes
        2. [7]
          Zeerph Link Parent
          I read you're other post, and I do agree that all those things need implementing, as they would make tildes so much easier and better to use. I think though, that because tildes is at the alpha...

          I read you're other post, and I do agree that all those things need implementing, as they would make tildes so much easier and better to use.

          I think though, that because tildes is at the alpha stage some of us have found it rather difficult to find content we want to consume, without first producing it. Now, that being said, I'm going to aim to post high quality discussions semi-regularly and see what happens.

          1 vote
          1. [6]
            BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
            Sure, and if that works for you great. The reason I find telling someone else to do the same discouraging is that they are, by their own admission, getting overwhelmed with the non-stimulating...

            Sure, and if that works for you great. The reason I find telling someone else to do the same discouraging is that they are, by their own admission, getting overwhelmed with the non-stimulating content and your answer speaks not even a little bit to that concern. The protest, at its core from what I can see, is about the feeling of overwhelming fluffness. I get that. Without a way to meaningfully hide content we don't want to see, that problem isn't addressable. That's the long and short of it. As long as there are new users, there will always be a push toward new users submitting fluff or reposts. That's way beyond your or this user's ability to address.

            So at one level, of course you should be the change you want to see (I spent the first third of that massive essay showing how I've been doing just that). But on another level, if you get no support, what's the point?

            1 vote
            1. [5]
              Zeerph Link Parent
              That's very true, however we're merely trying to combat the perceived lack of content with what tools we have available. And you'll have to forgive me, but I have mentioned lack of a hide option...

              That's very true, however we're merely trying to combat the perceived lack of content with what tools we have available.

              And you'll have to forgive me, but I have mentioned lack of a hide option elsewhere and was participating in other discussions about filtering. And at the time I didn't find that sort of topic particularly relevant or helpful to the other poster.

              Though when we get the filtering option I'll gladly be one of the first to use them and evangelise their use.

              2 votes
              1. [4]
                BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
                Hey, clearly whatever small sadness I felt reading that isn't putting me off from engaging constructive discussion. I totally get why you might not have thought talking about tools you'd like to...

                Hey, clearly whatever small sadness I felt reading that isn't putting me off from engaging constructive discussion. I totally get why you might not have thought talking about tools you'd like to see was really relevant to someone who was saying they were getting a bit overwhelmed by all the fluff they were seeing. I don't think anyone was uncivil at any point here, and certainly not intentionally saddening.

                All I wanted to do was express how, if I were in @insubstantial's shoes (which I kind of am), I would not really feel great being told to put my ass into gear to make the content I want to see. I'm super glad you're here and participating, and I'm even happier that you want to take initiative to help me provide this sort of higher quality discussion content (really. I need help). Please don't take my comment as anything other than a small note about rhetoric/persuasion.

                1 vote
                1. [2]
                  Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
                  FYI: Zeerph isn't me. Don't hold them responsible for my "be the change you want to see" comment.

                  FYI: Zeerph isn't me. Don't hold them responsible for my "be the change you want to see" comment.

                  3 votes
                  1. BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
                    Oh absolutely. I'm holding them responsible for saying a very similar thing as their comment, which inspired them to comment on my feedback to you. I see it as hitting two birds with one stone. ;)

                    Oh absolutely. I'm holding them responsible for saying a very similar thing as their comment, which inspired them to comment on my feedback to you. I see it as hitting two birds with one stone. ;)

                    2 votes
                2. Zeerph Link Parent
                  Fair enough, I was looking at it from my point of view, in that I'm typically not active in most forums, and would appreciate the push to contribute from time to time. Anyway, I didn't take it as...

                  Fair enough, I was looking at it from my point of view, in that I'm typically not active in most forums, and would appreciate the push to contribute from time to time.

                  Anyway, I didn't take it as anything other than a reminder that we need to also think about how we can interact with the site in addition to how we interact with its users. Even if my tone didn't necessarily portray that, I did appreciate your comment(s).

                  1 vote
    2. Zeerph Link Parent
      Hi there! I would like to invite you to post some interesting discussions on ~talk. I feel the same way, that there is no interesting discussions to be had, so I created one and have plans to...

      Hi there! I would like to invite you to post some interesting discussions on ~talk.
      I feel the same way, that there is no interesting discussions to be had, so I created one and have plans to create several more. It all starts with one person.

      3 votes
  18. Water Link
    I think quality will always be a challenge especially as the site grows. In the future, I can see where people might have not bothered to read through the entire thread before commenting just due...

    I think quality will always be a challenge especially as the site grows. In the future, I can see where people might have not bothered to read through the entire thread before commenting just due to the sheer number of people who have commented previously. I've felt that siren's call myself. I don't know if there's a balance to having people be heard vs possibly having replies that tackle the same idea crop up multiple times.

    5 votes
  19. [6]
    niktereuto Link
    In my opinion, we should be able to tag submissions just like we can tag comments. I also think the addition of a "fluff" tag would be helpful as well.

    In my opinion, we should be able to tag submissions just like we can tag comments.

    I also think the addition of a "fluff" tag would be helpful as well.

    4 votes
    1. [5]
      glass_table_girl Link Parent
      Do you mean that readers tag submissions or posters? Because I believe posters can already tag, which means that this would be more about getting more people to buy into using those tags to self-sort.

      Do you mean that readers tag submissions or posters? Because I believe posters can already tag, which means that this would be more about getting more people to buy into using those tags to self-sort.

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        niktereuto Link Parent
        Readers. For instance, someone may post "what color is your phone?" in ~talk. The poster would tag it as "phone", "color", etc Readers could tag it as "fluff", just as they could tag a comment.

        Readers.

        For instance, someone may post "what color is your phone?" in ~talk.

        The poster would tag it as "phone", "color", etc

        Readers could tag it as "fluff", just as they could tag a comment.

        6 votes
        1. [3]
          glass_table_girl Link Parent
          Gotcha. Yeah, I think that could work. Just would need a limit on how many tags to add?

          Gotcha. Yeah, I think that could work. Just would need a limit on how many tags to add?

          4 votes
          1. [2]
            niktereuto Link Parent
            Just like with comments, one tag per user. So let's say 50 users tagged the submission "what color is your phone?". Just like with comments, you might see: Fluff x45 Off-Topic x3 Spam x2 Right...

            Just like with comments, one tag per user.

            So let's say 50 users tagged the submission "what color is your phone?".

            Just like with comments, you might see:

            Fluff x45
            Off-Topic x3
            Spam x2

            Right next to, or underneath, the submission title.

            These tags are seperate from submission tags that we have now. These will be what the readers think of the submission.

            4 votes
            1. glass_table_girl Link Parent
              Ahhh, yes, that makes sense. I was misunderstanding and conflating it with the self-submitted tags, and this makes sense to me.

              Ahhh, yes, that makes sense. I was misunderstanding and conflating it with the self-submitted tags, and this makes sense to me.

              3 votes
  20. aki Link
    I personally do enjoy the kind of survey styles posts - though I think the problem is when they become far too prominent, as you mentioned. I think that the most affecting part of this problem is...

    I personally do enjoy the kind of survey styles posts - though I think the problem is when they become far too prominent, as you mentioned. I think that the most affecting part of this problem is that these threads keep getting bumped back to the top. So the more comments get posted to the thead the more it stays as the most visible type of content on the site, thus establishing as a norm for potential thread posters. Solving this problem should lower the frequency and the prevalence of this kind of thread in the future.

    4 votes
  21. [3]
    hifumi Link
    Hey, have you thought about making the default comment sort something other than just "most votes"? This isn't a really big problem for me, but it's a little annoying seeing the top comments stay...

    Hey, have you thought about making the default comment sort something other than just "most votes"? This isn't a really big problem for me, but it's a little annoying seeing the top comments stay at the top most of the time and get the most votes and activity and take up so much space. I guess what I'd really want personally is a feature that auto collapses 2nd or 3rd level comments, but still, is the current default comments sorting algorithm ok in the long term?

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      Deimos Link Parent
      Yeah, I'm sure we can probably do better eventually. I'm not sure exactly how, but we can probably take some other factors into account for comment ranking.

      Yeah, I'm sure we can probably do better eventually. I'm not sure exactly how, but we can probably take some other factors into account for comment ranking.

      4 votes
  22. [4]
    iiv Link
    What do people think about this post I made a couple of days ago? I feel a bit guilty because it is a "what is your favourite" post, but I explicitly tried to encourage discussion by including...

    What do people think about this post I made a couple of days ago? I feel a bit guilty because it is a "what is your favourite" post, but I explicitly tried to encourage discussion by including "and why" in the title.

    What is the consensus on that kind of post?

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      gksu Link Parent
      To begin, I'm an avid reader but I just skimmed your thread. I honestly think that rides the line of fluff, perhaps only not going over because I adore literature so much. The issue I think you...

      To begin, I'm an avid reader but I just skimmed your thread. I honestly think that rides the line of fluff, perhaps only not going over because I adore literature so much. The issue I think you have there is your subject is so broad. There's so much that falls under that umbrella that it ends up stifling discussion. It would be like asking everyone's favorite color or favorite shirt. You'd get a few simple responses, and a lot more ignoring your thread. You might find a couple deep comments, but they'd be the rarity.

      You'd be better off getting more specific. For instance, "Science fiction readers: What is your favorite sub-genre and what is a work that typifies why you feel that way?" is curtailed enough while still allowing plenty of room for the topic to spread. Another might be, "What philosophy book written in the last 10 years has the highest chance to heavily impact the future?" Again, narrow opening to a discussion that can broaden out. Basically, you're looking for a question that encourages ancillary discussion and exposition. You want to foment a healthy discourse by asking an open-ended question you couldn't possibly answer easily.

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        iiv Link Parent
        Thanks for your comprehensive answer. I agree with you, and I'll try to create more curtailed threads in the future. And I did notice the thread wasn't generating a lot of discussion, mostly...

        Thanks for your comprehensive answer. I agree with you, and I'll try to create more curtailed threads in the future.

        And I did notice the thread wasn't generating a lot of discussion, mostly single answers.

        6 votes
  23. TonyQuark (edited ) Link
    Very nice initiative :) It wasn't clear to me how to vote on this post until I clicked the number of votes. That's different from voting on a comment. Maybe that could be clearer in the design?...

    Very nice initiative :)

    It wasn't clear to me how to vote on this post until I clicked the number of votes. That's different from voting on a comment. Maybe that could be clearer in the design?

    Like I've said elsewhere here, having sub-groups within groups is a very smart move that hearkens back to the days of newsgroups it seems! I think you have made a number of decisions that gives Tildes its own valid reasons for being, unlike other websites that try to be Reddit clones.

    I'm going to explore a bit further. I'm liking it so far!

    Edit: I do wonder how you're going to mod all those comment tags, lol.

    3 votes
  24. [3]
    Petril Link
    If it's a problem, we can delete the "Where are you from?" post, since that's probably contributing to the clogged-ness. I often feel bad when I want to reply to someone, but that bumps it up to...

    If it's a problem, we can delete the "Where are you from?" post, since that's probably contributing to the clogged-ness. I often feel bad when I want to reply to someone, but that bumps it up to the top again.

    3 votes
    1. Deimos Link Parent
      No, please don't feel like you need to do that. We just need better controls so that people can choose to get rid of posts they're not interested in. Tag filtering in general, better ability to...

      No, please don't feel like you need to do that. We just need better controls so that people can choose to get rid of posts they're not interested in. Tag filtering in general, better ability to set/save sorting options (so they can set their default to things like "activity, last 24 hours" which wouldn't show it) and probably also just some form of filtering out specific posts as well.

      7 votes
    2. pseudolobster Link Parent
      Might also be an idea to implement a "don't bump" or "sage" button to comments.

      Might also be an idea to implement a "don't bump" or "sage" button to comments.

      6 votes
  25. [3]
    jackson Link
    I'd like to see some sort of autocomplete feature for tags-- if we're implementing tag filtering, what happens when someone accidentally tags their post with desktop computer instead of desktop...

    I'd like to see some sort of autocomplete feature for tags-- if we're implementing tag filtering, what happens when someone accidentally tags their post with desktop computer instead of desktop machine? Sure, new tags can be used if wanted/needed at will, but there should be some sort of autocomplete that suggests tags that are already in use as they're being typed.

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      tan Link Parent
      To take this a step further, I think Stack Overflow's post-creation flow is really good at this kind of thing. It searches for similar posts in the past and (I think?) suggests tags. It's a really...

      To take this a step further, I think Stack Overflow's post-creation flow is really good at this kind of thing. It searches for similar posts in the past and (I think?) suggests tags. It's a really good example of making it really easy for the user to do the right thing.

      5 votes
      1. crius Link Parent
        Yes, that's one feature that could be easily implemented fast while a search is also being written. The logic is the same.

        Yes, that's one feature that could be easily implemented fast while a search is also being written.

        The logic is the same.

        1 vote
  26. DrFaceless Link
    It seems (I have no data to back this up) that the quality here was better when there were <1400ish people here.

    It seems (I have no data to back this up) that the quality here was better when there were <1400ish people here.

    2 votes
  27. [5]
    roadrunner Link
    I started a couple of threads that I’m concerned may fall under the low-quality content bar, at least as I read it from this post. Desert Island Beer - I like beer and I like to try beer that...

    I started a couple of threads that I’m concerned may fall under the low-quality content bar, at least as I read it from this post.

    1. Desert Island Beer - I like beer and I like to try beer that other beer drinkers like. The desert island game felt like a good way to rope folks into my plot to find new beer.
    2. Musicians, what do you play / what do you do? - I really want to identify the musicians of tildes -who want to be identified- so we can discuss being creative or discuss the business or whatever. Posting that thread under that title seemed like a great way to start that process.

    Clearly these have lots of value to me, but would these be considered low quality?

    2 votes
    1. [2]
      BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
      You mean the Dessert Island Beer thread, I imagine. I was thinking of lambic beers the entire time. Anyway, I don't think it's anything to be that worried about. The structure of the place...

      You mean the Dessert Island Beer thread, I imagine. I was thinking of lambic beers the entire time.

      Anyway, I don't think it's anything to be that worried about. The structure of the place encourages this type of feeling-out content. It's "our" bad. We shouldn't be blaming individuals for taking part in what the structure's encouraging.

      Edit: to answer your question more directly, they are survey question styled threads. They are fine and have their place in any community trying to build connections between its members. The problem isn't the threads, but the sheer number of them. It's the number that is suggesting there is something about the structure of this place that is encouraging them, not the threads themselves.

      4 votes
      1. roadrunner Link Parent
        I appreciate you guys addressing this from many angles. It’d be hard to support any claim of tildes being a myopic community. I see what you’re saying about looking at things under the lens of...

        I appreciate you guys addressing this from many angles. It’d be hard to support any claim of tildes being a myopic community.

        It's the number that is suggesting there is something about the structure of this place that is encouraging them, not the threads themselves.

        I see what you’re saying about looking at things under the lens of structure. That clears things up for me.

        You mean the Dessert Island Beer thread, I imagine. I was thinking of lambic beers the entire time.

        Yes. I had hoped to stealthily sneak out the extra s. Caught me. Red-handed.

        1 vote
    2. Deimos Link Parent
      Those are totally fine (especially since at least one of them is in ~talk). Like I said, I don't want to say "we shouldn't have this type of thread" or anything like that, I think they were just...

      Those are totally fine (especially since at least one of them is in ~talk). Like I said, I don't want to say "we shouldn't have this type of thread" or anything like that, I think they were just becoming a bit too prominent due to a few different factors, and I'm working on updates to help with that.

      4 votes
    3. jeff Link Parent
      I think it's hopeless to try and define what a "quality" TOPIC for discussion is. I think what we should strive for is quality DISCUSSION on whatever topics are posted.

      I think it's hopeless to try and define what a "quality" TOPIC for discussion is. I think what we should strive for is quality DISCUSSION on whatever topics are posted.

  28. [5]
    starchturrets Link
    I think that making a “low effort”, “shitpost,” or “fluff” tag would go a long way. So long as there’s filtering, and users religiously enforce tagging, that should take care of things.

    I think that making a “low effort”, “shitpost,” or “fluff” tag would go a long way. So long as there’s filtering, and users religiously enforce tagging, that should take care of things.

    1 vote
    1. [4]
      NamelessThirteenth Link Parent
      I feel like that would just essentially become the downvote here. Someone sees a post like "Apples are better than Oranges" And that someone loves Oranges but hates Apples will get upset and tag...

      I feel like that would just essentially become the downvote here. Someone sees a post like
      "Apples are better than Oranges"
      And that someone loves Oranges but hates Apples will get upset and tag it as "Low Effort".

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        starchturrets Link Parent
        How about doing things backwards? Have an “Original Content” or “Serious Discussion” tag for non-fluff stuff, and remove it for more casual stuff.

        How about doing things backwards? Have an “Original Content” or “Serious Discussion” tag for non-fluff stuff, and remove it for more casual stuff.

        4 votes
        1. SaucedButLeaking Link Parent
          I dunno, it seems like subtractive tagging might have the same issue with orange-lovers piling on to remove "Serious discussion" from the "apples are better than oranges" topic

          I dunno, it seems like subtractive tagging might have the same issue with orange-lovers piling on to remove "Serious discussion" from the "apples are better than oranges" topic

          5 votes
      2. crius Link Parent
        Not if tags becomes crowd sourced so that they requires enough user to choose that tag before becoming visible.

        Not if tags becomes crowd sourced so that they requires enough user to choose that tag before becoming visible.

  29. rib Link
    As a side suggestion, the ability to filter out posts I've already viewed saves a lot of time. As with the RES filter functions.

    As a side suggestion, the ability to filter out posts I've already viewed saves a lot of time. As with the RES filter functions.

    1 vote