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What is a business/org that is great and ethical in so many aspects that everyone should consider using?
Inspired by https://tildes.net/~life/1q0v/what_is_a_business_org_thats_so_terrible_no_one_should_use_if_possible
If you're finding it hard to come up with something, remember that medium, small, and local businesses do exist ;)
Also, good deeds are not enough; their product must be awesome too!
If at all possible, let's keep this positive!
I'm a little less than 100% on this one, but Costco Wholesale is about as benign as capitalism can be. They set firm ethical standards, including:
The membership model can be economically exclusive (average household income of members is >$100k) and encourages overconsumption through bulk-only purchases. A lot of floor space is given over to luxury goods (cosmetics, liquor, jewelry, electronics, seasonal decorations, etc.).
Nonetheless, I don't feel horrible about patronizing the local Costco. I see the same people (mostly genuinely smiling) at the registers and service desks week after week, we can get our household necessities and the occasional splurge at a reasonable, consistent price, and the semi-annual tire swaps alone pay for the membership fee.
There are a lot of very local businesses I'd like to call out as well - our local food co-op, Oryana; the winery my spouse works at (part of a network of growers and winemakers expanding regenerative, biodynamic farming); the Groundwork Collective; and others.
I like Costco too but I have some mild criticisms to add to the few you mentioned:
Costco emphasizes a no-frills "warehouse" experience - you're getting what you pay for there.
Agreed about the quality of their clothing in general, not just the Kirkland label - women's clothing in particular has noticeably declined.
I think in-store promotions (free tastings) are subsidized by the manufacturers. Yes, there are some not-very-healthy junk foods being promoted. It's not quite as bad as the generic grocery stores where they funnel you past all the junk food before you get to the produce, dairy, and other primary grocery items. But Costco also does tastings of cheeses, prepared pasta, sauces, and other food products that are what they say they are.
I think the produce complaint depends on your local store; I've never had this problem.
Produce quality seems fine at mine, though I've not found the blueberries to taste great personally, which is a weirdly specific complaint. But I don't buy much produce there with just two of us at home. Better to buy that at Aldi and the shelf stable/household items at Costco.
Another two-person household, but we tend to batch-cook on weekends, freeze extras, and swap things around on subsequent weeks. If we plan correctly, we can go through a Costco-sized container of green beans, mushrooms, salad greens, tomatoes, etc. without any struggle.
For sure, unfortunately that strategy doesn't work as well for us. But we do make use of some produce items like that occasionally.
If you can ever pull it off, Costco on a Tuesday afternoon is a place of tranquility. No one is there. I always go in the week before 4pm, it's a very different experience.
I think that's because it's the food they cycle through the most. Usually if you're getting a sample it's because it's something they are trying out. The stables - cheese, beans, grains, oils - don't need the same help.
As a recent note, if you have the "premium" membership, there is now a starting hour at 9AM TO 10AM that is that tier only. It's just as glorious for any quick in-out shopping missions.
Tbf it's only really useful for people that actually own a business IMO who can do their shopping then. I'm not even counting the fact that my nearest one is an hour away. You only get a half hour on Saturdays.
However I don't find the experience so overwhelming (noise blocking earbuds do make it even better) as long as I get there in the AM.
The premium membership or the hours?
I have the premium membership with the credit card and I've made 600 dollars this year with it. I do use it as my primary card and I'm not a business owner but I've yet to "pay" for my membership since I got it. They'll also refund the difference if you don't earn enough money thru the card too, but I was on my way to making enough even without the credit card or at least make it quite cheaper the the standard (without the refunded difference). Costco is my primary store.
Overall with an hour drive like that yeah sounds like Costco doesn't do it for you. For me, it's a 10 minute drive.
The hours don't do anything for me. Unless you work from home or own a business and can shop for it whenever you want they're not useful for the grocery time
The premium membership pays for the premium upgrade for me, not the whole membership. It's still worth it but I do not have (nor want) a credit card for my groceries. I'd have to spend a lot more there to earn ten times the amount back a year that I do now
You have a vastly different experience from me. There is literally not a moment in time where I could simply walk a cart through the clothing section in a straight line or where checkout doesn’t take an extra 10 minutes because every lane is jammed full of people.
To be fair, I have my regular stuff and I get in and get out. I also don't take my cart into the middle sections, I leave it on the edge and just walk in myself. The outer aisles, where most of the large things I want like flour bags are, never seem to get that busy. When I do that it's a lovely trip!
Man earlier draft of my comment described not being able to look down any given isle without being able to see someone in it. It’s not really 100% accurate but it’s the vibes I get. I don’t go on weekends because it gets more packed than a festival, but even during the middle of the day on a weekday, it’s still so overstimulating to a completely neurotypical me that I have to bring my noise canceling earphones and listen to music. Even when I do just buy the two things I regularly get there, I leave frustrated and angry at dealing with the crowds.
If you don’t have to deal with that I’m happy for you. But it’s not the world I live in.
I think that's an accurate description for my location too. It's interesting because for me the thing that drives anxiety at stores is the over supply of options - like 10 kinds of brown sugar - vs Costco which has one massive bag. I've never had to sit and think of why I enjoy my trips to Costco so much more, but I think that's it. So even if I run into more people I still spend less time in the store.
At peak hour or on the weekends though, I'm with you. I don't leave anywhere more flustered than Costco on a Saturday afternoon.
I almost did Costco as a second one after Bronner's. I am a Kirkland boy through and through. I cannot say enough good about Costco, their labor compensation, their quality/affordable products, and the overall experience. I love it.
The only thing that kept me from doing it was their anti-union efforts in the last few years. Otherwise, gold star in my book!
Costco seems alright as big businesses go, but I cannot shop there because they have inexplicably decided to only take Visa cards and I don't have any of those. (Yes, I could go to an ATM first and pay in cash, but that is too much friction for my taste.)
I assume there are entirely sensical reasons for this, but I choose to believe the MasterCard and Costco CEOs are lifelong archrivals.
They do accept all debit cards so you don't need to get cash. But yeah IIRC they only take Visa in the US and I think it's only Mastercard in Canada except they'll take the Costco credit card I think regardless of which country.
It's all just bargaining for a better rate via exclusivity. (Same with the recent pivot to Coke products in the cafe from Pepsi ones near me.)
Back in the day Costco used to only take American Express, when did they change sides?
Back in 2016
┐( ˘_˘)┌
No idea
I am a relatively recent member.
Only a few years back.
That's more sensical than my version, but... ugh, I hate it, in a way I don't hate "we don't take credit cards at all". It feels some sort of anticompetitive-adjacent.
I think it's the Visa MasterCard duopoly that's the issue here personally. I dont put my groceries on credit nor buy big ticket items there so it's not really an issue for me
Oooh, coming in hot with Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap! While they have a weird, religious background, it's hard to argue with the amazing company culture and attempts to work ethically in an unethical system. For labor, they cap executive pay at 5 times the lowest vested employee, they provide funding for childcare and company match retirement program. They work with suppliers to get more ethically produced good and support recycling and argoecology efforts. And all their soaps are biodegradable. Plus their products are awesome. Definitely my number 1!
While those are great business practices so supporting them is generally good. I would suggest people avoid using alkaline derived soaps on their body as it's worse for the skin. A 'beauty bar' is generally a better option. They also sell fluoride-free toothpaste which is bunk and appeals to conspiracy theorists. So generally good, but keep that in mind.
That's fair. They are targeting a hippy-esque crowd so I can see that. I don't mind if they are filling the niche if they aren't actively spreading misinformation.
Nano-hydroxyapatite (NHAP) is a suitable fluoride alternative, but their toothpaste doesn't appear to have that either
I use Bronners for almost everything in my house (not hand soap yet). But I’m responding to your comment to let you know that now I have a new fear (?): soap can not be biodegradable?!?!
I use Dr Bronner's in a foaming dispenser (specifically the one from Eco Geek because I believe their claim that it is intended to actually last for multiple refills) for hand soap and I'm very happy with that setup. You do need to dilute it some, maybe 2:1? I forget, but it says on the bottle!
I just started buying their soap bars on a whim as I wanted something that felt less "greasy" than olay, dove, etc. and something that smelled and felt a bit better. I've been loving theirs and now I'm glad to know that they're ethical, too!
How is their deodorant? I need to suggest a new kind for someone with sensory issues, expensive ok
Unfortunately I've never tried it, but if you do please report back!
Companies that have transitioned to employee ownership and other alternative models rather than sell out to wallstreet or conglomerates deserve a shoutout. It's a great anti-enshittification strategy that often leads to more ethical business practices.
Two great examples of large companies like this are Bob's Red Mill and Patagonia.
Here's to this trend growing!
King Arthur Baking is another great employee-owned company which emphasizes sustainable farming and ethical sourcing. Their recipes, products, and instructional materials are incredibly helpful for home bakers. Their flours do exactly what they're labeled for - cake flour with the right gluten percentage for delicate cakes, bread flour that makes fantastic bread, etc.
Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard is a great memoir and story of Patagonia by its founder. As early as 1984, the company HQ provided on site child care and a cafeteria serving healthy food to employees.
Patagonia is also the first company to commit to 1% For the Planet (also founded by Chouinard).
From 2022 onward Patagonia has been a trust, all of whose profits are dedicated to addressing climate change.
Source: Wikipedia
I like Patagonia a lot, and own lots of their cloths, but I do want to give a quick peek under the hood of the brand. My wife worked in their European headquarters when we lived in Amsterdam and the culture there was very different. They didn't get the same compensation, childcare, flexibility, or mobility benefits as their US based counterparts. It felt much more like a traditional "corporation" outside of the people who worked their who, for the most part, were freaking awesome. It was odd to see that the messaging preached by Patagonia stopped at our boarders.
To compound that, my wife was going to take a job with them in the US that was hired as remote. She ended up getting a weird feeling from the team and ended up not taking the position. 2 weeks later it was announced that all employees, including those hired as fully remote, would have to relocated to a central office or quit. That also didn't sit well.
The last part is that a lot of the gear they do sell is intended for a single season of use. The Torrenshell jacket is a great example, if you call customer service they will tell you the planned lifespan of the jacket is a year. Also anything with a liner won't be repaired.
Buuuuut, all of that said. I love the fact that they have an ironclad guarantee - almost all my patagonia gear has gone back for repair once or twice at no cost to me. They do have some exceptional labor practices in the the US. And they invest funding towards really interesting beneficial things, like their long root lager or in the wool/rubber wetsuits. So definitely deserves to make the list, but just know the other parts as well!
Duralex, a french glassware company, was afaik saved from bankruptcy and bought by their employees. Could make a great addition to this threads' list.
Waitrose (supermarket) and John Lewis (department store) are examples of this in the UK.
They're the same company under John Lewis Partnership PLC ;)
For another example though, Richer Sounds moved to this model a few years back. Even before then though, they had a great reputation for actually helpful staff.
There are so many! The people seem happy working/volunteering there, they're paid/treated well, the animals (if any) are healthy and treated with love and dignity. The litmus test is when there are problems, the staff are empowered to be able to provide actual help. Sometimes the prices aren't bad either.
Local:
Local, independently owned greats near me: Book Store - little old Catholic ladies' thrift - hunting store - farmers - music store - mechanic - pawn store - pharmacy etc. (hint on how to find: ask local area volunteers; giving people run giving businesses)Your local area animal rescue societies like VOKRA -- nobody mops animal diarrhea and flea bathes for fun. Ask them who donates their vet care if you need a new vet.
Peace By Chocolate : a Syrian family home was bombed, they came to Canada, and are now selling chocolates and being good employers + community members + donate 3-5% profits for peace initiatives.
Dropout.tv - their whole reputation is treating people well, including paying people for their audition time, and letting talent have final say on if something should be in the cut of the show/episode. Letting people shine instead of pitting them against each other type of media.
Dropout makes sense. Sam's dad is Robert Reich, former secretary of labor who was promptly replaced after a speech in 1994 about growing wealth inequality creating a two-tier society.
He puts out videos like this. Pretty sure Sam would get disowned for treating workers like crap.
Former Sec Robert was in a recent episode :) I won't spoil which, but it seems like Sam really looks up to his dad and hold his values in esteem :)
There's a few of them sprinkled throughout.
At least he was wearing clothes in the most recent appearance (◠‿◕)
Bummer. :P
Sam's dad is Robert Reich?!?!?!
Here's where he helps roast his son
(Breaking News/No Laugh Newsroom/whatever they have to call it on YouTube)
Libro.fm is a digital audiobook store. They:
I really want to like libro.fm, and love the idea of supporting local book stores, but the quality of their products they provide is sub-par.
There is a file format for audiobooks. It is m4b. It supports a variety of audio codecs, chapters, cover artwork, saved places, etc. There is zero reason to use another file formats for audiobooks. I will freely admit I am a bit of a zealot when it comes to this, but I see no reason to deal with other formats when m4b is so comprehensive and versatile. Using other formats is, in my opinion, like insisting on using an old 480i television instead of a modern 4k TV.
Many of the books sold by libro are only available as mp3 files. I don’t mind that mp3 is an option, I mind that it is sometimes the only option. To their credit, if you request an m4b from support, they will have someone generate it for you in a few days, but that should not be necessary. And the last time I requested it (for An Unwelcome Quest), the resulting m4b file had chapters named “File 003.mp3” or something like that. That is not a good customer experience. Would you buy a book if it was missing chapter markers? And if you requested chapter markers, someone would pencil them onto the pages? Personally, I feel that is an unfinished and poor quality product.
Because of this reason, I still support Amazon through Audible. I wish I didn’t have to, but Audible provides a better product (once you strip the drm, which is quite simple to do) for cheaper. I would be happy to pay more, but I don’t want to have to fix the terrible files they offer to download. I have never seen an audible file with missing chapter markers or missing cover art.
I last used libro in 2022, so if this problem has improved, please let me know so I can reevaluate it.
I suspect Libro (which is like a 15-person company) is constrained significantly by the formats and metadata provided to them by publishers. Book publishers (all publishers, this was absolutely true for music too when I worked in music streaming) have ABYSMAL metadata practices. Amazon can (and does) hire teams of people whose sole job is to clean metadata, so that you get proper chapter titles in your m4bs. There's absolutely no way that Libro could do that.
I have noticed that almost all of the books I've purchased from them recently have had m4b files, but they were also mostly newer books. I think they probably default to providing mp3s only if that's all they get from the publisher.
Seconding Libro. I just buy the auditobooks outright, as I don't like subscription models, and I like knowing I get actual downloadable files. No bullshit encryption locking me to some service I don't want or need.
I get coffee every month from good.store (a project of Hank Green) because the coffee is good, the people are great and the money ends up going to a good cause.
We started using good.store's Eco Geek line for things in my house a few months ago. Quite happy with the products and I have no questions as to Hank Green's integrity.
All of the Eco Geek stuff I’ve tried is great. That includes the hand soap tablets, the dishwasher tablets, and the laundry detergent sheets. It’s great that the products aren’t shipped with a bunch of water. It’s so much easier to recycle a cardboard box that used to hold laundry detergent sheets than to get the remaining soap out of a detergent bottle.
I hadn't noticed somehow that they now offer the laundry detergent sheets, and I have to ask: do they perform to the same standard as detergent pods? I've been using various Free and Clear™ varieties for years, and the sheets are in fact cheaper for my usual usage and I'd rather support Hank's site. However, various online reviews occasionally mention needing to run extra loads to fully clean laundry (either due to spills or body odor) which has me wondering if it's worth trying, as both of these scenarios are common in my household and I've never had to double-wash before.
I’ve never had to double wash but I suppose my clothes aren’t ever particularly soiled.
I haven't used their specific brand but I do use laundry sheets that I'm pretty sure are actually made by the same people because they're pretty identical from what I've seen. They're so much nicer than anything else out there because you aren't dealing with measuring anything; you literally just toss them in. They're half a sheet per load and I have them pre-torn ahead of time. If they are heavily soiled you just toss in a second one.
I'm honestly kind of upset right now at Proctor and Gamble for their ads saying that other brands of liquid detergents are watered down, when the commercials are for liquid Tide! The stuff they are selling is watered down by definition! And the worst thing is that they are finally selling solid sheet - sorry, "tile" - laundry detergent, but I've literally never seen an advertisement or seen them at any store. Just word of mouth for them.
Question: has anyone here bought their socks, and if so, can you offer any input on the durability? I walk largely barefoot at home, and also tend to walk/run hard, and have worn many holes in my socks. So I'm always on the lookout for good, somewhat thick socks that also aren't too thick.
My girlfriend got AwesomeSocks through the year of 2023, so the oldest pair of socks should be 2 years and 8 months old, or something like that. I don't think she has had any holes yet, though I could be wrong. She certainly hasn't complained about low durability. I don't think she is as hard on her socks as you describe yourself to be.
The only minor complaint here: When they're in the washer, they seem to attract an unusual amount of our cat's hair.
Yeah, this has been my daily coffee for years now. It's fantastic, price is reasonable (very low compared to most other subscription services), you can always delay your order if needed and it's incredibly flexible. And that's just on the consumer side - knowing it actually results in fair pay for everyone involved AND supports charity instead of corporate profits... not going to find anything much better.
I got my dad, a recently-minted coffee enthusiast, a bag of Keats & Co. coffee for Christmas last year and he still says it's the best coffee he's ever had. +1 for good.store!
I won't name a specific one, because they are too regional for that, but I highly recommend credit unions. My family got tired of traditional banks trying to milk us for every dollar and selling our mortgage in an endless loop. We closed all of our accounts at traditional banks and moved to a credit union a few years ago and have had nothing but positive experiences.
Edit: As a side note my family has started trying to shift our business to Certified B Corps when possible.
Yes to credit unions!! :D my local uses voice and facial recognition lol I don't even need my bank card, kinda nice. My banking needs are very simple these days, but I would mortgage with a credit union as well.
My credit union was willing to put in writing that they would never sell our mortgage to another company. This was a big deal for us because we got tired of having to setup new payment processes and dealing with totally new fees every time it was sold.
wait, you're telling me when they buy/sell your mortgage debt there's new fee structures? that's WILD , how are people supposed to be able to budget? My mortgage is with one entity and they never did anything so I had no idea. Are there industry regulations on what kind of fees can be charged? that's crazy. Do the rates stay the same ?
There might be "processing fees" depending on payment type if I remember correctly. We'd also have to setup autopay again whenever the loan changed hands.
Here's one for gardeners - Southern Exposure Seed Exchange. It's a worker-owned cooperative which specializes in organic and heirloom seeds. They even get some of their seeds from two egalitarian communes (Twin Oaks and Acorn Community Farm) that still survive in the U.S. Acorn now owns the company. They've saved a number of traditional and historical seed varieties that would otherwise have been lost.
I had many successes with their seeds while living in Florida - disease-resistant, delicious tomato varieties, non-bolting herbs, a red okra that was productive, spineless, and tastier than any other. Though the inventory leans towards warmer climate crops, I still get quite a few annual seed varieties there. Germination rates are top-notch.
USAA has been an only-positive experience for me for the past 30 years, both in insurance and banking. Their call centers are in the US and they pay back a dividend to members.
I can mostly vouch for USAA, though they did give my sister's family some trouble when an underinsured driver crippled my inlaw, who is now finally on disability. Took more than 5 years to get resolved.
It finally did though, but those medical bills were getting pretty hefty. I will say USAA was still probably a cut above how the rest of the field would have managed it.
In terms of day to day banking and auto insurance stuff....like correcting my policy via online chat while I'm sitting in the DMV in less than 10 minutes, is unmatched.
For Canadians look for chocolate / cacao: Camino La Siembra chocolate is pretty legit in terms of being fair trade. They have eating bars and also cooking chips/powder. Plus it's delicious - it's been a pantry staple for many years.
Clothing-wise, KOTN is a certified B corp that puts care into the materials it sources and funding back into schools and fighting poverty where the cloths are manufactured (egypt). I've also been very happy with the quality.
Gelaskins - this is a bit niche, but for anyone who enjoys personalizing their electronics with art, I'll always plug this company. Of the many items I've purchased, I once had to make a return. I contacted them to ask if I could return it in person at their office to avoid shipping, and they arranged a time not only for the return but to give me a tour of their facility. It was a really nice gesture!
For now, I'll close it off with my local farmer's market. All the vendors are vetted as legit (as opposed to markets where more 'commercial' products are sold), there's live music, and it runs year round. It is pricier, but is a nice supplement to my main grocery purchases.
What-cha Tea store, a nice small British tea seller run by a man and his dad. They have good fair trade relationships with tea farmers all over.
https://what-cha.com/
I actually just ordered their taster set from here when you were making this comment after months of thinking about it (weird coincidence)
Patagonia is pretty good. Their lifetime warranty is very lenient. I once burnt a hole in my jacket, told them, and they repaired it professionally under warranty. They even covered shipping back and forth. Same for my rain pants that got caught and chewed in the bicycle chain. They also created a trust to buy back large swathes of actual Patagonia (land) and put profits into conservation projects.
I like Patagonia. People complain it's expensive and is for rich people. But $240 for a jacket that'll last decades is... actually a pretty deal?
Can't get high-quality, ethical clothing with good customer service and warranty for cheap.
This is the whole Sam Vimes theory of socioeconomic unfairness aka boots theory issue.
Unfortunately it isn't really solvable by telling people it's a good deal long term.
Yes it is expensive but the jacket I paid 350 CAD (if I remember correctly) is super warm and was repaired completely for free. I would have had to buy a spare one (or straw very least pay 50–100$ to get it fixed) if it wasn’t for their generous lifetime warranty.
Ditto my rain pants, they cost 90 CAD at the time but again with this damage I’d have to buy new ones if they hadn’t fixed it for free.
I insist that in these two instances the damage was absolutely outside of what you’d expect the warranty to cover. It was 100% accidental damage that wouldn’t have been covered under warranty by any other brand as it wasn’t a defect of the items.
So yes I paid more than a no name brand for these but I didn’t have to buy twice (so far) and I gave money to a company that treats its employees and suppliers well, and makes an effort towards conservationism.
Ah yes also the stuffing in my winter jacket is recycled, the feathers are from other garments.
When I lived in the US I was a big fan of Winco. Employee owned, and their store brand was always good quality and decently priced.
It was fantastic having them in the college town where I attended university, as they were open 24/7. Also loved having one nearby where we lived post graduation as I was able to either stop and get groceries on my way home without going out of my way or during covid/post kid I could get up early, do all of our family's shopping and be home and have everything put away before my wife and kid were up.
Never had the pleasure of shopping at a WinCo. In the same category, I'll caution against the "employee owned" Publix chain. Though employees hold shares, Publix employees have no input into the running of the company.
The billionaire Jenkins family heirs are majority shareholders. They and the corporation make odious political donations that are contributing to the awfulness of current politics.
I get my coffee from Dean's Beans, a fair trade employee-owned coop. They became employee-owned when the founder retired, which is pretty cool. They support growers around the world and help with their local projects.
I like Lee Valley, as a Canadian they've always had solid products and their employment practices seem ethical (top executive pay capped at 10x lowest employee pay).